The comments about Aerith are key to her character. I hate how some people portray her as this perfect sngel when the point is shes not. She's a regular girl, just a very kind and fun one.
"very kind" as she constantly tore Cloud down when he didn't act the way she wanted him to act. "very kind" as the publicly embarrassed and humiliated him in front of their friends. "very kind" as she knew Tifa had feelings for him and blatantly flirted with him in front of her ( which made Cloud clearly uncomfortable ) and rubbed it in Tifa's face. Aerith is a mean and nasty person in RE games and flat out unlikeable. Her death came with a good riddance.
@@kellevichy Lol, Aerith jumped to help Cloud save Tifa without a second guess in Remake, without even having met her and in Rebirth Aerith flat out tells Cloud to not take Tifa for granted after they had been fighting, eventhough Tifa didn't say anything about it to her, she could just tell something had happend. Her constanly pushing his buttons is intentional: She knows he is not being himself. She's a Cetra, she can sense that Clouds personality is not his own. The date says it: She is trying to find the real Cloud. And yeah, she also openly flirts with Cloud..... becasue she likes him and Cloud isn't togheter with Tifa. I'm totally a Tifa and Cloud shipper, but she met Cloud before getting to know Tifa, she has no obligation to not go after Cloud if she is interested in him and it's not as if Tifa was making any moves on Cloud. And another thing: Throughout the games Aerith is very jealous of every woman who engages with Cloud, except for Tifa.
@@Mukation I also read it as Aerith pushing Tifa to not sleep on her feelings- like "Dude, if you don't snatch him up..someone else will" Hence that scene in Kalm where she says "We were on a date" and looks at Tifa like "Hmmmmm" She knows exactly what she's doing.
@@MrLightlike78 Yup and after the almost kiss in Gongaga that Yuffie and Cait ruined, Aerith is seen smiling at Tifa and saying something that is not shown to us, but some have found spanish and french transcriptions that says she said "i'm happy for you" indicating to me atleast that she does not feel jealousy towards Tifa (sure deep down she might, but she doesn't show it). I think Aerith definatly has feelings for Cloud too, but she feels that Tifa has more "right" to Cloud than she does and thus does not stand in her way. All three see eachother as important friends regardless of the love triangle that also exist between them.
Speaking of which other than one mention of G-Cells our brooding redhead is nowhere to be found. Nero and Weiss are chilling in Shinra’s basement so he’s gotta be around somewhere…maybe?
It’s a boring retcon that means Cloud will degrade in the future. So they wrote themselves into a corner. Nomura needs to go. The man ruins everything he touches.
I agree with the criticisms of the ending and you've got a damn good point that if Square actually wants to change things then maybe they should go all the way through with it instead of, well doing what they did. Despite the ending being a bit of a wet fart it doesn't take away from the journey being highly enjoyable and I want to see how this ends. Hopefully they can tie everything together in a satisfying way that makes sense but we shall see in 3-4 years.
I agree, 90-95% of both games are fantastic so while i'm critical of how both games ended so far i still freakin love them. The characters are so filled with life and i am enjoying the journey with them. I honestly did not like shoehorning in a boss fight with Sephiroth in Remake, but i also get that having Rufus as the final boss would be incredibly boring. And in Rebirth i think the final boss fight should have happend _before_ Aerith went to the Cetra city (mostly because the adrenialine rush of the multiversal boss fight and the powerful emotional scene of her death did not mix well.) The culmination of that fight could have been what prompted her to go there and that would have made the game better in my opinion. And as you say: How they tie up the trilogy is what is going to make us see how it all turns out and i also hope they tie it up well.
As a Kingdom Hearts fan, and with Nomura directing the FF7 remake, there’s no way the ending is gonna be satisfying. The first 95% of Part 3 should be fantastic though
I don't know if anyone mentioned this but I agree mostly with the Zack part but about Biggs. We did get answer for why he knows Cloud the mercenary. There was a scene when he was dying at the 7 plate tower and I am pretty sure it was made pretty obvious that the whispers saved him and teleported him into the other timeline... Not sure why that happened but that explains why he knows Cloud. The Biggs we see is the Biggs from the og timeline.
We will only know if the changes where worth it in the 3rd part but I have faith in the writing team. Mostly down to how well written the characters are
@@CrazyxEnigma I'm hoping desperately that they don't fuck it up in the 3rd game but I'm more optimistic than anything else that the payoff will be worthwhile
Its pretty sad how badly they botched Aerith's death. If they wanted to slightly change the sequencing of events that's one thing, but to fundamentally change what happens was a huge blunder.
Honestly, the ending really solidified my concerns about them messing with the original story in the first part. It smacks of 'having your cake and eating it too' where they want to make it different to subvert expectations but also keep all the iconic scenes whilst also throwing in painful fan service, all wrapped in a convoluted mess of ideas that undermines the character stories that the original, despite its flaws, made us care about the characters so much
I cared more in ff7 rebirth. Aerith really did die, saying goodbye was final. Cloud is having hallucinations. I actually didn't like both cloud and aerith so much in the og. But ff7 remake and rebirth finally made me empathetic to them.
This is just me but personally I don't fully try to piece the story together till I'm finished with the game so why I was confused my only thought during the whole thing was "Cloud save Aerith" so you can imagine how emotional I was. I do think part 1 of remake ending is better as I wasn't constantly being mind fucked.
I kinda agree with the bit about wanting it all ways. They really should have just picked one and stuck to it instead of implying like 3 different things. Personally I love the idea that Cloud just refuses to accept that he failed to save Aerith so he's deluding himself into a reality where he did. It's what he did with Zack so there's precedent, and the idea that Sephiroth and/or Jenova KNOWS Cloud is fooling himself and is exploiting that is also in line with what he already did in the 97. That's a very dark track for the game to take but one I like because I personally believe there is no way to play the death scene straight when everyone knows what happens (even people who never played FF7, "Aerith dies" is the "Vader is Luke's father" of video games), so twisting it into Cloud refusing to accept that he failed adds an awesome dimension to that scene. Instead we get the devs trying several different things at once, and thats not me complaining they said thats what theyre doing in the Ultimania. Its multiverse Aerith or its ghost Aerith or Aerith is dead and Sephiroth is fucking with a Cloud that refuses to accept it. Just. Pick one.
This story feels like bad fanfic writing I thought up as a kid so I can rewrite a happy ending for myself. It's only when you're older you realize this game was about about coping with loss and finding closure instead of trying to shoehorn nonsense that feels like a I said, bad fanfic writing.
@@D.Middzz well it looks like the writers are going to upend everyone's speculations. I came across a theory that there really are no timelines or alternate worlds.. it looks like this will allow exploration of different scenarios without altering the events in the OG. The end result is how clouds mental state is repaired by aerith mostly guiding , Zack's inspiration, and Tifa pulling Cloud out of a labyrinth setup by sephiroth. It really is an additional detail in the og storyline and ties advent children and other ff7 expansions together. Just wait till it all ends. The clue is the life stream. The analogy is a super powerful computer. Except someone is trying to control the computer. The computer activates its anti malware aerith, Zack to help aerith. The viral payload is in cloud. Aerith uses the life stream to run several simulations as sephiroth does also. This Battle happens in the lifestream and cloud got trapped in it. Aerith is trying to heal cloud's mind. TIFA will be able to pull cloud out of the life stream since Tifa isn't dead. After aerith died, all of these events are happening in clouds mind but with simulations running in the life stream. Sephiroth and Aerith are playing each other with cloud both pawn and king. Tifa is the queen piece sephiroth was trying to discredit in cloud's mind. Zack is the knight.
I think, just as I do with the kingdom hearts franchise, that the writers are unwilling to tell their own story, and throw out BS like, "I hope the fans come up with a bunch of theories," just so they can intentionally subvert everyone's expectations. It's stale at this point, banal and obtuse. And just downright offensive. We liked ff7 for what it was. I don't need multiverse drivel mucking up a beautiful story.
I really enjoyed Rebirth until the last two chapters. Aeirth's (non?) Death is clearly just for shock value, considering they're 100% going to use multiverse rules to have her show up in part 3 along with Zack to rejoin the party. I wasn't sad or mad at Sephiroth that it happened, i was annoyed because they clearly established in chapter 13 that Aerith is already multiversal, so her death means nothing in the current games world. It's also just going to cheapen the parties reaction to her dearth when she inevitably comes back.
Except the ending reveals that Aerith is in fact dead in all tinelines. Because Aerith and Sephiroth both choose realities that include her death for the reunion. Aerith does not want to live because she is aware of what the consequences of her survival entail. The ending of this game was all about revealing the fact that Aerith death will not be overwritten regardless of what timeline we are in. The Aerith that shows up in the ending talking to Cloud is a whisper similar to the Sephiroth that has been doing the same since remake. This whisper Aerith was residing within the Aerith from the remake timeline and following her death she is now free to interract with Cloud. She will likely continue appearing in this form moving forward but she is not alive.
Keep in mind, killing Aerith the same way they did in OG would not have had the same shock value it did in the original. So, they had to write a new ending that balanced fan expectation with fan wish fulfillment. As such, the ending we got.
@@MugiwarasNakamaI'm not sure where you got the idea that Aerith is nothing more than a Whisper anymore. Unless you're the type of fan who just prefers a darker ending to the story.
@@renegade637 Nomura confirmed it. Cloud's hallucinating her survival in other timelines. Cloud is breaking down. Aerith has to be in the life stream to fulfill her role to resist meteor.
@@renegade637it's sort of a bit of a confirmation that in ultimania Nomura describes the ending as the inability to accept someone close is gone also none of the worlds are parallel they also said it.
Whats funny is that not long after Remake came out they said that they woud still follow the og plot. With Rebirth it seems thats true which really highlights how they had no intention of changing the story despite what the ending of Remake would imply.
Thanks Demod, this was super helpful, getting full spoilers and an in depth breakdown is a significant influencer on whether I buy games, games are too damn expensive for taking a chance
I thought the ending with Cloud’s mind being completely broken and him not being able to cope with Aerith’s death is cool as hell. It’s puts so much more intensity to what’s going on. At this point I don’t care if they don’t change anything about the story going forward. It’s going to be a rollercoaster of emotions either way. The wait is the hardest part…
Tbh I would have been very disappointed if these games were carbon copies of the o.g. just with better grahics. The fact that the characters have been fully realised and explored is incredible. I think they have done a superb job and can't wait for the final instalment.
Excellent video, sums up many of my thoughts on the game. The writers did not want to faithfully remake the original story but also had no courage to significantly alter it. The vision is incoherent and the result messy and confusing. Controversial opinion but in the context of the existing Remake story, I would have preferred it if Aerith had lived. At least that would have been a brave decision with clear divergence from the original story. A huge amount is now riding on Part 3 and the Mideel sequence. If they pull it off then perhaps we will look back at this scene more favourably. If not then the entire trilogy will be a failure for many people.
Great video. To give some perspective, my wife knows nothing about FF as a franchise, but she watched me play FF7Remake and Rebirth, having enjoyed the former a lot. As Rebirth went on, however, she got really confused by the convoluted nature of the story, the branching timelines, and the way the game visually confuses you into not knowing what's going on (like with Aerith's death). By the end, as I tried to explain the differences between the remakes and the original and how the meta nature of the changes plays into the story, she completely lost interest and says she'll not be watching me play the conclusion to the trilogy. I firmly believe this is how the average player will feel, and Square will lose a lot of non-hardcore FF players because of their choice not to stick to a 1:1 remake of the original story.
