Restoring a Commodore CRT Monitor 1702 - Featuring Commodore Video! | The Perfect C64 Display.
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- Опубліковано 27 чер 2024
- In this episode I do a complete restoration on Commodore 1702 CRT Monitor from 1984. This vintage video monitor was purchased by my client and then mailed directly to me from an eBay seller. This CRT needs to have all the electrolytic capacitors replaced. I will need to create a custom capacitor kit. Please join me as I future-proof this lovely piece of vintage computer hardware.
#RetroTech #CRT #commodore64
For more information on repairs, diagnostics and to connect with me, please visit: / retrotechusa
Link to Cap Kit List: docs.google.com/document/d/e/...
Mouser Order for Kit (may need to adjust for backstock): www.mouser.com/ProjectManager...
Commodore 1702 Video 1 - Unboxing and Initial Checks: • Buying a Commodore 170...
Commodore 1701 Repair Video: • Commodore 1701 Video M...
The Best 240P CRT calibration suite: junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?ti...
Black RTV Silicone: www.amazon.com/dp/B01BWZ1RSK/...
Dielectric Grease: www.amazon.com/dp/B000AL2RI2/...
Intro ( 0:00 )
Commodore CRT Teardown ( 1:24 )
Internal Inspection & Hardware Information ( 1:55 )
Circuit board overview & restoration plan ( 5:03 )
De-solder / remove old capacitors ( 6:13 )
New Capacitor Kit Overview & Installation ( 9:04 )
Monitor Re-Assembly ( 10:29 )
IC/Chip Hardware Information for Video Signal ( 10:43 )
Power & Performance Testing ( 12:08 )
CRT Calibration Techniques & Methods - ( 13:38 )
Commodore Video / S-Video Testing ( 14:44 )
Commodore Video Switch Issue & Fix ( 15:15 )
CRT Visual Test Pattern Check - 240p Test Suite ( 16:09 )
Final Thoughts on Repairs ( 16:32 )
Slide Show from repair ( 17:31 ) - Наука та технологія
When re-capping the 1702 PCB, be careful when replacing C101. The silkscreened polarity indicator is reversed. Install the new cap in the opposite polarity printed on the PCB!
Ouch, this hurts! Do this means that the silkscreen is wrong?!
Ohhh...just what I needed. I still have my 1702 sidelined due to the CRT cutting out. Cannot wait to dig into this video.
I had these Many Years ago, use It to play snes, and nes, sound was great
Very satisfying refurb! Well done Steve!
Thanks buddy!
thank you for sharing. My is 40 years old never recaped and it works without any problems but next winter I will replace the old caps.
Excellent deep dive, thanks!
Thanks!
@3:55 I'm glad you don't recommend discharging it as such as touching the disconnected anode wire to ground literally does nothing to discharge the tube. The built up capacitive/dielectric charge is stored in the CRT glass itself, not in the flyback or chassis. The tube anode needs to be shorted to its external dag or dagwire. This is one of the biggest misconceptions I frequently see on youtube, outside of trying to discharge it to an outlet/earthed ground. Please be careful in the future, I don't wish to see you get bit by a tube
Thanks. Yeah, it definitely doesn't discharge the tube at all that way. That's why I mentioned that no one else should do that unless they are aware of how the stored electrical current actually works.
@@RetroTechUSA Hi Steve, you say in your comment that "it definitely doesn't discharge the tube at all that way" but in your video, you say the exact opposite by calling it "the trained pro way to discharge tubes". I am not sure where you learned to do this, but as established above, it is definitely not a way to discharge a tube, let alone a trained professional way. I understand that you added a disclaimer telling people not to do it but the fact remains that you show it on camera and clearly describe it as a way professionals discharge tubes. I don't mean to come off aggressive but for a CRT related youtube channel that has about 10K subscribers I find this worrying, it is definitely spreading misinformation about discharging tubes and someone could get hurt. I understand that when making videos, one is bound to make mistakes, that's fine but I think this is big enough of a mistake and there are a lot of beginners treating your videos as the source of truth to warrant some kind of fix.
@@RetroTechUSA Probably best to say it doesn't discharge the tube at all...
Makes me really want to pick up an old Commodore but don’t have the space!
