HOW PORTRAITS LIE - What to be aware of in your portrait photography
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
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HOWPORTRAITS LIE - What to be aware of in your portrait photography
What is the purpose of a portrait?
Aristotle put forth the notion that we judge how ‘good’ something is based on how well it fulfils its intended purpose. So what does a good portrait do that a bad one fails to? What should a photographer aspire to achieve when they make a portrait of someone?
One of the most common pieces of praise I hear about portraits is when people say things like “You’ve really captured that person’s soul.” or “That photo really embodies who that person is”. I think this is often the general perception of what a great portrait does. This is nonsense. One single image can't communicate the complexities, nuances, contradictions, thoughts and feelings of a human being. I think at best this is a misunderstanding of what photography can do, and at worst, a deliberate manipulation of how an audience perceives a person or people.
To explain the latter a little more, we need to look at Dorothea Lange’s iconic image of the Migrant Mother.
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This video touches a complex topic, and does it intelligently. Serving well its purpose.
This comment does exactly the same. Well said, sir!
Thank you.
Completely agree
if the only good thing in my day is watching a vid like this, it is a day worth living.
Great video Jamie. Thank you 👍
Jamie your creative brain makes me jealous.
Hej Jamie, any chance you put some of the sources out there for this vid?
I take many many pictures of people. My purpose is to show them as beautiful as I see them. It has nothing to do with a true portrait.
My problem was, Im studying the photo's so hard I kept losing track of what you are saying,I will try again.
Sorry. I did realise as I was editing this that I was putting too much information out at once. But I had a deadline for the sponsor and didn’t have time to change it. I’ll try not to do that again in future.
I have been very wary of portrait photography, but could never understand why. This video made me realize what I am afraid of: telling the wrong story, portraying the subject in a way that is not honest about who the subject is and who I am as a creator.
I honestly did not know the full story behind Lange's iconic photograph; after hearing the true story behind it and listening to your view on portrait photography, I'm starting to think that maybe I should focus on portraits more than I have in the past.
So sorry for the long-winded comment, thank you for making this video!
truth, which is different from fact, has many layers. with all art, the more layers condensed into a single work the better it is. its more approachable. but the first truth always belongs to the artist, with the rest layered upon it. if your'e looking for honesty from a portrait you need to connect with the subject. making those connections is the hardest part, and a reason ive found it inappropriate to take some peoples portraits
You're missing the fact that you're not responsible for how people interpret your photos. Unless you verbally tell a story around your photography that isn't true, there's no reason why anyone would read anything into your photo unless you want them to through written or spoken words.
VFX Todd I would argue that while you can’t control how everyone will interpret your photos, photography is a language and you can say quite clear things with it.
Portrait photography is a bit like the “Uncertainty Principle” and the “ Observer Effect” . You really can’t tell much about the position and only a little about the time, and as you said Jamie your feelings, prejudices, and beliefs all influence what you see.
I actually think photography in general is "the observer effect". Unless you can completely and invisibly document life, you will influence the people in your shot. I too have thought about this. Cheers mate
My quarantine just got an upgrade :) thx mate
Thought provoking as always. I’d really enjoy seeing you in discussion with other photographers on some of the topics you cover. Although i really enjoy your insights and wouldn’t want to lose that aspect of your vids. Thanks Jamie 👍
Nice approach!! And flawlesly produced (transitions and all)
Great point. I agree that it's complete bullcrap when people think a single photograph capture the "soul" of the subject.
There's a saying, "Why let truth get in the way of a good story". Or image in the case of photography.
Your graphic design training certainly makes your videos stand out from the pack. Great job.
'portraits don't lie, photographers do'...
Just discovered your channel this morning.
I'm finally getting sincerely into photography (35 mm on my dads old Pentax sp1000, shooting in B/W as it is the economically more viable and color film is generally fairly tough to come by at this time but I am enjoying B/W immensely) and the perspectives and advice you provide are priceless (and, as it turns out, FREE!).
*this is entirely subjective but I also very much enjoy your voice and composure.
