"Eyes" and What They Do
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- Опубліковано 3 чер 2024
- This lesson explains how to make life in Go. Once your stones are alive, your opponent can never hurt them. This is a big and important step towards understanding the game of Go.
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This lesson is part of a free Go introduction course on gomagic.org.
If you want to learn how to play Go, we recommend you to take the course there with interactive questions and practical quizzes.
Next lesson: • [OLD] Go Game Sample a...
Go Rules playlist: • Go Rules & Basics
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00:00:00 What if my stones get captured?
00:00:20 Experiments
00:02:31 Two eyes
00:03:40 A tricky question
The production quality on these videos is so good. I really hope you get the audience you deserve.
Thanks a lot!
I subscribed, so there’s one more audience member that you so clearly deserve!
@@GoMagicIn the first scene when atari happens, what if instead of black, white places in the center?
spoiler he doesnt
The visual effects help a lot to make it clear what you are talking about, great for beginners!
Thanks a lot!
As a kid i was always told the double eye was invincible but never had it explained to me - now it makes sense
Happy it all makes sense now!
Had to watch a few times to see how you managed to place the curled up group so well on the board from a handful of stones 😄
It takes some magical skills haha
Excellent teacher. I now have an interest in learning this game with my grandkids.
This is soooo good to hear! 😍
Same here!! Was gifted the game by a colleague and could not wrap my head around it well enough and these video’s are SO well done - will be sharing this w as many friends as possible. Thank u so much!!
0:13 Wow, The way the guy laid down those stones was mind-blowing. That's the sign of a pro.
(Or reversing the footage.)
Magic!
Great tutorial for beginners outside China, Korea and Japan to learn Go.
😇
GREAT teaching, and I LOVE your video editing, it’s FUN to watch even though I am a ~6k player and know about these things already 🙂
Great host, amazing production quality.
Thanks =)
such a great video. i watched the first one and had no plans to watch another but the instructor and quality of the video was great so I returned to learn more :)
Hurray!!!
I was looking for a nice channel to see go content in a decent quality, thank u for appearing!!!
We're here for you (and for everyone else) 😊
This is amazing; it is surprising difficult to find such a detailed breakdown of these specific and interesting scenarios!
Rules of Go can be quickly explained without all that detail, and a player will figure it out along the way...but we decided to go the extra mile and explain most of it =)
Excelent video! Thanks for taking the time to teach newbies like me. Subscribed!
Welcome aboard! New exciting adventures coming ahead =)
Great explanation with fun editing.
🥳
Ku explainer kwako kwanyatso batsira. Waita basa!!! 🔥
Thanks dude... this is a great intro to the game!
Really happy you like it!
Great video.
It is good. I like it, I like the clarity how you explain. Thanks
Glad it was helpful!
It's so nice these days that very accessible resources like this exist for things like Go. I really wanted to learn back in 2013 for my trip back to japan when I got a folding go board to take with me but couldn't get the more complex rules down without computer to tell me its illegal.
But now we're here for you 🤗
Thank you! Finally i got!
amazing content! thank you!
Glad you liked it!
Editing is really nice! 🔥production.
Thank you!
Killer editing❤
💪
that IS really good
Thank you!
A GROUP WOTH TWO EYES IS ALIVE
YESSSSS!
Understand that playing a stone inside an opponent's group with only one eye makes it an illegal move due to lack of liberties. 0:30
Recognize that a group of stones is only in atari (in immediate danger of being captured) if it has one liberty left. 1:22
Create a group with two eyes to make it an impenetrable fortress that cannot be captured. 2:59
Remember that making two eyes is a strategic concept to employ only when your stones are in danger and you need to save them. 3:34
Identify that stones need to be fully connected along the lines to form a single group that can't be captured if it has two eyes. 4:03
Realize that a group without a single eye and no escape route is already considered captured without the need for further moves. 4:36
In the last example, the white stones on the corners aren't necessary for capture, correct? See, there are time where connecting stones is inconsistent.
My friend! I’m a newbie at “Go” but your videos have been so helpful in learning the game. What question that is driving me crazy. I can’t seem to see the difference between the 2 eye example provided 3:26 and that last trick question one. The one at 3:26 doesn’t seem to connect either
Technically there are two groups, yes, but black can't capture either of them because would have to make a self-capture move. So they are connected.
I don't know if you still answer questions from this video but I'll ask anyways. At 2:15 while you're explaining an example of capturing and saying if black puts a stone in the middle he captures white. My question is, for example, in the same scenario hypothetically if it's white turn and he places the stone in the middle instead of black, does it make any difference? Or is white captured anyway? Thank you for the amazing video btw.
At that point White only has one liberty left - that eye in the middle. If White plays there, how many liberties would she have left? None! So that move for White is suicide and it's not allowed. I hope that makes sense =)
at the beginning of the video, (about 0:14), how did you place the stones so cleanly with what looked like just spilling them on the board? was there a cut, or did you practice that?