I've been tuning in for a year or so and was wondering if I'd ever see one of these on the channel! I recapped mine about 6 months ago, it was my dad's and means a lot to me, it was our family "game TV" for a long time so it was cool to see you do a restoration of one. Thanks!
Could you send me the cap list?
such a cool screen! love the videos you make!
Thanks so much!
Great video. I just picked up my first 1702. It's in great shape, but I wanted to service it to make sure it lasts. I also think i have the chroma issue with the rear switch. Mine still has the front door and it's tight!
I've owned my Commodore for a few months now. I very much enjoy it. I've cleaned it for dust, and the image is great but I got to run something like the 240p test suite to even up the geometry. I also have a problem with the Horizontal and Vertical position knobs. If I don't keep the Vertical position a certain way it starts to flicker, if I don't keep the horizontal position knob a certain way the colors start to look washed out.
The Atari 800 from 1979 also had Y/C output. Not sure what monitors existed to take advantage of it then but it was removed by the time the 800XL rolled around.
Mine is in my closet and needs a cleaning and a recap. It was overheating least time it was used. I have a cap kit on the way but dang that desoldering gun is expensive.
@ 12:38 My favorite Rocking sound track from Thunder Strike / Sega CD
This is really cool Steve. I own a few Commodore 1702 monitors and will be keeping these as references from you bro. So this really made my day for sure. 8^)
Anthony..
Awesome! These really do age surprisingly well. Great look to them overall. Thanks Anthony
I picked one up back in October last year. It works great but I better do a cleaning of it.
i use to have one its sop working meany years ago
Hi Steve. Great walkthrough of the recap and servicing. I have a Commodore 1084S-D1 here that needs doing. I wonder if you have seen or worked on one before. Also what is the lubricant you put on the HT cap? Regards Graham
Thanks. I have not gotten to work on that model yet. The gel is called dielectric grease. It can be really helpful with eliminating crackles from under the cap. www.amazon.com/Permatex-22058-Dielectric-Tune-Up-Grease/dp/B000AL8VD2
I just got one!! Awesome you did a video about this! By the way, did this have any tilt problem? Mine has it, slightly. Is it safe to rotate the yoke with the monitor on if wearing isolating gloves?
thanks. The yoke should be okay to move without gloves, but make sure to avoid the connection point where the yokes cables are soldered to the yoke. That can be a hot spot for current on some CRTs
@@RetroTechUSA to be safe I'd always use gloves anyways, but thanks for replying. Love your videos.
Well then you are one year younger than I am.
I should be in a museum too...
what's the tube goo that you use - do I need fresh stuff? my main concern has always been discharging the tube so I never attempted repair
Just finished a full restore on a shed-found 1702. Wish I'd seen your vid earlier but now sub'd.
I removed the boards from the frame so they could fit in my ultrasonic. Was completely filthy with rat poo and tons of shed debris-now very clean but the body has quite a bit of patina. Did you note that C101 was incorrectly screen printed on the PCB and should be installed in opposite of the marked polarity?
Looks great and an awesome little monitor now! Thanks for the vid.
Apparently it was installed as per the silkscreen. See at ua-cam.com/video/xC5vLicNOm0/v-deo.html and ua-cam.com/video/xC5vLicNOm0/v-deo.html. But the original cap was installed the way it "should be" as seen at ua-cam.com/video/xC5vLicNOm0/v-deo.html.
Interesting...
I've got a question. My 1701 monitor has developed a buzz coming out of the speaker. The buzz can be heard when I turn the monitor on, even without anything connected. The frequency of the buzz dies away as the power bleeds away when I turn the monitor off. I've moved the monitor to a different place to rule out any interference but it's exactly the same regardless of where I put it.
Should I start thinking of replacing caps? Or might this be another issue?
Hi, I can't seem to find record of a PAL 1702. Do they exist? If not, would it be feasible to convert an NTSC 1702 to PAL? I converted my C64 to PAL for compatibility with demoscene by replacing VIC chip and a crystal, but I really love the look of the 1702. So gorgeous to me.
@retrotech hi i have a question just recently bought a commodore 1702 monitor and i connected my n64 on there to see if it works and it does but the picture is flickering. Do you know what that can be and if its fixable?