*Spoilers* What annoyed me with Rebirth (besides the game insisting you play their Mario Party scale of mini games) is how everyone kinda went idiot near the end. Mostly around the temple where Cloud is going full Gollum and no one says they should keep an eye on him, or that something is off. Plus I was bummed that you only get about 3 hrs of Zach content in a 46ish hour game. Even was more confusing on how the end of remake shows him going to Midgar, with the end of the DLC showing him arriving at the church by himself to surprise Aerith, which confused him when he saw random survivors and not her there. Then having Rebirth opening up, showing him seeing her and the party on the news while he still carrying Cloud. As if they wanted to revive him into the main timeline, but went "We can't do that."
As someone who never played the original I appreciate your insight on the changes Demod. Also the confirmation that I'm not the only one fucking baffled by that ending.
I'm curious how it'll end too. Yes some devs said they'll follow the events of the original game but how closely? It was established in Remake that Red running with his puppies outcome apparently we don't want they said... So something new and drastic has to occur in part 3. You can't just drop that information on the audience and expect everything to play out 1 for 1 exactly now. I could be wrong but that's bad story telling if it's the case.
Y’all gotta calm down with belittling people who love the new stuff in the game. As an OG fan, I’m not here for it. People can love the new game! It’s gonna be ok
I will add, that i do not like how they present a lot of scenes in epic way with fire works. They couldnt setup good narrative. For example palmer boss fight is not needed after such emotional scene, gi appearing during seto scene, whole Sephiroth setup is ruined for me and etc. Also writers likes to destroy suspense. Like telling immediately about Barret innocence, who is caith sith or whole Cloud spoiler through Zack, Hojo, they even spoil aerith death through Marlene
I’d be happy if Cloud saved Aerith as that seemed to be what the story was building up to since remake, but I’d also accept it if they stuck to how it went down in the original. Then we got whatever that was, a scene that tried to do everything at once but ended up doing nothing for me at the end. Part 3 will make or break this scene, I have confidence they’ll be able to build something interesting out of this, but the possibility that its just too messy to work with is also there. In any case the other 99% of the game is still fantastic and I wouldn’t pretend it wasn’t just bc of one scene.
@@mwbwyattoh no not at all when aerith survived/died for the 3rd time all I felt was annoyance lmao. The last scene with the plane leaving was incredibly touching tho at least there was that.
I agree heavily with cloud showing no remorse … it would have put so much more depth into his arc in this game . Showing you different sides of the the once stoic man would have given the player a deeper connection . It’s down right foolish for the party to not call him out on anything and on top of that trust him as a leader to go through the portal and save aerith . That’s just plainly stupid writing that ignores any kind of organic development
Ill never under stand why development studios will complain about how expensive video games have become, but then make 100 hour long games with 50% being padded, unnecessary, and uninspired filler.
1:54 I'll share one I saw in the wild encountering a Disney Princess on her smoke break. Aerith is the best character imo and certainly my favorite of this cast.
I think the open world has the Elden Ring problem for me- Elden Ring no matter where I went always had something interesting for me to find. Rebirth aside from a couple armor pieces i obtained from caches were kind of boring... 3 handfuls of gold dust from a chest is...underwhelming to put it mildy. I propose in the 3rd part put more armor, weapons, materia out in the field for me to find and combine lifesprings and towers into one thing that we activate..having both feels a little redundant. Otherwise, I really enjoyed my time with the game.
I agree with a majority of this but “gratuitous fan service” being a critique always fascinates me. The whole remake project is fan service. For me, I couldn’t get enough of it.
It was supposed to be for fans of FF7 and not you. For some reason they pandered to all of you though and the result? Flop. Congrats, your shitty weeb fan service ruined a masterpiece.
"Fan service" usually means "lewd and horny" There definitely feels to be a lot of moments that are completely aimed at the player instead of the characters interacting with one another in a natural way
Great write up man 👍 I enjoyed like 90% of rebirth but the ending was a bitter pill to swallow. Rebirth was the catalyst which has ended up in me being thoroughly sick of Alt timeline/multiverse nonsense from writers who value spectacle of substance. Obvs it doesn't help with the wanky try hards who claim "you don't like it, you mustn't get it" There's not much to get. In an attempt to be subversive they devalued their own story but also didn't have the cojones to do something truly original to set itself apart.
Nojima's a fucking hack. I never had faith in his ability to write anything well when he isn't reigned in by someone else, and these two games have done nothing to change my mind. Anything that was good in Rebirth's writing was generally something that was at least hinted at in the OG, whereas anything that was brand new here was decidedly not as good. I could tolerate it in Remake since I was generally enjoying the rest of the game, but in Rebirth I also hated all the ubisoft-style open world bullshit so there wasn't much to stop it from getting under my skin. I wish I liked the game more than I did, but sadly it was just not to be.
I can't think of any way they will be able to resolve this dumb multiverse idea in a satisfying way. I'll obviously play the game and likely enjoy it for the combat mechanics, but I am completely checked out on the story.
It really feels like Nomura and the writers with all that separate worlds stuff have been cribbing from Xenoblade....but clearly don't understand what that was all about in that series. And the comparison is funny considering Xenoblade creator Tetsuya Takahashi not only worked at Square, his directorial debut Xenogears could have been FFVII. Altogether, it feels like they're trying to make the original something it never was and it comes off as awkward, like they didn't learn from the faceplanting of the FFVII Compilation years ago
i think the fact that the most powerful weapons and materia are behind sidequests is worth it how many games have you played where most sidequests rewards are xp and a useless item intwravting with Rebirths world and doing its activities felt rewarding because there were actual tangible rewards (as someone who almost always skips sidequests)
I'm sorry if I just really love Rebirth but everything he said in the bad segment did nothing to change my opinion besides the Costa del Sol section which imo is the worst part bout it. All he said was minor in the grand scheme of things. Like if you don't like exploring the world in an Open-World game then I'm sorry but you just simply don't like playing Open-World games. Plus all that stuff is OPTIONAL. You don't have to do that.
I agree that cloud should be more scared of going crazy but I need to protect the ending. Its lackluster but its because I think they are setting it for powerful and sad moment when cloud get it together and realise what actually happenned and we will se a full aerith death
Love the comedic ending description people who don't know og story or crisis core or anything major just gonna be sitting there in utter confusion. Regarding the Tifa lifestream stuff well it is indeed shuffled early to happen solo but it's probably the only thing I can actively see coming back in the next part when Cloud completely gets shattered and have a good payoff with her being determined and more knowledgeable to save her man. I actively don't see these worlds or timelines have a good payoff though rofl.
I agree with your point about Sephiroth's control the most, in my Hard playthrough I often skipped the scenes that resolved around Cloud being a murderous / abusive psychopath under Sephiroth's control because they just drag on. I have played the OG but I wish they'd just create a way to kill the Jenova cells or something, because I felt like I might as-well just be playing as Sephiroth half the time.
I absolutely enjoyed the game; one of the best ive played in a long time... But i heavily agree with your criticisms of the gameplay and especially the ending. Fantastic review!
Sounds very much my points on it. Loads of filler especially in the open world Chadley parts. And a remorseless cloud. Overall a very good game but leaves you with a fair amount of disappointment of the execution
Those criticisms fell pretty valid, I'd say. I certainly agree that the prospect of a narrative that deviates from the original certainly felt underdeveloped, which probably sounds crazy given how wacky the finale gets. Still, for all the possibilities presented, we're pretty much back where we would've been in the original game.
I was wondering why I hadn't heard a thing about the story of FF7R2, and now I know why. I played FF7R1 when it came to PC, knowing about the continuity ghosts, but I wasn't expecting it to be *that* bad. I don't have any plans to play FF7R2, and seeing this feels gratifying, but also really sad. REMAKO seems like the best option for someone like me who wants a remake of FF7, meanwhile there are other options out there like Persona 3R, Super Mario RPG R, Thousand Year Door R, Star Ocean 2 R, Front Mission 1 & 2 R, and each one is just another slap in the face for Tetsuya Nomura, and Kazushige Nojima. and story aside, I couldn't stand that stagger gauge in FF7R1. Even if it wasn't a constant reminder of FFXIII and its many, many sins, it made anything other than a trash mob feel like a massive sponge. ...also wait, is Gackt *not* in this one? He must be in the third...
A useful bit of info that doesn't really clarify the ending but does add a lot of extra possibilities: According to a comment made many years after the original game, (but at a time when they where adamant about not making a FF7 remake), the head designer clarified that by the time she dies in the Original Aerith has access to the same Cetra knowledge that Jenova absorbed that allowed Sephiroth to self resurrect after the Nibelheim incident. She stays dead because A) Sephiroth's messing with the lifestream makes it impossible till he's defeated at the end of the game and B) She basically can do anything she could do whilst alive from the lifestream and gets to be with Zack there so she's happy to remain there. Its not spelled out at all in the original. Becoming kinda obvious in hindsight thanks to Advent Children, but required the developer to say it outright before anyone got it.
Her being with Zack is important because it helps her understand: -she doesn't know Cloud is a real person but Zack validates that to her - -Actually Zack points out that Tifa is needed to fix Clouds mind -his appearence and memory confirms her love of Cloud which pushes her not to dissolve the moment Sephiroth spirit is beaten at the end of og. This makes it possible for her intervention in AC
@@wmen48Aerith knows everything about Cloud in the remake trilogy. She is acting like she doesn't know because she needs the events to happen as they did before just like Sephiroth does. The ending is easy to follow if you pay attention. Essentially there is a reunion of worlds taking place where Sephiroth AND Aerith are both bringing a bunch of different realities together. Aerith is trying to preserve their eventual victory over Sephiroth while Sephiroth is trying to create a "perfect" world that will never end in order to achieve true eternal immortality which has always been Jenova goal. The ending is showing us that both Sephiroth and Aerith are only choosing worlds that include Aerith death because without her Death Sephiroth cannot be defeated. The Aerith that was talking with cloud in the ending is a whisper similar to the one that keeps popping up to cloud in remake. This whisper was residing within remake Aerith this whole time but now that Aerith is dead she is free to go about and interact with cloud the same way Sephiroth has been.
@@MugiwarasNakama wow wow wow hold your horses. Sephiroth manifested through clones not a whisper. He got to control them after remake ehen we defeated the whisper harbinger. Where you got from that jenova wanted anything? Jenova is an alien of unknown motives. It has been established that Sephiroth overpowered her with his will into subservience. It is even alluded that he doesnt use her cells to control Cloud but his will.
@@MugiwarasNakamaSephiroth is the one that wants the reunion to happen, not Aerith and he wants it to happen so Aerith is dead and stays dead because as it is now even if he kills one Aerith there always a time line where she's alive and Aerith at the end is either from lifestream or another timeline. Also Sephiroth doesnt want eternal world and its never said what Jenova's goal is
I'm glad this isn't in the og. I don't consider canon anything the developers say, especially if it came out during or after the compilation era. Just my personal taste and opinion.
