Hey, that's a relief: I don't have any of those characters. I think... On another note: your videos are just you talking. I like that. I note that here as I had just watched another writer's videos who I really like -- she's personable and knowledgeable -- but the video that should just have her talking is always edited within a hair of its life, constant cutaways to memes and puns and what have you. It gets overwhelming and distracting all at once. I much prefer just watching and listening to someone talk -- so thanks for that. And I did not miss your cat as mine did not stop yowling the whole time.
I feel like Legolas in The Lord of the Rings is kind of the "center of the world" type of character, where the laws of physics and common sense will warp to make him always look cool and awesome. But the author is smart enough to keep him away from the central plot, so that can actually have impact and weight, and then kind of limit this reality-bending influence to just things that Legolas is actively trying to do. Yes, I'm mainly talking about Legolas in the movies because I dunno if it's the same in the books.
Thanks. I enjoyed your video and profited from it. My developmental editor for my first novel especially helped me overcome the one note character. Since my writing focuses on theological or philosophical issues, the danger is that they become mere vehicles for ideas, more like an allegory than a novel. I do enjoy good allegories, but they aren't really novels. Thanks again and thanks for the dry and self-deprecating humor. I look forward to seeing the cat!
Great list! This is my personal Top 5 Most Hated Characters: 1. The Dream Lizard Enough said. 2. Mister No-Pants It's good for a laugh or two, but eventually it gets unsettling. Why is no one asking where his pants went? And why is he mentioned as 'capering' in the background of every scene, despite having no dialogue and no connection to the plot? 3. Steve I think I speak for everyone when I say NO ONE LIKES YOU, STEVE. Please die already. 4. My Actual Dad Don't get me wrong, I respect him and do my best to honor him in all things. But he is always watching and always judging. Even as I read of him, he in turn reads of me. His gaze is like white flame, searing away the lies and idle vanity that I have hidden myself behind, revealing my true evil and unworthiness. 5. The Magician ??? I don't remember writing this.
Great video! I think I've seen the one-note and walking encyclopedia characters the most in stories I've read and it really drains the life out of the narrative. Both characters block the growth of the others because they leave nothing to be solved.
One-note characters can work if they have very sparse and limited appearances. The more they appear, the worse they get. But that's general character writing economy, in that the more a character appear, the rounder they have to be to work for the readers. The dead-weight characters that aren't love interests are usually children dragged along. That can be less grating, since they're often not expected to be able to do much. However, they should have some purpose; an emotional one often works well, since that doesn't require much practical ability. Exposition characters are usually best to just delete and spread around the other characters. Have all characters have their own knowledge that's useful in different situations. Also, if you have exposition through characters, have some of that knowledge be wrong. The last one is the definition of a Mary Sue. What it actually means. Best Mary Sue is found in the webcomic Ensign Sue Must Die. But as usual, that's because she's like that on purpose, not because the creator isn't that good.
I learnt a while ago that you need both Round and Flat Characters in a novel. You cannot have every single of your characters be Round Characters, otherwise your book will be too unnecessarily bloated. Flat characters are needed to help bolster and flesh out the Round characters. The main Protagonist being the obvious example of a Round character, while, with lack of a better term, the novel equivalent of a NPC character from an RPG video game, the one that gives you a fetch quest to complete, being an example of a Flat character.
i think the theme can be used to round out flat characters, like imagine a whole culture of slave owners or peasents etc as the plot develops they can show us their personal thougts and beliefs in the story if you wanna write them that way
I think the main thing you can do for minor characters to not feel flat is to add motivation. Something that pushes them in a different direction than the plot, and preferably not straight against it, but sideways. Maybe they're just tired and want to get things done, or they're nitpicky because they're peculiar about procedures, or some other minor thing that adds a little bit of character.
@@AnotherDuck I am lazy and that sounds like too much work. I rather just borrow Elder Scrolls: Skyrim NPC characters and put them into my book instead, essentially putting in a bunch of fetch quests. I did this in the first draft of my novel
I think one thing you can do, if it's a supporting character, is make your flat supporting character reference or imply that they used to be a round character in the past and had already gone through their own trials and adventures before; and now they are flat because they are at the end of their own adventure and now helping others with theirs.
