Action economy is always the best choice in RPGs. Playing a necromancer in D&D or pathfinder is extremely game breaking just for the sheer chance of putting 5 more characters doing stuff in combat
I love seeing how people view the disciplines because it gives you an idea of how they play and how they use them. I would rank fortitude as one of my must haves. Presence doesn’t need eye contact and is pretty powerful. Dominate to keep a herd and retainers. If those are my faves it doesn’t take a genius to figure out, I’m a frequent Ventrue player (V20).
Was surprised to see Fortitude so low as well. Though I've never played, I'm big a big fan of universe and everyone online I've seen discuss the strength of disciplines tends to value Fortitude pretty highly.
@@kylepask4989 Imo physical disciplines such as potence, celerity and fort is mandatory if you ever going to make a fighting character, and fortitude is mandatory for all characters. It is basic stat increase though, maybe thats why people are underestimating it.
My toreador character: Hmmm presence being so low on the list gives the slight impression that my amazing clan is being deliberately misrepresented.... hmmm I wonder why
Protean, Viscissitude, and Abombwe are my favorite disciplines, shapeshifting is a classic vampire power and its a shame that it isn't used a lot in modern vampire media anymore since it is one of the more terrifying vampire abilities. Being able to turn into wolves, bats, or mist is just cool and you can call me power gamer all you want but being able to transform into 8 feet tall, demonic, bat monster is always gonna be badass in my book. Shouts out to Shape of the Beast Wrath and Horrid Form, gotta be some my favorite elder powers.
I would like to defend fortitude as it is a power that serves a purpose to tell the story of a clan. Those that have it are sturdy, enduring, and determined. It gives the Ventrue a cold, slow, and methodical approach to combat as they will tend to seek to trade blows with an opponent and use their toughness to grind out an advantage and it allows for the Gangrel to feel wild and unstopable as they approach with a horrific bestial form that shrugs off attempts to stave it off. Contrass this with the quickened grace of a Toreador's perfected strike or the rabid speed and power of a raging Brujah and I think it serves its purpose well to give clans a conceptual difference. Though I will agree in roleplay its effects out of combat is minimal to non-existent and its in combat effects can be powerful but they tend to be passive and as such they don't feel as impactful as being able to toss a person through a concrete wall or striking with speed so quick that the enemy simply does not have the time to dodge. The discipline allows for cool vampire moments to exist in lore and works great on NPCs to give them an air of authority and menace both in and out of battle but in the hands of the player it does feel a bit bland.
My favourite is potence. Simple but fun. I love using it in V5 it’s great if you like describing awesome stunts and wrestling style finishers. Zangief style super piledrivers, grabbing people through walls like robocop ripping up street signs, ‘puny goding’ people, etc.
It's always a pleasure for me to know your thoughts and opinions on various things in the World of Darkness and it was especially interesting to hear about the Disciplines. As always, in some ways I agree, in some ways I disagree, but I believe it cannot and should not be different. But I have to say, I totally agree with you on Obeah/Valerian, Bardo and Abombwe. Always loved these Disciplines despite all the complications surrounding them. And also I want to appreciate the magnificent tribute that you have paid to my beloved Vissicitude, Protean, Necromancy and Chimerstry. Thank you 👍
I'm glad someone can actually admit how screwed presence can be. A lot of people down play it. Then for me when it comes to disciplines I tend to focus on the more defensive and utilitarian. Your attributes and skills should carry for the most parts, disciplines make sure it does. So fortitude to make sure when things get physical you can survive(even banes have less of an effect). Auspex so you can gather information and be aware of your surroundings. Being able to see the supernatural and understanding what you are dealing with can be both used offensively and defensively. My favorite maneuver using telepathy with presence to make sure people do what you want. Then last is presence. Its quiets and has multiple uses. Finally in V5 the negative emotion powers are useful(they were so hard to use in V20). Using awe to get things done, entrancement with summon for long game schemes, majesty for any conflict, and with the old combo disciplines buff your coterie with physical and mental advantages(Examples Esprit de Corps and Give em Hell).
Got into Wod Thanks to people like you, I wont deny I use you as my bedtime storyteller. Thank you for showing this wonderful world. I can hope one day WoDE can become popular in Latinamerica, now that Warhammer is booming here I can tell its a matter of time.
in my decade long Sabbat Larp im running an Orbitus lineage Tzimize elder with a bunch of out of clan Animalism and its fun as hell. Cloak the gathering + horrid form + a gang of Szlacta dropping out of freaking nowhere is a hell of a shock for the average Cammie on the street. Animalism is really working for me in our larp system for simple scouting ability. also, yeah, Dominate gets real nasty if you think about it for like 5 seconds
I personally never had much of an issue with Dementation. I used it on a stealthy Malkavian to wage psychological warfare on the enemy. Usually by intensifying arguements or heightening someone's paranoia.
In most of the Vampire games I've played, the players didn't seem to 'get it.' They ran around, gathering up material things like homes, cars, and an immense collection of weapons. Meanwhile, I was quietly (I also love the Nosferatu) spending xp on new Skills, Disciplines, Contacts, and my Haven. To me, true power is what you carry with you. Sure, I had several cars, but they all looked like crap. They ran well and had hidden surprises (like armor) but they looked terrible. However, I traded favors with other Clans to get new and powerful Disciplines. When the coup for the city began, I was the one who defended my Clan and the Prince from attack. The rest lost most of their fancy stuff, at least for a while. The following night, I was hale and hearty and on the prowl again.
