I can't believe my sponsor said this... I have to prove them wrong!
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- I received an email from a sponsor that was SO irresponsibly incorrect that I HAD to address it...
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I feel sorry for the trainee of the company who responded to Jay's request. 🤣
Exactly
I work for a global leader in Tech and we had people working for us making bullshit statements which takes us senior engineers month to clean up. It comes down to one thing... you get what you pay for. If you outsource your support you may get that kind of "Staff"
@@NapFloridianyou also forget humans make mistakes
@r3mus47 It's always a mistake to yap about matter you're not fully familiar with. Marketing people even do it for a living. It doesn't happen often that you're publicly called out for it.
@@stephenlamley541 nah fr tho
I would take Jayz words for granted a thousand times before any from a computer "company". 😊
I hate to be that guy ,but "lets test the hypothesis" not the theory. Theory is something already proven. I am on Jays side of course but we talk about science,so .... Hypothesis. 😊
@@blackeyeoleTheories haven't been proven, that's why they're still theories
This is a common misconception, but in simple terms: a hypothesis is developed before research, whilst a theory is substantiated by data but is still not considered fact or a proven phenomenon. The reason for which is because a number of conflicting theories can be substantiated by data at any one time. A common example that I myself as a biologist refer back to is the concept of evolution and conflicting social-darwinistic vs neo-darwinistic theories
@@obscuretenet Evolution is a theory though??? It has not been proven. (In fact there's much more proof against evolution than for it, but we don't talk about that.)
@@jamesjoslin1737 well the theory of relativity is proven . That is a science community issue. Many of them using the term theory as all we think of it ,but in reality a theory in science terminology is something that is proven by data . I am quoting here "In everyday use, the word "theory" often means an untested hunch, or a guess without supporting evidence.
But for scientists, a theory has nearly the opposite meaning. A theory is a well-substantiated explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can incorporate laws, hypotheses and facts. "
@@obscuretenetgravity isnt a theory😂 that's what it is called that holds you down to said furface. Some planets have more gravity than outhers where some have much less. Its definitely not your mom or dad that keeping grounded to tge ground and preventing you from floating off when you jump 😂 what prevents that is the ammount of gravity.
It's like watching a scientist destroy a flat earther :D
Totally agree with the conclusion. I just purchased the new Thermaltake CTE750 Air to replace a Thermaltake Tower 500. This is a vertical motherboard mount design similar to some of the old Silverstone cases like the Temjin. The CTE can mount fans on the front, back, top and bottom, so of course that's exactly what I did. My AIO radiator is vertical mount by the motherboard and set to exhaust. I have 3 Phanteks 140mm fans at the front tied to the CPU temp with fan control and also linked to the radiator fans. After balancing the system I can run Cinebench on a full test cycle with my i7 13700KF maxing out at 94degrees C with no thermal throttling at all. The overall config is rear intake at max 30% speed, bottom intake at max 50%, front intake at max 75%, top (twin Thermaltake 140mm) extract at max 85% and radiator fans extract at max 70% fan speed.
For heat exchange purposes, 10-20% higher exhaust air volume is better than equal intake and exhaust.
Also in regards to the top radiator...heat rises...Interestingly I have more of a concern of the cooling loop going from the GPU to the CPU BEFORE going through one of the Radiators, if you could loop through the GPU and into a Rad and then Rad to CPU then to second Rad I believe your temps will drop. Either way great test
I like balanced airflow also, leaning on the side of positive pressure. I have the Lian Li 011 Dynamic and have the 3 bottom fans as intake and side 3 fans as intake all running at a lower speed than the 3 fan rad on the top as exhaust. Having the 6 fans at lower speed pushing air in and only 3 fans exhausting seems to get perty close to the middle on the side of still being slightly positive pressure. In the past having negative pressure was a mess when it came to clean-up with dust collecting in every usb port and hole and crack the air could find. So I do like the benefit of positive pressure, just balanced air flow seems to cool better.
[or maybe it don't and is all in my head, lol]
I think the decision should be primarily based on the specific system configuration. My case has a lot of passive ventilation, and removable filters for five of the six fan positions. So I run five intake, including those across my rad, and one exhaust. There's more than enough passive ventilation to not restrict exhaust, and I'm significantly reducing the influx of dust and hair.
Image how much heat is required from an air station to solder an SMD chip, and they work fine afterwards. How can some warm air kill components
Though a late comment, I think it was just a legal comment.
They probably had someone writing with not so much technical knowledge, he heard that (and I would've thought the same to be honest) and if you think about it:
They're in the US. Where they can get sued for even obvious stuff, that the customer did wrong, if the manufacturer didn't point it out, they get sued by the customer, probably with success.
Without testing saying "That won't damage your PC" is a high risk from a legal point of view. Saying "We tested it and it won't damage your PC" is a risk either because if it does damage to the PC, the customer still could sue and incur high costs, even if they would win in the end, it is not worth it.
