Elden ring on Xbox Series is such a chore to play without VRR. Honestly find it very lazy Namco/Fromsoftware doesn't give you a near locked 60fps experience like you can with the PS4 Version on PS5. Bizarre to say the least.
VRR should have been used from day 1 this generation to enhance frame rate targets, such as 30 and 60. So many games could have been much more enjoyable at 35-45 fps vrr than just a locked 30, and at 65-80 fps rather than just 60.
I bought my 4k Oled TV about 8 years ago and it still working very well and does have superb picture quality. I can´t see myself getting a new TV just for VRR. My LG Oled does have 120HZ but no VRR.
I have a new Sony OLED with HDMI 2.0 that supports VRR, but I stopped using it faster than I started to because of input lag. The games run and look phenomenal in VRR, but for some reason Sony TV’s seem to have increased input lag when using VRR. It’s not quite as bad as when you don’t use game mode, but it’s enough that I picked up on it. Vincent from HDTVTest actually measured this in a video comparing LG to Sony and found that LG’s input lag was not impacted by VRR but Sony was.
All displays experience raised input latency when using VRR. Total system latency is what gets addressed on the PC side. There isn't any good documentation proving that VRR on consoles improves total system latency. That includes the controller(wired vs. wireless), console latency, and display latency. PC VRR has tech designed to reduce system latency, so you generally reduce total latency even though the display latency is lifted by about 3ms. Having said all of this, VRR doesn't raise latency to any degree that should be noticeable, regardless of manufacturer. My Sony A95L is only 3ms slower with input latency vs my LG C1. That is not humanly perceptible. Anyone claiming otherwise is outright lying. Sonys do have a weird bug presently. Try switching inputs on the TV after loading a title into vrr, and then switch back to the input you are playing the game on. It should fix any tearing, stuttering, or latency issues until they address it with a firmware update.
I Noticed The Input Lag On The 2024 Sony 4k OLED VRR With HDMI 2.O Over My Friend's House Too. Here's The Crazy Part, My 2023 Sony Bravia 4k Full LED 120 Hrz VVR With HDMI 2.0 Input Doesn't Have Any Lag With My Games. Also I'm Using My Brother's Nintendo Switch's HDMI Cord 😂😂 I Really Don't Understand Why?!
I see Hisense and TCL have released quite a few Uled displays supporting 4K @ 144hz and also 1080p @ 240hz with VRR and ALLM. Recently got the Hisense U7K and it ticks all the boxes.
CHeers I'll look into this model - I STRONGLY beleive 1440p is (barely) the time we are in for anything other than very old games, sadly. 4K is just absurd marketing buzz terminology, it's not even CLOSE to practical with todays rushed development and underpowered consoles, severely underpowered.
Frl. With all this upscaling and stuff happening, it almost makes it seem like the ps5 isn’t even more powerful than last generation that didn’t need such high tech upscaling. Like the Xbox one x ran rdr2 at native 4k 30fps, which looks better than most AAA games today.
I would be legitimately stunned if Nintendo even considered VRR at all... Remember, the hardware has been finalized & ready since late 2022, and I just don't see Nintendo thinking it's much of an issue worth concerning themselves about.
Performance is always a software problem. Sometimes, it is also a business requirements problem, but that has not been an issue since the PS4, frankly.
Ps4 was a beast. Especially comparing it to the homobox one. The homobox one was literally a reskin of the homobox 360 😂😂. Homobox one is a 720p7fps machine
It pretty much already is. Nobody is forcing you to pay at 30fps in fidelity mode. Majority if not all of PS5 games have 60fps performance mode. I can't think of a single 30fps only game. I like having the choice of choosing to play at 30fps @ 2160p or 60fps @ 1440p.
@@electrikoptik Yeah, nearly every PS5 game either runs at 60 fps (or higher) or has a performance mode. The amount of 30 fps only games numbers in the low single digits. People talk about consoles as if it's still 2015.
@@electrikoptik yes I do but I lowered my standards because of the amount of disappointment, we're already at the halfway point and they're barely putting up 60 FPS as the standard
Frl. People keep saying games are to demanding when they look worse than last generation games. it almost feels like these games are underbaked and rushed on purpose. Innovation was never this expensive, there were plenty of indie games last gen that got more popularity than AAA games
In a weird way I feel like I've been waiting to actually utilize vrr on my Series X with my LG CX. I like the idea that I can run Fallout 4 at such high settings at 60fps with VRR!
