A funny sim story for you all. Years ago I worked for a computer manufacturer whose systems were used in military flight simulators. (i.e. the simulator manufacturers would buy our computers, or those of one of our competitors if they took leave of their senses). One of our customers had at one point been trying to sell a helicopter simulator to the Australian Air Force, and a team of people from there had come over to look at the simulator. The team included a couple of pilots, including their chief instructor, procurement, and some brass who fancied the jolly. The simulator company thought it would be a nice touch to have kangaroos hopping around in the hills when the pilots were trying it out, so they quickly modified the appearance and motion of some of the people in the sim (can’t remember the term for them - I’m sure a game developer can tell us what the name is for object-oriented items which have a bunch of externally defined characteristics which can be tweaked in isolation). But they left every other characteristic alone - it was only meant to be a quick bit of fun, but that had unforeseen consequences. Why do you have people on the ground, out in the hills, in a military helicopter simulator? Because they are insurgents (or freedom fighters, depending on your POV). In reality probably ordinary people who had the misfortune to live somewhere invaded by Superpower A and who’d been armed by Superpower B to fight in a proxy war. Such is geopolitics. What the company didn’t know is that Aussie helicopter pilots like to buzz kangaroos for a laugh, so the guy flying did just that, and they all had a good laugh as the kangaroos ran away. They stopped laughing when moments later the kangaroos reappeared, carrying hand-held anti-aircraft missiles and shot the helicopter down. Although later, most of the Aussies thought it had been a funny thing to happen. Except the pilot. Apparently for years afterward, whenever someone new joined the unit, someone would say “Hey, did you ever hear about the time Bill got shot down by a bunch of roos armed with SAMs?”.
yes, but the sim will always have its own place. for example you can race anytime you want, test a large variety of cars and tracks, learn before you push the real car to the limits, drive with far less maintenance, weather doesn’t affect you, you name it.
I did simracing back in 2003, the internet speed available was too laggy or slow for online racing (even with cable internet). I had the original Thrustmaster FFB wheel (that had no model number) with pedal and stick. It was a powerful wheel, very nice. Later on, my relationship died, and of course there were several boxes I forgot to take with me when I left. The wheel plus a HOTAS stick were lost 😪 recently my love for racing was rekindled and I got a 2nd hand T300 wheel with pedals. Practising Spa at the moment, best time 1.45.823 in F2004 in Assetto Corsa. Now waiting for AC EVO to be released
@@BenCollinsGaming Ben, would you be up for saying a happy birthday to 'Mitchell' aka Playstation Racer in his livestream on Wednesday night from 9pm? His birthday is on Thursday(which he's got off). And if you fancied joining for a race, it would be even more of a moment 🥳🥳👍. Tonight we are running the BMW M2 Competition.
Great video. This makes me feel happy about my G29 / PS5 / PSVR2 combo. Can't beat it for the money.. feels incredibly real with the headset on. Can't wait to see what the future of VR brings!
@@Qimchiynot if it’s paired with a PS5 and PSVR2; the Moza doesn’t have direct PS5 support, and I don’t trust those weird 3rd party FFB injectors to survive random Sony updates.
My favorite part about watching you sim racing is how easy it is to soak up the details of your technique. I find myself studying things like how far ahead/when you start to look ahead through corners, and how you’re operating the wheel and pedals next to what I’m seeing onscreen. Something I would love to see is the use of an H-pattern shifter and clutch pedal, along with a pedal cam. Your books go into immaculate detail about technique, amongst other things, but watching the man who wrote the words actually use them himself is truly an experience. Also, the running commentaries you do are loaded with fascinating information/facts/trivia to the point where it feels like I should be taking notes. I’m excited for what you have planned for the future.
Wow. Genuinely fascinating video. Not only about the simulator and the tech behind it, but all of those little titbits of information about real driving. I enjoyed this video much more than I expected to. Thanks for posting.
A level student here! Spent a week with these guys back in July for work experience and was a fantastic experience! Didn't have a go on this rig but sat through a demo on a test rig using a VR headset instead. Really excited to see how things develop further in the future.
My first ffb wheel was a "like new" second hand g25 that I bought in 2014 and then in 2017 I bought a g27, also second hand. I still use it today. No problems at all. Perfect budget wheel for a casual sim racer and trucker like myself.
What a fantastic piece of engineering. It's rather encouraging you used a simple setup to develop racing games. I have a T300RS GT with about twice the force. I haven't raced for a while mainly due to the steep learning curve. I wish there was a decent teaching tool.
Never played Project Cars 2 that much when it came out because I didn’t have a wheel. Just bought a Thrustmaster T300 and I can’t wait to try it out. I tried it with a controller the other day and I love the “potential” lap time that is shown. It really shows how if you practice more and string together a good lap you can improve your lap times by multiple seconds. Thank you Ben for your work on PC2. The car and track selection is wonderful!
Comments full of fanboys hating on Ben for using a Logitech G29. If an ex race driver and LITERALLY THE STIG says its good enough, its probably good enough. And as he says, for around £200-250 all in you can't go wrong.
It's a bit like the casual road weekend warrior cyclists spending thousands on their carbon bike, with carbon wheels, electronic gears to ride to a coffee shop with their mates on a Sunday.
@@billy4eyes512yep, this is why you see every single person say that their "wheel is the best!!! you must buy x and y!" when they have no experience with anything else, they just trying to justify spending the money.
