The Biggest Train Fiasco in Europe? - The AnsaldoBreda V250's New Life in Italy!
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- Опубліковано 15 чер 2024
- Follow me on Twitter / intercitysimon
Today, I'm taking you on a trip onboard the infamous AnsaldoBreda V250 high-speed train, originally built to operate in the Netherlands and Belgium. After a disastrous introduction plagued by delays and defects, the trains were put into service for just 39 days before being taken out of operation due to numerous faults, defects, and even structural issues. Join me on a journey to explore their new life after a resurrection by Trenitalia, the Italian national train operator.
Train type: ETR 700 (Fyra / AnsoldoBreda V250)
Route: Milano Centrale - Venezia Santa Lucia
Train: AV 9741
Distance: 268km
Journey time: 2h33m
Average speed: 105 km/h
Price: From 20€
At least they found another way to use the train. It would have been a shame if the train went to the scrapyard after such a short time
One of these trains is standing around in Libya…
@@thomasnovacek4686 there's also a Danish IC4 unit sitting in Libya iirc, and the DSB IC4 is also an AnsaldoBreda product.
@@johannessamuelsson6578 at least some Danish IC4 are in use in Romania though. And to be honest: They aren't too bad :D
AWFUL EUROPEAN TRAINS WITH NO ROTATING SEATS ❗
ALL ASIAN HIGH SPEED TRAINS HAVE THIS BASIC FEATURE ❗
That is a good point, even if they never get to be used fully for their intented life.
The trains were called "Aldi-trains" in the Netherlands and Belgium and it 'forced' Aldi in Belgium to publish a statement in which they objected to that nickname, because it gave Aldi a bad name
I'm not sure about their new paradigm, but in the 2000s they always had their Aldi principle printed onto their flyers: "Das Aldi-Prinzip - Qualität ganz oben, Preis ganz unten" which means "The Aldi Principle - Quality on the top, prices on the bottom" and the markets were very minimalistic, however they also got a lot of criticism because of not so good work conditions and union busting.
However, while the European/German branch of Wal-Mart failed after a few years (the people were rather annoyed by things like the greeter and packer personnel, they rather want to go shopping here without these bells and whistles at least for everyday stuff like groceries), the revenge: Aldi and Lidl USA are very successful, seemingly because they don't have these bells and whistles I already mentioned that are typical in the US.
And I remember that in the past the Aldis in Western Germany were often visited by Turkish guest worker families (their common car was a Ford Granada Turnier (huge estate/wagon)) didn't have the best image, in the match of FC Bayern München vs Besiktas Istanbul in 1997 the Bayern fans greeted them with these typical blue-white patterned Aldi bags and that was a racism scandal (in the second match the Istabul fans rang cow bells all the time 😁), but nowadays literally everyone goes grocery shopping at Aldi, together with Lidl they even have some merch clothing.
@@kuchenblechmafiagmbh1381
AWFUL EUROPEAN TRAINS WITH NO ROTATING SEATS ❗
ALL ASIAN HIGH SPEED TRAINS HAVE THIS BASIC FEATURE ❗
It was a feature of the Japanese trains extended to all the Asian trains as much of them are designed by Japanese companies. In Europe it's not considered an issue travelling backward @@matpk
@@matpk you make me laugh!🤭😄
Aahhh, Ansaldo my old friend. What a life you lived. Like the IC4 adventure, the IC2 sequel, the V250 fiasco, the M32 rust issues and probably the best memory of them all, the Type 72 winter problems. 😂
We in America sadly have been the victims of AnsaldoBreda's hunks of junks as well...
Maintenance hog subway cars in DC, overweight and noisy tram cars in San Francisco, and derailing trams in Boston.
Good riddance to AnsaldoBreda, creator of some of Europe's worst lemons
@@LuckyFlanker13 the only working thing might be the metro trains in Copenhagen😅
So they are worse than the DSB IC4 also made by AnsaldoBreda? That is an accomplishment in itself!
Yes, very impressive.
I'd say DSB IC4 were worse. At least the fiasco was worse. DSB could not do away with the trains , without going bankrupt.. NS rail was able to do without the V250 ...
Still the disastrous costs of V250 keep compoinding, as NS paid the license to use the high speed line HSL Zuid for years , without having a proper train..