Great point made by Alex. VRR, while great, has its drawbacks. Games that offer the 40 hz full 4K experience like TLOU 1/2 have frame dips from 40 down to 30 and I know 10 FPS isn’t a big difference, it’s enough to throw off the experience. My eyes notice that and it gets annoying at times.
If developers can't make their game run at 60fps, maybe they should just decrease graphical fidelity (?). Am I the only one here who cares 10x more about fps than graphics? Why are companies so obsessed with graphics now? 30 fps in 2024 is ridiculous!
I would blame the lack of art direction within the developers, and they relies heavily on technologies like ray tracing and resolution scaling to make up for their shortcoming. For example, baked shadow still looks good but they want to use ray tracing because it's more accurate. Reality is, gamer like me doesn't really care if the shadow is accurate or not, as long they looks good. For me, graphics already looks good since PS4 era. I welcome photo realistic graphics but it should not be at the expense of performance.
"Why are companies so obsessed with graphics now?" When weren't companies obsessed with graphics? I remember PS2 games that would routinely run at 20-something fps during heavy sections.
I'm not liking the way VRR is described these days. It's not a fix for poor performance whatsoever. It merely makes it so that you don't have to see tearing. A locked framerate will always be preferable.
Not necessarily. Higher frame rate means lower input lag in theory right. So a locked frame rate lower than it needs to be is the concern. But yes if you’re talking about a good frame rate and locked frames I see your point. But the whole point of vrr is when it’s hard to hit the desired frames consistent but you still want a certain amount of frames.
The disappointing thing about VRR is it does not cover all the Hz/FPS your games are likely to produce especially for consoles. It is basically useless because devs are still making games for 30fps and the lowest supported Hz for HDMI VRR is 40Hz. This is a big deal. Movies are 24fps. A lot of displays only do 60Hz. This causes frame pacing irregularities. But I have displays I can tell it to do 24Hz. And when I do, 24 fps movies look a lot better. Where we need VRR is more at the lower Hz than the higher Hz.
elden ring didn't bothered to put a 30fps cap even with the DLC no we need publisher who actually care about how to play their games. And VRR is not going to make fps drop bearable it still really bad to have them
Hi Digital Foundry. Please cover the Tekken 8 problem. They have RUINED Tekken by adding noob friendly 1 button x-ray-like moves from mortal kombat. I hope that you will cover this issue.
But VRR has range 48-120. I can definitely notice drop from 60 fps on my LG OLED B3 especially in Avatar or Cyberpunk on PS5. VRR only helps eliminate tearing.
VRR had too many standards and additional technologies. Add in LFC, and suddenly, the Series consoles and PS5 can do 20-120. Either way, VRR isn't ready for prime time. Displays are still hardware limited with the technology in use, causing gamma shifts and flicker when frames are highly variable. These issues haven't been addressed and affect all display types. The tech is still in beta, and everyone who bought in is a tester.
@mauriciochacon you can lol the facts all you want. It doesn't mean that the issues don't persist. If you don't notice the shift in gamma raising your black level and shifting colors, congrats on lacking the perception to see the problem. I expect my products to work properly for the money I spend, regardless of the price bracket. Have fun testing the tech, I'll wait for it to work without introducing problems.
Elden rings’s dlc is great but the performance needs help. I played the entire base game in quality with ray tracing on ps5. The quality mode is unusable in the dlc because of the poor frame rates. Playing the dlc in performance mode which helps but don’t like the graphic quality drop. It is very noticeable on my lg 4K oled.
Yeah Sony didnt even support it properly, they had to bodge it in like a year after launch, so it'll never be a truly effective VRR. We'll need PS5 pro or PS6 for that.
OK. Have fun with normalized 8 year dev cycles amidst perpetual layoffs, constant studio closures, and publisher encouraged revolving door hiring pracitices! I’m sure “”good developers”” are thriving in that system.
@@ElvenSonic your a clown. Games are coming out with hardly better visuals than we gotten on the enchanted machines last gen and they will moan and cry about developing time? They are double left handed incapable of making good games and continuously make excuses instead.
VRR will just encourage more garbage practices. It will be a crutch. Like how patches encouraged broken games. How microtransactions encouraged continued fleecing.
