This is part 2 of how to climb with tag lines, only this time I'm talking about how to rappel with a tag line. patron: / ryantilleyclimbinganda... Instagram: rtillson_
I’ve switched to this knot from the double fisherman’s for that scenario. Rich Carlson did a video on this also. He referenced some testing done in New Zealand. On the single overhand knot, the knot started rolling at just under 8kn and rolling was the ultimate cause of failure on all three test samples. On the double overhand knot, the the knot did not roll and the failure was due to the knot breaking at 11-13kn (approx 55% of the rope strength).
Thanks for the video!! I’ll add that if you do the method of clipping the overhand bite into the other strand of the rope off of two side-by-side rap rings, the rope will get hopelessly twisted around itself. The way you demonstrated with the single mallion is very important! Learn from my stupidity!
I started climbing sometime in the 1970's and never could figure out how to recover my rap line. Finally 4-5 years ago I learned this technique or something similar to it and my eyes were opened. Yes, 50 years plus is a long time to search for a new method but nonetheless I did it.
New knot ...cool..👍As small n big ropes can feed unevenly just be sure to really hammer home that the big rope has the grab knot not the other way around !..
A solution I've heard for this issue was to use the tail of the smaller diameter rope and tie a second overhand knot over the tail of the larger diameter rope & snug it up against the EDK in order to prevent the EDK from rolling and coming untied
Thanks for this. A couple of questions: Does the carabiner get banged up when doing full length rappels? I guess depending on the drag the biner could fall quite some distance with every rappel? Secondly, does this method preclude pre-threading the next station as you pull down the rope? The block would be on the wrong side every other rappel? With big rings I guess you could push the knots through? How about with smaller maillons? Does this mean re-tying at every station?
I can’t answer all of these, but in regards to the rap rings - be very careful with closing the system (clipping the rope to itself) with rings. Two things about that - the knot could get sucked into the ring and get stuck, OR, because you pull your rope through two points it could get horribly twisted and because the rope is clipped to itself, it doesn’t untwist well. It could easily become impossible to untwist from all the friction. Using one mallion that’s big enough to pull the rope, but small enough that the knot can’t jam is best. And yes, you have to re-tie. That’s the big downside to using the tag line. You could pull the rope down, keep it tied, and thread the tag line through. But if you do the tag will slip around and the solution to that gets complicated …
what would be a good example of when not to use a grigri? Been climbing for a year now, total beginner. I exclusively use a grigri, every rap. Is that bad?
Yo Ryan! I hope all is well. Quick question regarding rapping with a tagline...if you are on smaller diameter ropes, do you recommend grabbing the tag and main line both with your third hand auto block? Thanks in advance and Happy Holidays.
If you’re using the repshnur hitch then you don’t need to put the tagline in the third hand, but I guess that may help with adding some friction to the system, especially if you have thinner ropes. When I have the two tied together to make a normal rappel with the tagline then I always put my third hand around the tagline.
Hey Ryan! Thank you for the informative videos. You get me stoked. I really dig the tagline for extended rappel, so much so that I just purchased a 6.0 Black Diamond line myself. That thing is stiff! Do you have any tips for wrapping or storing it in a bag for a clean deployment? Thank you and keep after it!
Hey man, thanks for the kind words. As for a tip for the clean deployment, I don’t really have a specific one, I guess the big thing is to put it in a bag that’s narrow enough that when you stack the rope in the new coils don’t fold over the older ones. Hope you have a good time rappelling!
@@ryantilley9063 Awesome. Thank you for the reply. I am trying it out tomorrow. If you are ever driving through Central California and want to climb some trippy rock, hit me up for some climbs at Pinnacles NP. Take care.
Thanks for the video. If I want to use the tag line only for retrieving my rope after a rappel and not for hauling, would there be any issues using a tag line with a diameter smaller than 6mm?
If i were to join two ropes together, the smaller rope tied to a tree, using it for an extended rappel line with ropes 9.8mm and 8mm, would you use the barrel knot like in the video to join the two ropes?
If you’re just rappelling on the climbing rope then you just need the third hand on that rope. If you’re rapping with the Gibbs bend and using both ropes to rappel on then you do want a third hand on both ropes.
If you're rappelling on both the lines tied together then you want to wrap the third hand around both strands. If you are just using the tag line as a pull line and have the the system set up so you only are rappelling on the climbing rope then you just have to wrap the third hand around the climbers strand.