Love to see you do some live streams. A more casual and interactive format, where we can watch you race in real-time and maybe even chat with you, would be amazing. It would be great to see a more down-to-earth side of you just enjoying racing online with the community. What do you think?
ok I'll look into the tech on that. currently facing a back log of films while we try to figure out how to edit the Iracing outputs.. let alone stream it live - life goals
This was an absolutely awesome video, Ben! It's really cool getting to you see you in an insane sim rig like that on Spa. I'm glad you mentioned the movement-- I've seen a lot of motion rigs where the movement is more like a roller coaster simulator than a driving one. It's also enlightening to hear you say that most sims tend to overdo the loss of grip on the wheels. I've always felt that was the case with the grip (doubly so for wet weather in almost every sim). Thank you and I'm really looking forward to more videos on this channel (and your main one). P.S. I love that you have a "simple" rig. There's a bit of a cult in sim racing and besides you, the only other person I've seen say a lot of it doesn't matter is Tidgney (who primarily races in Gran Turismo 7 and Assetto Corsa Competizione).
Forza 7 is actually pretty decent because you don't immediately die after you pass the grip limit. Though you do tend to oversteer/drift for too long until the grip comes back. Project Cars 2 is actually pretty good too. The best ones are the ones that sim losers say aren't sims. Austin Ogonoski sets WR times with a g29, and he was also a QA tester for PC2, though I think he finally got something better. Myself personally, I skipped the logitech setup and got a cheapish belt drive from fanatec. About a year ago I got the CSL DD on a black friday deal because the old wheel was definitely aging. Sim racing is definitely annoying with people buying the most expensive stuff because "realism" in a game where you have to baby tires and can't touch curbs.
bought a G923 so I could race with my brother in law and my brother (they're both on DD). bought a cheap Dardoo stand for $100, used my office chair, and was perfectly happy playing F1 23. Brother in law just upgraded his rig and donated his old but still awesome stuff to my cause. , so now my rig is worth more than my wheel and pedals lol
If a g29 is good enough for the stig, it’s certainly good enough for me. I like how you are able to appreciate humble hardware and extreme. And I really enjoy hearing your insights. Like how you would tell your team to adjust the front aero because you’re losing rear grip on a turn. It just means more coming from somebody that has serious first and experience.
Google Street View needs to be projected onto the screen. Imagine the travelling you could do! From Portsmouth to Dunsfold, round the track to Buckingham Palace and before you know it……. The nursery is calling you up saying you haven’t picked your kids up yet sir. 😂😂
My desk set up was a logitech g25 for a long time then i upgraded gearbox to thrustmaster 7 speed. For me, it was all about how i could recreate real car journeys & loved it when steering would get light during traction issues. Ben, i will keep asking please give me a face off with you &mike fernie. Sim wheel should help even odds.😅
I remember in my very early 20s in 1987 at the Australian car show in Sydney they had a JPS "racing simulator" but it wasn't actually something anyone could get in and drive. It was like a very small completely light proof theatre - perhaps holding a dozen people (from memory). We all sat down in bucket seats and in a completely dark environment a very large screen at the front lit up. On the screen was an in-car camera on the (then) star of Group A touring cars - a BMW E30 M3. Basically we took a lap around a circuit from the passenger seat perspective and this entire structure bucked and weaved, pitched up, down, yawed - you name it. It was unbelievably immersive and the fact that this was 1987 was even more startling in retrospect. I remember we literally even had to hold onto our seats under braking and around the corners. OK, this is probably not something I would want to go back and visit because I would probably be disappointed these days as we have taken enormous leaps and bounds for granted. Certainly what satisfied me as a sim racer even 5 years ago wouldn't remotely cut it now, let alone what I had 20 years ago. But it was a great memory if only because of the era and how it opened my eyes up to marrying a visual effect (the passenger "race cam" on the screen) to G forces that were actually significant for what it was.
love those experiences - wondered about doing something like for a live audience. I remember being blown away by the back to the future ride when it came out
They had one at the park in downtown Spokane when we went to visit my grandpa om the early 2000s it was a virtual rollercoaster, besides the graphics that made it look like it was constructed out of the microsoft tube screensaver I was convinced it would be the future of amusement rides... as a 10 year old lol
Only just bought a wheel this year - a mighty Logitec Force Ex, for the princely sum of eight quid plus shipping. Most fun I've had for years is finally getting through the time trials in Gran Tourismo 3! Quite gratifying seeing the stig uses a budget rig. On the risk/reward thing, I think I'm going to start getting my brother to slap me across the face every time I bin a corner and see if my times improve more than the concussion hinders me 👍
Ahhhhh, always loved Ben. Hope to see more of racing stuff from here, if possible, explain to us how should we drive in each of these tracks with different type of cars.🎉🎉🎉
So now we know why the FFB in pCars was so lacking😁 Actually most motion-rigs for consumers are using actuators, not hydraulics. Actuators react quickly, but are slow with the motion because they work like drillers. The fast ones can do 300 mm/s, which is app. 1 km/h and D-Box is even slower. That's why less motion is better with those types, so you only get the initial motion cues. I'm using the SimXperience G-Seat with G-Belt plus a couple of shakers, because they are the quickest. It's a relatively cheap full 6 DOF setup and I'm quite happy with it, but feels more like a roadcar on a twisty country road.
oh my god.. If you like having your butt pinched and a massage while driving then pile in my friend. I'll take real cues over a squeeze from a stranger every day of the week.
@@BenCollinsGaming Both combined would be the best, but motion alone is often lacklaster and the opposite of the g-forces in a real car like roll. The GS-5 plus G-Belt does all 6 DOF quite convincing minus accelerating. It feels like a car, not sim-racing on a roller-coaster and another big advantage: full VR-compatibility. The people with the crazy motion-rigs usually avoid VR and rather put their triples on the motion rig. Especially since the Quest 3, flatscreen sim-racing is dead to me.