.Obuscate is also my favorite disapline in VTM because it is more of a mental manipulation power than invisibility and I really like how you can obscure reality with it
Tbh i rate all 3 physical disciplines as necessery in V20. Potence, celerity and fortitude specifically buffs your base stats enough that you actually feel like a vampire instead of slightly more powerful human. Protean though is my favorite, non-basic discipline. Just 2 dots alone gives you access to aggravated damage at will, and 3rd will give you ability to take shelter anywhere on earth. Not to mention, they have some of my favorite elder powers. Flesh of Marble is the most powerful Lvl6 Combat power, if taken with high fort, that is going to force anyone who wish to attack you, into doing it with fire & magic or give up trying. After protean, its all about what you want out of your character. Want social powers, get Presence or Dominate, want to get places you're not supposed to, get Obfuscate. Wanna be shadow monster, get Obtenebration. So long as you can protect yourself, rest is up to you.
Protean, Obtenebration and Thaumaturgy are my top 3 disciplines, which makes sense since they are the iconic disciplines of my 3 favourite clans lol. I do like animalism, but if Im being honest with myself, I prefer playing City Gangrel so I can have obfuscate. I have however always thought that a more nature oriented variant of the Tremere could be cool, using Animalism and maybe being related to House Carna, that probably my love of witches speaking.
For me, Disciplines are part of what draw me to a particular clan. I'm a fleabag at heart and yes I main Fighter in D&D so I like the ones that can combine combative utility and or social benefits, but if you can pull that and heap a mak truck of flavoring on it then you have me sold. So big shock my #1 is Serpentis, I go back and forth on if I like the Setities or the Geovani (yes I will not look v5 in the face I was brought up on Revised edition and liked it so eat me) better. But they both have so much flavor pouring out of there ears anyone who can pull them off effectively will chew the sceneary like a package of big league chew.
Lore, I hope you know that everytime you make a video, or I drop into the Discord, I end up wanting to play VTm. I blame you for this, and thank you at the same time.
Necromancy at 3. The ability to make magical items out wraiths by binding them into objects can be very customizable. find weakness, then craft wepon replicating weakness/10. The discapline that the Baali antribru have that specificly fucks up DEMONS at 2. I have something just for you, all powerful satan wanabe/10. Fortitude at 1. Not meeting final death is always great/10.
Ogham gets done so dirty in DAV20. It goes from "write a rune on your body to curse your enemy when they see it" to "ritually kill a human being who is important to your target, and they get cursed when they see the corpse"... Yeah, that's gonna work *great* on the prince. Dementation I like in theory but the mechanics just suck. Thankfully Malkavians can have Dominate instead. Fun video. I look forward to the one ranking all paths of blood magic; as well as the hour long video ranking every ritual ever published ever... should be interesting.
Being a fan of V5 I used to rate the disciplines analytically but after 4 years of V5 existence, I must say all of the disciplines in their own right are useful, fun, and intriguing, this is purely V5 but I find that fortitude, Celerity, and Potence are so much more interesting because it's not solely super-resistance, super-speed, and super-strength, they encompass more areas - Fortitude allowing Mental Resistance, Withstanding Torture etc. So my conclusion from the V5 system is there is no bad discipline, they are all amazing in what they correspond to do and more, I have my personal favorites but do not think any one of the disciplines presented in V5 is bad in any area, even Lore as I'm personally a fan of Blood Sorcery being the overall name for the mash of the Banu and Tremere mastery of blood magic, Oblivion being the plane Necromancers summon spirits from and Lasombra actually manifest into reality around them, it explains where Lasombra got their obtenebration from. And on the subject of Dementation, I can see it being Dominate over Auspex, Dominate is Vampiric Mind Control, focusing on the Will and breaking it or replacing it with the user's own to get access to another's mind and do what the vampire will with it, it makes sense to me at-least that this would encompass actively slowly destroying the mind via a conversation, enforcing the Malkavian's will on another vampire and eroding the will of the target, making them in the end suffer a complete mental breakdown. Although, I do find that the most weakest discipline in V5 is Obfuscate (While I understand it makes sense for the Ravnos to use Obfuscate as an extension of Chimerstry, I feel like Obfuscate has way too many powers mismatching too much of the vampire clans specialties into just Obfuscate, I'm also not a big fan of the rules written for Obfuscate but do still enjoy it and don't think it's necessary bad in any factor, V5 really improved the tools given for STs and Players to explore.
The problem with amalgamating Necromancy and Obtenebration isn't the fluff implicating the Lasombra's shadows come from Oblivion. You can easily add fluff like that without the mechanical/thematic weirdness that Oblivion (the discipline) creates.
@@realkosherpork9223 I wouldn't really imo consider it fluff, because V20 didn't really tell us what Lasombra were doing to control the shadows, but now it makes perfect sense that they're drawing the actual being of Oblivion into the darkness around them and using it almost like an extension of themselves and that's why the shadows tend to whisper or act on their own accord, whereas with Necromancy they're controlling specifically the denizens of Oblivion that being wraiths. Obtenebration does exist same with Necromancy but they're collided into Oblivion, personally though I would advise against mismatching the actual power lines and ceremonies against the clan. Mechanically I don't see anything wrong with Oblivion, the rules are more clear and I enjoy that this could effect your humanity. I personally enjoy the ceremonies for the Hecata and even the Lasombra powers. ^ Just my thoughts on the subject.
