Go Review - A video 4,000 years in the making
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- Опубліковано 28 тра 2024
- Huge thanks to Masters of Games for letting us borrow their Go products: www.mastersofgames.com/
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The hardest part about playing Go is finding people who play Go.
same
I thought you were exagerating, but apparently nobody currently is playing go in the Antarctic! Somebody send them a travel board!!
British:
www.britgo.org/clubs/list
Canada:
canadiango.org/club/list
Ireland:
www.irish-go.org/
Aotearoa New Zealand:
go.org.nz/
USA*:
www.usgo.org/where-play-go
Africa, Asia, NOT Antarctica, Europe, South and North America:
senseis.xmp.net/?GoPlaces
*Also includes a few Beijing AGA member clubs and one in Israel.
I haven’t played a game in person with someone who I didn’t just teach since I learned
KGS (Kiseido Go Server - www.gokgs.com)
The best thing about Go is more Hero quest.
Really bummed I missed the Kickstarter for this one...
This took 4000 years to get it.
@@aymodaslacker8852 so like star citizen?
@@themaverick7514 It actually had a full launch eventually, so no, not like Star Citizen
Robin Best buuurn! Chris Roberts going to sue you for defamations
@@themaverick7514 man will be so jelly at those people 4000 years in future have the ability to play that fully fleshed out game of star citizen. hope my grand grand grand ..... childern can use my kickstarter account.
"I would need Go friends" is such a perfect takeaway for Go. I love Go - I cannot get my wife into Go. I have resorted to teaching my 5 year old Go, so that someday I will have an opponent.
Exactly the same here.
An opponent who will beat you like a cheap tin drum
You're just going to end up with a kid who becomes a genius at Go.
Hey, gotta earn them schollies somehow...
Wait, they give D1 scholarships for Go, right?
Dont teach them...buy them a DVD set of Hikaru No Go.
I started playing Go 2 months ago, and this matched my experience beat for beat. I spent a week playing to figure it the rules, watched strategy videos and tutorials on UA-cam, started watching the anime, and fell in LOVE with the game.
And now I bore my wife trying to explain why my winning my last game felt like the greatest victory if all time.
Same. I have shouted "YESS!!! I did it!!!!" When I lost the first game by 2 point instead like 80.
She was so proud of me but a bit confused.
300 pound stones, yet Quinns lifts them like they're a bowl of pebbles. What a guy.
...Quinns’ body was folded 4,000 times and tempered under a waterfall...
£300 for stones?! He should be more careful with them!
@@crazyatblay
£300 ❌
300 lb ✅
Well, technically, it is a bowl full of pebbles
@@AaaaAaaa-rg6kg Anything is a pebble on a large enough scale.
I've taught more than a few folks how to play Go, and the proverb i tell beginners is "when you first learn to play, you're a gambler, playing random stones and hope they live. from there you become an engineer trying to build living shapes, then a soldier fighting everywhere and trying to kill stones, then a businessman trading smaller groups for profit, and eventually a fortune teller."
I’m somewhere between engineer and soldier... my kid ? Pure fucking soldier... I win about 1/4
They all make sense to me except for the fortune teller - can you explain? Is it just about predicting how the game will develop?
@@osuf3581 reading the board and seeing what your opennet is planing in about 50 moves away.
@@LockCard - How well and is it fundamentally different from predictions at lower levels? Arguably 50 moves could be predicted decently at times also for just the life-and-death level while I think even pros cannot predict reliably in early-mid game; e.g. supported by variability in sufficiently equivalent positions?
@@osuf3581 at low ranks your reading will be bad as moves that a set of stones should be alive will die due to poor reading. Poor reading also accounts to the fundamentals of go such as patters like the ladder and nets. As well as when to use or not use a joseki. For early game people try to read territory when they are new when that is normally reserved for mid to late game.
Opening moves for beginners dont really help other parts of the board.
Where high ranks start to think about stones placement more.
Like playing a cross game or play bellow the bottom left star point to indicate your intent for the game for taking the corner.
Not gonna lie, I came into this video thinking Go and Reversi were the same game. Now I feel... ashamed, yes, but most importantly enlightened
Reversi is the same as Othello right? If so I used to think the same thing
@@oliviapg It is the same, yes.
There is another game you can play with the board for children called Gomoku. You take turns putting stones down and 5 in a row wins.
There was a variation I played on paper as a kid where you did lines of 3, 6, and 9 and scored at the end.
Will you be doing a history of Go and Reversi in your next vid?
Reversi is such a sad silly game compared to Go.
Man, the Hikaru No Go manga was my jam in middle school.
Wait are you a go player?
i ws gonna give it a shout out but u did it already. i read it a bunch and watched the entire anime. As hooked as i was i never picked up the game.
One the best series ever to bad it end to so early.
Dude, I still got my Shonen Jump with it. It was always my favorite. Lol
AustinMcConnell hikaru nakamura
Go is a classic example of "game is good; I am not"
Perfect.
That phrase represents me. I won't be giving you a like because you sit at 361 likes, the number of Go stones in a set haha
its easy to learn play and enjoy....
its hard to get good at. (im an 18k player trying to make it to pro.)
@PurpleKlutz only if you plan on climbing ranks.
Joseaf Chapstik 😂That’s Go for you though- even the experts think they don’t really understand it, they’re just addicted to it.
Chess is a battle, Go is a **negotiation**.
