They sabotaged the trains?
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- Опубліковано 4 сер 2024
- A couple of days ago, trains in Germany were in complete chaos. Business as usual? Well, no: as it turns out, it was deliberate act of sabotage. Who did it, how did they do it, and what were they trying to achieve? Here's what we know so far.
Try this video:
• One reason your train ...
Chapters:
00:00 Questions
01:01 What happened?
01:31 How did it happen?
02:06 Sabotage: how do we know?
03:01 How many saboteurs?
03:51 Who did it?
05:19 Why not a cyber attack?
05:44 Why did they do it?
Music:
"Style Funk" and "Hot Swing"
by Kevin MacLeod incompetech.com/
Creative Commons Attribution licence
Data for map of Berlin by
OpenStreetMap openstreetmap.org/
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Nobody sabotages the german railways better than the Deutsche Bahn
Defective by design™
@@Felix-ve9hs 😂😹👍
🤣🤣🤣🤣
FDP does. And has been for decades
Also Spring, Summer, Autumn and Winter, the four enemies of DB.
The information about the structure (probably not the exact cable runs, though) of the network is easily available from the web pages of DB Netze (first Google search result with the right keywords). One railway fan made a video explaining all about the incident, showing images from said web pages. A short time later, he got a call from DB Netze IT security, asking him to delete the video. Which he did. But they didn't take down their own web page ... which, if I recall correctly, has been there for more than a decade. At least the document itself is from 2011.
Make of that what you want.
Thanks. My initial thoughts were an inside job - how would an outsider know where to hit? So it's probably a disgruntled former employee.
But I suppose it follows the pattern after the Nordstream damage. Minor effects from minor damage. I guess we've assumed that Russia would cause massive chaos by attacking critical infra like power lines, but perhaps the tactic is to cause lots of small amounts of chaos adding up to large problems.
@@rogink No, that is not what a disgruntled former employee does. That is way too sophisticated, and it probably took weeks and months of preparation. That is not what somebody in such a situation does. If you are very angry about something, you´d chose something that is violent, like burning down a building. This is out of the mind of a sadistic person, somebody who wants everybody to suffer and to punish. It is intended to harm as many people as possible. It also is a very cowardly move when you think about it.
They probably can‘t take it down because it is Information necessary for third party rail operators using DB infrastructure.
@@ft4709 then create some kind of access control mechanism, for Christ's sake. It's not hard.
@@adamabele785 That's not true - many angry or hurt people think that revenge is best served cold and in a strategic way. Many might be like you said but some are not.
Nothing is gonna stop the little tractor passing by your window (4.30). So there is hope.
Yes.😀
They tried this with Amtrak in the US, but the trains got to their destinations faster
😂😹
ba dun chhhhhh
You have trains in the US?
@@Panzerairlines Yes, and I hear sometimes they are even less than several hours late!
Thanks. I needed a good chortle :)
One thing to add is that another possible purpose is to achieve specifically what resulted of the attack - uncertainty, confusion and concern, which is being spread by media and politicians as well. Basically, a show of force.
??? Hast wohl zu viel Russen-Propaganda geschaut.
@@srccde Das macht aber buchstäblich die AfD, so unrealistisch ist's auch nicht. Kann auch sein, dass Russland die AfD unterstützen möchte, damit es mit der EU keinen Ärger mehr über den Krieg in der Ukraine gibt.
Quite a sensible hypothesis.
A show of force by Russia would just make Germans even more staunchly pro-ukranian and unwilling to argue for Ukraine to seek a negotiated peace.
Funnily enough, so far I haven't witnessed any uncertainty caused by this event. As Rewboss said, many Germans would say this is a normal day at Deutsche Bahn.
Don´t panic ! The vogon fleet will set things straight.
They will all end up driving Ford Prefects......
Hope you can give us an update on this situation if and when more about it is known.
There's probably nothing worth hacking into since the internet is Neuland in Germany.
How old is that now? Maybe ten years or so?
@@tobyk.4911 Yeah, almost. 2013
Thanks a lot, Rewboss. Great video. Please keep us updated on this. (Peter in the states). Cheers!
As a cybersecurity professional, you’d be wrong to think that a cyber attack would be more effective/safer. Especially on a critical network, the systems are likely to be both highly segmented and heavily monitored. It would in fact be somewhat difficult to pull of an attack that would cause significant disruption that wouldn’t be easily and quickly reversible. Admittedly thats speculating a bit based on DB’s security practices but both the company and the German government are well aware of the cyber risks and mitigating steps. Special regulatory requirements are in place for critical industries in Germany that are quite strict and many companies will go above and beyond that.