VRR's for reducing latency, not performance. And considering most console games use half-refresh VSYNC, they are not even eligible for VRR in the first place.
Why do you keep posting videos like this? We need developers to do their job. They obviously listen to what you’re putting out so tell them to show some work ethic and make a damned half decent game for once this console generation. Frame generation is far away from making sense in console applications and dynamic resolution is getting worse as the years go by. That’s the main reason I bought the series S this console generation. No native anything so why spend $200-$300 more for a console that cannot output native resolution either if it’s 4k then it’s actually lingering between 1188 and 1440 to 4k when proper conditions are met. Still equivalent to the best resolutions that the series S can put out. Do we need gaming or graphics? Do we need stability or lookability (visual fidelity)
VRR is the most overrated feature in gaming along with rat tracing. VRR enabled only destroys the picture quality in my experience. I turned it off on my S95B and was shocked that the picture quality actually improved.
Personally I don't really care about fps really, if the game is Great at 40 or 50 then it's no problem. PlayStation definitely has the advantage when it comes to playing games even at the minimum. I think 60 and above is more realistic with nexgen after Xbox series X and PlayStation 5. Already at the halfway point and 60 is already being a thing too late.
Elden ring on ps5 is a mess performance wise and its nauseating when the frames alter all the time. Its important that frames are as consistent as possible and preferably 60 fpals. Anything below that cripples the smoothness of the gameplay experience. Frame dips are too noticeable in elden ring and it really does affect the overall gameplay experience.
If badly running games didn't pass certification these performance issues would disappear instantly. It's that simple.
Thats a pretty totalitarian way of looking at things
@@talison461 Ice cream that doesn't meet strict quality standards won't leave the factory. Same should be applied to games.
If people didn't buy games that perform like garbage the problems would disappear, too.
@@hiho9149Yeah let's convince all the normies to grow a backbone and get some standards. Goodluck with that happening.
@@altonb.1396 That's the point. Just as likely as the suggestion in the OP. Why would publishers turn down money?
Elden ring on Xbox Series is such a chore to play without VRR. Honestly find it very lazy Namco/Fromsoftware doesn't give you a near locked 60fps experience like you can with the PS4 Version on PS5. Bizarre to say the least.
Homobox series x is weak. Can't polish a turd to make it look good.
@@Kingofconsoles54Ryan Miller speaking like a child while in their 30's.....
@@mikeuk666 what'd they say?
@@MorningstarJinnread their daily comments here.... 😂
@@mikeuk666 ?
VRR should have been used from day 1 this generation to enhance frame rate targets, such as 30 and 60. So many games could have been much more enjoyable at 35-45 fps vrr than just a locked 30, and at 65-80 fps rather than just 60.
VRR is still new to the mass market
It definitely should be an option. Even if defaulted to the non vrr average gamer friendly settings.
I bought my 4k Oled TV about 8 years ago and it still working very well and does have superb picture quality. I can´t see myself getting a new TV just for VRR. My LG Oled does have 120HZ but no VRR.
I have a new Sony OLED with HDMI 2.0 that supports VRR, but I stopped using it faster than I started to because of input lag. The games run and look phenomenal in VRR, but for some reason Sony TV’s seem to have increased input lag when using VRR. It’s not quite as bad as when you don’t use game mode, but it’s enough that I picked up on it.
Vincent from HDTVTest actually measured this in a video comparing LG to Sony and found that LG’s input lag was not impacted by VRR but Sony was.
All displays experience raised input latency when using VRR. Total system latency is what gets addressed on the PC side. There isn't any good documentation proving that VRR on consoles improves total system latency. That includes the controller(wired vs. wireless), console latency, and display latency. PC VRR has tech designed to reduce system latency, so you generally reduce total latency even though the display latency is lifted by about 3ms. Having said all of this, VRR doesn't raise latency to any degree that should be noticeable, regardless of manufacturer. My Sony A95L is only 3ms slower with input latency vs my LG C1. That is not humanly perceptible. Anyone claiming otherwise is outright lying. Sonys do have a weird bug presently. Try switching inputs on the TV after loading a title into vrr, and then switch back to the input you are playing the game on. It should fix any tearing, stuttering, or latency issues until they address it with a firmware update.
