Each of the Fasels sounded slightly thinner and a bit muted and the Halo just sounded a little thinner. If it wasnt in a a A/B test I doubt I would have noticed any significant differences between the non-stock options. Overall the stock seemed better, but overall I dont really like WAh's that much and rarely plug mine in anymore. Im sure these differences would be important (or not ) only in respect to your reliance on Wah as part of your sound or your anorakness.
the stock inductor seemed to have less presence than the others. the last wah i bought was the vox clyde mc coy.. i tried 8 and that was the one that day. no idea what is in there. another day may have had a different outcome.
I have had a few different wah pedals with different inductors. The Stuart Castledine halo inductor and the Teese stack of dimes inductor are worlds apart. Try Dunlop CAE or the Crybaby Badass dual inductor wah to see for yourself.
I think each inductor sounded a bit different, but not drastically. I changed the inductor in my gcb95 last month for a halo inductor. If anything, it was good practice in desoldering
Tried this before, and I went back to the stock inductor. Now, change the resistor that controls the Q value (I bumped mine from 33k to 50k), and you’ll see a big difference.
Test would have been better if you compared each, side by side. Instead of clean, then talking, then dirty, then talking, then other inductor talking, then clean, then talking, then dirty, etc... The mind can only retain a sound for a few seconds. I'd have to edit this to get what you're trying to show us. Better: talking, clean vs clean vs clean. Talking, dirty vs dirty vs dirty. Etc. (my .03 cents, adjusted for inflation)
Couldn't tell much difference but i think the red and halo were more of what I like .that being said i have the dunlop 535 q wah with red inductor and the boost and all. I use maybe once every couple of months. Lol .thanks for the video I like these kinda myth buster/true comparison type videos. So much of the gear industry is selling mojo/snake oil /magic rhino powder to make one sound like the tone God's. .be blessed and keep informing us.
A local surplus electronics place - long since closed - had some ferrite-core inductors in a bin for a buck apiece. I bought a few, and a friend measured them for me. They came in at 900mh, with a tap around 800mh. Traditionally, wahs will use something around 500-600mh, so mine was well on the high side. I built myself a wah circuit using the inductor and a Crybaby schematic, thinking it might end up being more suitable for bass. Took a bit to tailor the gain of the first transistor (stock emitter value did NOT work at all), but eventually I nailed it. Much to my great surprise, I got a *very* usable guitar wah sound out of it. My nearest comparison is Jeff Beck's wah tone on the "Truth" and "Rough and Ready" albums. Not an overly wide sweep, like you get here, but plenty expressive. As I recall from RG Keen's participation in ancient forum chats about inductor types, what is distinctive about Fasels and other "stack-of-dimes" inductors is actually not audible at point of installation. Rather, over time and use, the ferrite-core types become magnetized, changing what harmonics get emphasized. At least that's what I recall. It's been many years since we had that discussion. But nice demo.
Hi Mark - A while ago I did extensive testing of wah circuits and of the various inductors. As far as I could tell the ONLY audible differences due to the inductor were differences in inductance and in winding resistance. The original Cry Baby circuit shows the inductor value as 500mH but the actual inductors I sourced all measured as higher than that, most in the 600 to 680mH range. Differences between individual wah wahs are mostly down to tolerance variations in the inductor value, in the sweep capacitor value, in the gain of the transistors and in how acute the angle ground into the back of the treadle happens to be. Over the years the mechanical travel of the pedal varies quite a bit and it varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. The control character of various wahs varies, depending on whether they use an S law control pot (linear over the wah range) or a modified log law. As far as I can tell the original pots were all S law. In most cases trying to adjust the wah range by slipping the rack and pinion back or forwards by a tooth or two gains you nothing because the track resistance of Wah pots flatlines for the first and last 40 degrees of rotation. And in any case, given the course ratio of the gearing, there is little adjustment available before you start to slam the pot wiper up against its end stops. As far the core saturation / magnetisation thing is concerned I couldn't find any evidence for that. Even attaching a fairly strong magnet to the side of the inductors made no audible difference. In any case any distortion due to core saturation would likely be swamped by the inherent distortion of the two transistor circuit, which is itself quite high. I also found that the frequency response of the classic wah circuit is not simply of a bandpass or resonant low pass filter being swept up and down, but is in fact something rather different. In this demo the only obvious difference I heard was with the Yellow Fasel which shifted the entire wah range a little higher. I would guess the Yellow Fasel has a lower inductance than all the other inductors used.
@@ResoBridge Thanks for the reply. Nice to see you here! Like yourself, I think many of the attributions often made to "magical" components found in certain pedals or issues of pedals have a lot more to do with component tolerances than any special properties. Particularly when you consider that comparisons are generally made with ONE instance of the magic-part pedal, rather than multiple instances where qualitative component characteristics can be separated from component-value differences more readily. As I learned from my own build, an "off-spec" component can be adapted to/for by tweaking other component values to achieve the same overall outcome. Wah pot design IS a sort of voodoo. I suspect many users are unaware that the rack-and-pinion or camshaft or string-pulley mechanisms are deliberately designed to avoid rotating the put its full distance, lest the pot be broken under the weight of the user's full body pressure concentrated on that puny pot shaft. And, as product-seekers often find with both wahs and volume pedals, taper can be a very personal taste. The pot taper and range has to work with the mobility of your ankle and how easily one can "work" the few critical degrees of rotation to be expressive. I just finished restoring an old Korg Mr. Multi (great pedal) and the pot taper is annoying. The pedal is both a wah and phaser, that can be operated in direct-sweep mode, or you can use the foot treadle the same way as with a Uni-Vibe to vary the LFO speed of the auto-sweep. The pot taper goes from slow to way-too-fast too easily to be able to mimic ramp-up/ramp-down. I've tried playing with the gear, but can't seem to nail a fastest speed I like. However a resistor between the wiper and one of the outside lugs suggests that the taper can be played with. As for saturation of ferrite-core inductors, the truthfulness of that is well above my pay grade. I'm a psychologist, not an engineer. I'm simply repeating one of the hypotheses discussed, and raised by someone whose judgment on such EE matters I trust. Of course, what can be measured and what can be heard can be two different things.
