PRR Steam Audio Recording: T1 Duplex
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2024
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Track Description...
"Class T1 (4-4-4-4) #5505 westbound, climbing Horseshoe Curve just west of Altoona, PA with a Harrisburg-Pittsburgh Local Train #19. First heard 1/4 mile away, the T1's exhaust fades then strengthens as she passes the site of Kittanning Point Station and rounds the Curve, heading towards Gallitzin. Note the unusual sounds of the T1's poppet valves. This recording was made on July 5, 1949.
From "Steam on the Standard Railroad of the World. Vol I" by Semaphore Records
www.semaphorere...
Photos - www.godfatherra...
![Horseshoe Curve, 1917 [Silent]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/50w7wRnih1I/mqdefault.jpg)
There is a great deal of accurate PRR T1 info out there now. I suggest the naysayers get themselves educated on this machine. 99.9% of those folks never even saw a T1, or worked for the Penn. The T1 was a LOT more locomotive than it gets credit for and a lot of this goes with internal Penn politics of the time. Every success to the T1 Trust !
Lived about a half block from the Pennsy in Van Wert, OH until 1948 and had plenty of chances to see Crestline's big iron haul the PRR varnish. I was always bugging my dad to take me to Grandpa's warehouse on the Town Creek curve so I could see the mail car snag the mail sack and kick out the incoming. They really turned the T1's loose west of town where they reached "the Ft. Wayne Racecourse."
A friend who lived behind us had a grandfather on his father's side who was a passenger engineer on the PRR Fort Wayne Div and thought very highly of the T1.
They had a large O gauge Lionel train layout in their basement that they would run during the Holidays for visiting family, and the neighborhood kids, like me. That was where I learned about the Pennsy and it's T1's. Been a big fan ever since!
b3j8 m~
Few steam locomotives are as beautiful as the T1. It has always been a lifetime favorite but unfortunately came too late in the steam era to be fully developed to show its full potential.
Few locomotives of ANY propulsion are as beautiful.
What an awesome sound at the 45 second mark and beyond.
Sharp but light exhaust. These locos can really chuff thanks to those poppet valves.
Wow, interesting. I didn't know they used the T-1's in this kind of service. The poppet valves also give it a very distinct sound. The exhaust beats seem much more consistent and precisely timed than with conventional valve gear. Towards the end, it almost sounded like a GE U-boat because of the sound of the chuffs. 5/5.
It's kinda creepy when you first hear it and when it fades away. I love the T - 1 duplex it's my fav steam locomotive.
Like a ghost in the distance
@@LIMowersAndMore yeah exactly
The most beautiful steam locomotive of ever!
forward drivers slipped notoriously from a dead stop. Took a highly skilled Engineer.
Peter43John, I love how you don't say that if it has wheel slip than it's bad. These were definitely good engines and while they did have a lot of wheel slip, it was mostly the crews who had to get a feel of the throttle.
@@motormouth2472 What hurt the T1 was its valve gear. Should have been built with rotary cam poppet valves. The factor of adhesion was just fine so the locomotive wasn’t inherently slippery.
One of the most beautiful and advanced steam locomotives of all time ... and no one was saved! :'(
this was a beautiful powerful engine. Bring it back.
Well I’ve got good news for you sir
It's nice to hear the duplex working Horseshoe Curve!
Fantastic vid and recording! Thanks immensely for sharing this! 5 stars!
Great pictures and sound of an extraordinary engine.
Thanks!
The T1 is getting steamed again with number 1361.
This apparent wire recording of a T-1 seems to be the only one known of this unique locomotive. At least it didn't slip a set of its drivers (which the T-1's were notorious for doing) while passing during this recording!
@rboffill - You have to remember, the Pennsy's engineers were used to running the K4s Pacifics and other smaller locomotives. They simply weren't used to these giant brutes and the power they had to offer and because of that, they treated them just like the Pacifics. I like to compare it to jumping into a Corvette after driving a 1990 Toyota Corolla for years. The C&O borrowed a T1 and reported no issues with traction or slipping, even when starting on grades.
a better analogy would be from a corolla to a viper. corvettes are powerful but kinda idiot proofed, but early vipers were notorious for not holding your hand.
in any case, it absolutely makes sense that engineers used to locos nearly half the size wouldn't know quite how to best handle something large like that. must've been terrible to be the people that built the T1 and hear all this negativity around it when you know it should work fine.
The N&W reported similarly when 5511 (T1) went for trials, yet PRR crews reported the 610 (J) to be a bit slippery, at least compared to the duplexes which were higher wheeled and weren't "all-coupled," and had similar reports when trialing the A class. All these tests might've exposed how hard Pennsy crews usually ran their engines, but they also revealed that N&W's finest were lacking for the type of service the Pennsy would've used them for. Of the war duplexes, the A and J would've only outperformed a Q1 in their respective speed ranges, a Q2 or T1 cleared them quite easily
Great sound recording and photos. Thanks.