You can hear the rig has LFE rumble effects aside from the motion, which is why you can hear road feel, engine RPM, and lockup despite his headphones. In defense of the cheaper rig, the Logitech wheels with trueforce actually sound exactly like this when you set it up in iRacing, ACC, RFactor 2, etc. with the volume off. LFE/Rumble has been a component of consumer sim rigs since Gran Turismo added dualshock effects, but surprisingly you don't see much of it in modern sims outside rigs costing upward of $2k. Highly overlooked feature in budget rigs which can help you sense traction loss without a motion sim.
I had a couple g27s and a g29. I upgraded to the Thrustmaster T300 and man what a difference in feeling. But the G29 is a great starter into sim racing.
What an amazing setup! Sim looks like ACC, I wonder if it's a custom version or something else. Love the sense of speed with this wraparound screen. Amazing stuff!
@@felipetartas5434 ACP is for commercial use. You don't technically need an ACP license if everyone involved is bought an AC license AFAIK. So it's most likely AC. EDIT: Nah, that's not the AC track. Pretty clear near the end in the ingame views. On the projector, it looks A LOT like AC to me due to the funny gamma. Probably rF Pro.
I'm impressed how the cheap wheels can still hold on, I had mine for almost 10 years now (G27) since I was 14-15, and I learnt everything from it before getting into trackdays as a young adult. Well except for the butt feeling, that's a weird thing that I have to develop hahah.
Interesting garage project, the moving simulator is certainly fantastically precise, but you could save 2 million on the car frame and projector room, with VR glasses and a normal cockpit frame. Now the development direction can be the compact size so that it can be moved :)
On the risk reward of binning it in the sim... When I use sims for training purposes, I wear a few rubberbands on my wrist and give the back of my hand a snap when I mess things up. Minor sting, but just enough of a reminder to the brain that it would have hurt in real life.
For potential buyers, bear in mind that is a G29 wheel, which comes with pedals - coupled with a a G27 shifter. If you want a shifter for your G29 it's gonna cost about another $80 (AUD.) For me the entire G27 package is better, as I play racing games as well as Truck sims (so having the extra buttons on the shifter unit is a plus.) but you'll have to find a decent G27 second hand.
In regards to the expensive sim setup and running it on tracks to simulate side slip or driftng.. I recently saw a sim rig which did this, but much cheaper.. It was an average priced motion platform using small hydaulic rams. But the front of the rig was connected to a vertical pole and the rear of the rig had a small motor and wheel. So basically the entire rig could pivot around the front end. If the car went around the corner the wheel on the back rotated to change the direction you was pointing in. It basically just tracked the yaw degrees. So starting off you are at 0 degrees, if you go aorund a right hand corner you are now facing 90 degrees, etc. And while it could move you nice and steady as you just drive around corners, if you made the car drift or you do a handbrake turn, that little wheel could really move and it would fling the back end of the car around at a hell of a rate.
The screen should move together with the whole rig. If you step on the brake you should hang by your seat belts, but that would be really weird in this rig.
It doesn’t have to…..visuals and motion are synced. The software knows where the driver is so renders it correct at every frame…the stuff used in home rigs can’t do that so you need to have the screens mounted on your motion rig.
Oh yeah massive respect for doing the Sim racing thing, I loved Project Cars 2, A solid Sim racing title PC2, It is why I am hooked to ASM 2, AMS 2 is my go to Sim Racing title, Reiza doing a top job with AMS 2, You worked on Project Cars 2 didn't you Ben?, Big up for doing what you is doing with Sim Racing, I see Racing as a great way of learning skills that can be used in real life, So to speak, I also think communities needs some Sim Racing centers for the youth, If the Youth had a place with things like Sim Rigs, Then the older people can then keep an eye on the youth, There is way too many kids running around the streets causing mayhem, If the youth had a center with Sim Racing facilities, And other things for the kids, You never know the next F1 champ could come from a Sim Racing center, But I see Racing could be used as a tool to educate the youth, If there is something that will get the youth wanting to go there, Then They could use Sim racing for an entrance into other forms of education, After all a learned society is a productive society, lol, But yeah I do think sim Racing centers would so well, A lot of people can't afford the set ups with DD wheels, Motion rigs, ect, We had a go Karting place when I was growing up, A fiver would get you half hour if I remember right, Not anymore lol, Go Karting can be expensive, Great exercise Go Karting is, Last time I went Karting I done an hour and felt like I been working out for days, lol, If I had a place to keep a Kart I would get one, But I live in a 3rd floor flat with no lifts, Karting is a good way to get into racing, So it be good to see more Karting centers open, And discounts for youth centers... But yeah big up for doing the Sim racing thing, I think it is fantastic people can jump in a rig at home and race other people, Making Sim Racing more than just a game, lol....
I still miss Geoff Crammond's F1GP on the PC on keyboard. The manual gears was inplemented perfectly :) What Ben said about hydraulics is wrong though. Most motion rigs are actuator based
I'd be interested in you getting to compare this to something like a simucube/asetek setup with transducers in each corner and VR. Based on your 'less is more' comment on the motion setups and the immersion, I suspect it'd deliver a lot of the value for a much more modest* price. *modest is a word simracers use to pretend we're not insane for spending crazy money on what are basically fancy game controllers.