I realised recently that a significant aspect of Go (at least at my intermediate level) involves playing moves which ask for a lot, in a way which forces your opponent to ask themselves "Is their request reasonable? Should I just let them get away with that? Or if it's unreasonable, am I good enough at fighting to punish them for being greedy?"
In the contest to carve up this wooden cake in such a way that you get an at least slightly larger slice than your opponent, the winning player is the one who makes the best judgements about the relative value of things:
- "you're welcome to have that corner, but I think this other corner has more potential so I'll take that instead."
- "you can take some points now, but in exchange I get to build strength for later" (Sounds like a Eurogame, right?)
- "I'll let you win a couple of points by pushing back my borders over there, because by choosing not to defend there, I get to grab bigger chunks of territory over here."
Sure it's also a game of fighting and sometimes puzzling out the answer to a tricky problem, but in a way that part is just the resolution mechanic for a game of tradeoffs and pushing your luck.
Duncan Stuart I love this comment!
Very well spoken. I how you describe it as a negotiation. Most competitive games, including chess, have this back and forth, but Go has a lot of nuance and large decision space for a very simple looking game.
Following that analogue, the "hard bargaining" as described in "getting to yes" would be flipping the board, I guess.
I mean, it sounds nice, but the premise is wrong. chess is a negotiation as well. you don't just take a piece because you can. you ask yourself the same questions. do I take this now and let him accomplish what he wants? do I offer a different exchange of pieces instead? do I instead let him take it so I can be stronger over here? and go is a battle of territory as well, regardless of how the battle is decided. it's a different form of strategy, not goals.
chris wright good points. For sure tradeoffs happen in chess. Perhaps the difference is that I always felt like they were more like means to an end, whereas in Go tradeoffs on territory directly contribute to the victory condition.
A game of Go involves taking a resource (spaces of territory on the board) and deciding how it should be distributed between the two players: that feels a lot more directly like a negotiation for me.
Would it be fair to say that in Chess the main progression of the game is in capturing or threatening to capture? While in Go the main progression is in surrounding territory or threatening to surround territory (carving up the cake), and threatening to capture is a secondary mechanic.
First video introduction to Go I've seen on youtube that was genuinely exciting and didn't feel like a university lecture. Go content creators should take notes from this guy to help make their videos more engaging to beginners.
I watched this video Tuesday night, spent Wednesday learning the game and ordering a cheap go board,
Thursday I taught my daughter and her half sister how to play along with my girlfriend,
then went to my best friend's house and taught him and one of his brothers,
and ordered some used clam shell and slate pieces online last night.
This morning my daughters half sister was playing against her father in the living room.
Thank you for this video! I'm excited to play Go and get my friends and family to learn.
Next Sunday during the Superbowl, I plan on teaching my sister Jeni and my nephew Chase!
Oh my gosh! I saw your shout-out to my channel at 13:48 and I couldn't believe it! This was an exceptional video. Thank you for enjoying my Go content, and if you would ever like to collaborate or get a one-on-one lesson, don't hesitate to reach out! :D
Me watching this video like "I know her!!!" Haha
I love you so much! 😍
please please please please
Hell yeah! I’d love to see this.
Nice! (Super jealous) but happy for you!!
You’ve offered so much over the years via In Sente. Glad you could get some mainstream recognition. Wait- did I just call SU&SD mainstream?
Note about how perfect the design of the components is: These boards are not square. It is slightly oblong, the long side run from player to player, so when looked at from the players‘ perspective it appears square.
This is something I never would have thought of. It's incredible what thousands of years of refinement can do to a design!
And the black stones are slightly wider in diameter to account for the optical illusion of white stones looking slightly bigger if they were actually the same size!
Tbh I think that varies from board to board.
I've played with perfectly square boards but if you've found a board that does that, it's a pretty cool bit of design.
The really good ones are often made out of several different kinds of wood, with different denseties, put together to account for the unique gravitational forces in your local area, thus ensuring that the board always remains perfectly stable.
The MOST esoteric thing about Go sets is, the stones are often slightly larger than can fit if all 361 intersections are filled. So the arrangement of stones on the board looks somewhat askew, which fits a certain aesthetic. If the board were a "closest packing" beehive arrangement, the board would have to be big enough to accommodate the stones. Let's NERD UP people!
23 years ago I became fascinated with Go and as I was 19 and in college and broke I jotted down the rules from a book in the local mall. Security threw me out. I used a pizza box and a sharpie to make my board and gathered white and black road debris for my stones. I was in heaven! But alas I never found another player who saw the mystic transcendental bliss I experienced in such simple material dancing across the grid lines
You remind me of my uncle who created a homemade Monopoly board for his kids. He was perfectly able to afford to buy an actual one, but he grew up during the Great Depression. He never bought anything when he could make it instead.
This is what go servers are for.
((-x yall are cool.
Romans 10:9
They threw you out for looking at a book in the book store, and writing things down‽
@@BlissBatch yeah surprised me too! They searched my school bag for stolen items, found nothing, but threw me out anyways. I was banned from the mall for a month! 1998, I didn’t have access to the internet and the local library didn’t have anything on the subject; this was the only way for me to learn the game. I wasn’t much of a mall fly anyways.
OK, let me compare rocket science to farting.
I would watch that video. KSP probably has a mod for it.
