How to Complete a Throop Tiger Wrap the FCR Way: Part 1 - The Basics
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- Опубліковано 2 січ 2021
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In the first video of this two part series, I demonstrate the Falconer Custom Rods way of executing a Scott Throop Tiger Wrap. This unique and custom technique was pioneered by California Rod Builder Scott Throop and first shared in RodMaker Magazine Volume 10 Issue 2.
In video 1, I demonstrate how to execute a 3-color tiger wrap and share some tips and tricks to get the final color, movement/intensity, and patterns you want.
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Guessing you are just getting back from the Rod Expo. I really wanted to go this year, but couldn't swing it. Finished the Tiger Wrap and pretty happy with it for a first one. Learned a lot! The biggest challenge was thread tension - pulling three threads through a single tension rod was very imprecise. Next was the ramps at each end created from the 4 coats of high-build. The thread wanted to slip down instead of stay packed in place.
For the tension issue, I am going to install two more tension rods to the back of the CRB 4 spool carriage. There is room to drill two more holes. That way each thread will have its own rod. For the slipping thread, I wrapped tape at the base of the up-hill end to prevent it from sliding backward and then sanded the down-hill end to provide grip on the epoxy for the thread. That all worked, but next time, I am going to try a coat of CP to see if that gives it traction at each end.
I really like the final product. It's on a scrap blank, but positioned on the butt where I could put on a two piece grip and use this as a true "ugly stick". Also, never used high build before, but really like it, and didn't have to do any sanding between coats. Literally poured and horizontally brushed low-build for the top coat. Only needed one coat with this technique. Was concerned about moving the single top thread. It was kind of loose.
Thanks for all your help!
I am posting pictures on RB blog - user name Don Rogers : www.rodbuilding.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=22384&cat=502
Probly the best demo of a Tiger wrap I've seen.
Thanks for watching...please like and subscribe!
Great instructional video...thanks for sharing.
Great explanation. Awesome video !!
Thanks for this video. I tried my very first tiger wrap following your instructions and it turned out stunning. Now I have to re-wrap all of my saltwater rods!
That's awesome! So glad it helped...please like and subscribe!
Just want to say thank you. I followed your instructions exactly including the 4 coats for the underwrap and I got pretty darn good results. Thanks again!
Thanks for watching - please like and subscribe! Thanks so much for sharing your feedback - I'm delighted the video was helpful. That's what they are for!
@@masteringrodbuilding Already done! have a great weekend!
You are the most informative and easiest to understand of all the rod building tutorials I have ever seen great job and and keep up the great work thank you . I’m just a beginner.
Thanks so much for watching...glad they are helpful. Please like and subscribe!
Best example I have seen to date, thanks for this video, will hopefully try my first one very soon!
Hi Bill, I would like to congratulate you on the high quality of the content shown on your channel.
Greetings from Sicily, Italia.
Salve Giuseppe! Grazie per la visione!
Knocked it out of the park again Bill, right Marilyn.
Randall I gave Marilyn a shout out...did she hear it?
@@masteringrodbuilding yes thats why I said, right Marilyn. Got a kick out of it, she did.
Great video thank you. You make it look so easy!!
Outstanding work mate very informative ❤ thanks for sharing
Thank you, Bill. Yet another fantastic video! It answered questions that I didn't even know I had!!! Take care and, thank you once again.
Thanks for watching Jon!
Worth watching again, great technique.
Thanks so much for watching...please like and subscribe!
Fantastic video and instructional. I look forward to giving this a try! Thanks for your great videos!
Such a great instructional video for a newbie such as myself. I just did a 2 thread under wrap on my very first rod build ever and yes I was about to do my top wrap but noticed it was still malleable and dent to the nail. Your video inspired me to not do the top wraps yet and do the other 3 coats of finish first and give it the 36 hrs dry time. Thank you for sharing your skills and very good insights
So glad it was helpful. You'll have to let us know how it turns out!
Thank you for this instructional video.
This video is really great! I can see how much time and effort you put in here. Thanks!
You are most welcome...thanks for watching!
