For those who dont know he got it mixed up. The logitech g29 is a gear driven wheel. It ranks 1. Direct drive (G pro) 2. Belt driven (T300) 3. Gear driven (g29) with a few exceptions like hybrids.
The G pro is a dump and an overpriced hunk of garbage, trueforce is tacky and unrealistic and the Logitech high end ecosystem is non existent, get a fanatec DD or a moza/simagic, I owned a g pro for about a week before I turned it in.
You can get 90% of the way to the fastest lap times on any FFB wheel. The last 10% is where the gear starts to matter. I still drive on the G29. Been doing it for well over 4 years now and even though i only occasionally have tried some of my racing buddies DD wheels, each time i sit behind one, it takes no more than 3 laps to absolutely destroy my personal best times done on the G29. I talking dropping from mid 1.47s at Monza to mid 1.45s with the R8 GT3 Evo 2 in ACC. At Mount Panorama my personal best on the G29 is 2:00:200. Completely destroyed in the first flying lap with my buddy's Moza R16 to 1:58:122. But for me personally the difference is the biggest at the track i almost started hating for how slow i was compared to some other people - Spa. Was lapping consistent high 2:17 to low 2:18s on the G29, which dropped to 2:15:355 - over 3 seconds of improvement on a track famous with its technical corners. The combination of better feel through the wheel and the overall much better experience with the load cell pedal massively improves consistency. There are no moments when the wheel gets overwhelmed and starts clipping, missing vital traction information, leading to a slide or brake lock. Id say if you start with the G29 and get the bug, you should switch to DD wheel before you start hating the racing, because it's really frustrating when you know your limiting factor is the hardware.
@@ImLehwz It is, at least in my experience; I went for 8nm, PC version. If you're looking for Playstation compatibility, I'd think about going for the 15nm right away; as it's not that much of a price difference between 8nm PS compatible base, and 15nm (600$ vs 1000$). For PC, 8nm is 300$, so a massive difference in price - and I found 8nm to be more than enough strength for now. They say you start wanting more strength after a while, but haven't experienced that yet! Have in mind that the base is much better with lighter wheel rims like McLaren GT3 and WRC, compared to larger/heavier wheel rims. Pair the 8nm with these rims, and you shouldn't need more force; but if you're looking for heavy, 330mm wheel rims, maybe consider going for 12/15nm right away.
@@ImLehwz Depends on what kind of sim-racing you do. The more the aero matters like in Formula 1 or LMU, the more torque you want 18-21Nm is the way to go there. GT3 racing is kinda in between where 12Nm is the sweet spot, depending on the title you race in, you might even want 16Nm (ACC). For low aero (GT2, GT4, production vehicles) and low grip (drifting) you don't need that much and 8Nm is perfectly ok. It falls short for the other types of racing though. Also - Gran Turismo isn't exactly a simulator. It's falls slightly towards the more arcadey feel where Project Cars 2 was. Edit: Also i don't remember if it gets mentioned in the video, but with a more powerful wheel base, you can put a bigger rim, which instantly improves the entire feel of the system. Your wrist don't have to be that close to each other and it's a generally more comfortable feel over long racing sessions. If you go for a formula style wheel, it's really good for LMP, F1 and GT3 racing, but pretty much much worse for anything else.
@@EarthIsFlat456 I have a Simucube 2 Pro and before that I owned a Fanatec DD2. The Simucube is (except the SC2 Ultimate) the best wheelbase on the market. And Logitech is trash for Simracing, why is no pro (who isn't officially sponsored by Logitech) driving the G Pro? Ah, maybe because 11Nm isn't enough and the Simucube is miles better than this G29 brother. Look at the price for the G Pro set and what you can get from other companys. The G Pro will always be a bad product compared to others.
@@janthey There are plenty of people who can be really fast even with a G29 so if you need tons of torque to be fast then the issue isn't your gear it is your skill.
We had a G29 and moved to the G Pro wheel and pedals, no going back after driving with a DD wheel and load cell pedals. Massive difference. Pro wheel/pedals also the most fun.
I went from controller to desktop wheel and cheap pedals to a -- pretty nice setup with heusinkvelds, simicube 2 pro and triple wides - and a much more capable computer.. Definitely made me faster - but moreso because my practicing is able to yield more repeatable results given the accuracy of the inputs and feedback.
The G29 isn't belt driven its gear driven unless there was an update. B'se I had one and then moved tp T300 which is actually belt driven and it was a night and day upgrade with noticable improvements. Can't wait to move to DD tho that will be down the line when I upgrade from a kick stand style rig to a sim cockpit( could be built or foldable like those in your video).
I use ratchet straps on my play seat trophy to prevent the pedals from sliding away over time! Takes away from the aesthetics a bit but must needed IMO
Biggest difference I found going from a G920 to a 23nm DD was my ability to catch slides and mistakes. The immediacy and power of the DD makes it obvious what the car is doing and makes it a lot easier to feel the limit of grip. You can be just as fast with an elastic band wheel as you can with a high end DD. It will just take you unimaginably longer to find the ideal inputs with no feedback to go on.
Its very depends on what discipline you go through. Not all discipline need 23nm wheel. Even for drifting the most realistic power are between 10 to 12nm.
@@kotarojujo2737 I agree, my comment was less in relation to the power availability and more in relation to the fidelity, realism and detail of the feedback. 23nm of torque is 100% overkill and most of the time I only use between 10 and 18nm. I do have to say that the 2.3nm of my logitech wheel was not enough power for me personally. It was too easy to over grip the wheel and not feel any of the feedback. I needed something with more power to better feel what the car was doing and react to it. I think 10nm is enough to feel everything you need to. 15nm is enough to satisfy most peoples want for power. 20nm+ is only for the occasional fun of driving an old racecar and making you feel like you are really in the car out of just the sheer violence being experienced.
@@alecmillea4539 yeah i agree that cheaper wheel cant provide you fine details. So 9-12 nm should be sweet spot for the most while also give you fine details.
@@kotarojujo2737 ya 9-12nm DD is enough that you definitely do not NEED to upgrade. Upgrading to a higher power base will undoubtedly NOT make you faster. It's only for additional immersion and/or fun.
I also own a Playseat Trophy and had the same Problem that the bottom part moves away from the seat while Racing. I tried Fiber Grip and for me it solved the problem.
good advice is to establish a baseline budget you can live with and get that going all at once. avoid constantly upgrading/changing your setup - you'll be more busy adjusting to new things than improving your driving. it will also give you a consistent feel to begin with and your learning curve will be shortened, making you faster in the long run.
