How to flatten the back of a chisel or plane iron.
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- Опубліковано 13 жов 2024
- Your chisel won't work properly if the back isn't flat. Here I show how to get a perfectly flat and polished back. Works on plane irons too.
#chrisonsharpening
#toolsharpening
Thanks for all the tips. Was able to get my chisels razor sharp, with proper angles etc..., for the first time ever. Actually recovered a chisel that I thought was pretty much damaged beyond repair. It's now in perfect condition! Thanks again!!
Good advice. Like a lot of things in the trade I have adapted over the years. For more years than I remember I made do with one stone a Norton combination that I made a coffin box at College and still have it along with a replacement stone same ilk but not used. Now I have Diamond stone combination 350/1000, Water stones 3000/7000. I still use sandpaper from time to time and stopped free hand and went over to a Veritas Mk II along with some its attachments especially in narrow chisel honing. Tried a few honing guides from cheap to dear and settled on the one mentioned. Again like a lot of things in Wood tools it is down to preference and how you want your tools to be. My journeyman and other old Joiners would be amused at what goes on now as best practice a Norton combination done their needs and grit choice was not a big part of sharpening, it was to get an edge that did not chip or loose its hone. Its been like that back to the first person who cut wood and needed to fashion it.
I found this very helpful, good to know the whys as well as the hows. Thank you. All the best.
An older video, but still as helpful. I’ve been using 3M lapping film for a while now and it really is superb, but I feel the added benefit of wet and dry sandpaper to lap the back seems like more of a benefit too. Definitely going to use this method in the future. Thanks 🙏
Very informative presentation. Clearly explained. Will employ these techniques on my chisels.
Best video on lapping chisels I have seen. I certainly appreciate the tips, especially on the smaller chisels. I would have approached the process in the same way as the larger chisels. After viewing this video and with a little practice of course, I feel I can achieve the results I have want.
Thanks for the kind words Tim.
excellent video, straight forward and clear. thanks!
Very helpful, thank you so much, for removing the mystery around the subject :)
Very well explained. Thank you.
I'm glad it's helped Peter.
Great vid yet again! Thanks for the info Chris 👍🏻
best flatening video ive seen by far. ive been trying to use sand paper to flaten a really out of flat chisel but the sand paper wears out unevenly and then puts the chisel out of flat just in a differrent shape any ideas on what i can do about that?
Thanks for the compliment David. What sort of abrasive are you using? Is it just sandpaper or perhaps silicon carbide wet and dry? I think plain sandpaper would wear quickly, wet and dry would last longer but I find 3m microfinishing film best if a bit more expensive. Often flattening a chisel with a convex back can be very difficult because it will tend to rock on the curve so never getting flat. You have to try to work a flat at one end of the curve then extend it back. Bear in mind that we are really only interested in about 1 1/2" at the end of the chisel.
@@MrCJTribe thanks for the reply. i did some research and found out some abrassives will fracture without leaving the paper meaning its easy to make the sand paper dish/bowl out. a few sources said the silcon carbide abrassives simply break off of the paper when there finished meaning the sand paper stays flat it just cuts less quickly. i cant use anything pricey im on a budget but i did find a cold work chisel so i figured i could use that to make a hollow instead of a belly similar to machining from 60 or 70+ years ago. i tried wet dry sand paper (should have silicon carbide) and a granite surface plate and my engineers square says it working perfectly so far. i messed up so i have to start over but i should be good to go now. if i find anything usefull or think of some new method i will try to remember to share it with you just in case it helps thanks have a great day
Thank you Chris. Appreciate you taking the time to show us how to lap the back! I guess I need to setup a station similar to yours with various grits glued or stuck down. I know that as we use the abrasives it wears down their effectiveness BUT couldn’t it then be considered a slightly finer grit? Perhaps that would keep me from having to reapply a new sheet as often?
Hi Mac, abrasive is graded by the size of the particles, the particles produce scratches in the surface according to their size. As the abrasive wears out the particles lose their sharpness but do not get smaller so they will still produce the same scratches. Unfortunately you can only remove these scratches by going to a finer grit.
Thanks for an informative video. I'm a beginner at woodworking, though I'm about the same age as you. I learned a lot from this. I've seen a nice looking set of Neilsen chisels on ebay for 20 quid, and I'm tempted to buy them. What do you think of their stuff?
+ketmaniac A set of LN chisels £20! Buy them now, before anyone else sees them! Chris
+Christopher Tribe
I wish! This is Neilsen without the Lie. Different company, I think.
