Who made the best vintage US bench vises? Comparing a Reed R, Hollands & Columbian (part 1 of 2):
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- I feel that Reed, Wilton and Athol represented the pinnacle of vintage USA made bench vises. In this video we look at the Reed R series which gets my vote as the overall best bench vise for general purpose use. ****I realized after posting this video that I referred to the leadscrew threads on the 3 vises shown here as "Acme" which is technically not correct. They are all square cut threads and not Acme. Generally, USA made vintage vises used the square cut thread style. I sometimes get a little lazy with the adjectives and use the terms interchangeably. They are two distinct thread profiles. I thought I would put this little addendum in the description just in case a machinist watches this video and starts shaking their head at my verbiage.**** In future videos we might look at some Wilton and Athol models.
Hello Terry! That was a fantastic tutorial on Heavy Duty Vises. The shame of it is that the quality of these old vises is what helped put them out of business, they were passed from generation to generation and lasted at least one lifetime. If they only lasted ten years they might have had a chance to stay in business. I agree with you on Reed, they aren't often found around as people sell them last. =D Jacob looks great!!!! Awesome video! Thanks!
Thank you John. There was no planned obsolescence when these were built. Wilton and Reed are still in business. Athol was sold to Starrett and Columbian to Wilton. Looking forward to your next video. Have a great day.
Thank you sir for such a detailed analysis of these exceptional vises. Great video!!! 👍🏽
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it!
Nice discussion. Your $50 Reed was a steal, but my son-in-law got one for $28. I have the Columbian 505; it's been a great vise for me. i got it used in 1973. Also, it has a washer on the screw.
28 bucks for a Reed was an amazing buy!
Great video. I am a Parker user, restorer and collector. May I respectfully offer an opinion…
The fixed base Parkers are best used on a pedestal as opposed to a bench. Therefore only the mounting plate needs a notch.
The swivel base vises are good on a bench.
Note: the fixed base vises are not flat on the bottom. To avoid unnecessary stress on the mounting points, use washers between the vise and the plate it is mounted to.
Thanks again for a great study.
If it was an 8" model or perhaps a 6" I could see the point of mounting on a pedestal. The average user of a 4" vise (as in the video) is probably using it on a bench. That being said, the Parker is a great vise!
Very nice presentation. A well maintained vise with the appropriate jaws is a valuable tool when disassembling and assembling items. I have used many vises in my career. Some worked well and others I had to disassemble and clean, lube and reassemble to have them work well. I never paid attention to the manufactures. Some were well made, others were not good when new. Thanks for bring the manufacturers to my attention. However I have laid my tools down. I do very little repair work anymore.
Have a Great Day!
Thank you. I appreciate you watching the video.
I'm restoring a Morgan 40A, and I don't see the issue with a "loose" nut - the purpose of the nut is to engage the threads of the leadscrew and hold fast against the base of the vise. As long as one can tighten against the nut, it's doing its job. Yes, a forged and machined nut is less likely to break. I also see the adjustable collar on leadscrew as a simple means of taking up any slop that might develop between leadscrew handle and moveable jaw.
The purpose of the video was to discuss the small differences that set Reed apart from otherwise common vise designs like the Morgan. The Reed is better engineered and more user friendly. It cost more to build and took more time to manufacture. The machined ways, the beautifully forged and machined nut, the provision for lubrication without disassembling, the provision for slop adjustment without dissassembly. Fireball tool just did some bench vise torture tests and the Morgan broke pretty quickly. The Morgan swivel base design is pretty weak too from what I saw.
Great comparison of these vises! Earlier this summer came across a Reed 205R all apart in a box, rusty. Best $25 I have spent. Love the picture of your son riding a vise! Thanks
Wow...you stole that Reed for 25 bucks. They really are great vises.
I am so glad to have discovered your channel via Scoutcrafter. I really enjoyed your review of these beautiful US made vintage benches, subscribed and rang the notification bell! 😊
Glad that you enjoyed the video. I appreciate you subscribing. Thanks.