Anyways, thanks
I would watch 3 hours of that
Such a wonderfully nuanced topic. So many others discuss the tech behind a nice portrait. And I very much enjoy those insights. But I REALLY enjoyed this vid’s POV and how it engaged me in questioning my own work. As always, thank you for the effort and the sharing. I am an appreciative subscriber. Thumbs up.
Fantastic video as usual Jamie. I've always had somewhat of an uncomfortable feeling with a genuine candid shot vs a posed one. The former inherently being a true "capture of the moment" and the latter being more akin to "creating a moment". These two things are fundamentally different in my view and I can't help but feel a little deceived when a posed shot wants to look like a candid one (nb: Obviously, I feel "deceived" a LOT ;) because I want to believe in the true magic (and luck of course) of capturing a beautiful moment in time. As you've pointed out though, perhaps this says a lot more about me than about the photographs (and photographers) themselves. Can you relate to what I'm saying at all? (nb: I've been a freelance photog for 11 years)
Love how (again) you've matched the video's aspect ratio with the topic.
Was literally just read Sally Mann’s memoir with the opening quote “The steady eyes of the crow and the cameras candid eye See as honestly as they know, but they lie”- W.H Auden. Love the points you made in your video and definitely gives me a lot to think about. Keep it up👍
My UA-cam viewing habits revolve around checking your channel each day to see if you've uploaded.
Today was that day.
Blimey. Sorry I only upload about once a month.
@@jamiewindsor I get it, your videos have a lot of very concise and well crafted content. That takes time to make.
I'm lucky to push out one video a week and they are pretty cruddy compared to your stuff.
Thanks for that. A further point: it is not just the sitter's or the photographer's, but also the viewers' performance. And I don't mean the performance of viewing alone, but also the selecting, featuring, publishing, etc. So it was also Roy Stryker at the Farm Security Administration, and then the newspaper and magazine editors / staff, who also created -- or co-created? -- Migrant Mother. Of course we'd want to say, too, that the experienced sensibility of the photographer was a conduit, so to speak, between the scene, the photographing, the editing of the photo, and its eventual use and reception. And if we looked for a source of Lange's sensibility in her experience, it was not just her originally looking out the window of her flat in San Francisco, but also her actually *seeing* the manifest results of the Great Depression on the street. Plenty of people could look out that window, but they could still miss what is going on.
Hey Jamie, I love your videos but your ideas were a bit of a hard to follow in this one..
1.The video was about how "Portraits Lie" but it was actually about whether it's OK for photographers to construct their own story in a photograph. Maybe the title should be "How Truthful Do Portraits Have To Be?"... You then go on from this ethical question to give your view on great portraiture (aesthetically) - but this strays away from your original question.
2.You seem to value more truthful portraiture in the beginning and then in the end you seem to value photos that tell a story. You also admired Bruce Gildens work for its aesthetics and say it doesn't tell a story when he shoots purely street and in-the-moment photography which is as Raw as you can get with truthful storytelling. And you preferred Nan Goldin and Martin Parrs work which are far more about aesthetics and fabricated storytelling. Not saying that's bad but you're just going against what you are saying.
3. You mash documentary portraiture, street portraiture and regular aesthetic portraiture. When asking this ethical question you can't lump them all into one category as you did with the examples. (Storytelling is different with each category).
4. When people say "you've really captured that person's soul" or "you've embodied who that person is" it generally means the same thing.. What they are trying to say is you have captured the ideas, themes or story that I associate with that person .So you say it's nonsense then you say that's what makes a great portrait.
I suggest having one view point about what makes a great portrait so people can take away something from the video. I didn't really take away anything due to the confusing mix of ideas and viewpoints but I liked the portraits in the video. Thoughts? Great video edit and your and ideas always inspire me:)
If it came across that I was a fan of Martin Parr's work, then I have massively failed to communicate my feelings here.
Your videos are so well made, editing always spot on too. You can tell you're a fellow perfectionist as well Jamie!
Thank you. I sometimes wish I cared less about all the details. I’d get more sleep. But I’m glad my efforts are appreciated. It makes it worth it.
Susan Sontag’s ‘Regarding the pain of others’ covers this topic really well, too, Jamie. Love your philosophical take on photography, BTW- a breath of fresh air amongst the “hey wassup!” community. Cheers!