"We did test it and it will damage your PC" is the most safe, legal statement they could make, even if it is scientifically wrong. A customer can't sue you (I think), if you issue an overcautious statement.
... Didn't Jay just prove their point, that the internal case temps were 4C cooler with their configuration than Jay's?
The CPU and GPU was adequately cooled in both configurations, but any other component in the case would be dealing with a hotter temperatures with Jay's configuration? Probably won't kill any component in the short term, but over the 3 or 4 years that allot of people keep their PCs for it would likely cause a higher failure towards the end of life times.
6.4C over ambient for an Aussie summer at 30C to 40C I would be worried for my motherboard. CPU and GPU tend to be more forgiving to temps compared with power delivery caps.
Jay: sends question
PR guy: yo Tech guy, i need a proffesional statement on this
Tech guy: i mean, it'll prolly put heat in that bitch
PR guy: edits it and exagerates
Jay: gets the PR edit
Its a corporate thing..
PS: I have a similar setup and it works great. 3 intake fans on the side via gpu aio, 3 intake fans below chassy drawing cold from bottom, 2 exhaust bigger fans on top cpu aio. It works great tbh.
Your real world example beats assumptions of others.
1) For the CPU or GPU at 60C to be cooled it requires the liquid to be much cooler (a delta), for the radiator to work the fin temp will be higher than the exhaust temp. A 75C CPU/GPU will not mean the water & radiator exhaust will be close to 70C. It would be interesting to know the water temp just before the CPU/GPU -vs- just after.
2) A volume of air changing 1C will be equivalent energy change of a much smaller volume of water by 1C. When increasing the radiator area or water/air volume, a smaller temp delta is needed for the same heat transfer.
3) A larger internal temp (smaller delta to components) but a larger volume of air being pushed through (small positive instead of small negative pressure) combined with lower loop temp because it's using colder air to cool the loop means the air forced in via the radiator is not as bad as the radiator exhaust temp when rad is set to exhaust. Having large positive or large negative pressures reduce airflow from balanced air flow config it takes fans extra effort to create/fight that pressure difference. Theoretically, a negative internal pressure will mean the volume of air moved will be slightly less dense & thus hold less heat per cubic m (in practice the pressure difference is probably not significant enough). You saw a small disadvantage in case temp but a large benefit to CPU/GPU temp as a good trade.
4) How much heat does the tubes of water radiate inside the case after the CPU/GPU or absorbs from internal case temp before reaching CPU/GPU (probably too small to measure accurately, eg.
Theo nly truth I can see to their claims is IF and thats a BIG if, you happen to starve the VRM's for any and all airflow. Some of the lower end motherboards VRM temps are astronomical compared to the higher end ones. If you put a R9//i9 in a 550 or whatever.. Plenty of people did tests on this and said "Do not buy these mobos" IF they planned on using these in this configuration, it would actually hurt the motherboard... but they would still be wrong. Because some airflow is better than none.
I wanna see a video on adding more fans to rad and lowering temps
I seen one years ago, he added so many fans to the rad, the temps were lower than room temp
Can someone verify the Morse code? It could be a secret message from Jay
It's about air flow. Even warm air will cool hot components.
When it comes to integrity vs. pleasing sponsors, Jay has 0 chill, and I seriously respect that.
meh just use liquid metal on the components if temps matter that much for you🤣🤣
@@SaraMorgan-ym6ue
M'kay. So you want to cover your RAM in Conductonaut or what? The VRM too?
17:19
What Jay has actually proved is in this configuration having fans as intake keeps the motherboard and internal components that aren't actively cooled by the loop, cooler.
He proved the opossite. The intermal case temperature is hotter therefore the components not cooled by the water are hotter because the delta between the competent and the internal would be less and therefore less heat can be trsnsferred.
The fact that Jay was ready to accept he was wrong, if the test would have showed otherwise, shows his confidence. Thank you for honest reviews and not being afraid to push sponsors.
or he record the test first then the intro (?)
@@KcinicKGX I think he has done this long enough that he knew exactly what the result would be. He did the video because he felt someone treated him like an idiot. Don't blame him
I love how Jay isn’t afraid to put it straight. It doesn’t matter who you are, or how much money/product a company is giving him. He’s not afraid to call someone out. He truly is for the people. Love ya man!
@@IkeBroflovski-y4eand yet this whole video that generated clicks for him also helps us while calling out how a manufacturer was/is wrong.
@@IkeBroflovski-y4e who hurt you?
Let’s just say this, origin PCs a rip off…. And on the component list of the system jay was testing was a Samsung 870. 2tb QVO ssd…. Do you know how slow a qlc ssd gets after sac cache is spent? 5mb writes….. a origin pc is 4-5 grand, they could have filled all nvme slots with good quality nvme drives if they cared….