I think moza r5 or any dd wheel with 5nm power is bare minimum for the first timer. I mean you dont expect first timer to go straight jump to 20nm wheel.
The brakes. That's what matters most. I mean, direct drive wheels give more feedback, sure, but there's NOTHING holding back your racing than a lack of braking control
Yes (I think so) My experience: I play with a t150 (not the pro) in simulators like Live for Speed and AMS 1 Things you can buy that will make you better (if you are good) -The screen: I play with a small 3:4 and 60 Hz monitor and being small you can't take full advantage of the track since you can hardly see it -The steering wheel: having a steering wheel with low force feedback makes you not feel the limit of the car, which is equivalent to going at 100%, with more than 5nm of force you can already notice where the maximum grip is and find the limit of the car -The pedals: having cheap plastic and soft pedals means you can't be precise when braking or exiting corners, causing understeer and oversteer Yes, for me a more expensive one makes you better
i started with a G29 (not belt driven) and upgraded to a thrustmaster TGT2 (belt driven) just the other day, the difference between the two are absolutely amazing, i’ve found myself starting to try manual and getting to used to it quite fast, the force feedback on the thrustmaster is absolutely bob on, it’s much more immersive, i drive in VR also and have a trophy playseat, it definitely helps having good equipment, this weekend i raced about 1500 miles on GT7 😂💀
Same here mate. TGT2 is awesome, except the Noise it makes, its pretty annoying for me. As soon as i connect it the noisy Fans start blowing at highest RPM and keeps spinning all the Time. It sucks so hard that i had to start using Headphones. Now im looking into changing to the Logitech Pro Wheel but i absolutely hate that there is no decent Shifter from Logitech :( This fact is still keeping me away from changing. Is your TGT2 as noisy as mine ? Greetings !
@@-tom-tronic- how long have you owned yours for? mines is fine, i’ve only owned it for 4 days upto now 😂can hear it on when i fire up GT7, doesn’t disturb me gaming though :) proper made up with it though 💯💪
@@HardBishopI have it for about a Year now. As soon as i connect it to the Console the Fans fire up in my Wheel Base. Not sure if its suppose to be like that. Maybe i got a faulty Base. Its working alright tho. If at least the Fans would turn off sometimes but they are pretty much blasting all the Time at Max RPM. Thx for the Answer man !
I've been contemplating getting a wheel for a while, but I think I'll stick with a controller for the first couple of weeks/months playing GT7, then eventually get a G29 or something along the lines . I don't think I can ever justify buying a direct drive wheel though unless I was getting really competitive.
Then explain why every pro sim racer uses DD wheels and load cell brakes. Perhaps you just haven't reached your potential with a belt driven wheel yet.
@@ericscalenjoyment is relative. Someone who hasnt experienced DD will be 100% pleased with a belt or gear driven wheel. Its only when they watch videos saying how much better a DD is that they start to lose enjoyment. Ignorance is bliss, and in this case, its not a bad thing at all.
@@oliversperling1546DD definitely makes you faster, but only for the top 5% of sim racers. Maybe a couple of tenths, which is a lot when talking about pros, but negligible for 95% of people.
If you are slower with good gear compared to lower grade gear (G29 and gamepad) it means your skill and driving understanding up to pace to utilize the good gear. Basically We should start with a "cheap" wheel that is G29 or thrustmaster T300 and learn to drive a wheel. Both wheels will crap on lack of advanced FFB sensations that would indicate what's going on but these 2 wheels are cheap enough and defacto good enough to train you and teach you all the fundamentals of fast driving. Learning proper car racing, your ability to hold the car with the wheel, corrections etc etc... Then after a year or two when you feel you aren't improving anymore and you already are racing within a second or two per lap from fastest drivers in the world is the good indicator that you acquired everything you can using these wheels and is time to upgrade to something good and advanced like direct drive from logitech fanatec simucube (you name it) with a good load cell brake as then you already have the fundamentals of what it means to drive fast and what its like to drive fast with all the techniques becoming second nature... that you can extrapolate all that extra the good gear offers you like much better FFB, smooth response, good and pressure tech brakes etc... And best of all... If you are still there driving if not every day or every 2 - 3 days after a year or two with G29 or T300 it means you survived the hype and like to race so it is SAFE to invest into expensive gear that you will use instead of feeling remorse because you don't like to race and wasted all that money.
Level of gamer is always the best wheel. So many people with 5k rigs were soooo far behind some aliens drivong g29. But for average gamer a better wheel and most important (loadcell) will make you faster. Brakes are even as more important than wheel.
So I did some quick computations; assuming I copied all the numbers and orders correctly... All of your average times are statistically significant (based on 95% confidence intervals). So if an average time shown is the fastest, then it is the fastest (outside a < 5% chance of random chance that it isn't). The Pro wheel was the fastest 4 out of the 6 tracks, the G29 was fastest at one track (Mt. Panorama) while the Dual Sense was the fastest at one track (Red Bull Ring). What's also interesting, however, is the confounding factor you pointed out in your video; when the Pro wheel was used first (IE the order in which the various control types was used). I'm going to call them stints here (1st stint, 2nd stint, 3rd stint). You were never the fastest on your 1st stint, you were fastest on your 2nd stint 2 out of 6 times (Daytona and Trial Mountain), and you were the fastest on your 3rd stint 4 out of 6 times. The 2 with the 2nd stint being fastest was set using the Pro Wheel. You were slowest on your 1st stint on all tracks except one (Red Bull Ring) where you ran with the Pro wheel.
Thanks for sharing this! Ideally I would have created a larger data set by setting more laps on each tracks while alternating controllers a few times to offset the effect of extra practise/confidence. Always happy to take feedback on board for future videos 👌🏼
Wow, great review. If it can improve your speed over the g29, then for me, it might be worth upgrading at some point. Because on spa using my g29, my best speed is 2.17.753, and i would love to improve that, like you say, you can't always feel when you're losing the rear end off your car from a corner .
Haha now is probably a good time to say your mileage may vary, but I do think the load cell pedal is a big help when it comes to trail braking - something I always struggled with on the G29.
@JorgePowell yeah that trail breaking is what's missing on the g29. If you don't mind what's your gt7 name I'm just trying to add people who are good. My gt7 is Mimmzy_46 name.