Same thing if you fart hard enough with a gas canister and a lighter
Any guesses as to the specific impulse?
oh it’s a manley type of day
Scott Manley knows of Go? I better check my staging.
I took a Go class once. A master from Japan was visiting DC toward the end of the semester and our teacher, who was apart of the regional group, got him to play our class of eight(and our teacher)...at the same time.
He systematically obliterated us. He sat in a revolving chair and would spin to face each of us. He took a few seconds to place his piece and move onto the next game. One by one we each began to realize victory was impossible and only our teacher was left to provide competition. I’ve never forgotten that day.
That sounds epic!
that sounds like a really fun competition!
Pro Players are insane. if you go to any of the Go Opens has they will sometimes have something called Simultaneous games where a pro will smack down like 5 players at once. Not only can they beat all 5 players but can wipe parts of the board and replay them to show you what you did wrong.
So basically a normal simul
I took some classes from a Chinese Go player in Maryland, who'd started his professional education in the game while still a child. We'd have a lecture, then lunch, then we'd all pair off for games, and he'd circulate among us and observe out games. At the end, we'd gather to discuss them and each pair were expected to be able to play the game back from memory. Very few of us could, of course, but our teacher- who'd been watching everyone, not just a single game- would then step in and replay what we couldn't recall, as well as instruct us in the mistakes made or better responses that were available. It's very humbling to be in the presence of someone who plays on that level.
My boyfriend, a chess nerd with a particular love of chess variants, walked in on me watching this video and exclaimed "Go?! They're seriously reviewing Go after using Chess and Variant Chess as a joke? I have never felt more betrayed." Then walked away to process his feelings.
Anyway, I enjoyed the review.
Better put the kettle on, a few drops always cheers you up
It will be difficult explaining to him that he is wrong. You have my sympathy.
My wife destroys me in Chess. In the 8 years we've known each other she has never beaten me at Go. It's a much different headspace.
What kind of Chess variants??!!
@@3333218 He's particularly fond of the ones that add or swap out pieces. Omega chess was his first love, along with Capablanca chess. He also loves Beyond chess. He enjoys Bughouse chess and has fond memories of putting together MEGA Bughouse chess with teams of ten at chess camp. But the ones with variant pieces are his favorites and he really likes smashing variants together so they have more variant pieces.
I do like how while he's a beginner he seems to have a good sense for what makes go deep and fun
One of my favorite sayings/aphorisms/strategies(?) in Go is “when in doubt: Tanuki.” Roughly “when in doubt: ignore your opponent.” The idea is, if you’re in a stalemate or disadvantageous position somewhere on the board, make a move completely elsewhere. Ideally with a long term plan in mind, but sometimes it can even be somewhere completely random. This throws off your opponent, confuses them, and forces them to either now start responding to your new move (rather than you responding to theirs), or else keep going in the section in which you were just playing and thereby miss a crucial new development you have just set up.
What I love so much about this is how elegantly it exemplifies the idea of initiative. Not like the RPG stat, but the idea of dictating the pace of the game. It’s near impossible to put into words or specifics why this can be an effective strategy, but after a few rounds of Go you can begin to understand how this crucial aspect of the game can determine who sets the pace of the game and who is struggling to catch up and respond without being able to execute their own independent strategy.
When in doubt: raccoon dog
As someone who has been playing go for over a decade, I can say you managed to perfectly capture the feel and the joys of the game with a fraction of the experience. You are an incredible communicator with a great ability to distill things to their essential parts.
I spent 3 years learning Chess in clubs, summer camps, etc. as a child, and something never clicked when I played it. I had fun with Chess and even got quite good, but it never felt like "the game".
After an hour of learning Go, I knew I had found it. This game is the most elegant game ever made.
then check out Shogi
Go makes Chess (and Shogi) look like snakes and ladders. No comparison.
@@Linka123 Shogi has a bigger decision space, but ultimately falls into the same traps as Chess.
Can confirm. Was club chess player in southern CA. After learning Go I have not played a serious game of chess since. Nothing against chess, Go is just a better fit for me.
Have you tried mumbletypeg? It's a game that is intricate in it's own simplicity.
Chess is considered a battle, Go is the whole war.
The thing that draw me to this game was a manga called "Hikaru no go", also watched the anime of it.
When i found a group of players, they were amazed that i sought them out since hardly anyone know the game even exists.
Weirdly enough, its so popular in Japan, China, and Korea to the point Go player literally received scholarship just to play Go.
I was slightly disappointed this wasn't mentioned. Everything he described basically says war. You build bases, look for holes in your opponents strategy and the landscape ends up divided between two nations. There is no game that gets close with very little rules and pieces.
Hikaru no go is just absolute genius, never has there been a better commercial to a game in the history of ever, saki doesn't come remotely close with mahjong.
@@blueplayer6197 what really helps sell the manga/anime is that the games being played were made/reviewed by a real professional DAN level player. So the tention is genuine, unlike with other games which have a "heart of the cards" nonsense certain games have.
Maybe because the original name is Wei qi? When you were looking did you try that name first?
SUSD: "And the answer... is a resounding..."
Me: "...maybe."
SUSD: "...Maybe."
Thank you quarantine algorithm for recommending me another UA-camr that I didn't know I wanted to watch.
Unfortunatly, you mischaracterized some major rules.
1. When you roll doubles, you go again.
2. After placing your second-to last stone, you have to shout "UNO!".
3. And most important: "Pass GO, collect 200$".
You got me with that last one...