You can compensate for the measured value of the inductor by adjusting the value of the stock .010 sweep cap. For an 800mH & higher inductor, you could change it to .0068uF. If you have an inductor 450mH and below, start with .015uF & go even higher with lower inductances to compensate.
I hear more warmth and less top end fizz with the stock. The halo had same top end response to the stock but less low end. I prefer the stock one personally. Good video Brian. Thanks :)
That stock inductor is a red fasel inductor. The Dunlop GCB95 Cry Baby Wahs from 2004 onwards come with them stock. The older GCB95 Cry Baby Wahs come with a black trash can shaped Dunlop custom inductor with 4 legs as stock, which quite frankly, does not sound that much different from the red fasel ones. Most likely because Dunlop recreated the sound very closely from the old Thomas Organ Company Wahs when they bought the Cry Baby design back in 1981.
I happen to have a wah with both a yellow and a red Fasels, and there is quite a difference. The red one is more full and vocal, but still I think there is a lot of Voodoo around inductors. The Q2 hfe changes the sound and the Q resistor (33K) does also. It seems like a hfe around 400 and 68K for the resistor is liked by many. Some changes the input buffer (Q1) or bypasses it. There is a lot of info on the net on these things. In my opinion the standards Cry Baby does not sound good stock.
Can i put a cry baby wah wah before the velvet fuzz? Does it affect the tone of the fuzz when the wah is off? Does a cry baby have a buffer in it that messes with the velvet fuzz? To me it changes it to work really differently am I crazy? Appreciate any advice or response.
On the distorted sound, I thought the differences were negligible. On the clean sound, I noticed more high end with the yellow. The other two were more subtle. The heel sounds were nearly identical.
hello how I can eliminate the ssh noise www.electrosmash.com/vox-v847-analysis using the AC/DC adapter in the wha 847?It increases with other effects as distortion and others in the chain. It is possible put 1000 pF ceramic capacitor filter between the power positive input of adapter and the mass (negative) of the pedal? I provided that stabilized power supply and the rest is good. I'll wait your valid suggestion with a schematic diagram. Regards
Hendrix woodstock technician said that he put in a 530uH to 535 uH inductor because it had the best vocal vowel sounding which you can hear it on Red House Live Santa Clara 1969 that the vowel of the hendrix wah was tuned to a certain vowel. The Wah Pot curve is shifting the frequency curve from left to right but the wah pots resistance track has a TAPER which is going to give you a certain profile curve of the sweep frequency so this adds to the vowel of the wah. I have heard that hendrix wah techs would carve a custom resistance track to have a "modified taper" which I do believe was done.
@@waynegram8907 Are you talking about Dave Weyer? There's alot of controversy surround the 'Woodstock Wah' - think its been pretty much debunked that it couldn't have been the one because of the TDK inductor in it.
@@3rdtonefromthesun yes the TDK RED Inductor is 530mH to 550mH but dunlop Engineers said that 535mH is the most vocal they found its called 535. Dave Weyer added a resistor also to change the output impedance to make it more vocal sweep to work with the fuzz face. His amps were modified by organ repair techs for woodstock
I have a thomas organ wah with a TDK inductor, I think it sounds better than any of the dunlop wahs I tried... It could be the inductor's value more so than the inductor type itself. Some people claim to hear a difference between ceramic and other capacitor types... who knows.
This comparison was a waste of time, everyone knows that Fasel's sound best at a new moon and Halo's fluctuate in quality on a 7 year cycle that just happened to peak in 1968
You dont know what you are talking about...simple. You heard a comparison between red & yellow Fasel. I dont even know if they are really electronically different. But compare any modern wah with a old italian vox wah and then tell me about new moon
@@rikardocarvalho Yes they sound better, and I think is has something to do with transistors with lower amplification, especially Q1 in a VOX, and Q2 in a Cry Baby, and no one seems to care that the CB has an input buffer which the VOX does not have. It surely does something for the input impedance, but also for the overall sound. More shriek and less vocalism 🙂
in defense of inductors ... you probably haven't yet used a lower gain transistor in that crybaby ... the mpsa18 is just overkill in there and switching to lower gain transistors allowed a lot of the other changes I made to my wah become more apparent.
The differences were subtle, I think I discerned something with my ears only once, but my fingers weren't on the strings. Good tip on the gain, maybe a bias adjustment could be used there. Some folks collect drives or fuzzes, I think I may be doomed to own every wah. Could be worse though.
yeah ... whether you re-bias what is in there or just go with lower gain devices, that's where I would start then see where it goes. I'd definitely use up all my knowledge and parts bin before I ponied up the dough for a fancy inductor or allegedly ICAR taper pot
I feel no particular inclination to duplicate the sounds of the past, but it seems like I feel a compulsion to squander vast resources to explore this very minor quibble of tone. This, and rectifier voltage sag. little things.
In my opinion if there were any differences between these inductors, they were negligible. They all sounded pretty similar. I am happy with the stock N30 inductor in my early 90s Vox wah reissue. It sounds like a wah!
@@auntjenifer7774 Yes the VOX 847 wah pedal I have was made in the US. I got it around 1993 when they first reissued them. I think at the time Vox contracted out the manufacturing to Dunlop and were made at the Dunlop factory in California.
Hello friend! Great video! Can you help me? I Want to do some tests as you do, But I Dont know if inductors have polarity… my Wah is a vox v846hw, and I Want to add yellow and Red fasel with a switch tô select. Can you help me? Sorry for my bad english
Major takeaways: 1). I'll never be satisfied with any component comparison that doesn't include a breadboard. That is absolutely awesome and a great idea and certainly helps cut through the BS. 2). That Revv pedal coupled with the waw is amazing. Love the show, love the channel. Thanks \m/ Oh, and 3), no major difference between inductors that i can perceive, all things being equal. Leads me to wonder if you have discovered any wah mods that actually make a difference?
I did the same thing. I built a wah with a red Fasel, a Halo and a stock Dunlop inductors wired to a rotary switch and did some blind testing, and my favorite was the stock one: imho it has the best sweep, and cuts through the mix better with distortion. I hated the fasel, thin and uninspiring. The halo was cool, with a mid-bass focus, but was microphonic at higher volumes!