I can see where you're coming from with the ending, but I'd like to give the writers a chance. It's obvious that they're building up a lot for the final game, and given how well they've done with pretty much everything else, I'm excited to see where they go with this. I'm willing to trust that they can nail the final part. Also a few misconceptions you might have. 1. The developers have never stated this was going to be a different journey. It was always meant to be an expansion of the original. 2. Cody Christian has stated that he already recorded the voice lines for Cloud's emotional speech when Aerith dies like in the OG. They just haven't used the recording yet because it's being saved for the third game. Why do you think that is? 3. Degradation isn't a new concept. It was in the original, because SOLDIERS were infused with Jenovah cells. And when they lose control they shut down and become black robes. Cloud has an idea of what degradation may be, but we have not yet reached a point in the story where we as the audience will be let in on the truth of Jenovah's cell manipulation. 4. Also, Tifa in this story comes off more as someone who's desperately trying to keep herself together and sees the moments of kindness and remorse from Cloud as enough to keep her faith that he's still the person she knew before, even if that really just amounts to lying to herself. I find this fascinating and it definitely sets the stage for an emotional resolution once we get that memory restoration scene in part 3. 5. Cid's backstory hasn't been revealed yet. It's too soon to declare that he got ruined.
Beyond me minorly disagreeing with the first point (more out of the devs being very contradictory on if they are going to change things or not, espeically with the ending of Rebirth pretty much out-loud saying "THERE ARE NO PROMISES ABOUT HOW WE'LL END IT. YOU SHOULDN'T EXPECT THE OG".) Yeah pretty much every point here is accurate. Really surpised the video maker didn't catch on to these things. Not to mention Remake/Rebirth/Re(vive?turn?) is as much a sequel to the Compilation of FF7 as it is a reimagining of the OG FF7.
It’s a sequel. Aerith’s foreknowledge caused rippling effects that might drive a wedge between cloud and tifa. It’s possible that cloud’s redemption is being pushed entirely to the third game so that his fall can hit harder than it did originally by driving the party to hate him and leave us questioning if aerith defying fate was ultimately a good plan in the end or if it just gave sephiroth another in to break cloud and the party apart. (Probably so you have to regain them gradually again in the next game) I do chalk tifa’s change in attitude to whatever aerith told tifa in their scene at the kalm inn. We are never made aware of what she shares with tifa here, but we’re reminded that whatever it was is driving her actions to handle cloud’s condition differently now. I do think this confusing ending is there to create a stronger moment in the third game and enforce themes of people being unable to deal with grief while giving us a first person perspective of an unreliable narrator losing the trust of everyone around him. There’s also the chance that aerith’s ultimate goal is to save everyone and somehow survive into the land of the living. The fact that we’ve passed that moment and dont know even if she’s dead or not feels intentional to this game as a sequel. They could have done a 1-1 remake, but that probably would have seen less interest in the third game because we would have nothing to look forward to and the game would be fighting the original for relevance, rather than being complimentary experiences. It hurts not having answers and closure now, but i am still looking forward to seeing what they’re cooking. I’m interested in both the characters and this meta battle between aerith and sephiroth. I feel scared that we’re in for a gut wrenching party split in the next game and a breakdown of these bonds we spent so much time building. I have to look at this as a trilogy because, like the Lord of the Rings films, these weren’t created to stand on their own. Rebirth helped me accept Remake’s ending and the third game has ample room to do the same for this quantum fate situation. (The stamp dogs are our clue as to whats going on in the meta, each one being a marker for which universe our characters are in.) i find their depiction of essentially schroedinger’s cat experiment an interesting way to portray split timelines in a way that i havent seen before. To me it suggests that these fractured timelines are still themselves, rather than a second them that we’re so used to having in these stories. It leaves cloud in a state where he seems like he’s experiencing two realities simultaneously, and we have just enough context to what these cues mean that we can obsess over trying to figure out what these pieces mean. I dismissed remake’s ending, but i feel like rebirth hit me perfectly to make me become more engrossed in its mystery. I was expecting to know if aerith would or wouldnt survive by the end of this, but i’m left looking to the third game with bated breath to find out what the truth of the matter is and what it means for our characters. Will cloud side with sephiroth as zack leads the party? Will aerith make her way from the fractured reality into our own? Will cloud go through a much darker arc where he even becomes a part of sephiroth’s machinations and a boss fight against the party before his redemption? It gives new meaning to aerith’s actions at the end of remake for me. She gave red and marlene visions of her future with the group, but it seems she did it with purpose, and her goal was to create a reality where cloud saved ger from sephiroth…but now i’m wondering what cost that comes with because cloud is thrust away from being aligned with the rest of his friends. It feels like anything could happen and i’m at the edge of my seat. Will the party abandon cloud as he becomes a robed figure? We dont know but we have enough pieces to play with to try to figure out what’s in store for us in 3 years…it could turn out badly but theres obscene opportunity for it to do something amazing, too.
I am in doubt about playing FF7 Rebirth. I love the original and my favorite characters are Vincent and Cid. I just found out that both are not playable, it kinda disappointed me. There are a lot of amazing things on Rebirth that I’m excited to experience and a lot of downfalls that I am afraid of being disappointed - like changing the classic Aerith scene, one of the most important cutscenes on gaming history imo. Should I play this expensive and long ass game? Are there more amazing things or more flaws? I f*ing hate the ghosts btw 😂
I was fine with the whispers in remake ONLY and PURELY because they basically promised they'd never show up again after that end, feels like a slap in the face that they're still here its so fkin dumb
@@justhaku9240 yeah, I was pretty sure the whispers were gone on Rebirth, basically because nobody thinks they are a good idea. It's something that could be ripped off the Remake and nobody would complain.
@@kellevichy Vincent I have no opinion on but I wanna talk about Cid for a second Here's the thing, either what we saw in rebirth whats a new character with a new personality, OR when we visit rocket Town it will go through the same motions of learning his story and him being an abusive ass. Really at this point it could be 50/50 which one they go with but we'll have to wait and find out, but I hope it's the latter
Think in the ending fight with Sephiroth, Cloud was either tripping or they where in the lifestream and all the bs about alternate timelines where being seen before out eyes. Zach and Areith living only exist to make more games. If this game is doing great and talks about it are still going on and SE thinks it'll sell, I bet Zach and Areith live. If the game sucks. They probably die and cloud is just tripping. GG.
Who are you referring to Nomura or Nojima or somebody else? I'm pretty sure Aerith and her dying in the original is because of Hironobu Sakaguchi(man's a legend in gaming if you're young or new to gaming) and his dealing with the sudden passing and grieving of his mom dying while they were developing the game. He hasn't been with Square for about two decades now right before SquareSoft merged with Enix and left the company after being unable to salvage the terrible Spirits Within movie.
@@CrazyxEnigma this is actually a long-standing internet made myth as his loss took place 10 years beforehand and was confirmed by Nomora in 2003 in an interview with Edge magazine as him stating it was some of the first writing he ever did for a video game as he branched out from just being an artist I only know this due to the “why ff7 is important” vid where it’s covered
I loved it. Every Final Fantasy has a bunch of weird bullshit and time wasting. There are so many varied epic set pieces and so many characters and moves to play with against the awesome boss and enemy variety. 10/10 for me.
I know that a lot of people are confused about the ending and it’s more than fair but I feel like people slightly gloss over something important that being Sephiroth’s lore dump with Cloud before the end specifically the line “when the boundaries of fate are broken, new worlds emerge” or something along those lines. It doesn’t solidify everything I know that but that’s what creates an alternate timeline where Cloud breaks through the Whispers control and saves Aerith, make no mistake that the “original timeline” Aerith is very much dead but it’s the inevitable plot hole of numerous timelines/worlds that there is an infinite amount of people and events taking place all the smallest fraction different from one another
It’s not an “infinite” amount of timelines, only the number of times that fate has been breached, and in the end those few worlds will merge into one where Sephiroth can absorb all the lifestream from ALL worlds and not just one so the stakes are way higher this time which is actually pretty sweet when you step back and look at it. As far as Aeriths fate goes, it actually makes more sense that she’s saved this time (hence unknown journey) but it’s looking more and more like their just keeping her a plot device like the original. YAWN, could have just played the original or they shoulda just kept this remake faithful if their not gonna have any guts and take chances.
@@theonecalledlamorak6446fair enough on all of that honestly the more I think about the ending and everything surrounding it the more I wish they ended this game later at the Northern Crater or at the very least given some kind of more solid answer just to make things even 1% clearer but I guess that’s the price to pay for a 3 part series
You are asking for answers to questions that aren't meant to be answered yet. The devs want you to question if Cloud's mind is breaking at the denial of Aerith's death causing him to see her still alive, or if he's caught seeing between two timelines where he did in fact save Aerith. This game is clearly meant to be the darkest hour, with Cloud completely estranged from everyone, even Tifa, b/c he's an unreliable narrator. An unreliable leader. You're judging the ending as a conclusion and not meant to set up the final act. Part 3 will show whether is payed off or not. Until then, I'm excited to once again not know completely where this story is going.
Thank you for this video. It was very well written and I appreciated your insight. I have to agree with the ending. #1, Aerith's ending is too confusing. #2, that many phases in the last boss ruined the impact. Part of the reason it was so impactful in the original was that her music was playing against a boss right after it happened. II do agree with the importance of death. Sigh. Maybe something's going to be happening in the third installment that pulls it all together. Either way, thanks for the vid!
Personally i think the multiverse is the way to go we allways had inconstincies with like genesis and dirge of cerberus this is a way of tidying up these inconstiences without having to erase anything plus everyone id doing multiverse I get its overdone but wr just gotta accept its the current trend like the trend of playing the bad side in early 2000s
I only recently finished playing the Remake. After 30+ hours, I had only just left Midgar. Then I learned after 100 hours in Rebirth, the story ends in the Temple of the Ancients. I decided to play the OG instead. I’m only 12 hours in and already past the Gold Saucer. These new games are crammed with fluff, and the immaturity of the writing is too cringey for me. I’ve given up on these games.
For all intents and purposes they did mention the scenario for part 3 is already written. And considering the whole Jungian nature of Aerith's fate, I'm relatively interested even if it came at the cost of muddying an iconic scene.
I can see their rationale in not even bothering to try since a lot of people have played the original and they can't recreate the same emotional impact doing it again beat for beat since you know it's coming and speaking as someone who was spoiled on it long before I played it yeah it did rob me of feeling that devastation so many others felt.
Like you, I was fully on board with this game until the last 1.5 chapters of it. Then it completely killed my enjoyment. Zero faith they manage to save this trainwreck in the third game.
I think the ending is great and still the same (minus the long fight) but they're saving it for Part 3 and here's a few reasons why.. 1. The final credits shows every cutscene but conveniently skips everything that is from his perspective after that scene as it's "wrong" 2. The lowering into the water happened (that's why they sit at the water) but Cloud blocked it out of his mind as in his mind Aerith is fine. 3. Aerith is 100% dead like usual but Cloud still sees her because he's in denial & crazy. The only time it's her actual ghost is her saying" goodbye.." 4. When Cloud "wakes up" in part 3 is when we'll see the true events + the lowering into the water etc (like the OG)
1. Why do you think that is? Perhaps it's because Sephiroth has succeeded in his first steps of driving Cloud mad. 2. Given how much the developers have scrutinized the tiniest details from the original, it wouldn't surprise me if they covered this scene in the memory restoration scene that part 3 will definitely have. 3. I don't think he's crazy here. I think Sephiroth is showing Cloud a hallucination of Aerith to make him think she's still alive. Sephiroth is definitely capable of doing something like that. 4. Imagine the weight of the guilt he would feel, not just from being told he was never at Nibelheim and had taken Zack's place, but that he failed to save Aerith and he didn't even realize it. Sephiroth could probably be like, "If you were a real person, why couldn't you remember those things? Simple. Because nothing you feel is real. All of it has just been one set up for you to fulfill your destiny as my pawn. As Jenovah's fragment."