I get your comparisation.. the acually answer: no its not worse as the DSB IC4! ITs sadly a non valid question. As the V250 case deals on the NS management, culture, politics and other presets that allows an ocean of modifications on an off shelll meant product and an own riders manual that does not fit to the limitsistructions of the train
@@MarcelDekker-il3vw What is this a reference to? It's normal for a train company to order a fleet of trains with modifications, with the manufacturer (or a related company) implementing those modifications to the design, or rejecting the changes if they are deemed not viable. That is, to my knowledge, also the procedure that NS normally follows. Is that not what happened in this case?
@@crytocc I dont think you get it. It not normal to reconstruct off shell trains fully; every nut and bold. That is build a new train, not from scratch. that is asking for problems surely. As the limits of the original concept are still fit in; even when nothing seems last. its like turn a 2cv into a Ferrari 308!
2:14 "including some of the finest Italian cuisine"
proceeds to show mcdonalds
lol
McBain: “That’s the joke.”
You understood the joke!
truly brilliant moment
hahahaha
fun fact: the train you see at 7:08 is the same model train as the new high speed train that replaced the fyra in the Netherlands in 2023.
At the outside its is a Alstom Coradia Stream, so it looks the sam, but a lot of the techinical stuff is different.
strange for us Italian that's a regional train nothing special
thats just a regional train tho, they usually travel at max speeds of 150kmh
Yup. Funnily enough, Alstom Coradia is basically a regional train, but the Dutch pushed it to reach 200 km/h to become a high-speed train on the HSL-Zuid line. If I were NS, I’d rather purchasing Velaro trains or perhaps Stadler SMILE.
@@bembs0256 calling a 200kmh modified regional train High Speed Train is wild
In 1981 the French built the 1st true HST line in Europe, then they broke the world speed record on rails 3 times, 1981: 380 kph, 1990: 515 kph, 2007: 574 kph. Belgians thought "If the French did it, we can too!". They launched their own "TGV" (FYRA 250) on december 2012. Pathetic failure. Breakdowns, premature rust, pieces lost in the countryside, front hood cover, some bolts lost too... After a month of operations, less than 45% of trains ran on schedule. FYRA 250 was finally abandonned on 18 january 2013. Only one month running! Huge laugh burst in Europe...
I'm from the Netherlands and at the time the withdrawal from these trains seemed to be a highly political decision. Many technicians pleased in buying the trains at reduced price and solve the issues themselves. Crappy as they were, they would have run for years now instead of 12 years later.
The most important issues certainly could have been fixed, but the train overall still seemes pretty bad in its ride quality and the interior isnt really a masterpiece either, the looks on the outside and jokes on the design aside. It certainly was a waste of material, but they did not seem to want to take further risks with these trains.
The Italians did almost rebuild these trains at high costst. It seemed that all the trains had some kind of different wiring on the electrical systems, even cables had different colorschemes. And even today one train set is set apart for ... parts. Just in case.
These trains would never have been able to run properly because a lot of rust formed within a short period of time and deformations occurred that made them dangerous to operate. Ansaldo was probably only able to solve these problems when they got the trains back.
Check the Belgian presentation of the report on the defects.
Basically they received 10 unique trains. All of them had different parts, different wiring and were put together differently. This made repairs almost impossible. Also they weren't built for snow as that's not a thing in Italy.
@@NiekNooijens There is a lot more snow in Italy than in the Netherlands.
This train look amazing! No carpets and leather - perfect!
Until you drove it and the parts flew around from the vibrations...
@@edogrol7482 Maybe, but at least the cabin look great. I wish other operators would have trains like this. Airplane leather seats and no carpets and not any crazy colors or patterns🙂
Thank you Simon. One of my favourite routes anywhere, for perhaps obvious reasons.
The Dutch Railways wanted so many adjustments that it ultimately became a completely new design, which of course had many teething problems...
Well, those trains seem to be pretty shaky at max speed.
And noisy af (expecially if you are below the pantograph)
8:30 “the door here wasn’t working” proceeds to open the door he said was broken.. 😂
I guess since it's supposed to be accessible it's supposed to open automaticlly by pushing the button and you are not supposed to have to open and close the door manually.
Thank you for the video. Your camerawork and voiceover are superb. Before the Fyra went into regular service I took it from Rotterdam to Amsterdam Schiphol Airport when it was testing. Cheap plastic seats back then.
Thank you!
I travel frequently on these trains. I cannot complain. Except for the insufficient number of toilets, the train is ok in my opinion.
They quite literally fell apart here in NL. Huge safety concerns with this one.