Hi! This video is amazing! I wonder if you could help me with a problem with a 1702, it won't power up; it blows the 1A fuse ( not the 4A fuse). I managed to unload the power supply by disconnecting B1 RED cable on the output, and the regulator (STR3125) seems to work fine, although with no load, it gives 160v at the output. So, if I load the PS with the rest of the board (Red cable), it blows the fuse. Any hint? Thanks in advance!
@Retro Tech C606 is a typo, 607 is the actual cap to replace. The silkscreen has them close together
Also thanks for putting this together, I just finished re-capping and have slightly improved colors and geometry (there wasn't much wrong to begin with)
Thanks for noting that.
This thing is built like a tank compared to the later Amiga monitors.
It does hold up well for its age.
Man I have wanted one of these for a while I just love the look of them. There was actually a person selling one on my local Craigslist and I tried messaging them a couple times but they just never responded and I am still pretty bummed.
Thanks. Fortunately they aren't as rare or pricey as PVMs and BVMs. Keep looking and I'm sure you'll find one.
If you’re in NYC I’m down to sell you one.
my commedore 1702 was broken so I opened it up and fixed the sound and picture but I shorted between 2 components while I was fine tuning it. now all it shows is fuzz, any recommendations?
Does anyone know how to adjust horizontal width? Service manual points to the L503(L522) pot, but I can't find it. And I've found two other posts of people saying they can't find it. Can you find it? Thanks.
So did the Cap replacement make the video any better? It looked good on your previous video. The camera never picks up the slight differences.
Late response but replacing caps just improves lifespan, with bad caps things start to fail.
Do you have any video showing how to fix the crooked image problem ? Thanks
i recently dusted off my Commodore 1084 CRT Monitor (13 inch?)... perfect for the RGB via SCART Playstation 1 mod... :) SCPH-7502 loving it... though the old Benq Flatscreen TV with SCART 4:3 also seems to work well, might do a LAG check on that one to compare... seems fine with the PS2 Component testing i did at least...
Hello. Is it possible to adjust the geometry on the motherboard in this monitor? I need to stretch the image up and down in my own and round it in a pin amp if possible
I see DKC, I click
Did you fix the lack of color that was interrupted by that switch on the back? I have the same and in addition, the disturbances show, but when I tap the switch panel with my finger, it stops. I'd rather fix it :)
Pro way to discharge? I think it is the CRT that holds the charge, not the flyback.
I have been dreading the day when mine needs servicing. The screen is a bit crooked and the lines flicker a bit.
@RetroTech, Could you update you're pre-made shopping cart on mouser? Many of the items in the cart are out of stock, and I'm not sure what alternatives will work. This is my first time recapping something to this magnitude, the most I've ever done is replace a single cap on a Casio keyboard, and that was just using the exact capacitor a youtube video told me to get; I've never made decisions on upgrading capacitors, so I'm quite nervous I'll choose something incompatible and damage my monitor.
console5 is selling cap kits for the monitor. I just bought one.
@@sanekibeko hi can you give me the link?
I use this with my Xbox.
I've got one of these, but I'm not sure how to hook up the chroma/luma from an SNES. What set up do you use? At 21:18 I saw some sort of gadget that does that. Do you mind pointing me in the right direction to get that kind of set up? Thanks, and cool video I may unfortunately have to use as a guide one day.
SVIDEO-TO-RCA-SHORT : S-Video/ S-VHS to RCA Y/C Luma Chroma Adapter Spl, and and female to female s-video adapter
@@chrisbarfield83 thanks my dude. I found a cable on Amazon that does just this.
@@yulopiari1 I got mines a couple weeks ago. I've just brought a monitor.
Any suggestions to fix the wonky signal select switch?
I have the same issue with mine, and would love to know if there is a solution.
Basically you have to flip the switch not 100% of the way. like, 80% of the way and it'll work.
Do you know if is it possible to make a ntsc color signal or making an rgb mod?
Hey Steve, is there a high-end PC CRT monitor on your repair list? That would be super helpful for a lot of people. Because adjusting those things can be a pain. Mine has a high resolution of 1600x1200 pixels. I adjusted the convergence, but somehow text isn't really sharp.
I'd like to, hopefully I can find a good one to work on soon. Most of the ones I've gotten in before have been pretty old and not as exciting as the good ones.