Love this
Also loser strips.
@@Bhazor yes, Yes, YES!!!
@@Bhazor The fact that they missed this often overlooked rule is the ONLY damn reason that stupid AI could win the game.
Oh man. Now Go will be out of stock every where
That's good! It means people are playing go!
Everything must go!
You could draw the grid, then play mints vs. chocolate buttons. Prisoners get eaten.
More people having a go!
@@xeviphract5894 you need to count the prisoners at the end!
Go is the only game I've ever played where after understanding the rules, I still had no idea how to decide what to do.
It gives players a mind blowing freedom, and it really does feel like a vast landscape.
It's rule set is one of the simplest of any game, but it's also the deepest. The fact that both those are true at the same time is terrifying and exhilarating.
Go almost doesn't feel like an invented thing. It feels almost primordial in the way of fundamental logic. I wouldn't be surprised if we one day contacted an alien civilization and found that they also played Go.
If anyone cares enough, I really recommend the book "The Direction of Play" by Takeo Kajiwara (if you can find it). Probably my favorite Go book ever since it effectively illustrates whole-board strategy in the game, and the effect that even a single stone can have on even a near empty board.
@@trashl0rd will check this out. As a beginner I enjoyed the book, “the way of the moving horse”, part of a series.
@@bubba101010 It's OOP and hard to get, but there's a PDF copy floating around that's easy to find.
@@trashl0rd That is a notably difficult book for beginners though,
slightly easier (but even then not ideal) is "Attack and Defense" by Akira Ishida and James Davies
The ending note of this video is so spot on. I have been starting to play Go at the young age of 11 through the Anime you mentioned and I never had a single real life friend playing with me in my entire life. The quest to become a master in this game which I eventually achieved also required me to isolate myself in a very real way. Having a passion that most people never heard of and only a few chess nerds can remotely appreciate because they came across it at some point necessarily changes you as a person.
As a long time, fairly strong go player who now works in a board game cafe, super excited for this review. Hoping it draws people in to this amazing game.
As a medium time, fairly ok go player, I agree.
As a zero time, never touched a board player, I now want to try it
Kevin Riggle you can get Little Go on the iOS.
As a fair-time garbage player I hope it spreads more. It really is a beautifully complex game
lmao@@eicha41624
1:08 or so
Me as an American: *if they’re 300 pounds, how is he lifting them so easily?*
Me two seconds later: *ohhhhhhhh*
Commander Vander same
that table doesn't look THAT heavy
it costs 300 pounds of sterling silver...
That's quite a lot to carry...
oooohhh right the accent should've given it away xD
Me as an American reading this comment halfway through the video: OOHHHHHH.
Yes, the board at 3:00 is bizarrely peaceful. Both players are in serious danger of losing most or all of their territory! I love this game so much
Mage Knight, Cosmic Encounter, X-Wing Miniatures...
I love modern board games. But Go has always been my number 1 game. I've never seen a board game come close to it's incredible rules to depth ratio. It teaches in minutes and has complexity that takes lifetimes to uncover. It's super satisfying to play too.
"Chess is the best game ever devised by mankind, but Go was given to us by the gods."
chess < hive or onitama tbh
@@Cuix true. Hive is at the same level
@@Cuix Chess + Hive = Shogi
Both are over rated games that people like because it makes them feel classy.
Chess is a memory game for humans. Go is a memory game for supercomputers (i.e. gods).
Bringing out Go during "games better than Chess" month is really throwing down the gauntlet, isn't it?
Edit: Y'all, this was meant as a tongue-in-cheek comment. Please stop with any serious replies.
Not really. Serious players respect both games.
I imagine go is harder to play with a gauntlet.
Go is good but boring...no comparison to chess...
@@republikadugave420 chess is fine but boring. static openings and 50% of high level games are draws. no comparison to the depth of go. ;)
@@claytonsmith3749 thx 🙏
This is so unbelievably apt. I love Go. Absolutely adore it. Have one friend I used to play it with religiously at Uni. For his 21st I did a whip around and bought him traditional stones for like 300 quid... Now he lives 200 miles away. My set hasn't been used in years. My wife doesn't enjoy it. Best game I never play
Favorite part is how when he's arguing with the ghost at 16:30, the mirror behind shows he's just arguing with himself. Accidentally perfect special effects.
wonder if any of those other online go-players are looking back at their one-sided game against a really well-spoken 9-year old.
Worse is when you go to a tournament and you beat said 9-year-old and their father berates them and makes them cry..
Eric Flood even worse is when the 9yo beats you and then berate you and makes you cry :(
@@true7563 I went to US Go Congress in Madison in 2019, and got to know an older player who said he would "quake in my boots" when he was paired against an elementary-aged player, cuz they're almost always underrated (not enough tourneys)
Yeah I gotten beaten by a 8 year old at a tournament and He didn't even care that he was there. That hurt a bit
@@true7563 Even worse still when the 9yo beats you and then berates your dad and makes him cry :'(
I cannot begin to express how happy this video made me feel. I have been a SU＆SD fan and Go fan for years and I was absolutely elated when I saw it pop in my notifications. Go, to me, is the most exciting, thought provoking, elegant board game I have ever played and ever expect to play. As Quinns mentioned though, that wall one feels is very real. With all the digital resources nothing compares to getting your hands on a real board with real stones. I cannot count how many times I desperately tried to convince my friends to take up learning it. The more time you invest the deeper and more profound and ultimately enjoyable it becomes. But it does take time and...reps, the value of which doing so may not be immediately apparent. This is in fact one of the main reasons why I decided to delve more into casual/commercial board games and...what eventually brought me to discover SU&SD's content. Your site became my most reliable (and entertaining) resource for discovering which board games to purchase which ultimately has brought joy to me and many of my friends. So really, this video has brought everything full circle for me. It is surreal. Honestly at the beginning of the video I was so nervous for the verdict. But, let me tell you Quinns, you absolutely nailed it.
