$6-8B over 10 years is nothing for an economy like India (especially if you're finally going to get solid jet engine tech), and picking France for these types of strategic projects/purchases is an absolute no-brainer. Sign a mega-deal with them for local production of a 100+ Rafales (IAF and Navy joint order), engine cooperation, a larger number of submarines than currently agreed, and also see if they're interested in selling LHDs/LPDs for the Navy.
@@Sh.Sk15because if they do not help now(and get some reward in return), India will develop it indigenously. So they will lose the reward, if they do not help now, but they will face competition in future...
If there is a war with China and/or Pakistan, India is a sitting duck. Thanks to our Babus whose only moto is ‘No Decision During My Tenure’ like their mentor AK Anthony who said ‘There can be no corruption if there is no decision or purchase’
@@krishnapillai2595 The afterburning version of the Kaveri is a decent 4th-gen engine comparable to the older versions of the GE-F404, all be it slightly heavier, it should have ideally been used in a twin-engine version of the Tejas
Don’t worry if our airforce fails Pakistanis would occupy our land and sell our daughters to Chinese . Let them eat rice and relax while our independence is getting increasingly at stake
Sorry Nitin but you are factually wrong! GE404 deal has been signed but the supplies delayed leading to delays in Tejas-MkIA rollout. GE414 cost negotiations are yet to get underway and hence, no deal has been signed. The discussions with the 3 OEMs for a brand new engine development are also going on in true Indian style. The public these days is far more aware than before therefore, we are quite sick and tired hearing the same stories that are basically narrations of irresponsible, incompetent people in India beating around the bush ceaselessly at the cost of national security. The manner of discussions in the Indian strategic circles suggests that India has zero threats. So a new engine will be developed and then a combat jet. The cows will surely be back home by then! This episode has not shed any new light on what is a truly stale topic.
Indian genrails and MOD babus are only good at jumlabazi.. 😅 They lack basic common sense.. These quota Babus are the real security threat not Pakistanis or Chinese
@@manofsanThe video sounded very optimistic, but we all know how the things have moved under even this supposedly nationalist government which blames everything on the past government, but is sleeping on major projects since last 11 years. And everyone is sick and tired of this endless drama at the cost of national security. This is the main difference if you didn't realise.
Yes, China has started producing its own fighter jet engines. The country has made significant investments in developing its own engines, and has equipped its J-20 stealth fighter jet with domestically produced engines.
@@youyuanguan7230 no bro i am not saying this i am totally against the pace of r&d in our country but if you have some technical knowledge in jet engineering go through the chinese jet engines they were soviet copied ones which they develop into chinese ones, still china has its own not that much capable of us and france levels. but china can achieve in later years.
It's better to have few engines rather having no engine at all..reverse engineering has to be done by Indians if we want to develop by ourselves.. No one is going to give jet engine with technology transfer to you on plate
IIT is an academic college , Its very basic that they won't have military expertise , Its more of budget and prioritization which is needed by Defense to make the engine
I thought we are close already with the Kavari engine the engine works since the 90s all we need was the special alloys for the hot part of the engine ( which wev had for 2 years )to make the engine more powerfull ,,and wev already made those alloys and we are also going to test the engine on a Russian aircraft any day now so what are you on about 10/15 years India will have its own Engine next year
Solution make a consortium of GTRE, TASL, L&T, Brahmos Aerospace, DG Propulsions alongwith ISRO AND IIT's as technical consultants for refining KAVERI ENGINE. I don't know why not government is doing this.
This will not work. ISRO expertise is different. IITs are fit for nothing. Mere lecturing orvchurning out papers. DRDO is disappointed a lot with IITs.
How is this going to help? All these company do design and some manufacturing, that too civil. We want precision manufacturing and higher end metalurgy research.Non of the above company except GTRE/ISRO is capable. In this MIDANI (Mishra Dhatu Nigam Limited) , CSIR-National Metallurgical Laboratory,BARC etc are expertised.
When mmrca tender was out, I was maybe 12-13 yrs old, child, excited about the possibilities and hoping no more pilots will die flying MiG21, passed school, passed college, passed medical school, married, gonna have kids soon and the deal is still not done. Indian policy at its best. “Pakode talte reh gye sab, ab phir pakode talenge”. I can confidently say, they’ll debate on which partner to choose for 20-25 years more(tab tak toh mai buddha ho jaunga). Save us the time, buy SU 57s from Russia with the new AL 51f1 engines, at least the air force will have something against the 300+ J20s in china’s active service.
Canada (Pratt and Whitney Canada) and Japan (MHI, IHI) can make aeroengines as well, less well known and not at same scale, but they can make world class engines.
How many engineering colleges in India have the necessary teaching resources to educate students on the fundamentals of a fighter engine? Additionally, how many students are specializing in this field? It's important to note that creating a fighter engine isn't something that can be achieved by simply reciting a Vedic mantra.
What kind of resource required for an engineering college to teach the fundamentals of a jet engine ? Its very easy to make a minified figheter jet engine.The fundamental design of a jet engine is very easy. Challenge is making it run for long,for that the internal mettalurgy of components plus the high end manufacturing process of the same.Both cant be achieved in any engineering colleges, but either by doing lot of allied R&D which require time and money or by an industry which has a history making such low/medium end components.Both we dont have, we tried to pump money on research, we gained some knowledge.Pls dont simply anything and everything with vedic matra, it may just give you likes, but nothing to do with fact.
Sir, we don't look serious in doing this. If this is so difficult, our effort seems mediocre. If you don't have the testing facilities, flying test bed. A sufficient budget and industry and combined research institutions all need to be involved. Until you have your own engine, you will never be independent. Engine for ships, heavy vehicles, and tanks are all a problem.