@@TheCourtsOfLove V20 implied it and V5 could've stated it without combining two signature disciplines. A Lasombra who raised zombies and a Hecata who commands shadows make little sense, yet that is the implication of the new discipline. Further complicating things, controlling wraiths and controlling Oblivion are two different things. Oblivion, by all accounts, is what destroys wraiths.
@@realkosherpork9223 I remember V20 implying Obtenebration was stuff to do with demons, it never gave us a solid answer and so many theories came up but as far as my knowledge goes, Demons and the Abyss were the most commonly used to explain what Lasombra were calling on, V5 gave us the definitive answer that it's Oblivion and the ShadowLands surrounding it. And yes, I agree I wouldn't allow Lasombra to take Hecata specific powers, V5 Oblivion has laid out what is Lasombra and what is Hecata specifics, while there's no mechanic stopping mismatching, the ST can always decide to homebrew the rule. Since the discipline revolves around the Shadowlands, Hecata focus on controlling the wraiths and that is Oblivion because they contribute, enslave to the wraiths destruction in the end, the Lasombra control parts of the Shadowlands via Oblivion and Manifest it in the darkness around them. Oblivion is just one overall name for the discipline, Obtenebration and Necromancy is listed in the other names for it, what V5 has done is more made their origin come from the same place. It's like with Blood Sorcery, Blood Sorcery is the overall name for Thamaturgy and Quitas, combining them into the same origin of blood sorcery as both utilize the blood to perform magic. These are just my thoughts on it, I understand if any wouldn't agree with it but for me it makes sense and is natural to incorporate into a new system, it also gives the benefit of not having a large number of disciplines.
@@TheCourtsOfLove If there are clearly Hecata and Lasombra -specific powers, they should be separate disciplines. Otherwise, the merger is confusing and nonsensical IMO. Lore wise, binding a wraith's corpus still feels sufficiently different from manipulating oblivion. WoD's afterlife is fleshed out enough that you don't need to shoehorn all thing's death-related together. The Baali often refer to a pit, but I don't believe that was ever directly tied to Obtenebration.
a Kiasyd NPC shows up towards the end of the court of cups chronicle. Unfortunately its right before the story ends so the character doesn't get fully developed. But Jasmin, the storyteller, does a good job of capturing how alien & outside kindred society they are.
@@socio9807 I don't recall which episode. It's towards the last stretch of the chronicle. The players are mostly staff at Penny arcade. So it's a comedy themed chronicle. Imagine if acquistions incporated folks played V5.
Have you ever thought about doing a ranking on all the Paths of Thaumaturgy? Thaumaturgy has always been an all time favorite of mine with how versatile you could be
Allow me to propose a thought experiment. If all those vampires and other supernatural elements in this setting where real. If you (personally, not a character) had to be transformed in a vampire, but could somehow choose by which clan. In those circumstances, would you choose by the disciplines available? Which disciplines would you consider the best ones? My impression is that physical disciplines are very nice and useful in the game, but mostly way less so in this hypothetical context. Celerity is still better than most, except protean. However, auspex and obfuscate (sorry, I only speak third edition) are way more desirable for most people, probably. Presence too. In the end of day (night, actually) most of us would be prioritising NOT to enter in fights a lot more than we already do. Knowing that we are potentially eternal, aging do not brings decay. And our existence is all we have, it is not a game. I also suspect that most of us would look the social dynamics and "internal culture" of each clan a lot more before make the choice. The vampiric powers would be a lot less important in 'first person' real life than they are in tabletop RPG. What you think?
A bit surprised to see Fortitude so low. Well, and I am also not. It is very boring. And I always felt it was very underwhelming in older edition... yes, it allowed to soak Aggravated damage, but it was a very poor defense against. Having 3 dices against someone with claw rolling up on your with 8 agg didn't do much at all. In V5 tho, it is a powerhouse of a discipline and very much what the 'meta' of combat is build around. It's still boring... but it's sheer power makes it odds to see it ranked dead last.
In V5 you can argue it’s mechanically boring but thematically I think it’s insanely cool. You are *truly* an unstoppable force. Picturing a Banu Haqim anointing and putting scorpion’s touch on their blade… and with toughness you can reduce both the damage of the weapon and the poison to basically just shrug it off. Or when an ancilla or elder tries to dominate you, have the bonus dice of unswayable mind go “fuck your 4 dots in dominate” … the mental image of Fortitude is what’s cool about it, to me.
@@bromora989 And don't forget Prowess from Pain. Just imagine how terrifying it would be fighting a elder Gangrel and the more damage you deal to them they become stronger and faster like some kind of vampire berserker.
Im new to VTM. Quick question, I know clans have three disciplines but wanted to know are they bound to those only? Or, for example, could a Ventrue manifest Obtenebration?