I think I heard it the same way you described it. I wasn't so down on the sound of the yellow one; I was thinking it would be cool for a clean, non-lead blues, country, or funk part that isn't supposed to cut through a mix, although I might like to hear it on bass in a parallel setup, just to see. I liked the extra feedback on the Halo; was that caused by microphonics, or just a boosted frequency range? I thought it was the latter, but I'm not an expert.
Hurricane clips make great toggle mounts! 🤣 I was thinking, Brian's got a killer little breadboard setup and then my brain kicked in from building houses to realize... I'm an idiot. Hot dipped, galvanized hurricane clips.
A looot of allegedly NOS parts are Asian counterfeits. Some people are happy with their 3-ct Chinese diode sold as a "ultra-rare NOS dark glass Russian military grade Schottky diodes pre-owned by Hendrix's nephew's roommate".
Interesting that you heard the biggest different with the Halo. I heard the least difference with that one. It sounded very similar to the stock inductor, but more "refined" (that's the only way I can think to put it). The yellow Fasel sounded a little thinner, with more treble response, while the red Fasel sounded like it had less highs and a little low end hump. Overall, I can see why Dunlop uses the inductor they use as stock. It sounds right down the middle to my ears. Different players might want dislike either the red or yellow Fasel, but the stock one is more likely to please everyone.
Subtle difference. Nothing I'd notice in the heat of the moment....nor would the drunk guy yelling "PLAY SOME SKYNARD!!!!" Wah's a Wah. Cork Sniffing is better left in your home office ;). Dig these videos sir. Would love to see some Big Muff mod vids with this level of intricacy.
i built my own wah... around the guts of a crybaby. It started as rehousing, shrink the original massive size to a more pedalboard friendly size. (mind you, that time mini wahs were not widely available on the market. And the mini crybaby has SMD components which is super difficult to mod) www.robchapman.tv/forum/threads/rehouseing-a-pedal-try-a-wah.31450/
Gee. Brian Wampler testing wah inductors to see what sounds good. Just 'cause he had all those wah parts laying around. Three days before NAMM. ... Please let there be a Wahmpler at NAMM, is what I'm saying.
@@wampler_pedals thank you for being such a huge part of the guitar community and such an inspiration for future generations! Your guitar skills and circuitry knowledge is indeed wizardry sir!!! I actually bought one of your tumnus pedals used at gc a few years ago. It's become the butter to my sound. It's got the juice. And at a fraction of the cost of the other juice. Lol. Keep doing what you do man. Anytime I have a need for a new pedal I'm looking wamplers way!!!
We need more Boutique Wah options. All the Crybaby’s are microphonic. The Xotic XW1 sounds thin, lifeless and cheap. The Friedman 72 has a very poor quality housing and switch. It would be cool if someone like Martin Kidd or Brian himself here would make a Wah, but for some reason, all the most talented gear makers seem to avoid the Wah department. A Victory Wah would be the end all be all, and put others to shame. Martin is very good with circuits and has a perfect ear.
Yellow had a higher high, or maybe a harmonic creeping in. Red(if you ignore the noise) was very similar to stock. Halo? IDK, it just seemed louder in the mids.
I can't hear hardly any difference at all my brotha.....must say I was suprised I thought my ears were pretty good.... interesting that no one pays any attention to the TDK 5103 Inductor. What do you think? I'm gonna give it another listen. Thanks for the Video Bro!!
Are you sure the stock inductor isn't already a red Fasel? It looks like it is anyway. I know the modern Crybay now comes stock with the red Fasel, and the internals of your pedal certainly looked the same as mine. Also, I thought they sounded very similar too. As far as the other inductors are concerned, I definitely hear a difference, nothing major, but definitely different. Personally I thought the yellow Fasel on the clean tone had the biggest difference, in a way it seemed to scoop the mids out slightly and boost more of the highs and lows as it swept.
I have the Red Fasel inductor in the CAE wah and it sounds a bit dark even a little muffled. Here's the interesting part, I have the 535Q which also has the same Red inductor and it sounds great. Lucky the CAE also has the Yellow inductor and that also sounds really good. Of course this is all based on the guitar and PU's I use, which is my point. What sounds good in one set up, might not cut it in another. And the most important point is definitely use the old style carbon based batteries, you may find the pedal you gave up on actually does sound good after all.
sorry this really doesn't have anything to do with inductors or this video for that matter. But I noticed you always explain how it is noisy when you breadboard because it's all out in the open. Well I breadboard inside of a metal terminal box that has a lid, that way I can place the components that I need to place easily I even can mouth Jack's and switches in the side and then close the lid and it is completely and closed and grounded Faraday Style just like a pedal enclosure. You should try modifying your breadboard assembly so it's some kind of a hinge top metal box
Which one did you like better Brian? I think with the high gain the Red Fasel sounds better ( probably why it was Zakk Wylde's choice). But for mild gain the Halo probably sounded best, a smaller sweep that doesnt go so high and so low. Mild overdrive would better get better result as the distortion masks the wah effect a bit. How would you compare them Brian?
I definitely liked the halo the best. I have an old crybaby that I snipped a resistor on years ago to make it do kind of a volume swell thing that I have been thinking about replacing that resistor on. Maybe I’ll throw in one of these inductors too…why not??? Thanks man!
Would help when you would substitute your talking between comparisons to straight comparing and just write the model nr. of the inductor with values on the screen. Otherwise you can't really compare when the two clips are so far apart. And mentioning the inductance is important so one can make connections between heard clip and certain value.
It sounded like the filter Q was a bit narrower with the aftermarket inductors; maybe the frequency range was shifted a little higher too. I found the aftermarket inductors kind of peaky and unpleasant with distortion.
Between Halo and stock there's no diference at all. But those fasel really change something. To me sounds more like they change the way de filters sweep. could be interest analize that with an analizer spectrum. But at the end i can hear the diference is so so so subtle.
Very interesting experiment....my take away is I didn't hear enough of a difference in either direction and actually thought the stock was just fine. Thank you for making the video fun watch.
