Here’s the list of products reviewed. More details in the video description. Thank you! Heuer: amzn.to/3A7LkHa Ridgid: amzn.to/3XahqvR Yost: amzn.to/3trowOK Wilton: amzn.to/3O2TiHc Baileigh: amzn.to/3UUoLxE Irwin: amzn.to/3NZiWfX Forward: amzn.to/3fYghqc Central Forge: Available at Harbor Freight Olympia: amzn.to/3g38szE Myoyay: amzn.to/3tmOdQy
I've made a few smart purchases and many smart non-purchases because of your tests. You are definitely the go to guy for honest tool reviews in real world situations.
I had to get some new impact Philips bits last week, I remembered watching the video but forgot which ones to go with. A few minutes later I made my purchase!
I have to say... I have sat in the parking lot at the big box store watching PF videos to help decide which tool I was going to walk in and buy! Thank you for all the amazing hard work you put into each video!
So many of us enjoy Project Farms videos, but few of us realize how much money, time, effort, careful thought and deliberation go into making each of these videos! These aren't quick easy tests by any stretch of the imagination. Sincere and profound thanks to our host, Todd, for saving us all a ton of time, money and frustration from buying crap tools! Cheers, Todd, you're simply fantastic!
I think he gets a kick out of these test, and just started recording one day. His "i wonder if" became "tool porn" for us. I've used flex seal myself, but never built a running engine with no bolts at all!.
One my biggest takeaways was how the Central Forge finished so close to its average in each individual placing, i.e. no major outlier finishes. This suggests some pretty solid consistency at almost all the tests. Not bad at all for a budget vice, probably a solid choice for most small-shop situations. Great stuff Todd, then again it's ALWAYS great stuff.
I have the smaller CF vice, for my home shop (that I have yet to re-build after moving, lol) and have been pretty happy with it, especially after disabling it and giving her a proper lube job. My only complaint is because of my own damn fault, I lost a part that kept the jaw from coming completely out!
Like most HF gear I would not want to run a business with it but for home garage types and do it yourselfers most of it is a solid value and will get the job done.
I'll never buy a precision tool from HF like squares, and I'll always research a power tool from them first, but for everything else it's cheap and gets the job done, and there's even some real gems. You can always buy something from HF and if you break it down then line then you know to spend the money on the good stuff.
Real world take on the central forge is that it holds up well over time. I do a ton of metal work for old cars and have had that vice on my bench for about 5 years. It’s taken a beating and I have no complaints.
@@bixby9797 agreed, harbor freight generally makes products with the philosophies of either making something so cheap that it cant really be bad, average for a good price, or just flat out good but not quite as nice as more expensive options the former 2 are very nice for when you think you need a new tool, if you use especially the "average" tool a lot, then you can buy something better, if you dont use it much, who cares, it wasnt very expensive
Project Farm has become the benchmark, for which all the other tool reviewer videos are judged. Nobody does it as well. A few come close. But the majority fall far short. You've mastered the art of this media platform. 👍 In regard to the vices, I spun the cylinder, and pulled the trigger on Horror Freight's Central Forge, in 2019, when they still had the 20% off coupons. Cost me less than $50. All I can say is I'm glad I did. Timex would be proud to put their name on this vice. It has taken a thrashing so severely in the last 2 1/2 years, that i've now repainted it twice. It's currently British racing green. If you get this vice, you probably won't be disappointed. One plus for this vice is that the jaws are secured by recessed, hex head (Allen) screws. The negative is that HF doesn't sell replacement jaws, nor do they sell an optional smooth faced set, for "mar free" clamping. I often use it for wood working, and the factory jaws do a number on anything soft they clamp down on. So I went to Wally World and bought one of those 1/2" thick, white, nylon/plastic cutting boards, and made multiple sets of "soft jaws" out of it, for the vice. The board thickness was perfect for this. No more diamond patterns embossed into my work pieces. 👍 Also, if mounting this vice onto a plywood work bench top (especially any top less than 3/4" thickness), I highly recommend using a section of plate steel under it, due to it only being a "3 hole" design. Once torqued down, it is rock solid. Vice Mounting 101 - "Pro Tip" for first time vice owners. When mounting, (ie..BEFORE you drill the holes in your bench top, and plate!), make sure that the inner face of the REAR jaw on your vice, is at least 1", to 1.5" FORWARD of (ie..clears it, by), the edge of your work bench! If it does not, then you will NEVER be able to secure any work piece south of the jaws, longer than 6.5", or so. Don't ask me how I know this. 😂
This is one guy that can destroy stuff and be loved by all for doing it! His tests are always eye-openers. It would have been nice to have had an old American vise in the test to see how well it would have held up. Thanks Todd for sharing your time and talents with us.
I have one of those huge, great American vises made for Craftsman back in the day. The LAST thing we need to see are some of those great old vises destroyed. There will never be anymore made like those.
Check out Fireball Tool, he made a vise video awhile back that's definitely worth watching. Even custom fabricated a vise of his own design to improve on the weak points of other vises.
Gotta say, I'm incredibly impressed not only with the comprehensive nature of your testing but how wholesome this community of informed buyers you've helped create. been watching a long time and definitely wont stop. keep up the great work!
We Germans don't take pride in many things, but one of the few things were out pride is at it's highest is build quality. Awsome review, keep them coming.
I had that exact Irwin vise break while pressing an upper shock bearing in. I got lucky as everything broke. I replaced it with a Wilton 1765 about 4 years ago. It is one of my favorite tools in the shop and should be a lifelong piece. Thank you for your time on this test.
I also have a 1765 Wilton, bought in 2017 and made in USA. It's unfortunate that Wilton has moved the production of the Bullet line of vices overseas. One of these USA Wilton Bullets surely would have been #1 in this test. They're heirloom quality.
I was seriously impressed with the harbor freight central forge vise in this test. I had avoided them for so long because I heard they were brittle and quick to break, but this video tells an entirely different tale!
I have the 6 inch rotatable one with the pipe clamp on the under side and a 6” host at work. The model numbers make a difference as well. Happy with both vises honestly.
Harbor Freight has stepped up it's game. Checkout the video review of their 3 ton jack stands. Their stands had been recalled over safety issues. The new stands are top notch. I almost want to sell my current 6 ton stands and buy a pair of theirs.
As someone who is going to be building and buying my own garage shop, and home maintenance place your channel is (and has always been) the best for helping me decide what to buy! You have helped me more then you'll ever know! And this episode is no different! Thank you for all of your work!
if you want to know about batt tools. indepth,,watch ave / boltr. makita, is still the best.. but like all tools, you have to pik & shovel, [ choose ]..very few manufacturers make,oversea, there own tools, makita, is 1 of maybe 4 that do..
I know everyone wants to see the Fireball Hardtail in this test, but unfortunately it wouldn’t be a fair fight. The Hardtail is in a different weight class 270lbs and price point. For example the Hardtail’s handle starts to bend at 40,000lbs.
Hardware store vices really are in a different class than a big vice like the FBT Hardtail. Can't wait till the pre-orders start flowing again so I can finally get mine 😁
There's also the little matter that the Fireball Tool vise doesn't exist. There's five positive reviews of the Fireball vise on its website but so far none have been delivered to customers, what a scam 😂
Great tests! As someone who has broken a couple of vises at least than opportune moments, it looks like it might be fun breaking one for science. Speaking of science, I always enjoy seeing the clever test rigs you come up with to produce repeatable and fair data across all the devices you're comparing.
The only complaint I have is tiny, but during the hammer test, all the pieces being hammered were at different lengths in the vices. Those different lengths would make a massive difference in force applied to the jaws. Otherwise, very comprehensive and well thought out testing sir!
"Bent right out of the box". Too funny. More than likely someone bought it, used it, and returned it. Seen it many times before. Love the torture tests. Thank you for another fantastic testing video!
It's awesome to see the test rigs that you come up with to perform your testing with. You really put a lot of effort into your videos! Also nice upgrade in the testing equipment. You do great with educating a lot of buyers out there.
I absolutely love how you get the information out there nice and quick, it's a load of information at the speed of which we understand and the speed of which we like to watch, you are doing such an amazing job and I'm such a proud subscriber of project farm
YES! A vise is one of those things that I've always been told not to cheap out on, looking forward to seeing if a higher price really means better quality!
I was also told that. And yet, the two afordable prise ones (Forge & Foward) out performe some of the more expensive ones🤯 ..I got the foward dual jaws.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. You run an amazing channel and provide such important information. The detail you go through alone to ensure fair and accurate testing is bar none. I applaud you good sir. Thank you.
I've had the Fireball Tool 5 inch vise for awhile now and it has lasted through everything I have done with it. The big selling point is the base being designed for welding tables that have 5/8 holes spaced 2 inches apart, which meant that I was able to take it out of the box and bolt it to my table and it can be moved to any position on the table. It would be a good one to include if you ever do a round 2 of testing.
Outstanding tests! As a German I didn't hesitate to get me a true HEUER vise a few years ago. They are a LOT cheaper here than in the US but of course still way more expensive than some Chinese cast iron vises. I got the "160"-model, i.e. one size up from what was tested here, and I paid about 1/2 the price shown here. And I didn't regret it a single day! 😃
Wirklich? don’t you have proper hardware stores in Germany anymore ? Cross the border, you can buy them everywhere in the Netherlands, even in the small town I live (Zwolle) are like 5 stores that sell several models.
As a fellow German. Heuer, Leinen, Ridgid/peddinghaus are all good with different strenghts and weaknesses. also any English or German made that survied 50years are usually good for another 50.