@@seattime4075 I was just watching another video of this and I think the projector frames might have been only 30 fps as in movie projectors. Don't think that those projectors could even project more than 60 fps, so there is another big no no for using projectors for sim. Software wise tire and car models were far from optimal. Flipping F1 car from curbs and tires going instantly from 100% traction to something like 10% traction, when in reality it is a logical and much slower transition.
so happy ive found this channel. the stig and gaming? going to love this i thinks :) that simulator is mad. but then again so is the price. love to have a go in that. (can they build one out of a S1 RS turbo shell and recaros instead) only joking :P i got the g29 and im looking at a simple frame and seat.
curious to know if it was standard Rfactor 2 they were using or just the Rfactor engine with their own tyre model and physics? Great content, lovely to have a proper driver giving in depth mature analysis on something simracing related. Refreshing to find on youtube!
I had the G923 with the True Break pedal mod for the break pedal. Now uograded to a Moza R9 and still cannot beat my previous times. Starting to regret not keeping my little budget rig. Force feed back is obviously a lot more but it does not equal faster.
13:55 Sounds like you're talking about the iRacing tyre model . . . all kinds of grip until you try to do anything with slip angle . . . then nothing. I wouldn't lump all sims with iRacing. I would actually put iRacing in a class by itself (and that's not necessarily a good thing). Give AMS1 or AC another go. 💖💜💙
5 pieces sold. So basically 5 F1 or other top level teams have one in their factory? ;-) Would love to have 2,5 milion lying around. Until then I'll do with the 'you can't go wrong' setup. Still fun 🙂
BETTER than that 2.5 millon dollar rig. Is the drag tag set up from Australia that you can put ANY car on a rolling dyno with a screen in font of you alot like the wrap a round screen with that 2 million rig. Emagine putting your favorite F-1 CAR ON this rig. It would be louder and waaay more realistic. Jay leno put his yellow corvette on this rig back in 2011. There's video of this on the internet somewhere. Might be on you tube. Might wanna see if there still in business in 2024. Hopefully you can try this out.
Next video ‘How to hit the apex’? 😂 I thought you were initially not aggressive enough on the turn in to Eau Rouge (not running the hatching enough), but you changed that in the second half of the video and stopped crashing 😊
A funny sim story for you all.
Years ago I worked for a computer manufacturer whose systems were used in military flight simulators. (i.e. the simulator manufacturers would buy our computers, or those of one of our competitors if they took leave of their senses). One of our customers had at one point been trying to sell a helicopter simulator to the Australian Air Force, and a team of people from there had come over to look at the simulator. The team included a couple of pilots, including their chief instructor, procurement, and some brass who fancied the jolly.
The simulator company thought it would be a nice touch to have kangaroos hopping around in the hills when the pilots were trying it out, so they quickly modified the appearance and motion of some of the people in the sim (can’t remember the term for them - I’m sure a game developer can tell us what the name is for object-oriented items which have a bunch of externally defined characteristics which can be tweaked in isolation). But they left every other characteristic alone - it was only meant to be a quick bit of fun, but that had unforeseen consequences.
Why do you have people on the ground, out in the hills, in a military helicopter simulator? Because they are insurgents (or freedom fighters, depending on your POV). In reality probably ordinary people who had the misfortune to live somewhere invaded by Superpower A and who’d been armed by Superpower B to fight in a proxy war. Such is geopolitics.
What the company didn’t know is that Aussie helicopter pilots like to buzz kangaroos for a laugh, so the guy flying did just that, and they all had a good laugh as the kangaroos ran away.
They stopped laughing when moments later the kangaroos reappeared, carrying hand-held anti-aircraft missiles and shot the helicopter down. Although later, most of the Aussies thought it had been a funny thing to happen. Except the pilot.
Apparently for years afterward, whenever someone new joined the unit, someone would say “Hey, did you ever hear about the time Bill got shot down by a bunch of roos armed with SAMs?”.
Love how the stig is using an under 500pound rig 🫡 salute to you sir 👏
For 2.5 million you could buy a 992 cup car and race a full season of Carrera Cup🤣
I wonder what it would cost with 2024 graphics...
agree!
yes, but the sim will always have its own place. for example you can race anytime you want, test a large variety of cars and tracks, learn before you push the real car to the limits, drive with far less maintenance, weather doesn’t affect you, you name it.
But you'd have to go outside and there'd be people. 😂
He would have been dead atleast four times from what I seen… thank fully it’s a 2.5mil sim 🤣🤣
Average Hammond track day experience. Halfway through leaves via helicopter 😂
hahaha
😂😂😂😂
Makes me feel good about my G27 and T150. Great stuff.
yep love the entry level stuff - amazing to experience the tip top end though and see what incredible technology is out there
Haha same. The G29 does the job. I did end up changing out to a stronger spring for the brake pedal and it feels much nicer now.
we're lucky how many great wheels there are available at basically every budget
I did simracing back in 2003, the internet speed available was too laggy or slow for online racing (even with cable internet). I had the original Thrustmaster FFB wheel (that had no model number) with pedal and stick. It was a powerful wheel, very nice. Later on, my relationship died, and of course there were several boxes I forgot to take with me when I left. The wheel plus a HOTAS stick were lost 😪
recently my love for racing was rekindled and I got a 2nd hand T300 wheel with pedals. Practising Spa at the moment, best time 1.45.823 in F2004 in Assetto Corsa.
Now waiting for AC EVO to be released
@@paulmichaelfreedman8334 That's good going. T300 is an awesome wheel.
Thank you for what you are doing for Sim Racing.
My pleasure!
@@BenCollinsGaming Ben, would you be up for saying a happy birthday to 'Mitchell' aka Playstation Racer in his livestream on Wednesday night from 9pm? His birthday is on Thursday(which he's got off). And if you fancied joining for a race, it would be even more of a moment 🥳🥳👍. Tonight we are running the BMW M2 Competition.