I always love your films .. Gr8 to know .. I'm not wrong .. I keep trying to find a wah that sounds like what I've heard on records & then as I found out nearly everybody has had them modified or is using some kind of additional ' Thing ' of their own to make it work .. But I now own four wah's all disappointing in one way or the other & again not mentioning names but it was / is an old multi fx with the expression pedal & a combo of sounds that comes closest .. especially on a sound called " fusion Rock " which makes the wah work in a random fashion but when it works out right it's perfect .. kind of an auto wah very hit & miss .. but boy when it comes right in time with a riff it can sound amazing .. also it has an element of like a voice box 'envelope' ? .. still that's why playing gtr is still fun .. gotta say you were making some really nice sounds on that Blue Tele.. Cheers .. Good vibes to you & all the wampler Tribe .. See you at NAMM ? .. not personally but .. being interviewed ? .. cheers from the old dud who lives in Ye olde Forest in Englande ..
I had to repair a wah pedal last year. The fault was that it worked more like a volume than a wah. Sure enough that was the case. So I downloaded the schematic and came to the conclusion that the inductor was faulty. Pulled it out and it was a low resistance which I kind of expected. I don't have an L meter so swapped the inductor from my wah and it worked as advertised on the box. Didn't expect an inductor to fail. I could only get a yellow fazel so put that in. Has anyone else had them fail?
Maybe it's all mental, but I heard more of a difference when you sweeped it while playing rather than just testing the heel and toe. I have a CB Classic which I believe has are Fasel inductor in it. While I have heard better wahs, for the price I think it has one of the best sweeps and one of the most versatile tones that is chill enough to be used over a clean tone and edgy enough to be used on dirt.
It basically only changes the q sweep as shifts the resonance frequency between the inductor and the capacitor. To see a more dramatic change, you need to change the mH value of the inductor more dramatically.
i switched the red inductor from my cae wah to a fulltone inductor. Made the world of different to that mode. Since the wah has 2 inductors its quick to a/b them
Thanks Brian. This is a rabbit hole I have been jumping around in for the past year, but without your skills and resources. I got a Jext Telez White Pedal and it changed my life. Then I got a Spectrum SP-1 and am definitely in search of alternative players for that slot. (hint, hint). I actually have not gotten a wah yet, but after looking into it, I was thinking I want to mod it with a rotary switch and about five inductors built into it. Daunting and costly FTW! I didn't like the dodgy capacitors-only band pass for the compression drivers in my Super Beatle cabinet and I am running an Ashly active crossover until I figure out which sort of crossover or band pass I will use. It is very costly to purchase inductors as you mentioned, I guess I should get a winding machine.😸
Definitely not worth the cost for such a subtle difference in tone, the stock inductor sounded as good as any of the others(although slightly different) and of course, not as much feedback as the halo
Unfortunately. I watched/listened on my phone. But I heard nothing. I will try to give a listen with better audio again though. How are your goats dealing with this cold
Stock sounded like it had more lows, then red fasel then yellow having the least amount of lows. Halo sounded best to me but not a huge difference. Sounded smoother for some reason. Cool video Brian. Thanks for the enlightenment
The differences are very subtle but,I like the red Fasel and the Halo better than the others.I like the red the best,it seems to be more clear sounding.
I've got the custom audio wah with the red and yellow fasels, I'm using the yellow fasel setting to get a good top treble end I even turned the pot in the pedal so I'd get more top on the toe down. Would changing the potentiometer to a more higher one give it a more treble tone?
Great demonstration! I definitely heard a difference, even on my phone's speaker. The yellow was thinner and lower in volume overall--probably good for country. The red seemed to have more midrange, but wasn't louder overall. The halo was close to stock, but had an extra peak frequency (static, not moving) that I heard before the feedback confirmed its presence. Does anyone make a wah with switchable inductors, or to where they can be combined in different ways to get different values? I'm curious about the possibilities.
Do you think the inductors sounded different from each other?
Nope, not at all....just like the whole JRC4558 legend....it's all hype.
Each of the Fasels sounded slightly thinner and a bit muted and the Halo just sounded a little thinner. If it wasnt in a a A/B test I doubt I would have noticed any significant differences between the non-stock options. Overall the stock seemed better, but overall I dont really like WAh's that much and rarely plug mine in anymore. Im sure these differences would be important (or not ) only in respect to your reliance on Wah as part of your sound or your anorakness.
Nope. More snake oil I guess. Halo master chief version should be best though.
@@BeefNEggs057 Err - its all snake oil but the Halo should be better? {:o)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxymoron
the stock inductor seemed to have less presence than the others. the last wah i bought was the vox clyde mc coy.. i tried 8 and that was the one that day. no idea what is in there. another day may have had a different outcome.
I could not tell the difference from any. If there is, its super subtle.
I have had a few different wah pedals with different inductors. The Stuart Castledine halo inductor and the Teese stack of dimes inductor are worlds apart. Try Dunlop CAE or the Crybaby Badass dual inductor wah to see for yourself.
I think each inductor sounded a bit different, but not drastically. I changed the inductor in my gcb95 last month for a halo inductor. If anything, it was good practice in desoldering
Tried this before, and I went back to the stock inductor. Now, change the resistor that controls the Q value (I bumped mine from 33k to 50k), and you’ll see a big difference.
For those of us who are electronically challenged, which one is it?
@@darthslater6077 On the circuit diagram, it's right next to the inductor
or get the 535Q instead ;)
Do you have the tutorial??
I actually preferred the stock :-) Thanks for this type of comparison, it's really helpful!
Is it just me or does anyone else have an involuntary reaction to whah sounds where your mouth makes whah shapes?
Me too! It’s so weird. I’ve noticed most guitarists move their mouths when soloing or playing licks as well.
Test would have been better if you compared each, side by side. Instead of clean, then talking, then dirty, then talking, then other inductor talking, then clean, then talking, then dirty, etc... The mind can only retain a sound for a few seconds. I'd have to edit this to get what you're trying to show us. Better: talking, clean vs clean vs clean. Talking, dirty vs dirty vs dirty. Etc. (my .03 cents, adjusted for inflation)
In the circuits of those pedals some resistors and capacitors made more effect in the sound than the inductor itself.
Yellow fasel sounded "thinner" to me. All the rest sound pretty much the same
MythWamplers
Kirk Hammett, are you listening?!?!?!
Pedal Mythbusters: Inductor Edition! Great video.