You should've tried driving with the dualsense using the gyro steering as another option. That's how I play with GT7 and it's really great. The hapticks are good enough to give you details about how your car drives and behaves on different road surfaces with the benefit of steering the car like you would with real steering wheel.
Amazing video as always! You may or may not remember me from the livestream but I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed it and think you should stream more often.
A better wheel doesn't make you faster if you are already really skilled, it makes you more consistent. If you're not that quick like this guy then yeah you might see a big improvement
Yes, but only with the advantage of a few extra laps practise too! I think the outcome would have been the same regardless but I don’t think the delta would have been as large if I had given myself more time to produce a larger data set 👌🏼
On NASCAR oval racing i immediately had more speed and consistency using a 12nm La Prima instead of a 2nm T150. The way you can feel the track and your cars' limit such as being able to counter act an oversteer before it is too late felt a bit like cheating at first. On Road racing though I am just as slow as before.
The Logitech G920 is still the most popular racing wheel on Amazon because Amazon doesn't actually offer a wide range of Racing wheels and bases outside of the Chinese market.
I've always been playing with my controller.. All the way back to GT1! I've bought a G29 now, but even after some time I am much slower with the wheel than with the Dualsense.. Cannot get used to it :/ It kind of feels like the car is soft and uncontrollable, and I tend to lose control much faster.. Hard to explain, but I don't enjoy it as much as I had hoped :(
If you only want to get faster, invest in some good load cell pedal. But to enjoy your new load cell pedal, you need it to not move, so invest in a solid rig. Now, your wheel looks like a toy, so invest in a DD wheel. Now you are sitting too far away of your monitor, so invest in a bigger monitor. Enjoy your 2k debt.
there is a big difference, it does make you faster, gt7 isn't the best game to test it on and logitech doesn't make the best direct drive wheel. but, and the big big but, you don't need to spend the money to enjoy it. the cheapest stuff will allow you to have fun and enjoy it.
you could buy simagic, fanatec or moza gear, but you decided to buy logitech, its been like 2 years and they never released wheels or upgrades for their eco system.. you could buy better for the same price and cockpit
Gran Turismo isn't the best example for this comparison, the force feedback is quite limited and the physics are weird when it comes to grip levels. Os something like Assetto Corsa Competizione the difference would probably be even more noticeable.
I would love to get the Pro Wheel and change from my Thrustmaster TGT2, which is a very good Wheel btw. But my only BIG Problem is the Shifter. I love to drive manual shifted Cars in GT7 and the Thrustmaster Shifter is one of the best on the Market and it feels so Amazing. I dont understand Logitech, releasing the Pro Wheel and Pedals but no Pro Shifter ? Having to use this toyish little crappy feeling Logitech Shifter is absolutely awful and no Option for me :(
Thats why i also bought the TGT2 bcos of the shifter which i already owned. I have the cheapest pedals for 80$~, which actually is the most important thing if u wanna be fast. But still the lap i made recently on spa was 2m17.1s with BMW, or 1.58.7 on suzuka so the best way is to invest in some adapter box that could allow u to use fanatec pedals. U can significantly improve your driving experience
@@maveric19871 I have the TLCM Loadcell Pedals from Thrustmaster. They are very good. I modded them with washers and stiffer elastomers to my personal likings. I also have a Drive Hub Adapter already but i hate this Adapter Stuff. Sometimes works very good sometimes it takes time to get everything connected and working properly. 🤷🏻♂️ Greetz
Overall great quality of video, but such a misleading message.... There's no way the "Pro" wheel (or any kind of wheel for that matter) will make you 6 seconds quicker over a single lap. Had to stop the video after seeing Suzuka times... Skill and practice is what matters the most. Even using the controller you could get as fast or at least close to the most advanced wheel. I will agree that overall experience with the wheel will be much more realistic, but it won't make you A+ or A driver from a C or D driver
Finaly someone who saying the truth...am sry guys but yes better gear will made you faster, that doesnt make you win every race...but it will improve your time for sure...so if we take 2 "noobs" or average player to race, the one with better gear will get better time...in the end can you be competitive with G29, yes..., but its much harder....compare that with 2 mens going to run, one have boots other have sneakers, now who would win? it depend on runner?, yes, but which one is easier and comfortable?...same with wheel, i was Logitech (momo,G27,G923) user, and i know that wheel will give you a very low feel of whats going on with car, lot of oversteer, cose you simply dont feel where is limit of car and so on...everything this guy said is truth 100%
Great video overall, but speaking from a PH.D statistics & mathematics perspective, this is very misleading. While I get it for the sake of rounding, saying 1:31.2 vs 1:31.3 is a little misleading (we're actually seeing 1/5 of the difference you're claiming) especially when it's said with such confidence that there was an overall improvement and it highlights xyz when you say the pro wheel is "that" much better. In reality: The real difference between the 2 wheels is 0.00003, or 0.03% increase in time. Any basic high school statistics course would teach you that this 0.03% margin of error is far more explainable to a small, non-representative data set, than any conclusive evidence of anything. In fact, the pure placebo effect of you wanting to perform better on the pro wheel could likely account for this difference overall. I think with such an infinitesimal difference, a massive data-set 33 times magnitude would need to be achieved, e.g. we would need to see 150 runs done between the 2 before we can draw any realistic conclusion. Just speaking from a PH.D Mathematics perspective. That being said I'm sure with a proper data-set we would see the pro wheel likely perform better, but I'm just saying that you say with such confidence very misleading information given the infinitesimal difference observed, and it's misleading to "fudge" the numbers given a myriad of lurking variables could exist externally. When people talk about poloticians being misleading, it's these types of statements "I can feel the pro being much better" ... huh? a 0.03% increase that can be accounted for in every other which way? This just seems dishonest and I'm not sure why you wouldn't just say "with such an infinitesimal difference in time, no real conclusions can be drawn. Although I like the feel of the pro better" or something along those lines.
Long in the short of it imo... No. It doesn't make you faster. But it can make you more consistent (faster with practice) & happy if you can't get the feeling down or settings down on lower end gear to get that feeling one wants.