@@DracFury ill swing past mate
@@taylur3487 Ford Focus RS tonight. 680pp, 403bhp, 1,245 kg
I bet Paul Gerrard could beat you😅. Jk. I'm currently building my own 4 DOF sim rig, so this is cool to see how it functions.
Great video. This makes me feel happy about my G29 / PS5 / PSVR2 combo. Can't beat it for the money.. feels incredibly real with the headset on. Can't wait to see what the future of VR brings!
Might wanna upgrade to the Cammus C12 or Moza R5. Direct drive is a very nice upgrade.
@@Qimchiynot if it’s paired with a PS5 and PSVR2; the Moza doesn’t have direct PS5 support, and I don’t trust those weird 3rd party FFB injectors to survive random Sony updates.
@@IainLambert oh. Didn't know the MOZA didn't support PS. My bad
Just upgraded to Logitech pro & it is a huge difference
My favorite part about watching you sim racing is how easy it is to soak up the details of your technique. I find myself studying things like how far ahead/when you start to look ahead through corners, and how you’re operating the wheel and pedals next to what I’m seeing onscreen. Something I would love to see is the use of an H-pattern shifter and clutch pedal, along with a pedal cam. Your books go into immaculate detail about technique, amongst other things, but watching the man who wrote the words actually use them himself is truly an experience. Also, the running commentaries you do are loaded with fascinating information/facts/trivia to the point where it feels like I should be taking notes. I’m excited for what you have planned for the future.
Wow. Genuinely fascinating video. Not only about the simulator and the tech behind it, but all of those little titbits of information about real driving. I enjoyed this video much more than I expected to. Thanks for posting.
Glad it was helpful!
A level student here! Spent a week with these guys back in July for work experience and was a fantastic experience! Didn't have a go on this rig but sat through a demo on a test rig using a VR headset instead. Really excited to see how things develop further in the future.
This is better with the technical speak. The more you explain, the better the content .
My first ffb wheel was a "like new" second hand g25 that I bought in 2014 and then in 2017 I bought a g27, also second hand. I still use it today. No problems at all. Perfect budget wheel for a casual sim racer and trucker like myself.
have you had to clean the pedal potentiometers
What a fantastic piece of engineering. It's rather encouraging you used a simple setup to develop racing games. I have a T300RS GT with about twice the force. I haven't raced for a while mainly due to the steep learning curve. I wish there was a decent teaching tool.
Never played Project Cars 2 that much when it came out because I didn’t have a wheel. Just bought a Thrustmaster T300 and I can’t wait to try it out.
I tried it with a controller the other day and I love the “potential” lap time that is shown. It really shows how if you practice more and string together a good lap you can improve your lap times by multiple seconds.
Thank you Ben for your work on PC2. The car and track selection is wonderful!
Hope you enjoy it - there's an annoying voice in the background (lolz) but you should hopefully enjoy the immersion
Comments full of fanboys hating on Ben for using a Logitech G29.
If an ex race driver and LITERALLY THE STIG says its good enough, its probably good enough.
And as he says, for around £200-250 all in you can't go wrong.
It's a bit like the casual road weekend warrior cyclists spending thousands on their carbon bike, with carbon wheels, electronic gears to ride to a coffee shop with their mates on a Sunday.
@@billy4eyes512 Bingo.. And then they still get dropped by me in basketball shorts riding my fixed gear on my monday morning commute lmfao
@@gavindawson3108 I could watch Ben Collins drive anywhere if that's around a track or on a sim, I don't care
@@billy4eyes512yep, this is why you see every single person say that their "wheel is the best!!! you must buy x and y!" when they have no experience with anything else, they just trying to justify spending the money.
@@greg_one_izm out of interest, what's your irating?
Love to see you do some live streams. A more casual and interactive format, where we can watch you race in real-time and maybe even chat with you, would be amazing. It would be great to see a more down-to-earth side of you just enjoying racing online with the community. What do you think?
ok I'll look into the tech on that. currently facing a back log of films while we try to figure out how to edit the Iracing outputs.. let alone stream it live - life goals
I watched a lot more than I expected. Thanks for that trip, cheers man.
Glad you enjoyed it
This was an absolutely awesome video, Ben! It's really cool getting to you see you in an insane sim rig like that on Spa. I'm glad you mentioned the movement-- I've seen a lot of motion rigs where the movement is more like a roller coaster simulator than a driving one. It's also enlightening to hear you say that most sims tend to overdo the loss of grip on the wheels. I've always felt that was the case with the grip (doubly so for wet weather in almost every sim). Thank you and I'm really looking forward to more videos on this channel (and your main one).
P.S. I love that you have a "simple" rig. There's a bit of a cult in sim racing and besides you, the only other person I've seen say a lot of it doesn't matter is Tidgney (who primarily races in Gran Turismo 7 and Assetto Corsa Competizione).
Forza 7 is actually pretty decent because you don't immediately die after you pass the grip limit. Though you do tend to oversteer/drift for too long until the grip comes back. Project Cars 2 is actually pretty good too. The best ones are the ones that sim losers say aren't sims.
Austin Ogonoski sets WR times with a g29, and he was also a QA tester for PC2, though I think he finally got something better. Myself personally, I skipped the logitech setup and got a cheapish belt drive from fanatec. About a year ago I got the CSL DD on a black friday deal because the old wheel was definitely aging. Sim racing is definitely annoying with people buying the most expensive stuff because "realism" in a game where you have to baby tires and can't touch curbs.
what a rig.
lottery goals.
you can buy a actual car and drive if you win .