As always Bill this video was great. I learn so much from your videos.
So glad...thanks for watching, Rick!
Beautiful
Thank you for the video. Have been practicing doing this and think I am using too much tension. Excited to try again following your tips.
Thanks for watching John...please like and subscribe!
Too much tension - and not waiting long enough for the finish on the under wrap to cure - make it almost impossible to get the result you want. They both keep you from getting the thread movement from burnishing you need.
Hopefully lighter tension sorts it out for you. Please reach out if you keep having trouble. Good luck!
"Tolles Video"... Danke!!! 👍
"Neujahrsgrüße aus Deutschland"
Gruss Gott! Danke furs zuschauen!
Very Nicely done. Great explanations.
Thanks Doc! Coming from YOU that means a LOT! Thank you! Hope you are well.
Loved this!
Thanks Jase - stay tuned for the advanced video and tips n tricks!
Outstanding video. I always learn something. Keep up the great work!
Thanks for watching, Trevor. I appreciate the feedback!
Great tutorial.
As always the level of details in your vids are amazing! Wish I had this vid when I first learned the wrap. Looking forward to the advanced techniques 👍
Thanks for watching! The advanced techniques are coming soon...
The next Video is here:
ua-cam.com/video/KpkkbK_QeNU/v-deo.html&lc=UgzOqNlzU-GWzldWLgt4AaABAg.9ILrO7QN2fb9IOjcHHJfiH
Thanks for sharing !
Another great video
Thanks Brother Squatch! Happy New Year...hope you are well.
Once again you have provided clear and concise directions and included the pitfalls to watch out for. I have watched a number of video's on Throop tiger wraps, this is the first one that left me feeling I can do this successfully. I am about to do a green themed rod how much shade separation must there be between the light and dark greens. I am hoping a light green and medium green would work well, I am thinking of blue for the third color. Color choices coming from a corporate logo.
So glad it was helpful...please like and subscribe!
Do you have a picture of the logo? PM me and I'll see if I can suggest specific thread colors for you. But if the logo is green, I might do NCP White, Black (regular or NCP is fine), and the closest NCP green I have as the under layer and the same over the top but sacrifice all but the green.
Really beautiful and I really helped by this video
That's great - thanks for sharing. And please like and subscribe!
Thank for the demo...great video!
Idea for future video....I love the tool spotlight you did on the spatula, can you do a video on your burnishing tool?
So...I can't sneak anything past you guys. That tool in the video is a brand new prototype tool another builder sent to me to test. I LOVE it...more to follow on that. Soon.
The thread burnishing tool video is now up...enjoy!
Nice work, thanks for the demonstration and tips. For my first tiger, I'll be using orange, fluorecent orange and bright red. Hopefully they will contrast. Thanks.
Well...that will be interesting. Let us know how you make out. For me based on my experience I'd be worried about not getting enough contrast with that combo. I'd either sub a white for the regular orange or go neon orange, red, and black. But that's just me. You'll still get a tiger but without more contrast they can get kinda meh.
The orange wrap at the beginning of the video, what colors were used there?
@@mikefoster912 that is a four thread tiger. The base wrap is Fuji Size A: NCP White (002), NCP Neon Green (503), NCP Neon Orange (501), and Regular Nylon black (001). The overwrap is the same four colors but sacrifice all but the Neon Orange.
Excellent instructional and motivational video. The repetition and attention to detail is very effective. I've been wanting to do this wrap for some time, and now is the time. I have a question: In Throop's Rod Maker article, he talks about the base thread and inlay threads in the section about the base wrap. I understand what you did on the video, but can you interpret Throop's instruction with these terms? Thanks!
Thanks so much for the feedback. Please like and subscribe! So I think where the confusion may be coming from is just a technique thing. I personally start my underwrap with all the threads I'm going to use (in the example video three threads in the underwrap) at the same time. Scott would start one thread and then inlay the the other one (or two) to the running wrap. Does that make sense? Either way you do it, it won't affect the tiger - just maybe what shows through your tie off wraps.