It is past time for CAG to decouple from the national mission of acquiring next-generation aircraft engines or to liberalize auditing. Their scathing remarks and reprimand of the established frugal approach will further erode the DRDO's confidence. R&D budgets and timelines cannot be capped or fixed, but the PMO can monitor them directly. We can no longer put off the collaboration with Safran of France, GE Aerospace, or RR to develop new generation engines. The risk exists, but we do not have a choice right now. Thank you for bringing this up to help expedite the national mission. Hopefully, your words will ring a bell in the incumbent's ears without further delay.
मुकाबला इतना तगड़ा है कि तीन प्रतियोगी इतने होशियार हैं कि चौथे प्रतियोगी को बनाने में मदद कर रहे हैं! वैसे, जिस तरह भारतीय रक्षा और बाबू लोग सोचते हैं, हो सकता है कि अगली बार UPSC खुद ही एक जेट इंजन बना दे!
We have the capability within our DRDO and GTRE scientists. We should involve Pvt Defence Industries also to the Aerospace Engineering sector to manufacturing provided TOT remains with DRDO and GTRE. Jai Hind Jai Bharat 🇮🇳
We need competition in this space. I am sorry to say, the pace of HAL & DRDO combine is simply too slow. LCA started in 1983. Look at the state we are in today. I understand the budget part, but that does not fully explain these delays. There is simply no accountability. Just remember we have been ruled by foreigners for 1000 years, because we could not technological and tactically compete. If we can't keep up with China and Pakistan, we will again be chained. Without hard power and technological progress we are doomed.
Despite such a long time invested in developing a kaveri engine, we could have divided the total work of development into three parts to understand the importance of certain points in the journey of developing it so as to master each and every aspect of development at all the points.
Two important points were not covered in the video 1. Would the collaboration be on further development of Kaveri engine or would it be something totally different from scratch. If it is former than it would be much better as India would not only be able to complete the old project but would also learn where it was going wrong. But I suspect that would not be the case. 2. What is the thrust this collaboration would be targeting.
What were they doing for the last 30 years ( besides making excuses like "there are only a handful of countries making jet engines) ? Why could you not be that handful?
GTRE can obtain solutions to its problems through open forums!! If GTRE will make its problems public, it will also obtain the solutions for it from the public forum!! The challenge for single crystal blade casting is one such problem where suggestions have been made to GTRE on the public forum. One such suggestion was the use of electrical induction furnace casting to obtain a single crystal blade!! Traditional casting methods can't maintain the critical parameters of the casting environment..
Work with all three and on different models. NAL also should take on more aircraft design and manufacturing roles. Just reliance on HAL is a lost case.
India shuld make 2 engine In parallel competition with RR and snecma So that in the end after spending decads no one could failed us completely To rely on one project can push us on dead end if any partner cheat us
it is suggested India and saffron should collaborate in developing the high power aero engine for our futuristic fighter planes.Ameicans r not to be trusted accordi
Indian Air Force approach is naively idealistic, and it is severely hindering development and testing of Indigenous engine and aircraft development whereas Chinese are more pragmatic and have started developing and testing the engine. While Rafale 's M88-2 engine has maximum dry thrust of 50 kN and 73 kN with afterburner while its dry weight is 897 kg. Two such engines power the Rafale aircraft with a maximum take-off weight of 24.5 tons and maximum external payload capacity of 9.5 tons On the other hand Kaveri engine in 2022 in its high-altitude tests in Russia produced a dry thrust of 46 kN and wet thrust of 70.5 kN. In 18 June 2024, CAG report noted that the weight of engine has been reduced to 1,180 kg. I just compared it above with state of art M88-2 engine and it looks quite comparable. The area Kaveri needs improvement is in the weight ( 283 kg higher) 3) However, considering that Rafale maximum take of weight of Rafale of 24.5 Tons and maximum external payload capacity of 9.5 tons this weight is just 3% of maximum payload.
Even if make a deal they are string attached. Get a high altitude testing facility. And a aircraft testing for evaluation. Get the private industry involved. ..matter of time ... results will show. Without testing facility we are not going anywhere.
When India can make cryogenic engines for rockets why can't jet engines for fighter planes. We can do it with proper involvement of private and public sector.
India should and must join with France. Along with jet engines, teach, we can get so much intellectual property from France which USA or UK doesn't offer. Second is USA is not at all reliable but france is Third is USA is not offering 100% tot but france offering
We need market competitive and performance oriented HR policy to produse best results and strengthen armed forces. For eg.. Contract Worker may b hardly motivated to produse the best items
Do you think corruption in military allow any Indian equipment grow. They will run when war Start. Corruption in military is the biggest hurdle for modernization
In longer run we want our own Made in Engine but for short per goal, we need to tie up with France for joint venture for development of engine with equal IP share. US you can't trust.
There is some news that India is developing passenger aircraft. Should we buy whole of embrare company instead of developing new passanger aircraft. We can get our hands on military cargo aircraft as well as passenger aircraft.
Why would anybody provide a potential competitor a critical part like aero derivative engine to wash their hands from multi billions of business? When you have LCA for cheaper and cost effective solution with US engine; Lockheed Martin, Boeing et al would lobby US congress to delay and derail Indian engine manufacturing effort. If Indians were smart they would have an interchangeable all of above enginee working with manufacturers like GE, RR, Safran et al.
HAL is pretty leggard in manufacturing process. The issue is now more then 40 years old. The government needs to work now very swiftly for the engines. Cooperation with France is very logical and government don't know why takes so much time. France is ready to cooperate in every way for the production. It is plainly negligence , stupidity.......not to act fast.