I am not expert by any means, when you make the clove hitch with the carabiner at the end of the video, from my understanding the carabiners should not be used on the horizontal orientation which can be dangerous and in that way they are not as strong as they are intended to be used like on the vertical position, isn't it that putting you at risk?. Thanks for sharing.
Me and my friends have had the normal hitch get caught on things while pulling the rope down before. It’s a little cleaner to have the other line free, but overall it’s probably more personal opinion than anything else.
Yep, they are both used in the same application but the EDK has a flat edge to more easily slide over an edge or a ledge here the double fisherman's could get caught (or other joining knot.) The double Fishermans is also harder to untie after its been weighted a lot.
Can you use a tag line to bring proper climbing lines on the way up a multi pitch? I was thinking of trying snake dike next year and setting up 3 tag lines on the first 3 pitches in the late afternoon before my climb. That way in the morning I can use the tag lines to set up top ropes for the first three pitches in order to speed me and my brother up to the 4th pitch real early in the day and start leading from there. Does this sound like something that’s possible if I’m setting up my own trad anchors?
@@Papershields001 definitely a hair brained scheme, it already assumes you'll be camping at the base of the climb, so the need to speed up the first few pitches seems silly. Just do the climb normally, if you can't lead 5.7 then train more.
That knot is the barrel knot
I’ve switched to this knot from the double fisherman’s for that scenario. Rich Carlson did a video on this also. He referenced some testing done in New Zealand. On the single overhand knot, the knot started rolling at just under 8kn and rolling was the ultimate cause of failure on all three test samples. On the double overhand knot, the the knot did not roll and the failure was due to the knot breaking at 11-13kn (approx 55% of the rope strength).
I use the stacked double fisherman, does not catch as easily on ledges
ahh like the tip about the clove instead of the overhand for the biner block. Nice vid, thumbs up.
Really like your videos. Very clear and at a good level for people who just need a simple run-through before practicing.
Thanks for the video!!
I’ll add that if you do the method of clipping the overhand bite into the other strand of the rope off of two side-by-side rap rings, the rope will get hopelessly twisted around itself. The way you demonstrated with the single mallion is very important!
Learn from my stupidity!
I started climbing sometime in the 1970's and never could figure out how to recover my rap line. Finally 4-5 years ago I learned this technique or something similar to it and my eyes were opened. Yes, 50 years plus is a long time to search for a new method but nonetheless I did it.
New knot ...cool..👍As small n big ropes can feed unevenly just be sure to really hammer home that the big rope has the grab knot not the other way around !..
A solution I've heard for this issue was to use the tail of the smaller diameter rope and tie a second overhand knot over the tail of the larger diameter rope & snug it up against the EDK in order to prevent the EDK from rolling and coming untied
It’s like one side of the double fisherman’s knot
I was thinking the same thing. It's almost like a barrel knot right?
🤙🏽 as always a great video
Gibbs bend
It's essentially a barrel knot with two ropes
Nice thanks!
Well done man.... great to see info without the EGO that usually gets turned off 10 seconds in... 👍
it's a "double over hand" used as a "bend" (joining two ends of line). slang is "double fisherman" which is half of making a loop "bend"
CONGRATS Mr. Tllley!!! Very Interesting!!! Thank You very much!!!
Best Wishes.
Great job 👍💯
Thanks for this. A couple of questions: Does the carabiner get banged up when doing full length rappels? I guess depending on the drag the biner could fall quite some distance with every rappel? Secondly, does this method preclude pre-threading the next station as you pull down the rope? The block would be on the wrong side every other rappel? With big rings I guess you could push the knots through? How about with smaller maillons? Does this mean re-tying at every station?
I can’t answer all of these, but in regards to the rap rings - be very careful with closing the system (clipping the rope to itself) with rings. Two things about that - the knot could get sucked into the ring and get stuck, OR, because you pull your rope through two points it could get horribly twisted and because the rope is clipped to itself, it doesn’t untwist well. It could easily become impossible to untwist from all the friction.
Using one mallion that’s big enough to pull the rope, but small enough that the knot can’t jam is best.
And yes, you have to re-tie. That’s the big downside to using the tag line. You could pull the rope down, keep it tied, and thread the tag line through. But if you do the tag will slip around and the solution to that gets complicated …
Any reason why you did not clip the biner to the weighted rope as well in the last example with the biner block?
what would be a good example of when not to use a grigri? Been climbing for a year now, total beginner. I exclusively use a grigri, every rap. Is that bad?