Got Heuers in our workshop, they are installed since 30 years, they got welding marks, angle grinder cuts and slightly bent handles, but they still work perfectly. And considering that here in Germany the 140mm(8inch of span) just cost 190€, it's a good value.
Yup. They seem to be dummy expensive in the states. I got my 140 mm with replaceable jaws shipped from Germany for a little over 200 € if I remember correctly. Haven't regretted that purchase a day since. It's a joy to use and will most certainly outlast me.
@@blarfroer8066 Seems unfair given in the UK I bought a pair of Irwin 'Vise grips' for less than £20 (less than $25 USD). They're awesome too! I've beat on them for a year now and they're still going strong and then some!
I do not have any needs for a bench vise but I’m addicted to your non biased views and fair tests! Thanks for all the videos you have put up! Made some smart purchases as an auto tech thanks to your thorough reviews!
I don't need to buy a vise, but as soon as I saw this video by Project Farm testing some, I had to watch it! That's how good this channel is! Thanks for sharing.
I really love these tests, please never stop testing equipment! This information is invaluable. Side note: I'm a huge fan of Harbor Freight and their tools for their value/quality proposition. They never cease to amaze.
I got a Doyle vise @harbor freight w the 25% off coupon 3 wks ago. (Central machinery items were excluded from the coupon). It seems to be built like a tank, ductile iron and claims 7700lbs clamp force. I would’ve loved to see how it stacks up so I can feel good or bad about my purchase too 😂
Nice test, and good information. One bench vise I would recommend is the Fireball tools hardtail model. It's made in USA, and he also did a test of vises, and his definitely survived. His is available with deposit for preorder, which might help explain that it's handmade. I would mention that Wilton does make some professional vise's in USA.
I was at the Fabtech show in Atlanta this past week and meet Jason from Fireball. They had the Fireball vise for sale $5800.00. I have their welding squares but cannot justify that much for a vise.
Agree on Wilton. Would love to have seen one of their better vises versus that Chinese consumer grade one. I have a smaller bullet from the 50's as well as a somewhat newer tradesman 6".
I bought my Larin 5" vise years and years ago from Costco. This thing has been through hell and back, been pounded on over and over with a sledge hammer and is still a workhorse. Thank you Todd for another amazing video on this chilly Sunday afternoon.
I have seen many of his videos and I like how he tries to intervene as little as possible and with as few variables as possible, being as technical and easy to understand at the same time.
I know they are considerably more expensive; but I’d like to see a similar test between the higher end vices. Especially the USA made Wilton and it’s counterparts. Great video as always!
@@KennyInVegas Same here,I have my Dad's 5 inch bullet. Scored a beat up 4 inch and rebuilt it for my son. There's a guy on ebay that has brand new jaws. I also got the correct swivel base from him. Made an extra long handle out of a 15 inch 1/2" socket extension.
Nice Video, I'm from germany and own a Heuer Vise with replaceable jaws and a swiveling base, it cost me arround 250€, that our german tools are so expensive in america is always shocking to me :/ But I always love it when someone like you tests those tools against your brands, good work!
Wow, very impressive tests! I would have been a bit scared during that last test. The Crentral forge impressed me too. I wonder how the new HF Doyle line of vices would compare.
I have the 6 inch Doyle and it’s a beast. But of coarse I don’t use this hard. But for a vice for automotive work it’s hard to beat for the money. Just my 2 cents.
Yeah, I was hoping the bigger Doyle would be included on this test! I'm very happy with the one I picked up a few months ago with a 'no exclusions' 25% off discount. Would like to know how it sized up in this test..
@@manunava1776 Yeah, I have the 5" Doyle and I really like it but it's a slightly different design/style from the 4" & '6" versions. I'm very interested in seeing how the 6" version would fare in these tests. I have to say I'm quite surprised how the HF Central Forge vise performed overall as I always perceived them to be borderline junk.
I've broke 4 bench vises over the years. The one I have now is an old one from I believe the 70s era and it is built like a tank. If by some chance I manage to break it (wasn't a high end vise from what I've researched) I'll definitely shell out for the expensive "unbreakable" one. When using a vise I want it to be as strong as possible because I expect a lot from it. Thanks for another good comparison video.
I agree. I have a Record engineer's bench vice from the '30s/'40s that was passed down through the family plus a '50s Record woodworker's bench vice that I found on Ebay. Both from the days when Record actually made Record vices. If either of them nreaks I'd search for an equivalent 2nd-hand replacement rather than pay the bucks for a modern one.
We have about 15 Heuer vises at our (European) metalworking shop. They really are indestructible. A lot of them are older than any of the employees and they display no wear at all. I have never seen one break, and that's after an unfair share of hammering, grinding, welding, and various other forms of abuse. I'm actually kind of surprised they are still in business, because we've never had to buy a new one either (that I remember).
Dang, i was actually thinking the Irwin would be a good choice for the price. Then again this whole video i was thinking, I've used some unbelievably nice old vices but never really stressed them. You got a good point, now I'm thinking of just getting a good old used one and it should outlast even "good" new ones
Perfect timing on this video. Just today I was looking at a few small vise for my portable workbench and was not really even putting Central Forge into my options for consideration, and now I am kind of leaning that way.
i ended up buying 2 5-1/2" wilton vises and ive been perfectly happy so far with them. They retailed for like $130, but the local napa accidentally bought an entire pallet extra so they put them on sale for $80 each.
There's a vice from Fireball tool that I really want to get, mainly to keep in the truck since it doubles as a jack. I know they did a fair bit of testing already on their channel, but I'd love to see what you could come up with to maybe push it to failure. Also I'm very impressed with the Central Forge, gonna have to keep this in mind when I build a new bench
I have the larger Central Forge (HF) vice with the swivel head and bottom pipe clamp. It works really well holding 1.5 inch iron pipe. However, the vice's iron is soft and I striped out the original lock screw on day 1. I tapped the stripped hole for a much larger screw and it has been holding up well for several years now.
Todd is KING regarding in depth tools, oils, adhesives,etc., testing, including dreadful torture tests that give goose bumps to manufacturers / importers. Todd's actually THE worldwide honest referent reagarding the above & my go-to shopping advisor. Not enough words to say 'Thank You' to Todd & his dedicated work in his own awsome category!!.. 🇺🇸🙏🙏🙏
Great work as always! A video on top Harbor Freight tools you've tested would be an interesting video. Maybe some filler material for a week where you are taking it easy :)
I have a brockhaus heuer 140 here in the Netherlnds. They are a lot cheaper here around 215,- euro. The play off the jaw is adjustable by tightening the bolt on de side of the base of the brockhaus. Can't wait till next week's video i like them a lot!
The best vice is the one that your grandad had. This is a perfect example of a tool that “they just don’t make like they used to”. I’ve got a Record vice made in Sheffield that is around 70 years old and spent 50 years in a blacksmith’s shop at a coal mine. It’s barely got a scratch on it.
Record can be crazy high quality, that brand made vises when Britain was an empire. If it says "Record STEEL" on it, that's a cast steel vise that almost no other brand ever made. Heuer is forged steel which is nice and theoretically better, but the cast steel Record is just so much thicker that it's just waaay stronger. They had numbers designating what it was made for, for example the no.35 was their top of the line engineer vise made from steel or nodular (ductile) cast iron, that would cost over 1000$ if made nowadays (like the top end Wilton Bullet vises or a Swiss Gressel). But the most amazing was the Record 518 "Heavy Chipping STEEL" vise, a cast steel behemoth so heavy that it would crush most regular workbenches...
@@jpikl1284 Looking at pictures of the vice you mentioned. I noticed that it gives the model number as "518 1/2". I suppose that 1/2 makes all the difference!
You won’t be buying another one if the first one you bought lasts forever. It’s fucked up, but it’s what happens when you combine capitalism with corruption.
About 50 plus years ago I inherited a vice from my father. I have used it hundreds of times and am amazed it has never disappointed. The jaw is 4" wide and can open up to a usable approx. 8". The vise embossed markings are: (right side) THE CHAS. PARKER CO. MERIDAN, CT. USA , (LEFT SIDE) SEMI-STEEL, SOLID BAR, PATENTED, JAN. 2 1806, NOV. 22 1810 , NO. 239X I enjoy all of your testing. Very useful, Don't ever stop Todd!!
I have 2 of the Central Forge vises in my shop. One is about 3 years old and the other 2. No problems with either yet. I'm not abusively hard on them but they do get a lot of use. I do a lot of welding and metal work. Thanks for another very informative test.
I see round two coming for vises 😁 Perhaps Fireball tool, Capri tools, and Doyle could be making an appearance then?! Wow, unbreakable indeed! Very impressive, Heuer! What a surprise that the Harbor Freight and Forward vises performed better than I had anticipated. For budget vises under 100 bucks, not bad at all. Thanks again PF!
@@TheDeathM that’s what I’ve been saying, my only vice is a 40-50 pounder from like the 50s or 60s and other then lugging it around because I don’t have it mounted it’s great for a vise I got for free
@@gus473 I have an old 6" Craftsman (USA) vise that I have abused for decades! When vise manufacturers farmed out production to the CCP we all know what happened.
I really enjoy seeing the improvised testing tools and equipment. The depth gauge setup was nicely played and I really enjoyed the socket with the cross bolt. I was not understanding how a hex was driving them until closer inspection. The seemingly simple ones are always the most pleasing. Very brave to take them to failure like that and really interesting to see the differences in how they each (nearly each) failed.