In the year 2032, China would be readying its 7ᵗʰ generation (seventh Gen) aircrafts. Meanwhile, Indians would be worried about the topic ---- अरे! ये शुभमन Gill और सारा तेंदुलकर शादी क्यूँ नहीं कर रहे हैं? Sara तेन्दुलकर
1. The supply of GE f404 has been delayed. 2. Contract for f414 hasn't been signed yet, they are asking a higher price for TOT. 3. India is looking for a partnership for engines for LCA MK2 and AMCA MK 1. This is most likely unrelated to the GE F-414 bcoz it doesn't allow super cruise. In general GE engines don't allow for Supercruise. 4. Safran has backtracked on the investments they promised with the purchase of 36 Rafale. 5. India will probably wait for a recession to hit Europe especially France and UK to finalise the engine deal, they will be squeezed for cashflows in about a year or two so we might get better terms.
The most important part of an aircraft is it's engine, and only 2-3 countries in the world make it. It's very complicated to make, comprises of 40000 parts and forms about 60% of the entire aircraft. Without engine supply from US not even a single Tejas mark-1A could be inducted to air force. And none of these 2-3 countries will give full ToT of the engines. Take example of our dearest friend Russia, even after 40 years of collab, we still don't have full technology of Su-30 engines and still have to buy its spares from Russia. The foreign collaborators make a lot of promises but they don't even fulfill half of them. Take example of offset clause of Rafales that Dassault needs to invest a certain amount in India, not even half of it is invested. So even if they promise full ToT we will never get them. Reason : India's dependancy on these countries will ensure regular flow of huge cash. And delivery of these spares, maintenance are mostly delayed (90% of time) so we might not get them at the time of need. If we want to increase the production rate of our fighters at the time of need, we won't be able to do it without the engine OEMs increasing their production at the same rate. Eg. News of GE's F-404 production rate not as much as that needed by Tejas. Lastly, in situations of war, global supply chain issues and high demand of engines from multiple countries on these 2-3 countries, there will be further delays. So even 5% dependance on these 2-3 countries for engines could become a huge issue for us. There is not so much issue with other equipments like radar, avionics, missiles etc. because we can get them from 20 more countries and we can even make them in Bharat as they are not as complicated to make as the engines. A turbofan engine for fighters involve around 40000 parts and comprise around 60% of aircraft. These facts can be easily verified in internet, if anyone has doubts. So these are among the most important reasons why we need to be 100% self reliant on jet engine tech to be able to increase our squadron strength by ourselves. We should place an order for fighter jets from foreign countries for now, as its an emergency for us now, but if we want to be able to win wars (which is likely considering neighbours like Pakistan and China), we will able to do it only if we are able to make equipments by ourselves. So the GoI immediately needs to : 1. Place an order for at least 4 squadrons of fighters (4.5 gen is also fine because 5th gens are scarce and procuring them will take more time which we dont have). No make in India clause as that will also take much more time ! 2. Form a team for engine development including most talented engineers and scientists from all institutes and private sector for the redevelopment of Kaveri core, and it's weight reduction (afterburner already taken by Brahmos), so that we at least are able to make a 90kN engine that can power our Tejas mark-1A. And this team will directly report to the PMO, just like ISRO (no bureaucracy hurdles). We need a team from all institutes because we cannot depend on just GTRE (DRDO) now because it has failed to deliver Kaveri even after taking 20 years of time, half a billion dollars of funding and full support in testing facilities. 3. After this team completes development of 90kN Kaveri for Tejas mark-1A, they can start with the new programme of 110kN engine for Tejas mark-2 and AMCA. This approach IS THE ONLY FASTEST AND SAFEST way of developing engines. We should never think that foreign collabs will make the development faster, because of the above reasons. We might be misguided and assistance might be delayed by foreign partners as well, which is very common. We need to make our foundation strong first, especially in such complicated technologies. A foreign collab could be opted for enhancing design and efficiency but only after a good progress in the above mentioned programmes are achieved. 4. Similarly, we can also move the Tejas mark-2 and AMCA under the PMO for faster development as these are equally critical and urgent !
Suggestion: The video quality and content are excellent, deserving 10k views per video easily, like a cakewalk. However, your channel's views are quite low, around 800-900 views. Please consider shifting to Hindi rather than English. Please think about it...
I have always had this strong feeling that India was made to sign this deal with GE under some external pressure. I don't have any evidence to back this theory, but the way the entire deal was signed by sidelining other better and reliable options like Saffran and the way the opposition (read Congress) chose to remain completely silent (given their history of crying corruption in every large defence deal signed by Modi govt.) gives me a feeling that it was stage managed by someone very powerful and influential.
USA and UK equipment is falling apart. We want to be made in india double engines in our fighter jet, both for the airforce as well as the Navy. We don't need help from the USA. Big bullies will put pressure to compromise. Everyone will try to take advantage, the point is which deals are a good need to select.
The problem with India's engine development is that the Indian government does not understand what the knowhow and intellectual property involved in engine development actually is. It is not actually difficult to design the physical engine itself - there are finite element and fluid dynamics analysis tools to assist with the design, and the principles are well known. What is difficult and constitutes the secret sauce that is difficult is the metallurgy/materials technology and manufacturing/fabrication techniques that is always developing and that is required to produce cutting edge engines. These are also developed primarily by trial and error or iterative and repetitive testing to find and optimise alloy compositions, heat treatment processes, fabrication methods, coating materials etc. and . It is a similar situation to areas in which India is a laggard such as semiconductor fabrication, and previously laggard eg. radar, nuclear technology, missiles, space etc. - basically there is a need to fund long term research organisations in academia and fundamental research and development programmes into materials technology and fabrication technology and testing labs labs and equipment within organisations like IIT and DRDO, instead of imagining you can produce a one off engine within a short time by a private company with no prior experience. Engine development is fundamentally progressive world wide - materials, fabrication technology and assemblies are primarily developed by trying something out, testing it either as a component or in a test engine, and making incremental improvements, every engine is based on a previous core and previous materials which are improved to achieve small improvements that add up to a lot over time. You cannot do this without the necessary research and development institutions and their staff, and the test equipment to do all the testing in place. This is what is badly lacking in India at the moment.