They would have to be taught it, which involves a little sip from the vampire in question and be taught how to use it. In this particular example, that would be very unlikely to happen
Honestly? If your Coterie is okay with you playing a non-combat, "utility" PC, I think playing the lone Thinblood within the Neonates and utilizing Alchemy is really powerful in V5. In absolute terms, the Thinblood will never be the best in terms of raw number of dice rolled, due to having no Blood Potency. When optimized for combat, the best they can do is being a ghoul++. And starting the game, they are at a severe disadvantage in terms of Discipline dots, with a maximum of 1 vs 3 for a Fledgeling with the right Predator Type. But as a lone Thinblood in a Kindred group, your job's to stay out of the fights, investigate in the daylight, and - most importantly - fill in all the gaps. You can have one dot in any Discipline by feeding on the right Resonance. But even if you go the way of the non-Hunter (fun fact: many countries have national dishes made of animal blood, such as black pudding or blood sausages, so chances are you can buy such blood at the local butcher), you've still got Alchemy. Whereas in the short term, your mastery of Disciplines will always be weaker than the others', and whereas you can never counterfeit level 5 powers, you have a few advantages. 1. You've got only one (at most two, with Discipline Affinity) Discipline to invest in, so you can focus on leveling it up more while loosing nothing in versatility. 2. Other Kindred only get one Power per Discipline level. Sometimes, they will pick some powers that they have no use for just because they want to progress in the Discipline. You have no such limitations, and are free to pick and choose. 3. No Blood Potency but still want to be powerful? You can add extra dice with a Laboratory or special ingredients! Sure, there's a cost, but play your cards right and it can be very powerful. Also, gathering ingredients or setting up a supply line are useful story hooks. (Edit: forgot to mention that these added dice only affect Distillation rolls, your Discipline rolls will still suffer compared to someone with high Blood Potency. However, getting a large number of bonus dice to get 6+ successes on the Distillation roll will empower that Formula, which could give you a much needed edge.) 4. Foregoing any costs in terms of ingredients and research time (remember, we're playing the long game here), the Xp cost per power, after investment in the appropriate Alchemy level, is in fact lesser than the cost of the power itself, for powers of level 2 or more. The cost of a counterfeit formula is (original level of the power + 1) * 3. That is: - 6 Xp for a level 1 power, so more than the base price of 5 Xp for an in-clan Discipline, but you can just get the power by drinking blood of the appropriate Resonance if needed - 9 Xp for level 2 powers, cheaper than the base price of 10, if not by much - 12 Xp vs 15 normally for level 3, 15 Xp vs 20 for level 4!
Mechanics aren't everything. What's most important is the story, and the mechanics should be in service of the story. The point I'm trying to make is that given the right circumstances, and by playing the long game, a Thinblood in a group of Neonates is more than able to justify their existence, contributing significantly to the Coterie by their sheer versatility, and arguably, keeping up in terms of effectiveness even when their group is filled with diablerizing maniacs with high Blood Potency. Just don't make them fight 😅
well Thaumaturgy and necromancy are in the top 3 so guess it's acceptable ;) End of the day i love power paths for the flavor they can add to your characters. you want to play a tech focus character embraced by the Tremere, well instead of playing with your bloody food, take the path of technomancy, you were a wiccan than The Green Path is for you, and so on. There's a reason Oblivion is honestly my favorite Discipline in V5 at the moment, like i HATE them just fusing Obtenebration and Necromancy sure but OPP took the time to give us two flushed out Disciplines that let's you get creative with your characters.
Great quality video has to be praised, for using V20(undead heart emoji) the praise should be extra loud! Also we demand to know the Ferret story!!!! For research purposes of course
@@LoreByNightVtM I may like a lot of V5 retcons and bullshit but I would never put down someone who likes it. I mean even you have to dislike some of V5s stuff. Iove V20 but I even know its not perfect and there are others who don't like it or some of it or all of it.
Celerity is the strongest, most game breaking discipline, in V20. Two words, Action Economy.
Not as broken as previous editions. It's better balanced now but still a bit too strong maybe.
Action economy is always the best choice in RPGs. Playing a necromancer in D&D or pathfinder is extremely game breaking just for the sheer chance of putting 5 more characters doing stuff in combat
I love seeing how people view the disciplines because it gives you an idea of how they play and how they use them. I would rank fortitude as one of my must haves. Presence doesn’t need eye contact and is pretty powerful. Dominate to keep a herd and retainers. If those are my faves it doesn’t take a genius to figure out, I’m a frequent Ventrue player (V20).
Was surprised to see Fortitude so low as well. Though I've never played, I'm big a big fan of universe and everyone online I've seen discuss the strength of disciplines tends to value Fortitude pretty highly.
@@kylepask4989 Imo physical disciplines such as potence, celerity and fort is mandatory if you ever going to make a fighting character, and fortitude is mandatory for all characters. It is basic stat increase though, maybe thats why people are underestimating it.
timestamps
1:11 caveats
2:38 Fortitude
3:17 Animalism
4:26 Temporis
5:05 Dementation
5:51 Auspex
6:30 Pressence
7:10 Mytherceria
7:47 Daimonion
8:25 Celerity
8:57 Melpominee
9:23 Quietus
10:01 Dominate
10:41 Potence
11:17 Sanguinus
11:51 Viceratika
12:16 Thanatosis
13:03 Vissicitude
14:09 Obeah/Valerian
14:46 Spiritus
15:24 Protean
16:06 Serpentis
16:49 Ogham
17:24 Chimeristy
18:09 Bardo
18:52 Obtenebration
19:37 Abombwe
20:33 Thaumaturgy
21:18 Necromancy
22:03 Obfuscate
Sanguinus time stram is wrong, it's supposed to be 11:17
Also, it's nice to see someone appreciate Obeah at least a little bit. It's strange that so few people like the unicorns in this fandom
I've been waiting a long time to play a Salubri. But for now I have to be content with being my group's ST.
sad eye you mean
@@freedfalchion9860 so sad I might shed a tear
@@MarcelineRaven what's the plan for the character, if you don't mind me asking?