A vise is one of those critical tools that I'd take a horrible wooden one over no vise at all! Very impressed with the Harbor Freight one. I use an old Wilton bullet vise in my shop, it's never let me down. Sad to see the modern Wilton do so poorly. I put some copper jaws on mine, now there's little that can escape its grasp! Thanks for all you do!
These are light duty vices. For holding something for filing, hack-sawing or something similar, most of them would function well enough to get the job done.
Wilton have both Chinese and USA made vises. The USA ones are top notch. I wouldn’t buy any Chinese vise. Edit: Since I bought my USA made 1755 Tradesman, in 2017, they are now made in Taiwan. So I have no idea what’s going on at Wilton, if they make anything in the USA or not.
If you look at the Wilton and Yost catalogs you will see that they sell vices of much higher quality than the ones in the test...some of which are Made In USA. If you think that $500 German vice is expensive, hold on to your lug nuts! It would have been eye-opening to see one of these in the test but it's easy to spend someone else's $$$. Anyway, the test really shows how vices people like me can afford (or even need) stacked up against each other. Thanks again Project Farm!!!👍
Awesome tests as always! I don't feel as bad about going with the Harbor Freight vice over a Wilton 2 years ago when I needed a cheap vice in a pinch! Like others said, Doyle would be a great contender for the next test.
Bought a Forward three days ago, saw this video today (5/23/2024) and now I feel reasonably good about my purchase ! Thanks for the time and effort making these videos.
Great video as always! I know you’ve done reciprocating saw tests in the past, but have you considered testing the newer one handed “hackzall” type saws? Also testing orbital reciprocating saws would be awesome. I appreciate all the hard work you put into your videos, and I can’t wait to see what’s next in store!
Nice comparison! Problem with cheap vises is that they use cast iron. Vise like the Heuer Front use forged steel, which is a lot stronger but comes with higher price. In Europe the model you tested sells for only 200€ and interchangeable jaws version goes for 250€. I have the interchangeable version and I love it.
I’ve have a HF vice I bought over 15 years ago, and I’ll bet I didn’t pay more than $30. Never failed yet. If I replace it, I’ll definitely buy one with a pipe jaw as I could have used it many times. Great review, and you always amaze me with the various tests you come up with.
Here you are 3.3 million subs, and you’re STILL a man listening to his audience for feedback and ideas. You’re like If Consumer Reports books was unbiased and had scientific testing. You are great at coming up with ways to test, and deserve all the success you have. 🍻 Happy to be a subscriber
It's disappointing how many name brand vices performance poorly. This is one of your most interesting videos yet, and very thorough testing. If manufacturers ever respond to your tests, that in itself would be an interesting video topic!
Ductile iron is not the same as cast iron. They are both cast, but one is very similar to steel in composition. All cheap vises are the bottom of the barrel cast iron, like the majority of the cheaper vises in this video. A high quality cast ductile iron vise, like a US made Wilton, older Wilton, Columbian, and most of the older high quality vises are just as strong as a forged steel vise, especially if that forged steel is Chinese.
@@BryceKimball7.3 I don't think you read my comment clearly. I stated ductile cast iron which is the bottom of the barrel and I will definitely disagree with your opinions. wilton bullet vises (ductile steel) are the fantastic, but there's several forged vises that are equally as good on the market nowadays. The weak link is majority of swivel bases. A good wilton bullet vise will cost you much more than a good forged vise and most diy people will never need anything more. Just to summarize the cheap vises usually market as ductile cast iron and they are not as good as forged wilton hardly even makes a usa made vise neither does Columbia ect. Forged or a old vise is your best option.
Would have loved to see Harbor Freight's Doyle line of vice included as well as they are supposed to be their better line. Great work overall! Love the channel.
I picked up a Yost 460 vice a few years ago at a local pawn shop for $30. This vice is a beast and performed very well. I have only good things to say about this vice. It was old when I bought it and keeps working for me . I recommend this vice for long term reliability.
I've always been leery of buying the central forge vise because harbor freight doesn't have that great of a track record. It's nice to see how well it did. When I do get around to buying a vise it will probably be the central forge. Thanks for all the non-bias product testing that you do! It is very much appreciated.
As is so common with HF, a lot of things are total crap... but there are a lot of things that are very great values. The main caveat emptor, is consistency. You have a decent chance of getting a really good vise there. But, you also have a decent chance of getting one that is crap, with horrible defects that would cause it to be last in most tests. The thing that makes it so intriguing, is they are so cheap, that its worth the dice roll, that you might get a good one. I've been playing Harbor Freight roulette for decades.... lol. It can be fun!
Project Farm never disappoints and somehow always knows what tests I want to see before I do. I bought a Ktool 8” steel monster for $180 recently. It’s sloppy beyond description, but is massive and has a huge anvil which aligns well with my needs (for example I rebuilt a driveshaft and used it in bending a bunch of rebar during the past week). That heuer vice looks amazing… but I’d be scared of scratching a $500 vice.
Definitely. He's helped me realize that sometimes getting the HF or other low-budget/low-end tool and simply modding or lubing it is a viable option. And he's reaffirmed my and am sure many other guys' beliefs that sending on one's needs, we're just better off buying an expensive and good high-quality tool.
I think my favorite part is that you don't verbally bash any item you test. You just give us your test results and your opinion, then allow us to pick. For me, it's money that is very limiting so you are amazing.
I love your work @Project Farm. One improvement I would have done is to secure the vices to the table before doing the drop tests on the anvil surface. It better recreates the real world conditions when the anvil would be used. Thank you.
Great video as always! One thing to note about your hammer blow test: by far the biggest factor that was not controlled for was the distance away from the jaws the blow was hitting. Since you are torquing the whole vice, the jaws act like the pivot point and the further away from those jaws the blow lands the more torque is applied vs the closer to the jaws it hits the force is more "backward" and directly in line with the rear jaw. Each vice's different jaw hight from the base was probably a much bigger factor than anything else. I.e. a short or low profile vice had a larger amount of steel cantilevered out to the point of impact. The longer the lever arm was from the jaws, the more leverage it had to torque the jaws and body. For example at 12:15 the Yost is really tall, so the weight is impacting only about an inch away from the jaws. A very short lever. Then at 12:29 the Ridgid is very short and weight is impacting much further from the jaws, maybe 4 or 5 inches away. The length of the lever arm is applying much more tangential torque compared to more linear impact force of the Yost.
Thank you again for another thorough product evaluation. Whether viewers are seeking the best value or the most robust vise, your testing will guide them to right choice. You are an amazing product tester.
I would love to see how these vises stack up compared to the old models like a Wilton "bullet vise" and such. Even at the collector type prices those can fetch second-hand, I bet they perform just as well if not better than today's new offerings, making the old ones still a good value.
Yeah, same as a new Wilton Bullet, not the cheap ones... But those are 500$+ vises... In truth the Heuer is a 200$ vise in Germany, the price in the USA is just bloated beyond reason (same as e.g. tools from PB Swiss or Wera, those are half or third of the cost in Germany). Morgan makes new made-in-USA ductile iron vises too, possibly even better than a Wilton Bullet. The Czech York (original Bullet vise manufacturer, Wilton is a bit of a rip-off) would be nice to compare too (I think regular lamellar cast iron as most on this test, but really well made and designed). Also, top end German vises like a Leinen, Schlegel EMF or a Swiss Gressel would be nice to see in the comparison. Australian Dawn vises are also extremelly well made and have an interesting offset design. Also ductile steel... And the big Heuer for a comparison (180mm version).
@@jpikl1284 You know your vises. Dawn is very well regarded in Australia. They have regular vises as well as offset vises. It would be great to see a test of all these vises, and the Fireball Tool vise as well. Postage on all of them to Todd's workshop would be quite expensive!
Love this video! I've always wondered about cheap vs expensive vises. So thorough as always! I don't go to google or amazon for tool reviews anymore. I go here! Would love to see another boot comparison follow up to the one you did last year, but this time including $500+ dollar boots. 👍
At 12:15 the vertical drop is hitting the Yost only an inch from the jaws, applying far less torque than for similar blows at 11:30 or 10:08. Unfortunately that means the Yost didn't get the same test the other vices did. But other than that error, it was a great test and very helpful!
I also wonder how much the handle length affected the clamping force readings. At 90 degrees, torque equals force times distance. So he was actually applying MORE torque with the longer handles, yet still getting lower clamping force.
Awesome test as always! Would love to see a round 2 with the harbor freight Doyle brand included as they look to be a big upgrade from the central forge.
I’ve got one, and upgraded it with a thrust bearing (thanks for the idea, fireball tool) and it’s easily the best vise I’ve ever owned. Definitely second this idea.
@@AToolWithTools nope, its mostly luck that a 20x38mm thrust bearing fits almost perfectly in the handle housing. I can hang off the end of the handle and still loosen it with a finger.
This is a great testing video! I have a Brockhaus Heuer 140 for 2 years now, it never disappointed me and it’s my favorite tool ever bought😊 Greetings from the Netherlands
Maybe... Todd was "gonna test that" regarding the ratchet's unbreakability at the same time for another video? Also the man's never failed to impress with all the things he's tested in his videos! Just when I think "Hey, maybe its time to replace / get a " Todd's already got pretty much what I'm looking for on video already somewhere. Thanks for all the excellent work over the years! Saved me and many others lots of time and money to find products that work for our needs (and wallets).
I’ve used and broken a few cheap vises and have a good idea what to avoid! As mentioned, it would be nice to test an old vise to see how it compares (but it would be sad to test to failure). Thanks again for the great custom test jigs, data points and testing standards!