Is not about the fastest for me it's all about the immersion, I want to feel inside a cockpit of a race car , behind the wheel , very close to the ground , some people don't care about this , they only care about competition and to be fast at possible, we al different
the g29 is gear driven, not belt, the Logitech pro wheel and pedals, I understand that they work with Xbox, there are much much better options for that ungodly price tag
Que suerte poder disfrutar del volante. Compré el 27 de noviembre base, pedales y freno de mano, UPS decidió entregarlo en un pickup y nunca lo llevaron a mi casa. El pedido está devuelto y Logitech ya lo tiene en sus almacenes, a día de hoy Logitech todavía no me ha devuelto el dinero. Espero que os vaya bien todo porque ante un problema Logitech no parece una buena empresa.
Fair conclusion, but from my experience lobby's are super competitive and even a differenc eof 0.5 to 1.0 per lap means a 5-10 second lead for a 10 lap race. Sim racing is Pay to win
%70 practice %20 skill %10 gear Get a G29 / G920 folks, you'll beat any DD wheel user as long as YOU are better than them. Buy expensive wheels only for the quality of life and enjoyment it will bring you, not for an advantage in competitive racing.
I have been using th G29 for years and its just fine for most people. Lots of good racing and lots of fun for just around £200. I am a sometimes B license in GT7 and am 80 years old so the G29 wheel can't be all that bad?
The answer is always in real life experience Does hardware and setups matter in real racing? Yeah, they do. Put the top F1 driver in bottom of the barrel car, he will win zero races. Put the top Nascar driver in the worst car and pit crew, he's going to win zero races. So the same will be said in sim racing. If you're racing against the same level opponents, but they have better hardware and in race setups, they will beat you. Sim racing really ends up being pay to win (with some minor exceptions), just like real life racing
@@JorgePowell This is 2 moths ago now so I don't really remember what the video is about or what I meant by the comment. But I think I just meant in general people seem to just focus on what is the fastest when it comes to sim-racing
I built my own racing sim a few years ago and sold it to travel the world, i don't think I've ever had a more enjoyable hobby than my racing sim, easily worth the price (like 5-6k with the PC).. Just buy a 5k cheaper car.
I know you mean well, but this is false Don't make people think that money matters. I know you said otherwise, but there are the lap times. Any controller with enough axis can be a weapon in the right hands.
Your times are so inconsistent and so far from pace that I don't think you are the right person to be doing this experiment. You need to know how to drive to really take advantage of a direct drive wheel and loadcell pedals where you might be more than a second faster because of how you can read over and understeer and the speed at which you can correct an oversteery car and push it to the limit. Anyone reading this, direct drives and specially loadcell pedals or active pedals will make you faster as you can be much more precise and consistent with your inputs. But none of that matters if you don't know how to trail break or induce under or oversteer, so you are better off investing in driving lessons and you'll get faster times regardless of the hardware (which the guy in the video should)
Of course it is ok to buy expensive equipments. Why? Because if you are a trully pasionate of the game you will be more enthusiast to play with something well built and with more quality. It is so obvious that expensive things are more likley to give you a better experience. For one reason I can't understand the meaning of this videos and titles.
For those who dont know he got it mixed up. The logitech g29 is a gear driven wheel. It ranks 1. Direct drive (G pro) 2. Belt driven (T300) 3. Gear driven (g29) with a few exceptions like hybrids.
I also saw this at 0:49.
I was going to comment this
For those who not know, broken pedal can make you slower, not the steering wheel self
The G pro is a dump and an overpriced hunk of garbage, trueforce is tacky and unrealistic and the Logitech high end ecosystem is non existent, get a fanatec DD or a moza/simagic, I owned a g pro for about a week before I turned it in.
You can get 90% of the way to the fastest lap times on any FFB wheel. The last 10% is where the gear starts to matter. I still drive on the G29. Been doing it for well over 4 years now and even though i only occasionally have tried some of my racing buddies DD wheels, each time i sit behind one, it takes no more than 3 laps to absolutely destroy my personal best times done on the G29. I talking dropping from mid 1.47s at Monza to mid 1.45s with the R8 GT3 Evo 2 in ACC. At Mount Panorama my personal best on the G29 is 2:00:200. Completely destroyed in the first flying lap with my buddy's Moza R16 to 1:58:122. But for me personally the difference is the biggest at the track i almost started hating for how slow i was compared to some other people - Spa. Was lapping consistent high 2:17 to low 2:18s on the G29, which dropped to 2:15:355 - over 3 seconds of improvement on a track famous with its technical corners. The combination of better feel through the wheel and the overall much better experience with the load cell pedal massively improves consistency. There are no moments when the wheel gets overwhelmed and starts clipping, missing vital traction information, leading to a slide or brake lock. Id say if you start with the G29 and get the bug, you should switch to DD wheel before you start hating the racing, because it's really frustrating when you know your limiting factor is the hardware.
Do you think the fanatec 8nm torque is sufficient?
@@ImLehwz It is, at least in my experience; I went for 8nm, PC version. If you're looking for Playstation compatibility, I'd think about going for the 15nm right away; as it's not that much of a price difference between 8nm PS compatible base, and 15nm (600$ vs 1000$). For PC, 8nm is 300$, so a massive difference in price - and I found 8nm to be more than enough strength for now. They say you start wanting more strength after a while, but haven't experienced that yet! Have in mind that the base is much better with lighter wheel rims like McLaren GT3 and WRC, compared to larger/heavier wheel rims. Pair the 8nm with these rims, and you shouldn't need more force; but if you're looking for heavy, 330mm wheel rims, maybe consider going for 12/15nm right away.
@@ImLehwz Depends on what kind of sim-racing you do. The more the aero matters like in Formula 1 or LMU, the more torque you want 18-21Nm is the way to go there. GT3 racing is kinda in between where 12Nm is the sweet spot, depending on the title you race in, you might even want 16Nm (ACC). For low aero (GT2, GT4, production vehicles) and low grip (drifting) you don't need that much and 8Nm is perfectly ok. It falls short for the other types of racing though. Also - Gran Turismo isn't exactly a simulator. It's falls slightly towards the more arcadey feel where Project Cars 2 was.
Edit: Also i don't remember if it gets mentioned in the video, but with a more powerful wheel base, you can put a bigger rim, which instantly improves the entire feel of the system. Your wrist don't have to be that close to each other and it's a generally more comfortable feel over long racing sessions. If you go for a formula style wheel, it's really good for LMP, F1 and GT3 racing, but pretty much much worse for anything else.
