TOing a large event is a THANKLESS task, go and checkout Squad Games and thank them: www.youtube.com/@Squad-Games-Entertainment If you like what I do, check out my Patreon: www.patreon.com/GlassHalfDead Want the ACCOUTREMENTS I use when I play Kill Team? Find them here for 5% off using code GLASSHALFDEAD24: tinyurl.com/mry6uhyj My HOW TO PLAY KILL TEAM Video: ua-cam.com/video/1mPOpxA6sxE/v-deo.html&t
Warp Coven had a low number likely because players were hesitant to bring a team wholly expected to be getting hit with the Nerf Stick by the potential "Day Before" Dataslate, I reckon. Might also explain the show up in Plague Marine numbers, because they were presumably be immune to this quick of balance changes so they felt good and safe.
I played PM at LVO and the TO nerfs hurt plague unduly hard. Rolling double 1s on heals without being able to try again on counteract , not being able to poison and do 3 damage with plague caster in a single turn. Critical
I was a player at the tournament playing plague marines. I think the LVO changes hurt PM more than it did Warpcoven etc. they were caught in the crossfire. I rolled double 1s on plague caster heals several times and couldn’t rely on counteract heal to try again. The other healers guaranteed at least four wounds of heal if not more. Also, I couldn’t tag a poison with the caster and then do 3 dmg on a counteract. Something that should have been excluded from the double psychic rule. Also day 3 was rough. I was mentally done after the sixth game.
I feel the physic change was due to Void dancers damage ability( dealing d3 for matching dice rolls) , warpcoven and plague marines healing abilty due to being able to heal almost all health in one turn.
ITC is the International Tournement Circuit, run by Frontline Gaming to encorage people to go to their events or use BCP, which is their (excruciatingly bad) tournement software.
Warp Coven can heal twice with Sorcerer of Tempyrion during a turn (once in activation, once in counteraction) 4D3 healing/TP is a bit much on a 3+/2+ save team with 14 wounds/model (15 for leader)
Counteract is stupidly broken. That it is given to to APL3 factions just makes it worse. It effectively only have ONE counter … make sure you ALSO have it. Same number of models = no counteracts turn 1. Not a surprise at all that so many at LVO played into that. APL3 should be enough of a problem as is and they do not need extra stuff. Part of playing horde is you can throw your chaff at them and save your value for plays when it is just you left and you know the board state for the turn. I get they tried to avoid the situation where one player turtles half of turn one, then force the elites to waste their eliteness only make the power armor pretty boys look stupid getting shot at. But removing the one advantage horde has in doing so is lazy and they will eventually need to make two “leagues”. As you said in a video months ago Andy they need one game for elites and another for the rest. KT18 also got broken when they wanted to sell golden boys and termies and before that Deathwatch ruled because of broken guns. In KT anything that allow you to bundle and double-down on value in single models breaks when the stratagem costs are not scaled. It is a pity they did not see that in 40k and they just copy that mess to all the games. A space marine getting an extra shot is not equal to a guardsman. Re-rolling a lasgun at 5+ is not the same as re-rolling a bolter at 3+. And the list goes on. I found the only fix to these GW games is to houserule certain match-ups. Sure play elites against elites if you really want to. But even better try to match teams according to relative power. I have had a blast playing guard vs gsc in KT18. Lots of variety on both sides and as long as you don’t do full plasma spam also pretty balanced.
Andy, have you also looked at how many of the teams taken or not taken are becoming unclassified next year and whether the potential loss of teams is affecting the tournament scene??
Isn't the shortage of Warp Coven because people were expecting a heavy-handed nerf in the Balance Dataslate before the event? Didn't happen, but easily could have.
Just shows that Warpcoven nerfs will hit them harder than Legionary nerfs would have. Meaning Legionary may likely need just as strong or stronger of a nerf. And I am a player that mains Warpcoven and know that we need to be reigned in quite a bit. Hoping my Breachers get some love though.
