Yeah, very annoying, that's why I reprogrammed mine. And with all of your other kits, you can even recalibrate the UT210E! (its factory-calibration is a wee bit course)
Hi Dave, I work in the automotive industry. The black box behind the ABS metal body control everything for the ABS. It indeed have some mosfet to turn on the motor, and more mosfet for the various solenoids. While you may be able to replace the black box only, I suggest that you replace the whole unit because you do not know why it failed (partial short in the motor that fried the fet but not strong enough to kill the fuse?) and the motor may have overheated for running that long. It is designed to run just a few seconds at a time, not minutes at a time. Also, there may be a third fuse for the ABS. It normally have the switched ignition, the pump motor battery feed and the solenoid battery feed.
Get that old ABS module back from the service shop and diagnose the failure? They'll usually let you take anything unless they want to get a core return credit. Those things are _expensive_ and better off fixing it and having them reinstall it anyway if it's simple (especially because wait times for parts these days can be long, especially from Nissan). Update: Quick research shows it's probably one of those mediocre Bosch ABS 8.0 modules that frequently fail
Changed out a bosch ABS 8.0 module today in a Holden commodore with one from a wreckers. It was intermittently losing can bus communications as the vehicle warmed up. Would start flashing the ABS light and the warning chime would go off until you drove it for about an hour and it would come good. I ended up just swapping the electronics and it seems to have fixed the issue. They're a rather strange thing inside if they're like the earlier bosch ABS units. They have bare silicon dies with bond wires on what looks like a ceramic substrate and a jelly-like potting compound over the top to keep moisture and air out. They're not just prone to failure but to add insult to injury they are near unrepairable. If Dave wants to tear one down a working one can be had for around the $100AUD mark
I believe your amp meter was set to AC amps, according to the display? BTW, this type of failure (of the ABS modulator/pump) is also quite common on the BMW R1x00 series, often indeed mosfets failing.
PS: You can re-programme your UNI-T UT210E meter to default in DC-modes, extend the range and ton of more things, it is really very good hackable! (even an analogue output)
@@Firecul If you are referring to the replacement of the mosfets, yes, it is quite involved; First there are, at some ABS modules, "tamper-proof" screws although you can find bits that do fit those and counter that measure. Secondly, the mosfets are often thickly covered with conformal coating. But even that does not have to stop you. I know there are companies making a living repairing such modules.... But you are correct, it is more involved and hurdles to take.
I only got one of those current clamps (same model) last year and it's something I should have gotten decades ago. Really really handy, I use it almost every day. Accurate too.
Don't bother fitting yourself, air in the ABS pump is a pig to bleed unless you have the diagnostics to put it into bleed mode. A scrapper unit will be full of air waiting to fill all the brake lines.
Is the ABS electronics a can bus module?. If its like the Volkswagen VAG then a replacement ABS module has to be re programmed for that vehicle. Simply changing the ABS module with a wrecker one wont work without re programing.
This just goes to show you Dave how some engineers couldn't care for maintenance on modern gear. BTW meter is in AC mode!! Got the same sucker myself, great for AC electrics!
Haha I have the same clamp meter and I always accidentally measure things in AC mode, some folks on the forum flashed the firmware to default to DC mode.
Don't just assume it's the ABS control module. Some have an external ABS pump relay located in the fusebox which may have welded closed. That would be a simple fix. If it's the control module, sometimes you can replace them by just unscrewing them from the valve body, then you don't have to take off all the brake lines and rebleed the entire brake system (which is not a simple procedure with an ABS system and requires a scanner with bidirectional support for your car). The ABS module has to be programmed to the car so that requires a scanner too.
That looks like some poor design choices by Nissan there. Having to remove the intake to get to the fuses, too bad if you need to pull a fuse quickly for some reason! Then also how the fuses are underneath with all the wires. I’m used to seeing fuses on the opposite side to the wires, and then just a lid over the fuses that you can easily get too and take off.