The USA made Wilton vice I have is a Wilton Bullet and is approximately 50 years old. It’s old but doesn’t have the slop and backlash like the vises destroyed in the video.
I was hoping to see a Wilton bullet vise in this test I've got one 40ish years old excellent vise. Another great impartial real world tool review, thanks.
Thanks Project Farm for a great series of tests!! Very informative!! Having been around a few times when vises break, your tests give a very comprehensive look at vise quality.
Fireball tool on youtube ran through a few vice failures in his development of the perfect vice. It exists in a different price bracket and is geared more to fabricators and is absolutely massive. It is a very cool video that would be worth a watch after finishing this video for those interested. Thanks for spending the time to put these videos together. I can really appreciate the time it takes to put a video together. You uncover very valuable information for people. I work in a tire factory and other than the super old vices from our nearly 100 year old factory nearly all of the new stuff gets quickly destroyed.
Love this topic and would love to see a round 2! Vises are something I've always bought older made in USA stuff. I'm curious what else is even out there anymore that isn't junk.
@@debtminer4976 No kidding. I found a 1920's era massive 150lb Chas Parker 375 on local classified for $40. I've bought, restored and given away a few 70's era 6" Record mechanics vices that will outlast any of these.
Always enjoy your videos. A vise test definitely peaked my interest. However, when I need a vise I buy old USA. You can find old ductile steel 60k+ psi for $100. Keep up the great work. Love the tools you use to do the tests too!
I've been pretty pleased with my Central Forge vise. Harbor Freight is a hit and miss and I tend not to buy too many things from them anymore, but this thing has been doing just fine.
Hello BK. You are right about HF being hit or miss. I have a 6" HF Chicago Electric Bench Grinder I purchased 26 years ago and it is still going strong. I believe I paid $29 or $39.
I always enjoy your tests. But this one is one of my favorites. I’ve been contemplating on getting one. Now that I know Harbor Freight has a decent one, I think I’ll be getting one from there.
I have one. It’s decent. Gets used but not abused and it’s holding up just fine. I went with HF because I don’t have any indoor work space so the thing lives outside. I couldn’t justify anything over $100 if it is eventually going to die from the elements.
I bought the Heuer vise 100 based on your video. It's being sent straight from Germany. I paid 230+ shipping. This may seem high price but for a forged steel vise of such quality I think its a great price,,, thank you for helping me make my happy decision
Fireball tool has already tested their vise, it would completely destroy any of these. Not to mention, it’s a whole lot larger. Unless you’re not talking about the USA made one they’re coming out with. If you’re talking about the forged steel one, it’s just a rebranded yost vise.
The Brockhaus Heuer is also available WITH replacable jaws. And in different widths, of course. If is has play in the slide, it can be adjusted to 0 with the middle screw. Great vise!
Just picked up a new 5" fixed vise the other day at Princess Auto, Canada's version of Harbor Freight, for $17 Cdn! It was on sale! lol The brand name is Shop Iron. Made in China. Looks exactly like the Central Forge you tested. Original price was $99, went down to $45, and finally to $17. They were blowing them out at that price! I wish there was a way to show you a picture of it, unfortunately there isn't.
I love the way you present information in these videos. Fast without being overwhelming. Also, genuinely helpful, I'll probably be getting an Irwin, seems a good value for the price.
I've broken 3 vices at work and was wondering how good the Doyle brand was but the Central Forge surprised me. Great video. How about a part 2 and test some others and maybe a vintage vise?
Should definitely have had something vintage. In the UK the 'Record' brand is readily available vintage for £50 - £100 depending on size, features and condition and they'll blow away everything in this test. Irwin now owns the Record brand and makes the stuff in China. It's a cruel insult to see 'Record' stickers on the crap that Irwin sells!
I was breaking 6" vise from home depot after 6" vise until 17 years ago I got a 4" Columbian 504 vise at Boeing Surplus for $50 with a workbench. I have been using it every day and no problems. I think the difference is cast iron vs cast steel.
Here’s the list of products reviewed. More details in the video description. Thank you!
Heuer: amzn.to/3A7LkHa
Ridgid: amzn.to/3XahqvR
Yost: amzn.to/3trowOK
Wilton: amzn.to/3O2TiHc
Baileigh: amzn.to/3UUoLxE
Irwin: amzn.to/3NZiWfX
Forward: amzn.to/3fYghqc
Central Forge: Available at Harbor Freight
Olympia: amzn.to/3g38szE
Myoyay: amzn.to/3tmOdQy
I've made a few smart purchases and many smart non-purchases because of your tests. You are definitely the go to guy for honest tool reviews in real world situations.
Thanks for sharing!
Yup. The first place I go is PF to see if he's done a review.
Yup, I have been at the Home Depot a few times rewatching videos to make sure I get the best bang for my buck👍
It's definitely mandatory to check his channel before buying new tools.
I had to get some new impact Philips bits last week, I remembered watching the video but forgot which ones to go with. A few minutes later I made my purchase!
I have to say... I have sat in the parking lot at the big box store watching PF videos to help decide which tool I was going to walk in and buy! Thank you for all the amazing hard work you put into each video!
Thanks and you are welcome!
Translate HF, ETC.
Same here, bro!
Yarrrbor freight
So many of us enjoy Project Farms videos, but few of us realize how much money, time, effort, careful thought and deliberation go into making each of these videos! These aren't quick easy tests by any stretch of the imagination. Sincere and profound thanks to our host, Todd, for saving us all a ton of time, money and frustration from buying crap tools! Cheers, Todd, you're simply fantastic!
Most of us realize this because there are a dozen comments just like this posted on every video
2.66 million subscribers will get you quite a bit of monetization. I’m sure the money aspect of it isn’t a factor as he makes it back many times over
I think he gets a kick out of these test, and just started recording one day. His "i wonder if" became "tool porn" for us. I've used flex seal myself, but never built a running engine with no bolts at all!.
That realisation is why most of us like his stuff so much.
Amen to that. He is an incredible human being.
The vertical drop test was brutal...and very fun to watch. Great job as always!
Thanks!
Fun but not fair as hitting point should be at te same distance from the Vice.
Yes, Todd takes no prisoners.
Its got me laughing
One my biggest takeaways was how the Central Forge finished so close to its average in each individual placing, i.e. no major outlier finishes. This suggests some pretty solid consistency at almost all the tests. Not bad at all for a budget vice, probably a solid choice for most small-shop situations. Great stuff Todd, then again it's ALWAYS great stuff.
I have the smaller CF vice, for my home shop (that I have yet to re-build after moving, lol) and have been pretty happy with it, especially after disabling it and giving her a proper lube job. My only complaint is because of my own damn fault, I lost a part that kept the jaw from coming completely out!
Like most HF gear I would not want to run a business with it but for home garage types and do it yourselfers most of it is a solid value and will get the job done.
I'll never buy a precision tool from HF like squares, and I'll always research a power tool from them first, but for everything else it's cheap and gets the job done, and there's even some real gems. You can always buy something from HF and if you break it down then line then you know to spend the money on the good stuff.
Real world take on the central forge is that it holds up well over time. I do a ton of metal work for old cars and have had that vice on my bench for about 5 years. It’s taken a beating and I have no complaints.
@@bixby9797 agreed, harbor freight generally makes products with the philosophies of either making something so cheap that it cant really be bad, average for a good price, or just flat out good but not quite as nice as more expensive options
the former 2 are very nice for when you think you need a new tool, if you use especially the "average" tool a lot, then you can buy something better, if you dont use it much, who cares, it wasnt very expensive
Project Farm has become the benchmark, for which all the other tool reviewer videos are judged. Nobody does it as well. A few come close. But the majority fall far short. You've mastered the art of this media platform. 👍
In regard to the vices, I spun the cylinder, and pulled the trigger on Horror Freight's Central Forge, in 2019, when they still had the 20% off coupons. Cost me less than $50. All I can say is I'm glad I did.
Timex would be proud to put their name on this vice. It has taken a thrashing so severely in the last 2 1/2 years, that i've now repainted it twice. It's currently British racing green. If you get this vice, you probably won't be disappointed.
One plus for this vice is that the jaws are secured by recessed, hex head (Allen) screws. The negative is that HF doesn't sell replacement jaws, nor do they sell an optional smooth faced set, for "mar free" clamping. I often use it for wood working, and the factory jaws do a number on anything soft they clamp down on. So I went to Wally World and bought one of those 1/2" thick, white, nylon/plastic cutting boards, and made multiple sets of "soft jaws" out of it, for the vice. The board thickness was perfect for this. No more diamond patterns embossed into my work pieces. 👍
Also, if mounting this vice onto a plywood work bench top (especially any top less than 3/4" thickness), I highly recommend using a section of plate steel under it, due to it only being a "3 hole" design. Once torqued down, it is rock solid.
Vice Mounting 101 - "Pro Tip" for first time vice owners. When mounting, (ie..BEFORE you drill the holes in your bench top, and plate!), make sure that the inner face of the REAR jaw on your vice, is at least 1", to 1.5" FORWARD of (ie..clears it, by), the edge of your work bench!
If it does not, then you will NEVER be able to secure any work piece south of the jaws, longer than 6.5", or so.
Don't ask me how I know this. 😂
Thanks so much!
Side note. Also be sure to mount the vice directly above a leg of the workbench and not in the middle of the table.
_clicks read more_
Gets hit with War and Peace.