@@lambchaikies OR, I could just do what I said above. After all, that sounds like it requires much effort, and I only care about my darling main character, and making her the centre of the entire setting. The NPC characters only exist as props to propell the main character's story
A big problem with the exposition encyclopedia character, the know-it-all character, is that it also requires a know-nothing character. For every Spock character that gives a 3-minute treatise on the history of the Federation-Romulan war, there needs to be an Ensign who needs this treatise, because apparently he's never heard of the Romulans. I think it's better to have an exposition from the narrator (or the Captain's log) then contrive both those characters.
I had a character that was the center of the world. He was the king and protagonist, and people were lawfully obliged to tell him his shit smelled like roses. He has an arc, for sure, between the choice to be a benign king or a tyrant, and managed to get throw.
I'm probably stating the obvious but there is the difference between a character being the center of the novel world because the author wills it and having people obliging them for unknown reasons, and what you describe, which is a character making everything about themselves and having the power to do so, and people doing so for explained, believable reasons, and likely in lip service only.
So I think my favorite fix to an exposition dump I've ever seen was "...it didn't work and I don't know why"(in this case it was also the author explaining why the character didn't do the really obvious thing that would negate the need for the rest of the plot). I think there is a point where once the audience has the basic nut's and bolts of your magic/tech world building it's OK to skip the exposition and just have a character say "shit man, math and magical pixie dust... I don't know".
The dead weight character is one I sort of have. I thought about completely cutting her but someone has to die and I think its important to keep the other person alive because hes important for the rest... But I think I didn't give the other girl enough personality or strengths yet. thanks! You probably just saved a character! It wouldn't have made a huge difference but still
If you've got deadweight that you feel you still 'need,' then try to add some characteristics to them that call back to your story's themes. Got a story that involves loss? The deadweight could be a proxy familial figure, through either their deed or through sheer projection of another character. Got a story about how people manipulate each other and stab their rivals in the make? The unassuming dead weight, who always just so *happens* to exist at the right place at the right time, might have the markings of a lovely twist antagonist (whether major or minor). Got a story about the dangers of the rashness/escalation of violent conflict? The deadweight could be the one to instigate a tragic downfall by insisting upon a seemingly necessary but rushed and poorly thought out course of action (just try not to proceed this with, "come on, what's the worst that could happen?")
Not necessarily books, but for me, the angsty teen who hates everyone, especially their new step-parebt who is really nice to them. They are usually always like "down with capitalism " or some crap. I see them a lot in horror movies. They are annoying, and always try to be edgy
Weirdly I have two characters in my novel that are Mary-Sue-Gary-Stu and are at the same time, Planet Of Hats xD I've made them work though as I barely use their full strength and often separate them in the journey of the story.
So in essence, every character must be an individual? That requires layer upon layer of development. Sigh. And I thought my novel was finished. Back to the drawing board. And for you young writers, Back to the Drawing Board was an common expression of the late 1950s and early 1960s Pre- John Glenn. that sprang from the many early failures of the US Space Program Use it to add verisimilitude to period pieces
I guess it depends on how you mean 'character'. This is really only for the main ensemble. If a running gag is the local coffee shop always gets a patron's name wrong, then one of those two people needs to show a progression. The other can just be a plot device.
Is Les Miserables' Inspector Javert a one-note character? Is he one of the rare ones that works? (I have a character in my new novel loosely based on him.)
For the One Note Character, I think of Lope de Vega in Ruled Britannia. He monologues so repetitively about the specifically passionate and doomed way in which he is a womanizer that I still want to scream and I haven't read that book in more than a decade. (And it was an otherwise very good book!)
Mary sues including the perfect manly man who’s the manliest man who ever manned and I the strongest and most wonderful person is just boring. The chosen one trope is tired, but remains popular because you can justify it because if someone else was the chosen one the story would be about them, so it’s chicken or the egg. Also if you have Garry the rapey clown as a central character I probably wouldn’t like the book. I disagree with someone not changing and growing as a person over the course of a book. Read a thriller or spy or mystery or action novel you don’t need character development, the enjoyment is the situation and actions and outcome, your main character can be a CIA assassin at the beginning middle and end, Sherlock Holmes doesn’t grow as a person over the course of a novel, John Rain or Jack Reacher don’t need to become in touch with their feelings by the end of the book etc.