It's more common these days because of companies partnering up to save on development costs, using the same engine in multiple car designs etc. They just make it fit, there's no consideration for servicing and repair. Ultimately the consumer pays because repair tasks take longer to do.
@@6581punk I think Renault is special since almost everything they built in the last 20 years had complete disregard to user serviceability. Nissan is Renault, in case you weren't aware.
Anything below 20ma is considered normal.. The reason your's is bouncing between 6ma and 20ma is likely from a simple indicator light.. So if you just look around inside the car, there is likely a blinking LED somewhere.. Like on the radio, or maybe a clock if you have one.. Many cars will have an "Alarm" light that blinks on the dash or even on the door, near the lock. It just lets people who peak into the windows know that it's armed... I bet you could find that blinking light with a quick scan. :)
How about having to remove bumper to change a headlight bulb, or to replace the battery you need to remove the wheel and the inner fender liner as well.
Any chance you'll do a teardown of the unit once it's replaced? Part of me wants you to go all Mr. Carlson on its ass and see if you can fix it, even if you wouldn't want to actually use it again. (Safety-critical and all that.)
It is safer to drive with it disabled as in a faulty state it can spool hydraulic so limiting braking leading to pumping brake pedal. Not cheap for new block
I happen to have ABS issues on the car as well. It seems like one of the wheel sensors does not work reliably anymore. Sometimes the ABS light comes on after I have driven 10 meters or so, and later it may be off again. When it is still on when I arrive home, next day when I start the engine it will be on, but turn off after driving 10 meters. I seems to correlate with having lots of rain. I guess there is water ingress in the connector. Now unfortunately, the status of the ABS cannot be read via the OBD-II connector, at least not using commonly available software. So I fear I still have to go to a garage with no exact pre-diagnosis, which I always hate because garages basically do module swapping only. "Sir, that must be your ABS ECU! We need to replace it". While you know yourself that this cannot be the cause...
Could still be "only" the sensor - the rain may be incidental. Failing ABS sensors are quite common. Car specific scanners that can read ABS codes can usually be bought for under 100USD - but generic OBDII scanners will not work. The sensors are usually cheap and reasonably easy to swap.
@@Rob2 That is usually already part of the error code. If not, these model specific scanners can also output the speed of the 4 wheels - and it is usually obvious which one is the affected. (e.g. no signal at slow speeds).
@@TylerDurden-pk5km The problem is that on my car the ABS is still a separate unit from the main computer, and the OBD-II does not return info about the ABS. I can read all error codes of the engine, but not of the ABS. I do not know if it is at all possible to read ABS error codes via the OBD-II (maybe using some special command that tunnels a connection to the ABS control unit) or if that has to be done on a separate connector directly on the ABS. Of course when I would have info like the speed of the 4 wheels, it would be easy to find the faulty sensor. But indeed when I could read only the error code, that likely would reveal it. Unfortunately the display in the car itself also does not give detail, maybe there is some secret action like "pull the lights stalk 3 times" that would give more info, but I don't know it.
@@Rob2 That's normal and it is like that even on modern cars. It is the same connector - but as I had written in the original post: You need at least a low end, car specific reader that can communicate with the ABS/ESP module. Generic OBD-II reader will only communicate with the engine management system (ECU). Car specific means a cheap one only for that car or that vendor, or universal ones that support multiple brands. They usually start at 100USD ... and end at 10k-20k USD. ;) With some very rare exceptions you need the scanner and there is no other way to get the data. If the ABS light is illuminated and a code is stored, you maybe can get it read for cheap or free in a auto parts store or at a mechanic.
After seeing that PDJB (Power Distribution Junction Box) I NEVER EVER want to hear how horrible Ford, GM, and Stelantis engineers are. WTAF! Maybe Nissan has studio personele like the others do..."We have to hide the fuses on the bottom so they aren't visible if the cover is removed". Yep, seen that before when I was in automotive. Studio ran the show, and the engineers got blamed for all the freaking magic they had to do to please the studio teams (who must have all the dirt on executives, because they get crap approved by them that no sane person would ever allow).