@@wiseanime2875if you haven't seen the writing on the way with Jay I don't think there is any saving you you are right where you belong or over on LTT he's just as bad
Missed the 4060 videos huh?
Jay's version of morse code sounds a lot like mario when he grabs the star power up.
THATS What it was!
How else would a gamer do morse code?
@@nunya3163 UP UP DOWN DOWN LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT B A
is also an acceptable answer
@@ilovefunnyamv2ndyou forgot START at the end
So glad to see Jay agrees to giving his team more space, they're such a good team and offer the same quality of work as Jay gives. ❤
Your ability to give such precise information and be funny while doing it never ceases to amaze me lol
yea Jayz the King of PC!
Something Jay didn't touch on is how much more the airflow increased on the exhaust in the "balanced" config by not having the fans fight so much static pressure.
In the first test airflow was only 12CFM, and it over doubled to 25cfm once the fans were helping each other instead of fighting each other.
This likely also reduced noise by reducing turbulence caused by said fans fighting each other.
And the bestest part is dumping warm air into the case causes it to absorb any moisture brought inside through any way other than through radiator. Another big bonus of the JTC's approach...
or.... his new intake fans were too powerful / he overshot when compensating for the resistance caused by the disabled stock fans.
If he's neither using the same fans nor doing a noise-normalized trial it's hard to tell if his results are just from more RPM, though I get it that in this scenario it'd be difficult to control for those things.
@@Wolf480pl nah this makes perfect sence.
lets refer to air with any form on heat in it as dirty air. what they are saying is pushing dirty air from the radiator in to the system is not good, so only exhausts....problem with that is the only place to grab air is on the opposite sides of the case (back and bottom) so the air gets pulled over warm components creating dirty air rather then fresh air. the benefit is the ambient air in the case is lower but the radiators get only dirty air so the true hot heads in the system (CPU and GPU) are getting cooled with dirty air. apart from that the fan's are all pulling on each other creating resistance/load for each other they are not fed any air they all have to feed themselves from where ever they can pull it.
the...optimal approach (yes I'm helle biased this default loadout is dumb) is to feed fresh air in to the radiators (those cool the water which cool the cpu/gpu which are the most temperature sensitive components) also by adding an actual intake forcing air in to the case the exhausts's will actually be fed air and there for run faster/move more air. wile this air (if inake is only through a radiator) might be dirty because it is fed it moves through the system much faster (not just by RPM but by less resistence/less canibalism by other exhausts) getting deeper in components and carrying even more heat away from the non directly cooled components.
I'm fairly certain due to the canibalism going on in this system he could have run his intake's at LOW and the CFM on the exhaust would have still seen a big increase...perfect world would probably be utilize the front and side as intake and the top as exhaust creating positive pressure inside the system (pushing air out of any openings as opposed to sucking unfiltered dusty air through them) feeding the exhaust with both dirty and fresh air having the best of both worlds with quite literally none of the con's...other then it's really really really efficient at pushing the air out of the case (and in to your room)
@@anub1s15
> lets refer to air with any form on heat in it as dirty air
Strictly speaking, that'd make all air dirty, unless its temperature is 0 Kelvins, which is too cold for any human, computer, or fan to function in.
I get that this isn't what you meant, you just meant "air hotter than ambient" but the key here is that this isn't a binary thing. How hot would air need to be to be considered "dirty"? 1 degree over ambient? 5? 10?
An ideal setup would be to hang your radiators outside the case in such a way that the air flowing through them never enters the case. And then have separate case fans blowing into the case to cool the VRM and all the other misc components that don't have a water block. It'd be kinda impractical tho.
Aside from that, even with a bad airflow setup you can just crank the RPM up, which will usually result in more cfm and lower temps - possibly lower than with a better setup - at the cost of noise.
It intuitively makes sense that Jay's balanced setup would be more effective - have higher cfm because fans aren't fighting, lower water temps because rads get fresh air, and higher interior (and VRM) temps because the interior is downstream of rads - all at similar or lower noise level. But that's not what he demonstrated in the experiment. He only demonstrated that with enough RPM he's getting better temps.
To sum up:
- Jay's setup makes sense, intuitively it should be more efficient
- he proved this setup can get lower temps with enough rpm
- almost every setup, no matter how good or bad, can get lower temps with enough rpm
- he didn't actually prove that his setup can get lower temps with same/lower rpm or noise
- it probably can but there isn't clear evidence
@@Wolf480pl not that hard litterally any air before passing over a heatsource in your PC is about as clean as you can get it what is air with all energy stripped from it in a scientific book is not what is in my room............
any air that has passed over a heatsource and in therefore above ambient is "dirty" can't believe that's a hard concept but here we are.
really not that hard unless you make it out to be hard to grasp.
and also if 3 fans in the correct spot at "high RPM" can create a Massive temp drop in cpu/gpu and RAM!!!! (note the high RPM fan's are BESIDE the RAM not aimed at it and it is outside of the water loop, the ram temp is pure increased flowthrough) is that alone not indication that the original setup is crap?
you either understand what's happening here and know the RPM has actually less to do with it then you seem to make it out or you don't i guess.
also still doesn't address the end user having to deal with a setup that literally pulls dust in to the system through any hole or crack lacking a filter (path of least obstruction always wins).
