712 is definitely my favorite of S7 and it was jam packed so seeing your reactions to everything was so much fun. 99, if not 100% of the dialogue was directly from the books so, for me, it was watching the pages of the books come to life❤. There was an understanding between Jamie and John that John's feelings for him were never mentioned. Their friendship was built on that and when John said those words to Jamie he kicked that bridge out from under them. That's when Jamie lost his mind because it brings back thoughts of Black Jack. This episode shows how much William is like Jamie. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. By the way, LOVE the color of your nails!
The opening Easter Egg was of an apple not falling far from the Tree. I believe when John stated their reasons for having sex it triggered a memory of Black Jack & he didn't think. When I first read John shouting out his' confession' to Jaime I yelled, telling him to shut up ! I think Jane meant keeping her honor was by giving him what he paid for.
5:50 Jamie was willing and able to take William with him to Scotland when his parole was finished. (How lovely would it have been if Jamie could have taken William home to be raised with Jenny's younger kids and eldest grandkids? Maybe Jamie wouldn't have married Laoghaire. Then William would have been WITH Jamie when Claire came back.) The reason Jamie didn't is because he did not have legal custody of William. Jamie looked into it and realized that unwed fathers had absolutely no legal claim on their children. Child custody law was so stupid in this time. A woman had no legal rights over her children if she was married. She had all the rights if she was not married. A man had all the rights if he was married to the mother, regardless of whether he was the actual father or not. He had no rights if he was not married to her. If the earl and Geneva lived, the EARL would have had custody of William, not Geneva or Jamie, his ACTUAL parents. William was born under the marriage of the earl. The earldom would not be taken away from William if it was known that the old earl wasn't his biological father, but polite society would certainly sneer at William if the truth came out, so William's family decided to keep it quiet. The show obviously has to cut things a lot down, so Jamie and John's friendship was A LOT more tumultuous in the books, so it wasn't nearly as jarring to us book readers when Jamie punched him in the face. Even if Jamie respects John and trusted him to raise his child, Jamie has DEEP-SEEDED homophobia because of Black Jack Randall, so he has ALWAYS hated the fact that John is gay and in love with him. Logically, he knows John is no Black Jack, and all of John's lovers were consenting adults, but Jamie still finds it absolutely repulsive. Actually, around the time when William was born, there was another altercation when John said something sexually provocative to Jamie, and Jamie punched him the face. They didn't speak for 3 years. Surprisingly, it was John's brother, Hal, that brought them back together. So their friendship, though it has always appeared warm and loving, has always been just one provocative comment away from violence. John absolutely knew that Jamie would punch him for saying that, but he did it anyway, because that's how their friendship works. In the behind the scenes stuff, the crew were saying how surprised they were to see this sassy, provocative, quick-on-his-feet version of Lord John, and David Berry was like "Well, I knew..." because this is the Lord John you get to know if you've read the spin-offs. He doesn't sit around waiting for Jamie to call. He's actually an incredibly busy man who has led a very interesting life.
Also, don't forget that Jamie has always been deeply religious too, and the assault has affected him in a very deep way. After that 1st horrific assault at Wentworth, if you study his face, he's got that utter fear that "Well, there goes my soul, I'm damned to hell now" (absolute masterclass in acting by Sam Heughan
When LJG said that Claire and he got drunk and later “got it on” they were both “f*cking Jamie”. This must have brought up bad old memories of Jamie’s torment and gay rape at Wentworth at the hands of BJR. Jamie was striking out at LJG in lieu of BJR after the old memories came out and reminded him of his past.
Exactly. Telling Jamie that he and Claire were both “f*cking” him, set him off. It reminded him of the rape and torture he had experienced years ago at Wentworth. The old memories came back, and Jamie was really punching out BJR or his ghost that still haunts his mind, still healing from the damage years later.
@@jgrafx Black jack was . never was mention in the TVSHOW just in the book even it sounds ridiculous . the tvshow took another path. all this changes is because this people can't shut the little filthy mouth about the book. (The way they mention it in season 2 in France was not mentioned now.)
William would have lost his inheritance if it was known Jamie was his father. I think he would inherit from both the Earl of Ellesmere and his maternal grandparents' Helwater, right?