Won't get a pink slip in NSW if the ABS light is on. Without a pink slip the vehicle cannot be re-registered once the 12 month registration expires. Most states in Australia have mandatory annual safety inspections
Did you hear about the lady with the Merc where someone bumped into the parking radar sensor and put it out of alignment, well the car won't start with the parking radar, a totally superfluous thing for driving, misaligned. $2500 to fix.
Maximum current draw after all modules have gone to sleep should be less than 40-50mA. Preferably want to see no more than 20-30mA. Some vehicles go to sleep within a few minutes, some can take up to an hour or so. All doors must be locked/latched, bonnet closed/latched etc before all modules will go to sleep.👍
That was just a 40A fusible link supplying power to the ABS pump motor, not a relay. The fuse was still good or the pump would not run, so replacing it will not help. If it has an accessible relay that is stuck on, then replacing that might fix the issue, but I'm pretty sure the pump module drives an N channel mosfet/s to switch the high current to the pump motor...internal to the ABS module.
Even 10mA could shorten the life of your battery if you're not driving it every few days. 30 days and you've lost 7Ah, the battery will be starting to sulphate, slowly. If it's 100mA, 30 days and a) it's as flat as a pancake and b) if even if takes a charge, it'll never be trustworthy again.
most cars drop power use as modules go to sleep, and you also find in a lot you can also put the vehicle into hibernate mode, which flips a bistable relay to depower almost all the modules completely, and which only keeps the BCM partly alive, along with the OBD port, so that you can plug in a diagnostic tool and enable the relay again. Drops battery power use to less than the self discharge level.
You can drive it, it's fine. Maybe in the rain or snow it may be problematic. But, its not really needed outside of slippery surfaces. Usually, it's a wheel speed sending unit, or the circuit that's gone bad. You can debug that with and oscilloscope. If you know which wires to probe.
These are pretty simple systems. Each wheel has a wheel speed sensor. If the brake pedal switch is engaged and one wheels speed is out of the expected specification. It will pump the brake automatically. Previous to ABS, The driver had to pump the brake manually. Yeah, the ABS can pump faster and sense that a wheel is rotating slower way before a driver notices.. sure. But that dosen't make the vehicle more dangerous at all. I think you have the knowledge to debug that circuit, they are pretty simple. But, I get it if you don't want to get all into vehicle electronic systems. Good luck.
Yes, meter was mistakenly on AC. The uni-t defaults to AC all the time which is annoying. Proper reading is about 100mA
Yeah, very annoying, that's why I reprogrammed mine. And with all of your other kits, you can even recalibrate the UT210E!
(its factory-calibration is a wee bit course)
100 mA sounds like a lot to me on a car that old....
The Fluke 87 also defaults to AC.
Just pull the motor off the abs unit and try it with straight 12v.
It's held on there by only few torx screws.
Dave also you can just replace the pump and not the module or the other way around or both it depends on what's wrong
Hi Dave, I work in the automotive industry. The black box behind the ABS metal body control everything for the ABS. It indeed have some mosfet to turn on the motor, and more mosfet for the various solenoids.
While you may be able to replace the black box only, I suggest that you replace the whole unit because you do not know why it failed (partial short in the motor that fried the fet but not strong enough to kill the fuse?) and the motor may have overheated for running that long. It is designed to run just a few seconds at a time, not minutes at a time.
Also, there may be a third fuse for the ABS. It normally have the switched ignition, the pump motor battery feed and the solenoid battery feed.
Good thing discovering why something failed is an EEVblog mission!
it is a while you are there issue...
Get that old ABS module back from the service shop and diagnose the failure? They'll usually let you take anything unless they want to get a core return credit.
Those things are _expensive_ and better off fixing it and having them reinstall it anyway if it's simple (especially because wait times for parts these days can be long, especially from Nissan).