Hi Fred - I found her series of esays on photography here: www.lab404.com/3741/readings/sontag.pdf
Thank you for this thought provoking video Jamie! I really liked how you incorporated and extended Butler's theory on performance, it definitely offers a new perspective on (portrait) photogtaphy👏
Well done. I wrote a paper on the photographers of the Farm Security Administration and this photo was one I included in my exposition but did not uncover the back story you provided. That in itself was fascinating and so was your overall point. Thank you for sharing and provoking.
Usually, I'd just say, "great video", but this one comes with the extra touch of making me uncomfortable because I've definitely believed at least somewhat in capturing a person with one photo. Rethinking that now rather than later, or maybe even never, is very helpful, so thank you, Jamie.I have a question - in your videos, you show a lot of different photos from different photographers from different time periods. How do you find your examples? I always love to see the pictures, there's a lot of variety in your choices, and I'm never sure how to find out more about the world's photographers.
Thank you. I read some contemporary photographic journals as well as a lot of classic books on photography. Prizes such as Portrait of Britain and the Photographic Portrait Prize at the NPG are good places to find inspiring contemporary photographers too.
I think a portrait is a portrait, you don't need words to explain it: it is for people to feel it.
No one:
James: Photography is a lie.
Jokes, awesome vid!
Jamie, you never fail to impress me with your insights..thank you.
(This is coming from a place of love)
I love this video and I love the point you, Jamie, in it.
But it baffles me that in the 2020s we're still having to ""interrogate the truthfulness of images"".
The lens, the focal plane, the film size, the film itself being a photochemical process on crystals and not a photoelectric firing of light sensitives cells, the angle, the framing...
Every picture is in itself a lie, like paintings were before it. It's a form of poetry.
It's really weird to me that this "Was Lange lying ? Was it ethical ?" is still a thing.
I don’t your critique of the photo makes much sense. It’s the false narrative that has been accompanied with it that should be scrutinised.
I really love these videos Jamie! Everyone who is a photographer or aspires to be one should really see your videos. It's extremely necessary to get away from the technical part of photography and focus on what's important, especially these days when people are just focusing on gear, gear and gear... We are lucky we can watch this for free. Cheers man!
Dude, those glasses. Get rid. You look like Timmy Mallet at worst, Ronnie Corbett at best.
Sorry...Just saying what I see.
*THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU*
I can't stand people who are adamant that a portrait *must* say/convey everything about a person's "soul", or feelings at that moment, or their environment. People who say that captions are for bad photographers annoy me to no end.
Very interesting subject. John Berger wrote that photographs are essentially 'neutral' and we bring our preconceptions to bear when viewing them. (He puts different captions under the same image to illustrate this). Berger and Susan Sontag have written the best analyses of images and are worth seeking out while we all have time to read up on photography. Free PDF here: www.lab404.com/3741/readings/sontag.pdf
Hi Jamie! Are you going to make a video how to manage portfolio? How to be consistent with colour grading, styles etc and how to make it look smooth? I got a feeling that my Insta feed is all over and a bit messy?? Will be updating my website this and next week so that's on my mind a lot... That would be really amazing! I love your videos!! Btw do you ever visit Bristol? Martin Parr Foundation and RPS here are amazing! Martin Parr runs lockdown challenges on his Instagram too :)
Hmmmm. I hear what you're saying, but I'm not sure that I agree - for the simple reason that I wouldn't call two-thirds of those images "portraits".
Where portraiture stops and photojournalism begins, I'm not sure. Indeed, I believe there's a degree of overlap between the two, but most of those images were about the story, rather than the person. (And yes, I'm talking myself into a corner!) :-)
Thanks Jamie for yet another interesting and challenging video.
About 4:56 I would say that in every frozen moment of every photograph, we are creating something rather than representing it. When shooting people, I see it as a process of co-creation. Ben Phelan put it very well in his PBS commentary on the famous "Migrant Mother" photo: "Thompson and Lange, for an instant in 1936, were collaborators." And the viewers closed the circle of co-creation with their response to that intimate portrait. As TIME magazine noted, "Lange gave a face to a suffering nation". Truth or lie?
Thank you for the video Sir.