M
Chris, it’s been suggested to me that if I’m going to have to save up enough money to buy a decent set of chisels, I should buy the Narex brand. Since you also mentioned them here, I’d like to ask if you feel they would also be able to be used for doing dovetails?
Hi Mac, apologies for the delay in replying. Narex are a good economy brand of chisels. The cheapest ones are their basic bevel edged set, these have quite a thick side profile which may limit their usefulness for dovetailing. The more expensive cabinetmakers set have a more refined profile which make them better for dovetailing, these may be better if you can afford them. I mention the profile of chisels in my beginners tools video.
There are also the cheap chisels sold by the German super markets such as Aldi and Lidl (do you get Aldi and Lidl in the US) which Paul Sellers recommends.
Awsome, thank you!
Great video. A quick, noob question - since 40 microns is equivalent to roughly 350 grit, shouldn't it go before rather than after the 400 grit abrasive?
Hi Marc Thanks for the comment. Not a noob question at all. In fact there is an inconsistency there. Actually 400 grit is more or less the same as 40 microns, give or take a gnats whisker (yet another unit of measurement!). So yes I should perhaps have progressed from 400 to the 30 or 15 microns, the 40 microns didn't not achieve much.
Why do you think it is necessary to start with 80grit on a new chisel, I would expect the machining to be closer to 180grit, it seems counter intuitive
It's not so much to do with the scratch pattern as the flatness. Fair enough on a new Lie Neilsen or other up market tool which will be pretty flat you could start with a finer grit but many new chisels are not particularly flat so you need a courser grit to achieve flatness quickly. It doesn't take long to work through the grits once you have achieved the initial flatness.
Where did you get the abrasive strips on your sheet of glass? Any links? Thanks!
Hi, In the video I am using silicon carbide wet and dry abrasive. It's stuck to the class using Spray Mount from 3M. This is a repositionable contact adhesive. I like Soray Mount even though it is pricey because it gives a nice even film with no lumps when sprayed and is repositionable. Another option is another 3M product - Micro finishing film. This is a self adhesive film impregnated with abrasive. It's more expensive than wet and dry but cuts better and lasts longer. I get it in the UK from www.workshopheaven.com/3m-micro-finishing-film-50-micron-ao-psa.html The grade is specified in microns so the greater the number the courser the abrasive. I use 100 microns through to 9 microns in about five steps.
I have an old 1 1/2 inch I'm trying to restore. Flattening it is a bear since it appears to be curving up at the edge. In other words holding a straight edge to it, shows a 1/2mm gap at the edge. Do you recommend just grinding it shorter at the edge or flattening it as much as possible? Some of both?
Blades that are convex across the width are a real pain to flatten as thre is a tendency for them to rock on the high spot as you work them. Is it curved across the whole width or just rounded over at the edges? If it's just rounded at the edges you could grind this off, not something I have ever done I must admit. If it's curved across the whole width it will involve a lot of work to flatten it. You would need to apply pressure at one side so a flat is formed to one side of the blade, this can then be extended across with a few hours work! You could use quite a course grit wet and dry 60 or 80 perhaps.
It probably got the curvature from sharpening on a non flat stone over many years
Good luck with that!
Chris Tribe Yes, along the width. But, lengthwise too. Almost like a small ski ramp at the edge as you go lengthwise toward the bevel (just the last two mm in length). . I'm thinking to just hollow grind out the middle part to get rid of the widthwise concavity, and then grind off the edge to eliminat that little upward slope. I don't see any other option. Then, I'd go through the sandpaper. Or just throw it out...lol!
You could just grind the end as you say. Hollow grinding could be tricky, I admit I have not tried. You will have to ue a very light touch, although the curvature may appear large it is probably only a few thou. Please let me know how you get on with it.
@@MrCJTribe Ward chisels have the "chopped out with a pastry cutter " shape along the edges.They are like that from new.Rubbing down the back with a dremel sanding drum is a good way to save hours . Get a few inches clear from the blade edge .Leave the edge1/4 inch alone and then flatten as in the video .Or add a micro bevel with a thin ruler under the handle end . Use the full length for that . Then ---you find many chisels have a built in Twist . Dremels will help with that too .Diagonally opposite shiny spots will show you what to do . Time to test that and make a new video for old Sheffield blades .Good fun but not too laborious .
Hi are you just using water on the wet and dry or solution?