More than 40 years have gone, and more than 20000 cr of Indian public money has gone for the project and still India yawns for Indian made jet engine. That is the talent.
My point is the current Kaveri Engine tests which were being conducted in Russia, The whole administration is silent. When I compare the Kaveri version being tested, the volume, dry thrust & wet thrust. With 3 years of work it will beat the GE variant. This one can go north of 130kN of wet thrust easily. So why are we not manufacturing more test prototypes ? How many assembly lines and equipment branches do we need to get this done ? That's where we should work. Sale deeds and agreements to buy this and that, it's a continuous process for all nations. So where is the information in that ?
@andrewlim7751 Good for the Chinese I guess. Do you know how many compression stages are there in the Kaveri latest variant ? How much thrust per kilogram is needed for super cruise capability ? What's the weight of the GE engine I am discussing ? India manufactures Russian Jet Engines and we have improved the design and service hours for those engines too. But they are built as a joint venture under a license. We are talking about making a new engine and testing it; when we discuss reverse engineering and making a knock off which gives out black soot in exhaust stage. When we talk about it, you can weigh in.
With due respect to the scientific community...we have still not developed a good truck/bus engine..Tata outsources them from Cummins, Ashok Leyland from Hino...Aircraft and ships are to far..This is not to demoralize any one but it's the truth.
Select Safran from France. Other two (US and UK) are totally unreliable as defence is concerned. We can trade software services, jasmine flowers and mangoes with these two
Some body said, "actions matter, words don't" . They needed 11 years to make this announcement
Even thinking of making such an engine despite the presence of notorious Indian bureaucracy is a big deal?.
After eating
They have a nice saying “befitting response”, scared..
RSS-BJ Party is funded by Jinnah family , why they will allow India to develop own engine. They have destroyed India without firing a single bullet
China always value action, and they took 40 years including 10s of billions burned. 😁😁
$6-8B over 10 years is nothing for an economy like India (especially if you're finally going to get solid jet engine tech), and picking France for these types of strategic projects/purchases is an absolute no-brainer. Sign a mega-deal with them for local production of a 100+ Rafales (IAF and Navy joint order), engine cooperation, a larger number of submarines than currently agreed, and also see if they're interested in selling LHDs/LPDs for the Navy.
💯
Why would a company/organisation help others in developing a competition for them??
@@Sh.Sk15because if they do not help now(and get some reward in return), India will develop it indigenously. So they will lose the reward, if they do not help now, but they will face competition in future...
@@Sh.Sk15
yup, makes no sense.
handing over bags of money to a foreign country will not advance Indian R&D.
If anything, that will do the opposite.
True
We indians are only talking , notjing happening on ground
If there is a war with China and/or Pakistan, India is a sitting duck. Thanks to our Babus whose only moto is ‘No Decision During My Tenure’ like their mentor AK Anthony who said
‘There can be no corruption if there is no decision or purchase’
I hope so because we're in deep trouble without our own engine
Not really. Kavery can still be used in smaller-thrust applications such as the Ghatak drones.
@@krishnapillai2595 The afterburning version of the Kaveri is a decent 4th-gen engine comparable to the older versions of the GE-F404, all be it slightly heavier, it should have ideally been used in a twin-engine version of the Tejas
@@ArupRatanMitrabrother what other option we have ?
Don’t worry if our airforce fails Pakistanis would occupy our land and sell our daughters to Chinese . Let them eat rice and relax while our independence is getting increasingly at stake
Sorry Nitin but you are factually wrong! GE404 deal has been signed but the supplies delayed leading to delays in Tejas-MkIA rollout. GE414 cost negotiations are yet to get underway and hence, no deal has been signed. The discussions with the 3 OEMs for a brand new engine development are also going on in true Indian style. The public these days is far more aware than before therefore, we are quite sick and tired hearing the same stories that are basically narrations of irresponsible, incompetent people in India beating around the bush ceaselessly at the cost of national security. The manner of discussions in the Indian strategic circles suggests that India has zero threats. So a new engine will be developed and then a combat jet. The cows will surely be back home by then! This episode has not shed any new light on what is a truly stale topic.
Just to be clear - how exactly did what he said differ from what you just said?
Indian genrails and MOD babus are only good at jumlabazi.. 😅
They lack basic common sense.. These quota Babus are the real security threat not Pakistanis or Chinese
@@manofsanThe video sounded very optimistic, but we all know how the things have moved under even this supposedly nationalist government which blames everything on the past government, but is sleeping on major projects since last 11 years. And everyone is sick and tired of this endless drama at the cost of national security. This is the main difference if you didn't realise.
Indian military need reforms
Indian military doesn't have any knowledge on how small cheap drones turn the war fate
Indian 'defence industry' needs reforms.
He left out that China produces its own aero engines
no if you very thorougly they are soviet copied
Yes, China has started producing its own fighter jet engines. The country has made significant investments in developing its own engines, and has equipped its J-20 stealth fighter jet with domestically produced engines.
@@Abhinavujjwal Maybe the way you denied China's technology advancements is the main reason why India become today😂
Jahind! Bro
@@youyuanguan7230 no bro i am not saying this i am totally against the pace of r&d in our country but if you have some technical knowledge in jet engineering go through the chinese jet engines they were soviet copied ones which they develop into chinese ones, still china has its own not that much capable of us and france levels. but china can achieve in later years.