Okay, admitting everything here, but my “Center of the World Character” was not my original intention. Through my research, this character was added and since he is such a brilliant contagonist to the main character, I bolstered his lifestyle and influence so as to more conflict. Is that okay? 😰
Antagonistic characters can often be more extreme. They can be allowed to take more room, since they're often driving the conflict. Just make sure people still root for your MC.
1. Great advice! I'll run my chars through the list and kill any ruinous darlings. 2. What part of Canada are you from? 3. They're right about the bookcase.
Some good thoughts here. I have seen the opposite problem of the planet of hats character, though, where an author ALWAYS has his alien or other culture character be the opposite of their home culture, and it feels just as forced and lazy as having them just be their culture.
Carl, that bookcase is leaning. Please, have it fixed. I like you, wouldn't want to see you get hurt.
Leaning bookshelf=suspense tool to watch until the end and return to see if it's still leaning... 😰
Perhaps it's on purpose? Probably
@@francinem4944 chekhov's bookshelf
looooooooooooooool
My guess is its related to cat sabotage... He may be in the process of trying to wrest control of the channel from me.
I wouldn't say you're worthless; I'd say you're priceless.
"you're a person of... indeterminable worth."
The One Note character: "Hodor! Hodor! Hodor! Hodor!"
Hey, that's a relief: I don't have any of those characters.
I think...
On another note: your videos are just you talking. I like that. I note that here as I had just watched another writer's videos who I really like -- she's personable and knowledgeable -- but the video that should just have her talking is always edited within a hair of its life, constant cutaways to memes and puns and what have you.
It gets overwhelming and distracting all at once.
I much prefer just watching and listening to someone talk -- so thanks for that.
And I did not miss your cat as mine did not stop yowling the whole time.
Thanks, I'd say it was a conscious creative decision as far as video style, but the truth is I just have no idea how to edit all that fancy stuff.
All these together sound like there could be a lot of humour if they all form a 5 way tag team.
But it could also be awful.
Could be a DnD campaign.
@@NouraZahle I wonder which one would be in which role and what quest to give them.
I feel like Legolas in The Lord of the Rings is kind of the "center of the world" type of character, where the laws of physics and common sense will warp to make him always look cool and awesome. But the author is smart enough to keep him away from the central plot, so that can actually have impact and weight, and then kind of limit this reality-bending influence to just things that Legolas is actively trying to do. Yes, I'm mainly talking about Legolas in the movies because I dunno if it's the same in the books.
1:37 there is only one exception to this rule. And his name is Inigo Montoya
Thanks. I enjoyed your video and profited from it. My developmental editor for my first novel especially helped me overcome the one note character. Since my writing focuses on theological or philosophical issues, the danger is that they become mere vehicles for ideas, more like an allegory than a novel. I do enjoy good allegories, but they aren't really novels. Thanks again and thanks for the dry and self-deprecating humor. I look forward to seeing the cat!
Great list!
This is my personal Top 5 Most Hated Characters:
1. The Dream Lizard
Enough said.
2. Mister No-Pants
It's good for a laugh or two, but eventually it gets unsettling. Why is no one asking where his pants went? And why is he mentioned as 'capering' in the background of every scene, despite having no dialogue and no connection to the plot?
3. Steve
I think I speak for everyone when I say NO ONE LIKES YOU, STEVE. Please die already.
4. My Actual Dad
Don't get me wrong, I respect him and do my best to honor him in all things. But he is always watching and always judging. Even as I read of him, he in turn reads of me. His gaze is like white flame, searing away the lies and idle vanity that I have hidden myself behind, revealing my true evil and unworthiness.
5. The Magician
??? I don't remember writing this.
Who the heck is "the Dream Lizard"?????? I am intrigued now.
Very informative, thank you.
Working on it, I just ate custard instead of vitamins and fiber
Gary-Stu!!!! 🤣 love your vids Carl ❤ great insights
Thanks!