On the other hand, these cables stretch hundreds of kilometers and are totally unmanned and unmonitored in significant sections. Cutting a cable is quick, hard to trace, and requires getting actual people to go out there, identify, and fix the problem. It actually goes to show that, with a bit of insider knowledge (as the saboteurs seemed to have), it is much easier to compromise networked systems via physical means than by digital ones.
That being said, you’ve made a compelling case that this is sabotage. It would actually require a deep understanding of both the IT and physical infrastructure, as well as how they interact. There would likely only be a small number people in the entire company or government with that knowledge.
This does lead me to believe that there may be a digital component to this, in a different way though. In most cases, government spies hack into systems to obtain intelligence, not compromise systems. Gathering data is both easier and far more effective than compromising systems. Once you try to compromise network operations, your cover is blown and they’ll launch a full incident response process and be far more vigilant in the following months. On the other hand, you can basically exist on a system for ever if you just stay under the radar and collect intelligence. In 99% of cases nobody will suspect a thing.
A good - but disturbing - point.
Usually the journey of a train is made safe by blocks with signals at their entry points. If a signal shows a red light telling to stop, the following block is occupied by another train or at least one switch does not point to the right direction.
In the network of DB it is impossible to ignore red lights because trains are going to be stopped automatically by the mandatory PZB 90 as soon as they pass a signal telling to stop. The PZB 90 (devloped initially as Indusi in the 1930s) does not need electric power to run its track side installments (not to talk of digital communications) and "enforces" even pure mechanical gas-illuminated signals. Yes, the driver can bypass it, but this increments a counter and gets documented automatically. If he does so without good reasons - e.g. a construction area or a broken signal and a weaver from the signal box -, he faces disciplinary consequences.
Apart from this "classic", PZB 90-enforced signalling main lines in Germany got the LZB system since the 1970s, which displays directly in the drivers cab how fast to travel up to 10 km ahead and it could even control the train speed automatically if the driver wishes it to do so. LZB-equipment is mandatory for trains moving faster than 160 km/h. The LZB-system as well has got its own cables and computers and does not need any parts of GSM-R communication lines which had been developed at least two decades later. If the LZB fails or trains lack LZB-installments, their travel is kept safe by classic PZB 90-enforced signals and travelling speed is limited to 160 km/h.
Classic signalling and LZB-systems are safe when somebody cuts off and steals the cables as this happens sometimes, trains could not crash by this kind of vandalism. Signal boxes do not simply transmit commands for signals and switches and pray that they may reach their destination, but they check always a technical acknowledge. Signals with electrical light bulbs got those with two separately connected filaments in the red lantern; when a filament fails the other is connected automatically to make sure the red light is visible to train drivers and the signal box gets another red light telling to replace the bulb.
So I do not understand why the railway traffic stopped all over northern Germany when the GSM-R communication failed. As far as I know in Germany there are just 349 km brand new railway tracks with ETCS relying on GSM-R, but even there is at least still classic signalling available. The vast majority of rolling stock is not equipped with ETCS yet. In the 19th century there was no direct communication available between train drivers and signal boxes unless a train stopped next to it, the 20th century saw telephone boxes at some important points beside the tracks in Germany, so the driver had to stop and leave his cab to talk to somebody else in some cases. After the second world war in Germany analogue wireless communication (Zugbahnfunk) moved in relatively slowly and even this never reached the entire network. So why and since when are German railways dependent from GSM-R?
It seems that without it, there are still situations that can lead to pretty serious accidents because, before GSM-R, those actually happened. But I'm no expert on that.
It is way more simple than you think: Because after GSM was virtually available on the whole network the rulebook got changed and thus it is no longer allowed to run without working communications. It wasn't a problem before 2000 because it was not mandatory to be always connected.
It's the classical "somebody hast to take responsiblity" and nobody will do so. The trains can run perfectly fine on all lines that are not ETCS only (currently 2 in the whole of Germany, with one other not yet opened) - but IF something happens that could have been prevented by working GSM somebody will get s*** for it - and thus the system is shut down for legal reasons only...
@@KaiHenningsen According to Wikipedia there had been railway lines without PZB 90 until 2012. Near Bad Aibling two trains collided despite of a fully equipped railway line. The operator there got used to use auxiliary signalling to make train operations running "more fluently". But auxiliary signalling is intended for exceptional cases like the failure of track occupancy detection or malfunctioning regular signals and it does not implement any automatic checks. The operator has to ensure a free track for the train and properly set switches manually by exercising several safety procedures. This failed when the operator in Bad Aibling got heavily distracted by an online game on his smart phone.