@@Abhinavujjwal My indian friends, all you need to do is to google top wind tunnel and results will debunk the lies that your media fed to you.
I think America controls the numbers and timeline of Indian Air force jets by using GE. This is national security of Modi Government 🙏
After the Bangladesh episode we must know clearly what US's intentions are. Stop trusting them. They are not our friends.
It's better to have few engines rather having no engine at all..reverse engineering has to be done by Indians if we want to develop by ourselves.. No one is going to give jet engine with technology transfer to you on plate
You are confusing 2 different engine deals. It is 404 that is delayed. 414 deal is yet to be completed
Yes funding was problem, but gtre failed us. 😢
Very strange with dozens of IITa we still can't build a engine 😂
Fake merit and over boasted IQ😂😂
IIT is an academic college , Its very basic that they won't have military expertise , Its more of budget and prioritization which is needed by Defense to make the engine
They are busy in finding fuckmates for each other
Because iit dont value research, they will value btech placement so they can create valued slaves for west
@@kamartaj3010 And reservations, the biggest cancer for India.
I thought we are close already with the Kavari engine the engine works since the 90s all we need was the special alloys for the hot part of the engine ( which wev had for 2 years )to make the engine more powerfull ,,and wev already made those alloys and we are also going to test the engine on a Russian aircraft any day now so what are you on about 10/15 years India will have its own Engine next year
😂, let's check back in a year
Solution make a consortium of GTRE, TASL, L&T, Brahmos Aerospace, DG Propulsions alongwith ISRO AND IIT's as technical consultants for refining KAVERI ENGINE. I don't know why not government is doing this.
This will not work. ISRO expertise is different. IITs are fit for nothing. Mere lecturing orvchurning out papers. DRDO is disappointed a lot with IITs.
How is this going to help? All these company do design and some manufacturing, that too civil. We want precision manufacturing and higher end metalurgy research.Non of the above company except GTRE/ISRO is capable. In this MIDANI (Mishra Dhatu Nigam Limited) , CSIR-National Metallurgical Laboratory,BARC etc are expertised.
@@navan1087yours was most sensible comment here
I have a lot of respect for Nitin Gokhale. He always talks facts. No BS. Top notch reporting.
When mmrca tender was out, I was maybe 12-13 yrs old, child, excited about the possibilities and hoping no more pilots will die flying MiG21, passed school, passed college, passed medical school, married, gonna have kids soon and the deal is still not done. Indian policy at its best. “Pakode talte reh gye sab, ab phir pakode talenge”.
I can confidently say, they’ll debate on which partner to choose for 20-25 years more(tab tak toh mai buddha ho jaunga). Save us the time, buy SU 57s from Russia with the new AL 51f1 engines, at least the air force will have something against the 300+ J20s in china’s active service.
Canada (Pratt and Whitney Canada) and Japan (MHI, IHI) can make aeroengines as well, less well known and not at same scale, but they can make world class engines.
only US, France, Russian and China can make modern jet fighter engine.
@@davidz7858 Even thinking of making such an engine despite the presence of notorious Indian bureaucracy is a big deal?.
Indian military talking about reform for past 10 years how ironic...😅😅
Indian air force is the biggest 🤡🤡🤡
So the Same Companies that are Delaying
the Delivery of the Contracted Engine are
also Participating in the Development of a
Desi Engine. 🤣🤣
If the USA is dilly dallying the Aircraft Engines. Why can't our INDIA procure the Aircraft Engines from FRANCE & UK & go ahead❤🇮🇳.
How many engineering colleges in India have the necessary teaching resources to educate students on the fundamentals of a fighter engine? Additionally, how many students are specializing in this field? It's important to note that creating a fighter engine isn't something that can be achieved by simply reciting a Vedic mantra.
What kind of resource required for an engineering college to teach the fundamentals of a jet engine ? Its very easy to make a minified figheter jet engine.The fundamental design of a jet engine is very easy. Challenge is making it run for long,for that the internal mettalurgy of components plus the high end manufacturing process of the same.Both cant be achieved in any engineering colleges, but either by doing lot of allied R&D which require time and money or by an industry which has a history making such low/medium end components.Both we dont have, we tried to pump money on research, we gained some knowledge.Pls dont simply anything and everything with vedic matra, it may just give you likes, but nothing to do with fact.
great analysis ….we need more episode on this….keep it up..
Extremely useful content 💯
India should go with Safran
Nicely explained
Thanks
Sir, we don't look serious in doing this. If this is so difficult, our effort seems mediocre. If you don't have the testing facilities, flying test bed. A sufficient budget and industry and combined research institutions all need to be involved. Until you have your own engine, you will never be independent. Engine for ships, heavy vehicles, and tanks are all a problem.
It is past time for CAG to decouple from the national mission of acquiring next-generation aircraft engines or to liberalize auditing. Their scathing remarks and reprimand of the established frugal approach will further erode the DRDO's confidence. R&D budgets and timelines cannot be capped or fixed, but the PMO can monitor them directly. We can no longer put off the collaboration with Safran of France, GE Aerospace, or RR to develop new generation engines. The risk exists, but we do not have a choice right now. Thank you for bringing this up to help expedite the national mission. Hopefully, your words will ring a bell in the incumbent's ears without further delay.
मुकाबला इतना तगड़ा है कि तीन प्रतियोगी इतने होशियार हैं कि चौथे प्रतियोगी को बनाने में मदद कर रहे हैं! वैसे, जिस तरह भारतीय रक्षा और बाबू लोग सोचते हैं, हो सकता है कि अगली बार UPSC खुद ही एक जेट इंजन बना दे!