Couldn't tell much difference but i think the red and halo were more of what I like .that being said i have the dunlop 535 q wah with red inductor and the boost and all. I use maybe once every couple of months. Lol .thanks for the video I like these kinda myth buster/true comparison type videos. So much of the gear industry is selling mojo/snake oil /magic rhino powder to make one sound like the tone God's. .be blessed and keep informing us.
I feel à breakpoint in the sweep of my crybaby, is not that progressive and smooth curve, what can I do for improve that? Thank you
Probably a new potentiometer. MAYBE clean it but it’s probably worn.
Sick MetalZone shirt
Thank you for your service to the guitar community. I enjoy watching your videos, and you and your wife are very humble folks.
A local surplus electronics place - long since closed - had some ferrite-core inductors in a bin for a buck apiece. I bought a few, and a friend measured them for me. They came in at 900mh, with a tap around 800mh. Traditionally, wahs will use something around 500-600mh, so mine was well on the high side. I built myself a wah circuit using the inductor and a Crybaby schematic, thinking it might end up being more suitable for bass. Took a bit to tailor the gain of the first transistor (stock emitter value did NOT work at all), but eventually I nailed it. Much to my great surprise, I got a *very* usable guitar wah sound out of it. My nearest comparison is Jeff Beck's wah tone on the "Truth" and "Rough and Ready" albums. Not an overly wide sweep, like you get here, but plenty expressive.
As I recall from RG Keen's participation in ancient forum chats about inductor types, what is distinctive about Fasels and other "stack-of-dimes" inductors is actually not audible at point of installation. Rather, over time and use, the ferrite-core types become magnetized, changing what harmonics get emphasized. At least that's what I recall. It's been many years since we had that discussion.
But nice demo.
Hi Mark - A while ago I did extensive testing of wah circuits and of the various inductors. As far as I could tell the ONLY audible differences due to the inductor were differences in inductance and in winding resistance. The original Cry Baby circuit shows the inductor value as 500mH but the actual inductors I sourced all measured as higher than that, most in the 600 to 680mH range. Differences between individual wah wahs are mostly down to tolerance variations in the inductor value, in the sweep capacitor value, in the gain of the transistors and in how acute the angle ground into the back of the treadle happens to be. Over the years the mechanical travel of the pedal varies quite a bit and it varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. The control character of various wahs varies, depending on whether they use an S law control pot (linear over the wah range) or a modified log law. As far as I can tell the original pots were all S law.
In most cases trying to adjust the wah range by slipping the rack and pinion back or forwards by a tooth or two gains you nothing because the track resistance of Wah pots flatlines for the first and last 40 degrees of rotation. And in any case, given the course ratio of the gearing, there is little adjustment available before you start to slam the pot wiper up against its end stops.
As far the core saturation / magnetisation thing is concerned I couldn't find any evidence for that. Even attaching a fairly strong magnet to the side of the inductors made no audible difference. In any case any distortion due to core saturation would likely be swamped by the inherent distortion of the two transistor circuit, which is itself quite high. I also found that the frequency response of the classic wah circuit is not simply of a bandpass or resonant low pass filter being swept up and down, but is in fact something rather different.
In this demo the only obvious difference I heard was with the Yellow Fasel which shifted the entire wah range a little higher. I would guess the Yellow Fasel has a lower inductance than all the other inductors used.
@@ResoBridge Thanks for the reply. Nice to see you here! Like yourself, I think many of the attributions often made to "magical" components found in certain pedals or issues of pedals have a lot more to do with component tolerances than any special properties. Particularly when you consider that comparisons are generally made with ONE instance of the magic-part pedal, rather than multiple instances where qualitative component characteristics can be separated from component-value differences more readily. As I learned from my own build, an "off-spec" component can be adapted to/for by tweaking other component values to achieve the same overall outcome.
Wah pot design IS a sort of voodoo. I suspect many users are unaware that the rack-and-pinion or camshaft or string-pulley mechanisms are deliberately designed to avoid rotating the put its full distance, lest the pot be broken under the weight of the user's full body pressure concentrated on that puny pot shaft. And, as product-seekers often find with both wahs and volume pedals, taper can be a very personal taste. The pot taper and range has to work with the mobility of your ankle and how easily one can "work" the few critical degrees of rotation to be expressive. I just finished restoring an old Korg Mr. Multi (great pedal) and the pot taper is annoying. The pedal is both a wah and phaser, that can be operated in direct-sweep mode, or you can use the foot treadle the same way as with a Uni-Vibe to vary the LFO speed of the auto-sweep. The pot taper goes from slow to way-too-fast too easily to be able to mimic ramp-up/ramp-down. I've tried playing with the gear, but can't seem to nail a fastest speed I like. However a resistor between the wiper and one of the outside lugs suggests that the taper can be played with.
As for saturation of ferrite-core inductors, the truthfulness of that is well above my pay grade. I'm a psychologist, not an engineer. I'm simply repeating one of the hypotheses discussed, and raised by someone whose judgment on such EE matters I trust. Of course, what can be measured and what can be heard can be two different things.
You can compensate for the measured value of the inductor by adjusting the value of the stock .010 sweep cap.
For an 800mH & higher inductor, you could change it to .0068uF.
If you have an inductor 450mH and below, start with .015uF & go even higher with lower inductances to compensate.
@@markmarshall7939 Thanks for that. Useful info.
isnt the stock already a red fasel？
I hear more warmth and less top end fizz with the stock. The halo had same top end response to the stock but less low end. I prefer the stock one personally. Good video Brian. Thanks :)
That stock inductor is a red fasel inductor. The Dunlop GCB95 Cry Baby Wahs from 2004 onwards come with them stock. The older GCB95 Cry Baby Wahs come with a black trash can shaped Dunlop custom inductor with 4 legs as stock, which quite frankly, does not sound that much different from the red fasel ones. Most likely because Dunlop recreated the sound very closely from the old Thomas Organ Company Wahs when they bought the Cry Baby design back in 1981.
I happen to have a wah with both a yellow and a red Fasels, and there is quite a difference. The red one is more full and vocal, but still I think there is a lot of Voodoo around
inductors. The Q2 hfe changes the sound and the Q resistor (33K) does also. It seems like a hfe around 400 and 68K for the resistor is liked by many. Some changes the
input buffer (Q1) or bypasses it. There is a lot of info on the net on these things. In my opinion the standards Cry Baby does not sound good stock.