Fantastic vises! I agree with you completely about swivel bases vs. direct mounting. I'm American, but I live in Australia. I discovered Dawn Vices (they spell VISE as VICE here) about 3 years ago, and am impressed by their quality and that some are still made in Australia. Their super grade offset vises are (I think) the finest vises made in the Anglo world (if not the world). The Australian dollar is weak, so you even with shipping, you could probably get a new one for less than the cost of a new Wilton (a USA-made Wilton). I've restored/conserved a few older Dawns (including a wood vise that is at least 70 years old), and I also own several new ones. (As with Wilton, only some are now made domestically, so you have to look at their catalog carefully to get an Australian-made one.) The new ones and old ones have the same robust build quality with simple designs that go back more than 100 years. (Dawn has been making vises in Australia since 1917.) One thing I've noticed about Dawn vises that might be unique to them--please tell me if I'm wrong!--is the nut does not have a pin holding in place; rather, there is a recess cast in the base within which the nut sits. Though older Dawn catalogs show swivel bases and quick-release options, the modern Australian-made vises are all the original, simple still without quick-release or a swivel base. I think Americans should try to support this company, and with 100 years of history that is almost entirely unknown outside of Australia, you'll find it an interesting dive :)
Here is a great history of Dawn: motofaction.org/tool-reviews/dawn-manufacturing-australia-tools-vice-history-company-information-coburg/
Maybe one day you can make a video about them....
@@BencoVintageMachineWorks I don't really have any experience making UA-cam videos, but I would like to do one someday.
Found you from scoutcrafter. Very interesting video on vises. Hope you, your family, and neighbors are able to recover quickly from the storm damage.
Thank you Roy. We are in the process of finding a home. The community has come together nicely after the storm.
First time viewer here , i fairly recently bought a very old yost vice , probably 200 pounds in weight but know nothing about American vices , im in England.
Its enormous & im interested to learn more .
Thanks
Can't go wrong with any of the old USA vises. Take it apart and clean/lubricate it. Will outlast us both.
Great video. Just found a Reed 105R (11/49 build) locally that I am going over. Took a while to find. Was surprised to notice that the screw is of a smaller diameter than my 4 1/4” jaw Parker No. 49. Otherwise the construction and design of the 105R seems to be top notch.
It is top notch overall as you noticed. Of course all these vises are good. Its just fun to compare them and ruffle feathers along the way. The reality is that anyone who manages to break any one of these beauties is more likely the problem, not the vise.
Very good video and info. Worked for a crane company and they had all reed vises. We didn't have any vise problems
Thank you for watching the video. Glad you enjoyed it.
Great job as always Terry! I’d definitely like to see your review on Athol and other machinist vises.
Hello Brian,
Those Athol bench vises are some of the best ever made. Once you get into the upper echelon of bench vises, it's really more personal preference than any major shortcomings. Except, you could argue, Wilton which has some shortcomings but still has great performance. My wife and I took a big hit from hurricane Ian and are in the process of finding a place to live. Looking forward to getting back to making videos asap. As always, thank you for checking out the video.
Hello Terry. New subscriber from Scoutcrafter. Glad you made it through Ian. Our thoughts and prayers are with all of you. Great video. Very interesting content. I look forward to the next video comparing some of the other brands of old U.S. vises. Take care.
Thank you for your prayers. My wife and I appreciate them. Glad to hear that you enjoyed the video. I appreciate you watching.
I don’t consider the shorter screw a disadvantage as the vise maintains the overlap the slide so clamping is possible without damaging the the vise like the Columbian or Wilton which become wracked or bent. IMO. I enjoy your video, thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it. Check out part 2 with the Parker vise...
@@BencoVintageMachineWorks my 5” Reed is an older model which has the round “hub” for the handle. Yours has a nicer setup nut. Mine also has the swivel jaw which isn’t super helpful. I have used it…. The vise works most every day. I enjoy seeing your stuff. My buddy has an Athol on his bench which is totally any other vise except it was his dad’s. I tried to tell him it is pretty cool. I would like to tune his up a little.