To be fair the train was only one of the issues with the whole Fyra-project. They also tried to shove a system of mandatory reservations and an airline style price system through passenger's throats. That was never going to work on this line, since it is also used for commuting and because it isn't the norm in Belgium and the Netherlands. The classic intercity service that was meant to be replaced didn't have this and still doesn't have it, but they did massively increase prices as soon as the train started to go over the high speed line, with negligible to no decrease in journey time.
When the high speed line is closed for maintenance, the train will use the classic route and you can use tickets meant for that route. In my case this leads to a price decrease of about fifty percent. (And the view out of the window is a lot better as well.)
Not on High Speed levels, a local train now !
in the netherlands, the journey time is shortened by 30 minutes (gained between amsterdam and rotterdam, the hsl route via breda and noorderkempen is 1 minute faster than the route trough roosendaal), however belgium added 35 extra minutes by forcing it to make a detour trough brussels-airport, and forcing the trains to stop at both antwerpen centraal and antwerpen berchem
@@melaniedrogr951 That’s only valid when traveling to/from Amsterdam and for this only the northern part of the high speed line is responsible, not the part that crosses the border.
Also there are good reasons to stop in both stations, because walking distances at Antwerpen-Berchem are often significantly shorter than when changing at Antwerpen-Centraal. Plus, it serves quite a big part of the city.
@@patrickreuvekamp so? The fact is still that the dutch part of the amsterdam-brussels section got 30 minutes faster, the belgium part got 35 minutes slower.
The section between rotterdam and antwerp did not get slower, despite belgium wanting a station in the middle of nowhere (noorderkempen).
@@melaniedrogr951 The line could only be built with the permission of the local governments. So for their permission, they demanded a station in return. Not sure if it went through, but there were threats of the local government taking the train company to court because the station didn't get enough service.
the danish IC4 trains are another italian masterpiece..
that's the same company behind the ETR1000, one of the best high speed trains worldwide, who knows how they got that right
@@Harry93IT because that train was originally a Bombardier train.
@@gab_v250 they worked together on the model but probably Bombardier singlehandedly saved the project
@@Harry93IT Frecciarossa 1000 are almost completely Hitachi, they were part of Bombardier's Zefiro family. AnsaldoBreda just operated as an assembler.
You can actually see the hsr line that is being built between verona and vicenza from the train
Never been to Milano C, but I could Not Imagine the inner perspective beeing such a twin to Leipzig.
I took the return leg last year. Was pretty comfortable, but yeah I refrained from using the toilets. Otherwise pretty good!
I rode this train last year from Milan to Venice and back. It was a pretty good journey. The train was clean, and the crew was nice. My only complaint is how narrow the train is. I sat in 2nd class at the bays of four, and my legs often bumped into the passenger sitting opposite me. Also, the train made some strange noises coming from the ceiling and the gangway.
But overall, it was quite a comfortable journey.
Sounds much like my experience, not great trains but at least trenitalia made them acceptable for some use
@@Simon-Andersen I ride these trains almost daily, and indeed they are the least loved by passengers and crews alike, nothing like the classic and marvelous ETR500, nor the beautiful Frecciarossa1000 (ETR400) that is capable of 350 km/h. Everybody knows Trenitalia got the ETR700s cheap, because AnsaldoBreda wanted to recover at least part of the costs, and still they had to rebuild them almost entirely: the original seats had a different arrangement (that's why they don't match the windows), the onboard café had to be shoved in somehow, there is no Executive class nor Premium (only Business and Coach), there are too few toilets, and so on. Plus, they're ugly as hell. Still, they do the job - it never happened to me that one broke as I was riding it. However, Trenitalia just ordered another 50 Frecciarossa1000, so hopefully they'll get rid of the ETR700s as soon as they can, or push them down to minor lines.
Some carriages on these units emit a deafening electrical buzzing noise above certain speeds, I’m surprised you missed it during the tour.
That issue has been solved now
I did not notice it on my trip!
The train front and back look like an old generation Shinkansen though. Thanks for the review. Btw I like this grey business class colour scheme.
FYI, "C" before "e" and "i" pronounce like "tsch" (in German), so it's 'milano Tschentrale" and "Santa Lutschia". Otherwise, excellent!
For some absolutely inexplicable reasons the high speed line between milan and venice is being built to 250kph standard instead of the usual 300kph.