I love the way you hold sponsors accountable, it's extremely refreshing and gives your content a credibility that most lack.
Only two min into the video and I want to preface this as an HVAC technician. Condensers pull air in thru the coil to cool the coil then exhaust thru the top. Your evaporator inside, pulls air thru the evap to condition the air then distributes it through the building or home.
I’m with you Jay, always pull fresh air in thru radiator then exhaust out back or where rad isn’t. The air in your home will always be cooler than the air inside the case therefore cooling your component better. And as long as your exhausting properly, you’ll be fine. And if anything, using the air inside the PC is hotter which is I’ll not cool your component as well therefore killing the component sooner.
Bottom line, always pull fresh air from the room thru the rad and exhaust somewhere else. I’m with Jay on this.
I trust hvac tech the most on this one jay
Do you have an opinion on whether the fans should push versus pull through the radiator, or does that not matter? My case is different from Jay's, looks like his outside air is pushing thru, mine has to pull thru
Mostly agree but my air handler pulls return air from the house and blows through the evaporator. It does not pull air through the evaporator. I imagine it would be odd for the blower fan to be positioned where it has to pull air through the evaporator coil. I guess it could happen though.
@@ditto_75 some big AC units do have the rads in a V, and the fans pull the air out the middle of the V... I don't really see them pushing down. (I could be wrong, as I am not HVAC tech... ).
For a case, I prefer as many, or more intake fans to exhaust fans at any time, anyways. My case used an Lian Li O11d XL, with fans pulling from the bottom rad cooler outside air, and pushing into the top rad to exhaust out. Side fans pull in fresh air, and back pushes out. It does mean I have 2 more fans as intake to the exhaust...
Yep, same with cars, they pull fresh air through the radiator with either a push or pull fan. If you were parked, with the engine running, and your fan was set to exhaust, your engine would boil over in under an hour. Because your just pushing hot air into your radiator.
Jay went the extra mile to tell them “I told you so” 😂😂 love it.
THAT COMMENT WAS GOLD. 😂😂😂👏👏👏👏
I don't think I've seen you use one, but adding a smoke source to your tests can help illustrate the "air may be splashing around" thought you had. I use them to check for air flow leaks, and they're quite effective and easy to use. Just my 2 cents :)
Jay did when he was showing fan configuration in a recent video, but he used Incense (same kind of effect)
@@EARTHROMR I must have missed that one, but I wouldn't use incense just because of particulates in the smoke. I know, it's a very small amount, but they can still get in the system.... Would still like to see him use a real smoke source though.
@@That_guy_Pipall smoke has particles in it, that's what smoke is a cloud of floating particles.different smoke sources would probably have a difference in how much these particles are deposited though.
Either way blowing a few small puffs of smoke trough a PC won't hurt it.
It's interesting how the tech community goes to clear up things with their sponsors. I don't know what happened but I'm glad this is happening. (maybe it's also just me lol)
Shoutout for Jay and all the rest of the tech channels out there doing this!
I saw a similar video from Jay a few weeks ago about fan airflow, which made me decide to change my setup (O11D-XL) from top-rad to side-rad. I currently have 9 fans as intake (rad has 6 in push-pull) and 4 as exhaust to make a positive pressure setup (I have 4 huskies, dust is a thing in my home) and I'll be a monkey's uncle, Jay was right. My temps while gaming decreased by a minimum of 5c. CPU and GPU would hover around 68-70c before, now they sit comfortable around 60-62 under the same gaming load.
You're awesome, Jay!
Nice one Jay. Personally I am for positive pressure as that ensures that you have less dust in the system.
Won't you have the same dust, just not in crooks and crannies?
@@bootchoo96Not necessarily. It depends on how or if your intake air is filtered. A good dust filter with appropriate static pressure fans to overcome the extra resistance should be relatively dust free.
And it's pretty easy to clean most filters compared to vacuuming a case.
@@drahkas8526 I literally forgot about filters, my argument is invalid lol
Says, who? It's up in the air (pun not intended). Always aiming for the neutral zone of Intake=Exhaust pressure, is advisable and just seems more logical.
So No, not especially.