The books actually explain that legally, William's paternity doesn't matter. He was born under the Earl of Ellesmere's marriage, so he is legally the son of that marriage, regardless of the biological truth. Jamie looked into that, wondering if he had a legal right to claim custody of William and was disappointed to find he did not have any rights. It would, however, be really difficult for William in polite society if it was known that though he is the Earl, legally, he isn't actually the dead Earl's son. It's especially maddening because both the Earl and Geneva were dead, so logically that should mean Jamie gets custody, but he didn't. The Dunsanys did. And Lord Dunsany actually asked Lord John to be William's godfather when he was a baby because they had no male relations who could step up if anything happened to Lord Dunsany. When William was 6, John decided to marry Isobel, so the two of them could be William's parents. Jamie was unaware that arrangement had already been made when he asked John to take William on as a son. So Lord John was both the Dunsanys' and Jamie's choice for William's adoptive father. This is why adultery was considered so much worse if a woman did it than a man - a man is legally obligated to care for his wife's child even if it isn't his. It's also why when a QUEEN commits adultery, that is considered treason. She is risking a non-royal child being born and placed in the line of succession.
He did inherit Hellwater. The British rules of inheritance are archaic, to say the least, but you are the Heir if you are born' under wedlock'. His "father" could have denounced him & changed who would inherit, but since he died the same day, the inheritance stands.
At this point in the books, I was very worried for William. He is so lost, but some things happen soon that reassured me a bit. That may not happen next episode though. You'll like episode 13 which aired this past Friday.
jamie teling clair.; Jamie; John said u both were fn me. clair ; its true. Jamie; how very dare ye ...“Who, dear? Me, dear? Gay, dear? No, dear!” lol lol lol
Jamie had in his coat the letter from the British Army renewing LJG’s Commission after many years. I am guessing that Jamie had picked it up and put it in his pocket to give to LJG later while pretending to kidnap and hold his friend “hostage” in order to use him to scape his home in Philly and not be arrested by the British soldiers he as running away from. There was a second letter hidden more privately on Jamie’s person in a pocket of his clothing, which was the information of huge interest to George Washington, which was why he did not which to be searched and found out. Washington eventually got his letter. Meanwhile the other letter about LJG’s renewal of military commission was what the patriots captured from LJG and how they learned he was related to his older brother Lord Grey, who had years ago executed a large number of Rebels. Knowing this, they were going to hang a man perceived as a “worthless British soldier of better value hanged” in revenge for what his brother did to Americans years ago.
No, if you go back to last episode, when John was going over the invitations he and Claire had received, he had another letter he was about to open when Jamie burst in. John stuffed the letter into his vest, William found out the truth, the soldiers burst in, and Jamie took John hostage, so John totally forgot he even had that letter that, as it turned out, reactivated his commission.
712 is definitely my favorite of S7 and it was jam packed so seeing your reactions to everything was so much fun. 99, if not 100% of the dialogue was directly from the books so, for me, it was watching the pages of the books come to life❤. There was an understanding between Jamie and John that John's feelings for him were never mentioned. Their friendship was built on that and when John said those words to Jamie he kicked that bridge out from under them. That's when Jamie lost his mind because it brings back thoughts of Black Jack.
This episode shows how much William is like Jamie. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
By the way, LOVE the color of your nails!
The opening Easter Egg was of an apple not falling far from the Tree. I believe when John stated their reasons for having sex it triggered a memory of Black Jack & he didn't think. When I first read John shouting out his' confession' to Jaime I yelled, telling him to shut up ! I think Jane meant keeping her honor was by giving him what he paid for.
5:50 Jamie was willing and able to take William with him to Scotland when his parole was finished. (How lovely would it have been if Jamie could have taken William home to be raised with Jenny's younger kids and eldest grandkids? Maybe Jamie wouldn't have married Laoghaire. Then William would have been WITH Jamie when Claire came back.) The reason Jamie didn't is because he did not have legal custody of William. Jamie looked into it and realized that unwed fathers had absolutely no legal claim on their children. Child custody law was so stupid in this time. A woman had no legal rights over her children if she was married. She had all the rights if she was not married. A man had all the rights if he was married to the mother, regardless of whether he was the actual father or not. He had no rights if he was not married to her. If the earl and Geneva lived, the EARL would have had custody of William, not Geneva or Jamie, his ACTUAL parents. William was born under the marriage of the earl. The earldom would not be taken away from William if it was known that the old earl wasn't his biological father, but polite society would certainly sneer at William if the truth came out, so William's family decided to keep it quiet.
The show obviously has to cut things a lot down, so Jamie and John's friendship was A LOT more tumultuous in the books, so it wasn't nearly as jarring to us book readers when Jamie punched him in the face. Even if Jamie respects John and trusted him to raise his child, Jamie has DEEP-SEEDED homophobia because of Black Jack Randall, so he has ALWAYS hated the fact that John is gay and in love with him. Logically, he knows John is no Black Jack, and all of John's lovers were consenting adults, but Jamie still finds it absolutely repulsive. Actually, around the time when William was born, there was another altercation when John said something sexually provocative to Jamie, and Jamie punched him the face. They didn't speak for 3 years. Surprisingly, it was John's brother, Hal, that brought them back together. So their friendship, though it has always appeared warm and loving, has always been just one provocative comment away from violence. John absolutely knew that Jamie would punch him for saying that, but he did it anyway, because that's how their friendship works.