I have to say the Fyra always looked interesting. From a design standpoint I feel sad it failed, since both the V250 and it's original livery looked amazing! It's cool to see the train run in Italy now, certainly considering it took took them 4+ years to get them operational! I can't help but notice however that at 250km/h the train looks really wobbly. Not sure if that's a track or a trainset problem though.
And yet, they've been operating normally in Italy...
Not to defend a faulty project, but sometimes machines need some running-in to shave off the imperfections.
Getting rid of them after a few days looks more like political hysteria.
The thing is, these trains got a complete overhaul to resolve their severe technical shortcomings. Not just a running-in, as you said.
@@kavindurankoth8597 A complete overhaul would have not made economical sense.
I heard of problems like doors not closing properly, which could potentially be attributed to the smallest and stupidest part. Easy corrections to make.
While the main problem seemed to be related to snowy conditions, as the Dutch insisted to operate the V250 at maximum speed even in adverse weather, against the advice of the constructor. So, ice used to build up on the bottom of the trains, damaging them.
Nothing fundamentally wrong with the project. Such defects could've been shaved off without drama.
Travelling to Venice? Make sure you don't end up in a small town in Northern Sweden lmao.
3:30 ah yes, Frecciarossa 1000 - a Bombardier product. Also the Stadler SMILE looks lovely.
I always wondered where they disappeared😂😂 I guess they went to Italy😅 could you come back to Finland and take the o train to kotkan satama cuz there IS A LITERAL SEA MUSEUM NEXT TO THE TRACK anyways you could film a vlog perhaps 🤔 I have said this almost always in your comments but as always good video🫵🏻😊👍🏻
I was on this exact route 1,5 weeks ago when i went on my finals vacation with my friends.
That Thumbnail,even on a Holiday you need them...
@@lucasrem What?
The biggest train fiasco in Europe - those are big words for someone from the country of IC4 😉
At least we got the IC4s running eventually :P
As a regular traveller on the Milan-Venice route, I try to avoid them whenever possible, taking italo or choosing one of the few frecce operated by other rolling stock instead. The ride quality is poor, the seats are rock hard, window alignment is terrible and many parts of the train look like they're about to fall apart
Well... Maybe the SNCB/NMBS should have kept them : right now, the new Alsthom M7 (which are great, even if the building quality was not always perfect at delivery) are entering service with so much delay that old and decrepit M4 cars pulled by old and decrepit HLE 27 Locomotives are still in use on intercity services (not for long, hopefully).
On the High-speed "Benelux" train front, on the other hand, they were replaced by the IC NG, so it's a win.
Jeg elsker du Simon ❤❤❤❤❤❤
takker!
The interior still looks better then the Amtrak trains in the US.
I would call that a pretty low bar to clear.
It seems there are a lot of prejudice about ETR700. They are fine short distance HST.
Ok, they are not the ETR400 (Frecciarossa 1000), but are fine for the Milano - Venice.
I think DSB got something like Italian TAFs…
Lol, two hours ago I watched the review from simply railway and than this was released😂. Simply railway complained about that the train is making strange noises, is this still the case?
I think they managed to fix some of the noise, but its not a super quiet train
they are called frecciarossa but don't have executive and premium class?
Rode this train from Venice to Milan in January 2024. I had a great converstation with the conductor on an otherwise uneventful trip except I wish I had clocked the speed on speed app.
haha, i mention AnsaldoBreda products in your last video. Funny you released one today
Congrats to Nick Nielsen and Denmark winning 2024 Le Mans 24 hrs for Ferrari
the train it's very undersized especially on longer routes such as the adriatic corridor; i would add a couple of extra toilets and seating coaches/carriages
The doors between the cars look like something from the soviet union.
Even the paint job is like soviet.
And much of the other interior, especially the toilet, looked like something made in russia.
Škoda and Newag trains (probably also Pesa) have much more of a quality feeling.
Mentioning train stations. What happened to Copenhagen main station? It looks horrible.
Underinvestment in anything but the most needed stuff as common in Denmark public transport
I lived next to the track where they tested this and it was a disaster from the start. At one time the bottom Of the train just fell off. It costed the tax payers so much money for nothing
9:44 HAHAHA!! That brings IC4 to mind again... It was ALSO an Italian train....... I wonder how long the new Storstrøm Bridge will last... It's also an Italian contractor which have already had a donkeydrooping ton of issues from "wrong" Concrete to cheating they workers.
I hope the new bridge will last, im from lolland so i cross it frequently!