I have the G29 but the brakes are bad, need i load cell brake
Well said
Better gear does not make you faster but it makes your hobby more enjoyable and therefore it makes you faster.
Of course it makes you faster. But he bought Logitech, so he just wasted his money.
@@janthey You obviously haven't even used the G Pro and are just speaking nonsense.
sooo it makes u faster?
@@EarthIsFlat456 I have a Simucube 2 Pro and before that I owned a Fanatec DD2. The Simucube is (except the SC2 Ultimate) the best wheelbase on the market. And Logitech is trash for Simracing, why is no pro (who isn't officially sponsored by Logitech) driving the G Pro? Ah, maybe because 11Nm isn't enough and the Simucube is miles better than this G29 brother. Look at the price for the G Pro set and what you can get from other companys. The G Pro will always be a bad product compared to others.
@@janthey There are plenty of people who can be really fast even with a G29 so if you need tons of torque to be fast then the issue isn't your gear it is your skill.
We had a G29 and moved to the G Pro wheel and pedals, no going back after driving with a DD wheel and load cell pedals. Massive difference. Pro wheel/pedals also the most fun.
I went from controller to desktop wheel and cheap pedals to a -- pretty nice setup with heusinkvelds, simicube 2 pro and triple wides - and a much more capable computer..
Definitely made me faster - but moreso because my practicing is able to yield more repeatable results given the accuracy of the inputs and feedback.
Now let's see if VR makes you faster 😉
with vr, i can judge distance a lot easier without thinking. not that I do much thinking as it is.
It absolutely 💯 does. You judge distance way easier. The upgrade to VR will make you way faster than a better wheel.
@@MrBuyerman and vr is probably cheaper.
I drive only VR Immersive but only make you faster the hours of parctice what you put in the game !!! No more !!!
No. I can't think of one good sim racer who competes using vr.
The G29 isn't belt driven its gear driven unless there was an update. B'se I had one and then moved tp T300 which is actually belt driven and it was a night and day upgrade with noticable improvements. Can't wait to move to DD tho that will be down the line when I upgrade from a kick stand style rig to a sim cockpit( could be built or foldable like those in your video).
Yep, you’re absolutely right - my mistake!
@@JorgePowellplease 🙏🙏🙏🥺 Ade me and brand watch 🙏🙏🙏🙏 please free money
I use ratchet straps on my play seat trophy to prevent the pedals from sliding away over time! Takes away from the aesthetics a bit but must needed IMO
I’ll have to check this out!
Ratchet straps?
playseat is a scam imo, I'm able to get an aluminium profile rig for like half the price
@@PeteLambert13 Thank you!
@@IgnitionP not everyone wants or can accomdate an aluminum profile rig. Playseat is not a scam
Correction at 0:48 . The Logitech G series of wheels with the exception of the G Pro wheel are all Gear driven and not Belt driven.
Biggest difference I found going from a G920 to a 23nm DD was my ability to catch slides and mistakes. The immediacy and power of the DD makes it obvious what the car is doing and makes it a lot easier to feel the limit of grip. You can be just as fast with an elastic band wheel as you can with a high end DD. It will just take you unimaginably longer to find the ideal inputs with no feedback to go on.
Its very depends on what discipline you go through. Not all discipline need 23nm wheel. Even for drifting the most realistic power are between 10 to 12nm.
@@kotarojujo2737 I agree, my comment was less in relation to the power availability and more in relation to the fidelity, realism and detail of the feedback. 23nm of torque is 100% overkill and most of the time I only use between 10 and 18nm. I do have to say that the 2.3nm of my logitech wheel was not enough power for me personally. It was too easy to over grip the wheel and not feel any of the feedback. I needed something with more power to better feel what the car was doing and react to it. I think 10nm is enough to feel everything you need to. 15nm is enough to satisfy most peoples want for power. 20nm+ is only for the occasional fun of driving an old racecar and making you feel like you are really in the car out of just the sheer violence being experienced.
@@alecmillea4539 yeah i agree that cheaper wheel cant provide you fine details. So 9-12 nm should be sweet spot for the most while also give you fine details.
@@kotarojujo2737 ya 9-12nm DD is enough that you definitely do not NEED to upgrade. Upgrading to a higher power base will undoubtedly NOT make you faster. It's only for additional immersion and/or fun.
This is the most professional video I've seen on the topic. You're a legend, keep it flat out.
Also the Pro Wheel/Pedals on ACC is god-tier.
He got the specs wrong on the g29, its not belt driven.
@@DylanTaylor-f6tit’s okay like it’s not the end of the world 🙄
I also own a Playseat Trophy and had the same Problem that the bottom part moves away from the seat while Racing. I tried Fiber Grip and for me it solved the problem.
Hi. Where did you get the Fiber Grips?
good advice is to establish a baseline budget you can live with and get that going all at once. avoid constantly upgrading/changing your setup - you'll be more busy adjusting to new things than improving your driving. it will also give you a consistent feel to begin with and your learning curve will be shortened, making you faster in the long run.
I think moza r5 or any dd wheel with 5nm power is bare minimum for the first timer. I mean you dont expect first timer to go straight jump to 20nm wheel.
The brakes. That's what matters most.
I mean, direct drive wheels give more feedback, sure, but there's NOTHING holding back your racing than a lack of braking control
True
Yes (I think so)
My experience:
I play with a t150 (not the pro) in simulators like Live for Speed and AMS 1
Things you can buy that will make you better (if you are good)
-The screen: I play with a small 3:4 and 60 Hz monitor and being small you can't take full advantage of the track since you can hardly see it
-The steering wheel: having a steering wheel with low force feedback makes you not feel the limit of the car, which is equivalent to going at 100%, with more than 5nm of force you can already notice where the maximum grip is and find the limit of the car
-The pedals: having cheap plastic and soft pedals means you can't be precise when braking or exiting corners, causing understeer and oversteer
Yes, for me a more expensive one makes you better
i started with a G29 (not belt driven) and upgraded to a thrustmaster TGT2 (belt driven) just the other day, the difference between the two are absolutely amazing, i’ve found myself starting to try manual and getting to used to it quite fast, the force feedback on the thrustmaster is absolutely bob on, it’s much more immersive, i drive in VR also and have a trophy playseat, it definitely helps having good equipment, this weekend i raced about 1500 miles on GT7 😂💀
Same here mate. TGT2 is awesome, except the Noise it makes, its pretty annoying for me. As soon as i connect it the noisy Fans start blowing at highest RPM and keeps spinning all the Time. It sucks so hard that i had to start using Headphones. Now im looking into changing to the Logitech Pro Wheel but i absolutely hate that there is no decent Shifter from Logitech :( This fact is still keeping me away from changing. Is your TGT2 as noisy as mine ? Greetings !