@cogentdynamics To be honest, most of the vintage US bench vises are decent if used within their intended scope. Its just fun taking things apart to compare.
For me, one of the best features of the threaded collar retaining nut on the Reed is it doesn’t require a detent drilled into the screw to hold the retaining collar (like on the Colombian). This leaves you with a stronger screw. Drilling the hole creates a failure point that the Reed system avoids.
Exactly. Worse yet are the vises designed where they drill a hole through the screw to secure the spring (which takes up backlash).
I also stopped by from Scoutcrafter's channel. Praying for you and your neighbors. I am interested in watching your videos also. I have a couple of old vises I will be restoring in the future.
Hello Chuck, thanks for stopping by. We are grateful for the outpouring of support we have received. This is a nice community here on UA-cam.
As a Parker they did make great vices lol
Dont forgot about Bulldog, Columbia, and Hilton.
Yes Parker did make some great vises. Part II of this video proves it!
I have two Reed 3C vises. They are brutes. They beat just about any cast vise made today.
Can't go wrong with a Reed
A guy on UA-cam built his own brand vise, his Fire 🔥 Ball vise is hella strong 💪.
It is mentioned in the video, best vise out there.
Awesome video - plenty of detail but also practical. Can you suggest any brands/models that would be second or third tier from the old made in USA era? I've been watching estate sales, ebay, craigslist, etc. for a few months now and still haven't found anything in the 4-5" size I'm looking for, in decent shape, for less than a couple hundred bucks. For a general homeowner (no welding, extensive work load, or shop environment) who jsut needs to hold things tightly in place on the weekends, is a old made in USA craftsman vice fit the bill? I see they tend to run cheaper by a good margin on Ebay etc. Is there another brand that has less history and doesn't make the top list, but is probably a good idea for someone with my needs?
Sure, an old Craftsman vise would be ok for general homeowner use. They were popular. I would be on the lookout for a Hollands which are usually a little cheaper than some of the other brands. A vintage Hollands is a good mixture of cost and build quality. Good luck with the search.
I bought an old Craftsman for 30$ which is actually a rebranded Columbian 604 1/2 and it is HEAVY! Anything with US made on it is going to be much better quality than anything newer from Asia.
@jimbusmaximus4624
Craftsman had Reed make some vises too back in the day. The Columbian was a great price. Congratulations.
enjoyed this video! now I have to find a reed..lol.. built like a tank! sent by scoutcrafter! awesome content! thank ya!
Glad you enjoyed it. Vises are one of those things that "if the price is right" I can't resist. Thanks for watching the video.
Picked up a reed 105 earlier this year. Knew nothing about what vises were good I just knew I wanted old and big. Learned a lot since then. My 105 has a build date of February, 1900
You won't be disappointed with a Reed. The 2nd part of this video pits the Reed against a few other capable rivals. I think youll enjoy it!
LOL... yeah.. Like how you corrected the Acme thread thing. Working on guns and hot rods etc. I will call any handgun a pistol and an engine a 'motor' I am unapologetic about it.
Yeah...its pretty common.
Yeah I get it.... buying new files got me to restore my old Nicholson files. Also? old hammers and hatchets with broken handles.
I have tried to restore some old files with medicore success. Once I purchased a Grobet NOS file at a swap meet, it totally changed my perceptions of what a metal file could do!