As am I. 6 months in and still no considerable dust build up. Also running 6 intake fans. 3 are on the radiator and my exhaust is a Noctual industrial 3000rpm fan and it kicks ass. Never have seen my ram go over 49c and that's with their 7200xmp profile
The difference in dust accumulation is enough for me to always use positive pressure, even if it means dealing with higher temperatures. I don't notice a difference in temps, but the dust difference has been tested and proven over the years, both through multiple personal tests and by multiple reviewers.
This comment comes from someone who has been in PCs alot
@@joshuaclark3848 No, it comes from someone with a dusty home. I let me robot vacuum run once a day. When I clean my PC after around 3-4 months there are only some tiny particles in the rads. The difference in the dust build up by negative or positive pressure doesn't really matter if you keep your home clean.
I think the most fair way to test it would have been to unplug the stock fans for both tests, then flip the new fans back and forth and use them the whole time.
Yooo nice profile picture
@@Boblo Lmao yours is great too
Jay, thank you for being a champion of the commonfolk to stand up to companies with their BS practices and proving them wrong.
I wouldn't call it a BS practice, they just were wrong in their supposition. All intake or all outtake is likely going to be wrong. For instance with all forced air outtake you'd have to have a lot of passive intake area to make up for it so it's better to have some forced air intake to match your forced air outtake
Would be interesting to see what effect an additional rear exhaust fan would have.
I'm with you on this. If you've got cooler air pushing into the system it's going to work more efficiently at cooling the loop which will keep the primary system components cooler, and the internal temperature of the chassis will stay lower, while the loop won't significantly heat the chassis because it will stay cooler. It's likely only a matter of degrees though. The only problem you might run into is if Ambient is high, but that's going to be a problem anyway
My computer guy (an electrical engineer from China and has owned his own pc store here in Canada for 20 years) put the fans inward as you recommend. I thought he messed up because I automatically thought hot air out. He says the same thing. You prefer as much fresh air inside as possible. Your video that explains air flow is fantastic. I suggest anyone who has not seen it, to do so.
I love this kind of stuff. I mean testing if the marketing BS is actually true. 😂👍👍
Wasn't this tested a decade ago by Linus & Luke in all the different in/out fan configurations?
If I remember correctly, it was nominal differences between various configurations, just a degree or two.
It was more important to have more intake fans to reduce dust buildup coming in from the cracks.
Yeah, i remember watching that exact video. You are right, the conclusion was to run a somewhat positive pressure as to keep dust out.
That was to test dust build up. This is about temperatures inside the case. The claim Jay defeated is that the inside of the case would be too hot.
@@TheDJ3520 but they also monitored temps.
@@blodhthringa They had an air cooled system. The temps won't be affected to the same degree as a water cooled system, unless somehow the coolers were directly against intake or exhaust fans, like a radiator is.
Whoever from Origin sent that message has literally never touched a computer in their entire life. I guarantee it.
lmao getting that Verge PC build vibes 😂"...Intel CPU, yes we've got it!"
So, Im not trying to defend Origin or anything, I think they were 100% giving BS responses, but this test is just completely inconclusive because Jay was using different fans for the tests.
I checked what fans the PC was using (Corsair iCUE QL120 RGB 120mm) and they run at 1500 rpm with a CFM of 41.8. While the fans that Jay used (UNI FAN P28) run at 2200 rpm with a CFM of 77.8 at medium speed.
Those are two VERY different fans, where the Lian Li fans are obviously way more powerful even at medium speed, so of course Jay is going to get better results while using them even with them having to push through the original fans. I get he doesn't want to tear down the whole loop to test this one obviously BS claim, but there's nothing really scientific about this test when hes changing two variables in between tests.
so whats 77.8 minus the spin of the QLs working against the uni fans? :D
I mean, Look at ANY internal combustion auto setup. Where are the Radiators? Which way is the AIR flowing? Hmm? Sidenote: ever hear of a "Cold-Air-Intake" on a car? where is the start of the intake situated? NOT IN THE ENGINE BAY!!
I agree with you on the reason your Meter went "Beep-Beep-de-BEEP!" Be honest, cause I can spot a crappy answer real quick. "Don't Bullshit a Bullshitter." End Of Lesson.
Thank you for this! I can't tell you how many arguments I've had with people on Reddit about this when I've suggested mounting fans as INTAKE on the radiator. Fact is that pulling cooler ambient air into the radiator is more efficient then exhausting heat out. Even in Corsair' s AIO manuals recommend mounting fans as intake. And people who argued with me have said the same thing that was said to you, about "dumping heat into the system". The reality is, that a rear exhaust fan will pull heat out coming from the rad, and additionally, positive pressure is not static, so it will push air and heat out of the case. Whereas negative pressure creates a vacuum that sucks in air (and dust) into the case through any vent and crack of the case, essentially the opposite of what positive pressure will do.