It's nice to know that at some point in time, the Stig used the same equipment that I did. You just made my day.
bought a G923 so I could race with my brother in law and my brother (they're both on DD). bought a cheap Dardoo stand for $100, used my office chair, and was perfectly happy playing F1 23. Brother in law just upgraded his rig and donated his old but still awesome stuff to my cause. , so now my rig is worth more than my wheel and pedals lol
It's the fun that counts!
If a g29 is good enough for the stig, it’s certainly good enough for me. I like how you are able to appreciate humble hardware and extreme. And I really enjoy hearing your insights. Like how you would tell your team to adjust the front aero because you’re losing rear grip on a turn. It just means more coming from somebody that has serious first and experience.
Google Street View needs to be projected onto the screen.
Imagine the travelling you could do!
From Portsmouth to Dunsfold, round the track to Buckingham Palace and before you know it…….
The nursery is calling you up saying you haven’t picked your kids up yet sir.
😂😂
My desk set up was a logitech g25 for a long time then i upgraded gearbox to thrustmaster 7 speed. For me, it was all about how i could recreate real car journeys & loved it when steering would get light during traction issues. Ben, i will keep asking please give me a face off with you &mike fernie. Sim wheel should help even odds.😅
another great idea - thank you I'll get him in for a session
I would love to drive that simulator at Oulton Park !! The Undulations, loss of traction always catches me out 😅😅
I remember in my very early 20s in 1987 at the Australian car show in Sydney they had a JPS "racing simulator" but it wasn't actually something anyone could get in and drive. It was like a very small completely light proof theatre - perhaps holding a dozen people (from memory). We all sat down in bucket seats and in a completely dark environment a very large screen at the front lit up. On the screen was an in-car camera on the (then) star of Group A touring cars - a BMW E30 M3. Basically we took a lap around a circuit from the passenger seat perspective and this entire structure bucked and weaved, pitched up, down, yawed - you name it. It was unbelievably immersive and the fact that this was 1987 was even more startling in retrospect. I remember we literally even had to hold onto our seats under braking and around the corners. OK, this is probably not something I would want to go back and visit because I would probably be disappointed these days as we have taken enormous leaps and bounds for granted. Certainly what satisfied me as a sim racer even 5 years ago wouldn't remotely cut it now, let alone what I had 20 years ago. But it was a great memory if only because of the era and how it opened my eyes up to marrying a visual effect (the passenger "race cam" on the screen) to G forces that were actually significant for what it was.
Dick Johnson Racing had one at one stage. It was a lap of Bathurst
love those experiences - wondered about doing something like for a live audience. I remember being blown away by the back to the future ride when it came out
@@batchmotorsport just whipping through to make you feel old😂😂 I wasn't even on the planet in yet, in 1987 !
They had one at the park in downtown Spokane when we went to visit my grandpa om the early 2000s
it was a virtual rollercoaster, besides the graphics that made it look like it was constructed out of the microsoft tube screensaver I was convinced it would be the future of amusement rides... as a 10 year old lol
Only just bought a wheel this year - a mighty Logitec Force Ex, for the princely sum of eight quid plus shipping. Most fun I've had for years is finally getting through the time trials in Gran Tourismo 3! Quite gratifying seeing the stig uses a budget rig.
On the risk/reward thing, I think I'm going to start getting my brother to slap me across the face every time I bin a corner and see if my times improve more than the concussion hinders me 👍
That's some amazing engineering! 😍🥰
It really is!
Think I’ll stick with my Logitech g920 it does the job. Would love to have a go though. Love this channel.
Logitech have done a lot for us (an unsponsored comment I assure you)
Didn't know Ben Collins used to simrace since the Grand Prix days. What an all-around awesome dude!
$2.5 million racing sim chariot taking you to heaven. Ha! That was funny. 😂
I got a Driving Force GT, made for Gran Turismo. I might just set it up again for some fun. Nice one Ben!
Ahhhhh, always loved Ben. Hope to see more of racing stuff from here, if possible, explain to us how should we drive in each of these tracks with different type of cars.🎉🎉🎉
thats a really great idea thank you - good call
So now we know why the FFB in pCars was so lacking😁 Actually most motion-rigs for consumers are using actuators, not hydraulics. Actuators react quickly, but are slow with the motion because they work like drillers. The fast ones can do 300 mm/s, which is app. 1 km/h and D-Box is even slower. That's why less motion is better with those types, so you only get the initial motion cues. I'm using the SimXperience G-Seat with G-Belt plus a couple of shakers, because they are the quickest. It's a relatively cheap full 6 DOF setup and I'm quite happy with it, but feels more like a roadcar on a twisty country road.
I second that. The G-Seat and the G-Belt with shakers are not only cheaper but a superior solution imo.
oh my god.. If you like having your butt pinched and a massage while driving then pile in my friend. I'll take real cues over a squeeze from a stranger every day of the week.
@@BenCollinsGaming Both combined would be the best, but motion alone is often lacklaster and the opposite of the g-forces in a real car like roll. The GS-5 plus G-Belt does all 6 DOF quite convincing minus accelerating. It feels like a car, not sim-racing on a roller-coaster and another big advantage: full VR-compatibility. The people with the crazy motion-rigs usually avoid VR and rather put their triples on the motion rig. Especially since the Quest 3, flatscreen sim-racing is dead to me.
@@Leynad778lackluster *
What kind of actuator
You can hear the rig has LFE rumble effects aside from the motion, which is why you can hear road feel, engine RPM, and lockup despite his headphones. In defense of the cheaper rig, the Logitech wheels with trueforce actually sound exactly like this when you set it up in iRacing, ACC, RFactor 2, etc. with the volume off. LFE/Rumble has been a component of consumer sim rigs since Gran Turismo added dualshock effects, but surprisingly you don't see much of it in modern sims outside rigs costing upward of $2k. Highly overlooked feature in budget rigs which can help you sense traction loss without a motion sim.