@@BencoVintageMachineWorks These are some things I did.. First I brushed in a thick 'Dawn' (my go to detergent for cleaning) This gets out the old grease and maybe floats out the easy stuff. Do it two or three times scrubbing with a soft brush like a toothbrush. Next I use my 'Ed's Red' (1920's or so gun cleaning formula) it is equal parts of kerosene Automatic trans fluid , mineral spirits and acetone. Then I add a couple of ounces each of real lanolin (protectorant) and amyl acetate (citrus solvent for odor) You seriously need a quart or two of this near u at all times when working on stuff. It comes out #1 or two every time in internet testing for a penetrating oil. I use it to clean guns originally but it is cheap to make and beyond excellent. Plus... it is pennies an ounce so you can really slather it on guilt free. Kroil is the only thing that comes close. Now... let it sit for hours or days.. Get one of those kitchen scrub brushes with copper or brass bristles... Go both ways with the cut of the teeth. The brass will not dull the file like SS would. Throw away your file card... those things kill files. Repeat that last as many times as it takes. My files sat for 20 years crudded up with bondo and aluminum. The Eds Red formula will actually get under the stuff and penetrate into the metal a bit. So far nothing I have ever cleaned with this stuff has rusted again.. I keep a rag lightly soaked in it for wiping down guns that I handle and put away (most of mine are blued) It is a CLP .. Cleaner.... Lubricant...Protectorant. Use it for a while and dollars to donuts? You will do a short vid on it or at least mention it. I am not Ed.... Ed made the original formula and it was published in 'The Rifleman' way back in the 30's Probly some of the guys who used your vices in the way back used the stuff in the shop.
Great video! When I look for antique tools I am attracted to unusual things. Do you have any experience with Oval vises made by The Clipper Tool Company out of Buffalo NY? I really like how they look.
I have never seen one in person, only advertisements. Its a nice looking vise.
Great, informative video. Thanks.
Glad you liked it!
As would be seen in any popular mech,s magazine how great
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Thanks
Stay Mighty
Thank you. I appreciate it.
The more solid the more heavy duty what you need
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@Benco Vintage Machine Works Hi Terry - First things first, I have to tell you that I've watched this video several times and, quite frankly, it totally changed my way of thinking about vises, in general. Instead of buying a new "high tensile PSI" vise, I've decided to buy a Reed "R," but, unfortunately, it's taken a while to find a size that's useful for us...until very recently that is. Although I was waiting to find a Reed 105 R, I've now got a line on a 204-1/2 R that needs some refurbishment. I'm just about ready to pull the trigger on the vise, but I thought that I'd ask you a couple of questions first. The first question is: (1) Do all the Reed "R" vises with the "hockey puck nose" main screw have the slop adjustment on the threaded collar that you went over in this video? (2) How does one tell if a given Reed "R" vise has replaceable jaws? Unlike your 105 R, and based on photos, I can see six distinct holes on the 204-1/2 R that I'm interested in. Two of them are centered just behind each jaw (on top) and the remaining four are on the ends (sides) of the jaws roughly 3/8" back from the "teeth" of the jaws. Anyway, I'm assuming that all six are pin holes; hence, this particular question. Thank you kindly for your time and please keep up the very informative videos. 👍
Yes, the hockey puck is in indication of the threaded collar. Some of the earlier R vises had a round "meatball" nose and some of those did not have it because they were transitioning to it at that time. This is the reason I suggest finding the hockey puck. Reed vise jaws were forge welded into place during the manufacturing process and not held in with pins (like Charles Parker was for example). Any pins present are probably from a modification done by a previous owner. Perhaps to accomodate a set of smooth or soft jaws. If the vise has been modified, I would pass on it unless its real cheap.
Note the Colombian body and nut are ductile iron not cast grey iron, also yours is missing a brass backed thrust washer which was standard. Great video though
Thank you. The little Columbian vise has served me well.
Nice job on the vise’s.
Thank's Randy. I really enjoyed your video on the Delta repulsion motor.
@@BencoVintageMachineWorks thanks, Came over from ScoutCrafter.
@@RRINTHESHOP John is a great guy. If you get some time, I have a video on the restoration of a 2HP Century repulsion start induction run motor that you will appreciate.
Scoutcrafter sent me to say hi and offer well wishes...
Scoutcrafter is a good friend. Thank you for checking out the channel and for your well wishes. Much appreciated.