Multiple reasons. One simple one: in the 20th century there was a controller at every single station controlling his station. So for a simple shunting maneuvre he could just go out to the train driver to tell him what to do (or yell at him or use hand signals or a flashlight or a bell). Now the controller sits in a centralised control room, so you need a phone call to discuss even simple tasks. How? GSM-R. Could you just use the "normal" phone? Yes, but neither the train driver nor the controller has the phone number of the other, GSM-R uses functions and train numbers instead of phone numbers.
Now imagine the polices calls the command center because there was a car accident on a road parallel to the track and one of the cars is now lying on the tracks. Sometimes there are a lot of signals, on which the controller can hold a train. But sometimes there isn't a signal for 20 or 30 minutes, so the only way to stop a train there is to give him a phone call (short of turning off the electrical wire, which still only works for electric trains). Now the controller has to give the company of the train a call to get the phone number of the driver, but he will probably be on hold for like 15 minutes because *every* controller is now calling said company to get a phone number of some train driver, even if it is just for a simple shunting operation.
Or picture an accident on a line with multiple tracks. By the time the train driver has figured the phone number of his controller, an oncoming train will probably already have hit the same accident site again.
@@LarsPW There are a lot of oversimplications in this one - and no, the smart phone wasn't the significant factor here.
It's a classic story of how something has always been done in a way that worked a million times - until once it didn't. And the interlocking board was set up in a way that wasn't up to code even back when it was first installed, making the oversight of the signalman a lot easier. The very topic this thread is pinned under was also attributing: It was (and as far as I know still is) way to easy to get the WRONG emergency call going - which is exactly what he did prior to the accident.
Yes, it was ultimatly his mistake - but there were a lot of preventable attributing factors beforehand.
For Germany I highly recommend the BEU archive - all relevant incidents of the last two decades can be reviewed there, including Bad Aibling and other very interesting ones...
Very interesting story, thanks Rewboss.
Something similar happened in France in April several main fiber cables were cut around Paris. Still nobody knows who did this and it was done?
Probably it is not meant to cause damage in the first place, but to cause chaos and insecurity.
as the edit function is giving an error:
concerning @3:50 the cut was (according to the source mentioned) between "S Gehrenseestr." and "S Hohenschönhausen" which is the line S75
A friend of mine works in southern Germany for the DB. They also get cables cut fairly often.
It's not about getting some cables cut, it's about getting the only two cables cut needed for communication at the same time.
Copper theft is rampant in Germany because the punishment is a joke and the crime solution rate low.
@@the_real_glabnurb Indeed.
In Bulgaria the gypsies sometimes get fried when stealing copper cables. Oh did I say "gypsies", naughty me, I meant the - "Roman People".
@Graf von Losinj - I Post Info Officially they are "Roma" or "Romi" (plural) as the EU requires. The word "Gypsy" is censored by non Bulgarian media like Google/UA-cam Bulgaria. If I write the word in Bulgarian, my comments disappear.
The end made me chuckle ☺ DB can manage that all alone 😝
😀
The saboteur appears briefly in the video at 4:27
Danke. Ein verrückter Einzeltäter wär mir am liebsten. 4 Stunden , in der Nacht zum Samstag ist nicht nur machbar, sondern ganz normal. Fast jedes unauffällige Auto schafft mindestens160 bis 180 km/h, beruhigend.
Linksextreme Anschläge auf die Bahn gab es schon oft...also nix neues
Was already stuck in Spandau for 2 hours because of DB. They don't need help with that at all from Russia.
Interesting stuff. I am heading there in a few months, for a month, can you suggest a good english based German news site, so I can keep up with the news while there?
Maybe DW it's public broadcast
In other words: Another Tuesday at Deutsche Bahn...
Yes, another day where the people working for the DB had to deal with rude comments and terrible unoriginal insulting "jokes" from passengers for something that isn't their fault. All because people who don't understand the least bit about railway operations or or why the railway is working so badly (It's due to underfunding by the government-that simple) feel somehow qualified to comment on everything, because they are somehow under the illusion that they have the right to be unpleasant, when the trains aren't working, even though railroaders are the ones most affected by the terrible mismanagement while also being the only reason the DB is still operating as well as it does (yes, it is operating extremely well for how badly it's financed). And sure, you could be thankful and admire that such a big problem was solved within a matter of hours. But instead the same uninformed passengers go an vote for parties that give as much taxpayer money as possible to the auto-industry while under-funding the railway system as much as they possibly can and then wonder why things are falling apart and go an blame the DB for the consequences of their choice in voting.
@@Verwaygen we all know, the folks working there are not the ones to blame. Der Fisch stinkt vom Kopf her.
Maybe it was for a different purpose? Maybe someone needed to stop all trains to commit a completely different crime? "Unloading" cargo from a train? Crossing the tracks with heavy and slow equipment? Manipulating infrastructure without being seen by train drivers and passengers?
