ROUND COLUMN MILL PART 1, (Grizzly, Wrong Foo, Harbor Freight) PRECISION HOLE DRILLING, MARC LECUYER
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2024
- This video (PART ONE OF TWO) introduces us to problems inherent to round column mills and shows how to work around them to get the most out of these inexpensive bench type milling machines. More specifically, we will be looking at precision hole drilling without using a digital readout. As for all thatlazymachinist videos, this video is aimed at the novice machinist who wishes to develop proper basic work skills. MARC LECUYER, thatlazymachinist.com
I always admired the round column machines as real workhorses, with the minor disadvantage of loosing the alignment when chaning the height of the head..but you showed a good method to get around this :)
+Stefan Gotteswinter To spot center punched holes for drilling I loosen up the clamp on my round column mill and use a spud spike in the chuck. Then when I have the spud point in the punch mark I lock the column clamp. It is pretty quick, and easy, and accurate enough for me. So the round column mill getting knocked out of whack when the clamp is loosened is not always a disadvantage.
+Paul Frederick Hi Paul another great way of doing it! Thanks for sharing, Marc
THATLAZYMACHINIST
Yeah I call my spud tool my spuddy buddy. I used to sit there with magnifying glasses cranking the axis handles. With a spud it is loosen the lock, bring the spud down into the dimple, give the spindle a manual twist to make sure the spud is centered, lock the quill into the dimple, then tighten up the column clamp. Lined up.
If you get a large end mill that wants to go for a walk they will overcome the clamp friction in a hurry!
@@pvtimberfaller I have the same mill as in this video, but I bought mine in 1998. If you tighten the nuts properly, and I use moly to lube them, they won’t ever slip, no matter how much you abuse the milling bits. I’ve used a 5” dia surface mill on this machine. No problem.
Well, always learn something looking at Marc's video. Very clear english easy to understand for foreign like me. One of my favourite without doubt.
good job i have a jet round column mill and have been trying to to solve this problem I was using a laser pointer attached to mill head and shooting 20 feet across my shop at a graduated target??!!
I have this mill. I talked to a machinist and he told me to flycut the table with the mill head. This
solves the alignment and the rough table issues common to these mills. I had to remove about 35 thousands from the table to achieve both.
"or if you prefer, the A hole" Brilliant. cracked me up. thanks for the vid.
"a hole or b hole"
Could you do a vidio on the way that you shimmed the colunm and how you check it for perfect 90 from table surface. Love your other work. Thanks for taken time for others. I have learned alot from u. Keep up the good work!
I suspect he doesn't ever want to undo his after all the work that it took to do it in the first place. But I, too, would love to see it.
Excellent video marc- as always !
I noticed that when reaming you shut the machine down before extracting the reamer - is there a reason for this or just habit?
If any viewers have the tilting column (x2) type mill it is important to check the column alignment and tram at the same time as the head of this type of mill is two castings bolted together and not pinned so there is some play and it can move around on you.
You can end up with the head trammed ok but the column tilted so the tool will travel off centre as you raise the head .
That off-axis problem never occured to me. Very interesting. You rock.
Thank for this help. Many good ideas.I bought the Chinese mill/drill. Worse then yours and have an uncorrectable error. There is no quill the head moving downwards on a rack, which theoretically wrong. I will make a video of the modification if I ever do it. I enjoy your videos, you are the teacher for accuracy. Thanks Mark. From Montreal
Thankyou for posting about round column Mills. Mine is undergoing surgery and I've found a problem I hope you may be able to solve for me....
The jib strips are tapered and the screw that locates in the jib strip slot is a very poor fit with about 1.5 to 2mm end float. When moving toward the post, the jib strip moves towards the operator, making it loose. Moving the other way, it becomes tight on the Dover
Tails. I am planning on a stud....tight into the tapped hole, and hopefully 2 nuts, either side of a zero backlash washer which will engage the jib strip slot. I will also replace the jib strip adjusting keys with a long allen keyed grub screw with locking nuts. Any better suggestions?