Good Morning. Appreciate your video. Now, I have a new passion of restoring an old Reed 402-1/2 vise that's been in my family for many many years. Recently the "collar" under the front of the vise which the shaft runs through cracked and broke. It has a threaded hole which has a set screw. Any Idea of where I can find one. Thank you for the help!!
The collar comes "broken in half" from the factory. Its not broken (they made it like that on purpose) just fit the two pieces together and screw it in....
@@BencoVintageMachineWorks Thanks for the reply. This collar is clearly broken in 3 pieces. TY
Ok thats different. You can probably repair it yourself because its not under any pressure really once its screwed in. Otherwise ebay will probably have one eventually. Good luck!
Is there a distinction between bench vise and stand vice? I ask because it occurred to me that either type vice could be mounted on either base. Does it have to do with the type of vice or have I misunderstood something?
Rigidity and space are the main issues presented if you are lucky enough to acquire a large vise.
I suppose if your bench was big enough and sturdy enough, you could mount a big vise on it (a large steel welding table for example).
@@BencoVintageMachineWorks so size and weight are the main factors, I see lol. that makes a lot of sense, thank you.
@roysnider3456 Thank you for checking out the video. There is a part 2 if you are interested.
I’m no vise authority so I try to learn. What do you think of C.Parker USA Meriden CT ? Clamp strength is the true test of a great vise. If you can clamp them down with little effort. Maybe someday, someone will test clamping force of various USA vises. Thanks. I’ll check out the Reed. Old Reed.
Charles Parker made excellent vises and many people (including me) love them. That being said, there's more to vise build quality than just clamping force. If you find yourself constantly working at the limits of your vise, something else is wrong. There is a video by Fireball Tool on youtube where he tests some various vises clamping to failure point. Good luck in finding a Reed R series, you will not be disappointed. Thanks for checking out the video.
@@BencoVintageMachineWorks awesome. Thank you so much. Where can I read up on Reed vises? I’d like to do some research. Is the R203 a good vise?
@@emiliog.4432 The 203R is a swivel base model. I prefer stationary vises unless you really need the swivel feature. Make sure it has the flat nose and the oil ports on the side. You can't go wrong with a vintage Reed vise.
Sorry to hea about the dtorm damace. I have one question. What so you think is the best grease to use on the ways?
Thank you for thinking of us. Grease technology has come a long way in the past 20 years and modern synthetic greases perform the best. They are less prone to breaking down over time. At the moment, I have a can of Valvoline full synthetic grease on hand but any of the other major brands should prove satisfactory for a bench vise.
,1940s vises got cheap with cast iron
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Didn't Boston machine make bench vises
I will check them out. Thanks for the heads up.
You obviously have too many vises. I'll give you $75 for the reed vise.
JK, not really
That Reed was definitely a good prices. Vises are one of those things that I really don't need but if its cheap I buy it. Wooden machinist chests too...
Today Wilton’s SUCK
I only own the old ones but the testing done by Fireball tool seems to confirm what you say
He died and she sold off his tools. I swear woman you'd better bury me with them or I'm climbing out of that hole......
Exactly. I felt a little sorry for the lady because this guy had a fairly large collection and she was up there in age herself.
I have a hollands 104 1/2 in rough shape. It not stationary. The mounting base is broken in half. I am well versed in metal work. Just curious if I should fix and restore for personal use. Or sell to a collector as is.
I would braze it back together and use it. Most collectors would not be interested in a damaged or repaired vise. That being said, a Hollands is a great daily user and I own several of them.
Nice !!!! 👍
i have a very old Prentiss vise (from my grandfather, next my father and finaly me 😀). It's a a model 19 1/2 and recentally complete restored. I still use it almost every day.
kind regards from Belgium (Europe)
I like those old Prentiss vises and I would never sell mine. I recently posted part 2 of this video and you might enjoy it. Kind Regards.
Home Depot fellas are you watchin
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Yea I've got a couple REED 105s mounted on a dual stand... I like them a lot but honestly I've got a 805 Charles Parker that's about 50 pounds heavier and way more stout. I The oldest one I have is Howard Iron Works 4.5 incher...It's built the absolute best. But Yost made a very nice vice as well, got a 203 & 204. The Ridge Tool Co made a Beast of the vise called the SIMPLEX 46, it was the first vise I ever owned.