@@misterhoobomaster Apparently they plan to have it released in 2027. Right on time for FFVII's 30th anniversary. There's a lot riding on this finale. Here's hoping they get it right. Every news update from the ultimania is getting me more excited than before.
I swear the next one or the next one after is going to go meta and break the fourth Wall by itself in some form And making this final Fantasy 7.2 Advent children doesn't count shut up
I totally get the complaint of side/open world monotony and repetitive nature, could def be improved for the third installment. But for me personally i didn't really mind it cuz I loved the combat and the world/characters so much that I just wanted to do it all regardless, and had fun the whole time.
Yeah I feel the same, I felt pretty empty and broken after the first time, but upon sitting and reflecting about it and giving myself a bit of time to...well..process everything that happened SO damn fast (I will admit the final chapter has some pacing issues cuz they're cramming way too much into my feeble adult brain) it's an ending that sets the 3rd game up pretty well. And makes me WAY more interested to see how broken cloud will interact with people until everything is revealed to him. He's WAY more merciless atm. The only thing keeping him sane and in check *some* times seems to be aerith. I'm sure that the only one who can truly restore the real cloud is still gonna be tifa in the end, but for now aerith is the only thing keeping him from completely succumbing to soldier degradation. Albeit, she's now doing it from the lifestream as opposed to (for now) the actual party.
Having played OG 7 multiple times, makes both Remake/Rebirth worse in my opinion. The problem is not the changes; it's that they didn't change it enough to justify it being three games. The plot moves pretty much in the same way. You go to the same places, the key events occur in the same order with a few changes here and there. The pacing of those games is painfully slow, the amount of padding, especially in the first game, is just too much. Having played the original, you know where you go next, you know what's going to happen. However, in this new version, everything takes too long to happen. A section that would take 30 minutes or so in OG can take up to 3 hours, with new things happening that add nothing to the main plot. And then there is the ending; they actually blundered it. I don't understand the direction of this game at all. Part three is going to need to be something really special to convince me that this project needs to be a three-part game. I didn't like Remake; Rebirth, on the other hand, is a good game on its own. However, this whole project is weird. I believe Remake and Rebirth could have been a single game.
If they tried to combine them as is we wouldn't have seen the FF7 Remake they announced in 2015 until this year in 2024 nine years development for a single game? (Perhaps even longer if they had to switch midway through to the PS5 and who would want to go back to a PS4 in 2024 when the console has been out of date for years if they didn't). Everyone would've been wondering what's gone wrong and that long isn't sustainable when looking at it purely as a product. I get the gripes with the plot beats being to similar but I don't agree that the expanded stuff is purely padding I certainly care a lot more about these characters as people more than I ever did in the original and that's been a huge emphasis with the Remakes to flesh out the main cast and have more characters in general to make the world feel more lived in. Ultimately a remaster was not what Square decided to do and that is the only way we could've realistically gotten the whole thing in one go. Somebody at Square was recently asked about a hypothetical FF6 remake(Kitase if I remember right) and he said it would be impossible the technology isn't quite there and gave a ballpark estimate of it taking twenty years! If part 3 of the remake releases in 2027 in time for the thirty year anniversary development time that's twelve years of combined development time only going back to the announcement in 2015 as when they officially started.
Part if the reason Remake took so long to make was because it was originally outsourced to another developer , Cyberconnect2 (made the .Hack series). They started working on the game in 2014, before it was announced in 2015. But sometime around 2017, Square Enix pulled that team off the project and more or less started over from scratch. So had that not happened, the first game could have come out in 2018 or early 2019, and Rebirth in 2022 sometime. Each game taking about 3 years or so from the start of development.
I've seen a lot of people that are saying they *ruined* the series cuz they fucked up THE iconic scene for this part of the game. And that's fine, it's their opinion. But imo it's done pretty well. People have had so many expectations especially with multiple timeliness that perhaps aerith makes it to the third game, and I'm pretty sure she still will be. But that's just it. The scene wasn't as impactful as the OG especially for people who played it. It left us feeling..hollow, empty..frustrated. kind of like how cloud would feel. And that, is brilliantly done. Don't get me wrong aerith is my favorite in the ff7 series so I broke down when I *THOUGHT* we had saved her and broke down even more when we fought sephiroth in..between worlds? Or the lifestream? Not sure. But I certainly felt empty and broken by the end as well. Took me some time to process how I actually felt about the scene and the ending. That being said... Nomura and hamaguchi are huuuge star wars fans and rebirth's ending, kind of feels like ESB. And I don't think their goal was to really try to make her death as impactful as the original cuz it's just not possible. They made us mourn and grieve, or just feel angry...in the same way the party probably does. Made us as fragmented and confused as cloud is. Maybe it was a bit too convoluted but I think that to understand what their original idea for ff7 is (and yes, the OG was not the full vision, that's been stated multiple times) we need to experience the 3rd part first. And see how they deal with the OTHER most iconic scene of the original: when clouds mind gets completely broken and then subsequently put back together again. As they say, let them cook. They did a fantastic job with the character writing in this game and it's only the last chapter or chapter and a half people are upset about, but we don't have the full story yet. Give them time. ❤
I don’t mean to be rude but this reads like someone who is scrambling hard to defend something. You keep saying “they didn’t want to make it as impactful, they wanted to make us grieve”, what is that logic? We grieved Aerith because the scene was so impactful not because they tried to make it less so lmao. Also your comparison of how we feel “frustrated just like Cloud and the part would have”…what? How does me feeling frustrated over a messy video game plot even comes close to what one would feel over not being able to save their friend from death? I do agree with the other things you said tho let’em cook with part 3.
Yea I mostly agree with all your thoughts. This version of the story is much different than the original and is heading down a different path for Cloud. And the story is very deliberately made convoluted and confusing at the end. And while this sucks at the time, it's essentially a message from the writers that this is not a remaster of the original game. You can't tell the same story as the original and have it land with the same impact. They want you to have time to let that absorb.
The way I see it, the ending is the same as remake, there for the purpose of creating intrigue while waiting for the next part. If you don’t like it that’s fair but based on how good the rest of the game is I have faith the third part will deliver on the spirit of the original
So it's multiple timelines. The timeline in the remake trilogy, Holy was not activated as aerith was not killed, cloud stops it. Aerith takes cloud through multiple timelines after the Thing happens just long enough to find a activated Holy. The main timeline you control zack in is a world aerith created when her and cloud fell down at the temple of the ancients. Zack finds out about this and begins junping timelines to protect aerith from sephiroth who knows she has Holy, the one thing that can stop him. So when the Thing happens at the end, aerith is already in the lifestream and knows which timeline will protect the planet and she already knows she has to die and cloud had to give sephiroth the Black materia. Its great story telling. But failed on the execution. They really need to explain the timeline thing in the final game
The Stamp iconography looks different in the Aerith Cloud date timeline compared to Zack's timeline(s), there's at least two divergences and most notably we don't see a Stamp when Sephiroth slaps Zack away so who knows if it was the same one as Aerith Cloud or a different one entirely.
Zack - paladin type character. Above average fighting skills but most importantly he raises the spirit of everyone around. His dream was being a hero. CC while a very bad game gave that to him in his death. Cloud - a new Cecil. A dark knight who has a spin on a redemtion arc. This being scifi genes in your body, awkward personality with weak will and being unable to control your body. It actually is a nice twist if it pays up good. Tifa - giving her a solo moment in the lifestream is bad because that should be when they reconnect with Cloud TOGETHER. Og version of her avoids his memories because he knows things she doesn't and that makes her doubt her own.
I kind of disagree with your take on the open world, at least some aspects of it. I think the discovery of the towers, mako springs which lead into unique boss encounters, lore behind the summons, the descriptions behind the fiend challenges, etc. give a good deal of world-building in a game where saving the world is the goal. It's much more pronounced and expanding on than in the original.
@@David-nd4to how else would it have been done? It kills two birds with one stone, you get opportunities to level up your characters and materia while also learning more about the world.
@@Borg9000that’s the thing. I’m not a game designer. I just feel it wasn’t the best way. It’s very 2012 Ubisoft. Thanks for asking though. I can’t really give you a solid answer
Im not going to agree that the 'ending' was bad because there is still another part to come. It didnt feel like an ending it felt like an intermission. They know this triology will exist for decades maybe a hundred years. They are designing the overall experience to be played back to back to back.
They have made this into a story that is not and never will be a classic. The storytelling is so bad at this point I just wonder if anyone actually understands what good writing is these days. These games feel more like a Christmas tree with presents underneath it doesn’t feel like a story with any kind of real planning.
The best part of having to speculate about how the story is going, due largely to cloud's unreliable perspective, are the fan theories that add loads of excellent possibilities. Videos like this, though, are a bit of a downer.
The comments about Aerith are key to her character.
I hate how some people portray her as this perfect sngel when the point is shes not.
She's a regular girl, just a very kind and fun one.
"very kind" as she constantly tore Cloud down when he didn't act the way she wanted him to act.
"very kind" as the publicly embarrassed and humiliated him in front of their friends.
"very kind" as she knew Tifa had feelings for him and blatantly flirted with him in front of her ( which made Cloud clearly uncomfortable ) and rubbed it in Tifa's face.
Aerith is a mean and nasty person in RE games and flat out unlikeable. Her death came with a good riddance.
@@kellevichy Lol, Aerith jumped to help Cloud save Tifa without a second guess in Remake, without even having met her and in Rebirth Aerith flat out tells Cloud to not take Tifa for granted after they had been fighting, eventhough Tifa didn't say anything about it to her, she could just tell something had happend.
Her constanly pushing his buttons is intentional: She knows he is not being himself. She's a Cetra, she can sense that Clouds personality is not his own. The date says it: She is trying to find the real Cloud.
And yeah, she also openly flirts with Cloud..... becasue she likes him and Cloud isn't togheter with Tifa. I'm totally a Tifa and Cloud shipper, but she met Cloud before getting to know Tifa, she has no obligation to not go after Cloud if she is interested in him and it's not as if Tifa was making any moves on Cloud.
And another thing: Throughout the games Aerith is very jealous of every woman who engages with Cloud, except for Tifa.
@@kellevichy who hurt you?
@@Mukation I also read it as Aerith pushing Tifa to not sleep on her feelings- like "Dude, if you don't snatch him up..someone else will"
Hence that scene in Kalm where she says "We were on a date" and looks at Tifa like "Hmmmmm"
She knows exactly what she's doing.
@@MrLightlike78 Yup and after the almost kiss in Gongaga that Yuffie and Cait ruined, Aerith is seen smiling at Tifa and saying something that is not shown to us, but some have found spanish and french transcriptions that says she said "i'm happy for you" indicating to me atleast that she does not feel jealousy towards Tifa (sure deep down she might, but she doesn't show it).
I think Aerith definatly has feelings for Cloud too, but she feels that Tifa has more "right" to Cloud than she does and thus does not stand in her way. All three see eachother as important friends regardless of the love triangle that also exist between them.
26:50
Crisis Core: FFVII actually introduced "SOLDIER degradation." It was the big character issue motivating the whole Genesis bullshit.
Speaking of which other than one mention of G-Cells our brooding redhead is nowhere to be found. Nero and Weiss are chilling in Shinra’s basement so he’s gotta be around somewhere…maybe?
It’s a boring retcon that means Cloud will degrade in the future. So they wrote themselves into a corner.
Nomura needs to go. The man ruins everything he touches.