And you even alluded to it, but negative pressure could/would in some/most cases even pull in the expelled warm air back into the case, thus making it worse.
yea, 99.9% of the heat produced is gonna be going to the rads. barely any comes off the ram or chips on the motherboard. I guess they are kinda right if only your cpu/gpu is watercooled. Either way it probably makes only a degree or two of difference
With liquid cooling (even with manually cutting my own tubes years ago for fitting) for the last 25 years or so, I have always had an intake fan to go with the exhaust fans for exactly the reason Jay does here: Physics. It's nice to use tools to measure and prove it, so great job on that, Jay.
Personally I would have done the temps in Kelvin, just to bug Steve at Gamers Nexus as I believe he likes to see temp numbers in that format. But I greatly appreciate the work you do in educating us the masses. Have fun at LTX 2023.
Steve's issue with temp numbers isn't specifically Kelvin, it's when vendors try to make percentage claims in regards to temperatures in C or F.
When you use a measurement with an arbitrary 0-point and scale like Fahrenheit or Celsius, you can't use a percentage reference number. "Temps reduced from 20'c to 10'c" is not really a 50% improvement. Just changing your scale to F it make that 68 to 50, a 26% improvement. If you want to use a pure scaling percentile for temps, you have to use Kelvin since it has a true 0 base point on the scale. So anytime you see someone use a "%" statement in regards to temperature, your BS meter should be going hard.
@@blackraenAnd while Steve's right, that's one of his more pedantic rants. Celsius is the measurement standard adopted by the PC community. If Steve only cares about the actual difference in thermal energy present in a PC component when comparing a new cooling solution to an old one, then I think he's one of the few who do. The vast majority of people care about what numbers HWMonitor reports.
@@dembro27 Lol you obviously didn't read or understand. Using Celsius to talk about temperatures is fine, Steve does that, everyone does that. Use HWMon or whatever.
The problem is when marketing people try to use 'percentage difference' claims for temperatures. Like I explained, you cannot use %+/- statements with Celsius or Fahrenheit, that's not how it works.
@@blackraen Let me explain myself again since I "obviously didn't read or understand".
1) Celsius is the conventional standard when discussing PC temperatures.
2) Celsius is measured in degrees, expressed as a number.
3) Numbers can be compared against each other in the form of percentages.
4) 20°C to 10°C is a 50% reduction.
No, that's not a 50% reduction in the actual thermal energy present in the PC component you're measuring. But it's a 50% reduction in the thing that actually matters to most people: what they see in HWMonitor. Like most marketing, it's a bit misleading, yes, but not something that should be a cause for concern IMO. What's much more important is testing that extraordinary claim of a 10°C drop.
@@dembro27 The problem is how misleading the marketing is. Percentages mean nothing when it comes to coolers. A 100W cooler might be "154% better", but it's still going to thermal throttle any mid-high-end CPU.
Can we just wait a Comment from Origin explaining them self how Scientifically they can demonstrate intake Air can damage a CPU, Ram or GPU capable of 80+ Degrees? xD am FULLY Interested
@Origin PLEASE Send a VIDEO!! for SCIENCE!!!!
Love it - I always try to do neutral pressure. It would of been interesting to see origins temperatures with the fan filter on as delivered and with the case side on (restricting the exhaust even more). Love the videos Jay
I would have liked to see what the temperature changes would be if you had just added the single intake fan to the back of the case.
This is the way
If you aren't going to remove the internal fans to give your other fans best airflow, you should mount the other fans before you do the 'first test' so the default fans are similarly challenged.
My 2 rads are mounted on the back outside of my custom standing acrylic tube case. Getting rid of these 2 issues of a in or out. With a 10" exhaust fan at the top as a chimney stye free flow open bottom. 😉👍👍
I just gave my friend my “old” computer (R9 5950X with an MSI Suprim X 3090 Ti) in an O11 XL with 6 fans exhaust and 3 intake. It was setup that way because I set the fans on the bottom rad backwards and just left it. So top and bottom exhaust and side intake. The only complaint I heard from him about temperatures is he doesn’t need an extra space heater in his room during the winter.
I love these vidoes... debunk and preserve the ego haha. No, seriously, videos like this is why I trust you all at JTC. Even sponsors aren't going to get it easy and will have the same treatment as everyone else. You guys rock ❤
In today's days a funny but always professional youtuber is somehow hard to find, and Jayz never fails to give us precise and trustworthy information while keeping us smiling, thanks for your videos Jayz
Also, that cpu runs cooler than some houses in the world rn, we need to watercool the world lmao
Before killing me, I meant GPU not CPU ok?
@@ninja47yt64 In my system, my cpu raises the coolant temp more than my GPU, even under load...
That's why I said before killing me I meant GPU not CPU
How has Origin operated this long thinking that having intake fans would make products more prone to failure? At the prices they charge, this level of ignorance is kinda fucking shocking
im only at min 4 but im already like: HUH? only exhaust? WHERE DO THEY THINK THE AIR COMES FROM???? are they trying to pull a vacuuim in the case?