I had a couple g27s and a g29. I upgraded to the Thrustmaster T300 and man what a difference in feeling. But the G29 is a great starter into sim racing.
We did get a great sense of elevation change after the crash though as you ‘flew’ around the track.
That was really great to watch, really hypnotic.
Yeah when he stopped talking I nearly fell asleep
What an amazing setup! Sim looks like ACC, I wonder if it's a custom version or something else. Love the sense of speed with this wraparound screen. Amazing stuff!
ACC dont look this bad
maybe rFactor pro
Assetto Corsa Pro maybe
@@felipetartas5434 ACP is for commercial use. You don't technically need an ACP license if everyone involved is bought an AC license AFAIK. So it's most likely AC.
EDIT: Nah, that's not the AC track. Pretty clear near the end in the ingame views. On the projector, it looks A LOT like AC to me due to the funny gamma. Probably rF Pro.
i love seeing a REAL race car driver using a basic sim set up.
Nice one Ben, new sub to the channel and wanting more👍🏽❤️
"Ive done another Jack Villaneuve over Eau Rouge.." hahaha love this.
thank you for posting
You're welcome
I'm impressed how the cheap wheels can still hold on, I had mine for almost 10 years now (G27) since I was 14-15, and I learnt everything from it before getting into trackdays as a young adult. Well except for the butt feeling, that's a weird thing that I have to develop hahah.
You need Absen led monitor/screen, absolutely awesome picture...expensive but fantastic
Interesting garage project, the moving simulator is certainly fantastically precise, but you could save 2 million on the car frame and projector room, with VR glasses and a normal cockpit frame. Now the development direction can be the compact size so that it can be moved :)
This could be useful also i think for racing-game development, testing ingame car-physics and such.
On the risk reward of binning it in the sim... When I use sims for training purposes, I wear a few rubberbands on my wrist and give the back of my hand a snap when I mess things up. Minor sting, but just enough of a reminder to the brain that it would have hurt in real life.
For potential buyers, bear in mind that is a G29 wheel, which comes with pedals - coupled with a a G27 shifter. If you want a shifter for your G29 it's gonna cost about another $80 (AUD.) For me the entire G27 package is better, as I play racing games as well as Truck sims (so having the extra buttons on the shifter unit is a plus.) but you'll have to find a decent G27 second hand.
In regards to the expensive sim setup and running it on tracks to simulate side slip or driftng.. I recently saw a sim rig which did this, but much cheaper.. It was an average priced motion platform using small hydaulic rams. But the front of the rig was connected to a vertical pole and the rear of the rig had a small motor and wheel. So basically the entire rig could pivot around the front end. If the car went around the corner the wheel on the back rotated to change the direction you was pointing in. It basically just tracked the yaw degrees. So starting off you are at 0 degrees, if you go aorund a right hand corner you are now facing 90 degrees, etc. And while it could move you nice and steady as you just drive around corners, if you made the car drift or you do a handbrake turn, that little wheel could really move and it would fling the back end of the car around at a hell of a rate.
Dying is nothing to the Stig, remember he went off the side of that Carrier.
But that was a different Stig. 😂
That is an absolutely insane setup 🤯
Well damn ! Your the OG SimRacer 🤘🏻🏁
Ben is actually a really good presenter.
Expected this to milkshake the guy, but it turned to be a smooth ride in a convertible instead.
The screen should move together with the whole rig. If you step on the brake you should hang by your seat belts, but that would be really weird in this rig.
It doesn’t have to…..visuals and motion are synced. The software knows where the driver is so renders it correct at every frame…the stuff used in home rigs can’t do that so you need to have the screens mounted on your motion rig.
Oh yeah massive respect for doing the Sim racing thing, I loved Project Cars 2, A solid Sim racing title PC2, It is why I am hooked to ASM 2, AMS 2 is my go to Sim Racing title, Reiza doing a top job with AMS 2, You worked on Project Cars 2 didn't you Ben?, Big up for doing what you is doing with Sim Racing, I see Racing as a great way of learning skills that can be used in real life, So to speak, I also think communities needs some Sim Racing centers for the youth, If the Youth had a place with things like Sim Rigs, Then the older people can then keep an eye on the youth, There is way too many kids running around the streets causing mayhem, If the youth had a center with Sim Racing facilities, And other things for the kids, You never know the next F1 champ could come from a Sim Racing center, But I see Racing could be used as a tool to educate the youth, If there is something that will get the youth wanting to go there, Then They could use Sim racing for an entrance into other forms of education, After all a learned society is a productive society, lol, But yeah I do think sim Racing centers would so well, A lot of people can't afford the set ups with DD wheels, Motion rigs, ect, We had a go Karting place when I was growing up, A fiver would get you half hour if I remember right, Not anymore lol, Go Karting can be expensive, Great exercise Go Karting is, Last time I went Karting I done an hour and felt like I been working out for days, lol, If I had a place to keep a Kart I would get one, But I live in a 3rd floor flat with no lifts, Karting is a good way to get into racing, So it be good to see more Karting centers open, And discounts for youth centers...
But yeah big up for doing the Sim racing thing, I think it is fantastic people can jump in a rig at home and race other people, Making Sim Racing more than just a game, lol....
Here's an video idea: Load up different parameters and have the Stig try and guess what car he's driving on this rig
Dope video - subscribed!