Totally agree. Playing and becoming good at Go is both a wonderful and terrible thing. Once you hit the Dans in the UK you really have to go out of your way to find face to face opponents. That was when I turned to modern boardgames. Its been fun watching Quinns slowly encounter many of the same favourite games as me but almost in reverse.
I have been playing Go on and off more than 10 years and I am genuinely impressed how you can make Go sound so exciting. Next time when I want to explain Go to my friends I will just send them this video.
I think you nailed it with the bit on how after hours and hours of play and research you felt like you were ready to call yourself a beginner. I looked into Go a while back after seeing a documentary on it and found that after a couple of weeks I could win against people who hadn't played before, and got crushed by anyone who remotely knew what they were doing. In one case, my opponent felt bad, in the other, I did. It kept coming back to at least one player not feeling like they knew what they were doing along with a dominating sense of feeling overwhelmed, and in the end, in the games I played, people just weren't having fun. I think the learning curve is too steep to be accessible to the casual player.
I’ll be your Go friend!
The way to go Nick. I doubt that 5% of the people in the comments plus the video presenter as well, know the true value of this message :)
OMG. I will take you up on that offer if SU&SD doesn't :)
@@Giannis_Krimitzas Honestly I really hope Quinns takes him up on his offer. If anyone is interested in learning Go check out Nick Sibickys channel he is a fantastic teacher and has many wonderful videos. Very talented man all around.
This looked like one of those scam comments before I saw who it was lmao
Speaking of Go friends, thank you for posting your lectures. I've been watching them during quarantine, and have been encouraged to reconnect with my former teacher (who moved out of state, to my chagrin) and start playing again on DGS. I appreciate the insights you bring to the game, as well as how you communicate them. Between your lectures, some review of Yilun Yang's lectures, and lots of tsumego problems, I'm actually managing to give my teacher a hard fight!
6:03 *Ackchually...* (text starts crawling) Oh, ok.
Go is a very special game to me. I used to play with the black and white pieces at my grandparents home without knowing what they were when I was a child. One day my grandfather taught me the game on a big wooden table just like the one in the video. He completely destroyed me but I still had fun and was so amazed with this game. I don't know what it was, but it felt so important and like an almost perfect game. So everytime I'm visiting him we are playing Go now and he kept on beating me just until last year. I don't know if it's because I'm better now or if he's just older. I still feel like a complete beginner in this game to this day. I think in Go it's more like you "feel" the game rather than "think" about it, so unlike chess it doesn't give me AP at all.
AP ?
😳 and woa wait a minutes ...
`feel the game` rather than think ?.... maybe i will give it a Go afterall maybe.
@@jasongclj6945 I believe that stands for "analysis paralysis"!
@@jasongclj6945 Analysis Paralysis
Sir. You have, IMHO, captured the Go/Weiqi experience perfectly. Considering the subject matter, your presentation is an amazing achievement. Well done. Well done.
how the word “go” comes in? japanese word? or
go is from China, not japan
The way Quinns said 'take care' at the end of the review was so genuine and unexpected! And that is why I love watching this show. He really loves his hobby and cares about the people who share this passion.
I've had a fascination with Go since college, but had no idea where or how to start playing. Thanks for the video, Quinns, you've given me a bit more confidence to start.
Look up OGS, "Online Go Server". It's the biggest online Go platform I know.
You can also play on BoardGameArena.com.
As for where to start... playing 9x9 is a good start! It is, in many ways, a different game from the full (19x19) Go experience, but it'll introduce you to the fundamentals. If you want someone to play a few rounds with you, I'd love to help you out! I'm a newbie myself though.
KGS, "Kiseido Go Server" is good as well.
@@AlephN Thank you! I already had an account on OGS (@maserspark), so I'm using that to play with bots. I'd love to play with someone else though!
@@zaqmendenhall7628 Thank you!
@@maserspark It is very obscure in the OGS site, but there is actually a place with Go resources for new players: online-go.com/docs/other-go-resources
Free books, youtube channels filled with amazing tutorials, online tutorials, databases, everything *free* :D
They really should put that link in a place were new players can locate it in an easier way though :P
After getting into go, I can't play any other board games without feeling like they are just poorly designed children's toys, and that I'd rather be playing go.
I accidentally ate half my go set while placing mentos on the board.
This new Tash-Kalar expansion looks a little dry.
I liked the through the desert module better.
It's because it's not an expansion but a prequel.
I love these obscure early Knizias
Yea I'm really surprised Quinns didn't mention the 90s expansion "Through the Desert" which supports more players
Ah, the early days before he started pasting on a theme.
This comment is criminally underrated 🤣
Funnily enough, the first time I saw Tash-Kalar I immediately thought it's like Go with added cards and a theme.