Let me know if I am not understanding or answering your question...thanks!
@@masteringrodbuilding Thanks - that does explain it, and I thought it might be a difference in technique thing. I like the way you demonstrated - it seems to simplify the process (once you master the 3 at a time wrapping) and still the the same results. I appreciate you taking the time. Now for some practice!
Great video, just like your others! Thanks for the super clear instructions and pledge for the cod mentality:-). Very inspiring for me as a beginning tiger wrapper! Just ordered some spools of aurora metallic. Great effect…
Do you ever use heat to help set the top thread better? I pushed the thread around on a few occasions while applying finish…
Thanks! Gus
Thanks for watching, Gus - please like and subscribe!
I previously used heat to 'set' the over wrap before pulling the sacrificial threads but with a little patience I just don't find it necessary. I normally wrap the over wrap, burnish immediately, and then wait at least two hours before pulling the sacrificials...waiting overnight is even better. Never had a problem when letting it sit like that for a while. Except for dying to pull those threads and see how it turned out!
But by all means - if your threads are moving you can try it. You also might just want to be patient and wait longer...I know the suspense is hard to take but it works.
If waiting at least two hours doesn't work I'd wonder if your threads may be too loose? Or your touch when finishing too heavy? The final remaining thread won't tolerate a bump but a light brush over at 200 RPM has never moved them for me? But it won't hurt anything to hit it with some gentle heat. Hope this helps!
What make of roller guides are you using to suspend your rod? It almost looks like your blank is floating. I have watched this video at least dozen times. I am getting better at doing. Thanks always great videos. Paul
Hello Paul - thanks for watching. Please like and subscribe! That blank is floating...effortlessly and with perfect tension. Which is what you get with EVERY Renzetti Rod Lathe. I can wrap up to 8 threads at one time with the same tension on that machine...and it has back up tension. Just awesome.
your videos are so instructional and I learn a whole. I want to make golden state warriors theme which is blue, yellow, and white do i use the same colors for the upper wrap as well?
Have my first coat of high-build on the base layer and wondering - Let's say after the third coat, the surface feels too bumpy or uneven, would it be okay to do a light sanding before applying the fourth coat of epoxy? I often sand between coats over butt wraps due to the uneven surface until I get it level (usually after the second or third layer), and then I get a really nice level and smooth final coat. I am excited to see how this turns out. I will post whatever I get. Thanks for your help.
I think you'd be fine sanding. Just remember that most of the movement / holographic effect comes from the depth of the finish between the bottom and top layers. That said...I might do 4 coats, sand, then do a final coat. My thinking is this might accommodate for the lost of depth due to sanding? No way to know for sure without testing...so let us know how you make out!
Has anyone tried this with only one layer of thread instead of coming back over? What effect did you get? Working on an idea, but wanted to see if it had already been done. Thx
Thanks for watching - please like and subscribe!
I'm honestly not sure exactly what you are suggesting when you say only one layer of thread...I don't know how you create a moire effect without two sets of lines (in this case threads)? But Doc Ski has done seemingly anything and everything with this technique so I'd recommend you check with him? He has done some stuff with labels/sticker/etc. under with only one layer over.
Beyond that I'd say go for it and let us know what you come up with!
Great Video. I do have to ask, what brush do use and how do you clean them. My top thread moves due to the plastic bristle brushes, even with a light hand.
Thanks for watching...please like and subscribe.
I use disposable brushes I get on Amazon...full details here:
ua-cam.com/video/TXnHedpLZYU/v-deo.html
That was awesome actually. Does your metallic thread have to be a dark color or can it be a lighter color?
Thanks Jim...please like and subscribe!
Your metallic thread can absolutely be a lighter color...I use metallic silver all the time. Just make sure that your wrap has a lot of contrast, though. So black/metallic silver/NOCP white or dark blue/silver metallic/NOCP light blue or something like that. You still need to have a very light color and a very dark color in the mix to get good contrast and effect.