It would be far easier to, for example, drop something on the overhead catenary or disable a signal to close down a specific line, instead of dashing back and forth between the Ruhr and Berlin to unreliably close down most of the network.
@@rewboss Cutting two cables and driving a few hours in between is really really cheap and stealthy. Disabling one signal box or dropping something on the overhead wires might be more expensive and more risky, and everybody is asking questions why someone sabotaged one particular train or one particular railway line.
Whoever did this now has used this zero-day-vulnerability up, the same trick will not work again.
@@doctorhabilthcjesus4610
It would have been impossible to know which train would stop when and at what signal, especially considering the fact that the network wasn't shut down immediately. Sabotaging a single signal would have been enough to allow for what you describe, and in general theft of goods is pretty much impossible in transit, but does happen when trains sit in yards. If the target were a goods train it'd have been much simpler to target it when stopped in a yard or stop it alone with a signal.
@@mikeblatzheim2797 It was early in the morning, and many trains did not move at all and kept sitting where they were. Sabotaging one signal has some serious drawbacks and real criminals do not mind about collateral damage, they only ask how cheap it is to achieve what they want. There was a video from "Alwin Meschede" about the topic. This video is no longer available, but he described how it could have been done, and it was super easy.
Oh, my god! You're still around? Wow, Rewboss! I know you from way back when I first started looking around on UA-cam. So glad to see some of the UA-camrs from my active days still going strong.
There actually are planned Acts of Vandalism upon the Deutsche Bahn. Some Cities have a few Sprayer Gangs competing who can do the most Property Damage. They do Things as stopping crowded Trains to spray Graffiti on them, which takes a bit of planning. Other Acts include damaging Train Wheels with an Angle Grinder, severing Brake Lines or destroying Wiring with a Blowtorch. Especially Hamburg has a really bad Vandalism Problem (20+ Million €/Year in Damage), with one Gang going as far as breaking into a Railway Workshop, spraying Trains and doing said other Damages, destroying expensive Specualial Tools while threatening the Workers with a Knive to keep them from calling Police. The Difference is that all these Things happen locally, so the same Vandals going from Herne to Berlin would be weird.
I hope this case will be a good lesson for DB. They must improve their communications and make sabotage less likely|/successful.
Why on earth should they do that? If two bridges get blown up by terrorists the lesson isn't build more bridges. It's the same here: If someone was ready to sabotage 2 lines they would also have sabotaged 3. And if you guarded those systems more heavily they could blow up a track. And if you guarded those more they could blow up the overhead wiring and so on... You can not ever make a system so safe that it's impossible to attack. So why on earth should the DB spend billions of Euros that they don't have (it would cost more than the DB has made in the last decade to install more redundancies), to install a triple redundancy for a communication system that has worked for decades without failure? Don't get me wrong. You are right that there needs to be a lot of investing in the railway infrastructure by the government (the DB is already doing what it can btw, the state of the DB is a political failure, not the failure of the people doing all they can to keep the system running while being underpayed and underfunded). It's the signals and actual tracks, and overhead-wiring and bridges and all the other causes for delays that need work done, after the last decades of under-investing in the railway infrastructure, not the already redundantly designed communication systems.
Besides the four seasons and the passengers there is now another enemy for DB: the kremlin
xD
As someone who is interested in railroading (I even have an alternative account, _SleepTrain456,_ for railroading videos), I found this to be an interesting video! Didn't get the news about the _Deutsche_ _Bahn_ sabotage until now! Now, I know that as you said, it could have either been a disgruntled employee or agents of the government of the Russian Federation. Either way, it would be time to secure the rail lines... and if it _is,_ in fact, the work of _der_ _Kreml,_ then it is _really_ time to secure them! Thanks for the video!
Also, nice ending at 6:39!
Sabotage - "sabot" = wooden shoes (French) / "sabotage": French workmen threw their "sabots" into machines to stop them working. Those were the days....
That's the best-known explanation, but the evidence is against that etymology. From "sabot" we get the French verb "saboter" which means "to walk noisily", and figuratively "to bungle", "to work clumsily".
Historical evidence suggests that French workmen who wanted to stage a protest would, instead of going on strike, continue working, but would deliberately work badly, producing finished articles that couldn't be used. It wasn't vandalism, but it did cost the factory owner a lot of money.
@@rewboss Mal wieder was gelernt ... Thx
I'm just wondering what was in the trains that were stopped on this route.
We sure it's not just the DB planing for first snowfall, after all that too will bring the entire train network...
5:10 Sure, Russia has a track record, but this was the communications system.
Nuh, I think the British Empire Media (colonies and EU vassals included) have a track record of gaslighting the peasants.