The late John Prophet made this recording on a wire recorder of PRR train #19, "The Duquesne". It is still the only known recording of not only a T1, but of one pulling a passenger train over the Alleghanies and around the Curve UNASSISTED! Pretty big achievement for a locomotive routinely called a failure!
Great audio recording. Nice slides. T1s rule.
They were a beautiful design to look at!
The T1 is a beautiful machine - shame it got scrapped :'(
What a majestic looking steam locomotive
There is a trust set up to build a new T1 #5550. They are looking for donations. Google PRR T1 Trust 5550
There is another steam locomotive project that they're building, a new NYC J-3 Hudson!
Update October 2015: The T1 Trust are creating the molds to cast the first two 80-inch drivers. They will pour the steel within the next 3 months or so, I should think.
+HotRod Buick The project is doomed to fail from the beginning... I can see the parts being scrapped in the next 7 years.
Railfan346 That's not good at all!!!
brian falzon At least Mallard keeps its record. Record belongs to the British anyways
T-1 one trust all the way
My favorite steam engine. Admittedly, not a COMPLETE success, but... "Well, nobody's perfect! ": A VERY beautiful locomotive.
I don't know why anything can't at least LOOK nice anymore.
Good lord that bark must've been heard for MILES
A Magnificent Work.
Nice job my Pappap had this record and played it for me when I was a young PUP
It was just a standard Pennsy 3-chime, same as you'd find on a K4s with the only difference being pressure. The K4s played it at 205 PSI while the T1 ran 300 PSI. I've got a sound clip of what was claimed to be an original T1 whistle on Ohio Central 4-8-4 #6325. It sounds decent.
ha i'm doing a drawing of the exact loco i love the duplex type especially 6100 & 6130
Wheel slip city (i have seen video of the T1wheel slip). What was the big box in front of the locomotive for?
That would've been for housing the air compressor pumps and the reservoirs
They were superb
The sharks of the PRR...
No T1's survived sadly. This is actually my second favorite train with the first being the PRR S1 which is what the T1's running gear was based off of and "improved"
I wonder what they'd look like without the shrouding. I've seen pics of unshrouded N&W J's and they look quite a bit different. Not as much as the T-1 would though. If you look at how far back the stack is compared to the headlight, you can see there's a lot of presumably hollow shrouding. I guess we'll find out as the #5550 progresses!
Thanks a lot! Great pictures.
@@Through_the_Rubicon_Junction I can't find the picture when I search them up.
Love the sound.
Bro i live near the horseshoe curve. Cant wait to go there when this thing is operational
I just recently found out some informtion about the first T1 shown. Apparently the PRR experimented with two T1s; one remaind a T1 but was given Franklin rotary cam poppet valves instead of the usual poppets, the other was renamed, the T1a and it had Walschaerts,(as shown) the change came to little; too late for the Duplex, who knows maby they were planing to articulate one?
A shame that these weren't preserved. Ironically, inspite of some of their problems, including traction, the T-1 was one of the best balanced large steamers ever produced. Did not "pound" the rails like most of the other large steamers in existence.
Soon to be a new T1 called 5550 by the PRR T1 Trust.
Got one on my HO scale layout. BLI did a great job❤
wonderful...does she slip at 0.27, a quite frequent problem of that engine?
@intercityrailpal - I believe it is more than possible. A friend of mine says that casting a frame that size can still be accomplished but as it's a one-off, the cost would be extreme. You'd also have to consider whether you wanted to keep the Poppet valves (I say yes) and where to build and store the damn thing...all 123 feet of it.
If the interest is there, I wouldn't object to founding the T1 Trust. :-)
Love the T1❤
@hcrun yeah but that's only cause this thing never actually got officially recorded at about 140-145mph
Sounds a lot like a Alco M630/636 on a cold winter night!
@nclemens
The fastest speed (~ 126mph) set by a steam locomotive still stands at that done by the LNER "Mallard" back in 1938.
@jppicur - The T1 was not that much heavier than 4-8-4s being manufactured around that time. The T1 tipped the scales at 944,700 pounds where as the 844 (a traditional 4-8-4) weighs in at 907,890 pounds...both figures are fully loaded with fuel and water.
aerodynamics do help a train in some way, in the case of steam trains, by moving the air away from the areas it would generate drag in.
@LycoValleyRRFan it does sound like an Alco...and I ran M630/M636's for CPR and that is what they sound like on a cold winter night!
I’ve never seen a T-1 with walschaerts valve gear
I don't know I feel like if someone drove a honda civic every day, then tried to handle a nascar they might not be able to control it completely.
the steam turbine engines of the 50's were actually extremely efficient. If your great uncles engine was pounding the track, they had something severely out of balance. Steamers run down the track quite smoothly if everything is in proper working order. The N&W 611 is claimed to be one of the smoothest rides on the rail.