@@Simon-Andersen Lots hope so then! XD I am sitting up here in safe little Copenhagen :P
Bigger than Leipzig Hbf ?
honestly when the trains worked and didnt litterly fall apart at 250kph they were great
it was just a rolling death trap with the state they were in
no there is no exuse for how poorly they were build
they have been send back to the factory a few times and the NS did test them after that but they were still unable to meet minimum standards and since the belgians completely quit on the train which made them useless NS just said fuck it trow them away
now the italians arent 100% to blame only like 80% they still build them to such a poor state but the NS also did a poor job with even trusting ansaldo breda in the first place and the things they wanted with the tight budget ansaldo breda should have just said no this is clearly not possible with this budget like all the others but they got big headed and thought meh well fix it
and NS did fuck all when it comes to properly testing the things before they entered service which if they did they would have seen that the things were death traps and should be fixed before they entered service but that also was due to the delays and the haste which was required due to the NS wanting to get it over with and move on
altho NS has learned from its mistakes mostly because they got a lot of shit for their stupidity and the goverment has been holding them on a tight leash ever since and does things better now
im also glad italians also learned from this and atleast managed to salvage them
and altho the dutch probably wont order trains from italy anymore mostly due to public distrust and even i have a automatic distrust to italian trains because of my personal experiences with the V250 i do hope some day that trust will get a chance to be repaired
La veritá non la sapremo mai. LA Breda ha una tradizione di quasi 90 anni nella costruzione di composizioni bloccate. Il primo fu il ETR 200 che raggiunse nel 1932 la velocitá di oltre 200 km/h. Ed era tutta elettromeccanica pura. Bisogna capire chi ha ordinato cosa con le specifiche del cliente. Questo disastro ha sicuramente più padri. E Bombardier ha fatto di peggio. Personale interinale che si doveva portare gli attrezzi da casa.
Not gonna lie: I was expecting a shot of the view from Desenzano del Garda train viaduct (just before pulling into the Desenzano del Garda - Sirmione station) 😢.
I hope that despite you didn't show it in the video, you didn't miss the view, check-in the grey interior or the semi-working toilet 😂😢
I don't recall the viaduct! That is a big mistake on my research!
@@Simon-Andersen No what a pity ☹️: although it is understandable, the viaduct isn't really long, and the view on the Garda lake (it was on the left side of the train in your case) can be covered easily by a train running in the opposite direction, when your train goes in the direction from Milan to Venice; also the travel time on the viaduct is really just a few seconds if the train doesn't slow down to stop at Desenzano/Sirmione train station.
BTW a tip to not miss it out next time 😉:
When you travel from Milan to Venice, start to pay attention for the viaduct soon after your train cross the short tunnel right after the Lonato train station: the train will travel in a trench or surrounded by trees separating the tracks from homes; before the viaduct it will take a right turn, as the turn finish the train will immediately pass from the trench with trees on the side, to the viaduct and its view: is a shot view of few seconds but trust me it's spectacular ☺️. (If your train stops at Desenzano/Sirmione, pay attention as soon as they call the stop for Desenzano/Sirmione)
Instead if you travel from Venice to Milan it is easier to spot: just pay attention soon after your train departs or travels through Desenzano del Garda/Sirmione train station.
BTW when the nee high speed line between Brescia and Verona will be open, the high speed trains will not pass anymore on the viaduct (the high speed trains station for Desenzano Is planned more "inland" compared to the town and the lake). So only those who will take regionals train, or the intercity that will stop at Desenzano/Srimone or Pescheria will be able to admire the view 🙂.
@@francescoboselli6033 Agree 100%, definitely the best view on that journey. Sadly an easily missed one. A family of Chinese tourists was sitting next to me last week, and managed to miss it entirely with kids busy watching their phones, mom asleep, and dad, who had looked out the window the entire time, inexplicably suddenly looking the other way. What a pity.
Ever since the Fyra V250 sets The netherlands didnt drive faster that 160 km/h
??? ICNG drives at 200km/h on the high-speed line.
As someone who was “lucky” to have been on one of the few runs by NS HiSpeed to Brussels, this interior looks like a massive upgrade over the original layout, which felt cramped, cheap and dirty.
And the colors are better. (I personally prefer slightly more 'boring' colors than NS normally uses.)
@@patrickreuvekampthe reason they use those colours is that you won't see dirt that easily, since NS doesn't clean it's trains very often.