Generally speaking, I do NOT like a light metallic as the final thread in the overwrap. So in the example where you used black, metallic silver, and NOCP white as your base I would sacrifice the white and the metallic silver on the overwrap typically. Do some experimenting but if your final top wrap is too light a color the wrap can often 'wash out'. Hope this helps...good luck!
What a fantastic video and instruction! I'm just getting started and ready to try some different techniques. Is there a reason you prefer using NCP thread? It seems there are more colors available in color preserved thread than non preserved.
Thanks so much for watching Erika. And thanks for the feedback - please like and subscribe!
So I like to keep things simple and limit the variables. If you want to use a light colored thread in your Tiger - which to me is absolutely critical to get the necessary contrast - you must either use NCP thread or apply Color Preserver to the entire wrap. I don’t use Color Preserver unless I absolutely have to (weaves, cross wraps, etc). So I personally select NOCP thread for my light/bright colors. Make sense?
Dark colors don’t change their appearance dramatically in the Tiger base wrap regardless of whether you use regular or NCP. But it can change the look if it is the final thread on your overwrap. So don’t be afraid to experiment a little. Good luck and have fun!
You do the best instructional videos - Thanks. How did you set up your wrapper so that it slides back and forth? Looks like a great way to go.
Thanks so much for the feedback Tony. Please like and subscribe!
So, I use a Renzetti Master Rod lathe (the older version). Since I don't wrap under power, I removed the powerhead/motor and chuck and put it on another Renzetti bed section and I use it for turning work (cork, EVA, Carbon Fiber, etc.).
The 'normal' Renzetti set up is that the thread carriage and rod mounts move along the lathe bed. I simply disassembled my thread carriage and bolted it to some T-track next to my lathe bed. I then mounted my lathe bed on a piece of oak that serves like a track and my lathe bed can slide left and right while my thread carriage - and my tools and my light and magnifier - stay right in one place. It's a great set up if you have the room on either side. Make sense?
@@masteringrodbuilding Yeah, kind of. I'm not that mechanically gifted, but I'll look into it. Maybe some pictures would help?
Better yet - a video!
Stupid question but what do you use so the rod does not lose all your slack when you release it when you still have tension with the threads?
Thanks for watching - please like and subscribe! No stupid questions...just want to make sure I am understanding your question and answering it. I'm honestly not clear what question you are asking.
If you are asking how I keep the rod from counter-rotating or rolling on it's own under thread tension when I let go...that is just the Renzetti lathe holding the rod and keeping it from rotating. It is extremely simple to adjust the rod supports to control tension so the rod stays put when you let go of it. And on a Renzetti you can make those adjustments one handed...which is nice.
But you are mentioning slack...and I'm not really using slack tension at any point so I'm not sure what you are asking me. The Renzetti unit also provides about 6" - 8" of back up tension. Meaning there is a wire spring unit that bends under normal thread tension and if you need to back up it straightens and keeps your threads under tension - at least for the first several inches. So I don't get slack when I back up slightly just because this unit is one of the only ones that has back up tension. Does that answer your question?
Just wondering if the 3 threads have to be in the same or reverse order comimn off the thread carriage? Frank
The short answer is no. However, I get the best results on the bottom wrap by placing the colors in order from light to medium to dark. If you have two light threads put them together...this increases contrast in my experience.
On the overwrap, it does not matter at all which sequence you wrap because you will be removing all but one. So go with what is easiest for you to see or wrap or whatever...it won't matter once you remove the two sacrificial threads. Hope this helps...thanks!
Great video, what do you then use to coat the thread? I’m trying to repair a few rod I got here, I’ll appreciate any help I can get.
Thanks for watching...please like and subscribe. Once the wraps are completed, I coat them with GEN4 epoxy finish. You can but it most places rod building supplies are sold.
If you want to learn more about the process, this video deals with how I apply finish to butt wraps, etc. hope this helps!
m.ua-cam.com/video/TXnHedpLZYU/v-deo.html
Hi Bill-
I have recently started to build and your vids are by far the best tutorials I have come across! Thanks so much. Is there any way you'd tell me the thread you used in the orange tiger wrap shown in the beginning of this vid. I'd very much like to duplicate it. Thanks again
Hey Franz - thanks for watching. Please like and subscribe!