Many thanks David
Very interesting , informative and educational. Thank you for making this extremely useful video. 👏👏👍😀
Thank you for teaching us about the relationships between the A holes And B Holes. 🤣
All jokes aside as a machinist myself u have always wondered how accurate these were and this is an awesome video
Nice video. I just emailed to my brother because he has one of those mills. Keep up the great work.
Dale d
That's funny, because I just did the same, for the same reason. :)
I have had mine for a short time and I’m not a machinist. But I have worked with them in times passed. I have a large tilt machine vise mounted to my table and it works just fine. The more I use it the more I see it’s advantages. With that I can make it true. It’s not hard at all. Now with that said I’m not machining close tolerance. If I had to do close tolerance I can not see that stopping me. Now if I was doing production work it, still once it is locked down I still don’t see a problem as long as you have a way to put the piece back in the same place. In this case I make me a jig. I can do more with this because the head does move. I’m a fast learner. I have done moved the head sssooooo many times that it just come second nature to put it in the position that I need and still cut everything the same every time. I really like this machine.
Marc what kind of mill are you using in your shop,110,220., horsepower etc thanks. Really enjoy your teaching,
Methods
Great video. I just bought one of these too. Does anyone know if the owner's manual is available?
Good afternoon sir,
I just picked up this mill from a coworkers father for free! It was never used and had been sitting in the barn for years. Do you have any videos on disassembly of the head from column?i need to clean out rust grime from the column area that meets base. Where the rack sits and slide while rotating
Mark thanks so much for this video. I had asked you for this a little while back and was so pleased to see you had produced it. Can hardly wait for any follow-on videos on the subject.
Keith
***** I am working on part 2 but with the nice weather I am a busy guy! I hope to have it completed by next week. Thanks for watching and for commenting. Marc L'Ecuyer
Is there an explanation somewhere of how the quill handles work? I have a ZAY gear head like an RF45 i believe. It was in very neglected shape ( a lot of grime and surface rust )and I disassembled it and re painted and cleaned everything up. My only issue now is the the fine quill adjustment wheel in front works great. but the drill press handle is very tight and hard to turn a all when I try to drop the quill, like a drilling operation. What does the hand knob in the enter actually do? I see where it engages the two conical surfaces. does the big sliver part ( the part that's shaped like a flower pot on its side.)of the horizontal shaft turn, or is it pressed or keyed to the shaft? the drill press handle casting is keyed on. I had no reason to take the big silver part off the shaft, ( I thought it was pressed on),but maybe its stuck or something and I should remove it for clean up and lube.
Thank You Marc for showing this and all your great series!! I've been sub'd for a while but haven't commented till now. My brother too has a newer version of this mill and we just went through the tedious tramming...interesting that his table had some grinding related irregular depths in about 3 places so it added to the "What the heck" process of tramming a column mill. I sent him your links b4 and will tell him to watch this one and Pt 2...Really Great stuff you bring!! Thanks much...never too old or smart to learn more and better ways...~PJ
Another great and informative video. Thank you.
adjusting the column is straight forward, although a video on this would be welcome.
I would be very interested in what could be done if the column and Quill axis were not co-linear, how could this be adjusted. cheers
This was a very interesting series, my friend. Many thanks.
Fantastic as usual Marc!
Hi marc, this is the best guide i found ever. Can you please go into depth about making the pillar exactly perpendicular, which leads to having perfectly parallel cut in relation to the material. Im still a student and was able to get a mill similar to yours but slightly smaller i thing, but i never liked it as it is not precise :/ with your help i may be able to get it going in mint condition hopefully, as i don't afford a better one. Thanks a lot marc!!
Ryan Degiorgio did you find information?