I can't believe they got away with Sephiroth raw dogging Cloud in that 3 hour cutscene
Brought to you by Dennis Reynolds
At about the hour and 45 minute mark, it really crosses the line disrespecting our time as gamers.
It was a bold decision for sure. I’m curious how act 3 will expand on that scene
Is this what counts as comedy these days?
@@GonadsOfGodrey
Hehe
I agree with the criticisms of the ending and you've got a damn good point that if Square actually wants to change things then maybe they should go all the way through with it instead of, well doing what they did. Despite the ending being a bit of a wet fart it doesn't take away from the journey being highly enjoyable and I want to see how this ends. Hopefully they can tie everything together in a satisfying way that makes sense but we shall see in 3-4 years.
I agree, 90-95% of both games are fantastic so while i'm critical of how both games ended so far i still freakin love them. The characters are so filled with life and i am enjoying the journey with them.
I honestly did not like shoehorning in a boss fight with Sephiroth in Remake, but i also get that having Rufus as the final boss would be incredibly boring.
And in Rebirth i think the final boss fight should have happend _before_ Aerith went to the Cetra city (mostly because the adrenialine rush of the multiversal boss fight and the powerful emotional scene of her death did not mix well.)
The culmination of that fight could have been what prompted her to go there and that would have made the game better in my opinion.
And as you say: How they tie up the trilogy is what is going to make us see how it all turns out and i also hope they tie it up well.
As a Kingdom Hearts fan, and with Nomura directing the FF7 remake, there’s no way the ending is gonna be satisfying. The first 95% of Part 3 should be fantastic though
I don't know if anyone mentioned this but I agree mostly with the Zack part but about Biggs. We did get answer for why he knows Cloud the mercenary. There was a scene when he was dying at the 7 plate tower and I am pretty sure it was made pretty obvious that the whispers saved him and teleported him into the other timeline... Not sure why that happened but that explains why he knows Cloud. The Biggs we see is the Biggs from the og timeline.
We will only know if the changes where worth it in the 3rd part but I have faith in the writing team. Mostly down to how well written the characters are
Yep. Character writing has been f*cking fantastic. We shall see if Square is able to wrap everything up in a satisfying manner that makes sense.
Yeah I'm hopeful but I totally get why people are annoyed by the stuff left hanging in part 2. Kinda risky
This is where I stand.
They have killed it in that department which means they get what makes VII special
So why spend $70 for this if it won’t be worth it for another 4-6 years (maybe)
@@CrazyxEnigma I'm hoping desperately that they don't fuck it up in the 3rd game but I'm more optimistic than anything else that the payoff will be worthwhile
Its pretty sad how badly they botched Aerith's death. If they wanted to slightly change the sequencing of events that's one thing, but to fundamentally change what happens was a huge blunder.
Honestly, the ending really solidified my concerns about them messing with the original story in the first part. It smacks of 'having your cake and eating it too' where they want to make it different to subvert expectations but also keep all the iconic scenes whilst also throwing in painful fan service, all wrapped in a convoluted mess of ideas that undermines the character stories that the original, despite its flaws, made us care about the characters so much
I cared more in ff7 rebirth. Aerith really did die, saying goodbye was final. Cloud is having hallucinations. I actually didn't like both cloud and aerith so much in the og. But ff7 remake and rebirth finally made me empathetic to them.
This is just me but personally I don't fully try to piece the story together till I'm finished with the game so why I was confused my only thought during the whole thing was "Cloud save Aerith" so you can imagine how emotional I was. I do think part 1 of remake ending is better as I wasn't constantly being mind fucked.
I kinda agree with the bit about wanting it all ways. They really should have just picked one and stuck to it instead of implying like 3 different things. Personally I love the idea that Cloud just refuses to accept that he failed to save Aerith so he's deluding himself into a reality where he did. It's what he did with Zack so there's precedent, and the idea that Sephiroth and/or Jenova KNOWS Cloud is fooling himself and is exploiting that is also in line with what he already did in the 97. That's a very dark track for the game to take but one I like because I personally believe there is no way to play the death scene straight when everyone knows what happens (even people who never played FF7, "Aerith dies" is the "Vader is Luke's father" of video games), so twisting it into Cloud refusing to accept that he failed adds an awesome dimension to that scene.
Instead we get the devs trying several different things at once, and thats not me complaining they said thats what theyre doing in the Ultimania. Its multiverse Aerith or its ghost Aerith or Aerith is dead and Sephiroth is fucking with a Cloud that refuses to accept it. Just. Pick one.
This story feels like bad fanfic writing I thought up as a kid so I can rewrite a happy ending for myself. It's only when you're older you realize this game was about about coping with loss and finding closure instead of trying to shoehorn nonsense that feels like a I said, bad fanfic writing.
@@D.Middzz well it looks like the writers are going to upend everyone's speculations. I came across a theory that there really are no timelines or alternate worlds.. it looks like this will allow exploration of different scenarios without altering the events in the OG. The end result is how clouds mental state is repaired by aerith mostly guiding , Zack's inspiration, and Tifa pulling Cloud out of a labyrinth setup by sephiroth. It really is an additional detail in the og storyline and ties advent children and other ff7 expansions together. Just wait till it all ends. The clue is the life stream. The analogy is a super powerful computer. Except someone is trying to control the computer. The computer activates its anti malware aerith, Zack to help aerith. The viral payload is in cloud. Aerith uses the life stream to run several simulations as sephiroth does also. This Battle happens in the lifestream and cloud got trapped in it. Aerith is trying to heal cloud's mind. TIFA will be able to pull cloud out of the life stream since Tifa isn't dead. After aerith died, all of these events are happening in clouds mind but with simulations running in the life stream. Sephiroth and Aerith are playing each other with cloud both pawn and king. Tifa is the queen piece sephiroth was trying to discredit in cloud's mind. Zack is the knight.
Had no idea I was subscribed to this channel but I'm glad to have watch this.
I also don't remember having ever subscribed or even seen this channel. Is youtube doing something weird?
@@TheBlueSpikes When is YT never wierd? Lol.
I think, just as I do with the kingdom hearts franchise, that the writers are unwilling to tell their own story, and throw out BS like, "I hope the fans come up with a bunch of theories," just so they can intentionally subvert everyone's expectations.
It's stale at this point, banal and obtuse.
And just downright offensive. We liked ff7 for what it was. I don't need multiverse drivel mucking up a beautiful story.
I really enjoyed Rebirth until the last two chapters. Aeirth's (non?) Death is clearly just for shock value, considering they're 100% going to use multiverse rules to have her show up in part 3 along with Zack to rejoin the party.
I wasn't sad or mad at Sephiroth that it happened, i was annoyed because they clearly established in chapter 13 that Aerith is already multiversal, so her death means nothing in the current games world. It's also just going to cheapen the parties reaction to her dearth when she inevitably comes back.
Except the ending reveals that Aerith is in fact dead in all tinelines. Because Aerith and Sephiroth both choose realities that include her death for the reunion. Aerith does not want to live because she is aware of what the consequences of her survival entail. The ending of this game was all about revealing the fact that Aerith death will not be overwritten regardless of what timeline we are in. The Aerith that shows up in the ending talking to Cloud is a whisper similar to the Sephiroth that has been doing the same since remake. This whisper Aerith was residing within the Aerith from the remake timeline and following her death she is now free to interract with Cloud. She will likely continue appearing in this form moving forward but she is not alive.
Keep in mind, killing Aerith the same way they did in OG would not have had the same shock value it did in the original. So, they had to write a new ending that balanced fan expectation with fan wish fulfillment. As such, the ending we got.
@@MugiwarasNakamaI'm not sure where you got the idea that Aerith is nothing more than a Whisper anymore. Unless you're the type of fan who just prefers a darker ending to the story.
@@renegade637 Nomura confirmed it. Cloud's hallucinating her survival in other timelines. Cloud is breaking down. Aerith has to be in the life stream to fulfill her role to resist meteor.
@@renegade637it's sort of a bit of a confirmation that in ultimania Nomura describes the ending as the inability to accept someone close is gone also none of the worlds are parallel they also said it.
Whats funny is that not long after Remake came out they said that they woud still follow the og plot. With Rebirth it seems thats true which really highlights how they had no intention of changing the story despite what the ending of Remake would imply.
Thanks Demod, this was super helpful, getting full spoilers and an in depth breakdown is a significant influencer on whether I buy games, games are too damn expensive for taking a chance
I thought the ending with Cloud’s mind being completely broken and him not being able to cope with Aerith’s death is cool as hell. It’s puts so much more intensity to what’s going on. At this point I don’t care if they don’t change anything about the story going forward. It’s going to be a rollercoaster of emotions either way. The wait is the hardest part…
Tbh I would have been very disappointed if these games were carbon copies of the o.g. just with better grahics. The fact that the characters have been fully realised and explored is incredible.
I think they have done a superb job and can't wait for the final instalment.
Excellent video, sums up many of my thoughts on the game. The writers did not want to faithfully remake the original story but also had no courage to significantly alter it. The vision is incoherent and the result messy and confusing.
Controversial opinion but in the context of the existing Remake story, I would have preferred it if Aerith had lived. At least that would have been a brave decision with clear divergence from the original story.
A huge amount is now riding on Part 3 and the Mideel sequence. If they pull it off then perhaps we will look back at this scene more favourably. If not then the entire trilogy will be a failure for many people.
Great video.
To give some perspective, my wife knows nothing about FF as a franchise, but she watched me play FF7Remake and Rebirth, having enjoyed the former a lot. As Rebirth went on, however, she got really confused by the convoluted nature of the story, the branching timelines, and the way the game visually confuses you into not knowing what's going on (like with Aerith's death). By the end, as I tried to explain the differences between the remakes and the original and how the meta nature of the changes plays into the story, she completely lost interest and says she'll not be watching me play the conclusion to the trilogy. I firmly believe this is how the average player will feel, and Square will lose a lot of non-hardcore FF players because of their choice not to stick to a 1:1 remake of the original story.
*Spoilers*
What annoyed me with Rebirth (besides the game insisting you play their Mario Party scale of mini games) is how everyone kinda went idiot near the end. Mostly around the temple where Cloud is going full Gollum and no one says they should keep an eye on him, or that something is off.
Plus I was bummed that you only get about 3 hrs of Zach content in a 46ish hour game. Even was more confusing on how the end of remake shows him going to Midgar, with the end of the DLC showing him arriving at the church by himself to surprise Aerith, which confused him when he saw random survivors and not her there.
Then having Rebirth opening up, showing him seeing her and the party on the news while he still carrying Cloud. As if they wanted to revive him into the main timeline, but went "We can't do that."
As someone who never played the original I appreciate your insight on the changes Demod. Also the confirmation that I'm not the only one fucking baffled by that ending.
I am really digging the new stuff in this trilogy. I'm so hyped to see how it all ends in part 3.
New product...yayyyy!
@@mikespearwood3914don’t ask questions, just consume next product.
I'm curious how it'll end too. Yes some devs said they'll follow the events of the original game but how closely?
It was established in Remake that Red running with his puppies outcome apparently we don't want they said... So something new and drastic has to occur in part 3.
You can't just drop that information on the audience and expect everything to play out 1 for 1 exactly now. I could be wrong but that's bad story telling if it's the case.
Y’all gotta calm down with belittling people who love the new stuff in the game. As an OG fan, I’m not here for it. People can love the new game! It’s gonna be ok
I'm loving these new videos already!
This is a fantastic review. Thank you for not just blindly prising the game.