Can i put a cry baby wah wah before the velvet fuzz? Does it affect the tone of the fuzz when the wah is off? Does a cry baby have a buffer in it that messes with the velvet fuzz? To me it changes it to work really differently am I crazy? Appreciate any advice or response.
On the distorted sound, I thought the differences were negligible. On the clean sound, I noticed more high end with the yellow. The other two were more subtle. The heel sounds were nearly identical.
hello
how I can eliminate the ssh noise www.electrosmash.com/vox-v847-analysis using the AC/DC adapter
in the wha 847?It increases with other effects as distortion and others in the chain.
It is possible put 1000 pF ceramic capacitor filter between the power positive input of adapter and the
mass (negative) of the pedal?
I provided that stabilized power supply and the rest is good.
I'll wait your valid suggestion with a schematic diagram.
Regards
You just invented a new type of wha... a "selectable inductor"; Put 3 inductors in a wah, and a rotary selector switch to switch between them...
Could not hear much difference, not enough to give up my Dunlop Cry Baby.
I don't hear any drastic difference. All sound amazing!
Hendrix woodstock technician said that he put in a 530uH to 535 uH inductor because it had the best vocal vowel sounding which you can hear it on Red House Live Santa Clara 1969 that the vowel of the hendrix wah was tuned to a certain vowel. The Wah Pot curve is shifting the frequency curve from left to right but the wah pots resistance track has a TAPER which is going to give you a certain profile curve of the sweep frequency so this adds to the vowel of the wah. I have heard that hendrix wah techs would carve a custom resistance track to have a "modified taper" which I do believe was done.
Where have you heard that?
@@3rdtonefromthesun his Woodstock repair tech his amps were modified also for Woodstock
@@waynegram8907 Are you talking about Dave Weyer? There's alot of controversy surround the 'Woodstock Wah' - think its been pretty much debunked that it couldn't have been the one because of the TDK inductor in it.
@@3rdtonefromthesun yes the TDK RED Inductor is 530mH to 550mH but dunlop Engineers said that 535mH is the most vocal they found its called 535. Dave Weyer added a resistor also to change the output impedance to make it more vocal sweep to work with the fuzz face. His amps were modified by organ repair techs for woodstock
How do I get that nasally Jimmy Page wah sound ? What did you notice with the 33 vs 50 - q sweep ?
I own a Vox HW wah and a Dunlop CB GCB-95 and I wanna know what makes them sound so different from each other.
The Halo sounds smooth and thicker than the rest. Red Fasel isn't bad either. Yellow was least impressive.
Get the one from 60-s or 70-s and you will forget about modern ones..
Oh no! Dan from TPS was talking about doing almost this same thing on an upcoming vlog today on their video. Hopefully he's not too sad ;)
If I put quality seasonings on a rotten chicken, will it taste better?
If so I will sell you that rotten chicken.
This was very cool, but maybe you could use a looper pedal? so you get the exact same performance every time
I have a thomas organ wah with a TDK inductor, I think it sounds better than any of the dunlop wahs I tried... It could be the inductor's value more so than the inductor type itself.
Some people claim to hear a difference between ceramic and other capacitor types... who knows.
Thanks for the vid but far too much talking, makes the differences hard to discern
This comparison was a waste of time, everyone knows that Fasel's sound best at a new moon and Halo's fluctuate in quality on a 7 year cycle that just happened to peak in 1968
You dont know what you are talking about...simple. You heard a comparison between red & yellow Fasel. I dont even know if they are really electronically different. But compare any modern wah with a old italian vox wah and then tell me about new moon
@@rikardocarvalho Yes they sound better, and I think is has something to do with transistors with lower amplification, especially Q1 in a VOX, and Q2 in a Cry Baby,
and no one seems to care that the CB has an input buffer which the VOX does not have. It surely does something for the input impedance, but also for the overall
sound. More shriek and less vocalism 🙂
in defense of inductors ... you probably haven't yet used a lower gain transistor in that crybaby ... the mpsa18 is just overkill in there and switching to lower gain transistors allowed a lot of the other changes I made to my wah become more apparent.
The differences were subtle, I think I discerned something with my ears only once, but my fingers weren't on the strings. Good tip on the gain, maybe a bias adjustment could be used there. Some folks collect drives or fuzzes, I think I may be doomed to own every wah. Could be worse though.
yeah ... whether you re-bias what is in there or just go with lower gain devices, that's where I would start then see where it goes. I'd definitely use up all my knowledge and parts bin before I ponied up the dough for a fancy inductor or allegedly ICAR taper pot
I feel no particular inclination to duplicate the sounds of the past, but it seems like I feel a compulsion to squander vast resources to explore this very minor quibble of tone. This, and rectifier voltage sag. little things.
The expensive inductors seem to add some harmonics to the notes. Not a huge amount but just enough.
In my opinion if there were any differences between these inductors, they were negligible. They all sounded pretty similar. I am happy with the stock N30 inductor in my early 90s Vox wah reissue. It sounds like a wah!
Life of a bluesman * were those made on the USA ?
@@auntjenifer7774 Yes the VOX 847 wah pedal I have was made in the US. I got it around 1993 when they first reissued them. I think at the time Vox contracted out the manufacturing to Dunlop and were made at the Dunlop factory in California.
Hello friend! Great video! Can you help me? I Want to do some tests as you do, But I Dont know if inductors have polarity… my Wah is a vox v846hw, and I Want to add yellow and Red fasel with a switch tô select. Can you help me? Sorry for my bad english
A little late, but an inductor is just a coil, so you can turn it how you want to.
No. Buy the wah that sounds the way you want it to.
Major takeaways: 1). I'll never be satisfied with any component comparison that doesn't include a breadboard. That is absolutely awesome and a great idea and certainly helps cut through the BS. 2). That Revv pedal coupled with the waw is amazing. Love the show, love the channel. Thanks \m/ Oh, and 3), no major difference between inductors that i can perceive, all things being equal. Leads me to wonder if you have discovered any wah mods that actually make a difference?