Thanks Marc I have just installed a mill like yours. So this video has come at a good time
Late as usual; there are other ways to work within the longest tool method. By using spotting drills instead of center drills the shortest tool is made longer. Only 2 or 3 diameters of spotting drills are really necessary. Screw machine length twist drills also compress the size range compared to standard twist drills. Finally, reamer shanks can be shortened further narrowing the differences in lengths of the various tools. Use a GOOD drill chuck and it will help a lot as well.
Hello Marc,
Those little mills can do some serious work if only they can be mastered...
But I wouldn't melt my big mill to make 12 of those... lol
Great teaching, Pierre
Thanks for the vid Marc, I guess I do the longest tool method instinctively, I did learn from and enjoy the vid. I have a benchtop column mill, but I can tram my head, not like your machine which has no rotation on the head. Stub drills are great on my mill.
While I don't have a round column mill (I have a Tree knee mill), I appreciate the problem you're describing & the video. Part 2 may answer this, but I'm not sure that I understand the switch to the drill press. Would the resulting misalignment not be dramatic enough if you were to change the Z axis on the round column mill for the second set of holes? I.e. why not a test on the round column exactly opposite of your "long-tool-method?"
I use ER collets in addition to the regular ones. They stick out a little under 2 inches and that extends the endmill enough that it is rare to have to move the head.
Hi, I have the exact same mill. I'm missing the top cover and I presume the speed reference chart that is likely attached. If possible could you please send me through a photo of your speed reference chart on your and if possible the make of your mill as mine has no makers stamp any were else on the body of the mill without its top cover.
thanks vey much for the upload!!!! But what exactly is the end mill u used in the beginning? Is it a 1 inch square end mill? Those cost 276$ from MSC is this correct?
NeptuneKnives Hi, it is a carbide insert (2,triangular) end mill, they are quite inexpensive ( under 100 dollars with a box of inserts). This may seem like a lot but you must remember that the inserts have three cutting points on them so they can be used three times each. So one cutter with two inserts is like three end mills. And once the inserts are worn you can buy more but reuse the holder. For a lot of home jobs I find this type of cutter most economic. Thanks for watching and sorry for the long delay, Marc L'Ecuyer
Old video, I know. I'm attracted to these mill/drills due to price and size. Not that I want something cheap, but my needs, which are essentially hobby only, don't justify a large knee mill. Though I'd love a Bridgeport. Anyway, could the column on these mills be made with a key way in the column for the alignment issue??
Bob C i have researched this and yes it can depending on accuracy requirementsz some have drilled and fixed the guide the machine uses to raise and lower with "good enough" results using a shimming method at top and bottom of head. Most information I have found is that the cost and time and potentially ill affects of milling the column and head for a precise keyway that it would be cheaper to sell and buy different. That being said I still like my round column mill.
as always, a very clear and teaching video!
tks
I have a mill such as yours. I teamed the head in by making four washers .1 1/2" in diameter x 1/4" thick with a clearance hole in the center for the column bolts. I surface ground flat and parallel first . Then put one washer under each corner of the column making sure the area was clean. I tighten the bolts down. I put an indicator in the spindle and had the indicator swing a radius of about the width between the bolts on the column. I took a reading on the table first . I can't remember readings. If it were. .003 out l would remove the two washers on the high side and grind off .003 on the pair.
Then put them back in place and check the table reading again. If that brought it in I would move on to the cross slide. Here is where it is a little trickier. If you got
.005 out you would remove the two washers on the side that was high and grind..005 off Each washer separately and each washer needs to go back to exactly where it came from!! That should tram everything in. Important!! If the washers are ever removed they must go back to where they came from or it will throw everything out!! It works I did it to my machine year ago and got with in .0005" . It has stayed there . It is much more solid than shims . When I first got my machine I did use shims . Hope this helps you and maybe some of your viewers.
Good Luck
i was putting drill bits in collets instead of using a chuck!!! i have the same mill
Excellent. Thanks for sharing.