I will add, that i do not like how they present a lot of scenes in epic way with fire works. They couldnt setup good narrative. For example palmer boss fight is not needed after such emotional scene, gi appearing during seto scene, whole Sephiroth setup is ruined for me and etc.
Also writers likes to destroy suspense. Like telling immediately about Barret innocence, who is caith sith or whole Cloud spoiler through Zack, Hojo, they even spoil aerith death through Marlene
I’d be happy if Cloud saved Aerith as that seemed to be what the story was building up to since remake, but I’d also accept it if they stuck to how it went down in the original. Then we got whatever that was, a scene that tried to do everything at once but ended up doing nothing for me at the end.
Part 3 will make or break this scene, I have confidence they’ll be able to build something interesting out of this, but the possibility that its just too messy to work with is also there.
In any case the other 99% of the game is still fantastic and I wouldn’t pretend it wasn’t just bc of one scene.
Kinda makes you feel as empty or lost as cloud or the party would, huh 🤔
@@mwbwyattoh no not at all when aerith survived/died for the 3rd time all I felt was annoyance lmao. The last scene with the plane leaving was incredibly touching tho at least there was that.
I agree heavily with cloud showing no remorse … it would have put so much more depth into his arc in this game . Showing you different sides of the the once stoic man would have given the player a deeper connection . It’s down right foolish for the party to not call him out on anything and on top of that trust him as a leader to go through the portal and save aerith . That’s just plainly stupid writing that ignores any kind of organic development
Ill never under stand why development studios will complain about how expensive video games have become, but then make 100 hour long games with 50% being padded, unnecessary, and uninspired filler.
1:54 I'll share one I saw in the wild encountering a Disney Princess on her smoke break. Aerith is the best character imo and certainly my favorite of this cast.
Been saying it since Remake but yall fr went LALALALA until Rebirth blew up on your faces. Glorious.
I think the open world has the Elden Ring problem for me- Elden Ring no matter where I went always had something interesting for me to find. Rebirth aside from a couple armor pieces i obtained from caches were kind of boring... 3 handfuls of gold dust from a chest is...underwhelming to put it mildy.
I propose in the 3rd part put more armor, weapons, materia out in the field for me to find and combine lifesprings and towers into one thing that we activate..having both feels a little redundant.
Otherwise, I really enjoyed my time with the game.
I think that after the remake trilogy is complete they should make just a remake the same game with newer graphics
I agree with a majority of this but “gratuitous fan service” being a critique always fascinates me. The whole remake project is fan service. For me, I couldn’t get enough of it.
It was supposed to be for fans of FF7 and not you. For some reason they pandered to all of you though and the result? Flop.
Congrats, your shitty weeb fan service ruined a masterpiece.
"Fan service" usually means "lewd and horny"
There definitely feels to be a lot of moments that are completely aimed at the player instead of the characters interacting with one another in a natural way
Great write up man 👍 I enjoyed like 90% of rebirth but the ending was a bitter pill to swallow. Rebirth was the catalyst which has ended up in me being thoroughly sick of Alt timeline/multiverse nonsense from writers who value spectacle of substance. Obvs it doesn't help with the wanky try hards who claim "you don't like it, you mustn't get it" There's not much to get. In an attempt to be subversive they devalued their own story but also didn't have the cojones to do something truly original to set itself apart.
The end of this game was like listening to someone stir mayonnaise for 3 hours.
Commenting for the algorithm. Will watch later after I beat the game!
What a great video, and title as well. Does a great job summarizing the game.
Nojima's a fucking hack. I never had faith in his ability to write anything well when he isn't reigned in by someone else, and these two games have done nothing to change my mind. Anything that was good in Rebirth's writing was generally something that was at least hinted at in the OG, whereas anything that was brand new here was decidedly not as good. I could tolerate it in Remake since I was generally enjoying the rest of the game, but in Rebirth I also hated all the ubisoft-style open world bullshit so there wasn't much to stop it from getting under my skin.
I wish I liked the game more than I did, but sadly it was just not to be.
Seconded. If I could refund this trash I would.
At least you bothered trying it out and I don't blame you. At least you know that part 3 will for sure not interest you
I can't think of any way they will be able to resolve this dumb multiverse idea in a satisfying way. I'll obviously play the game and likely enjoy it for the combat mechanics, but I am completely checked out on the story.
It really feels like Nomura and the writers with all that separate worlds stuff have been cribbing from Xenoblade....but clearly don't understand what that was all about in that series. And the comparison is funny considering Xenoblade creator Tetsuya Takahashi not only worked at Square, his directorial debut Xenogears could have been FFVII. Altogether, it feels like they're trying to make the original something it never was and it comes off as awkward, like they didn't learn from the faceplanting of the FFVII Compilation years ago
Bad: Everything that has to do with Kyrie.
There's a new merc...!
Imagine Kyrie somehow found her way to the temple and tried to play her merc sht with berserk Cloud. I’d enjoy every minute of it.
Bro I hate Kyrie too
Really? Kyrie and not Chadley?
i think the fact that the most powerful weapons and materia are behind sidequests is worth it
how many games have you played where most sidequests rewards are xp and a useless item
intwravting with Rebirths world and doing its activities felt rewarding because there were actual tangible rewards
(as someone who almost always skips sidequests)
Really great video! I was wondering if you plan on ranking the bosses like you did for Remake?
The reasons you laid out at 4:00 make the ending so much worse. It deepens the feelings.
Remake be like: "Things will no longer be the same"
Rebirth be like: "Except they will"
It is clear that they had nothing planned for this triology
Your "the bad" segment absolutely destroyed this game for me. I want to love it, but holy shit when this game is bad it's BAD
I'm sorry if I just really love Rebirth but everything he said in the bad segment did nothing to change my opinion besides the Costa del Sol section which imo is the worst part bout it. All he said was minor in the grand scheme of things. Like if you don't like exploring the world in an Open-World game then I'm sorry but you just simply don't like playing Open-World games. Plus all that stuff is OPTIONAL. You don't have to do that.
@@felipezamora9711You don’t have to get SSS in Devil May Cry either, but the difference is that you WANT to do it.
@@TheMilhouseExperience key word WANT not HAVE
@@felipezamora9711 the game is shit. Deal with it. You like shit games.
I agree that cloud should be more scared of going crazy but I need to protect the ending. Its lackluster but its because I think they are setting it for powerful and sad moment when cloud get it together and realise what actually happenned and we will se a full aerith death
Love the comedic ending description people who don't know og story or crisis core or anything major just gonna be sitting there in utter confusion. Regarding the Tifa lifestream stuff well it is indeed shuffled early to happen solo but it's probably the only thing I can actively see coming back in the next part when Cloud completely gets shattered and have a good payoff with her being determined and more knowledgeable to save her man. I actively don't see these worlds or timelines have a good payoff though rofl.
I agree with your point about Sephiroth's control the most, in my Hard playthrough I often skipped the scenes that resolved around Cloud being a murderous / abusive psychopath under Sephiroth's control because they just drag on. I have played the OG but I wish they'd just create a way to kill the Jenova cells or something, because I felt like I might as-well just be playing as Sephiroth half the time.
I absolutely enjoyed the game; one of the best ive played in a long time... But i heavily agree with your criticisms of the gameplay and especially the ending. Fantastic review!
Maybe just maybe one day
The ending will make sense
Sounds very much my points on it. Loads of filler especially in the open world Chadley parts. And a remorseless cloud.
Overall a very good game but leaves you with a fair amount of disappointment of the execution
I just wish I lived in the world that got an actual remake of final fantasy and not… this.
Those criticisms fell pretty valid, I'd say. I certainly agree that the prospect of a narrative that deviates from the original certainly felt underdeveloped, which probably sounds crazy given how wacky the finale gets. Still, for all the possibilities presented, we're pretty much back where we would've been in the original game.
I was wondering why I hadn't heard a thing about the story of FF7R2, and now I know why. I played FF7R1 when it came to PC, knowing about the continuity ghosts, but I wasn't expecting it to be *that* bad. I don't have any plans to play FF7R2, and seeing this feels gratifying, but also really sad. REMAKO seems like the best option for someone like me who wants a remake of FF7, meanwhile there are other options out there like Persona 3R, Super Mario RPG R, Thousand Year Door R, Star Ocean 2 R, Front Mission 1 & 2 R, and each one is just another slap in the face for Tetsuya Nomura, and Kazushige Nojima.
and story aside, I couldn't stand that stagger gauge in FF7R1. Even if it wasn't a constant reminder of FFXIII and its many, many sins, it made anything other than a trash mob feel like a massive sponge.
...also wait, is Gackt *not* in this one? He must be in the third...
A useful bit of info that doesn't really clarify the ending but does add a lot of extra possibilities:
According to a comment made many years after the original game, (but at a time when they where adamant about not making a FF7 remake), the head designer clarified that by the time she dies in the Original Aerith has access to the same Cetra knowledge that Jenova absorbed that allowed Sephiroth to self resurrect after the Nibelheim incident. She stays dead because A) Sephiroth's messing with the lifestream makes it impossible till he's defeated at the end of the game and B) She basically can do anything she could do whilst alive from the lifestream and gets to be with Zack there so she's happy to remain there.
Its not spelled out at all in the original. Becoming kinda obvious in hindsight thanks to Advent Children, but required the developer to say it outright before anyone got it.
Her being with Zack is important because it helps her understand:
-she doesn't know Cloud is a real person but Zack validates that to her - -Actually Zack points out that Tifa is needed to fix Clouds mind
-his appearence and memory confirms her love of Cloud which pushes her not to dissolve the moment Sephiroth spirit is beaten at the end of og. This makes it possible for her intervention in AC
@@wmen48Aerith knows everything about Cloud in the remake trilogy. She is acting like she doesn't know because she needs the events to happen as they did before just like Sephiroth does. The ending is easy to follow if you pay attention. Essentially there is a reunion of worlds taking place where Sephiroth AND Aerith are both bringing a bunch of different realities together. Aerith is trying to preserve their eventual victory over Sephiroth while Sephiroth is trying to create a "perfect" world that will never end in order to achieve true eternal immortality which has always been Jenova goal. The ending is showing us that both Sephiroth and Aerith are only choosing worlds that include Aerith death because without her Death Sephiroth cannot be defeated. The Aerith that was talking with cloud in the ending is a whisper similar to the one that keeps popping up to cloud in remake. This whisper was residing within remake Aerith this whole time but now that Aerith is dead she is free to go about and interact with cloud the same way Sephiroth has been.
@@MugiwarasNakama wow wow wow hold your horses. Sephiroth manifested through clones not a whisper. He got to control them after remake ehen we defeated the whisper harbinger. Where you got from that jenova wanted anything? Jenova is an alien of unknown motives. It has been established that Sephiroth overpowered her with his will into subservience. It is even alluded that he doesnt use her cells to control Cloud but his will.
@@MugiwarasNakamaSephiroth is the one that wants the reunion to happen, not Aerith and he wants it to happen so Aerith is dead and stays dead because as it is now even if he kills one Aerith there always a time line where she's alive and Aerith at the end is either from lifestream or another timeline. Also Sephiroth doesnt want eternal world and its never said what Jenova's goal is
I'm glad this isn't in the og. I don't consider canon anything the developers say, especially if it came out during or after the compilation era. Just my personal taste and opinion.