Bruce Gilden is the true Master in my opinion. The people he captures are usually at the most vulnerable and exposed. Street photograhy is Best. @anafab_1990s
Amazing video and topic, Jamie! Would you care to share the software you used to create the presentation? I've been looking for a way to present ideas like that but struggle with doing it all Premiere or After Effects and was hoping you had a tool that simplified the process so I could focus on message and not kill myself assembling. BTW, LOVE your channel and the content you produce! I was an instant fan!
Thanks man! Great great content videos on your channel.I spend more than 2000 hours watching youtube content videos about photography...you just opened my mind in many ways.Thanks !
I'm sure there was an experiment (prob on channel 4) were they asked a group of photographers to photograph the same person. However, for each photographer they gave the person a different back story and asked them to capture something about the person. Individually viewed the images seemed to do this, but when put together, there was little difference in how any story was seem from the images
I learn an awful lot from your videos on photography. I am a photographer specializing in the documentary genre. I really appreciated your research on Dorothy Lange. However, the seriousness of your subject, the portrait, was needlessly, stained by the music. Just your voice, alone, makes your commentary, poignant.
I hope your happy, my brain now hurts... From some one who shot people for over 5 decades, you took me on a supersonic philosophy course... whew!
I stopped shooting people when I retired because I almost felt as if I were a thief, stealing their souls... You have potentially reframed my thinking 🤔 Kudos!!!
Incredible video as always, after seeing UA-camr after UA-camr do the same video with slow beats photographing stilysh things but with no substance, is great to see another video of yours with great insight on photography!
I've been on doing documentary photography lately because I was almost like force to it due what Is happening in my country, and because of that I just can't take a fake story, I don't like portraits, I have never ever liked them, I do landscapes in my regular life, but in documentary photography you end up doing like everything so I had been to taken a lot of portraits, and I just can't stand to the idea of my photo somehow lying, I don't like to describe my photos a lot, but I make sure that the shot itself tells the real story, I do no photoshop and use no film. I guess that that is because my job is to report something, to have evidence of the history that is being written, it's not about feelings but about thruth. So I found this topic interesting, I'd been so on to tell the truth as it is for a common need that I forgot that photography is about making people feel something, I'm fair sure that people feel something in my photos, but I think Is just fot the reality of the subjects, it's like I just can't lie, there's too much context in it to lie.
It is actually simple. It’s a great portrait.
It’s a political and journalistic lie.
You can take great picture of Hitler and still be an honest photographer.
You can’t use that same picture as an honest journalist to show Hitler was a good guy.
Photography and journalism are not the same thing and should not be judged in the same way.
$.02 ;)
Another good example of this is the Pulitzer photo by Kevin Carter. It was shot with a long lens which distorted the perspective. Still, people found something symbolic and heart-breaking in it.
Your videos are incredibly crafted. Please keep up the good work. Simple, to the point, hella entertaining and informative. Thank you.
Winogrand:
I'm interested in what something looks like, to a camera.
Putting four corners around something changes it.
There isn't a photograph in the world that has depth. They're two dimensional.
Photographs do not tell stories. It's the illusion of literal description.
All there is, is light on surface; and that's all we ever know about anyone - light on surface.
4:3 ratio. nice
Without doubt some of the most intelligent, thoughtful photography videos on UA-cam.
Many thanks, Sir.
I don’t have an issue with editing or even composing but lying is lying. If someone changes a photo but honest about it it’s fine to me. But creating a fake story and lying doesn’t seem right, even for a greater good. If it’s that important just find a family in the actual situation described
This is a big reason why I left photojournalism, People made all sorts of assumptions about my images, which weren't true, and yet, photojournalism is supposed to be "the truth". It bothered me a lot. Now I do fine art photography, which I think it more honest. No one is assuming that the crazy narrative they make up in their own head is truthful.
I stopped this video at 1:05 while brushing my teeth because I decided this not video I want to watch on the side. I decided to give it my full attention! Jamie, your videos are so inspiring. Every time I watch a video of you I am stunned and pushed in the right direction how I think a bout photography. The way you visualize your thoughts is amazing. Thank you so much! - a german amateur photographer -
now let's continue the video
Thanks again for some quality cerebral material. Another thanks for the truth behind Migrant Women. I had the women as completely destitute with no husband and contemplating her next meal for the family from an article I read about the photo. Honestly, I feel better.