Hello I have the same machine and I was wondering if you have had problems with your spindle or the spindle bearings and if so where did you find your replacement parts ? Thank you for your great videos I'm a subscriber to your channel for a while now 👍👍👍
+Milspecmachine Sorry but I haven't had any problems with the bearings yet. If I do I will let you know. However my machine was bought at Busy Bee tools in Canada. I usually get my replacement parts from them (for machines that I bought there). Here is a link to the contact page on their website. I hope this helps? Thanks for watching, Marc
flineman, you have "reply" disabled. You can also use a mirror at some distance, arranged so the laser spot on the target is near the mill for easier seeing and more accurate adjustments. It was not mentioned, but the laser pointer is rigidly attached to the mill head, and a target is used to replicate positioning of the head on its swivel axis. The target can be a simple vertical line on the wall.
Hi Marc
I noticed that you stopped the mill with the reamer in the hole and then withdrew it. Is there a reason for this please?
Great videos by the way . thanks
Allan
Allan Winks Hi Allan, in order to keep the hole as tight as possible, I like to stop the rotation of the tool before retraction in order to avoid a possible second cut (rubbing) on the way out. I have always had good results with this technique but I must admit that I do it as I was taught. I never tested the technique to verified its effectiveness. It made sense to me when I was an apprentice and I kept on doing it. Thanks for watching and thanks for the question, Marc L'Ecuyer
Thanks Marc that makes sense to me.
You have a good looking vise on that machine. Where did you get it?
Fantastic! I love your videos. I have never been happy with my drill/mill and love to hear methods to tweak it's accuracy. I would love to hear any suggestions re preventing the moveable jaw upward movement. Also, whether using a laser would help with realignment when the head is moved.
+Peter Scott Hi Peter, I investigate whether a laser can be used as well as a few other methods in part 2 of this video. Here is a link to that video ua-cam.com/video/8tVKFgsnCsM/v-deo.html remember that you can find all my shop videos (over 100) on my free webpage thatlazymachinist.com
+Peter Scott
Can you not put a laser in a collet and use that to align the head over the datum after you have altered the head position?
G'day Marc thank you for your great videos on these mills, I would like your opinion on if a ZX 30 would be a good buy for milling live steam locomotive parts, from 5" to 7 1/4" gauge. I have heard that there are problems associated with rigidity especially on the Z axis. I would really like your input. Thank you regards John Kinnane Tasmania Australia
+John Kinnane I am sure Marc will add hie unique perspective, but for what its worth, I have one of these and find it quite adequate. I would of course prefer a large 3 phase monster, but that is just not practical. I have had no issues with rigidity, but I am quite diligent about keeping the head as low as is reasonable to reduce the quill extension. My biggest gripe is the belt drive. I find I do not change speeds as often as I should, and therefore run the machine a little slower than I could. I am pondering adding and VFD. Otherwise, I think for the price these are a good compromise between cost, size and being single phase.
Anybody know where I can score the upper belt cover for a rong fu 25
Great video thank you.
Thank you!
I wish I could attend your classes in person.
Oh boy, I had 10 years of "longest tool" and muttered a few choice words during the times I forgot. Not the least sorry about upgrading to a knee mill... ;-)
***** , I still have one. I'm getting some collet extensions so I can see how they work with this technique.
Nice Aholes and Bholes.
هل يوجد لكم فرع في العراق
It's RongFu the "Wrong Foo" in the title must be a funny(?) but I don't get the joke if it is one.
Boy I would never buy one of them Mills when you change the z-axis and raised it that column swung side to side
C'mon man, you know in your heart that it's the A holes that shoulda got rteamed ;)
i remember the time i drilled my first b hole
I cannot believe that someone hasn't come up with a dro to solve this round column problem I think it could be done with a laser or maybe two and they are cheap these days
Z axis and quill axis are identical
great info... but isn't it about time you guys go metric?😉
Dear Marc, thank you very much
Lesson: 69
is this the mill you're demonstrating?
www.harborfreight.com/1-1-2-half-horsepower-heavy-duty-milling-drilling-machine-33686.html
สุดยอด
He said "A Hole" heee hee
Hahahha, you said A holes lol