This review sums up my exact experience playing Go. Go is a hobby into itself. I feel like it's more like a sport, than a board game. I stopped playing it because no one I know plays it. I went to a club, but I didn't fit in. However no other game has been as rewarding as this game was. It just asked to much of me.
I would play this over chess any day of the week, if someone ever asks me to play.......
Glad you took the time to learn and cover Go, and better yet enjoyed it. Go is the game I wish I could convince more friends to learn and play at the pub over a few pints. I got bored of trying to be good at chess, but learning Go has never felt tiring.
I'm starting to think this channel is just a means of freely acquiring ludicrously nice and expensive board game furniture for your apartment.
It's clearly option 4. "How much time do you have for me to tell you how wrong you are?"
What a gifted communicator you are Q! Thank you for this review. It is easiest to learn if you have an equally committed beginner to play with. Over time, skilled players perform with the intuition, improvisation, and dexterity of a great jazz musician. I hope you keep your set!
I spent about a year learning chess with a computer and I'm now good enough that finding challenging human players would require a concentrated effort except for online of course.
I spent 5 months playing Go against a computer of variable difficulty and it was so soul crushing to be unable to progress I just couldn't get into it
EGF 2 dan here. Besides a couple of small mistakes in explaining parts of the game, this was a really great and astute review of Go. You're absolutely right that the small scene of Go in the West, and the inital struggle with Go conceptually is a high obstacle for your average person to have to overcome. I'm always sympathetic to the fact that it is a game you have to put a lot of time into to begin to appreciate. But it was really lovely to see you talk about how when you did begin to appreciate the game; it totally drew you in. That's always nice to hear. It's also very familiar to me (as it is a lot of Go players in the West I imagine) the struggle with explaining the beauty of the game to people unfamiliar with it. I hope you'll look into joining your local club through the BGA (British Go Association); and join us in exploring the wonderful mountain of Go.
BGA is great and all and I understand it still has it's fans, but personally I really just want more than 256 colors.
Every Day Until You Like It Excellent comment. I'm 7k AGA and might I just say that it is my dream goal to become a dan player someday. Well done sir.
@@ValkyrieTiara you only need like 3 colors to play Go though
I had to constantly remind myself that this was a review rather than a tutorial. The constant one-eyed territories in his examples, none of which he later acknowledged, was very very frustrating...but avoiding or explaining this was entirely unnecessary in a review.
@@TheAguydude Having the humility to remember that you too were once at that level, rather than getting angry at people for making mistakes is a much better way to look at things.
I adore that the unflattering "That's so ___" freezeframes are still happening.
I love the enthusiasm for Go, and love watching new people picking it up (that wall shrinks a little every time someone new reaches for the stones). Also, Janice Kim's Introduction to Go books are fantastic for beginners!
I love go. I played my first game 50 years ago. I play online and participate in face to face tournaments when I can. Saturday the American Go Association is holding a virtual Go Congress this year due to the Covid 19 Pandemic. Otherwise I would have been gathering with my people for the annual event. I love go, just incase you missed it the first time.
It's good, but I prefer Crockinole.
Pizza is good, but I prefer beer....
It would be nice if the guys at SU&SD reviewed Crockinole! It’s a lovely game.
@@deanc9195 ua-cam.com/video/XMKzeg78peg/v-deo.html
Yes, probably because it's actually fun
@@free-dissociation ahhh maybe 😀 I just took it at face value
OMG! I never thought this would happen. I literally today rewatched the hive review and thought how amazing a go review would be...but that could never happen, right?
I've recently started playing go again as well...I love you shut up and sit down and go...and this video!
So happy! It has always bugged me that you lot had never reviewed the oldest continuously played board game on the planet. Thank you! As to the "opening the third eye" feeling, this game makes most games feel like snakes and ladders. We often hear the idea the someone "smart" is playing "multi-dimensional Chess". Rubbish! Multi-dimensional Chess doesn't exist. But Go does, and that's what they're playing.
6D here - this was quite the entertaining review haha thanks for making it so I can send it to my non player friends who just know I play this but have no idea what the game is.
For those looking for games to play, check out what the AGA has to offer. There are also Facebook communities, one of which my friend that I met when I was a competitive youth player, still runs. If all else fails, there are several online Go servers. And if you have kids, I'd encourage you to teach them. I'm not going to lie, I hated playing against kids in high level tournaments - they reminded me of the Chinese insei I faced when I trained in China....
3D in the states here. Absolutely cannot get into playing online for some reason so it’s been a struggle lol. At least in universities you can find other people from China who plays
All Go reminds me of is the incredibly less daunting Through the Desert. Sure, it doesn't have 4000 years of heritage and a 19 by 19 board, but it does have tiny little camels. Does Go have that? Didn't think so.
Through the desert also supports four players and has plastic palm trees. Marvelous. I would still prefer go but rarely play two player games face to face
Stones can be replaced by a sufficiency of tiny little two-toned camels, if you wish.
Camels are in the expansion Go: Camels
@@stumbling and Toe to Toe, because 2 players.
Is there an expansion coming?
I saw a tournament on one of the online go servers a couple of months ago where the boards were 25*25, so ...yes?