Update: Quick research shows it's probably one of those mediocre Bosch ABS 8.0 modules that frequently fail
Changed out a bosch ABS 8.0 module today in a Holden commodore with one from a wreckers. It was intermittently losing can bus communications as the vehicle warmed up. Would start flashing the ABS light and the warning chime would go off until you drove it for about an hour and it would come good. I ended up just swapping the electronics and it seems to have fixed the issue.
They're a rather strange thing inside if they're like the earlier bosch ABS units. They have bare silicon dies with bond wires on what looks like a ceramic substrate and a jelly-like potting compound over the top to keep moisture and air out.
They're not just prone to failure but to add insult to injury they are near unrepairable.
If Dave wants to tear one down a working one can be had for around the $100AUD mark
I believe your amp meter was set to AC amps, according to the display?
BTW, this type of failure (of the ABS modulator/pump) is also quite common on the BMW R1x00 series, often indeed mosfets failing.
PS: You can re-programme your UNI-T UT210E meter to default in DC-modes, extend the range and ton of more things, it is really very good hackable! (even an analogue output)
Yeah, I'm leaning toward transistor failure
Trap for old players.
@@InspectorGadget2014 I'd love dave to do a video on doing this, I saw the post on the blog but looked more involved than I fancied at the time
@@Firecul If you are referring to the replacement of the mosfets, yes, it is quite involved;
First there are, at some ABS modules, "tamper-proof" screws although you can find bits that do fit those and counter that measure. Secondly, the mosfets are often thickly covered with conformal coating. But even that does not have to stop you. I know there are companies making a living repairing such modules....
But you are correct, it is more involved and hurdles to take.
I only got one of those current clamps (same model) last year and it's something I should have gotten decades ago. Really really handy, I use it almost every day. Accurate too.
A rare footage of Dave using a Uni-T meter.
proof that uni-t stuff is okayish for such jobs
this meter is great. i use it every day as a commerical hvac tech.
Don't bother fitting yourself, air in the ABS pump is a pig to bleed unless you have the diagnostics to put it into bleed mode. A scrapper unit will be full of air waiting to fill all the brake lines.
Is the ABS electronics a can bus module?. If its like the Volkswagen VAG then a replacement ABS module has to be re programmed for that vehicle.
Simply changing the ABS module with a wrecker one wont work without re programing.
Correct, it'll need to be programmed for the car.
This just goes to show you Dave how some engineers couldn't care for maintenance on modern gear. BTW meter is in AC mode!! Got the same sucker myself, great for AC electrics!
The car looks amazing for its age. I guest they don't use much salt on the roads in Australia 🙂
Car maintenance. Got to love it. Not lol it’s always fun working on something different. Dave the mechanic 👨🔧
Injectronics repair these kinds of things. Usually can be sent off through repco.
Haha I have the same clamp meter and I always accidentally measure things in AC mode, some folks on the forum flashed the firmware to default to DC mode.
😅 This has made me look like a fool so many times now, that I never assume auto mode on multimeters any more
Not the firmware, the EEPROM.
Don't just assume it's the ABS control module. Some have an external ABS pump relay located in the fusebox which may have welded closed. That would be a simple fix. If it's the control module, sometimes you can replace them by just unscrewing them from the valve body, then you don't have to take off all the brake lines and rebleed the entire brake system (which is not a simple procedure with an ABS system and requires a scanner with bidirectional support for your car). The ABS module has to be programmed to the car so that requires a scanner too.
Unlikely that a 2010 car still uses relays for that - usually the modus also integrates the ESP program nowadays.
Is the amp clamp accurate for such low draw? Maybe in-line (being careful not to interrupt power).
That looks like some poor design choices by Nissan there. Having to remove the intake to get to the fuses, too bad if you need to pull a fuse quickly for some reason! Then also how the fuses are underneath with all the wires. I’m used to seeing fuses on the opposite side to the wires, and then just a lid over the fuses that you can easily get too and take off.
Typical nissan design, there are worse ones.
I've seen worse design choices from Nisaan's parent company. Having to take off the AC compressor to adjust the valve lash every 60-80k for example.