@@-tom-tronic- how long have you owned yours for? mines is fine, i’ve only owned it for 4 days upto now 😂can hear it on when i fire up GT7, doesn’t disturb me gaming though :) proper made up with it though 💯💪
@@HardBishopI have it for about a Year now. As soon as i connect it to the Console the Fans fire up in my Wheel Base. Not sure if its suppose to be like that. Maybe i got a faulty Base. Its working alright tho. If at least the Fans would turn off sometimes but they are pretty much blasting all the Time at Max RPM. Thx for the Answer man !
The question is not if it makes you faster, but it makes more fun. It’s all about immersion. Great Video, btw! Very well produced. 👍
faster IS more fun. :P
@@8triagrammerSo is immersion, which is the selling point of sim rigs in general. Controllers just make virtual driving easier.
I've been contemplating getting a wheel for a while, but I think I'll stick with a controller for the first couple of weeks/months playing GT7, then eventually get a G29 or something along the lines . I don't think I can ever justify buying a direct drive wheel though unless I was getting really competitive.
JORGE! This is one of the Best SIM Rig Comparisons videos EVER! And I've been into this for over 12 years. Only problem is I am with Team FANATEC!
Ive went down this rabbit hole for the last 6 years.....NO. practice makes you faster, not 3k worth the equipment. Your welcome
$3k worth of equipment makes those hours of practice more enjoyable.
Then explain why every pro sim racer uses DD wheels and load cell brakes. Perhaps you just haven't reached your potential with a belt driven wheel yet.
@@ericscalenjoyment is relative. Someone who hasnt experienced DD will be 100% pleased with a belt or gear driven wheel. Its only when they watch videos saying how much better a DD is that they start to lose enjoyment. Ignorance is bliss, and in this case, its not a bad thing at all.
@@oliversperling1546DD definitely makes you faster, but only for the top 5% of sim racers. Maybe a couple of tenths, which is a lot when talking about pros, but negligible for 95% of people.
If you are slower with good gear compared to lower grade gear (G29 and gamepad) it means your skill and driving understanding up to pace to utilize the good gear.
Basically We should start with a "cheap" wheel that is G29 or thrustmaster T300 and learn to drive a wheel. Both wheels will crap on lack of advanced FFB sensations that would indicate what's going on but these 2 wheels are cheap enough and defacto good enough to train you and teach you all the fundamentals of fast driving. Learning proper car racing, your ability to hold the car with the wheel, corrections etc etc...
Then after a year or two when you feel you aren't improving anymore and you already are racing within a second or two per lap from fastest drivers in the world is the good indicator that you acquired everything you can using these wheels and is time to upgrade to something good and advanced like direct drive from logitech fanatec simucube (you name it) with a good load cell brake as then you already have the fundamentals of what it means to drive fast and what its like to drive fast with all the techniques becoming second nature... that you can extrapolate all that extra the good gear offers you like much better FFB, smooth response, good and pressure tech brakes etc...
And best of all... If you are still there driving if not every day or every 2 - 3 days after a year or two with G29 or T300 it means you survived the hype and like to race so it is SAFE to invest into expensive gear that you will use instead of feeling remorse because you don't like to race and wasted all that money.
well written
Level of gamer is always the best wheel. So many people with 5k rigs were soooo far behind some aliens drivong g29. But for average gamer a better wheel and most important (loadcell) will make you faster. Brakes are even as more important than wheel.
Skill is important but skill come with trening
So I did some quick computations; assuming I copied all the numbers and orders correctly... All of your average times are statistically significant (based on 95% confidence intervals). So if an average time shown is the fastest, then it is the fastest (outside a < 5% chance of random chance that it isn't). The Pro wheel was the fastest 4 out of the 6 tracks, the G29 was fastest at one track (Mt. Panorama) while the Dual Sense was the fastest at one track (Red Bull Ring).
What's also interesting, however, is the confounding factor you pointed out in your video; when the Pro wheel was used first (IE the order in which the various control types was used). I'm going to call them stints here (1st stint, 2nd stint, 3rd stint). You were never the fastest on your 1st stint, you were fastest on your 2nd stint 2 out of 6 times (Daytona and Trial Mountain), and you were the fastest on your 3rd stint 4 out of 6 times. The 2 with the 2nd stint being fastest was set using the Pro Wheel. You were slowest on your 1st stint on all tracks except one (Red Bull Ring) where you ran with the Pro wheel.
Thanks for sharing this! Ideally I would have created a larger data set by setting more laps on each tracks while alternating controllers a few times to offset the effect of extra practise/confidence. Always happy to take feedback on board for future videos 👌🏼
Having a sim rig adds immersion and makes sim driving more fun, but that's about it
Great video bro! Love the McLaren shirt btw
Thank you mate! I actually found it in Hollister, great find 😄
Good on ya mate - seems like a decent channel
Wow, great review. If it can improve your speed over the g29, then for me, it might be worth upgrading at some point. Because on spa using my g29, my best speed is 2.17.753, and i would love to improve that, like you say, you can't always feel when you're losing the rear end off your car from a corner .
Haha now is probably a good time to say your mileage may vary, but I do think the load cell pedal is a big help when it comes to trail braking - something I always struggled with on the G29.
@JorgePowell yeah that trail breaking is what's missing on the g29. If you don't mind what's your gt7 name I'm just trying to add people who are good. My gt7 is Mimmzy_46 name.
2:06 not related, but would appreciate if you could share where you got your wall slats from
You should've tried driving with the dualsense using the gyro steering as another option. That's how I play with GT7 and it's really great. The hapticks are good enough to give you details about how your car drives and behaves on different road surfaces with the benefit of steering the car like you would with real steering wheel.
Use nail polish or thread lock on bolts if they loosen like you say on braking over time. Thanks for the video. My kid wants me to build a sim.
This video proves that no matter which you use, the more time and practice you put in, the better.
Amazing video as always! You may or may not remember me from the livestream but I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed it and think you should stream more often.