@@NiekNooijens Dirt and grime are still easily visible.
From whar I read, the V250s were first made for the Fyra project, so they got an untested product. You have to expect growing pains whenever you get a new product. There were also issues with train equipped for ETCS2 signalling, but the Dutch were late deploying it on the tracks to be used. Trenitalia got them in 2017 and started service in 2019. (during that time Ansaldo Breda was bought by Hitachi). Am curious if Hitachi helped TrenItalia debug and fix the trains, or whether TrenItalia did it on its own, or f the trains were fine if you knew how to operate them.
If they are still in service in 2024, it means they have 5 years of service, so by now, they likely have good reliability on them. But still curous on what modifications (other than cosmetic) TrenItalia had to do prior to putting them in service. 2 years between buying and putting them into service is a long time.
Some growing pains expected of course, but it really sounds like Ansoldo tried to deliver trains that were falling apart :P
@@Simon-Andersen Bombardier (whenh it existed) has produced the Dash-8-400 derivative of the Dash-8 in inherited from de Haviland. SAS airlines bought a number of them and then sued Bombardier because of nose landing gear failures. In court, Bombardier was able to demonstrate that SAS was the only airline with that problem and that its maintenance practices were not in line with the documentation for the plane. SAS lost paid penalty and ended up buying more of them.
I am not protecting AnsaldoBreda, but it is possible that problems with train were made worse by how NS maintained/operated them.
@@Simon-Andersen Another example: CN Bought the United Aircraft Turbo Train in the 1960s. It was way ahead of its time. and comparable to the TGVs (or Talgos) in terms of design. One problem: CN was a railway used to maintaining diesel trains with steam heated passenger cars, while the Turbo was built like an aircraft. While the train was abandonned in USA, CN persisted and it took about 5 years before it got the train to run reliably and it ran for about 10 years before being retired and replaced by the LRC. (next post about that).
@@Simon-Andersen The UAC Turbos purchased by CN were actually built by MLW (Montréal Locomotive Works) under licence. MLW then consulted with CN in the 1970s on what it wanted to replace it. CN asked for modern but conventional train, no fancy electronics , regular diesel engines. So MLW designed the LRC (MLW was bought by Bombardier so it became Bombvardier LRC train, and by that time passenger trains were nationalized under th VIA Rail brand, and VIA purchased LRC trains. ) They proved to be highly unreliable. (for instance, the banking system used mechanical relays as per CN request to not use fancy electronics, and they were very unreliable). But one aspect that made it worse is that VIA Rail didn't have maintenance facilities since many of the train's components had to be maintained from below instead of from the side as were the old steam heated cars. So the unreliability was initailly due to a combination of design flaws as well as inappropriate maintenance facilities. Once VIA built a temporary maintenance faciliti and toyed with design (needed a trench to work from under for instance and they tries different designs) they managed to fix many of the desigh flaws. This was in 1981-1985 time frame and those cars are still in service today. (tough soon to be replaced by conventional heavy Siemens US cars).
idk how the traction interlock allowed the doors to open while moving
If youre refrencing the thumbnail, the train was stationary and its just a bit of editing :P
Competition from the FYRA (AnsaldoBreda V250) was not in the interest of the NMBS as it could have created serious competition for current monopoly holder Thalys (Both NMBS and SNCF are shareholders while the NS is excluded). After the demise of the FYRA Thalys increased the train frequencies between Amsterdam - Brussels and Paris.
true, but the FYRA was still terrible, with parts falling off, trains catching fires, brakes that were rated for not going faster than 160 km/h (the train was meant to be going 250km/h), it had to either be (almost completely) rebuild (like italy did) or scrapped.
Belgium did force the reinstated benelux trains to make a detour trough brussels airport, as well as addding in some extra stops, to artificially make the thalys faster. (after 2009 the beneluxtrains needed 35 more minutes to reach brussels from antwerpen, compared to in 2008)
9:43... 🤣😅 Some message .. 😄
I am not very sad it failed, it's eventual replacement looks so much better. Haven't been on it yet though. I did in the Fyra in the short time it drove in the Netherlands and it was.... meh.
4:00 I can't get over that nose man, that is so ugly. yuk
6:24 Well... that is definitely an upgrade from the Fyra, you get nothing from NS, nada, zip, zilch. First Class means "slightly better seat at almost double the price" in the Netherlands. There jused to be a trolley service by Wagon Lits on Intercities in the Netherlands but those have been gone for at least 20 years now.