Many hours of relentless practice to make magic possible!
(pssst.. he reversed the clip)
Wish you had a book…. Or do you?
If not, any recommendations on books?
Wish could find good ebooks!
We haven't written any books...yet.
Our courses are hopefully more fun than books =)
First time seeing the rules of Go, I just have one question. At 03:25 you say that the positions work, however the two semi-squares are not connected by a line, and so by the rules stated in the very next section, are two separate groups with only one internal liberty. Is this a mistake, or is there another rule I am unaware of related to this, or am I not understanding the rule correctly? Thank you in advance, and thank you for introducing me to this!
My first time as well and I was stumped for a moment just like you. Only following the "line = group" statement, it wouldn't be a group with two eyes. But if you try to surround the whole structure and the place a stone in either one of the eyes, the other eye will still remain a liberty of that group. The top part of the lower semi-square has a liberty common with the upper semi-square. I don't know how to explain that better, hope it helps. (And hope I'm right, even...)
True! Also in the end example at 3:45 he says that they are 2 different groups in atari, but if white capture one of them, captures them both? I'll keep watching videos to see how this is explained/resolved.
it's a bit advanced...just keep going and it will become clear later =)
@@GoMagic Revisiting it I believe I may have figured it out, so if its the case please let me know. The two semi squares are safe because in order to capture either semi square, you would already need a piece within the others eye, which is impossible because they would be immediately captured. Essentially each semi-square has their liberty protected by their own eye and the other's eye, and so in order to capture one, you would first need to capture the other, which is essentially circular and impossible. So in order to capture semi-square A you would first need to capture semi-square B, but to capture semi-square B you would first need to capture semi-square A.
Something like that. You can experiment with this shape and you'll see that you can never put those stones in atari. So even though technically those are two separate groups, they function as one large connected group.
The "group" at 3:25 is actually 2 groups and not a single group with 2 eye, right? They are not connected along the lines. Or am I misunderstanding something?
No misunderstanding, you are absolutely right, well noticed!
this is one of those many oddities of Go - the groups are not formally connected, however they form those "two eyes" that can't be destroyed, so we think of them as one unit on the Go board.
In the last example, you don't need the corner white stones, correct? You could still capture without those two stones right in those extreme corners, this is what I don't understand about go. Sometimes stones are connected at angles but sometimes not. Why did the ice have to have right angles but when you capturing they don't? See what I mean?
Not sure what exactly you mean by saying "connected at angles". 😟
Stones are connected only along the horizontal and vertical lines.
4:42 do you remove those black "prisoner" stones before the end scoring even if white decides to not capture them?
I'll answer my own question. The answer is yes. This rule was explained in the next video of this series: "Sample Game of Go and Territory Scoring"
Yeah! That's correct! Great job on finding the answer. The "prisoner" stones are indeed removed before the end scoring, even if they are not captured during the game.
I have a question that came up near the end of this video. How does capturing "prisoners" work? If white really does want to capture the black prisoners, it would have to place stones into its own territory, thus reducing the size of the territory. Is there a special rule that lets you capture them at the end of the game without having to surround them?
Good question. I think it was answered in one of these "Rules of Go" videos. If both players agree on the status of the prisoners, then there's no need to capture them. You'll just add them to the captured stones at the end of the game.
Or just use the Chinese counting rule. (The rules are mostly equivalent)
3:46 I am very confused by the rules of eyes. At 3:20 you give examples of living groups with two eyes, that are actually two separate groups of stones. Even if encircled, white cannot play inside. And yet at 3:46, the black stones are seperate groups but they still have 2 eyes. Why can white capture at the end but not in earlier examples?
Answering this question without demostrating it on the board is tough. I believe it would be useful to try and figure it out on your own. Count the liberies of stones carefully and try to see why at 3:20 Black can never capture that group even if it's surrounded and why at 3:46 some stones can be captured.
On 4:39 i don’t understand the statement that the black stones don’t have eye. The empty spaces are the free eye for them, no???
Try counting Black's liberties carefully! Then you will see that some of the stones can be captured in one move.
Little confused by the difference between the big eye and the two little eyes. I thought black was able to play in the middle on the first example because the white group was in atari. But they're not in atari in the second example. So then I thought it was because they were surrounded by black, but they're also surrounded in the third example. What allows you to play a black in the middle for the second example but not the third?
You can only put a stone in a completely surrounded position IF it captures some stones at the same time. So if your move also fills the last liberty of your opponent's stones and captures them, it's all fine. But in the third example White has two separate eye spaces, so playing a move into any of them DOES NOT capture anything, so you can't play it.
@@GoMagic
Okay, I think I get it. So you can technically place a piece anywhere as long as it or the group it’s a part of has liberties, or if by placing it you remove an enemy piece or group’s last liberty, thus removing their pieces and giving new liberties to the piece you just placed. The main reason surrounding enemy pieces is useful is just that it’s removing their liberties.