A better wheel doesn't make you faster if you are already really skilled, it makes you more consistent. If you're not that quick like this guy then yeah you might see a big improvement
I could watch your videos all day 😍
Wow thats a pretty big gain lol massive actually.
Yes, but only with the advantage of a few extra laps practise too! I think the outcome would have been the same regardless but I don’t think the delta would have been as large if I had given myself more time to produce a larger data set 👌🏼
@JorgePowell true but the improvement is there. And at this level that much is plenty. It's worth it tbh even if it was 1/10th a lap haha.
@@reviewforthetube6485 very fair!
the Loadcell probably makes up the most difference. also all G wheels are gear driven and not belt driven
I think the dual sense controller won overall :D
On NASCAR oval racing i immediately had more speed and consistency using a 12nm La Prima instead of a 2nm T150.
The way you can feel the track and your cars' limit such as being able to counter act an oversteer before it is too late felt a bit like cheating at first. On Road racing though I am just as slow as before.
9 to 12 nm are sweet spot for wheel.
The Logitech G920 is still the most popular racing wheel on Amazon because Amazon doesn't actually offer a wide range of Racing wheels and bases outside of the Chinese market.
Thank you for this content 🎉
How high is your tv mounted? I wanna buy the seat but my tv is low
Pedals do, but not wheels they just make it more fun
I've always been playing with my controller.. All the way back to GT1!
I've bought a G29 now, but even after some time I am much slower with the wheel than with the Dualsense.. Cannot get used to it :/ It kind of feels like the car is soft and uncontrollable, and I tend to lose control much faster.. Hard to explain, but I don't enjoy it as much as I had hoped :(
If you only want to get faster, invest in some good load cell pedal. But to enjoy your new load cell pedal, you need it to not move, so invest in a solid rig. Now, your wheel looks like a toy, so invest in a DD wheel. Now you are sitting too far away of your monitor, so invest in a bigger monitor. Enjoy your 2k debt.
Short answer yes.
Long answer that's what these videos are for.
there is a big difference, it does make you faster, gt7 isn't the best game to test it on and logitech doesn't make the best direct drive wheel. but, and the big big but, you don't need to spend the money to enjoy it. the cheapest stuff will allow you to have fun and enjoy it.
GT7 with a G29 is probably the most used combination, so I'd assume that's why he went for it.
Yes it does, especially loadcell pedals.
great video really helped thank you
Where’s the livestream replay?
What if i am trying to get into sim racing just to get better in real life racing?
what's the game name that you were playing at the start of the vid?
you could buy simagic, fanatec or moza gear, but you decided to buy logitech, its been like 2 years and they never released wheels or upgrades for their eco system.. you could buy better for the same price and cockpit
empezó jugando mejor con el Pro, y acabó acostumbrándose al mando XD
VR all the way!
yes it does, but if you have more quality rig, you play on playseat challenge which is shit for DD and LC pedals
Gran Turismo isn't the best example for this comparison, the force feedback is quite limited and the physics are weird when it comes to grip levels.
Os something like Assetto Corsa Competizione the difference would probably be even more noticeable.
I would love to get the Pro Wheel and change from my Thrustmaster TGT2, which is a very good Wheel btw. But my only BIG Problem is the Shifter. I love to drive manual shifted Cars in GT7 and the Thrustmaster Shifter is one of the best on the Market and it feels so Amazing. I dont understand Logitech, releasing the Pro Wheel and Pedals but no Pro Shifter ? Having to use this toyish little crappy feeling Logitech Shifter is absolutely awful and no Option for me :(
Agreed. Although you can upgrade the Logitech shifter with after market parts which make it feel more notchy
@@annekarice1587Ok, didnt knew that. I will have a look at it. Thx !
Thats why i also bought the TGT2 bcos of the shifter which i already owned. I have the cheapest pedals for 80$~, which actually is the most important thing if u wanna be fast. But still the lap i made recently on spa was 2m17.1s with BMW, or 1.58.7 on suzuka so the best way is to invest in some adapter box that could allow u to use fanatec pedals. U can significantly improve your driving experience
@@maveric19871 I have the TLCM Loadcell Pedals from Thrustmaster. They are very good. I modded them with washers and stiffer elastomers to my personal likings. I also have a Drive Hub Adapter already but i hate this Adapter Stuff. Sometimes works very good sometimes it takes time to get everything connected and working properly. 🤷🏻♂️ Greetz
$2,500 for a lawn chair rig, no way!!!
The prices are for complete configurations, with pedals and steering wheels.... the Logitech steering wheel is not cheap
So the playseat is 2500 dollars?
Amazing content. Your content is amazing you look like a friendly guy. :D
Overall great quality of video, but such a misleading message.... There's no way the "Pro" wheel (or any kind of wheel for that matter) will make you 6 seconds quicker over a single lap. Had to stop the video after seeing Suzuka times... Skill and practice is what matters the most. Even using the controller you could get as fast or at least close to the most advanced wheel. I will agree that overall experience with the wheel will be much more realistic, but it won't make you A+ or A driver from a C or D driver
In playset trophy can be monted a dd r5 by moza?
Finaly someone who saying the truth...am sry guys but yes better gear will made you faster, that doesnt make you win every race...but it will improve your time for sure...so if we take 2 "noobs" or average player to race, the one with better gear will get better time...in the end can you be competitive with G29, yes..., but its much harder....compare that with 2 mens going to run, one have boots other have sneakers, now who would win? it depend on runner?, yes, but which one is easier and comfortable?...same with wheel, i was Logitech (momo,G27,G923) user, and i know that wheel will give you a very low feel of whats going on with car, lot of oversteer, cose you simply dont feel where is limit of car and so on...everything this guy said is truth 100%
I think it saves your back in the long run anyway 😂
My the only one who heard him say the g29 is belt driven? I doubt you have been using the g29 for a year bro.
Would have went for a moza or fanatec system for that money
Moza isn’t PlayStation compatible unfortunately, also you should check out my previous videos 👀
To poor to get the Pro but id love to have one man!
Great video overall, but speaking from a PH.D statistics & mathematics perspective, this is very misleading. While I get it for the sake of rounding, saying 1:31.2 vs 1:31.3 is a little misleading (we're actually seeing 1/5 of the difference you're claiming) especially when it's said with such confidence that there was an overall improvement and it highlights xyz when you say the pro wheel is "that" much better. In reality:
The real difference between the 2 wheels is 0.00003, or 0.03% increase in time. Any basic high school statistics course would teach you that this 0.03% margin of error is far more explainable to a small, non-representative data set, than any conclusive evidence of anything. In fact, the pure placebo effect of you wanting to perform better on the pro wheel could likely account for this difference overall.