I did the same thing. I built a wah with a red Fasel, a Halo and a stock Dunlop inductors wired to a rotary switch and did some blind testing, and my favorite was the stock one: imho it has the best sweep, and cuts through the mix better with distortion. I hated the fasel, thin and uninspiring. The halo was cool, with a mid-bass focus, but was microphonic at higher volumes!
then try the yellow one. I though it won't be good for me as i am/was not after vintage tones. but I prefer the yellow anyway.
I think I heard it the same way you described it. I wasn't so down on the sound of the yellow one; I was thinking it would be cool for a clean, non-lead blues, country, or funk part that isn't supposed to cut through a mix, although I might like to hear it on bass in a parallel setup, just to see. I liked the extra feedback on the Halo; was that caused by microphonics, or just a boosted frequency range? I thought it was the latter, but I'm not an expert.
@@robcerasuolo9207 Mine was definitely microphonic - it would squeal when the pedalboard was directly in front of the amp.
its so f en small of a differnce it reall dont matter only tech heade that hear it like tone wood
Inductor: mHenrius. Capacitor: uFarad, resistor: ohms.
Funny 🙂
change q value, not inductor. thank me later
Hurricane clips make great toggle mounts! 🤣 I was thinking, Brian's got a killer little breadboard setup and then my brain kicked in from building houses to realize... I'm an idiot.
Hot dipped, galvanized hurricane clips.
Para mí , suena mejor el original .
A looot of allegedly NOS parts are Asian counterfeits.
Some people are happy with their 3-ct Chinese diode sold as a "ultra-rare NOS dark glass Russian military grade Schottky diodes pre-owned by Hendrix's nephew's roommate".
Interesting that you heard the biggest different with the Halo. I heard the least difference with that one. It sounded very similar to the stock inductor, but more "refined" (that's the only way I can think to put it).
The yellow Fasel sounded a little thinner, with more treble response, while the red Fasel sounded like it had less highs and a little low end hump.
Overall, I can see why Dunlop uses the inductor they use as stock. It sounds right down the middle to my ears. Different players might want dislike either the red or yellow Fasel, but the stock one is more likely to please everyone.
If antone ever asks me if they should change their inductors the answer will be a resounding "no!".
Subtle difference. Nothing I'd notice in the heat of the moment....nor would the drunk guy yelling "PLAY SOME SKYNARD!!!!" Wah's a Wah. Cork Sniffing is better left in your home office ;). Dig these videos sir. Would love to see some Big Muff mod vids with this level of intricacy.
i built my own wah... around the guts of a crybaby. It started as rehousing, shrink the original massive size to a more pedalboard friendly size. (mind you, that time mini wahs were not widely available on the market. And the mini crybaby has SMD components which is super difficult to mod)
www.robchapman.tv/forum/threads/rehouseing-a-pedal-try-a-wah.31450/
Gee. Brian Wampler testing wah inductors to see what sounds good. Just 'cause he had all those wah parts laying around. Three days before NAMM.
...
Please let there be a Wahmpler at NAMM, is what I'm saying.
I'm a giant fan of wampler just because of your attitude, teaching abilities, and personality. And, well, the tumnus is legendary.
Thanks for the kind words 😊
@@wampler_pedals thank you for being such a huge part of the guitar community and such an inspiration for future generations! Your guitar skills and circuitry knowledge is indeed wizardry sir!!! I actually bought one of your tumnus pedals used at gc a few years ago. It's become the butter to my sound. It's got the juice. And at a fraction of the cost of the other juice. Lol. Keep doing what you do man. Anytime I have a need for a new pedal I'm looking wamplers way!!!
We need more Boutique Wah options. All the Crybaby’s are microphonic. The Xotic XW1 sounds thin, lifeless and cheap. The Friedman 72 has a very poor quality housing and switch.
It would be cool if someone like Martin Kidd or Brian himself here would make a Wah, but for some reason, all the most talented gear makers seem to avoid the Wah department. A Victory Wah would be the end all be all, and put others to shame. Martin is very good with circuits and has a perfect ear.
Never say never 😉
Wampler Pedals Oooohhhhh boy!
Yellow had a higher high, or maybe a harmonic creeping in. Red(if you ignore the noise) was very similar to stock. Halo? IDK, it just seemed louder in the mids.
I can't hear hardly any difference at all my brotha.....must say I was suprised I thought my ears were pretty good.... interesting that no one pays any attention to the TDK 5103 Inductor. What do you think? I'm gonna give it another listen. Thanks for the Video Bro!!
changing the inductor won't have much effect unless you use a tropical fish cap for the sweep. no, jk.
I couldn’t hear much off a difference on the heel and toe test. But felt the fasel had a nice sweep. However I’ll stick with my stock crybaby too.
You can also check some mini transformers that measure more or less 500mH and you're good to go. Why spend stupid money just for a coil?
Are you sure the stock inductor isn't already a red Fasel? It looks like it is anyway. I know the modern Crybay now comes stock with the red Fasel, and the internals of your pedal certainly looked the same as mine. Also, I thought they sounded very similar too. As far as the other inductors are concerned, I definitely hear a difference, nothing major, but definitely different. Personally I thought the yellow Fasel on the clean tone had the biggest difference, in a way it seemed to scoop the mids out slightly and boost more of the highs and lows as it swept.
I have the Red Fasel inductor in the CAE wah and it sounds a bit dark even a little muffled. Here's the interesting part, I have the 535Q which also has the same Red inductor and it sounds great. Lucky the CAE also has the Yellow inductor and that also sounds really good. Of course this is all based on the guitar and PU's I use, which is my point. What sounds good in one set up, might not cut it in another. And the most important point is definitely use the old style carbon based batteries, you may find the pedal you gave up on actually does sound good after all.
sorry this really doesn't have anything to do with inductors or this video for that matter. But I noticed you always explain how it is noisy when you breadboard because it's all out in the open. Well I breadboard inside of a metal terminal box that has a lid, that way I can place the components that I need to place easily I even can mouth Jack's and switches in the side and then close the lid and it is completely and closed and grounded Faraday Style just like a pedal enclosure. You should try modifying your breadboard assembly so it's some kind of a hinge top metal box
Which one did you like better Brian? I think with the high gain the Red Fasel sounds better ( probably why it was Zakk Wylde's choice). But for mild gain the Halo probably sounded best, a smaller sweep that doesnt go so high and so low.