Cheers
Mark
Hi Mark
Yes, it's just water. If you want to flatten an oil stone you can use paraffin.
Thanks so to flatten an oil or water stone do you just go about it in the same way of grinding it down on various sand paper grits?
Thanks
markblue777 Actually I've got my videos mixed up! I have another video on flattening a water stone or oil stone. The technique is very similar, the stone flattening vid is here How to flatten water stones.
ah thanks alot
is the iron on a Stanley 78 sharpened in the same way a chisel is with two angles or with the single angle?
Hi Clarence, I would sharpen it with a primary and secondary bevel as shown here.
Christopher Tribe Thank you and greetings from Oklahoma. Cheers!
I bought some chisels and one of them was convex it has taken me hours to work on and still isn't flat because my highest grit stone is 600 diamond 😟
I would recommend using an abrasive stuck to glass, I use 3M spray mount to stick it. You could use aluminium oxide or slicone carbide wety and dry abrasives. For some plane blades I go down to 60 grit but you may eb OK with around 120 grit. Then you have to work your way up to close to 600, then you can go back to the diamond stone.
It can be very difficul;t to get a convex surface flat using this method as the tool tend to rock on the high spot. You have to encourage it to sit in one position on the abrasive
How do you tell if your chisel is concave or convex. Seems to me that dull marks I’m center (scratches) would mean it’s convex but internet suggests otherwise?
Narex Standard vs Premium. Are the handles the only diffeence?
Did some research... No, they differ in profile as well. But! The ones Christopher has are neither of those. They are called classic.
While we're at it, could anyone testify on their edge retention? I personally doubt the Kirschen/Two cherries chisels price being 2-2.5 times higher compared to Narex is justified. In the fine woodworking magazine 200 they both brands rated 'good' in edge retention. I would really appreciate a second opinion.
Tome4kkk is right the profile on the premium (cabinetmakers) chisels is slimmer as shown here (if the link works) i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp60/mr-tpics/IMG_02601.jpg the premium is on the left.
The hardness is the same but the slimmer profile makes them better for delicate work like dovetailing. The one being worked on in the vid is the standard type. I also think the premium ones feel better in the hand.
They are both hardened to RC59. The Kirschen ones are harder at 61, but I'm no expert on that sort of thing. If it only takes 30 seconds to sharpen a chisel then hardness is not such an issue in my opinion. Sometimes I find too hard a tool is a pain to sharpen, you can never find the burr.
There seem to be another model. Handles like on yours but with blade profile like on premium, available from lee valley I believe. Yet, Narex themselves don't have them on their website. I queried them about the subject but haven't heard from them.
BTW, I made a 16x40 mm mortise recently using a 12 mm low bevel sides chisel. I found it to be digging in too much into the adjacent wall (laterally) when I was trying to correct the 16 mm wall. Was it my blatant mishandling or is it natural and needs to be controlled? The fibers ran along the 40 mm side. It was a black locust mallet head, well over 15% of moisture.
Hi. I'm not sure how to answer your question because you seem to cut your mortices differently to me. Whenever I mortice I always make the mortice the width of the chisel I will be using. So for your mortice 16mm wide I would use a 16mm chisel. Perhaps if I only had a 5/8" chisel which was a bit off 16mm I would set the mortice gauge to that chisel. I would then use just that chisel to chop the mortice. Paring the side of the mortice is a capital offence, I want the mortice to be exactly the width of the chisel.
Obviously for huge mortices such as used on timber framed buildings a different approach would be used, but for anything under 3/4"/19mm I would use the method above.
Chris
Another person assuming float glass is flat. It isn't. Nothing claimed to be flat without being properly measured as to exactly how flat it is, is bogus.
Fair point. However the concept of flatness is relative depending on what instrument you have to measure it with. As far as I'm concerned 10mm float glass is flat enough for flattening the small area of a chisel or plane blade back. For flattening plane soles which have a larger area I check for flatness using a a registered straight edge and feeler guage because I know that over a larger are the glass can sag if the surface it is on is not perfectly flat.
Sorry. Don't know anything about Neilsen without the Lie chisels.
You just ruined the video at the end saying "once in a lifetime"you need to flatten the back.How about Japanese chisels that have a deliberate hollow to allow for the fresh flattening and also to prevent any rocking.The Japanese do not align their chisel backs with the handles either . So making a very slight micro bevel on the back of western chisels is miles closer than a Japanese chisel .Chisels are not planes and the backs will always wear down just like the bevel . Show how you flatten a back that is not already hollowed.