I've done push/pull fan configurations on my builds for 20 years. Never had a component heat issue and have similar results as yourself with passive components. Great work Jay!
Hi, if you don't mind me asking, do you have any opinion on whether it matters to have fans inside vs outside the case? Asking because my case has a dust cover that forces the fans inside due to clearance, so I would be pulling fresh air thru the rad in to the case (this is my first build and first AIO and I've been exhausting out the top by pushing the warm case air thru the rad)
i love when Jay makes a video out of spite lol
ego
You should always run a positive pressure when possible, purely for dust filtering.
Balanced is best, leaning slightly towards positive
Positive pressure used to be a big deal when we had floppy drives and optical drives that didn't like dust. Not really a big deal now. The biggest problem I see these days is intakes on the bottom of the case that get plugged up fast even in really clean houses.
It blows my mind that we have these high end custom water cooled PC builders that don't include fluid temperature sensors. From my experience one of those sensors should be a requirement, since it is the only way to properly regulate your fan curve. As long as you have proper contact on your blocks, and sufficient radiators/fans, the actual temperature of your CPU and GPU don't matter. Spikes in CPU/GPU temperature can still happen, and your fans would get really annoying just ramping up and down constantly, meanwhile fluid temperature will be a lot more consistent, and as long as you control that properly, you will cool your components properly.
its better to have slight positive pressure than it is to have negative pressure because of dust accumulation over time. I've learned this from your older vids and linus/lukes fan configuration experiment.
they basically laid the contents of your next video right into the palm of your hands. thing with feeling like someone is "ego tripping" is that I have always thought that there was a thin line between "ego" and "confidence". if someone sees a confident person they just say "check your fkn ego mayne", but in reality it is perfectly ok to flex on your capabilities you have retained over the course of your life, ESPECIALLY when you have proven these things to us here on youtube for as long as i can remember, as well as proven it to yourself. easy win and i'm glad you guys put up a video so fast in response!
There is one major flaw/problem with your Video Jay: there is this unknown variable of the fans. IF you would have testet it both ways with the outside fans and just switched them around, it would be ok, or if you used the exact same fans on the outside as well. BUT change of fans can perfectly explain the difference in temps you get in the video and that is big problem when doing such things, cause now you basically dont know if your conclusions are right, or simply just caused by "beefier" fans.(that beeing sad, i still think your conclusion is the right one, but just wanted to mention some attack points that could come as a result from the company).
I will never understand the mentality of doubling down on stupidity instead of just admitting you're wrong to begin with. It really says something about your ego if you're incapable of admitting you fucked up, but even worse double down on defending your fuck up in something that's so easily debunked.
This shit made me lose ANY respect for Origin PC when I had so little to begin with due to their laughable pricing that makes Nvidia pricing look reasonable.
Wait on minute youve have been water cooling for 25 years so you started on Pentium 1/amd athlon xp in 1998 ive had a pc since 1993 an the first time i knew about commercial water cooling was in the early 2000s i think your dates are a bit off there buddy @jtc
I have a system setup with 4 140mm intakes and 2 120mm exhaust doing push/pull on an AiO. I tried other configs but this works best for my case.
I'm surprised you didn't mention cars. 😄99% of them have the radiator dumping heat into the engine bay itself, but intaking cool air has a much higher effect on cooling, than the warmer exhaust air touching the block.
While this test was "science"... it wasn't. You didn't normalize the fan flow on the front radiator. You should have bit the bullet and swapped the factory fans to intake to get the most accurate comparison.
That said, intuition says you're still right, as all in or all out means the fans are constantly fighting each other.
And all out had better have some seriously good filtration in high dust environments.
How is this good testing? You aren’t using the same fans! The temps may only be lower because you’re running higher rpm fans with different static profiles. I understand it would have been a pia to turn the fans around, but that’s the only way to really test.
should have tested it *"stock"* with your fans attached to the side but turned off, and use the same fans they did, would have been *100% apple to apple testing. *
In their view, all air cooled 4090s are killing all other components since all that heat goes first through them before it is exhausted, which is of course false.
This is 2023. Science is opinion that may be influenced by facts. You got it backwards. 😂
Jay, you really need to learn Morris Code. Also, how could you say that about my mother in Morris Code. She was a great woman who's no longer with us.
test is faulted from start.. first off you used different fans from what was installed, second it that you should have reversed flow from factory fans to do test, third case panel was removed which in cases does restrict airflow, forth the wires touching the tubes will be enough to heat the surrounding area of the probes
I have started the vid several times but was not able to find out what this is about and what is the claim besides someone saying something would be the best... I still have no idea.