It's more common these days because of companies partnering up to save on development costs, using the same engine in multiple car designs etc. They just make it fit, there's no consideration for servicing and repair. Ultimately the consumer pays because repair tasks take longer to do.
@@6581punk I think Renault is special since almost everything they built in the last 20 years had complete disregard to user serviceability. Nissan is Renault, in case you weren't aware.
Anything below 20ma is considered normal.. The reason your's is bouncing between 6ma and 20ma is likely from a simple indicator light.. So if you just look around inside the car, there is likely a blinking LED somewhere.. Like on the radio, or maybe a clock if you have one.. Many cars will have an "Alarm" light that blinks on the dash or even on the door, near the lock. It just lets people who peak into the windows know that it's armed... I bet you could find that blinking light with a quick scan. :)
i can smell the stink from that engine
It always boggles my mind when you have to disassemble something on the engine to get to the fuse box or change a headlight
How about having to remove bumper to change a headlight bulb, or to replace the battery you need to remove the wheel and the inner fender liner as well.
Any chance you'll do a teardown of the unit once it's replaced? Part of me wants you to go all Mr. Carlson on its ass and see if you can fix it, even if you wouldn't want to actually use it again. (Safety-critical and all that.)
It very much looks like a MSOFET failure in the control box.
Teardown of the electronics inside that ABS unit would make for an interesting video ;)
It is safer to drive with it disabled as in a faulty state it can spool hydraulic so limiting braking leading to pumping brake pedal.
Not cheap for new block
Definately tear down the broken one, there is a LOT of really quite clever stuff going on in there!
your meter was reading AC amps and not DC amps
I happen to have ABS issues on the car as well. It seems like one of the wheel sensors does not work reliably anymore. Sometimes the ABS light comes on after I have driven 10 meters or so, and later it may be off again. When it is still on when I arrive home, next day when I start the engine it will be on, but turn off after driving 10 meters.
I seems to correlate with having lots of rain. I guess there is water ingress in the connector.
Now unfortunately, the status of the ABS cannot be read via the OBD-II connector, at least not using commonly available software.
So I fear I still have to go to a garage with no exact pre-diagnosis, which I always hate because garages basically do module swapping only.
"Sir, that must be your ABS ECU! We need to replace it". While you know yourself that this cannot be the cause...
Could still be "only" the sensor - the rain may be incidental. Failing ABS sensors are quite common. Car specific scanners that can read ABS codes can usually be bought for under 100USD - but generic OBDII scanners will not work. The sensors are usually cheap and reasonably easy to swap.
@@TylerDurden-pk5km What I am trying to find is which of the 4 wheel sensors it is...
@@Rob2 That is usually already part of the error code. If not, these model specific scanners can also output the speed of the 4 wheels - and it is usually obvious which one is the affected. (e.g. no signal at slow speeds).
@@TylerDurden-pk5km The problem is that on my car the ABS is still a separate unit from the main computer, and the OBD-II does not return info about the ABS. I can read all error codes of the engine, but not of the ABS. I do not know if it is at all possible to read ABS error codes via the OBD-II (maybe using some special command that tunnels a connection to the ABS control unit) or if that has to be done on a separate connector directly on the ABS.
Of course when I would have info like the speed of the 4 wheels, it would be easy to find the faulty sensor. But indeed when I could read only the error code, that likely would reveal it. Unfortunately the display in the car itself also does not give detail, maybe there is some secret action like "pull the lights stalk 3 times" that would give more info, but I don't know it.
@@Rob2 That's normal and it is like that even on modern cars. It is the same connector - but as I had written in the original post: You need at least a low end, car specific reader that can communicate with the ABS/ESP module. Generic OBD-II reader will only communicate with the engine management system (ECU). Car specific means a cheap one only for that car or that vendor, or universal ones that support multiple brands. They usually start at 100USD ... and end at 10k-20k USD. ;)
With some very rare exceptions you need the scanner and there is no other way to get the data.
If the ABS light is illuminated and a code is stored, you maybe can get it read for cheap or free in a auto parts store or at a mechanic.