@@GlassHalfDead Yeah there was that as well, but the fact hasn't changed that marines could reliably delete W7 models with every activation and overwatch.
I thought I watched a game of Felgor Ravagers on the Squad Games stream… were there matches that wouldn’t be included here? I don’t think it was a Narrative Match Edit: Great video by the way! I love the analysis
So, if you have to pick a primary op as your first action in the strategic phase of TP 1, does that mean that Hand of the Archon can't gain a CP in TP 1 or that they can pass after selecting a primary op to gain a CP?
They specifically included language to not disturb the HotA ability. It says that this choosing of the Primary OP as the first Gambit is NOT a chance to pass.
Hi, where could I see the results in detail? Do you know anywhere that this is recorded? Or did you get this info by noting it yourself while watching?
I mean hey, maybe it's only me that requires that level of compulsion to play the game 3 times in a week xD (and that's why I can't win a game in a tournament, so fair play)
I think people are sleeping on how powerful Hunter Clade are, specially ruststalkers because of their cost. Being able to immediately resolve 2 crits at 6 damage because of rending and a cp is crazy. Yeah you have a chance at taking 4, but you can probably trade 2 for 1 in most cases. And if you have 3 or 4, you're going to out value even elite armies. It wouldn't be as bad the -1 to hit stacked with injured, but it ignores that too. There is a guy at my LGS who consistently runs tables with 3 stalkers and a princeps.
I had a look at them early in the edition and I thought they looked totally fine. But then everyone placed them in bottom tier and my local Clade player tried them once and got tabled by Legionary and has now said he refuses to play until GK or nids get released, so... no local Clade players unfortunately :(
@GlassHalfDead if he worked at it a bit, he would be surprised at how good they are. He gives our Legionares and Necrons players a hard time. We have a weekly event and he's usually undefeated.
As someone who runs my LGS's kill team group, and wants to host tournaments in the enw edition? This is not giving me much confidence in balance and diversity of teams...
Hope you like elites! And then after the elites get nerfed, hope you like eldar! And then... then it'll probably be all good. It's just how things are. It's a new edition, it's going to be a bit wacky until the second balance patch into the edition. It's a solid game, but there is a very clear S tier for competitive, and also a very clear S tier for beginner players.
@ that was my point. Dude seemed on full tilt playing v warp coven, although my buddy who sent me a few more of the streams shows the blades player was not the friendliest opponent throughout.
jesus, again the "no problem" problem. Just force players to print PDF like week/2 weeks before. PDF are easily obtainable officially and judges can have them on their disk. Nothing would be lost.
TOing a large event is a THANKLESS task, go and checkout Squad Games and thank them: www.youtube.com/@Squad-Games-Entertainment
If you like what I do, check out my Patreon: www.patreon.com/GlassHalfDead
Want the ACCOUTREMENTS I use when I play Kill Team? Find them here for 5% off using code GLASSHALFDEAD24: tinyurl.com/mry6uhyj
My HOW TO PLAY KILL TEAM Video: ua-cam.com/video/1mPOpxA6sxE/v-deo.html&t
TOing any tournament is thankless. Big up all the TO's
not just the internet , the universe ! It is a fair assumption !
Warp Coven had a low number likely because players were hesitant to bring a team wholly expected to be getting hit with the Nerf Stick by the potential "Day Before" Dataslate, I reckon.
Might also explain the show up in Plague Marine numbers, because they were presumably be immune to this quick of balance changes so they felt good and safe.
I played PM at LVO and the TO nerfs hurt plague unduly hard.
Rolling double 1s on heals without being able to try again on counteract , not being able to poison and do 3 damage with plague caster in a single turn. Critical
Top 8 with blooded here. 💪🏼
The only TRUE winner, not having to use 3APL BS!
I was a player at the tournament playing plague marines. I think the LVO changes hurt PM more than it did Warpcoven etc. they were caught in the crossfire.