CORRECTION: That particular orange tiger is a four thread tiger. The base wrap is Fuji Ultra Poly Size A Black (001), Fuji Ultra Poly NOCP Size A Neon Orange (501), Fuji Ultra Poly NOCP Size A Neon Green (503), AND Fuji Ultra Poly NOCP White (002). And I wrapped them in that order - black-orange-neon green - white. (I know it sounds weird but the order of threads makes a difference in the finished look.)
The over wrap is the same but sacrifice the black and neon green and white leaving only the orange. It is a super bright wrap but I love it. Hope this helps...good luck!
@@masteringrodbuilding liked and subscribed!! Thanks so much....this definitely requires some practice. All the best in the 2022! Looking forward to more vids!!
Can you do 2 color tiger wrap? Or it has to be 3
Absolutely you can do a 2 color Throop tiger. In fact, Scott Throop (the inventor) did only 2-color tigers for a long time.
Just make sure you use one very dark thread and one very light NCP thread. You need a lot of contrast on a 2 color Throop tiger base wrap.
Silvio, if you look at the thumbnail photo for this video the tiger on the far left is a 2-color Throop tiger. This particular one is black and white on the base wrap with Gudebrod Classic Twist Green and Black on the overwrap. Hope this helps:
ua-cam.com/video/KpkkbK_QeNU/v-deo.html
Given that you are using rolling rod stands on your renzetti and obviously you don’t have the butt in the chuck…how does your setup have enough rolling resistance to keep the back pressure of your thread tension rod from unwinding the thread on the blank and losing thread tension?
Thanks for watching...please like and subscribe! So...great question. You are correct - the power unit (motor and headstock) is not even mounted on my wrapping lathe and the rod butt is not in the chuck. (BTW...my power head and chuck are on another set of bases in my dirty garage workshop space and I use that set up for shaping grips, polishing guide feet, sanding uneven butt wrap finish, etc. I just don't use it for power wrapping.)
The Renzetti rod supports - which are the only ones I've ever seen that can be completely adjusted with one-hand - are so adjustable that you can easily put enough tension (rolling resistance) on the rod blank that it won't counter rotate. Make sense?
You didn't ask this question, but it's worth noting again - when it comes to tiger wraps, I use very little tension so the threads are easily burnished. That's true of both the base wrap and the over wrap. So not much tension is needed to keep it from backing up. Let me know if that doesn't make sense...thanks!
@@masteringrodbuilding once you apply tension to the blank with the rollers on your rod support…does it not have the tendency to “walk” down the taper of the blank and become loose/free rolling again?
I ask because I’m looking into upgrading my wrapping setup. Currently just have the cheap Mudhole/CRB hand wrapper with the upgraded 4 spool thread carriage. I don’t have the room for a whole power wrapping setup though. So I’ve been thinking about getting a piece of the Alps track extension and then buying a couple rod stands and a thread carriage. Specifically the thread carriage and rod stands from Al Engling if you happen to be familiar with him. My concern with that setup though is being able to keep enough rolling resistance on the blank to keep it from unwrapping, whether it be a tiger or just a guide wrap. Guide wraps would likely be where I could have a problem.
Great video by the way, I’ve probably watched it start to finish close to 20 times now. Did 8 test wrap tigers on a wood dowel and am now in process of putting one on a rod for the first time.
@@Brett12889 That's awesome - good on you for practicing. So few people put in the work...there is zero doubt it will show up in your results!
So I know the phenomenon you are talking about but I've only ever worked on a Renzetti and the only time I've ever had that 'walking' or creeping happen is on a very short stubby blank with very aggressive taper. Most average rod blanks will not walk out if you have the blank level in the roller supports (at least not on a Renzetti).
I do know of the stands Al makes and know them to be well designed and great quality...but I've never used them. Maybe ask him the same question? He's very responsive in my experience.