Salubri are either saints or the devil incarnate
Various Tarzan noises is my new favorite rating out of 10 lol
My toreador character:
Hmmm presence being so low on the list gives the slight impression that my amazing clan is being deliberately misrepresented.... hmmm I wonder why
Best lore channel, 1 minute in and I'm howling at V20 being called "dummy THICC" 😂
Such high praise for such low-hanging fruit, thanks so much 😂
Two way tie between him and lazar of Stygia
I almost spit out my Yorkshire gold tea laughing when you rated a discipline Bibitty Bobitty boo out of ten. Great video LBN! 🧛♂️
I liked the Sascha Vykos testicles/10 🤣
Protean, Viscissitude, and Abombwe are my favorite disciplines, shapeshifting is a classic vampire power and its a shame that it isn't used a lot in modern vampire media anymore since it is one of the more terrifying vampire abilities. Being able to turn into wolves, bats, or mist is just cool and you can call me power gamer all you want but being able to transform into 8 feet tall, demonic, bat monster is always gonna be badass in my book. Shouts out to Shape of the Beast Wrath and Horrid Form, gotta be some my favorite elder powers.
I would like to defend fortitude as it is a power that serves a purpose to tell the story of a clan. Those that have it are sturdy, enduring, and determined. It gives the Ventrue a cold, slow, and methodical approach to combat as they will tend to seek to trade blows with an opponent and use their toughness to grind out an advantage and it allows for the Gangrel to feel wild and unstopable as they approach with a horrific bestial form that shrugs off attempts to stave it off. Contrass this with the quickened grace of a Toreador's perfected strike or the rabid speed and power of a raging Brujah and I think it serves its purpose well to give clans a conceptual difference. Though I will agree in roleplay its effects out of combat is minimal to non-existent and its in combat effects can be powerful but they tend to be passive and as such they don't feel as impactful as being able to toss a person through a concrete wall or striking with speed so quick that the enemy simply does not have the time to dodge.
The discipline allows for cool vampire moments to exist in lore and works great on NPCs to give them an air of authority and menace both in and out of battle but in the hands of the player it does feel a bit bland.
God the immediate joy I get when I see a new LBN ep
My favourite is potence. Simple but fun. I love using it in V5 it’s great if you like describing awesome stunts and wrestling style finishers. Zangief style super piledrivers, grabbing people through walls like robocop ripping up street signs, ‘puny goding’ people, etc.
I don’t agree with several on the list but I did appreciate the short explanations because it’s easy to see where you’re coming from.
It's always a pleasure for me to know your thoughts and opinions on various things in the World of Darkness and it was especially interesting to hear about the Disciplines. As always, in some ways I agree, in some ways I disagree, but I believe it cannot and should not be different.
But I have to say, I totally agree with you on Obeah/Valerian, Bardo and Abombwe. Always loved these Disciplines despite all the complications surrounding them.
And also I want to appreciate the magnificent tribute that you have paid to my beloved Vissicitude, Protean, Necromancy and Chimerstry. Thank you 👍
I'm glad someone can actually admit how screwed presence can be. A lot of people down play it. Then for me when it comes to disciplines I tend to focus on the more defensive and utilitarian. Your attributes and skills should carry for the most parts, disciplines make sure it does. So fortitude to make sure when things get physical you can survive(even banes have less of an effect). Auspex so you can gather information and be aware of your surroundings. Being able to see the supernatural and understanding what you are dealing with can be both used offensively and defensively. My favorite maneuver using telepathy with presence to make sure people do what you want. Then last is presence. Its quiets and has multiple uses. Finally in V5 the negative emotion powers are useful(they were so hard to use in V20). Using awe to get things done, entrancement with summon for long game schemes, majesty for any conflict, and with the old combo disciplines buff your coterie with physical and mental advantages(Examples Esprit de Corps and Give em Hell).
Got into Wod Thanks to people like you, I wont deny I use you as my bedtime storyteller. Thank you for showing this wonderful world.
I can hope one day WoDE can become popular in Latinamerica, now that Warhammer is booming here I can tell its a matter of time.
in my decade long Sabbat Larp im running an Orbitus lineage Tzimize elder with a bunch of out of clan Animalism and its fun as hell. Cloak the gathering + horrid form + a gang of Szlacta dropping out of freaking nowhere is a hell of a shock for the average Cammie on the street. Animalism is really working for me in our larp system for simple scouting ability.
also, yeah, Dominate gets real nasty if you think about it for like 5 seconds
You got my like for the come fly with me tune. So great
Loving the out of ten rankings.
I personally never had much of an issue with Dementation. I used it on a stealthy Malkavian to wage psychological warfare on the enemy. Usually by intensifying arguements or heightening someone's paranoia.
In most of the Vampire games I've played, the players didn't seem to 'get it.' They ran around, gathering up material things like homes, cars, and an immense collection of weapons. Meanwhile, I was quietly (I also love the Nosferatu) spending xp on new Skills, Disciplines, Contacts, and my Haven. To me, true power is what you carry with you. Sure, I had several cars, but they all looked like crap. They ran well and had hidden surprises (like armor) but they looked terrible. However, I traded favors with other Clans to get new and powerful Disciplines. When the coup for the city began, I was the one who defended my Clan and the Prince from attack. The rest lost most of their fancy stuff, at least for a while. The following night, I was hale and hearty and on the prowl again.
.Obuscate is also my favorite disapline in VTM because it is more of a mental manipulation power than invisibility and I really like how you can obscure reality with it
I rate chimerstry as you're already under my genjutsu out of 10
Tbh i rate all 3 physical disciplines as necessery in V20. Potence, celerity and fortitude specifically buffs your base stats enough that you actually feel like a vampire instead of slightly more powerful human. Protean though is my favorite, non-basic discipline. Just 2 dots alone gives you access to aggravated damage at will, and 3rd will give you ability to take shelter anywhere on earth. Not to mention, they have some of my favorite elder powers. Flesh of Marble is the most powerful Lvl6 Combat power, if taken with high fort, that is going to force anyone who wish to attack you, into doing it with fire & magic or give up trying.