They have
Go : Further down the path
Go: And don’t come back
And my favorite the parallel dimensions themed expansion, Go: Somewhere... Else
Play it on triangles. That's odd as having more liberties make things stronger, but the it's so much harder to get the two eyes needed
There was a tournament in, I think, Kentucky where they had a special board made in the shape of the state of Kentucky. It was more of a special interest than an expansion but it was quite fun to see people try to use their strategy on an oddly configured board.
In a way alphago was an expansion as it completely changed the meta. Moves that were never played are now standard and old standard moves are now unplayable.
I hope to see Shogi and Mahjong as well sometime in the future.
Thanks for the always fun commentaries, SUSD!
Yaaaaas!!!! Awesome that you took the time to make an awesome video of this game. I think this is my favorite SUSD review ever and Quinns’ excitement over this game is apparent through the whole thing. Hikaru no Go is a great anime and immediately came to mind, so I’m excited to see that you went down the same rabbit hole I did when I started playing.
I feel it should be noted that most major areas of the world have Go clubs where one can play in person and make new Go friends.
Otherwise, I'm so happy to hear that this game took over your life, even if briefly. I share your sentiment in not enjoying Chess very much, whereas I would *dream* about Go frequently when I was originally learning it. You also managed to show the basics of why the game is interesting in a pretty short period of time.
Also, I've played for well over a decade and I wish I had only known that I needed to open my mind more in order to become a master. ;)
My Go dreams used to be so mixed up. A statement in conversation was a move in go. There was no distinction in my mind at all.
@@mybigbeak I remember reading something about go in ancient Nepal where it was called the tongue-lashing game. When a player made a move they insulted their opponent. As the game progressed the insults got more witty or devastating or incisive. The board was 17 * 17 and had several pieces already laid out at the beginning but it was still basically go.
@@mybigbeak I had the same experience when I was intensely studying the game many years ago. Once I dreamed in Go move sequences...woke up and all my thoughts were scrambled Go-patterns. It was very unnerving until I snapped out of it. I took a break from the game for a while after that lol.
I was always on the fence about this one. Might have to give it a go
Bah dum tis
😏
I don't know how this video got recommended to me, but I am so happy to come across your review. I live in Asia and I grew up attending Go classes, even doing pretty well at competitions. But that was some 20 years ago and I no longer play. Your review could easily have been a half-baked attempt to try and learn, and I would have forgiven you given how deep this game runs. Yet it was so spot on about the intricacies of the game it made me miss it so much. It captures of the excitement of the game so well. I think I may have to get myself a new set of Go after this.
Honestly that was a great and interesting, and honestly very true ending. I’ve had a small obsession with go for the longest time, but the hardest part is getting anyone else to feel the same way. Even when we’re at the same skill level, that level is just “wtf is even going on” which is interesting for me because I want to find out, but it takes so long that most people don’t share that same interest. I had hope for the simplicity of the rules, but the complexity of the strategy means that not knowing what you’re doing frustrates a lot of people, even me at times.
I love this review. Thank you very much for making it. I was hoping this would be in chess month.
Hearing Quins try to put into words how the game made him feel was extremely relatable. I was hooked and madly in love with the game, just by reading about it. I realised 15 years ago that I was not going to play anyone of my friends anytime soon. I left Go years back as a not even beginner, but it never left me. I always keep the board and stones, waiting for when the time is right to really get into it.
One day, it’ll call your heart and mind again. It’s happened to me multiple times of leaving it for years.
YES! Big fan of Go, it's a fantastic game
When I saw the title I was like: Let’s goooo!
I have owned various Go boards and pieces for the past 52 years and enjoyed Quinn’s take on it when this SU&SD video first came out. I initially learnt Go in the abstract from books (pre-Internet) before buying my first set from the oriental basement store in Liberty’s in London. I now have a beautiful goban which is about 30cm deep, not including the feet, which I bought about 25 years ago on one of my trips to Japan (imagine Quinn’s borrowed board with feet stacked on two others). Go boards, pieces and accessories as handmade by traditional Japanese craftsmen are beautiful, beautiful things. The black pieces are slate and the white pieces clam shell. One can go (sic!) overboard and spend over £100,000 for the very finest set but you can enjoy the game for so much less (otherwise, it would have gone extinct). My first set was extremely cheap with a folding board and glass pieces but I could still see the beauty in both the pure gameplay and the physical and visual satisfaction of playing the game. Chess, in all its variants, has never appealed as much to me as Go. I am a mathematician, so the abstract simplicity of the rules and the vast strategic gameplay probably find a receptive audience in me. My love of the Arts makes me passionate about Japanese craftsmanship in general. If anyone wants to browse a renowned Japanese retailer of both Go and Shogi ( a Japanese variant of chess which I also own and play), then click below:
Japanese Online Retailer in English): kurokigoishiten.com/en
I am a regular follower of SU&SD and also have a vast collection of board games, started about 55 years ago when I was in my mid-teens, but which is ever-growing. I do watch and occasionally back games on Gamefound, Kickstarter et alia, and own a large number of BGG-rated games. “Aren’t all board games BGG-rated?” “Well, yes, perhaps… but I meant top-ranking games”. Let’s not start a conversation about whether the BGG algorithms giving the weighted ratings result in a vicious circle of self-reinforcing bias in favour of the most popular titles…
The explanation of the rules and how you count score is very, very on point. I loved the video, I wish I had seen it when it first came out.
That's a well made video, even tho there are some inaccuracies (Like one group you show having two eyes actually only has one, the other is a false eye), but thank you for spreading the love of Go, you managed to show what's exciting about it, I like your enthusiasm !