8:40 When it was Fyra, I took a trip with my late wife. She was wheelchair bound. It looks like you had either the exact same train as we had and the toilet is still not fixed or they didn't adress the issues to begin with and all the problems it had are still there. (things not working, doors not shutting correctly, etc). Still cleaner than the toilet in a Dutch train though.
8:37 As far as I know it has only run service in the Netherlands, Belgium didn't even try after seeing the Dutch results. (was Luxembourg part in this? if not it is not BeNeLux, just the "the Low Countries" :P
Seats: I don't know if it are the same seats with new coverings but if so I am sure you will agree that although ok, they are not significantly better than those in say the VIRM, DDM or even Koplopers of NS
I take a six hour commuter train ride with 2 transfers over ever stepping in that death trap again. There is not much I hate, but I hate that train with a passion.
The mistake is that NS did not care how to drive it. Its Italian equivalent drives without any problems for 2 decades. The problem is the big media coverage with lots of false flags. january 2012 during a snow storm the drivers followed instructions and set all weather alarm systems of. the train has specs about max 60 or 80 km/h in such conditions. Nothing rare in Europe. The Dutch drivers hold on the time table and brought agianst all instructions and alarmsystems the speed up to 250 km/h.. Result that famous lose of ceiling plates at the Dutch Belgium border. Its got giant attention in poltics, media and at the court. The courtcase made it clear. It was not the train. So suggestion this is the biggest train failure shows you did not notice much of at least the court case (Get there the truth counts only the truth and not what people wish to tell)
So it seems that you're proving the point that these trains were fragile and not ready for operations in Dutch weather.
@@Chrisz0rrr0 No its not the train. its not even the weather. As the weather conditions ini january 2012 were undutch. also conditions that appeals allover europe. Get clear its meant to be an off shell product. The Italian original had and have an excellent track record in the Alps. As The Dutch NS management had and have a terrible track record in buy trains and ovemodify these. Before the V250 was the SLT series. Trains also off shell and that much modified it turns out not to run in cold conditions . Yet its the succedor running more problems,, delays as the V250... Its manavement, culture. As said How on earth could it be; all ove europe bad weather. all kinds of trains running at low speed limits. due to snow storms. like 80 kmh. Where the Dutch run a brand new V259 with 250 to do what Dutch loves. Keep the time table. The train instructions manual gives the reality. : a giant risk on ice forming.. at the bottom. The modified Dutch instructions: keep the time table. put of the alarmsystem of the train , signlling 60 or 80 km h for the conditions. Yet go to the alps, see some late 90s high speeds set running on the Brenner pass.. indeed. other front; but the off shell sample with an excellent trackrecord . So no its not the weather , its not the train. Its the NS management and cullutre
Finally someone know what about in the bunch of worthless comments which I have read, the main reason was "Political" as the france competitors where not happy and they have partecipated on plotting against. Anyway, I'm sure they went to a revamping by Hitachi to get new inverters and drives to make it more reliable and they are not being scrapped.
And one thing is also clear to demonstrate it, Hitachi brough them because they know the value, Hitachi and japanese are not foul.
Doubt that its fully on NS and them not knowing how to drive it. It also took Trenitalia 2 years to fix the train afterwards after buying them. Ansoldo clearly delivered a unfished product and NS rejected it.
@@Simon-Andersen I mean, excluding every safety feature and ignoring three emergency braking warnings while doing 250 km/h under heavy snow doesn't seem that great of an idea, does it? It's all written into Mott MacDonald's report.
DSB got scammed by Ansaldo Breada years ago
Hello Simon,
nice and interesting video about the trains and the train stations!
I have one request: Please don't talk so fast and don't rattle your text; it's hard to understand, because it's a single sound mush! Speak more slowly and accentuate the sentences more so that people can understand them. And please try to pronounce the Italian names and terms as they are in Italian, instead of droneing on about them incorrectly in English. Every news anchor does it that way and you want, that people enjoy watching your videos... I'm looking forward to hearing how you pronounce the lyrics in your next videos, so that it's a pleasure to listen to you... Best regards
10:36 Not the ETR700.
Milano Centrale. Legacy of Mussolini era...
I've ridden these trains between Milan and Venice often over the last six months. Thay are not that bad to ride in and TrenItalia was wise to get these at a rock bottom price. Your clickbait has been duly noted.