_clicks show less and slowly backs away_
This is one guy that can destroy stuff and be loved by all for doing it! His tests are always eye-openers. It would have been nice to have had an old American vise in the test to see how well it would have held up. Thanks Todd for sharing your time and talents with us.
You are welcome!
I have one of those huge, great American vises made for Craftsman back in the day. The LAST thing we need to see are some of those great old vises destroyed. There will never be anymore made like those.
Check out Fireball Tool, he made a vise video awhile back that's definitely worth watching. Even custom fabricated a vise of his own design to improve on the weak points of other vises.
@@TheReal1953 my dad had one in his garage. i used it when i was young. i tell ya, it never faltered from any abuse. and abuse it had.
@@TheReal1953 Couldn't agree more!
Gotta say, I'm incredibly impressed not only with the comprehensive nature of your testing but how wholesome this community of informed buyers you've helped create. been watching a long time and definitely wont stop. keep up the great work!
Thanks, will do!
Was hoping to see Doyle from HF, have one of those among 5 other vices mostly US made and it's surprisingly not bad. Great tests PF!
Thank you! I'll include Doyle in another showdown if there's enough interest. I have several other methods of testing vises for round 2.
@@ProjectFarm Awesome, I'll definitely be watching that
@@ProjectFarm Second on the Doyle
@@TorqueTestChannel Look at you also watching Todd to see how it's done! Love your channel by the way.
Very interested in seeing how the Doyle stacks up!
Wow! I think this is the first time that something "unbreakable" has actually lived up to the claim on your channel! Fantastic video as always!
Thanks!
By the way, the 140mm Heuer is ~200€+ shipping in Europe, not 500$.
@@jpikl1284 No surprising if you convert euros to usd =/
@@johndudemech9471 Well currently it's almost 1:1
@@jpikl1284 he has the 160mm version, as that is inline with the 8" throat length. That one is 260€.
We Germans don't take pride in many things, but one of the few things were out pride is at it's highest is build quality. Awsome review, keep them coming.
Great point! Thank you
While i agree about Germany's tool quality... Im not so sure about that first statement though...
Cheers from Mannheim 🍺
One thing Germans should take pride for is cars. Y’all produce some extremely well made cars.
@@nickcohen7748 really? I don't see it.
I had that exact Irwin vise break while pressing an upper shock bearing in. I got lucky as everything broke. I replaced it with a Wilton 1765 about 4 years ago. It is one of my favorite tools in the shop and should be a lifelong piece. Thank you for your time on this test.
You are welcome!
I also have a 1765 Wilton, bought in 2017 and made in USA. It's unfortunate that Wilton has moved the production of the Bullet line of vices overseas. One of these USA Wilton Bullets surely would have been #1 in this test. They're heirloom quality.
Aren't you supposed to use a press for that?
I was seriously impressed with the harbor freight central forge vise in this test. I had avoided them for so long because I heard they were brittle and quick to break, but this video tells an entirely different tale!
I have the mini 2.5" clamp on vice. I've had it for 3 years and put it through a ton of abuse. Best
I have the 6 inch rotatable one with the pipe clamp on the under side and a 6” host at work. The model numbers make a difference as well. Happy with both vises honestly.
Harbor Freight has stepped up it's game. Checkout the video review of their 3 ton jack stands. Their stands had been recalled over safety issues. The new stands are top notch. I almost want to sell my current 6 ton stands and buy a pair of theirs.
Thanks for the feedback.
And 1 of the lighter vises, too. If it weighed 5 more pounds, it would have finished even higher!
As someone who is going to be building and buying my own garage shop, and home maintenance place your channel is (and has always been) the best for helping me decide what to buy! You have helped me more then you'll ever know! And this episode is no different! Thank you for all of your work!
if you want to know about batt tools. indepth,,watch ave / boltr. makita, is still the best.. but like all tools, you have to pik & shovel, [ choose ]..very few manufacturers make,oversea, there own tools, makita, is 1 of maybe 4 that do..
@@harrywalker5836 oh for sure! Thank you for the suggestion!
I know everyone wants to see the Fireball Hardtail in this test, but unfortunately it wouldn’t be a fair fight. The Hardtail is in a different weight class 270lbs and price point. For example the Hardtail’s handle starts to bend at 40,000lbs.
Thanks for the feedback!
Maybe he could test it along with a like 50 year old vice and see which is more heavy duty
Hardware store vices really are in a different class than a big vice like the FBT Hardtail. Can't wait till the pre-orders start flowing again so I can finally get mine 😁
There's also the little matter that the Fireball Tool vise doesn't exist.
There's five positive reviews of the Fireball vise on its website but so far none have been delivered to customers, what a scam 😂
@@jake9705 Lots of vises have been delivered.
Great tests! As someone who has broken a couple of vises at least than opportune moments, it looks like it might be fun breaking one for science. Speaking of science, I always enjoy seeing the clever test rigs you come up with to produce repeatable and fair data across all the devices you're comparing.
Thanks and you are welcome!
The only complaint I have is tiny, but during the hammer test, all the pieces being hammered were at different lengths in the vices. Those different lengths would make a massive difference in force applied to the jaws. Otherwise, very comprehensive and well thought out testing sir!
"Bent right out of the box". Too funny. More than likely someone bought it, used it, and returned it. Seen it many times before. Love the torture tests. Thank you for another fantastic testing video!
You are welcome!
Spares the user some work.
It's awesome to see the test rigs that you come up with to perform your testing with. You really put a lot of effort into your videos! Also nice upgrade in the testing equipment. You do great with educating a lot of buyers out there.
Thanks!
I absolutely love how you get the information out there nice and quick, it's a load of information at the speed of which we understand and the speed of which we like to watch, you are doing such an amazing job and I'm such a proud subscriber of project farm
Thank you!
Absolutely agree! Now this is good data delivered at the kind of super speed we want. 10/10, subscribed
YES! A vise is one of those things that I've always been told not to cheap out on, looking forward to seeing if a higher price really means better quality!
Great point! Thank you
TLDR; the answer is no lol
@@95TurboSol The only vice to survive was the more expensive heuer so answer is yes.
I was also told that. And yet, the two afordable prise ones (Forge & Foward) out performe some of the more expensive ones🤯
..I got the foward dual jaws.
@@firstman9273 only when you consider the best quality vise, the results pretty clearly indicate, value does not scale linearly with price
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. You run an amazing channel and provide such important information. The detail you go through alone to ensure fair and accurate testing is bar none. I applaud you good sir. Thank you.
Thanks and you are welcome!
I've had the Fireball Tool 5 inch vise for awhile now and it has lasted through everything I have done with it. The big selling point is the base being designed for welding tables that have 5/8 holes spaced 2 inches apart, which meant that I was able to take it out of the box and bolt it to my table and it can be moved to any position on the table. It would be a good one to include if you ever do a round 2 of testing.
YESSSSSS, please test the Fireball Tool vise!
Thirded!
4th-ed for Fireball Tool's vice!
And his video destroying vices is informative
How much? 😁
Outstanding tests! As a German I didn't hesitate to get me a true HEUER vise a few years ago. They are a LOT cheaper here than in the US but of course still way more expensive than some Chinese cast iron vises. I got the "160"-model, i.e. one size up from what was tested here, and I paid about 1/2 the price shown here.
And I didn't regret it a single day! 😃
Thanks! Thanks for the feedback.
Can they bought at any hardware store in Germany? Maybe I’ll buy one there next time I visit.
@@wadesaxton6079 Seems to only be available at Hornbach, and you have to order it in store.
Wirklich? don’t you have proper hardware stores in Germany anymore ? Cross the border, you can buy them everywhere in the Netherlands, even in the small town I live (Zwolle) are like 5 stores that sell several models.
As a fellow German. Heuer, Leinen, Ridgid/peddinghaus are all good with different strenghts and weaknesses. also any English or German made that survied 50years are usually good for another 50.
Got Heuers in our workshop, they are installed since 30 years, they got welding marks, angle grinder cuts and slightly bent handles, but they still work perfectly.
And considering that here in Germany the 140mm(8inch of span) just cost 190€, it's a good value.
Thanks for sharing.
Yup. They seem to be dummy expensive in the states. I got my 140 mm with replaceable jaws shipped from Germany for a little over 200 € if I remember correctly.
Haven't regretted that purchase a day since. It's a joy to use and will most certainly outlast me.
Probably import taxes. It's not the first time that something reasonably priced in Europe ends up being expensive in the States.
@@blarfroer8066
Seems unfair given in the UK I bought a pair of Irwin 'Vise grips' for less than £20 (less than $25 USD).
They're awesome too! I've beat on them for a year now and they're still going strong and then some!
@@blarfroer8066 every other vice here is made in China, imported and sold for less than the markup in price for the German counterpart.
I do not have any needs for a bench vise but I’m addicted to your non biased views and fair tests! Thanks for all the videos you have put up! Made some smart purchases as an auto tech thanks to your thorough reviews!
I don't need to buy a vise, but as soon as I saw this video by Project Farm testing some, I had to watch it! That's how good this channel is! Thanks for sharing.
Thank you very much!!
My thoughts exactly.
I don’t need a vice but i need project farm to “Test That”.
I don't even do diy but i find these vids so entertaining for some reason lol
I’m not sure I have ever bought anything from this channel. But I watch every video.
I really love these tests, please never stop testing equipment! This information is invaluable.
Side note: I'm a huge fan of Harbor Freight and their tools for their value/quality proposition. They never cease to amaze.
Thanks and you are welcome!
Agree David! Most are pretty dang good. Others not so good. But a good value for this weekend hotrod worker.