I think with such an infinitesimal difference, a massive data-set 33 times magnitude would need to be achieved, e.g. we would need to see 150 runs done between the 2 before we can draw any realistic conclusion. Just speaking from a PH.D Mathematics perspective. That being said I'm sure with a proper data-set we would see the pro wheel likely perform better, but I'm just saying that you say with such confidence very misleading information given the infinitesimal difference observed, and it's misleading to "fudge" the numbers given a myriad of lurking variables could exist externally.
When people talk about poloticians being misleading, it's these types of statements "I can feel the pro being much better" ... huh? a 0.03% increase that can be accounted for in every other which way? This just seems dishonest and I'm not sure why you wouldn't just say "with such an infinitesimal difference in time, no real conclusions can be drawn. Although I like the feel of the pro better" or something along those lines.
There is bias with the pro because he’s used to using that wheel so he should’ve gotten a new expensive wheel and a new cheap wheel
G29 Belt driven?its gear driven.
The reviewer is really an expert✅️
2000$ for jusr five sec is crazy and i know it feels better but still
The G29 & 920 are gear driven. Not belt. Belt & Direct Drive are more high end.
Long in the short of it imo...
No. It doesn't make you faster. But it can make you more consistent (faster with practice) & happy if you can't get the feeling down or settings down on lower end gear to get that feeling one wants.
$3,000 in equipment makes your wallet lighter, and lighter cars = more fast
interesting test!
Your missing the psvr2 , it will make your experience 10 x better.
You should check out my previous uploads 😉
Forza and a Xbox controller has been fun as fuck for hundreds of hours to me!
I’m super glad! Imagine how much fun you’d have on a rig 🤩
@@JorgePowell I want one, but it’ll be a while before I can afford it!
Is not about the fastest for me it's all about the immersion, I want to feel inside a cockpit of a race car , behind the wheel , very close to the ground , some people don't care about this , they only care about competition and to be fast at possible, we al different
Yep, I also touched on this 😌
the g29 is gear driven, not belt, the Logitech pro wheel and pedals, I understand that they work with Xbox, there are much much better options for that ungodly price tag
like which ones? I want a good wheel for ACC on Series X
@@cpte.3800 thrustmaster t300 is the lowest i'd ever go, and above that is anything moza, or the thrustmaster direct drive wheel base
Que suerte poder disfrutar del volante. Compré el 27 de noviembre base, pedales y freno de mano, UPS decidió entregarlo en un pickup y nunca lo llevaron a mi casa. El pedido está devuelto y Logitech ya lo tiene en sus almacenes, a día de hoy Logitech todavía no me ha devuelto el dinero. Espero que os vaya bien todo porque ante un problema Logitech no parece una buena empresa.
Fair conclusion, but from my experience lobby's are super competitive and even a differenc eof 0.5 to 1.0 per lap means a 5-10 second lead for a 10 lap race. Sim racing is Pay to win
Yeah of course, hopefully this video contributes something helpful to the conversation at least 😌
%70 practice
%20 skill
%10 gear
Get a G29 / G920 folks, you'll beat any DD wheel user as long as YOU are better than them. Buy expensive wheels only for the quality of life and enjoyment it will bring you, not for an advantage in competitive racing.
15% concentrated power of will
I have been using th G29 for years and its just fine for most people. Lots of good racing and lots of fun for just around £200.
I am a sometimes B license in GT7 and am 80 years old so the G29 wheel can't be all that bad?
The answer is always in real life experience
Does hardware and setups matter in real racing? Yeah, they do. Put the top F1 driver in bottom of the barrel car, he will win zero races.
Put the top Nascar driver in the worst car and pit crew, he's going to win zero races.
So the same will be said in sim racing. If you're racing against the same level opponents, but they have better hardware and in race setups, they will beat you.
Sim racing really ends up being pay to win (with some minor exceptions), just like real life racing
Why does every video like this talk about if it's faster? what about as close to real life car as possible? that is what I care about at least
Did you even watch the video? 😂
@@JorgePowellNonetheless a sim rig does make the experience more fun and enjoyable from the added immersion, that's what's fun about it.
@@JorgePowell This is 2 moths ago now so I don't really remember what the video is about or what I meant by the comment. But I think I just meant in general people seem to just focus on what is the fastest when it comes to sim-racing
Or maybe I just read the title, I don't remember 😅
You are 2 fast 2 handsome.
Yes it does
resume: YES, but the difference is minnor
Why you invested over 1000 euro when you are just 2-3 seconds slower with a controller 🤪🙈
expensive equipment does not make you faster. it makes your experience more realistic.
They do... just
I built my own racing sim a few years ago and sold it to travel the world, i don't think I've ever had a more enjoyable hobby than my racing sim, easily worth the price (like 5-6k with the PC).. Just buy a 5k cheaper car.
I'm getting the pedals first.
I would say for a majority of people that would make them slower.
I know you mean well, but this is false
Don't make people think that money matters. I know you said otherwise, but there are the lap times. Any controller with enough axis can be a weapon in the right hands.
its not the wheel its the brakes!
i got the g920 whit shifter and it cost me arround 300 euro`s
it's like saying "does the RGB lights on your keyboard make you type faster?" the answer is always "yes they do." - your opinions are irrelevant.
Your times are so inconsistent and so far from pace that I don't think you are the right person to be doing this experiment. You need to know how to drive to really take advantage of a direct drive wheel and loadcell pedals where you might be more than a second faster because of how you can read over and understeer and the speed at which you can correct an oversteery car and push it to the limit.
Anyone reading this, direct drives and specially loadcell pedals or active pedals will make you faster as you can be much more precise and consistent with your inputs. But none of that matters if you don't know how to trail break or induce under or oversteer, so you are better off investing in driving lessons and you'll get faster times regardless of the hardware (which the guy in the video should)
Of course it is ok to buy expensive equipments. Why? Because if you are a trully pasionate of the game you will be more enthusiast to play with something well built and with more quality. It is so obvious that expensive things are more likley to give you a better experience. For one reason I can't understand the meaning of this videos and titles.
Does Expensive Sim Racing Gear Make You Faster?
Nope.