Anyone notice a difference in some of the pictures. Some of the locomotives have diffrent steps on the front of the engines
There were various phases the T1 went through to improve it. The version with the sharknose smokebox, no port holes on the bow, and steps on the front being the most modern.
In my village in Mexico they run this beautiful train width 5 Cabs original.
No they most certainly do not.
I don't think so!
the ti had a walschaerts valve gear in the first image and the rest had different ones.
Steam was never given the chance to reach its full potential.
Thank you for pointing out my mistake in word choice. Regardless, and please don't take this the wrong way, I highly suggest you find a better use of your time than correcting other people's grammar and spelling mistakes.
The first 20 seconds might be a T1 the rest it likely a J-1. The duplex engines sounded like a double header the part after 20 seconds or so is a simple engine.
@TandemDawgBMG
Tough!
It's the official recordings that count - in anything. (Otherwise there'd be an awful lot of really huge fish! :) )
From what I've read, the original designs still exist and were used to create a beautiful large-scale live steam model built by Ed Woodings. It would be possible to build a new one if you had the money. The resources are out there...it's just the almighty dollar stopping us.
@HaloCE14
I Know... :-(
The Streamlined Hudsons...wonderful!
Blueprints should still exist. The British recently completed a new steam locomotive as did the IRM.
If you listen closely, you can here the engineer blow the whistle. 1:08
@nclemens - I already made up my mind....if I ever make it filthy rich, I'm building one of these.
not really. Unless you happen to be pushing extreme speeds. 150 mph or more.
@uberkelvin i find it beautiful as well but the fact is they were just too high maintenance
Wonder what the whistles on them sounded like...
There is a video of a whistle that came from a T-1 that was put on an Ohio Central engine. Or you can hear the whistle briefly in old video clips of the T-1 Duplex posted by the PRR T-1 Duplex trust.
@Matthew Pastrikos yeah. I know the PRR loved the 3 chimes. Probably the prettiest steam whistles I've ever heard in my opinion.
You included tender weights. Locomotive alone, the production T-1 was 502,200# with 279,900# on drivers. That's an average driving axle load of 35 tons - pretty heavy! In checking weight stats, I found five classes of 4-8-4s that outweighed the T-1. These were the ATSF '2900', C&O J-3, NP A-4 & A-5 and WM J-1. The UP locos were lighter. The heaviest, the ATSF '2900', weighed in at 510,700 with 295K on drivers. I accept the T-1 was not heavier than the heaviest 4-8-4s, but it was close.
Almost sounds like an ALCO.
@Petemonster62 Raymond Loewy. Google that name.
@rboffill That my friend, is false. The engineers weren't properly trained to run these locomotives.
Would have been better as a 4-8-4. The PRR was leasing 4-8-4's from the RDG (also coincidentally class T-1) long after the PRR's T-1 4-4-4-4's had been retired and likely scrapped.
@HaloCE14
I Live in Italy and this is a common problem... :-(
What do you mean by "poppet valve" their habits?
No. Franklin Poppet Valves were the types of cylinders that the engine was powered by.
But it wasn't for the same reason as the S1.
great ,shot of those ti duplex loco,s its shame the diesels ousted these magnificent machines scorpiontail united kingdom
I see 2 john in comment
I think I heard a diesel horn at 1:09.
That was the whistle.
@@steamtrainfan9542 oh okay, thanks.
OK, 15mph faster than Malard but to look at......
Look I'm all up for a new T1 but I just didn't think it's right to insult gresley by beating his record with modern technology. I just think that the record should be left recorded in the days when steam was used.
1. Please consider improving your spelling and grammar
2. The S1 suffered from the flaw you just pointed out, the T1's where pulled from service due to rapidly rising maintenance due to constant valve failure due to their design limitations being exceeded repeatedly. They were designed to run at up to 100 miles per hour, but were supposedly repeatedly ran at up to 140. This lead to the valves repeatedly failing. Regardless, they were still prone to wheel slip when starting and at speed.
Damn lazy shop staff! LOL
Contrary to the PRRH&TS apologists, the T1 was an economic and mechanical failure. Its slippage problems were due to design flaws, as determined by ASME. The duplex concept was a failure everywhere it was tried. Whether its inherent problems might eventually have been worked out, we'll never know. It was also an overly heavy beast, and no railroad would allow it on their tracks today -- especially as a coal burner. The poppet valves were also a big maintenance headache.
Clickbait
Brandon Crete How is this clickbait? If you bothered to read the description, it says it's from a CD of PRR steam audio. If you were expecting video of it, you should know that in the 40s and 50s, homemade video WITH sound was extremely rare....you either had silent video or this.
I take that back
I’ve never seen a T1 with walschearts valve gear
That was an experimental change by PRR to address both the short-comings of the expensive poppet valve system, as well as the tendency of the forward engine to slip. Years ago, retired PRR enginemen told me that a well-trained patient engineer would have no more trouble w/a T1 slipping than any other class of engine.