I can see where you're coming from with the ending, but I'd like to give the writers a chance. It's obvious that they're building up a lot for the final game, and given how well they've done with pretty much everything else, I'm excited to see where they go with this. I'm willing to trust that they can nail the final part. Also a few misconceptions you might have.
1. The developers have never stated this was going to be a different journey. It was always meant to be an expansion of the original.
2. Cody Christian has stated that he already recorded the voice lines for Cloud's emotional speech when Aerith dies like in the OG. They just haven't used the recording yet because it's being saved for the third game. Why do you think that is?
3. Degradation isn't a new concept. It was in the original, because SOLDIERS were infused with Jenovah cells. And when they lose control they shut down and become black robes. Cloud has an idea of what degradation may be, but we have not yet reached a point in the story where we as the audience will be let in on the truth of Jenovah's cell manipulation.
4. Also, Tifa in this story comes off more as someone who's desperately trying to keep herself together and sees the moments of kindness and remorse from Cloud as enough to keep her faith that he's still the person she knew before, even if that really just amounts to lying to herself. I find this fascinating and it definitely sets the stage for an emotional resolution once we get that memory restoration scene in part 3.
5. Cid's backstory hasn't been revealed yet. It's too soon to declare that he got ruined.
Beyond me minorly disagreeing with the first point (more out of the devs being very contradictory on if they are going to change things or not, espeically with the ending of Rebirth pretty much out-loud saying "THERE ARE NO PROMISES ABOUT HOW WE'LL END IT. YOU SHOULDN'T EXPECT THE OG".)
Yeah pretty much every point here is accurate. Really surpised the video maker didn't catch on to these things.
Not to mention Remake/Rebirth/Re(vive?turn?) is as much a sequel to the Compilation of FF7 as it is a reimagining of the OG FF7.
@phantomslay5612
Amen, totally agree with what you have said :-)
This does not expand on the original. It spits in it's face and changes everything.
@@kellevichy No the key elements happened anyway
@@kellevichy I didn't give you permission to talk.
It’s a sequel. Aerith’s foreknowledge caused rippling effects that might drive a wedge between cloud and tifa. It’s possible that cloud’s redemption is being pushed entirely to the third game so that his fall can hit harder than it did originally by driving the party to hate him and leave us questioning if aerith defying fate was ultimately a good plan in the end or if it just gave sephiroth another in to break cloud and the party apart. (Probably so you have to regain them gradually again in the next game)
I do chalk tifa’s change in attitude to whatever aerith told tifa in their scene at the kalm inn. We are never made aware of what she shares with tifa here, but we’re reminded that whatever it was is driving her actions to handle cloud’s condition differently now. I do think this confusing ending is there to create a stronger moment in the third game and enforce themes of people being unable to deal with grief while giving us a first person perspective of an unreliable narrator losing the trust of everyone around him. There’s also the chance that aerith’s ultimate goal is to save everyone and somehow survive into the land of the living. The fact that we’ve passed that moment and dont know even if she’s dead or not feels intentional to this game as a sequel. They could have done a 1-1 remake, but that probably would have seen less interest in the third game because we would have nothing to look forward to and the game would be fighting the original for relevance, rather than being complimentary experiences.
It hurts not having answers and closure now, but i am still looking forward to seeing what they’re cooking. I’m interested in both the characters and this meta battle between aerith and sephiroth. I feel scared that we’re in for a gut wrenching party split in the next game and a breakdown of these bonds we spent so much time building.
I have to look at this as a trilogy because, like the Lord of the Rings films, these weren’t created to stand on their own. Rebirth helped me accept Remake’s ending and the third game has ample room to do the same for this quantum fate situation. (The stamp dogs are our clue as to whats going on in the meta, each one being a marker for which universe our characters are in.) i find their depiction of essentially schroedinger’s cat experiment an interesting way to portray split timelines in a way that i havent seen before. To me it suggests that these fractured timelines are still themselves, rather than a second them that we’re so used to having in these stories. It leaves cloud in a state where he seems like he’s experiencing two realities simultaneously, and we have just enough context to what these cues mean that we can obsess over trying to figure out what these pieces mean.
I dismissed remake’s ending, but i feel like rebirth hit me perfectly to make me become more engrossed in its mystery. I was expecting to know if aerith would or wouldnt survive by the end of this, but i’m left looking to the third game with bated breath to find out what the truth of the matter is and what it means for our characters. Will cloud side with sephiroth as zack leads the party? Will aerith make her way from the fractured reality into our own? Will cloud go through a much darker arc where he even becomes a part of sephiroth’s machinations and a boss fight against the party before his redemption? It gives new meaning to aerith’s actions at the end of remake for me. She gave red and marlene visions of her future with the group, but it seems she did it with purpose, and her goal was to create a reality where cloud saved ger from sephiroth…but now i’m wondering what cost that comes with because cloud is thrust away from being aligned with the rest of his friends. It feels like anything could happen and i’m at the edge of my seat. Will the party abandon cloud as he becomes a robed figure? We dont know but we have enough pieces to play with to try to figure out what’s in store for us in 3 years…it could turn out badly but theres obscene opportunity for it to do something amazing, too.
I am in doubt about playing FF7 Rebirth. I love the original and my favorite characters are Vincent and Cid. I just found out that both are not playable, it kinda disappointed me.
There are a lot of amazing things on Rebirth that I’m excited to experience and a lot of downfalls that I am afraid of being disappointed - like changing the classic Aerith scene, one of the most important cutscenes on gaming history imo.
Should I play this expensive and long ass game? Are there more amazing things or more flaws?
I f*ing hate the ghosts btw 😂
I was fine with the whispers in remake ONLY and PURELY because they basically promised they'd never show up again after that end, feels like a slap in the face that they're still here its so fkin dumb
@@justhaku9240 yeah, I was pretty sure the whispers were gone on Rebirth, basically because nobody thinks they are a good idea. It's something that could be ripped off the Remake and nobody would complain.
It's not worth it and imo Cid and Vincent were butchered. Esp Cid. I wish I could refund my copy.
@@kellevichy Vincent I have no opinion on but I wanna talk about Cid for a second
Here's the thing, either what we saw in rebirth whats a new character with a new personality, OR when we visit rocket Town it will go through the same motions of learning his story and him being an abusive ass. Really at this point it could be 50/50 which one they go with but we'll have to wait and find out, but I hope it's the latter
@@justhaku9240 I hope it’s the latter too mate, Cid was a pretty complex character, he was an asshole but learnt his lesson after what happened
Think in the ending fight with Sephiroth, Cloud was either tripping or they where in the lifestream and all the bs about alternate timelines where being seen before out eyes. Zach and Areith living only exist to make more games. If this game is doing great and talks about it are still going on and SE thinks it'll sell, I bet Zach and Areith live. If the game sucks. They probably die and cloud is just tripping. GG.
Zack’s arc (though a cool concept at least) was so throw away that you can literally throw it away on repeat playthroughs….
It’s really sad as He’s responsible for actually writing her death, with the intent of it being a sudden loss
Only for him to ruin it wit remake
Who are you referring to Nomura or Nojima or somebody else? I'm pretty sure Aerith and her dying in the original is because of Hironobu Sakaguchi(man's a legend in gaming if you're young or new to gaming) and his dealing with the sudden passing and grieving of his mom dying while they were developing the game.
He hasn't been with Square for about two decades now right before SquareSoft merged with Enix and left the company after being unable to salvage the terrible Spirits Within movie.
@@CrazyxEnigma this is actually a long-standing internet made myth as his loss took place 10 years beforehand and was confirmed by Nomora in 2003 in an interview with Edge magazine as him stating it was some of the first writing he ever did for a video game as he branched out from just being an artist
I only know this due to the “why ff7 is important” vid where it’s covered
I loved it. Every Final Fantasy has a bunch of weird bullshit and time wasting. There are so many varied epic set pieces and so many characters and moves to play with against the awesome boss and enemy variety. 10/10 for me.
Not a fan of these remakes. Would have much preferred a rebuild (similar to demon souls).
I know that a lot of people are confused about the ending and it’s more than fair but I feel like people slightly gloss over something important that being Sephiroth’s lore dump with Cloud before the end specifically the line “when the boundaries of fate are broken, new worlds emerge” or something along those lines.
It doesn’t solidify everything I know that but that’s what creates an alternate timeline where Cloud breaks through the Whispers control and saves Aerith, make no mistake that the “original timeline” Aerith is very much dead but it’s the inevitable plot hole of numerous timelines/worlds that there is an infinite amount of people and events taking place all the smallest fraction different from one another
It’s not an “infinite” amount of timelines, only the number of times that fate has been breached, and in the end those few worlds will merge into one where Sephiroth can absorb all the lifestream from ALL worlds and not just one so the stakes are way higher this time which is actually pretty sweet when you step back and look at it.
As far as Aeriths fate goes, it actually makes more sense that she’s saved this time (hence unknown journey) but it’s looking more and more like their just keeping her a plot device like the original. YAWN, could have just played the original or they shoulda just kept this remake faithful if their not gonna have any guts and take chances.
@@theonecalledlamorak6446fair enough on all of that honestly the more I think about the ending and everything surrounding it the more I wish they ended this game later at the Northern Crater or at the very least given some kind of more solid answer just to make things even 1% clearer but I guess that’s the price to pay for a 3 part series
You are asking for answers to questions that aren't meant to be answered yet. The devs want you to question if Cloud's mind is breaking at the denial of Aerith's death causing him to see her still alive, or if he's caught seeing between two timelines where he did in fact save Aerith. This game is clearly meant to be the darkest hour, with Cloud completely estranged from everyone, even Tifa, b/c he's an unreliable narrator. An unreliable leader.
You're judging the ending as a conclusion and not meant to set up the final act.
Part 3 will show whether is payed off or not. Until then, I'm excited to once again not know completely where this story is going.
So far, the games have been incredible. I'm glad they are applying a twist to the story so we can still be hyped for what will happen
Thank you for this video. It was very well written and I appreciated your insight. I have to agree with the ending. #1, Aerith's ending is too confusing. #2, that many phases in the last boss ruined the impact. Part of the reason it was so impactful in the original was that her music was playing against a boss right after it happened. II do agree with the importance of death. Sigh. Maybe something's going to be happening in the third installment that pulls it all together. Either way, thanks for the vid!
I don’t know why people find the ending confusing… I thought it was excellent
Personally i think the multiverse is the way to go we allways had inconstincies with like genesis and dirge of cerberus this is a way of tidying up these inconstiences without having to erase anything plus everyone id doing multiverse
I get its overdone but wr just gotta accept its the current trend like the trend of playing the bad side in early 2000s
I only recently finished playing the Remake. After 30+ hours, I had only just left Midgar. Then I learned after 100 hours in Rebirth, the story ends in the Temple of the Ancients. I decided to play the OG instead. I’m only 12 hours in and already past the Gold Saucer. These new games are crammed with fluff, and the immaturity of the writing is too cringey for me. I’ve given up on these games.
For all intents and purposes they did mention the scenario for part 3 is already written. And considering the whole Jungian nature of Aerith's fate, I'm relatively interested even if it came at the cost of muddying an iconic scene.
I can see their rationale in not even bothering to try since a lot of people have played the original and they can't recreate the same emotional impact doing it again beat for beat since you know it's coming and speaking as someone who was spoiled on it long before I played it yeah it did rob me of feeling that devastation so many others felt.
Like you, I was fully on board with this game until the last 1.5 chapters of it. Then it completely killed my enjoyment. Zero faith they manage to save this trainwreck in the third game.
Final Fantasy 7 Retribution. Thats what i think the third part will be called.