I rolled double 1s on plague caster heals several times and couldn’t rely on counteract heal to try again. The other healers guaranteed at least four wounds of heal if not more.
Also, I couldn’t tag a poison with the caster and then do 3 dmg on a counteract. Something that should have been excluded from the double psychic rule.
Also day 3 was rough. I was mentally done after the sixth game.
Fellow plague marine player here, and yeah we had it rough
Hope the designers can find a way to reign in the top Elites without completely annihilating the weaker ones. It's going to be a difficult balance.
#1 channel in the world
In what category? Doesn't matter, shut up, hit the subscribe button.
That "tistic urge" line really got me, lol
It's inarguable!
excellent channel
I feel the physic change was due to Void dancers damage ability( dealing d3 for matching dice rolls) , warpcoven and plague marines healing abilty due to being able to heal almost all health in one turn.
ITC is the International Tournement Circuit, run by Frontline Gaming to encorage people to go to their events or use BCP, which is their (excruciatingly bad) tournement software.
I was one of the players, Vespids did not do well
Vespids... yeah. I recommend weighting your dice!
Warp Coven can heal twice with Sorcerer of Tempyrion during a turn (once in activation, once in counteraction)
4D3 healing/TP is a bit much on a 3+/2+ save team with 14 wounds/model (15 for leader)
Counteract is stupidly broken. That it is given to to APL3 factions just makes it worse.
It effectively only have ONE counter … make sure you ALSO have it. Same number of models = no counteracts turn 1.
Not a surprise at all that so many at LVO played into that.
APL3 should be enough of a problem as is and they do not need extra stuff. Part of playing horde is you can throw your chaff at them and save your value for plays when it is just you left and you know the board state for the turn.
I get they tried to avoid the situation where one player turtles half of turn one, then force the elites to waste their eliteness only make the power armor pretty boys look stupid getting shot at.
But removing the one advantage horde has in doing so is lazy and they will eventually need to make two “leagues”. As you said in a video months ago Andy they need one game for elites and another for the rest.
KT18 also got broken when they wanted to sell golden boys and termies and before that Deathwatch ruled because of broken guns.
In KT anything that allow you to bundle and double-down on value in single models breaks when the stratagem costs are not scaled.
It is a pity they did not see that in 40k and they just copy that mess to all the games.
A space marine getting an extra shot is not equal to a guardsman.
Re-rolling a lasgun at 5+ is not the same as re-rolling a bolter at 3+. And the list goes on.
I found the only fix to these GW games is to houserule certain match-ups.
Sure play elites against elites if you really want to. But even better try to match teams according to relative power.
I have had a blast playing guard vs gsc in KT18.
Lots of variety on both sides and as long as you don’t do full plasma spam also pretty balanced.
Psychic action rule seems to be targeted towards warpcoven. Temperyion sorcer could heal 2d3, then counteract heal 2d3 again
Andy, have you also looked at how many of the teams taken or not taken are becoming unclassified next year and whether the potential loss of teams is affecting the tournament scene??
20:22 8 more elites, Hand of the Archon made top 20
Isn't the shortage of Warp Coven because people were expecting a heavy-handed nerf in the Balance Dataslate before the event? Didn't happen, but easily could have.
Just shows that Warpcoven nerfs will hit them harder than Legionary nerfs would have. Meaning Legionary may likely need just as strong or stronger of a nerf.
And I am a player that mains Warpcoven and know that we need to be reigned in quite a bit.
Hoping my Breachers get some love though.
Double hello (unless you are a marine player of any flavor)
Correct hello caveats!
Regarding Inquisition, the issue is that the supports are better in this team than in their initial one, that's a bit nuts.
To me, elites with counteract felt really strong already in the previous edition. Usually got tabled round three when playing with DKoK or Hive Fleet.
I think that's more a compendium issue than an elite issue tbh
@@GlassHalfDead Yeah there was that as well, but the fact hasn't changed that marines could reliably delete W7 models with every activation and overwatch.