Indeed!😀
Wenn der/die Saboteur/in mit dem Auto gefahren wäre, wäre er morgens voll in den Berufsverkehr geraten - man schafft es vielleicht in 5 Stunden von Herne nach Potsdam, aber da ist dann Schicht - und nach Karow muss er ja noch um die ganze Stadt rum... Google sagt 5h 20min ohne Pipipause. Ich halte es für unwahrscheinlich.
Wobei es Samstag morgens war - ein Wochentag mit relativ geringem Berufsverkehr um diese Zeit.
Vandalism may well often be opportunistic but never “random.”
Students who had been studying transport infrastructure, realised where the weak points were, and did it for the lolz.
Don't discount it. When's rag week in Germany? 🙂
Not a thing, here.
I like that idea. Like... "Seriously? Just these two cables and half the country's trains go down? Nope, not acceptable, we're gonna attack those cables to force them to add more redundancies!"
I don't believe that's actually what happened, but I like the idea.
If I knew how to shut down a national rail network, and wanted to use that to, let's say, shut down their military supply lines, I would not give that knowledge away by "practicing" it.
Someone deliberately ate all my donuts. I bet it was Russia.
Please make a video about „Dagobert“, and his incredible story of blackmailing!
I think it should be unheard of, that the location of the cables are vaguely hinted at by the media and now everyone knows that there is a cable at point x/y. Too late now, yeah, but still
oh and i thought it was just the normal daily thing xd
My first thought was that some angry railway worker got fired or quit and did this in frustration.
The angry railway worker decided to attack on two locations so far apart and risked the lives of many people just to annoy the company? It's the communication system that was destroyed. I mean, there could've been major accidents with trains if they weren't stopped immediately. I think that's unlikely.
@@Nickname-hier-einfuegen yeah, also cutting 2 cables in a day is way to much work for the average DB worker.
But there are so many possible Angry people crazy enough to do something like that...
My guess is some greenparty associated group did it. they like destruction for no reason, they Burned down a Tesla cardboard storage and cut lines to their factory....
@@Nickname-hier-einfuegen he was really angry
Siemens! freaking Siemens GSM R System's when out!
Jokes on them, you gotta sabotage something that actually works in the first place.
"a day of misery for rail passengers", you mean a normal day like every other?
There are rumors that a man without a shirt riding on a pony had been seen in Herne a short time before it happens 🤣
Khm in eastern european countries cable cuts happen routinely because of drunk workers rarely follow plans precisely. Or the cables made of copper are worth good money. Would be funny if turns out it was romanian gipsies :D
So... all the late and canceled trains in winter are just acts of sabotage by Mother Russia and Father Frost.
NOT MY TRAINSSSSS
Regarding the cyber attacks, if you know who's selling the securitysoftware to German companies and the government, it's a cybersecurity company that is very close tied with KGB.
Officially they operate under a different name in Germany.
The company is even on the German security council.
I think ZDF Magazine Royale made a video about that.
In conclusion it would've been way too easy for Russia to have their way by cyber means.
And that's why I think it was someone else, not sure who.
Are you even aware that the "KGB" used to be the equivalent of the FBI/MI5/German Federal Police?
@@julianpetkov8320 yeah, the question remains would you trust software sold to you by the fbi? I wouldn't.
They probably got backdoors in those systems to access your data and your systems in general and that is no Bueno. Especially if your whole country depends on the data/systems. It's like any Chinese phone or app, it can't be trusted because they all are bound to monitor your info and give it straight to the Chinese government. let's say you use those systems for private, governmental and other businesses.
every private, business and state secret has been sent to a foreign government so they know all, yet you know nothing.
If we were at war with a country with access to This we'd be screwed even harder than we already are right now.
So you think of some russian 5th column or sympathizer of whatever wing?
I'm almost certain, we can remove "The Peoples' Front of Judea" and "The Judean popular Front" from the list of "The Usual Suspects"! 🤔😉
And if hope is the last to die, we should always make sure our humor dies only second to last.....🙂
Interestingly, over 90% of train passengers did not realize that there was anything unusual that day 🙂
Yes, only after watching the News in the TV.
You missed the part that there is another backup system in addition to the redundant cables. However, it didnt work (as expected of DB). If it was down because of sabotage only, i would give DB a pass, but not this time.
Not true. The backup system would be roaming, aka using P-GSM for GSM-R calls. This didn’t work because the sabotage affected both connections to the HLR. It was very much down because of the sabotage.
@@ft4709 Is DB operating its own private GSM network, with GSM stations along rail tracks, and with two redundant cables switched at two locations in Herne and Berlin on its way to the DB GSM HLR? Who built that network? Who knows about the network topology and physical access locations?