In the behind the scenes stuff, the crew were saying how surprised they were to see this sassy, provocative, quick-on-his-feet version of Lord John, and David Berry was like "Well, I knew..." because this is the Lord John you get to know if you've read the spin-offs. He doesn't sit around waiting for Jamie to call. He's actually an incredibly busy man who has led a very interesting life.
Also, don't forget that Jamie has always been deeply religious too, and the assault has affected him in a very deep way. After that 1st horrific assault at Wentworth, if you study his face, he's got that utter fear that "Well, there goes my soul, I'm damned to hell now" (absolute masterclass in acting by Sam Heughan
The phrasing from John triggered Jamie, I think Black Jack vibes 🤷🏻♀️
When LJG said that Claire and he got drunk and later “got it on” they were both “f*cking Jamie”. This must have brought up bad old memories of Jamie’s torment and gay rape at Wentworth at the hands of BJR. Jamie was striking out at LJG in lieu of BJR after the old memories came out and reminded him of his past.
Exactly. Telling Jamie that he and Claire were both “f*cking” him, set him off. It reminded him of the rape and torture he had experienced years ago at Wentworth. The old memories came back, and Jamie was really punching out BJR or his ghost that still haunts his mind, still healing from the damage years later.
@@jgrafx Black jack was . never was mention in the TVSHOW just in the book even it sounds ridiculous . the tvshow took another path. all this changes is because this people can't shut the little filthy mouth about the book. (The way they mention it in season 2 in France was not mentioned now.)
Nothing makes me happier than logging on and seeing you reacting! 🎉🎉🎉🎉
William would have lost his inheritance if it was known Jamie was his father. I think he would inherit from both the Earl of Ellesmere and his maternal grandparents' Helwater, right?
The books actually explain that legally, William's paternity doesn't matter. He was born under the Earl of Ellesmere's marriage, so he is legally the son of that marriage, regardless of the biological truth. Jamie looked into that, wondering if he had a legal right to claim custody of William and was disappointed to find he did not have any rights. It would, however, be really difficult for William in polite society if it was known that though he is the Earl, legally, he isn't actually the dead Earl's son.
It's especially maddening because both the Earl and Geneva were dead, so logically that should mean Jamie gets custody, but he didn't. The Dunsanys did. And Lord Dunsany actually asked Lord John to be William's godfather when he was a baby because they had no male relations who could step up if anything happened to Lord Dunsany. When William was 6, John decided to marry Isobel, so the two of them could be William's parents. Jamie was unaware that arrangement had already been made when he asked John to take William on as a son. So Lord John was both the Dunsanys' and Jamie's choice for William's adoptive father.
This is why adultery was considered so much worse if a woman did it than a man - a man is legally obligated to care for his wife's child even if it isn't his. It's also why when a QUEEN commits adultery, that is considered treason. She is risking a non-royal child being born and placed in the line of succession.
He did inherit Hellwater. The British rules of inheritance are archaic, to say the least, but you are the Heir if you are born' under wedlock'. His "father" could have denounced him & changed who would inherit, but since he died the same day, the inheritance stands.
At this point in the books, I was very worried for William. He is so lost, but some things happen soon that reassured me a bit. That may not happen next episode though. You'll like episode 13 which aired this past Friday.
jamie teling clair.; Jamie; John said u both were fn me. clair ; its true. Jamie; how very dare ye ...“Who, dear? Me, dear? Gay, dear? No, dear!” lol lol lol
I agreed with you Evie. LJ is the greatest in the tvshow , About William poor thing I could feels his pain .
Jamie had in his coat the letter from the British Army renewing LJG’s Commission after many years. I am guessing that Jamie had picked it up and put it in his pocket to give to LJG later while pretending to kidnap and hold his friend “hostage” in order to use him to scape his home in Philly and not be arrested by the British soldiers he as running away from. There was a second letter hidden more privately on Jamie’s person in a pocket of his clothing, which was the information of huge interest to George Washington, which was why he did not which to be searched and found out. Washington eventually got his letter. Meanwhile the other letter about LJG’s renewal of military commission was what the patriots captured from LJG and how they learned he was related to his older brother Lord Grey, who had years ago executed a large number of Rebels. Knowing this, they were going to hang a man perceived as a “worthless British soldier of better value hanged” in revenge for what his brother did to Americans years ago.
No, if you go back to last episode, when John was going over the invitations he and Claire had received, he had another letter he was about to open when Jamie burst in. John stuffed the letter into his vest, William found out the truth, the soldiers burst in, and Jamie took John hostage, so John totally forgot he even had that letter that, as it turned out, reactivated his commission.
❤