After protean, its all about what you want out of your character. Want social powers, get Presence or Dominate, want to get places you're not supposed to, get Obfuscate. Wanna be shadow monster, get Obtenebration. So long as you can protect yourself, rest is up to you.
Great video, some awesome resoning. Plus, your top choice is 💯 correct in my eyes.
Thank you kindly!
Protean, Obtenebration and Thaumaturgy are my top 3 disciplines, which makes sense since they are the iconic disciplines of my 3 favourite clans lol. I do like animalism, but if Im being honest with myself, I prefer playing City Gangrel so I can have obfuscate. I have however always thought that a more nature oriented variant of the Tremere could be cool, using Animalism and maybe being related to House Carna, that probably my love of witches speaking.
For me, Disciplines are part of what draw me to a particular clan. I'm a fleabag at heart and yes I main Fighter in D&D so I like the ones that can combine combative utility and or social benefits, but if you can pull that and heap a mak truck of flavoring on it then you have me sold. So big shock my #1 is Serpentis, I go back and forth on if I like the Setities or the Geovani (yes I will not look v5 in the face I was brought up on Revised edition and liked it so eat me) better. But they both have so much flavor pouring out of there ears anyone who can pull them off effectively will chew the sceneary like a package of big league chew.
Fortitude is THE best combat Discipline in V5, and im willing suffer my final death on this hill!
Lore, I hope you know that everytime you make a video, or I drop into the Discord, I end up wanting to play VTm.
I blame you for this, and thank you at the same time.
I have a spicy take Dementation should have been in V5 as its own discipline and should have worked more like VTRs nightmare.
Necromancy at 3. The ability to make magical items out wraiths by binding them into objects can be very customizable. find weakness, then craft wepon replicating weakness/10.
The discapline that the Baali antribru have that specificly fucks up DEMONS at 2. I have something just for you, all powerful satan wanabe/10.
Fortitude at 1. Not meeting final death is always great/10.
Ogham gets done so dirty in DAV20. It goes from "write a rune on your body to curse your enemy when they see it" to "ritually kill a human being who is important to your target, and they get cursed when they see the corpse"... Yeah, that's gonna work *great* on the prince.
Dementation I like in theory but the mechanics just suck. Thankfully Malkavians can have Dominate instead.
Fun video. I look forward to the one ranking all paths of blood magic; as well as the hour long video ranking every ritual ever published ever... should be interesting.
Being a fan of V5 I used to rate the disciplines analytically but after 4 years of V5 existence, I must say all of the disciplines in their own right are useful, fun, and intriguing, this is purely V5 but I find that fortitude, Celerity, and Potence are so much more interesting because it's not solely super-resistance, super-speed, and super-strength, they encompass more areas - Fortitude allowing Mental Resistance, Withstanding Torture etc.
So my conclusion from the V5 system is there is no bad discipline, they are all amazing in what they correspond to do and more, I have my personal favorites but do not think any one of the disciplines presented in V5 is bad in any area, even Lore as I'm personally a fan of Blood Sorcery being the overall name for the mash of the Banu and Tremere mastery of blood magic, Oblivion being the plane Necromancers summon spirits from and Lasombra actually manifest into reality around them, it explains where Lasombra got their obtenebration from. And on the subject of Dementation, I can see it being Dominate over Auspex, Dominate is Vampiric Mind Control, focusing on the Will and breaking it or replacing it with the user's own to get access to another's mind and do what the vampire will with it, it makes sense to me at-least that this would encompass actively slowly destroying the mind via a conversation, enforcing the Malkavian's will on another vampire and eroding the will of the target, making them in the end suffer a complete mental breakdown.
Although, I do find that the most weakest discipline in V5 is Obfuscate (While I understand it makes sense for the Ravnos to use Obfuscate as an extension of Chimerstry, I feel like Obfuscate has way too many powers mismatching too much of the vampire clans specialties into just Obfuscate, I'm also not a big fan of the rules written for Obfuscate but do still enjoy it and don't think it's necessary bad in any factor, V5 really improved the tools given for STs and Players to explore.
The problem with amalgamating Necromancy and Obtenebration isn't the fluff implicating the Lasombra's shadows come from Oblivion. You can easily add fluff like that without the mechanical/thematic weirdness that Oblivion (the discipline) creates.
@@realkosherpork9223 I wouldn't really imo consider it fluff, because V20 didn't really tell us what Lasombra were doing to control the shadows, but now it makes perfect sense that they're drawing the actual being of Oblivion into the darkness around them and using it almost like an extension of themselves and that's why the shadows tend to whisper or act on their own accord, whereas with Necromancy they're controlling specifically the denizens of Oblivion that being wraiths.
Obtenebration does exist same with Necromancy but they're collided into Oblivion, personally though I would advise against mismatching the actual power lines and ceremonies against the clan.
Mechanically I don't see anything wrong with Oblivion, the rules are more clear and I enjoy that this could effect your humanity. I personally enjoy the ceremonies for the Hecata and even the Lasombra powers.
^ Just my thoughts on the subject.
@@TheCourtsOfLove V20 implied it and V5 could've stated it without combining two signature disciplines.
A Lasombra who raised zombies and a Hecata who commands shadows make little sense, yet that is the implication of the new discipline.