@@RetroTechUSA well. I own a "Infotronic FSR871CV Professional CRT monitor 21" VGA/RGB BNC" would that fit the bill? It also has a really cool small green display under the screen that indicates what the screen is doing.
Its from the mid 90s.
Screen goes iff after a few seconds using the front composite video. I can’t figure this out. Any ideas?
Do you park your vehicles in your garage at all or do you use your garage as a CRT workshop?
Oh man, I haven't parked in my garage in years, lol. I literally unplugged my garage door opener.
It’s a workshop and game room now.
Love the video. Considering its old age, how was the CRT? I Mean, it looks really fine. I have a 1986 NEC-pctv 451 that's just about the same age of that commodore but mine is a bit dim even with the brightness knob maxed out. Just a newbie question for an expert like you, did you adjust this commodore's screen potentiometer in the flyback? I mean,is it safe? I asked this because I read in some forums and comments that adjusting the screen knob in the flyback for a 35yr old monitor will just shorten its life. I hope i could show it to you. TIA. Great video as always.
I have one of these and the picture has a bit of empty space towards the top, like the image is slightly too low. How could i fix this? the v. hold doesn’t help.
you have to use the vertical center and size potentiometers. I show them in the video. Just center the screen and the expand it using the size adjuster.
Where is the 240P suite? They list many versions, but not C64.
Dumb question ? Is possible to scart mode this type of monitors , will it make any difference ?
I think it's possible with the 1084s and some later models, but not these 1701/1702. Some of the 1084s (I believe the European ones) already have SCART ports. The US versions have a blank that can be punched out, so along with the port you'd need to add several missing resistors and jumpers.
you know you can use svideo with the snes and monitor
i have one with scratch on the screen. how can I fix it? 😢
How can i fix the sharpness ot this monitor?
How are you removing the speakers, are you just ripping off the contacts?
Its not that old. My bvm is only 4 years younger.
The Atari 800 which came out in 1979 had composite and luma/chroma output. What monitors had those connections back then? Most people used C= monitors on them.
Is your WiFi fixed yet? I know you have AT&T.
hi retro tech i have a crt monitor that has screen warping do you know how to fix that problem
You can try adjusting linearity in the adjustment menu if available. It could need the caps on the linearity control line replaced too.
@@RetroTechUSA I think the caps need replacing I just don't have the experience
To diagnose the board
And I don't know what to look for on the board
the switch on the back can also be dirty i had the same problem
Yeah, It worked much better after I cleaned it a little and switched it back and forth a bunch.
Common problem
later ones they upgraded to a bigger switch it can also cause your audio to go out. I can't seem to locate the smaller switch but the bigger ver is easy to find on ebay.
mine is a samsung tube
DOOD!
I'm not sure what you think grounding the anode lead is doing. DON'T DO THIS, it does nothing. The charge is on the anode itself that is the coating inside the glass envelope that the anode lead connects to! Otherwise the video was great and makes me want to get to my 1702 sooner.
I cannot believe this guy is showing this stuff with little knowledge. It’s not the anode cap that holds the charge, it’s the crt itself! Hence discharge the tube!
"Trained pro way of discharging the tube." ⚡📺😲
I reckon. I was under the impression the techs use a probe connected to ground, via a resistor that’s in the M ohm range. They then touch the anode with that probe, before they even remove the anode from the CRT. I cant recall right, but don’t they also connect the tube’s anode to the ground strap via a wire?
I saw one 1701 repair video where the guy grabbed the CRT by its neck and lifted it that way. Major cringe. I know I wouldn’t lift one out of its housing like that - I’m too scared of the tube cracking and imploding, so I refuse to hold it at its most delicate point. Especially on a ~40 year old glass tube.
@@adriaanstolk4487 Yep. Now, on that flyback the external focus/screen block is connected to the EHT and will discharge the tube within seconds of power loss anyway. And yes, you ground the CRT anode when the lead is removed because it can build back up from charge trapped in the glass and bite you when you go to put the lead back on. Keep all HV capacitors safely shorted when the bleeders are removed!
How much would you restore mine for ?
Too bad not rgb too
I know, that would be nice.
@@RetroTechUSA would it be possible to mod one to take an rgb signal?