@@23poiuz Yes. It's the DB's own network. It was mostly built with the tracks, whenever they were built. Originally it was a telegraph network, then phone network (the old BASA/Vodafone aka DB's own network) and was then digitalized to the GDM network which some people would like to be seen replaced by an even newer digital Network. However imo this incident proves that it's probably not a good idea to digitalize the communication in the first place, since the communications under the old analogue system would not have been affected in the same way. But since so many people thing digital is better just because it's more modern I'm guessing they're gonna go ahead and do it anyway, even though it's more vulnerable. Back to your questions: IAnyone familiar with railway technology can know about it pretty easily but to know the actual physical location are not as well known, though not necessarily a secret either. Because while you can find out where the lines run without too much trouble, knowing the access points is something that does require some degree of insider knowledge.However given that there are so many railway fans that post everything about railways online they can find I wouldn't rule out that you could find that information online if you did enough research. And in any case you could probably just ask someone who works at the railway and they would tell you. I personally don't find the idea that it was an employee who was fired convincing, because the DB generally doesn't fire people. They simply relocate them to a different post (or people quit of course). Since someone getting fired is extremely rare and anyone who knew about the access point and was recently fired (which I'd say applies to a maximum of 2 people tops) would be under investigation by now, which to my knowledge is not the case. Also that person would have to have known, that they were gonna be the primary suspect. And they'd know that the chaos wouldn't last for long, bc of the crisis management that repaired the whole thing in a matter of hours and they'd know that if they were caught they'd not only face jail time but would also be responsible for the millions of Euros in damages, not the DB and that their former colleagues would be the ones facing the main part of the problems (having to deal with all the unhappy passengers who get extremely rude, when trains are delayed, having to work overtime, having to deal with the chaos...). Plus generally railroaders, even former ones, are very protective of the railway (which is the only reason it still operates as well as it does despite decades of under-funding by the government) and are very collegial. I could be wrong of course, but it just seems like such a stupid and misguided revenge plan that I don't see this being a former employee... (Wow this post got long)
@@Verwaygen I dont think digitalization or not digitalization matter in this case. Both types will be crippled the same if the important cables are cut.
I would conjecture that for terrorism to work, you do not necessarily have to tell people who you are. For example, if you were a right-wing terrorist cell you could shut down the transport network on Christopher Street Day, then people wouldn't need to know who you were to know who you were against, a bit like an anonymous social media post.
Ich maße mut, dass für Terrorismus um zu wirken ist es nicht unbedingt notwendig, wer man ist kundzutun. Z.B. Rechtsextremist könnte das Verkehrsnetz am Christopherstraßentag sabotieren, dann bräuchte keiner wer man wäre zu kennen, um wer man täte wider zu kennen, wie ein namenloser Sozialmedienbeitrag.
There is huge economic interest in substituting GSM-R with fancy new non-EU controlled "5G" (whatever 5G actually means, and whatever flavor of 5G is) communication network. So my take is that this was done not by a foreign state or terrorist group but by some company or industrial group wanting to push DB to but an upgraded communication system. Stuff like this happen in Italy all the time, it's the reason why the Tram in Trieste has been put out of operation with a fake incident (a company wanted the tram operator to install an automatic traffic control system).
I assume the attackers expected more to happen. They cut down the communication cables, so they probably assumed or hoped that trains would crash into each other, get derailed at track switches, drive into cars, because the gates weren't down, and so on.
It was the DB's mobile phone network which does not control any of these things.
@@steve1978ger It's not only a mobile phone networt, pretty much the entire communication between drivers and signallers is based on GSM-R, and so is ETCS.
@@velarod3961 - still, it's pretty obvious from public information, that trains aren't just going to run into each other when it drops
A bit of a nothing-burger as sabotage goes.
Leave the silly speculation about who is behind it and just look for the obvious.
They just need to find someone who moved from Switzerland to Germany and is now forced to use DB instead of SBB. The shock is so great that immediate insanity sets in and the poor creature wants revenge for it.
They attacked German consulate in kiew
"Months of cyber warfare and all they have to show for it is a few hours chaos on the railways. That is something that Deutsche Bahn can easily manage on its own without outside help."
Dunking Master Strategist FckPutin and German rail operations at once. 😅
Yes!👍
I think the British Empire Media (colonies and EU vassals included) have a track record of gaslighting the peasants. This includes blaming Russia for the Original Sin and the Box of Pandora.
Not the first time that some ppl manipulate cables. Left wing does this sometimes or some idiots stealing the cables for copper... stop spreading insicurity.
I think its a message. Look, we know where your friggin data cables for the trains are. What else will they know? Maybe where our transformer stations are. They are not guarded. Take out a couple of important ones and boom - blackout.
That is possible.
Just place a landmine at the cables. If someone tries to sabotage them: Boom!
Yeah, brilliant. Just blow up the cables by yourself in case someone wants to damage them.