Great video! I think I've seen the one-note and walking encyclopedia characters the most in stories I've read and it really drains the life out of the narrative. Both characters block the growth of the others because they leave nothing to be solved.
you convinced me to subscribe with your discussion on cost and worth. :)
One-note characters can work if they have very sparse and limited appearances. The more they appear, the worse they get. But that's general character writing economy, in that the more a character appear, the rounder they have to be to work for the readers.
The dead-weight characters that aren't love interests are usually children dragged along. That can be less grating, since they're often not expected to be able to do much. However, they should have some purpose; an emotional one often works well, since that doesn't require much practical ability.
Exposition characters are usually best to just delete and spread around the other characters. Have all characters have their own knowledge that's useful in different situations. Also, if you have exposition through characters, have some of that knowledge be wrong.
The last one is the definition of a Mary Sue. What it actually means. Best Mary Sue is found in the webcomic Ensign Sue Must Die. But as usual, that's because she's like that on purpose, not because the creator isn't that good.
I learnt a while ago that you need both Round and Flat Characters in a novel. You cannot have every single of your characters be Round Characters, otherwise your book will be too unnecessarily bloated. Flat characters are needed to help bolster and flesh out the Round characters. The main Protagonist being the obvious example of a Round character, while, with lack of a better term, the novel equivalent of a NPC character from an RPG video game, the one that gives you a fetch quest to complete, being an example of a Flat character.
i think the theme can be used to round out flat characters, like imagine a whole culture of slave owners or peasents etc as the plot develops they can show us their personal thougts and beliefs in the story if you wanna write them that way
I think the main thing you can do for minor characters to not feel flat is to add motivation. Something that pushes them in a different direction than the plot, and preferably not straight against it, but sideways. Maybe they're just tired and want to get things done, or they're nitpicky because they're peculiar about procedures, or some other minor thing that adds a little bit of character.
@@AnotherDuck I am lazy and that sounds like too much work. I rather just borrow Elder Scrolls: Skyrim NPC characters and put them into my book instead, essentially putting in a bunch of fetch quests.
I did this in the first draft of my novel
I think one thing you can do, if it's a supporting character, is make your flat supporting character reference or imply that they used to be a round character in the past and had already gone through their own trials and adventures before; and now they are flat because they are at the end of their own adventure and now helping others with theirs.
@@lambchaikies OR, I could just do what I said above. After all, that sounds like it requires much effort, and I only care about my darling main character, and making her the centre of the entire setting. The NPC characters only exist as props to propell the main character's story
A big problem with the exposition encyclopedia character, the know-it-all character, is that it also requires a know-nothing character. For every Spock character that gives a 3-minute treatise on the history of the Federation-Romulan war, there needs to be an Ensign who needs this treatise, because apparently he's never heard of the Romulans.
I think it's better to have an exposition from the narrator (or the Captain's log) then contrive both those characters.
I wonder. What would be your thoughts on Senku, the super Exposition Encyclopedia MC from Dr Stone?
6:57 Hey this sounds like the character Jonathan in the Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode “Superstar” lol
The exposition encyclopedia.... is either a writer who knows random shit because they researched it- or has adhd. (Im both 😭 😭)
I was doing great and paying attention until the cat got up by the window and started messing around... 😸
I had a character that was the center of the world. He was the king and protagonist, and people were lawfully obliged to tell him his shit smelled like roses. He has an arc, for sure, between the choice to be a benign king or a tyrant, and managed to get throw.
I'm probably stating the obvious but there is the difference between a character being the center of the novel world because the author wills it and having people obliging them for unknown reasons, and what you describe, which is a character making everything about themselves and having the power to do so, and people doing so for explained, believable reasons, and likely in lip service only.
I only clicked on this for the kitty in the thumbnail. (I did listen to the whole thing.) (But I was sad not to see the cat)
So I think my favorite fix to an exposition dump I've ever seen was "...it didn't work and I don't know why"(in this case it was also the author explaining why the character didn't do the really obvious thing that would negate the need for the rest of the plot). I think there is a point where once the audience has the basic nut's and bolts of your magic/tech world building it's OK to skip the exposition and just have a character say "shit man, math and magical pixie dust... I don't know".