Yes, it sounds about right.
In some games in go, people tend to say “I resign” what does it mean?
It means they admit they lost the game and give up.
Okay.
👍
Loved the video but you can't tell me the green goblin suit in your closest isn't calling you
We aren't that much into Spider Man I guess =))
At the 3:24 he says this group has two eyes, but I thought these are two seperate groups, because they are not connected by lines. So why can they not be captured?
Is it because while these are two groups, both have access to both eyes?
Haha you have a sharp eye. This is one of those tiny "more advanced" things we dropped into these beginner lessons. It's hard to explain without a board and stones, so I suggest you set this on the board yourself, surround it with stones and try to see why it can't be captured =)
Haha you have a sharp eye. This is one of those tiny "more advanced" things we dropped into these beginner lessons. It's hard to explain without a board and stones, so I suggest you set this on the board yourself, surround it with stones and try to see why it can't be captured =)
Haha you have a sharp eye. This is one of those tiny "more advanced" things we dropped into those beginner videos. It's hard to explain without a board and stones, so I suggest you set this up on the board, surround it with stones and then try to figure out why these stones can't be captured.
Why isn’t all the white area captured? I thought that once you circle an area you capture all the stones in that area.
If there are stones inside someone's area, they are not captured automatically. You need to make sure they don't have two eyes, because if they do...they will live.
By the way, the disappearance of the black piece when he tried to make an illegal move was no computer animation, it actually happens in real life! Nobody has managed to explain how it works.
Happens every time!
4:30, this part of the video seems to really be so important in explanation and i just cant find it anywhere... everywhere i look lists the rules of go that a piece only becomes your prisoner if it lacks liberty.. yet the black pieces in this example clearly do still have liberty and yet you capture them anyway???, is this because the black pieces are in atari? is this because the only move black can make within this would result in suicide?, and more than that wouldnt it effect the scoring to decide to spend a move capturing them with your own piece? if you just do it at the end of the game does it not cost you a piece to take away their liberty?, it seems so extremely unintuitive that the inevitability of death is treated as death regardless
It's a matter of getting used to it. When you see that a group of stones is not connected to other stones and has ONE liberty left, it CAN be captured.
so groups of stones in atari are still treated as prisoners at the end of the game?@@GoMagic
04:30 Am I to understand that white does not have to actually conquer the black stones? That black concedes? Bizarre because if it had, it would cost white two turns (and two less territory) that black could use to advance its game elsewhere on the board.
Exactly! It was too much for this first beginner lesson, but indeed, those stones are surrounded and don't have a single eye. Capturing them is not necessary - they're dead.
So how is that useable for points?
You mean eyes?
Eyes help save your groups, which means they help you not lose points.
"The answer is no"
The answer: yes
At 4:30 I see how one set of three can be captured but not all the stones with one white.
Well, that's what is meant there. Technically White needs two moves to capture/remove all the stones. But after the first capture, the second one is not needed because the stones will be left obviously defenseless and dead anyway. =)
Hehe there's a game of life reference
Sharp!
0:14 what kind of sorcery is this?
It's White Magic (we also have Black Magic for black stones) 😉
That was a difficult lesson …
Ouch, sorry
It gets more challenging later, buckle up =)
awesome: and i dont ever compliment videos.
And thanks again!
Using the term “alive” here is insufficient. We say something is alive even beforehand when any effort to kill it can be defeated with the correct response. The term you really want is “these stones are immortal”. What is alive can at least theoretically be killed, but these cannot possibly be killed.
Very true linguistically! But this is the term most Go players would use when talking about such stones.
@@GoMagic What newer students of the game do not immediately get is the **provisional** nature of the terms we use. We call something alive or dead provisionally, though it may be a few moves from being actually guaranteed life, or definitely killed. It has to be this way, I don't know if this is a proverb, but my teacher taught me "If you have two ways to do something, do neither", meaning for example, while I had the flexibility to connect this way or that way, save this way or that way, I should be focused on something else.
@@tesilab994d
say you're white and you have pieces on the board that form a single 'eye' and it's under threat of being taken, would you not put your own white piece in the 'eye' spot so none of your pieces can be claimed? i'm sorry if it's a dumb question! i literally know nothing about GO besides watching two of your lessons, was curious about it because it's played often in the korean drama 'the glory'.
any question is a good question =)
If you play inside and close the eye as White, it doesn't help sadly. One eye or zero eyes, the stones can still be captured.
This guy looks really hyped to describe little rocks.
People can get enthusiastic about literally anything haha
He was doing so well at clearly explaining the game right up until the end. The unnecessary confusion caused by the last minute is quite unfortunate.
So sorry!
But we felt that it would be too bland without some garlic and black pepper =)
Telling me to smash the like button made me smash the dislike button. Don't tell me what to like.
Ouch, that was just a figure of speech.
It's okay to press the like button very gently and lovingly!