I got a Doyle vise @harbor freight w the 25% off coupon 3 wks ago. (Central machinery items were excluded from the coupon). It seems to be built like a tank, ductile iron and claims 7700lbs clamp force. I would’ve loved to see how it stacks up so I can feel good or bad about my purchase too 😂
Nice test, and good information. One bench vise I would recommend is the Fireball tools hardtail model. It's made in USA, and he also did a test of vises, and his definitely survived. His is available with deposit for preorder, which might help explain that it's handmade.
I would mention that Wilton does make some professional vise's in USA.
The USA made Wilton's still have Wilton quality but not the CCP made ones.
I was at the Fabtech show in Atlanta this past week and meet Jason from Fireball. They had the Fireball vise for sale $5800.00. I have their welding squares but cannot justify that much for a vise.
Thanks! Thanks for the recommendation.
Agree on Wilton. Would love to have seen one of their better vises versus that Chinese consumer grade one. I have a smaller bullet from the 50's as well as a somewhat newer tradesman 6".
@@RealJeep I can't believe they even let their name be put on that thing. My 8" bullet vices seem unbreakable.
I bought my Larin 5" vise years and years ago from Costco. This thing has been through hell and back, been pounded on over and over with a sledge hammer and is still a workhorse. Thank you Todd for another amazing video on this chilly Sunday afternoon.
The chart at the end, the competition throughout the video, this was a top notch production from you. Keep it up!
Thanks, will do!
I have seen many of his videos and I like how he tries to intervene as little as possible and with as few variables as possible, being as technical and easy to understand at the same time.
Thanks!
I know they are considerably more expensive; but I’d like to see a similar test between the higher end vices. Especially the USA made Wilton and it’s counterparts. Great video as always!
Thanks! Thanks for the suggestion.
@@ProjectFarm would like to see fireball tool!
@@ProjectFarm let’s see a “snap on”vise in that comparison!
@@codyg7936 Snap-on was made by Wilton... i have an old Bullet Wilton. It would blow away everyone of those vises.
@@KennyInVegas Same here,I have my Dad's 5 inch bullet. Scored a beat up 4 inch and rebuilt it for my son. There's a guy on ebay that has brand new jaws. I also got the correct swivel base from him. Made an extra long handle out of a 15 inch 1/2" socket extension.
Nice Video, I'm from germany and own a Heuer Vise with replaceable jaws and a swiveling base, it cost me arround 250€, that our german tools are so expensive in america is always shocking to me :/ But I always love it when someone like you tests those tools against your brands, good work!
Thanks!
I didn’t realize it was that much cheaper over there. Does that ring true for knipex Tools as well?
@@edm514 they are slightly less expensive in Germany, but not so much that it would cover shipping costs across the pond.
American tools and other products are usually at least twice as much expensive in Europe than in North America.
Wow, very impressive tests! I would have been a bit scared during that last test. The Crentral forge impressed me too. I wonder how the new HF Doyle line of vices would compare.
Thanks! Thanks for the suggestion.
I have the 6 inch Doyle and it’s a beast. But of coarse I don’t use this hard. But for a vice for automotive work it’s hard to beat for the money. Just my 2 cents.
Yeah, I was hoping the bigger Doyle would be included on this test! I'm very happy with the one I picked up a few months ago with a 'no exclusions' 25% off discount. Would like to know how it sized up in this test..
@@manunava1776 Yeah, I have the 5" Doyle and I really like it but it's a slightly different design/style from the 4" & '6" versions. I'm very interested in seeing how the 6" version would fare in these tests. I have to say I'm quite surprised how the HF Central Forge vise performed overall as I always perceived them to be borderline junk.
I’d also like to see the HF Doyle 6” added to the test
I've broke 4 bench vises over the years. The one I have now is an old one from I believe the 70s era and it is built like a tank. If by some chance I manage to break it (wasn't a high end vise from what I've researched) I'll definitely shell out for the expensive "unbreakable" one. When using a vise I want it to be as strong as possible because I expect a lot from it. Thanks for another good comparison video.
You are welcome! Thanks for sharing.
Same here. My old craftsman is built insanely better than my modern craftsman. The metallurgy and tolerances of modern vices are terrible.
I agree. I have a Record engineer's bench vice from the '30s/'40s that was passed down through the family plus a '50s Record woodworker's bench vice that I found on Ebay. Both from the days when Record actually made Record vices.
If either of them nreaks I'd search for an equivalent 2nd-hand replacement rather than pay the bucks for a modern one.
We have about 15 Heuer vises at our (European) metalworking shop. They really are indestructible. A lot of them are older than any of the employees and they display no wear at all. I have never seen one break, and that's after an unfair share of hammering, grinding, welding, and various other forms of abuse. I'm actually kind of surprised they are still in business, because we've never had to buy a new one either (that I remember).
Dang, i was actually thinking the Irwin would be a good choice for the price. Then again this whole video i was thinking, I've used some unbelievably nice old vices but never really stressed them. You got a good point, now I'm thinking of just getting a good old used one and it should outlast even "good" new ones
Perfect timing on this video. Just today I was looking at a few small vise for my portable workbench and was not really even putting Central Forge into my options for consideration, and now I am kind of leaning that way.
Thanks for the feedback!
i ended up buying 2 5-1/2" wilton vises and ive been perfectly happy so far with them. They retailed for like $130, but the local napa accidentally bought an entire pallet extra so they put them on sale for $80 each.
There's a vice from Fireball tool that I really want to get, mainly to keep in the truck since it doubles as a jack. I know they did a fair bit of testing already on their channel, but I'd love to see what you could come up with to maybe push it to failure. Also I'm very impressed with the Central Forge, gonna have to keep this in mind when I build a new bench
I've always wanted to get his plans and build a FireBall vice
@@jeremykoehn4004 I know, they look sooooo good, I'd just need someone to cut out the parts and weld it up for me.
I have the larger Central Forge (HF) vice with the swivel head and bottom pipe clamp. It works really well holding 1.5 inch iron pipe. However, the vice's iron is soft and I striped out the original lock screw on day 1. I tapped the stripped hole for a much larger screw and it has been holding up well for several years now.
It's stupidly heavy and one function should not have been added. It underperforms as a floor jack. Not completely thought out
That thing is nuts lol
Todd is KING regarding in depth tools, oils, adhesives,etc., testing, including dreadful torture tests that give goose bumps to manufacturers / importers. Todd's actually THE worldwide honest referent reagarding the above & my go-to shopping advisor. Not enough words to say 'Thank You' to Todd & his dedicated work in his own awsome category!!..
🇺🇸🙏🙏🙏
Thanks and you are welcome!
Great work as always! A video on top Harbor Freight tools you've tested would be an interesting video. Maybe some filler material for a week where you are taking it easy :)
Thanks! Thanks for the suggestion.
@@ProjectFarm i second the harbor freight video. Would be extremely interesting. Thanks for the vids!
He needs to do a fractal vice
Just to add, it would also be of interest to see the worst HF tools you have tested.
I'm usually impressed with how well the HF tools hold up, especially for the price.
I have a brockhaus heuer 140 here in the Netherlnds. They are a lot cheaper here around 215,- euro. The play off the jaw is adjustable by tightening the bolt on de side of the base of the brockhaus.
Can't wait till next week's video i like them a lot!
Thanks!
The best vice is the one that your grandad had. This is a perfect example of a tool that “they just don’t make like they used to”.
I’ve got a Record vice made in Sheffield that is around 70 years old and spent 50 years in a blacksmith’s shop at a coal mine. It’s barely got a scratch on it.
Nice!
Record can be crazy high quality, that brand made vises when Britain was an empire. If it says "Record STEEL" on it, that's a cast steel vise that almost no other brand ever made. Heuer is forged steel which is nice and theoretically better, but the cast steel Record is just so much thicker that it's just waaay stronger. They had numbers designating what it was made for, for example the no.35 was their top of the line engineer vise made from steel or nodular (ductile) cast iron, that would cost over 1000$ if made nowadays (like the top end Wilton Bullet vises or a Swiss Gressel). But the most amazing was the Record 518 "Heavy Chipping STEEL" vise, a cast steel behemoth so heavy that it would crush most regular workbenches...
' Coal mine ' says it all. They don't skimp on buying the best.
@@jpikl1284 Looking at pictures of the vice you mentioned. I noticed that it gives the model number as "518 1/2". I suppose that 1/2 makes all the difference!
You won’t be buying another one if the first one you bought lasts forever. It’s fucked up, but it’s what happens when you combine capitalism with corruption.
About 50 plus years ago I inherited a vice from my father. I have used it hundreds of times and am amazed it has never disappointed. The jaw is 4" wide and can open up to a usable approx. 8". The vise embossed markings are: (right side) THE CHAS. PARKER CO. MERIDAN, CT. USA , (LEFT SIDE) SEMI-STEEL, SOLID BAR, PATENTED, JAN. 2 1806, NOV. 22 1810 , NO. 239X I enjoy all of your testing. Very useful, Don't ever stop Todd!!
I have 2 of the Central Forge vises in my shop. One is about 3 years old and the other 2. No problems with either yet. I'm not abusively hard on them but they do get a lot of use. I do a lot of welding and metal work. Thanks for another very informative test.
I see round two coming for vises 😁
Perhaps Fireball tool, Capri tools, and Doyle could be making an appearance then?!
Wow, unbreakable indeed! Very impressive, Heuer!
What a surprise that the Harbor Freight and Forward vises performed better than I had anticipated. For budget vises under 100 bucks, not bad at all.