I still miss Geoff Crammond's F1GP on the PC on keyboard. The manual gears was inplemented perfectly :)
What Ben said about hydraulics is wrong though. Most motion rigs are actuator based
Ben definitely put his stig face on about 18 minutes in 😂
I'd be interested in you getting to compare this to something like a simucube/asetek setup with transducers in each corner and VR. Based on your 'less is more' comment on the motion setups and the immersion, I suspect it'd deliver a lot of the value for a much more modest* price.
*modest is a word simracers use to pretend we're not insane for spending crazy money on what are basically fancy game controllers.
Brilliant piece This is the only kind of driver perspective I would want on sims of this calibre. I wonder if he'll create his own sim company?
Very cool. I am very surprised the vehicle is not actually fully enclosed.
HAHAHA I am sitting here watching you float away internally screaming "LET GO OF THE WHEELLLL!!!!!"
I never let go !!
Great video keep them coming.
More to come!
this was brilliant
Mixed reality is so good now, that this type of screen setup is just not necessary anymore.
Was just thinking the same. Good vr like quest 3 is far more immersive than this or any other large screen setup.
@@sp33dou And if you have the money (which these people would) for a VARJO XR4, or Somnium VR1 XR, then really no contest.
@@seattime4075 I was just watching another video of this and I think the projector frames might have been only 30 fps as in movie projectors. Don't think that those projectors could even project more than 60 fps, so there is another big no no for using projectors for sim.
Software wise tire and car models were far from optimal. Flipping F1 car from curbs and tires going instantly from 100% traction to something like 10% traction, when in reality it is a logical and much slower transition.
@@sp33douMy projector does 120HZ in game mode and isn't all that expensive. 1080P from like 5 years ago.
@@jimbonater Good clarification!
Playing on my G series wheel after seeing this gave me LOADS of confidence
- I won the lottery!!!
- Grats! I bet you buy some dream car.
- yyyy, no
O'boy,,,🤙🏻🤙🏻💪🏼💪🏼
Much Respect for you Sir.
the new ocullus … with sim racing incredible this is way ott
Nice 1 Ben 👍🏆
so happy ive found this channel. the stig and gaming? going to love this i thinks :)
that simulator is mad. but then again so is the price. love to have a go in that. (can they build one out of a S1 RS turbo shell and recaros instead) only joking :P
i got the g29 and im looking at a simple frame and seat.
Ben , still haven´t seen you doing a VR2 run yet ,,, am sure Sony could " lend " you one for the Playsation ;-)
I hate those „You could get a car for that” comments under pretty much every rig post ever, but 2.5 million is where I definitely draw the line 🤣
… love these videos Mr Collins.. it would have been great to hear what I’m guessing you could hear ?
mostly telling me to behave
curious to know if it was standard Rfactor 2 they were using or just the Rfactor engine with their own tyre model and physics?
Great content, lovely to have a proper driver giving in depth mature analysis on something simracing related. Refreshing to find on youtube!
its what we call hexapod 9dof motion, and engine effects are called haptic affects
I had the G923 with the True Break pedal mod for the break pedal. Now uograded to a Moza R9 and still cannot beat my previous times. Starting to regret not keeping my little budget rig. Force feed back is obviously a lot more but it does not equal faster.
13:55 Sounds like you're talking about the iRacing tyre model . . . all kinds of grip until you try to do anything with slip angle . . . then nothing. I wouldn't lump all sims with iRacing. I would actually put iRacing in a class by itself (and that's not necessarily a good thing). Give AMS1 or AC another go. 💖💜💙
dream setup right there
5 pieces sold. So basically 5 F1 or other top level teams have one in their factory? ;-)
Would love to have 2,5 milion lying around. Until then I'll do with the 'you can't go wrong' setup. Still fun 🙂
Awesome video mate. How's the full size wheel feel compared to the Sim wheels?
It's good
I thought the Stig was gonna compare his lap-times in this massive sim vs a G29 just to see how much difference it makes ;)
Stig! Just found your channel!
Welcome!
logitech boys unite!!! g29 for years. direct drive some day ? maybe
An insane rig
I started with a G29, over 18mths modded it to the tilt, it was great. Another 18mths later, and about $8-10k later, updated the rig again lol
Lolz
Imagine being in work minding you're business, when you look up and see this legend walking round having a look around😁.
All that wire bundled up under there giving every electrician anxiety 🤣
Damn
Here I am using my thrustmaster t300 thinking I’m Colin McRae 😅
Present day Colin McRae? I perform much the same
BETTER than that 2.5 millon dollar rig. Is the drag tag set up from Australia that you can put ANY car on a rolling dyno with a screen in font of you alot like the wrap a round screen with that 2 million rig. Emagine putting your favorite F-1 CAR ON this rig. It would be louder and waaay more realistic. Jay leno put his yellow corvette on this rig back in 2011. There's video of this on the internet somewhere. Might be on you tube. Might wanna see if there still in business in 2024. Hopefully you can try this out.
This kid has potential. I think one day, he would drive a real car on track 🤔
I must of done a 1000 laps of spa on RR3, (not played in about 5 years), but that last corner can always catch you out.
from a very low budget simrig to the top 🙂
Snapped your table mounted steering wheels!? Really going for it then, Ben? So funny haha
Always!
Next video ‘How to hit the apex’? 😂 I thought you were initially not aggressive enough on the turn in to Eau Rouge (not running the hatching enough), but you changed that in the second half of the video and stopped crashing 😊
Ben, you have a gaming channel?! SAY LESS, I'M HERE FOR IT!
I want to see this thing connected to BeamNG and their floaty old school road cars going over rough roads. Or the trophy truck.