The aspect ratio is exactly the same as my iPad and it’s very satisfying to watch in full screen.
That was part of the idea. I do love 4x3.
I interpret an image my way you, yours. An anguished look may actually be brain freeze from eating ice cream too fast.
When I look at an image I look at it's execution any concept of it saying anything except to me in my own head is in general as much bull shit as that image of woman and her kids telling me lies and attempting to manipulate me. It's one reason Nan Goldin is not my cup of tea.
It's been well over a hundred years of image creaters and presenters trying to tell us what to think. As a Vietnam vet you can't possibly imagine how tired I am of some photographer and or marketing person presenting us as troubled people in need of help. Yes war is hell but living is great. STOP trying to tell some bullshit story and just take a decent photograph.
As you said, Lang's job was to document.... She was acting more as a news and/or social journalist. She had an ethical responsibility to truthfully document the experience of her subjects. She had an ethical responsibility not to stage her photos. She was, in fact, not engaged in producing portraits in the true sense of the practice, a form of photography which is judged on a far lighter ethical standard.
Excellent videos Jamie, keep doing your great job for photographers seeking further in concepts and image!
Steve McCurry has been this years and the Afghan Girl is probably the most famous portrait of modern times. There was a photo of a polar bear a couple of year again with again, National Geographic magazine used for another story then apologised. If Nat Geo uses it now for their own narrative which is then taken as fact then that’s the future. It’s the reality I guess.
I like your portrait deffinition. Portraits lies as human beeng. We are used to lie to find truth, just because truth is elusive without concesions so we invented truth as the truth behind a"good portrait" ....That kind of truth that change with our mood...This last concept we can say is true.
I think it is an important discussion and important questions you pose, but as you say it is a complex conversation. Portrait photography is opposites combined in one entity: Manipulation and truth.
A photographer can control the focus of the audience as your example portrays, but a photo can also be a window into realities where the photographer is steered by the subject. It's a constant dialogue, and something we need to be critical of as viewers! :D
I may have failed to understand the point of this video, but I think there's much more to analyze when talking about Portrait art. Portraits have a long history starting from the Mediterranean civilizations. It also relates to the need for representation of humans in art. I can't go very deep in this comment, but to close my comment, if we think of the photographer as an artist, then the artist has every right to hold to their prejudices and beliefs. The triangle of the observer, the observed and the maker will always exist in tension in any work of art. I think the underlying issue with photography and art in general today is how it's being branded, politicized, iconified, imposed with different meanings and sold for selfish purposes. The meaning and purpose totally change if you look at portraiture as an art form.
That surfboard...
I swear the horizon is wonky.
The logo lead me to think it's Australian.
Bit late to this one. I wholeheartedly agree. I always think it sounds like such wank. If you know the person well, you can say it captures them. Otherwise any character traits you attach to a portrait is entirely of your own imagination’s doing. And that’s not a bad thing. But should be borne in mind because it’s easy to fall back into the received wisdom.
Only you could manage a 4:3 video 😁
Fantastic!
Bardzo ciekawy punkt widzenia. Rzeczywiście jak uczą starzy mistrzowie "portret ma pokazywać dusze osoby na zdjęciu".
This video is the reason I'll be subscribing to your channel. You are a deeply completed, well -researched person. I look forward to more of your work.
Every video you put out raises the bar. You engage the viewer, make them question their view of things and do it in an engaging and visually appealing way. When are you and Sean Tucker gona have a UA-cam baby?
Don't leave comments as I don't know much. I love following you and the approach towards photography that I want to learn about. I might never learn enough and I thank you for sharing
Very articulate and thoughful Jamie. Plenty to think about. Much appreciated.
I like to take portraits. I would consider my self a portrait photograher. I love the process, and the clients love their images. But videos like these (which are amazing btw) make me feel like I'm bad, or less of a photographer than others because they capture portraits in honestly, a way that I don't even understand. Bruce Gilden's work is beyond me, I just like taking flattering images of people but everything on YT makes me believe there needs to be meaning.