I Noticed The Input Lag On The 2024 Sony 4k OLED VRR With HDMI 2.O Over My Friend's House Too.
Here's The Crazy Part, My 2023 Sony Bravia 4k Full LED 120 Hrz VVR With HDMI 2.0 Input Doesn't Have Any Lag With My Games. Also I'm Using My Brother's Nintendo Switch's HDMI Cord 😂😂 I Really Don't Understand Why?!
I see Hisense and TCL have released quite a few Uled displays supporting 4K @ 144hz and also 1080p @ 240hz with VRR and ALLM. Recently got the Hisense U7K and it ticks all the boxes.
CHeers I'll look into this model - I STRONGLY beleive 1440p is (barely) the time we are in for anything other than very old games, sadly. 4K is just absurd marketing buzz terminology, it's not even CLOSE to practical with todays rushed development and underpowered consoles, severely underpowered.
Developers are too obsessed with high end graphics and are not good at optimization
Frl. With all this upscaling and stuff happening, it almost makes it seem like the ps5 isn’t even more powerful than last generation that didn’t need such high tech upscaling. Like the Xbox one x ran rdr2 at native 4k 30fps, which looks better than most AAA games today.
I would love every console game to have similar graphics options to GT7
I hope Switch 2 supports VRR docked.
Hopefully support VRR in handheld mode too to help with 3rd party games.
I would be legitimately stunned if Nintendo even considered VRR at all...
Remember, the hardware has been finalized & ready since late 2022, and I just don't see Nintendo thinking it's much of an issue worth concerning themselves about.
I hope not
@@corey2232 the PS3 has been updated many times to support HDMI-control and 3D, 3D bluray playback as well.
There's a chance
If anything G-Sync will be what Nvidia deploys for Nintendo’s 10th generation platform.
Performance is always a software problem.
Sometimes, it is also a business requirements problem, but that has not been an issue since the PS4, frankly.
Ps4 was a beast. Especially comparing it to the homobox one. The homobox one was literally a reskin of the homobox 360 😂😂. Homobox one is a 720p7fps machine
@HiN00bs12 Ryan Miller you're in your 30's talking like a child & you wonder why everyone laughs at you?
@@Kingofconsoles54 Grow up, mate. Damn...
@@Kingofconsoles54seek help
60FPS should be the standard.
Maybe for next-gen cuz 30 to 40 to 50 is pretty much the max for some reason?
It pretty much already is. Nobody is forcing you to pay at 30fps in fidelity mode. Majority if not all of PS5 games have 60fps performance mode. I can't think of a single 30fps only game.
I like having the choice of choosing to play at 30fps @ 2160p or 60fps @ 1440p.
@@jurassictyrantkingYT Do you own a PS5 or Series X?
@@electrikoptik Yeah, nearly every PS5 game either runs at 60 fps (or higher) or has a performance mode. The amount of 30 fps only games numbers in the low single digits. People talk about consoles as if it's still 2015.
@@electrikoptik yes I do but I lowered my standards because of the amount of disappointment, we're already at the halfway point and they're barely putting up 60 FPS as the standard
Optimize your games better instead. You dont need to release your game early, broken and buggy. You choose to do that, we aren't asking for that
Make 60FPS standard first.
Frl. People keep saying games are to demanding when they look worse than last generation games. it almost feels like these games are underbaked and rushed on purpose. Innovation was never this expensive, there were plenty of indie games last gen that got more popularity than AAA games
Main 60fps locked mode
+ Quality 30fps / Ray tracing / VRR 40fps modes for those that want to enhance the game
In a weird way I feel like I've been waiting to actually utilize vrr on my Series X with my LG CX. I like the idea that I can run Fallout 4 at such high settings at 60fps with VRR!
Did Ratchet and Clank use vrr? Maybe god of war. Either way those are awesome games with multiple frame rate options… and I’m primarily an Xbox gamer.
Ratchet has a couple of VRR options if I remember correctly.
Yes, they both do.
Great point made by Alex. VRR, while great, has its drawbacks. Games that offer the 40 hz full 4K experience like TLOU 1/2 have frame dips from 40 down to 30 and I know 10 FPS isn’t a big difference, it’s enough to throw off the experience. My eyes notice that and it gets annoying at times.
talking about 30-40 FPS in 2024 is beyond a joke.