Why doesnt India hire the best INDIAN minds on 5 -8 years contract and develop its own cutting edge modern engine?
😂
The technology is a closely guarded secret, with a lack of test facilities, even these countries developed it from scientists from Germany after WW2
There are except for some a** h0les like @A123456789Z70 ⬆
Best indian mind are only interested $$$ no honor to their country just look arround world
They dont want to pay but want slaves who works for them 14hrs a day
India should have accepted Su 57 and Checkmate instead.
The Checkmate only exists on paper. The Su 57 isn't going to do anything against the J-20.
We have the capability within our DRDO and GTRE scientists. We should involve Pvt Defence Industries also to the Aerospace Engineering sector to manufacturing provided TOT remains with DRDO and GTRE.
Jai Hind Jai Bharat 🇮🇳
We need competition in this space. I am sorry to say, the pace of HAL & DRDO combine is simply too slow. LCA started in 1983. Look at the state we are in today. I understand the budget part, but that does not fully explain these delays. There is simply no accountability. Just remember we have been ruled by foreigners for 1000 years, because we could not technological and tactically compete. If we can't keep up with China and Pakistan, we will again be chained. Without hard power and technological progress we are doomed.
India needs to get their act together in developing their own engine very soon..reduce dependency
Good informative video. Hope the deals go through asap without much politics 🙏🏻
A lot of gas. I suppose it is necessary for gas turbine research?
I am extremely confident that Bharathyia Scientists can pull of powerful aero engines sooner than later.
Thanks 🙏🏻
We will keep talking about getting a indiginous engine and MMRCA fighter jets even in 2050....
Ya, even Pakistan is planning to go for full 5th Gen fleet by 2040. We are here planning for Tejas mark 2 induction for by 2050… lol😂😂😂
@@manjugoku6206 Oh, Pakistan has created Aircraft Engine which has 120kN Thrust.
Despite such a long time invested in developing a kaveri engine, we could have divided the total work of development into three parts to understand the importance of certain points in the journey of developing it so as to master each and every aspect of development at all the points.
Two important points were not covered in the video
1. Would the collaboration be on further development of Kaveri engine or would it be something totally different from scratch. If it is former than it would be much better as India would not only be able to complete the old project but would also learn where it was going wrong. But I suspect that would not be the case.
2. What is the thrust this collaboration would be targeting.
What were they doing for the last 30 years ( besides making excuses like "there are only a handful of countries making jet engines) ? Why could you not be that handful?
Easy to say as an outsider, maybe think for a second and understand why only these countries have this technology and others don't.
Good news for the country.🎉🎉🎉🎉
Gokhale, who told you that Tejas needs 100 kn engine? What rubbish are you talking? Even GE414 doesn't generate 100 kn.
Why you are not telling about recent Kaveri enhanced thrust achievements and kaveri-X newly designed engine.
GTRE can obtain solutions to its problems through open forums!! If GTRE will make its problems public, it will also obtain the solutions for it from the public forum!!
The challenge for single crystal blade casting is one such problem where suggestions have been made to GTRE on the public forum. One such suggestion was the use of electrical induction furnace casting to obtain a single crystal blade!!
Traditional casting methods can't maintain the critical parameters of the casting environment..
Wonder why Saab Gripen is not in consideration?
Work with all three and on different models. NAL also should take on more aircraft design and manufacturing roles. Just reliance on HAL is a lost case.
Very informative
India shuld make 2 engine In parallel competition with RR and snecma
So that in the end after spending decads no one could failed us completely
To rely on one project can push us on dead end if any partner cheat us
Us refuses to sell engines, India can buy from China, which has already surpassed US engines
I think India should go with France since Tejas are also mixture of mirage 5 and 2000.
Wild goose chase in a hall of mirrors over India's🏃🏃🏃fighter jet requirements.
it is suggested India and saffron should collaborate in developing the high power aero engine for our futuristic fighter planes.Ameicans r not to be trusted accordi
I❤india
Indian Air Force approach is naively idealistic, and it is severely hindering development and testing of Indigenous engine and aircraft development whereas Chinese are more pragmatic and have started developing and testing the engine.
While Rafale 's M88-2 engine has maximum dry thrust of 50 kN and 73 kN with afterburner while its dry weight is 897 kg. Two such engines power the Rafale aircraft with a maximum take-off weight of 24.5 tons and maximum external payload capacity of 9.5 tons
On the other hand Kaveri engine in 2022 in its high-altitude tests in Russia produced a dry thrust of 46 kN and wet thrust of 70.5 kN. In 18 June 2024, CAG report noted that the weight of engine has been reduced to 1,180 kg.
I just compared it above with state of art M88-2 engine and it looks quite comparable. The area Kaveri needs improvement is in the weight ( 283 kg higher)
3) However, considering that Rafale maximum take of weight of Rafale of 24.5 Tons and maximum external payload capacity of 9.5 tons this weight is just 3% of maximum payload.
DRDO Should convert kavery in to turbofan for commercial aircraft like dornier and c295 will get some revenue for them.
Even if make a deal they are string attached. Get a high altitude testing facility. And a aircraft testing for evaluation. Get the private industry involved. ..matter of time ... results will show. Without testing facility we are not going anywhere.
When India can make cryogenic engines for rockets why can't jet engines for fighter planes. We can do it with proper involvement of private and public sector.
India should and must join with France. Along with jet engines, teach, we can get so much intellectual property from France which USA or UK doesn't offer.
Second is USA is not at all reliable but france is
Third is USA is not offering 100% tot but france offering
We are almost done . Fall is great
We need market competitive and performance oriented HR policy to produse best results and strengthen armed forces.