It either was the Russians or the DB put a new pretext to a test.
I think that you are right, a disgruntled former employee is the most likely culprit.
But why on a Saturday then? If I want to get the most impact I'd do it monday morning.
A Cyberattack on the Bahn is impossible, no hacker remembers the tech needed to hack an analoge system...
So, you don't dare to mention the Americans, even as a rejected hypothesis? Then you deserve what you are going to go through.
I also didn't mention the British, the French, the Poles, the Israelis, the Palestinians, the Nigerians, the Venezualans, the Martians, the Klingons, or Godzilla.
@@rewboss The British are relevant, and you should have mentioned them; the rest are not. Europe is being expelled from the First World by the Americans and the British; and you do not dare to protest, let alone to resist.
@@rewboss Indeed.😀
@@rewboss No need to mention a bunch of British vassal countries. Everybody knows how malevolent the British Empire is.
There’s a more logical explanation: It was done to rise the level of Russophobia in Germany and its neighboring European countries without taking any risks.
That's the very very typical answer of Russian troll propaganda centers.
Right now two of my friends with two kids sit in a bomb shelter in Kyiv (Kiev) - no way to add any more „Russophobia“ by stopping a few trains.
Putin is known to do "special operations" like poisoning opponents. Navalny, a long-time opponent of Russian President Vladimir Putin was treated in Berlin Charite hospital after being poisoned and survived. Now he is in Russian prison.
No doubt to me that Putin can easily send some agents to do an attack against cables in Germany.
DB is so bad I wonder why would anyone want to "sabotage" it
If it was a foreign country, then most likely Ukraine or America just like with Nord Stream.
Your real name is Ivan, isn't it?
@@ct92404 And Your real name is John Smith, isn't it?
@@3chmidt No, Comrade Ivan, that isn't my name.
@@ct92404 Yeah it is your name, John
To my fellow germans: Lets do the least expected thing: Lets go article 5 iv it turns out that it was some GRU agents!
They made themself much to dependent on such technology. And what for? 50 years ago they didn't have all that - and they ran twice as many trains. And they were even punctual.
This isn't true: there are now far more trains running than 50 years ago. Many lines are currently running at 120% capacity, which is the source of many of its problems.
@@rewboss Indeed.
It is fairly obvious "who" that was.
Or rather that’s what they want you to believe.
It fairly obvious to me that you write something without saying what you think you know. So, this comment dows not help anybody.
@ Who is "they"?
the usual suspects
@@christiankastorf4836, the ones who are trying to make you believe (and apparently have succeeded in doing so) that it’s obvious “who” was.
The most important railroad safety-system has only 2 legs ? Shame. Shame. Shame.
Well, no. GSM-R is not the most important railroad safety-system
@@ft4709 Well, yes. GSM-R is not the most important railroad safety-system
@@danielfietkau733 GSM-R isn't even a safety system...
TLDR Russia did it, duh.
"Hey, we can get at your pipelines and your rail networks, stop supporting Ukraine kicking our asses."
TBH I think the BND and the other services have their work cut out for them. Power of Siberia, anyone?
Yeah imagine being so gaslighted to believe this nonsense. 150 thousand Russians are holding up a USUK financed Junta in Kiev, which claims to have 1 million soldiers. Imagine if Russia declared a war, there will be no Ukraine.
Why do this cringey clickbaity thumbnail. You make good videos, no need to demean yourself
You can clearly tell his thumbnail is tongue in cheek.
Wasn't there an big AfD demonstration at that day? This would have stopped demonstrators arriving by train.
In this case it would have been a beautiful attack with a regrettable amount of collateral damage. (The actions of the center for political beauty were much more targeted and more entertaining)
Haha, Putin was it... like at this morning, when my toilet was broken, I was sure, he did it!
God I hate the media.
I would rather look to the west. Don't be fooled.
Es ging darum die AfD Demo in Berlin klein zu halten meiner Meinung nach
No one can say who is responsible at the moment. But lack of an impact (whether in duration, destruction level, or whatever measure) is not evidence that the Russians were not involved. You just made the point that Russians have a track record of making impotent attacks in other countries. Seems the point of this video is basically for you to be sanctimonious.
I think the British Empire Media (colonies and EU vassals included) have a track record of gaslighting the peasants. This includes blaming Russia for the Original Sin and the Box of Pandora.
Don't be too quick to blame Russia.
Why not? That’s what this sabotage was intended for.
@ - and how exactly would the Kremlin benefit from trains running a few hours late in Germany?
@@steve1978ger, I meant the sabotage was intended to quickly blame Russia for it.
@ - possible. I'm not sure though. Could as well have been the other way round.