Thanks for commenting on the video. I have never owned a Howard Iron Works vise but they look nicely made. When I get around to making the part 2 of this video, I will take apart a Parker for comparison.
@JasonGrace1 You can take apart the CP and just compare the design to the Reed R shown here. I love my CP vise and would never sell it but its no Reed R series in terms of build design. Weight is important but not the only indication of a quality build and, more importantly, a well designed vise.
I have seen those before and actually looked at buying one. I passed on the one I looked at because it was somewhat sloppy in the action and there wasn't much of a precision "feel" when clamping. They are massive and, if you work in a railyard or shipyard, appropriate.
I think looking at the nuts and bolts design is important because it shows you how much effort was put into, not only the size, but the engineering and ease of maintenance.
Your average user will never need something more massive than a 5 inch, 75lb vise and will get more practical benefit from the ease of lubrication maintenance and the ability to take the slop out of it which will keep it feeling more precise longer. Many jobs require a precise feel when clamping (otherwise, everyone would just buy 8" vises and be done with it).
Maybe you can make a video on your CP. Would love to see it taken apart.
Very informative. Thanks for posting. I have a few of these vises and I like to clean them up and fix them up if possible. I just picked up and Athol 616 and I really can't believe the beating this thing has clearly taken and still functions. I look forward to seeing a piece on the Athol and Wilton vises.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Old Starret are super Cool too.. 👍
Yes, definitely like everything Starrett
Terry, Excellent video and explanation of these three Vise manufactures. Those Reed R series vices are built like a tank! Hoping you and your Family are recovering from the Storm and you are in your new Home. I look forward to your video on the Athol/Starrett Vises as I just picked up a 924 and appreciate it's build quality. Take care.
Thank you. We have moved into a new home and, fortunately, I will have a garage to set up a nice workshop. Looking forward to making videos again in the not too distant future.
If you do projects you cannot be without one
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tHanks for an excellent video. I just picked up a Reed vise a little over a week ago. It was at an estate sale and it was only by chance that I added it to the things I was buying. Now I'm realizing it may have been one of the best purchases of the summer.
A vintage Reed vise will not let you down. Congratulations on getting one.
tHank you very much. I was watching how a bent handle was repaired with a torch and ...well, another vise. It was fairly amazing to me...I don't weld nor heat.....I'm just barely talented enough to drill.
This one may stay as is for the time being. I think I'm lucky to have come across it.
tHanks for the great videos!
@@BencoVintageMachineWorks
Not acme but square threads though..
Yes that is correct about the threads. I updated the description shortly after uploading the video when I realized the mistake.
Parker vises are my #1
I love them too. When I get around to making part 2 of this video, I will be including a Parker for comparison.
Terry, another great learning experience! I'm still shocked though. Has anything been recovered?
Yes the Columbian vise survived and I plan to upload a video on it shortly. The other two were not in the house at the time.
@@BencoVintageMachineWorks that's great! Were any of your motors and machines recovered? I'm watching the motor resto videos now just like "dang, I hope that survived!"
@@ForestWoodworks Fortunately all my electric motors survived because they were in my storage room and not in the house. I am hoping that the work I did after the storm cleaning the tools will pay off.
@@BencoVintageMachineWorks I'm relieved! I know the house was a loss, which is still awful. I'm just glad your work survived!
And one for old time sake (lol) you think I'm good going with 14ga on my motor? I've measured the original lead, and they def appear to be 14ga. I'll be (eventually) running this on 220. But I'm starting over and resoldering the leads once I get the order from tons this week because I need every piece of space I can recoup to even get the stator housing beck on.
@@ForestWoodworks If you measured the originals to be 14ga then should be good to go. Using too small a wire can cause them to overheat so it's always good to check a wire gauge chart just to be sure.