Thanks again PF!
I would like to see this as well. Maybe some very old vices as well.
Doyle, Yost, and Capri all rebrand and switch between the same Chinese OEMs depending on line. Brand loyalty for vise resellers is tough to justify.
@@TheDeathM that’s what I’ve been saying, my only vice is a 40-50 pounder from like the 50s or 60s and other then lugging it around because I don’t have it mounted it’s great for a vise I got for free
My uncle has a massive collection of antique vises of all types. I am very interested to see how those compare to the modern vises in this testing.
I'd really like to test some vintage vises!
@@ProjectFarm Guessing it will be like Vintage Craftsman vs. Current model (sadly)! 😎✌🏼
@@gus473 I have an old 6" Craftsman (USA) vise that I have abused for decades! When vise manufacturers farmed out production to the CCP we all know what happened.
@@gus473 they are both junk lol
@@ProjectFarm There will be massive differences...they won't break or fail like the junk sold today.
I grab a central forge vise a couple years back off this video. It has held up very well for me. Thanks You!
Arguably the best channel on UA-cam! 🔥
Thanks and you are welcome!
I really enjoy seeing the improvised testing tools and equipment. The depth gauge setup was nicely played and I really enjoyed the socket with the cross bolt. I was not understanding how a hex was driving them until closer inspection. The seemingly simple ones are always the most pleasing.
Very brave to take them to failure like that and really interesting to see the differences in how they each (nearly each) failed.
Thanks for the feedback!
A vise is one of those critical tools that I'd take a horrible wooden one over no vise at all! Very impressed with the Harbor Freight one. I use an old Wilton bullet vise in my shop, it's never let me down. Sad to see the modern Wilton do so poorly. I put some copper jaws on mine, now there's little that can escape its grasp! Thanks for all you do!
These are light duty vices. For holding something for filing, hack-sawing or something similar, most of them would function well enough to get the job done.
Wilton have both Chinese and USA made vises. The USA ones are top notch. I wouldn’t buy any Chinese vise. Edit: Since I bought my USA made 1755 Tradesman, in 2017, they are now made in Taiwan. So I have no idea what’s going on at Wilton, if they make anything in the USA or not.
Those tools made in China will never be as good as the original tools made in the USA. I consider them toys, not serious professional tools.
If you look at the Wilton and Yost catalogs you will see that they sell vices of much higher quality than the ones in the test...some of which are Made In USA. If you think that $500 German vice is expensive, hold on to your lug nuts! It would have been eye-opening to see one of these in the test but it's easy to spend someone else's $$$. Anyway, the test really shows how vices people like me can afford (or even need) stacked up against each other. Thanks again Project Farm!!!👍
Awesome tests as always! I don't feel as bad about going with the Harbor Freight vice over a Wilton 2 years ago when I needed a cheap vice in a pinch! Like others said, Doyle would be a great contender for the next test.
Thanks for sharing!
Bought a Forward three days ago, saw this video today (5/23/2024) and now I feel reasonably good about my purchase !
Thanks for the time and effort making these videos.
You are welcome! Glad to hear!
Great video as always! I know you’ve done reciprocating saw tests in the past, but have you considered testing the newer one handed “hackzall” type saws? Also testing orbital reciprocating saws would be awesome. I appreciate all the hard work you put into your videos, and I can’t wait to see what’s next in store!
Thank you for the video idea!
Nice comparison! Problem with cheap vises is that they use cast iron. Vise like the Heuer Front use forged steel, which is a lot stronger but comes with higher price. In Europe the model you tested sells for only 200€ and interchangeable jaws version goes for 250€. I have the interchangeable version and I love it.
Thanks for sharing.
I’ve have a HF vice I bought over 15 years ago, and I’ll bet I didn’t pay more than $30. Never failed yet. If I replace it, I’ll definitely buy one with a pipe jaw as I could have used it many times. Great review, and you always amaze me with the various tests you come up with.
Thanks!
Here you are 3.3 million subs, and you’re STILL a man listening to his audience for feedback and ideas. You’re like If Consumer Reports books was unbiased and had scientific testing. You are great at coming up with ways to test, and deserve all the success you have. 🍻
Happy to be a subscriber
Thanks so much!
It's disappointing how many name brand vices performance poorly. This is one of your most interesting videos yet, and very thorough testing. If manufacturers ever respond to your tests, that in itself would be an interesting video topic!
Thanks! Thanks for the suggestion.
Fireball tool did a great video on vises also I always buy forged vises because (ductile) cast iron vises always fails as you proved great video!
Great feedback! Thank you
Ductile iron is not the same as cast iron. They are both cast, but one is very similar to steel in composition. All cheap vises are the bottom of the barrel cast iron, like the majority of the cheaper vises in this video. A high quality cast ductile iron vise, like a US made Wilton, older Wilton, Columbian, and most of the older high quality vises are just as strong as a forged steel vise, especially if that forged steel is Chinese.
@@BryceKimball7.3 I don't think you read my comment clearly. I stated ductile cast iron which is the bottom of the barrel and I will definitely disagree with your opinions. wilton bullet vises (ductile steel) are the fantastic, but there's several forged vises that are equally as good on the market nowadays. The weak link is majority of swivel bases. A good wilton bullet vise will cost you much more than a good forged vise and most diy people will never need anything more. Just to summarize the cheap vises usually market as ductile cast iron and they are not as good as forged wilton hardly even makes a usa made vise neither does Columbia ect. Forged or a old vise is your best option.
You are a valuable member of the UA-cam community. Thanks.
I appreciate that!
Would have loved to see Harbor Freight's Doyle line of vice included as well as they are supposed to be their better line. Great work overall! Love the channel.
Thanks and you are welcome! Thanks for the suggestion.
Doyle, and Pony too. And perhaps an older USA made Craftsman & Wilton.
Add Capri to the list. (I think they make the Doyle for HF)
Those Doyle vises also cost 3x more. I just bought the Central Forge 5" for $59.00 and the 5" Doyle was $199. ouch.
@@LBCAndrew Yeah, very spendy.
I picked up a Yost 460 vice a few years ago at a local pawn shop for $30. This vice is a beast and performed very well. I have only good things to say about this vice. It was old when I bought it and keeps working for me . I recommend this vice for long term reliability.
Thanks for sharing.
I've always been leery of buying the central forge vise because harbor freight doesn't have that great of a track record. It's nice to see how well it did. When I do get around to buying a vise it will probably be the central forge. Thanks for all the non-bias product testing that you do! It is very much appreciated.
Thanks and you are welcome!
Yeah honestly I was very surprised with that price and amazing performance compared with every other vise
As is so common with HF, a lot of things are total crap... but there are a lot of things that are very great values. The main caveat emptor, is consistency. You have a decent chance of getting a really good vise there. But, you also have a decent chance of getting one that is crap, with horrible defects that would cause it to be last in most tests.
The thing that makes it so intriguing, is they are so cheap, that its worth the dice roll, that you might get a good one. I've been playing Harbor Freight roulette for decades.... lol. It can be fun!
Project Farm never disappoints and somehow always knows what tests I want to see before I do.
I bought a Ktool 8” steel monster for $180 recently. It’s sloppy beyond description, but is massive and has a huge anvil which aligns well with my needs (for example I rebuilt a driveshaft and used it in bending a bunch of rebar during the past week).
That heuer vice looks amazing… but I’d be scared of scratching a $500 vice.
Thanks for sharing.
They're expensive in the USA, I have an heuer 140 with replaceable jaws for around 300.
Definitely. He's helped me realize that sometimes getting the HF or other low-budget/low-end tool and simply modding or lubing it is a viable option.
And he's reaffirmed my and am sure many other guys' beliefs that sending on one's needs, we're just better off buying an expensive and good high-quality tool.
Great video! It would be interesting if you could’ve included a vintage vice.
I think my favorite part is that you don't verbally bash any item you test. You just give us your test results and your opinion, then allow us to pick. For me, it's money that is very limiting so you are amazing.
Thanks!
I love your work @Project Farm. One improvement I would have done is to secure the vices to the table before doing the drop tests on the anvil surface. It better recreates the real world conditions when the anvil would be used. Thank you.
Thanks!
Guessing you meant vises
Great video as always! One thing to note about your hammer blow test: by far the biggest factor that was not controlled for was the distance away from the jaws the blow was hitting.
Since you are torquing the whole vice, the jaws act like the pivot point and the further away from those jaws the blow lands the more torque is applied vs the closer to the jaws it hits the force is more "backward" and directly in line with the rear jaw.
Each vice's different jaw hight from the base was probably a much bigger factor than anything else. I.e. a short or low profile vice had a larger amount of steel cantilevered out to the point of impact. The longer the lever arm was from the jaws, the more leverage it had to torque the jaws and body.
For example at 12:15 the Yost is really tall, so the weight is impacting only about an inch away from the jaws. A very short lever. Then at 12:29 the Ridgid is very short and weight is impacting much further from the jaws, maybe 4 or 5 inches away. The length of the lever arm is applying much more tangential torque compared to more linear impact force of the Yost.
Thanks!
I would argue this is still a valid test, because in real application you also cannot change the height.
Good observation!
All I can say is you are my #1 source for solid and reliable information. Keep up the great work.
Thank you again for another thorough product evaluation. Whether viewers are seeking the best value or the most robust vise, your testing will guide them to right choice. You are an amazing product tester.
You are welcome!