For eg.. Contract Worker may b hardly motivated to produse the best items
new engine in 2035, when they get the metallurgy sorted out.
Greaaaat
Waste of time
When I was kid I head of Kaveri engine
Today I am 43 still the engine is in development mode
God save indians from govt companies
Do you think corruption in military allow any Indian equipment grow. They will run when war Start. Corruption in military is the biggest hurdle for modernization
Its very difficult. Because we don't have metrology knowledge.
But our vedas have every knowledge in the world saar
Now listen to what the IAF chief said about tejas today.
a few days agoThere was a media report that kaveri engine had been given go ahead signal by Modiji. Is that not true?
Go ahead for high altitude testing which is currently underway in Russia.
Can they not make a aero engine by reverse engineer like chinese do ?
Thats unethical do that stunt and no company will want work with u.... plus u need much more than blue print of these engines...
Reverse engineering is in itself very difficult and Indians don't have basic engineering knowledge to do it.
@@stormbless373 didnt the indian pharmaceutical companies have been doing to western medical patents?
In longer run we want our own Made in Engine but for short per goal, we need to tie up with France for joint venture for development of engine with equal IP share. US you can't trust.
IAF engineers don't adapt themselves to latest jet engine technologies
Good example is relying on AL 31 jets which Russia supplied on 2002
There is some news that India is developing passenger aircraft. Should we buy whole of embrare company instead of developing new passanger aircraft. We can get our hands on military cargo aircraft as well as passenger aircraft.
Why would anybody provide a potential competitor a critical part like aero derivative engine to wash their hands from multi billions of business? When you have LCA for cheaper and cost effective solution with US engine; Lockheed Martin, Boeing et al would lobby US congress to delay and derail Indian engine manufacturing effort. If Indians were smart they would have an interchangeable all of above enginee working with manufacturers like GE, RR, Safran et al.
90% लोग नहीं समझ पा रहें है,इतनी अच्छी जानकारी।
आप समझो। दूसरों की चिंता मत करो।
HAL is pretty leggard in manufacturing process. The issue is now more then 40 years old. The government needs to work now very swiftly for the engines. Cooperation with France is very logical and government don't know why takes so much time. France is ready to cooperate in every way for the production. It is plainly negligence , stupidity.......not to act fast.
In the year 2032, China would be readying its 7ᵗʰ generation (seventh Gen) aircrafts.
Meanwhile, Indians would be worried about the topic ---- अरे! ये शुभमन Gill और सारा तेंदुलकर शादी क्यूँ नहीं कर रहे हैं?
Sara तेन्दुलकर
INDIAN jet engine will it work, oh 75% of the part is imported this is INDIAN tecnology
it will be develop in collabration for 1st phase then it will be completely independent
Indian government must invest more funds in R&D the institution to produce a powerful jet engine for mk2 and amca
1. The supply of GE f404 has been delayed.
2. Contract for f414 hasn't been signed yet, they are asking a higher price for TOT.
3. India is looking for a partnership for engines for LCA MK2 and AMCA MK 1. This is most likely unrelated to the GE F-414 bcoz it doesn't allow super cruise.
In general GE engines don't allow for Supercruise.
4. Safran has backtracked on the investments they promised with the purchase of 36 Rafale.
5. India will probably wait for a recession to hit Europe especially France and UK to finalise the engine deal, they will be squeezed for cashflows in about a year or two so we might get better terms.
The most important part of an aircraft is it's engine, and only 2-3 countries in the world make it. It's very complicated to make, comprises of 40000 parts and forms about 60% of the entire aircraft. Without engine supply from US not even a single Tejas mark-1A could be inducted to air force.
And none of these 2-3 countries will give full ToT of the engines. Take example of our dearest friend Russia, even after 40 years of collab, we still don't have full technology of Su-30 engines and still have to buy its spares from Russia. The foreign collaborators make a lot of promises but they don't even fulfill half of them. Take example of offset clause of Rafales that Dassault needs to invest a certain amount in India, not even half of it is invested. So even if they promise full ToT we will never get them. Reason : India's dependancy on these countries will ensure regular flow of huge cash. And delivery of these spares, maintenance are mostly delayed (90% of time) so we might not get them at the time of need. If we want to increase the production rate of our fighters at the time of need, we won't be able to do it without the engine OEMs increasing their production at the same rate. Eg. News of GE's F-404 production rate not as much as that needed by Tejas. Lastly, in situations of war, global supply chain issues and high demand of engines from multiple countries on these 2-3 countries, there will be further delays.
So even 5% dependance on these 2-3 countries for engines could become a huge issue for us. There is not so much issue with other equipments like radar, avionics, missiles etc. because we can get them from 20 more countries and we can even make them in Bharat as they are not as complicated to make as the engines. A turbofan engine for fighters involve around 40000 parts and comprise around 60% of aircraft.
These facts can be easily verified in internet, if anyone has doubts.
So these are among the most important reasons why we need to be 100% self reliant on jet engine tech to be able to increase our squadron strength by ourselves. We should place an order for fighter jets from foreign countries for now, as its an emergency for us now, but if we want to be able to win wars (which is likely considering neighbours like Pakistan and China), we will able to do it only if we are able to make equipments by ourselves.
So the GoI immediately needs to :
1. Place an order for at least 4 squadrons of fighters (4.5 gen is also fine because 5th gens are scarce and procuring them will take more time which we dont have). No make in India clause as that will also take much more time !