FromSoft needs to add Low Framerate Compensation so that VRR can be used in quality mode on PS5. But its FromSoft so it will never happen
You just need to wait until PS6 for the Quality mode to run at 60fps or close enough (48fps-60fps) for it to work.
answer to title - only for bad ports
If developers can't make their game run at 60fps, maybe they should just decrease graphical fidelity (?). Am I the only one here who cares 10x more about fps than graphics? Why are companies so obsessed with graphics now? 30 fps in 2024 is ridiculous!
Lower graphical fidelity in 2024 is also ridiculous.
I would blame the lack of art direction within the developers, and they relies heavily on technologies like ray tracing and resolution scaling to make up for their shortcoming. For example, baked shadow still looks good but they want to use ray tracing because it's more accurate. Reality is, gamer like me doesn't really care if the shadow is accurate or not, as long they looks good. For me, graphics already looks good since PS4 era. I welcome photo realistic graphics but it should not be at the expense of performance.
Lower resolution , 4k is still stupid.
@SolorockinOne trying to copy high spec pc settings on consoles is ridiculous you mean
"Why are companies so obsessed with graphics now?"
When weren't companies obsessed with graphics? I remember PS2 games that would routinely run at 20-something fps during heavy sections.
I'm not liking the way VRR is described these days. It's not a fix for poor performance whatsoever. It merely makes it so that you don't have to see tearing. A locked framerate will always be preferable.
Not necessarily. Higher frame rate means lower input lag in theory right. So a locked frame rate lower than it needs to be is the concern. But yes if you’re talking about a good frame rate and locked frames I see your point. But the whole point of vrr is when it’s hard to hit the desired frames consistent but you still want a certain amount of frames.
i wish games begin providing 40fps lock
I see my TV flicker every 10 seconds or so when I have VRR on while playing PS5 games so I turn it off.
I don’t have VRR so I have to run the PS4 version of Elden Ring just to hit 60fps
Would be nice if ps5 allowed vrr on hdmi 2.0
Would be nice if you kept up with the times
@@jollama 1440p isn’t exactly ancient, and some would say a better match for a ps5 considering the resolutions it renders
@@jollama😂
I wish vrr worked on hdmi 1.4. I'll have to upgrade soon.
The disappointing thing about VRR is it does not cover all the Hz/FPS your games are likely to produce especially for consoles. It is basically useless because devs are still making games for 30fps and the lowest supported Hz for HDMI VRR is 40Hz. This is a big deal. Movies are 24fps. A lot of displays only do 60Hz. This causes frame pacing irregularities. But I have displays I can tell it to do 24Hz. And when I do, 24 fps movies look a lot better. Where we need VRR is more at the lower Hz than the higher Hz.
If a game is running at 40 unstable, they should lock it to 30
elden ring didn't bothered to put a 30fps cap even with the DLC no we need publisher who actually care about how to play their games. And VRR is not going to make fps drop bearable it still really bad to have them
Alex makes some very good points. Thanks for the informative response.
Hi Digital Foundry. Please cover the Tekken 8 problem. They have RUINED Tekken by adding noob friendly 1 button x-ray-like moves from mortal kombat. I hope that you will cover this issue.
But VRR has range 48-120. I can definitely notice drop from 60 fps on my LG OLED B3 especially in Avatar or Cyberpunk on PS5. VRR only helps eliminate tearing.
On xbox is 40-120
VRR had too many standards and additional technologies. Add in LFC, and suddenly, the Series consoles and PS5 can do 20-120. Either way, VRR isn't ready for prime time. Displays are still hardware limited with the technology in use, causing gamma shifts and flicker when frames are highly variable. These issues haven't been addressed and affect all display types. The tech is still in beta, and everyone who bought in is a tester.
@@mikew1080 lol, my lg b9 low end is just great, none of the issues you say for the most regular games, maybe some have issues but those are few
@mauriciochacon you can lol the facts all you want. It doesn't mean that the issues don't persist. If you don't notice the shift in gamma raising your black level and shifting colors, congrats on lacking the perception to see the problem. I expect my products to work properly for the money I spend, regardless of the price bracket. Have fun testing the tech, I'll wait for it to work without introducing problems.