After seeing that PDJB (Power Distribution Junction Box) I NEVER EVER want to hear how horrible Ford, GM, and Stelantis engineers are. WTAF! Maybe Nissan has studio personele like the others do..."We have to hide the fuses on the bottom so they aren't visible if the cover is removed". Yep, seen that before when I was in automotive. Studio ran the show, and the engineers got blamed for all the freaking magic they had to do to please the studio teams (who must have all the dirt on executives, because they get crap approved by them that no sane person would ever allow).
some abs modules have to be reprogrammed for the car
I wonder the implications to insurance with the fuse removed long term...
Don't ask, don't tell. Highly unlikely they would ever check even if you are involved in an accident.
Won't get a pink slip in NSW if the ABS light is on. Without a pink slip the vehicle cannot be re-registered once the 12 month registration expires. Most states in Australia have mandatory annual safety inspections
You should meet up with Mighty car mods, I think they are in Sydney AU as well and focus on cars and fanking jokes.
My massage therapist is the former GF of one of the mighty car mod guys
@@EEVblog2 "Your ex is my "massage therapist"" - probably not the best conversation starter. ;)
Did you hear about the lady with the Merc where someone bumped into the parking radar sensor and put it out of alignment, well the car won't start with the parking radar, a totally superfluous thing for driving, misaligned. $2500 to fix.
Maximum current draw after all modules have gone to sleep should be less than 40-50mA.
Preferably want to see no more than 20-30mA.
Some vehicles go to sleep within a few minutes, some can take up to an hour or so.
All doors must be locked/latched, bonnet closed/latched etc before all modules will go to sleep.👍
If I was you, I'd switch the 40W fuse (relay) with another 40W fuse (relay) to see if the ABS works afterwards!? If so, Winner Winner Nissan Dinner!
That was just a 40A fusible link supplying power to the ABS pump motor, not a relay.
The fuse was still good or the pump would not run, so replacing it will not help.
If it has an accessible relay that is stuck on, then replacing that might fix the issue, but I'm pretty sure the pump module drives an N channel mosfet/s to switch the high current to the pump motor...internal to the ABS module.
Fuses aren't rated in W.
Even 10mA could shorten the life of your battery if you're not driving it every few days.
30 days and you've lost 7Ah, the battery will be starting to sulphate, slowly.
If it's 100mA, 30 days and a) it's as flat as a pancake and b) if even if takes a charge, it'll never be trustworthy again.
most cars drop power use as modules go to sleep, and you also find in a lot you can also put the vehicle into hibernate mode, which flips a bistable relay to depower almost all the modules completely, and which only keeps the BCM partly alive, along with the OBD port, so that you can plug in a diagnostic tool and enable the relay again. Drops battery power use to less than the self discharge level.
Thanks, Okurka.
You can drive it, it's fine. Maybe in the rain or snow it may be problematic. But, its not really needed outside of slippery surfaces.
Usually, it's a wheel speed sending unit, or the circuit that's gone bad. You can debug that with and oscilloscope. If you know which wires to probe.
These are pretty simple systems. Each wheel has a wheel speed sensor. If the brake pedal switch is engaged and one wheels speed is out of the expected specification. It will pump the brake automatically. Previous to ABS, The driver had to pump the brake manually. Yeah, the ABS can pump faster and sense that a wheel is rotating slower way before a driver notices.. sure. But that dosen't make the vehicle more dangerous at all.
I think you have the knowledge to debug that circuit, they are pretty simple. But, I get it if you don't want to get all into vehicle electronic systems. Good luck.
I have absolutely no interest in spedning the inordinate time to debug such a system.
Heh...
The first thing I do is remove the ABS fuse in a car fitted with ABS.
I think water got into the module.
Owning a Nissan is quite a burden....
3:56
First issue in nearly 200k
Japanese made cars are much more reliable than European or American cars.
Another day and another sex bot reported to useless UA-cam
Would be great if UA-cam actually blocks new ones from created lol