I don't see how this is clickbait, the train was in servie for 39!! days with their intented operator because the train was so shit. It took trenitalia more than 2 years from buying to make them usable. If this is not a massive failure of a train idk what is.
Big mistake. Also, why did they want trains that only run 250 on a high speed line? The new ones have also no capacity and are even uglier. They still hold up the real high speed trains of ICE and Eurostar too. Its one big joke, all they had to do is buy some real high speed trains, make Amsterdam South the high speed station as it connects central station by metro, and clear the schiphol/central station corridor of any high speed trains/ intercities and only run sprinters on there to serve the airport. They should have bought the old eurostars that got sold off years ago instead of new unknown trains.
The same compny that build the IC4 for DSB!! Italians an train building, what a waste of time!!
This sounds quite a racist comment, sir.
2:17 You're being unfair :( McDonald's has it's position in a train station and has a right to be there. Do you know the "Mercato Centrale" in the north-west part of the station? There's plenty of Italian haute cuisine and it's a really nice and fancy place :)
He probably get some "tips" to sell as "Finest Italian Cusine" by then showing only junk food producer McDonalds!! what an incompetent about Italian cusine has to talk about it!
Think you are looking a bit much into my comment. Its just a bt of danish dry humor :-)
Our local commuter trains are faster and more appealing!
In Italia funziona... Forse non sapevano usarlo? 😂😂
Glad we got rid of those horrible trains
They seem to run fine in Italy...
Maybe because they rebuuld the whole train.
When running in the netherlands they literally fell apart like doors outside but also panels at the bottom. Electric kabels were horrible and dangerous.
And they are not running fine in Italy.
The’re still dealing eith problems and delays
@@jarlpols7907 Don't tell lies, these trains have been running on Italian routes for 10 years and the problems have been minimal! avoid speaking idly
Well they have been sold in 2017 so it can’t be that there driving for 10 years.
And what i said, they almost rebuilt everything.
There are delays and there are software problems, as well noise complains.
Those are just facts.
As well that they aren’t wheelchair accessible for nowadays standards.
But sure, keep on believing it was and is a great train.
@@jarlpols7907 Italy has loading devices for wheelchairs in the station. No need for the train to be on level
I think the Dutch railways are governed by incompetents, even the last intercity trains according to them had problems and their delivery was delayed for years, this time the problem was Alstom's. every time they buy new trains they find problems, the only ones in Europe!
Yes, NS is to blame partly for this drama. But... your last sentence is bs. Never heard of the troublesome Hitachi trains in the UK, DB's Baureihe 102 and it's trainsets, DB's/DSB's new ICLtrainsets, AMTRAK's new Acela fleet. To name just a few.
I don't think you know a lot about the Dutch railways or the procedures surrounding them. The Fyra trains had major technical faults, and the Belgians were the first to revoke their ability to run on the rail network, followed by a full grounding of the fleet in both The Netherlands and Belgirum. The new intercities have issues in delivery speed and welding quality, because Alstom has been having supply line issues in their factories in Poland.
AnsaldoBreda delivering faulty trains and bad engineering, and Alstom having supply line issues has nothing to do with the Dutch railways. The Dutch railways (and rail infrastructure in The Netherlands) also have a pretty high standard for safety and efficacy requirements, so maybe the problem is that the Italian railways are just too relaxed? Recent accidents seem to show that...
Hence, why the Dutch not build their own perfect trains to match their requirements? Is it because they are unable to engineering a train? or I do missing something here!
nice vid but pls stop with the clickbait negative titles
how is it clickbait?
It was a fiasco, right ?!
@@2ndplace1 Look at all the thumbnails and see for yourself
Honestly it was a fiasco, but I'm the Dutch Belgian project pre rebuilding by FS
Of all my videos, i think this is probably the most accurate one haha
It’s quite an ugly looking train
Seriously! It's like they tried their absolute hardest to make the train's appearance as offensive as possible
U really fell off 1 comment
I sent an Invite to your Instagram channel.
AWFUL EUROPEAN TRAINS WITH NO ROTATING SEATS ❗
ALL ASIAN HIGH SPEED TRAINS HAVE THIS BASIC FEATURE ❗
I'm not really bothered by it tbh
Agree. Rotating seat is almost a common thing on Asian trains, but somehow this feature is almost nonexistent in European trains.
Absolutely irrelevant, no one on Europe has that feature
But our trains run in Europe and yours in Asia, wouldn't want to trade...