Great info, did not know that about lange's photo. Makes me feel less guilty about doing things like that in my photography even though I'm a purist and frown on minipulation, I admit my photos are more about my view of someone than the person themselves.
What about Instagram?
What is it's contribution to the photography? How big is the impact on photography because of a 1 second of attention in phone format photographs, no matter the circumstances of the viewer surroundings?
Thanks Jamie. Another very thought provoking production.
Great insight as always! Thank you for sharing! Cheers, Benjamin
Good point ! I like your approche , it triggers questions . Thank you from Singapore, stay safe
Dorothea’s photo was propaganda but the result was a positive outcome for the people it aimed to draw attention to. She just took liberty with the brief. A commercial photo should be functional and beautiful. I think there’s an understanding that most portraits have a certain amount of fiction to them, but the moral and ethical dilemma is when it is passed off as photojournalism. Ultimately a portrait is always a collaboration between the photographer and the person within the frame.
Excellent and thought provoking as usual. Thanks for your insights!
This is known as propaganda, not journalistic photography. Crafting a portrait to fit a specific narrative or agenda is a bummer. Crafting a portrait to fit an expression, a moment or the human condition free of outside influence is art. Be art everyone. Be art.
Great analysis Jamie. Every photograph is a lie, but it’s also the truth. Depends on how you want to represent it or what perspective you choose to show. You can say it’s liken to a sound bite, sometimes taken out of context nonetheless.
Great channel, a really refreshing and informative change to the usual materialistic equipment obsessed usual out there on UA-cam. Keep it up
An image may it be a painting or a photograph is always subject to the interpretation by the viewer and as such can only suggest a story.
The problem with the picture of the migrant mother is not the image, which by it self does not tell anything about the context the photo was taken in, nor the mindset of the person taking it. Without this information the image stands alone and the viewer has to imagine the context and the purpose.
A problem arises if the photo is supplied with that missing information, as the viewer then is no longer free in his interpretation. In this specific case the information provided is even false in order to achieve the desired effect.
Nice thoughts and as ever flawlessly executed video. And yes, posing can influence an interpretation as well, but a lot less subtle than a provided context.
Pro tip : It's not because you are sponsored by squarespace that you have to make your video square :P. haha joking great video mate !
A portrait photograph is an image of the person frozen in time, with no moral overlay. What Lange did was documentary photography.
Bruce Gilden is arguably one of the worst photographers ever.
A rarely study of subject and publicity, after all everything depends not on the editor but who owns the media.
I think you are placing too much emphasis on the words that accompanied the photo, not the photo itself.Two different things I am afraid.
Portraits can tell you a little about the person, a little about their condition, a little about the commonality of the human condition, a little about the photographer. Or they can tell you that it's just a person sitting there and it required no more than pushing a button and you need to read the title or byline to add information.
Portraits at best only tell you a little. If anybody thinks they tell a lot is only because they already know about the person and are able to connect or project that knowledge into things they see in the photo. Most other portraits are influenced on what the viewer finds pleasurable or is interested to look at. Women with wardrobe and makeup, and an attractive face is a better portrait than a regular looking man in a t-shirt and cargo shorts.
Man why don't you have 5 million subscribers already?
For me, the truth in any photograph, particularly portraits, is the feeling it inspires in the viewer, not what was objectively in front of the photographer's lens when they pressed the shutter release.
Awesome video - much appreciated and very well done! I subscribed too.
I wrote an entire paper about this topic using the photograph of the migrant mother as an example. It's a huge topic worth talking about and considering.
It was Intended at the time, and continues to this day, to be propaganda. It was at the time, and continues to this day, to be successful propaganda. It wasn't in any way intended to be a portrait of that particular woman.
It is pretty simple really! Photography is art, therefore everything IS permitted, even lying.
Every photo portrait I produce tells the truth that I want it to tell. I have different reasons to tell different truths but they are all, in one sense, true. I have always loved this image without any investigation, though I have always found it suspect. We photographers, like all other artists, lie, cheat and steal to suit our needs. It's not that we tell you what you want to hear, It's that we tell you what we want you to hear.