@@mikew1080 enjoy your stutter on a regular tv then
Elden rings’s dlc is great but the performance needs help. I played the entire base game in quality with ray tracing on ps5. The quality mode is unusable in the dlc because of the poor frame rates. Playing the dlc in performance mode which helps but don’t like the graphic quality drop. It is very noticeable on my lg 4K oled.
Can we talk about how poor the PS5 implementation of VRR STILL is? I'll always opt to buy a cross platform game on Series X because of this.
Yeah Sony didnt even support it properly, they had to bodge it in like a year after launch, so it'll never be a truly effective VRR. We'll need PS5 pro or PS6 for that.
Barely helps at all with elden ring on ps5 when i try to force it on. Garbage frame rate
No, we need good developers instead
OK. Have fun with normalized 8 year dev cycles amidst perpetual layoffs, constant studio closures, and publisher encouraged revolving door hiring pracitices! I’m sure “”good developers”” are thriving in that system.
@@ElvenSonicHe said he wanted good developers. Your comment is the complete opposite of that
@@ElvenSonicwhat? 🤡
@@ElvenSonic your a clown. Games are coming out with hardly better visuals than we gotten on the enchanted machines last gen and they will moan and cry about developing time? They are double left handed incapable of making good games and continuously make excuses instead.
Use your head @@ElvenSonic
playstation stinks for vrr compared to xbox
@@1997Ghost xbox stinks for games compared to PlayStation
@@1997Ghost Literally every PS5 first party game runs up to 100fps thanks to VRR. The same cannot be said about xbox first party games 🤣🤣🤣
VRR will just encourage more garbage practices. It will be a crutch. Like how patches encouraged broken games. How microtransactions encouraged continued fleecing.
I’m hooked on high resolutions at 30fps
It seems digital foundry accidentally bought a 120hz tv for every current gen console owner.
My wife will be super happy. She is still using a 10 year old 1080p tv to play games on.
VRR's for reducing latency, not performance.
And considering most console games use half-refresh VSYNC, they are not even eligible for VRR in the first place.
That's funny, because Playstation can't do VRR to save their life.
PC and Xbox have VRR running great.
@@glenmcl xbox can't do quality games to save their life 🤣🤣🤣
every time I turn VRR on my PS5 to use 120hz on games I get flickering on my tv
Why do you keep posting videos like this? We need developers to do their job. They obviously listen to what you’re putting out so tell them to show some work ethic and make a damned half decent game for once this console generation. Frame generation is far away from making sense in console applications and dynamic resolution is getting worse as the years go by. That’s the main reason I bought the series S this console generation. No native anything so why spend $200-$300 more for a console that cannot output native resolution either if it’s 4k then it’s actually lingering between 1188 and 1440 to 4k when proper conditions are met. Still equivalent to the best resolutions that the series S can put out. Do we need gaming or graphics? Do we need stability or lookability (visual fidelity)
VRR is the most overrated feature in gaming along with rat tracing. VRR enabled only destroys the picture quality in my experience. I turned it off on my S95B and was shocked that the picture quality actually improved.
Personally I don't really care about fps really, if the game is Great at 40 or 50 then it's no problem. PlayStation definitely has the advantage when it comes to playing games even at the minimum. I think 60 and above is more realistic with nexgen after Xbox series X and PlayStation 5. Already at the halfway point and 60 is already being a thing too late.
Elden ring on ps5 is a mess performance wise and its nauseating when the frames alter all the time. Its important that frames are as consistent as possible and preferably 60 fpals. Anything below that cripples the smoothness of the gameplay experience. Frame dips are too noticeable in elden ring and it really does affect the overall gameplay experience.
What trash! My NES never needed VRR. Sure the FPS sucked but in a cool vintage way 😎 ❤
NES was mostly locked 60 FPS. Better than modern console games which are quite often 30 FPS or have irregular frame rates.
VRR flickering on OLED is an OLED problem, not a VRR problem.
3 snobs, 1 cup
You can't polish a turd (homobox series x). This is a MEGA L FOR THE FANQUEERS because they can only game in 720p30fps 😂😂
Wot ??
@@harryhazza626stop supporting the homobox brand
@harryhazza626 It's Ryan Miller aka Hin00bs12 a grown man in their 30's (I kid you not) who attention seeks here daily 🙄 😆
Holy cringe
@@GamingYoshi64 fanqueers are the ones that are cringe