I would love to see how these vises stack up compared to the old models like a Wilton "bullet vise" and such. Even at the collector type prices those can fetch second-hand, I bet they perform just as well if not better than today's new offerings, making the old ones still a good value.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Yeah, same as a new Wilton Bullet, not the cheap ones... But those are 500$+ vises... In truth the Heuer is a 200$ vise in Germany, the price in the USA is just bloated beyond reason (same as e.g. tools from PB Swiss or Wera, those are half or third of the cost in Germany). Morgan makes new made-in-USA ductile iron vises too, possibly even better than a Wilton Bullet. The Czech York (original Bullet vise manufacturer, Wilton is a bit of a rip-off) would be nice to compare too (I think regular lamellar cast iron as most on this test, but really well made and designed). Also, top end German vises like a Leinen, Schlegel EMF or a Swiss Gressel would be nice to see in the comparison. Australian Dawn vises are also extremelly well made and have an interesting offset design. Also ductile steel... And the big Heuer for a comparison (180mm version).
@@jpikl1284 You know your vises. Dawn is very well regarded in Australia. They have regular vises as well as offset vises. It would be great to see a test of all these vises, and the Fireball Tool vise as well. Postage on all of them to Todd's workshop would be quite expensive!
Always makes my sundays better seeing you upload . Thanks a lot Todd i appreciate your excellent testing
Thank you very much!
Very underrated episode here. No one really thinks about the quality of a vice. I'm glad you did this.
Thanks!
Love this video! I've always wondered about cheap vs expensive vises. So thorough as always! I don't go to google or amazon for tool reviews anymore. I go here! Would love to see another boot comparison follow up to the one you did last year, but this time including $500+ dollar boots. 👍
I hope to buy my first pair of nicks soon! I've been really wanting the overlanders
@@Mattars Nice! Love it!
Thanks! Thanks for the suggestion.
At 12:15 the vertical drop is hitting the Yost only an inch from the jaws, applying far less torque than for similar blows at 11:30 or 10:08. Unfortunately that means the Yost didn't get the same test the other vices did.
But other than that error, it was a great test and very helpful!
I also wonder how much the handle length affected the clamping force readings.
At 90 degrees, torque equals force times distance. So he was actually applying MORE torque with the longer handles, yet still getting lower clamping force.
Awesome test as always! Would love to see a round 2 with the harbor freight Doyle brand included as they look to be a big upgrade from the central forge.
I’ve got one, and upgraded it with a thrust bearing (thanks for the idea, fireball tool) and it’s easily the best vise I’ve ever owned. Definitely second this idea.
Great suggestion! Thanks!
@@benhobby17 I have a Doyle, I'm interested in how this upgrade is accomplished. Did Fireball show it and I missed it?
@@AToolWithTools nope, its mostly luck that a 20x38mm thrust bearing fits almost perfectly in the handle housing. I can hang off the end of the handle and still loosen it with a finger.
This is a great testing video!
I have a Brockhaus Heuer 140 for 2 years now, it never disappointed me and it’s my favorite tool ever bought😊
Greetings from the Netherlands
Greetings! Thanks! Thanks for sharing.
Your unbreakable ratchet was most impressive. Thanks for the video. Super job as always. Much appreciated.
Thanks so much!
Maybe... Todd was "gonna test that" regarding the ratchet's unbreakability at the same time for another video?
Also the man's never failed to impress with all the things he's tested in his videos! Just when I think "Hey, maybe its time to replace / get a " Todd's already got pretty much what I'm looking for on video already somewhere.
Thanks for all the excellent work over the years! Saved me and many others lots of time and money to find products that work for our needs (and wallets).
I’ve used and broken a few cheap vises and have a good idea what to avoid! As mentioned, it would be nice to test an old vise to see how it compares (but it would be sad to test to failure). Thanks again for the great custom test jigs, data points and testing standards!
You are welcome!
I always look forward to your videos. I love seeing your testing methods. I will always appreciate you're scientific and unbiased approach.
Thank you very much!
The USA made Wilton vice I have is a Wilton Bullet and is approximately 50 years old. It’s old but doesn’t have the slop and backlash like the vises destroyed in the video.
Thanks for sharing.
I was hoping to see a Wilton bullet vise in this test I've got one 40ish years old excellent vise. Another great impartial real world tool review, thanks.
Thanks Project Farm for a great series of tests!! Very informative!! Having been around a few times when vises break, your tests give a very comprehensive look at vise quality.
Thanks and you are welcome!
So timely, I need a good bench vise right now. Thank you very much!!
Happy to help!
Love seeing the tools I own perform well. I look forward even more to seeing the tools I want be pit against competing brands! Your channel is great
Fireball tool on youtube ran through a few vice failures in his development of the perfect vice. It exists in a different price bracket and is geared more to fabricators and is absolutely massive. It is a very cool video that would be worth a watch after finishing this video for those interested.
Thanks for spending the time to put these videos together. I can really appreciate the time it takes to put a video together. You uncover very valuable information for people. I work in a tire factory and other than the super old vices from our nearly 100 year old factory nearly all of the new stuff gets quickly destroyed.
Thanks and you are welcome! Thanks for the suggestion.
Oh yeah, i remember watching that. What an absolute unit.
Love this topic and would love to see a round 2! Vises are something I've always bought older made in USA stuff. I'm curious what else is even out there anymore that isn't junk.
Thanks for the suggestion.
@@debtminer4976 No kidding. I found a 1920's era massive 150lb Chas Parker 375 on local classified for $40. I've bought, restored and given away a few 70's era 6" Record mechanics vices that will outlast any of these.
Always enjoy your videos. A vise test definitely peaked my interest. However, when I need a vise I buy old USA. You can find old ductile steel 60k+ psi for $100. Keep up the great work. Love the tools you use to do the tests too!
Thanks, will do!
100% agree, old American made units are by far the best bang for your buck for a vise.
I've been pretty pleased with my Central Forge vise. Harbor Freight is a hit and miss and I tend not to buy too many things from them anymore, but this thing has been doing just fine.
Thanks for the feedback.
Hello BK. You are right about HF being hit or miss. I have a 6" HF Chicago Electric Bench Grinder I purchased 26 years ago and it is still going strong. I believe I paid $29 or $39.
Your thorough, insightful tests along with the quality of your presentations are the best on the internet! THANK YOU!!!
Thanks and you are welcome!
Now I have a better idea what to get for my small workbench. Great work, thank you.
Thanks and you are welcome!
dude great work on the weekly videos, you really got it down now
Thank you very much!
I always enjoy your tests. But this one is one of my favorites. I’ve been contemplating on getting one. Now that I know Harbor Freight has a decent one, I think I’ll be getting one from there.
I have one. It’s decent. Gets used but not abused and it’s holding up just fine.
I went with HF because I don’t have any indoor work space so the thing lives outside. I couldn’t justify anything over $100 if it is eventually going to die from the elements.
@@nasonguy
Put a coat of used engine oil on it and it will survive the winter well.
@@bertgrau3934 plenty of that laying around, haha. I do actually keep it oiled, but nothing lasts forever, especially out of doors.
@@nasonguy
Yes sir, that's true, just a suggestion.
Have a good evening sir 😊
I bought the Heuer vise 100 based on your video. It's being sent straight from Germany. I paid 230+ shipping. This may seem high price but for a forged steel vise of such quality I think its a great price,,, thank you for helping me make my happy decision
You are welcome!
I would have liked to have seen a Fireball Tool vise and also an old school Wilton bullet vise.
Fireball tool has already tested their vise, it would completely destroy any of these. Not to mention, it’s a whole lot larger. Unless you’re not talking about the USA made one they’re coming out with. If you’re talking about the forged steel one, it’s just a rebranded yost vise.
Thanks for the suggestions.
The Brockhaus Heuer is also available WITH replacable jaws. And in different widths, of course. If is has play in the slide, it can be adjusted to 0 with the middle screw. Great vise!
Great information! What a great vise!! Thank you
Just picked up a new 5" fixed vise the other day at Princess Auto, Canada's version of Harbor Freight, for $17 Cdn! It was on sale! lol The brand name is Shop Iron. Made in China. Looks exactly like the Central Forge you tested. Original price was $99, went down to $45, and finally to $17. They were blowing them out at that price! I wish there was a way to show you a picture of it, unfortunately there isn't.
Thanks for sharing.
I love the way you present information in these videos. Fast without being overwhelming. Also, genuinely helpful, I'll probably be getting an Irwin, seems a good value for the price.
Thanks!
I've broken 3 vices at work and was wondering how good the Doyle brand was but the Central Forge surprised me. Great video. How about a part 2 and test some others and maybe a vintage vise?
Should definitely have had something vintage. In the UK the 'Record' brand is readily available vintage for £50 - £100 depending on size, features and condition and they'll blow away everything in this test. Irwin now owns the Record brand and makes the stuff in China. It's a cruel insult to see 'Record' stickers on the crap that Irwin sells!
I'd wager that a vintage vise outperforms based solely on the steel quality.
If you've broken that many vises, it might be time to stop messing around with low quality vises.
Thanks! Thanks for the suggestion.
@@mediocreman2 they were installed by the shop builders I didn't buy them.
love the videos! really wanna see you test contractor garbage bags
Thank you for the video idea!
I really want to see this too
Wow, creative idea.
I was breaking 6" vise from home depot after 6" vise until 17 years ago I got a 4" Columbian 504 vise at Boeing Surplus for $50 with a workbench. I have been using it every day and no problems.
I think the difference is cast iron vs cast steel.
Thanks for the feedback.
Your tests are always comprehensive and useful. Thanks for helping me make smart choices!
You are welcome!