Further complicating things, controlling wraiths and controlling Oblivion are two different things. Oblivion, by all accounts, is what destroys wraiths.
@@realkosherpork9223 I remember V20 implying Obtenebration was stuff to do with demons, it never gave us a solid answer and so many theories came up but as far as my knowledge goes, Demons and the Abyss were the most commonly used to explain what Lasombra were calling on, V5 gave us the definitive answer that it's Oblivion and the ShadowLands surrounding it.
And yes, I agree I wouldn't allow Lasombra to take Hecata specific powers, V5 Oblivion has laid out what is Lasombra and what is Hecata specifics, while there's no mechanic stopping mismatching, the ST can always decide to homebrew the rule.
Since the discipline revolves around the Shadowlands, Hecata focus on controlling the wraiths and that is Oblivion because they contribute, enslave to the wraiths destruction in the end, the Lasombra control parts of the Shadowlands via Oblivion and Manifest it in the darkness around them.
Oblivion is just one overall name for the discipline, Obtenebration and Necromancy is listed in the other names for it, what V5 has done is more made their origin come from the same place. It's like with Blood Sorcery, Blood Sorcery is the overall name for Thamaturgy and Quitas, combining them into the same origin of blood sorcery as both utilize the blood to perform magic.
These are just my thoughts on it, I understand if any wouldn't agree with it but for me it makes sense and is natural to incorporate into a new system, it also gives the benefit of not having a large number of disciplines.
@@TheCourtsOfLove If there are clearly Hecata and Lasombra -specific powers, they should be separate disciplines. Otherwise, the merger is confusing and nonsensical IMO.
Lore wise, binding a wraith's corpus still feels sufficiently different from manipulating oblivion. WoD's afterlife is fleshed out enough that you don't need to shoehorn all thing's death-related together.
The Baali often refer to a pit, but I don't believe that was ever directly tied to Obtenebration.
Very important question: who plays Kiasyd/Maeghar online? I'd love to watch
Caffeinated Conquests has a Kiasyd Anarch in a V20 Game
a Kiasyd NPC shows up towards the end of the court of cups chronicle. Unfortunately its right before the story ends so the character doesn't get fully developed. But Jasmin, the storyteller, does a good job of capturing how alien & outside kindred society they are.
@@LiquidFranz Sounds sick, do you remember the episode? Also, it's a sick name for the campaign. Is it good?
@@LoreByNightVtM thanks!
@@socio9807 I don't recall which episode. It's towards the last stretch of the chronicle. The players are mostly staff at Penny arcade. So it's a comedy themed chronicle. Imagine if acquistions incporated folks played V5.
Have you ever thought about doing a ranking on all the Paths of Thaumaturgy? Thaumaturgy has always been an all time favorite of mine with how versatile you could be
It was something I mentioned in the episode itself
@@LoreByNightVtM that is my bad for completely missing it, lovely video and look forward to more!
Obfuscation for all the reasons you listed.
Fortitude is literally *the* most powerful discipline in V5. Ranking it at the bottom is absolutely incomprehensible to me.
K
Allow me to propose a thought experiment. If all those vampires and other supernatural elements in this setting where real. If you (personally, not a character) had to be transformed in a vampire, but could somehow choose by which clan. In those circumstances, would you choose by the disciplines available? Which disciplines would you consider the best ones?
My impression is that physical disciplines are very nice and useful in the game, but mostly way less so in this hypothetical context. Celerity is still better than most, except protean. However, auspex and obfuscate (sorry, I only speak third edition) are way more desirable for most people, probably. Presence too.
In the end of day (night, actually) most of us would be prioritising NOT to enter in fights a lot more than we already do. Knowing that we are potentially eternal, aging do not brings decay. And our existence is all we have, it is not a game.
I also suspect that most of us would look the social dynamics and "internal culture" of each clan a lot more before make the choice. The vampiric powers would be a lot less important in 'first person' real life than they are in tabletop RPG.
What you think?
the best for me, Dominate, very very useful. next up Obfuscate, , Blood sorcery. Protean(Vicissitude)
A bit surprised to see Fortitude so low.
Well, and I am also not.
It is very boring. And I always felt it was very underwhelming in older edition... yes, it allowed to soak Aggravated damage, but it was a very poor defense against. Having 3 dices against someone with claw rolling up on your with 8 agg didn't do much at all.
In V5 tho, it is a powerhouse of a discipline and very much what the 'meta' of combat is build around. It's still boring... but it's sheer power makes it odds to see it ranked dead last.
In V5 you can argue it’s mechanically boring but thematically I think it’s insanely cool. You are *truly* an unstoppable force.
Picturing a Banu Haqim anointing and putting scorpion’s touch on their blade… and with toughness you can reduce both the damage of the weapon and the poison to basically just shrug it off.
Or when an ancilla or elder tries to dominate you, have the bonus dice of unswayable mind go “fuck your 4 dots in dominate”
… the mental image of Fortitude is what’s cool about it, to me.
@@bromora989 And don't forget Prowess from Pain. Just imagine how terrifying it would be fighting a elder Gangrel and the more damage you deal to them they become stronger and faster like some kind of vampire berserker.
Im new to VTM. Quick question, I know clans have three disciplines but wanted to know are they bound to those only? Or, for example, could a Ventrue manifest Obtenebration?
They would have to be taught it, which involves a little sip from the vampire in question and be taught how to use it. In this particular example, that would be very unlikely to happen
I guess this isn't a power ranking considering temporis is low on the list exactly cause it's broken
Honestly? If your Coterie is okay with you playing a non-combat, "utility" PC, I think playing the lone Thinblood within the Neonates and utilizing Alchemy is really powerful in V5.