Just got to the end of the video. Fantastic review, not many beginners can explain the appeal of the game well but I think you nailed it. The difficulty of getting non go players to try it out is true though, getting Power Grid to the table is easier. Hopefully this video will help though get people past the initial barrier.
I've always wanted to learn how to play Go, if for no other reason than to be able to say I can, but this video actually is making me excited about it. Also, the suggestion of starting on a smaller board is giving me an actual pathway to learning it.
Google " the interactive to learn go" it gives you the perfect and complete strt for the game:)
@@chafiqbantla1816 Really? Thanks. I looked up that Silver Star Go thing that was recommended in the video, and I'm not sure I want to spend $40 to learn Go.
@@JosephGorndt no no totally,no neeed,there are alot of free resources to learn go:)
Man i love watching you guys, this is one of my favorite channels now
I have emerged from the chamber of sighs. When i was taught this game, my friend/teacher encouraged me to think of each game as a conversation. Its a deeply rewarding experience to learn and play with a close friend or colleague rather than a program or faceless online master. You get to know each other better and its so much fun to anticipate what the other player will do because you know their character. I also love that this game rewards tact and restraint. Thank you for reviewing. Are you still getting laddered?
One of the metaphorical names for Go is "Hand talk"
This video taught me more about Go than literally ever single tutorial I've read or watched.
This is one of my favourite videos on UA-cam.
"Oh God I'm out of my depth" - Also me every time I play Go.
I've waited for this review since I found out about SU&SD.
I know go is fun to play because I love playing it. What I don't know is how to teach it so that other people realize that it's fun to play. I always feel like I'm either over- or under-explaining, and of the handful of people I've tried to teach, maybe one wanted to play again later. I don't want it to be a game for pretentious weirdos, but I'm probably not the best spokesperson for it.
Hey Quins, interesting illusion that's a part of the board's design: It shaped such that when sitting at the correct angle to the board, it appears square and the piece look like they are hovering.
I think this is finally the video to help me understand the approach and enddgame of Go. I've seen some of Hikaru no Go, but there was always some element of it I never understood. thank you for finally connecting the dots for me.
commenting because I love this game and want it to flourish again. Also loved the vid. Wish I had that go set. It is really beautiful. Because It is actually like art. So many variable that you never feel completely in control but you mix logic, philosophy and feeling together to drive your game in a direction while an opponent does the same. Never really knowing if the piece of art you're making is good until you see it at the end. Love it
Another cool thing about playing somebody way better than you at Go is that usually you don't even realize you're losing until you've already lost, so the feeling of defeat only happens for a little while, at the end.
Go is a wonderful time. When's the Mahjong review, LOL?
Need one, that game is confusing
@@aymodaslacker8852 It's just a mix of rummy and poker.
@@aymodaslacker8852 Chinese Mahjong is pretty easy. I'm sure you can find a list of rules somewhere.
As for Japanese Mahjong... there's a 3.5 hour video here on UA-cam. You will find it by just searching for "Mahjong tutorial". I watched the entire thing a while back, it's quite good.
@@Yotanido oh God three hours, it really took that long to explain rules?
What about a Backgammon review?
Amazingly accurate characterization of Go from a euro gamers perspective. I have 2 work friends who got into Go with me (a euro gamer). I cant introduce it to euro gaming friends... It doesn't get through how amazing it is. My mind was blown by the game. So much depth.
Already knew a bit about Go and started learning recently but this video is incredibly well researched and put together. And In Sente is the one place to really learn some solid Go!
hikaru no go is such a classic, it's one of the few animes I can always go back to watch and love.
The music, the character development, the study of the game, I remember watching that with an ex-girlfriend and we both love that series to dead up to this day.
When the manga was in shonen jump was the first time I heard of go and it missed me by a mile then but Quins did it. This looks like a cool game.
I was a bit disappointed by the end of the series.
It is absolutely amazing even if you don't care for Go
I am a passionate Go player myself. But seriously, am I the only one with a literal headache after so much laughing at "you're comparing rocket science to farting."?
I laughed like hell at the unexpected, but totally apropos, use of WWTBAM? think music.
Once you play Go for longer, you will feel the need to have go friends. Sharing the experience of growth in knowledge with others is so important.
A little mini game you can play using Go is a game called Five. Black and white take turns to place 1 piece on the board anywhere on the intersection of the lines. The first to have 5 pieces of their colour to line up consecutively in a vertical, horizontal or diagonal line win the games. Players can choose to block their opponents during their own turns; such as black already have 3 black piece in a vertical line, White can place at either ends of the black line to prevent the black from going in that direction. And block the black if they place the 4th piece on the opposite side of where you've blocked.
In the same vein, I'd love to see you guys review Shogi.
I will do you one better. Taikyoku Shogi! (ultimate shogi)
Chess for kids, there's your review.
@@qpangfreak Obvious Troll is Obvious.
This video got me into go
I was introduced to Go in my hight school Japanese club. It sort of dropped off my radar though because I couldn’t get a good sense of the game (and I had no one to play with). Thank you for your easy to understand video you have convinced me to get back into it.
15:10
are we just gonna ignore that quinns launched a stone directly onto a board with pieces on it already and PERFECTLY lodged it into a new shape?
great video btw i havent touched go since i was 9 years old but i may look into getting a copy when i can afford it:)