I think the ending is great and still the same (minus the long fight) but they're saving it for Part 3 and here's a few reasons why..
1. The final credits shows every cutscene but conveniently skips everything that is from his perspective after that scene as it's "wrong"
2. The lowering into the water happened (that's why they sit at the water) but Cloud blocked it out of his mind as in his mind Aerith is fine.
3. Aerith is 100% dead like usual but Cloud still sees her because he's in denial & crazy. The only time it's her actual ghost is her saying" goodbye.."
4. When Cloud "wakes up" in part 3 is when we'll see the true events + the lowering into the water etc (like the OG)
1. Why do you think that is? Perhaps it's because Sephiroth has succeeded in his first steps of driving Cloud mad.
2. Given how much the developers have scrutinized the tiniest details from the original, it wouldn't surprise me if they covered this scene in the memory restoration scene that part 3 will definitely have.
3. I don't think he's crazy here. I think Sephiroth is showing Cloud a hallucination of Aerith to make him think she's still alive. Sephiroth is definitely capable of doing something like that.
4. Imagine the weight of the guilt he would feel, not just from being told he was never at Nibelheim and had taken Zack's place, but that he failed to save Aerith and he didn't even realize it. Sephiroth could probably be like, "If you were a real person, why couldn't you remember those things? Simple. Because nothing you feel is real. All of it has just been one set up for you to fulfill your destiny as my pawn. As Jenovah's fragment."
@@phantomslay5612 Yep. Part 3 will "fix it" as planned or.... Destroy it (for real) lol.
@@misterhoobomaster I'd like to put my faith in the writers for the finale.
@@phantomslay5612 Same. They haven't let me down yet and there's enough hints to show that they are "cooking"
@@misterhoobomaster Apparently they plan to have it released in 2027. Right on time for FFVII's 30th anniversary. There's a lot riding on this finale. Here's hoping they get it right. Every news update from the ultimania is getting me more excited than before.
I swear the next one or the next one after is going to go meta and break the fourth Wall by itself in some form And making this final Fantasy 7.2
Advent children doesn't count shut up
The second half of this video felt very pretentious to me.
Of course Oblivion's soundtrack plays on the boring open world part.
I totally get the complaint of side/open world monotony and repetitive nature, could def be improved for the third installment. But for me personally i didn't really mind it cuz I loved the combat and the world/characters so much that I just wanted to do it all regardless, and had fun the whole time.
When I finished the game, I was kinda mixed on the ending. After thinking about it a lot more I absolutely adore it
Yeah I feel the same, I felt pretty empty and broken after the first time, but upon sitting and reflecting about it and giving myself a bit of time to...well..process everything that happened SO damn fast (I will admit the final chapter has some pacing issues cuz they're cramming way too much into my feeble adult brain) it's an ending that sets the 3rd game up pretty well. And makes me WAY more interested to see how broken cloud will interact with people until everything is revealed to him. He's WAY more merciless atm. The only thing keeping him sane and in check *some* times seems to be aerith.
I'm sure that the only one who can truly restore the real cloud is still gonna be tifa in the end, but for now aerith is the only thing keeping him from completely succumbing to soldier degradation. Albeit, she's now doing it from the lifestream as opposed to (for now) the actual party.
Having played OG 7 multiple times, makes both Remake/Rebirth worse in my opinion. The problem is not the changes; it's that they didn't change it enough to justify it being three games.
The plot moves pretty much in the same way. You go to the same places, the key events occur in the same order with a few changes here and there. The pacing of those games is painfully slow, the amount of padding, especially in the first game, is just too much. Having played the original, you know where you go next, you know what's going to happen. However, in this new version, everything takes too long to happen. A section that would take 30 minutes or so in OG can take up to 3 hours, with new things happening that add nothing to the main plot.
And then there is the ending; they actually blundered it. I don't understand the direction of this game at all. Part three is going to need to be something really special to convince me that this project needs to be a three-part game.
I didn't like Remake; Rebirth, on the other hand, is a good game on its own. However, this whole project is weird. I believe Remake and Rebirth could have been a single game.
If they tried to combine them as is we wouldn't have seen the FF7 Remake they announced in 2015 until this year in 2024 nine years development for a single game? (Perhaps even longer if they had to switch midway through to the PS5 and who would want to go back to a PS4 in 2024 when the console has been out of date for years if they didn't). Everyone would've been wondering what's gone wrong and that long isn't sustainable when looking at it purely as a product.
I get the gripes with the plot beats being to similar but I don't agree that the expanded stuff is purely padding I certainly care a lot more about these characters as people more than I ever did in the original and that's been a huge emphasis with the Remakes to flesh out the main cast and have more characters in general to make the world feel more lived in. Ultimately a remaster was not what Square decided to do and that is the only way we could've realistically gotten the whole thing in one go. Somebody at Square was recently asked about a hypothetical FF6 remake(Kitase if I remember right) and he said it would be impossible the technology isn't quite there and gave a ballpark estimate of it taking twenty years! If part 3 of the remake releases in 2027 in time for the thirty year anniversary development time that's twelve years of combined development time only going back to the announcement in 2015 as when they officially started.
Part if the reason Remake took so long to make was because it was originally outsourced to another developer , Cyberconnect2 (made the .Hack series). They started working on the game in 2014, before it was announced in 2015. But sometime around 2017, Square Enix pulled that team off the project and more or less started over from scratch.
So had that not happened, the first game could have come out in 2018 or early 2019, and Rebirth in 2022 sometime. Each game taking about 3 years or so from the start of development.
The “proper pronunciation”, as it relates to the FF7 universe, was given to us. Please don’t…
I've seen a lot of people that are saying they *ruined* the series cuz they fucked up THE iconic scene for this part of the game. And that's fine, it's their opinion. But imo it's done pretty well.
People have had so many expectations especially with multiple timeliness that perhaps aerith makes it to the third game, and I'm pretty sure she still will be. But that's just it. The scene wasn't as impactful as the OG especially for people who played it. It left us feeling..hollow, empty..frustrated. kind of like how cloud would feel. And that, is brilliantly done.
Don't get me wrong aerith is my favorite in the ff7 series so I broke down when I *THOUGHT* we had saved her and broke down even more when we fought sephiroth in..between worlds? Or the lifestream? Not sure. But I certainly felt empty and broken by the end as well. Took me some time to process how I actually felt about the scene and the ending.
That being said...
Nomura and hamaguchi are huuuge star wars fans and rebirth's ending, kind of feels like ESB. And I don't think their goal was to really try to make her death as impactful as the original cuz it's just not possible. They made us mourn and grieve, or just feel angry...in the same way the party probably does. Made us as fragmented and confused as cloud is. Maybe it was a bit too convoluted but I think that to understand what their original idea for ff7 is (and yes, the OG was not the full vision, that's been stated multiple times) we need to experience the 3rd part first. And see how they deal with the OTHER most iconic scene of the original: when clouds mind gets completely broken and then subsequently put back together again.
As they say, let them cook. They did a fantastic job with the character writing in this game and it's only the last chapter or chapter and a half people are upset about, but we don't have the full story yet. Give them time. ❤
I don’t mean to be rude but this reads like someone who is scrambling hard to defend something. You keep saying “they didn’t want to make it as impactful, they wanted to make us grieve”, what is that logic? We grieved Aerith because the scene was so impactful not because they tried to make it less so lmao.
Also your comparison of how we feel “frustrated just like Cloud and the part would have”…what? How does me feeling frustrated over a messy video game plot even comes close to what one would feel over not being able to save their friend from death?
I do agree with the other things you said tho let’em cook with part 3.
Garcia Paul Wilson Mark Lewis Kenneth
They should’ve just remade the original story
Yea I mostly agree with all your thoughts. This version of the story is much different than the original and is heading down a different path for Cloud. And the story is very deliberately made convoluted and confusing at the end. And while this sucks at the time, it's essentially a message from the writers that this is not a remaster of the original game. You can't tell the same story as the original and have it land with the same impact. They want you to have time to let that absorb.
The way I see it, the ending is the same as remake, there for the purpose of creating intrigue while waiting for the next part. If you don’t like it that’s fair but based on how good the rest of the game is I have faith the third part will deliver on the spirit of the original
So it's multiple timelines. The timeline in the remake trilogy, Holy was not activated as aerith was not killed, cloud stops it. Aerith takes cloud through multiple timelines after the Thing happens just long enough to find a activated Holy. The main timeline you control zack in is a world aerith created when her and cloud fell down at the temple of the ancients. Zack finds out about this and begins junping timelines to protect aerith from sephiroth who knows she has Holy, the one thing that can stop him. So when the Thing happens at the end, aerith is already in the lifestream and knows which timeline will protect the planet and she already knows she has to die and cloud had to give sephiroth the Black materia. Its great story telling. But failed on the execution. They really need to explain the timeline thing in the final game
The Stamp iconography looks different in the Aerith Cloud date timeline compared to Zack's timeline(s), there's at least two divergences and most notably we don't see a Stamp when Sephiroth slaps Zack away so who knows if it was the same one as Aerith Cloud or a different one entirely.
Welcome to the bullshitverse
Zack - paladin type character. Above average fighting skills but most importantly he raises the spirit of everyone around. His dream was being a hero. CC while a very bad game gave that to him in his death.
Cloud - a new Cecil. A dark knight who has a spin on a redemtion arc. This being scifi genes in your body, awkward personality with weak will and being unable to control your body. It actually is a nice twist if it pays up good.
Tifa - giving her a solo moment in the lifestream is bad because that should be when they reconnect with Cloud TOGETHER. Og version of her avoids his memories because he knows things she doesn't and that makes her doubt her own.
I kind of disagree with your take on the open world, at least some aspects of it. I think the discovery of the towers, mako springs which lead into unique boss encounters, lore behind the summons, the descriptions behind the fiend challenges, etc. give a good deal of world-building in a game where saving the world is the goal. It's much more pronounced and expanding on than in the original.
its expanded on, but i dont know if that was the way to do it
@@David-nd4to how else would it have been done? It kills two birds with one stone, you get opportunities to level up your characters and materia while also learning more about the world.
@@Borg9000that’s the thing. I’m not a game designer. I just feel it wasn’t the best way. It’s very 2012 Ubisoft. Thanks for asking though. I can’t really give you a solid answer
Remake Rebirth and the final part regurgitation
I'm pretty sure Cloud seeing Aerith survive is just Jenova or his mind playing a trick on him.
Im not going to agree that the 'ending' was bad because there is still another part to come. It didnt feel like an ending it felt like an intermission. They know this triology will exist for decades maybe a hundred years. They are designing the overall experience to be played back to back to back.
So is this just a dead channel now? Im suprised he hasnt done anything regarding Shadow of the Erdtree.
They have made this into a story that is not and never will be a classic. The storytelling is so bad at this point I just wonder if anyone actually understands what good writing is these days. These games feel more like a Christmas tree with presents underneath it doesn’t feel like a story with any kind of real planning.
Rodriguez Melissa Harris Maria Jones Margaret
The best part of having to speculate about how the story is going, due largely to cloud's unreliable perspective, are the fan theories that add loads of excellent possibilities. Videos like this, though, are a bit of a downer.
Multiverse plots are usually trash
It's just lame. It was lame with the first one. I haven't even bothered.
Bad : Yuffie and Kyrie good everything
I hated every min of rebirth. It should be un birthed. Just more garbage from Square Enix. I miss that awesome company, Square Soft. They were great.