In absolute terms, the Thinblood will never be the best in terms of raw number of dice rolled, due to having no Blood Potency. When optimized for combat, the best they can do is being a ghoul++. And starting the game, they are at a severe disadvantage in terms of Discipline dots, with a maximum of 1 vs 3 for a Fledgeling with the right Predator Type.
But as a lone Thinblood in a Kindred group, your job's to stay out of the fights, investigate in the daylight, and - most importantly - fill in all the gaps.
You can have one dot in any Discipline by feeding on the right Resonance. But even if you go the way of the non-Hunter (fun fact: many countries have national dishes made of animal blood, such as black pudding or blood sausages, so chances are you can buy such blood at the local butcher), you've still got Alchemy.
Whereas in the short term, your mastery of Disciplines will always be weaker than the others', and whereas you can never counterfeit level 5 powers, you have a few advantages.
1. You've got only one (at most two, with Discipline Affinity) Discipline to invest in, so you can focus on leveling it up more while loosing nothing in versatility.
2. Other Kindred only get one Power per Discipline level. Sometimes, they will pick some powers that they have no use for just because they want to progress in the Discipline. You have no such limitations, and are free to pick and choose.
3. No Blood Potency but still want to be powerful? You can add extra dice with a Laboratory or special ingredients! Sure, there's a cost, but play your cards right and it can be very powerful. Also, gathering ingredients or setting up a supply line are useful story hooks.
(Edit: forgot to mention that these added dice only affect Distillation rolls, your Discipline rolls will still suffer compared to someone with high Blood Potency. However, getting a large number of bonus dice to get 6+ successes on the Distillation roll will empower that Formula, which could give you a much needed edge.)
4. Foregoing any costs in terms of ingredients and research time (remember, we're playing the long game here), the Xp cost per power, after investment in the appropriate Alchemy level, is in fact lesser than the cost of the power itself, for powers of level 2 or more. The cost of a counterfeit formula is (original level of the power + 1) * 3. That is:
- 6 Xp for a level 1 power, so more than the base price of 5 Xp for an in-clan Discipline, but you can just get the power by drinking blood of the appropriate Resonance if needed
- 9 Xp for level 2 powers, cheaper than the base price of 10, if not by much
- 12 Xp vs 15 normally for level 3, 15 Xp vs 20 for level 4!
Mechanics aren't everything. What's most important is the story, and the mechanics should be in service of the story.
The point I'm trying to make is that given the right circumstances, and by playing the long game, a Thinblood in a group of Neonates is more than able to justify their existence, contributing significantly to the Coterie by their sheer versatility, and arguably, keeping up in terms of effectiveness even when their group is filled with diablerizing maniacs with high Blood Potency.
Just don't make them fight 😅
well Thaumaturgy and necromancy are in the top 3 so guess it's acceptable ;)
End of the day i love power paths for the flavor they can add to your characters. you want to play a tech focus character embraced by the Tremere, well instead of playing with your bloody food, take the path of technomancy, you were a wiccan than The Green Path is for you, and so on.
There's a reason Oblivion is honestly my favorite Discipline in V5 at the moment, like i HATE them just fusing Obtenebration and Necromancy sure but OPP took the time to give us two flushed out Disciplines that let's you get creative with your characters.
Autocorrect fucked up most of the video sections XD
we also call physical education P.E. in the states, how soulless do you think we are?
"elder powers are available to neonates in 5e" no. its just that what constitutes an "elder power" has changed to give players more flexibility.
That's like saying the world is not only getting hotter because of so-called "global warming", the weather is actually getting more extreme.
Great work. Just a heads up, us "Yanks" also have PE, physical education... we're usually just lazy and call it gym.
Fair
Are you still kicking around the idea of delving into Demon: the Fallen?
I am yes! 2023 will have me cover Demon: The Fallen lore
Awesome, can't wait! 😈🤘
In Florida my school called it personal fitness.
I got here before a *minute* passed-
🤣LOST IT AT BREAKING 2 !ONE OF MY FAV 80'S MOVIE LOL !
Good list
Great quality video has to be praised, for using V20(undead heart emoji) the praise should be extra loud! Also we demand to know the Ferret story!!!! For research purposes of course
Alas, it is not my story to tell, but the thrall of my partner's Tzimsice
well in my V5 games, Daemonion and Dark Thaumaturgy is merged with Obilivion. Daemonion is the third triat in Oblivion.
Haven't watched the vid yet but I'm putting Nagloper vicissitude in top 5.
WAS THAT A COLIN CAMEO
Yes :3
i never heared of argon before. where is it from?
Ogham. Anywhere that mentions the Lhiannan bloodline, such as V20 & V20 Dark Ages
@@LoreByNightVtM ah, nice! thank you for clarification
No problem!
For April fool's, please rank cat pictures.
P.E. is what Yanks call it too
Great video 😊
I don't understand why anyone plays V5. It's garbage. Play V20 instead.
We all know V5 sucks. Don't lie
You don't speak for every VtM fan
@@LoreByNightVtM No of course not but I can bet that more hate V5 than others. Just look at DnD 3.5 vs DnD 4th E.
That I can agree on
@@LoreByNightVtM I may like a lot of V5 retcons and bullshit but I would never put down someone who likes it. I mean even you have to dislike some of V5s stuff. Iove V20 but I even know its not perfect and there are others who don't like it or some of it or all of it.
dislike**