Yo Ryan! I hope all is well. Quick question regarding rapping with a tagline...if you are on smaller diameter ropes, do you recommend grabbing the tag and main line both with your third hand auto block? Thanks in advance and Happy Holidays.
If you’re using the repshnur hitch then you don’t need to put the tagline in the third hand, but I guess that may help with adding some friction to the system, especially if you have thinner ropes. When I have the two tied together to make a normal rappel with the tagline then I always put my third hand around the tagline.
@@ryantilley9063 Much appreciated Ryan. Thank you for the informative videos.
Hey Ryan! Thank you for the informative videos. You get me stoked. I really dig the tagline for extended rappel, so much so that I just purchased a 6.0 Black Diamond line myself. That thing is stiff! Do you have any tips for wrapping or storing it in a bag for a clean deployment? Thank you and keep after it!
Hey man, thanks for the kind words. As for a tip for the clean deployment, I don’t really have a specific one, I guess the big thing is to put it in a bag that’s narrow enough that when you stack the rope in the new coils don’t fold over the older ones. Hope you have a good time rappelling!
@@ryantilley9063 Awesome. Thank you for the reply. I am trying it out tomorrow. If you are ever driving through Central California and want to climb some trippy rock, hit me up for some climbs at Pinnacles NP. Take care.
Thanks for the video. If I want to use the tag line only for retrieving my rope after a rappel and not for hauling, would there be any issues using a tag line with a diameter smaller than 6mm?
If i were to join two ropes together, the smaller rope tied to a tree, using it for an extended rappel line with ropes 9.8mm and 8mm, would you use the barrel knot like in the video to join the two ropes?
What do you mean by "every other rope"? Is it a thiner One?
Can you use an even thinner cord with the last approach to carry of less weight? Or will it get stuck too much?
Do you pit a third hand on just the rope or rope and tag line?
If you’re just rappelling on the climbing rope then you just need the third hand on that rope. If you’re rapping with the Gibbs bend and using both ropes to rappel on then you do want a third hand on both ropes.
hey there is a mising moove at 2.00 ........
When we hitting Prescott for some climbs?
does your third hand ie.prussik/autoblock rap around the tag line and green rope or just green rope?
thanks
If you're rappelling on both the lines tied together then you want to wrap the third hand around both strands. If you are just using the tag line as a pull line and have the the system set up so you only are rappelling on the climbing rope then you just have to wrap the third hand around the climbers strand.
@@ryantilley9063 gotcha that makes sense. Thank you for replying and your explanation. I appreciate it
I am not expert by any means, when you make the clove hitch with the carabiner at the end of the video, from my understanding the carabiners should not be used on the horizontal orientation which can be dangerous and in that way they are not as strong as they are intended to be used like on the vertical position, isn't it that putting you at risk?. Thanks for sharing.
You’re only using it as a block, it’s not actually crossloaded
@@verifiedhandle9103 Thanks for the clarification.
Why do you think the caribiner block is better? I do canyoneering too and always question a number of things canyoneers will do?
Me and my friends have had the normal hitch get caught on things while pulling the rope down before. It’s a little cleaner to have the other line free, but overall it’s probably more personal opinion than anything else.
It is the same as the double fisherman's.
Yep, they are both used in the same application but the EDK has a flat edge to more easily slide over an edge or a ledge here the double fisherman's could get caught (or other joining knot.) The double Fishermans is also harder to untie after its been weighted a lot.
It's a double barrel knot
Can you use a tag line to bring proper climbing lines on the way up a multi pitch?
I was thinking of trying snake dike next year and setting up 3 tag lines on the first 3 pitches in the late afternoon before my climb. That way in the morning I can use the tag lines to set up top ropes for the first three pitches in order to speed me and my brother up to the 4th pitch real early in the day and start leading from there. Does this sound like something that’s possible if I’m setting up my own trad anchors?
Is this a hair-brained scheme or do you think it could work?
@@Papershields001 definitely a hair brained scheme, it already assumes you'll be camping at the base of the climb, so the need to speed up the first few pitches seems silly. Just do the climb normally, if you can't lead 5.7 then train more.
@@PierreUsedToPost we just did it the normal way last month. I forgotten I’d written this.