The dead weight character is one I sort of have. I thought about completely cutting her but someone has to die and I think its important to keep the other person alive because hes important for the rest... But I think I didn't give the other girl enough personality or strengths yet. thanks! You probably just saved a character! It wouldn't have made a huge difference but still
I have what might be a deadweight character who serves as the MC's love interest. She does go through a you-must-pick-a-side moment, so maybe not.
If you've got deadweight that you feel you still 'need,' then try to add some characteristics to them that call back to your story's themes.
Got a story that involves loss? The deadweight could be a proxy familial figure, through either their deed or through sheer projection of another character.
Got a story about how people manipulate each other and stab their rivals in the make? The unassuming dead weight, who always just so *happens* to exist at the right place at the right time, might have the markings of a lovely twist antagonist (whether major or minor).
Got a story about the dangers of the rashness/escalation of violent conflict? The deadweight could be the one to instigate a tragic downfall by insisting upon a seemingly necessary but rushed and poorly thought out course of action (just try not to proceed this with, "come on, what's the worst that could happen?")
Not necessarily books, but for me, the angsty teen who hates everyone, especially their new step-parebt who is really nice to them. They are usually always like "down with capitalism " or some crap. I see them a lot in horror movies. They are annoying, and always try to be edgy
Weirdly I have two characters in my novel that are Mary-Sue-Gary-Stu and are at the same time, Planet Of Hats xD
I've made them work though as I barely use their full strength and often separate them in the journey of the story.
Why yes, I do prefer alliteration. Subscription unlocked.
So in essence, every character must be an individual? That requires layer upon layer of development. Sigh. And I thought my novel was finished. Back to the drawing board. And for you young writers, Back to the Drawing Board was an common expression of the late 1950s and early 1960s
Pre- John Glenn. that sprang from the many early failures of the US Space Program Use it to add verisimilitude to period pieces
I guess it depends on how you mean 'character'. This is really only for the main ensemble. If a running gag is the local coffee shop always gets a patron's name wrong, then one of those two people needs to show a progression. The other can just be a plot device.
Only the main core cast of characters
Is Les Miserables' Inspector Javert a one-note character? Is he one of the rare ones that works? (I have a character in my new novel loosely based on him.)
For the One Note Character, I think of Lope de Vega in Ruled Britannia. He monologues so repetitively about the specifically passionate and doomed way in which he is a womanizer that I still want to scream and I haven't read that book in more than a decade. (And it was an otherwise very good book!)
7:17 No, no, that's genius. Make it say they do all that and then show how much are they lying in one part and how true it is on the other
Mary sues including the perfect manly man who’s the manliest man who ever manned and I the strongest and most wonderful person is just boring.
The chosen one trope is tired, but remains popular because you can justify it because if someone else was the chosen one the story would be about them, so it’s chicken or the egg.
Also if you have Garry the rapey clown as a central character I probably wouldn’t like the book.
I disagree with someone not changing and growing as a person over the course of a book. Read a thriller or spy or mystery or action novel you don’t need character development, the enjoyment is the situation and actions and outcome, your main character can be a CIA assassin at the beginning middle and end, Sherlock Holmes doesn’t grow as a person over the course of a novel, John Rain or Jack Reacher don’t need to become in touch with their feelings by the end of the book etc.
11:00
KAKINE TEITOKU
please tell us why the character in Rebecca works.
Okay, admitting everything here, but my “Center of the World Character” was not my original intention. Through my research, this character was added and since he is such a brilliant contagonist to the main character, I bolstered his lifestyle and influence so as to more conflict. Is that okay? 😰
Antagonistic characters can often be more extreme. They can be allowed to take more room, since they're often driving the conflict. Just make sure people still root for your MC.
Erm.. I this a "C++" book on the shelf behind you?
1. Great advice! I'll run my chars through the list and kill any ruinous darlings. 2. What part of Canada are you from? 3. They're right about the bookcase.
Silly, characters cant ruin you story, thats the author
Grays Anatomy!?
Some good thoughts here. I have seen the opposite problem of the planet of hats character, though, where an author ALWAYS has his alien or other culture character be the opposite of their home culture, and it feels just as forced and lazy as having them just be their culture.
Not WORTHless but PRICEless ✨