2. Form a team for engine development including most talented engineers and scientists from all institutes and private sector for the redevelopment of Kaveri core, and it's weight reduction (afterburner already taken by Brahmos), so that we at least are able to make a 90kN engine that can power our Tejas mark-1A. And this team will directly report to the PMO, just like ISRO (no bureaucracy hurdles). We need a team from all institutes because we cannot depend on just GTRE (DRDO) now because it has failed to deliver Kaveri even after taking 20 years of time, half a billion dollars of funding and full support in testing facilities.
3. After this team completes development of 90kN Kaveri for Tejas mark-1A, they can start with the new programme of 110kN engine for Tejas mark-2 and AMCA.
This approach IS THE ONLY FASTEST AND SAFEST way of developing engines. We should never think that foreign collabs will make the development faster, because of the above reasons. We might be misguided and assistance might be delayed by foreign partners as well, which is very common.
We need to make our foundation strong first, especially in such complicated technologies.
A foreign collab could be opted for enhancing design and efficiency but only after a good progress in the above mentioned programmes are achieved.
4. Similarly, we can also move the Tejas mark-2 and AMCA under the PMO for faster development as these are equally critical and urgent !
Maybe Year of Chai, Samosa, Paratha - as always “Naive Nitin”
When there will be a entire year dedicated to reform in education sector 😢
Time to hand over Midhani and GTRE in addition to HAL to private players. Else we will keep repeating these "fresh starts"
Making Jet Engines or going to space is not our cup of tea.
Suggestion: The video quality and content are excellent, deserving 10k views per video easily, like a cakewalk. However, your channel's views are quite low, around 800-900 views. Please consider shifting to Hindi rather than English. Please think about it...
We have to have a working indigenous jet engine for Tejas
Listen at 1.50 speed
Short coming of finance by pre 2014 governments is not highlighted.
❤❤❤❤
What is new in this post?😊
I have always had this strong feeling that India was made to sign this deal with GE under some external pressure. I don't have any evidence to back this theory, but the way the entire deal was signed by sidelining other better and reliable options like Saffran and the way the opposition (read Congress) chose to remain completely silent (given their history of crying corruption in every large defence deal signed by Modi govt.) gives me a feeling that it was stage managed by someone very powerful and influential.
The Indian Airforce chose GE because it is better. Thats it. You are pushing corruption into everything.
USA and UK equipment is falling apart. We want to be made in india double engines in our fighter jet, both for the airforce as well as the Navy. We don't need help from the USA. Big bullies will put pressure to compromise. Everyone will try to take advantage, the point is which deals are a good need to select.
F414 engine. Short of material, especially the raw material. Priority will be supply to F35 engine. US needs at least, 100 jet engines
The problem with India's engine development is that the Indian government does not understand what the knowhow and intellectual property involved in engine development actually is. It is not actually difficult to design the physical engine itself - there are finite element and fluid dynamics analysis tools to assist with the design, and the principles are well known. What is difficult and constitutes the secret sauce that is difficult is the metallurgy/materials technology and manufacturing/fabrication techniques that is always developing and that is required to produce cutting edge engines. These are also developed primarily by trial and error or iterative and repetitive testing to find and optimise alloy compositions, heat treatment processes, fabrication methods, coating materials etc. and . It is a similar situation to areas in which India is a laggard such as semiconductor fabrication, and previously laggard eg. radar, nuclear technology, missiles, space etc. - basically there is a need to fund long term research organisations in academia and fundamental research and development programmes into materials technology and fabrication technology and testing labs labs and equipment within organisations like IIT and DRDO, instead of imagining you can produce a one off engine within a short time by a private company with no prior experience. Engine development is fundamentally progressive world wide - materials, fabrication technology and assemblies are primarily developed by trying something out, testing it either as a component or in a test engine, and making incremental improvements, every engine is based on a previous core and previous materials which are improved to achieve small improvements that add up to a lot over time. You cannot do this without the necessary research and development institutions and their staff, and the test equipment to do all the testing in place. This is what is badly lacking in India at the moment.
I think you should make an engine, it seems like an easy task.
More than 40 years have gone, and more than 20000 cr of Indian public money has gone for the project and still India yawns for Indian made jet engine. That is the talent.
My point is the current Kaveri Engine tests which were being conducted in Russia, The whole administration is silent.
When I compare the Kaveri version being tested, the volume, dry thrust & wet thrust. With 3 years of work it will beat the GE variant.
This one can go north of 130kN of wet thrust easily. So why are we not manufacturing more test prototypes ?
How many assembly lines and equipment branches do we need to get this done ?
That's where we should work. Sale deeds and agreements to buy this and that, it's a continuous process for all nations. So where is the information in that ?
Till date, the Chinese spent 40 years, 10s of billions, and their industrial power, they didn't claim to be better than GE. 😂😂
@andrewlim7751 Good for the Chinese I guess. Do you know how many compression stages are there in the Kaveri latest variant ?
How much thrust per kilogram is needed for super cruise capability ?
What's the weight of the GE engine I am discussing ?
India manufactures Russian Jet Engines and we have improved the design and service hours for those engines too. But they are built as a joint venture under a license.
We are talking about making a new engine and testing it; when we discuss reverse engineering and making a knock off which gives out black soot in exhaust stage. When we talk about it, you can weigh in.
Good evening 🌆
What is there left to wait and watch…haven’t we wasted enough time 🕰️…we’re lagging way behind
With due respect to the scientific community...we have still not developed a good truck/bus engine..Tata outsources them from Cummins, Ashok Leyland from Hino...Aircraft and ships are to far..This is not to demoralize any one but it's the truth.
Select Safran from France. Other two (US and UK) are totally unreliable as defence is concerned. We can trade software services, jasmine flowers and mangoes with these two
Abe ye englend nahi hai ki English mein baat kar rahe ho ye Bharat hai hindi mein baat karo taki logo ko samaj aa sake😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