Thanks for the effort anyway and see you in the next one 🤣
Jay, you are correct and now you have proven that. I knew what the results would say because we figured this out 20 years ago when we started building in chassis that had more then 1 fan.. "SPONSOR" when you have a new idea always ask yourself "why haven't anyone done this before" because most of the time they have and it didn't work any better!!
if that BS is true,
I think all cars manufacturer also going to swap radiator on the top or side or back of the trunk :D
we are out here talking about 2 c and fans wrong and i cant even buy fans lol i can only dream about a pc like that wouldnt care about 2 c lol
if 30 C is enough then its probably sarcastically insignificant to non existent.
2:55 This just reeks of them trying to 'think up a problem' rather than using scientific data and material data
lol 30 c kill a component. . . human body temp is 36.6 and I fell fine. . .
I am most impressed that a purely negative pressure system results in only 5c temperature cost
Thermodynamics isn't magic. You're managing the same amount of waste heat either way. Would you rather add 5C to your peripheral internal components which are probably sitting at around 45C, or would you rather add 5C to your most expensive components (GPU, CPU) which are probably sitting at 60C?
It's a no-brainer. Rad as intake any day all day.
Why lower the temperature for the liquid cooled components if they are fine?
It was not a problem with the first configuration, the liquid cooled components was fine and the air cooled components did run cooler with the first configuration. Jay messed up this whole thing, don't know what he was thinking but I think he need some coffee to smarten up a bit!
I dont think I've ever heard a single competent person say intakes on a radiator are bad.
You need a polarizer filter on your camera to get rid of the reflection on the glass. 👍
Fluke thermometer sales just went uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuppppppppppppp! 😁
Sorry Jay this will be an unpopular opinion, but I still have to kind of agree with Origin, and you didn't actually test their concerns. Try testing temperatures of passively cooled components like VRM, SSD, RAM, Chipset. Those are the items they are worried about getting cooked in the long-term. The CPU and GPU temps were excellent with all fan scenarios. Yes a little better with yours, but not in a way that makes any difference to performance. If it were me though, I'd still have all radiators exhaust, but also have at least some intake fans somewhere in the case. In this case though, pretty much every place there could be a fan has a radiator, so they have to exhaust.
Hey, it doesn't have to. The Email states all the proof. If you know anything, Origin fans are PAST WRONG! Even with 2 radiators, one of them should be exhaust and one intake.
Imagine letting intern 3 reply to jays emails. 😂😂
I think this is the last pc you get from origin😂
i think the same
all of my rad fans are intake... i have 60mm EK rads, and have 6 on my 360 (side mount), but only 2 on my 240 (bottom mount). but they are all intake. i have 3 exhaust fans on the top of the case. very curious to see how this works. my computer's temps are fantastic in my case.
If you have filters on intake then you should have a slight positive pressure as it will help keep anything that gets stuck in the filter out since positive pressure will push air out of cracks. Also its easier to control the air flow with a slight positive pressure as air escaping through gaps matter less.
I'm sorry, but I feel like the message from origin PC was not interpreted correctly. I'll use an example to show what they said. Imagine two identical hot cups of tea. One of them is sitting on the table, the other one is in the fridge. Which of them will dissipate heat faster? Now instead of cups of tea, imagine the same example with light bulbs. Which one is going to be cooler? It's not that the air can increase the heat in any of them, but the largest temperature difference is going to enable better heat dissipation. Better heat dissipation in all the components means that all the components (including all the components that don't have a thermometer attached to them) would be better off. Origin basically argued that the 3.6C in internal temperature is more important than 6c on the actively cooled components.
The counterargument is that dust accumulation would be cancelling out the effect of the bigger temperature difference, but this is not the argument that Jayz made.
well. Jay had me at the sound effects....
who runs fans at 100% all the time though? maybe 60% fan speed would be a fair test over time... as give the air more time to heat.
Imagine buying a super expensive liquid cooled gaming PC with the best graphics card available only to find out that the fan curve is fixed to 100% and if you change the fan curve you void your warranty!
OriginPC is hot garbage. Had a 4600 dollar build show up with a bricked refurbished Chinese knock off 4090 in it.
Even with mid size cases with an aio I've seen 8-10° lower CPU temps mounting the rad in the front with intake vs in the roof as exhaust. This does however add a few degrees to most internal components because I had fans in the front blowing fresh air into the case with the rad on top. So really depends on the setup when deciding how to set it up.
I do airflow the same way that jay does
I guess cooling is overrated.
@jayztwocents Unless the case is fairly free air flow or using high static pressure fans, you'll always see better overall cooling with intake and exhaust fans. However, the sponsor isn't wrong that higher temp will increase failures. There are factors used in calculating MTBF related to ambient temperature: 25C=1x; 30C=1.5x; 40C=3x; 50C=6x; 60C=12x; 70C=22x. So, yes, 30C will result in a shorter life of the components, but not likely enough for most of your audience to care.
I was hoping he would have added an intake on the back and left all the exhaust as is to see how that affected teh temps.