USA or Poland attacked Nordstream 1 & 2. Germany must leave NATO and choose to be neutral because clearly being in NATO means nothing in these circumstances.
Ps. I wouldn't have a clue who destroyed the cables in Berlin and elsewhere. But uK, Poland, USA could have done it. Nothing surprises me in 2022.
You wish. NATO is ever so more vital in these times.
@@soundscape26, especially when your goal is going to war and you’re looking for a pretext to do so: Kuwait, Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, you name it.
@Kuwait? Yeah, maybe they should have dealt with the invasion themselves. Afghanistan? It was a breeding ground for terrorist groups. NATO was not involved in Syria as far as I can tell.
NATO is essential to protect the values of its constituent countries... now more than ever.
@@soundscape26, why should NATO protect the monarchy of Kuwait? NATO claims to be a defensive military alliance and Kuwait isn’t one of its members (and neither is Ukraine, Kosovo, North Macedonia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Iraq or Libya). None of the perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks weren’t trained in Afghanistan. Osama bin Laden wasn’t even aware of the plans for the attacks, let alone involved. As for the protection of the “values” of the NATO members for which NATO you claim is essential, what “values” of the Republic of Turkey is NATO protecting?
As for NATO’s involvement in Syria:
“NATO demands halt to Syria aggression against Turkey” - Reuters, 2012-10-03
“Turkey calls for rare NATO talks after attacks along Syrian border” - CNN, 2015-07-26
@ As a matter of fact, the Kuwait liberation was more of an American thing rather than a NATO one. In Iraq it was basically a US/UK operation. As for Afghanistan, Al-Quaeda planned and executed the 9/11 attacks and the Taliban hosted them in Afghanistan... going after them would only be obvious. Spare me any sympathy for Bin Laden.
Turkey ascended to NATO after WW2 and has been an important strategic partner for the alliance ever since. It's a balancing act inside NATO sometimes? Yes... but so is Hungary inside the EU.
NATO didn't put boots on the ground in Syria. Making statements is not a proper intervention.
As for intervening in non-NATO countries... yes if the overall security of the region is at stake like in the Balkans war, which threatened to undermine the security of a big part of the continent. NATO will always intervene in places it deems of strategic importance for its members... do you think it wouldn't intervene if say, Australia were invaded?
NATO is absolutely fundamental these days... not seeing this is being totally naive. Only enemies of liberal democracies would like to see it dissolved.
well.....
please don't clickbait by calling it an "attack"....
I understand the views game and respect the hustle... but please don't give Deutsche Bahn the chance to imply the Putin Card to gloss over their own incompetence...
on the matter itself....
yes, the evidence points towards an intentional act.... however....
the modus operandi of cutting the communication cables in two places along the line, points towards a person with not only knowledge of the lines, their functions etc but also in possession of the tools required to work on them....
also... all it caused was a disruption of the schedule.... the security risk was low, as all trains stop when communication is disrupted....
if you wanted to cause some havoc, there are far more effective methods I suppose....
in conclusion, it was probably done by either someone with a grudge against DB (which puts suspicion onto about 90% of the population)....
or it was one of those curious episodes when DB does something so incredibly stupid and incompetent, that even claiming intentional sabotage is less damaging to them than the truth....
because if the problem was caused by incompetence, DB would have had to give refunds....
on the busiest of the week and the busiest line....
and since it's DB we're talikng about, that's probably what happened....
The Russians did it.
Shat in your pants and vomited on your carpet, did they?
Maybe consume less narcotics!
Joe Biden
What?
Who?
Potato?
evil twin of Angela Merkel
JOHN MADDEN
Gas pipeline down........ Greenies.......ELF....Maybe not the Ruskies ,US, Ukrainians or other state player at all. Greenies want us back in the stone age walking everywhere or e bike.
Don't be silly.
And honey, the 'Greenies' are part of our goverment.
I take it you are Australian with your choice of word?
Also Greenies love trains.
@@jaeger5060 that we do.
they can't fathom that the electricity that power their e bikes had to be generated somewhere else
Judging from comments like yours, some of us have never left the stone age.
The Germans are not really in panic... only in the medias. The reason is, that the german trains are allways too late. THIS is not result of a attack 😄The state railway company was privatized and saved in such a bad way that rail traffic no longer works properly. Now the state is forced to backtrack again. When the attack happened, it was thought to be a perfectly normal, annoying, daily delay😄
Yes.
🙂👍🧡 #algokommi
5:32 "huge increase in cyber attacks from Russia ever since they invaded Ukraine" - oh really?
So the Russian not only attacked Ukraine for no reason, but also attacked Germany just because.
Maybe if Germany sends more panzerfaust to Ukraine, Russia will become more friendly to you.
Just your logic...
but they did quite well with the antivaxx propaganda in the EU