Mild overdrive would better get better result as the distortion masks the wah effect a bit.
How would you compare them Brian?
Does Wampler make a wah pedal?
I definitely liked the halo the best. I have an old crybaby that I snipped a resistor on years ago to make it do kind of a volume swell thing that I have been thinking about replacing that resistor on. Maybe I’ll throw in one of these inductors too…why not??? Thanks man!
Would help when you would substitute your talking between comparisons to straight comparing and just write the model nr. of the inductor with values on the screen. Otherwise you can't really compare when the two clips are so far apart. And mentioning the inductance is important so one can make connections between heard clip and certain value.
Very subtle. There was a small difference in how quickly it wah'ed with the Halo. Otherwise once you pile the dirt. The difference almost vanishes.
It sounded like the filter Q was a bit narrower with the aftermarket inductors; maybe the frequency range was
shifted a little higher too. I found the aftermarket inductors kind of peaky and unpleasant with distortion.
Between Halo and stock there's no diference at all. But those fasel really change something. To me sounds more like they change the way de filters sweep. could be interest analize that with an analizer spectrum. But at the end i can hear the diference is so so so subtle.
My GCB95 came with the red fasel (post revision H version). Got it at GC used for $35!!! Sounds great!!😎
thanks for this
just thinking about inductor upgrades on my old 847
Very interesting experiment....my take away is I didn't hear enough of a difference in either direction and actually thought the stock was just fine. Thank you for making the video fun watch.
I always love your films .. Gr8 to know .. I'm not wrong .. I keep trying to find a wah that sounds like what I've heard on records & then as I found out nearly everybody has had them modified or is using some kind of additional ' Thing ' of their own to make it work .. But I now own four wah's all disappointing in one way or the other & again not mentioning names but it was / is an old multi fx with the expression pedal & a combo of sounds that comes closest .. especially on a sound called " fusion Rock " which makes the wah work in a random fashion but when it works out right it's perfect .. kind of an auto wah very hit & miss .. but boy when it comes right in time with a riff it can sound amazing .. also it has an element of like a voice box 'envelope' ? .. still that's why playing gtr is still fun .. gotta say you were making some really nice sounds on that Blue Tele.. Cheers .. Good vibes to you & all the wampler Tribe .. See you at NAMM ? .. not personally but .. being interviewed ? .. cheers from the old dud who lives in Ye olde Forest in Englande ..
Great sounds..I am looking for a waah and volume pedal any suggestions?
I had to repair a wah pedal last year. The fault was that it worked more like a volume than a wah. Sure enough that was the case. So I downloaded the schematic and came to the conclusion that the inductor was faulty. Pulled it out and it was a low resistance which I kind of expected. I don't have an L meter so swapped the inductor from my wah and it worked as advertised on the box. Didn't expect an inductor to fail. I could only get a yellow fazel so put that in. Has anyone else had them fail?
Barely any difference.
Maybe it's all mental, but I heard more of a difference when you sweeped it while playing rather than just testing the heel and toe. I have a CB Classic which I believe has are Fasel inductor in it. While I have heard better wahs, for the price I think it has one of the best sweeps and one of the most versatile tones that is chill enough to be used over a clean tone and edgy enough to be used on dirt.
Over a year later. I listened to this on Genelec 1032As. Not a lot of difference. Super subtle at most.
Fasels were not much different. Maybe a lttle milder than stock. Halo had a bit of vibe I think.
It basically only changes the q sweep as shifts the resonance frequency between the inductor and the capacitor. To see a more dramatic change, you need to change the mH value of the inductor more dramatically.
i switched the red inductor from my cae wah to a fulltone inductor. Made the world of different to that mode. Since the wah has 2 inductors its quick to a/b them
Thanks Brian. This is a rabbit hole I have been jumping around in for the past year, but without your skills and resources. I got a Jext Telez White Pedal and it changed my life. Then I got a Spectrum SP-1 and am definitely in search of alternative players for that slot. (hint, hint). I actually have not gotten a wah yet, but after looking into it, I was thinking I want to mod it with a rotary switch and about five inductors built into it. Daunting and costly FTW! I didn't like the dodgy capacitors-only band pass for the compression drivers in my Super Beatle cabinet and I am running an Ashly active crossover until I figure out which sort of crossover or band pass I will use. It is very costly to purchase inductors as you mentioned, I guess I should get a winding machine.😸
Definitely not worth the cost for such a subtle difference in tone, the stock inductor sounded as good as any of the others(although slightly different) and of course, not as much feedback as the halo
I have a wah with a yellow and a couple with halo. I like the halo better but the yellow is good for gritty funk. Love the stack of dimes too.
There was a difference. It wasn't enough of a difference to warrant any hand wringing about which inductor was better.
Unfortunately. I watched/listened on my phone. But I heard nothing. I will try to give a listen with better audio again though.
How are your goats dealing with this cold
Halo sounded more organic but unless you were really listening you would never hear a difference between any of them
Stock sounded like it had more lows, then red fasel then yellow having the least amount of lows. Halo sounded best to me but not a huge difference. Sounded smoother for some reason. Cool video Brian. Thanks for the enlightenment
no difference except for the playing which made me think at first there was one, but at last I´d say none, fun idea though to check that out
The differences are very subtle but,I like the red Fasel and the Halo better than the others.I like the red the best,it seems to be more clear sounding.
I've got the custom audio wah with the red and yellow fasels, I'm using the yellow fasel setting to get a good top treble end I even turned the pot in the pedal so I'd get more top on the toe down. Would changing the potentiometer to a more higher one give it a more treble tone?
Why don’t you have someone else switching while you play?
Not so much
I heard the Yellow Fasel as thinner and centred higher. The others not much difference at all.
Great demonstration! I definitely heard a difference, even on my phone's speaker. The yellow was thinner and lower in volume overall--probably good for country. The red seemed to have more midrange, but wasn't louder overall. The halo was close to stock, but had an extra peak frequency (static, not moving) that I heard before the feedback confirmed its presence.
Does anyone make a wah with switchable inductors, or to where they can be combined in different ways to get different values? I'm curious about the possibilities.
You got that white white boy rhythm going B-Wamp! Nice!