But don't over think it - you might have no issues at all. I'd try them and I bet they work great. If they don't you can find a solution (like have him make you a blocking plate you can put behind the butt of the rod as a stop, etc.). Make sense?
@@masteringrodbuilding yep I think so too, I’ll probably pull the sacrificial threads off the top layer tonight or sometime tomorrow. I one upped you on it and did 5 coats of epoxy on the bottom layer too haha.
I might be over thinking how much the taper would effect things. Though I had thought of an easy solution…just wrap a tape arbor in front of the stand, wheels won’t roll over it and it’s easily removable.
I did talk to him a bit, he says with the yellow bands he offers…you can get a good amount of rolling resistance with his rod stands.
Would a red,blue, silver work?
Thanks for watching - please like and subscribe! Of course red blue and silver will work. In fact, search Doc Ski here on UA-cam and at www.rodbuilding.org in the photo gallery and you'll find lots of examples. Doc is the king of Patriotic themed wraps. Hope this helps...tight wraps!
Hey Bill, trying to rescue a wrap that I’m not entirely sure where I went as I’ve done probably 2 dozen tiger wraps by now.
First thread wrap, burnished one way, second burnished the opposite directions that I burnished the first wrap but for some reason it doesn’t have the typical warped effect. Feel like I’ve lost pizzazz I was looking for and am slightly disappointed 😂
I’ve heated it and It’s already curing so it’s kinda too late to burnish and rescue. So the plan is to wait for the finish then do a third layer and see if that might work. Any suggestions?
I'd pull it off and go again...not sure what happened but it's likely salvageable. Most of the time if I don't get the figure or movement I"m looking for it'd due to not waiting long enough for the underwrap coats to cure before doing the over wrap. Could also be too much tension on the over wrap? Hard to say without photos...hope this helps!
@@masteringrodbuildingI ended up wiping a bit of epoxy off and burnishing a bit more. Let it cure, added a 3rd layer on top with a looser tension. It didn’t get the super wavy effect and it was more like a glitch effect… not precisely what I was looking to do but it turned out decent none the less because I used a color that brought it more together than I expected. It still looks pretty good to me and it’s a personal rod anyway.
But, I definitely think I had my thread screwed on wayyyyy too tight, not allowing me to move thread as much as I should’ve. Gonna go and practice on some broken rods!
Sir, i am building a 200g to 300g jigging rod, which accurate valiant would you recommend me?
Hello Silvio - thanks for watching. A few questions:
Is this a Slow Pitch rod? Or a speed jigging rod?
How deep will you be fishing?
@@masteringrodbuilding speed jigging, around 90 to 300ft
@@silvioguerra8233 So...I like to go light. For those depths I'd recommend a BV2-500N or BV2-600NN. Plenty of reel even for 65# braid and the narrow spool makes line management easy. Hope this helps...good luck!
What thread carriage and tensioner do you use?
Thanks for watching...please like and subscribe. I use an original Renzetti Master Rod lathe. As configured, the lathe bed is stationary and the carriage is designed to roll along it...but I modified mine so that the lathe bed slides back and forth about four feet each way and my thread carriage/tensioner is stationary. That way I can sit in one place with my light and magnifier and tools and don't have to move everything.
The Renzetti carriage/tensioner is the best by far...super simple to wrap 3, 4, 5...even more threads at a time under very consistent tension thread to thread. Everything can be operated one handed...super adjustable...will run all size spools...simply the best. I hear from a lot of builders that for them wrapping multiple threads is the hardest part. I've never had any trouble with the Renzetti. You can find the current version here- hope this helps:
www.rdflyfishing.com/collections/rod-lathe/products/craftsman-rod-lathe
@@masteringrodbuilding thank you sir. I have a cbr 4 spool carriage and it doesn’t even have a tensioner... it reallyyyy slows me down!
@@Mizzle83 I hear you. The wrong equipment can actually make it HARDER to get good results. It sounds kind of glib but I've learned the hard way over the years: buy once, cry once. You DEFINITELY get what you pay for. If the price tag is cheap, well then...you get it.
@@masteringrodbuilding that my favorite saying
👀