You're using compendium team. don't expect too much lol
@@jeancouscous Being Compendium team or not didn’t change how strong bolters and overwatch were.
I was somewhat hoping they would tease the next kill team on the horizon
Definitely curious what the "pros" think the issue is with Exaction. I would never play in a competitive setting, but find them fun to play casually.
Thank you for this analysis! I'm curious to know what team composition BoK players used
He used the same list every time, I believe. 3 banshees, 3 scorps, 2 avengers. I only saw him use the scorpion exarch.
I thought I watched a game of Felgor Ravagers on the Squad Games stream… were there matches that wouldn’t be included here? I don’t think it was a Narrative Match
Edit: Great video by the way! I love the analysis
It's always possible I missed one, I suppose!
First! Superb work as always ;)
@@warka19 I just like making pies!
Tie-breaks were determined on total Victory Points.
I prefer that to strength of schedule, at least!
So, if you have to pick a primary op as your first action in the strategic phase of TP 1, does that mean that Hand of the Archon can't gain a CP in TP 1 or that they can pass after selecting a primary op to gain a CP?
They specifically included language to not disturb the HotA ability. It says that this choosing of the Primary OP as the first Gambit is NOT a chance to pass.
@@mikeymidnite7685 thanks, ran into this situation in a friendly home game this weekend.
Where is this blasted dataslate? Clearly this game needs a balance asap.
Hi, where could I see the results in detail? Do you know anywhere that this is recorded? Or did you get this info by noting it yourself while watching?
Best coast pairings
@@martylund8411 You have a link by any chance? I'd already searched and couldn't find this years
Vespid Stingwings ... More like Stinkwings
nobody called me autistic before :)
I mean hey, maybe it's only me that requires that level of compulsion to play the game 3 times in a week xD
(and that's why I can't win a game in a tournament, so fair play)
I think people are sleeping on how powerful Hunter Clade are, specially ruststalkers because of their cost. Being able to immediately resolve 2 crits at 6 damage because of rending and a cp is crazy. Yeah you have a chance at taking 4, but you can probably trade 2 for 1 in most cases. And if you have 3 or 4, you're going to out value even elite armies. It wouldn't be as bad the -1 to hit stacked with injured, but it ignores that too. There is a guy at my LGS who consistently runs tables with 3 stalkers and a princeps.
I had a look at them early in the edition and I thought they looked totally fine. But then everyone placed them in bottom tier and my local Clade player tried them once and got tabled by Legionary and has now said he refuses to play until GK or nids get released, so... no local Clade players unfortunately :(
@GlassHalfDead if he worked at it a bit, he would be surprised at how good they are. He gives our Legionares and Necrons players a hard time. We have a weekly event and he's usually undefeated.
Played Kelly on game 3. Don’t look me up. Thanks
Rip pathfinders
Yo
@@tylerkister4628 yo-yo!
As someone who runs my LGS's kill team group, and wants to host tournaments in the enw edition? This is not giving me much confidence in balance and diversity of teams...
Hope you like elites!
And then after the elites get nerfed, hope you like eldar!
And then... then it'll probably be all good. It's just how things are. It's a new edition, it's going to be a bit wacky until the second balance patch into the edition.
It's a solid game, but there is a very clear S tier for competitive, and also a very clear S tier for beginner players.
Watching the streams, you see how horrible playing against Warp Coven is and how toxic players can be when playing into them.
Only fellow who seemed unpleasant was the BoK chap.
@ that was my point. Dude seemed on full tilt playing v warp coven, although my buddy who sent me a few more of the streams shows the blades player was not the friendliest opponent throughout.
jesus, again the "no problem" problem. Just force players to print PDF like week/2 weeks before. PDF are easily obtainable officially and judges can have them on their disk. Nothing would be lost.
This video had nothing to do with the digital ruleset, this was just about the results, ty.