Life gets in the way.. you're voice is so distinct. I walked by you a couple times in separate rooms at the gnrs every time I heard your voice I stopped and told the wife hey I watch that dude on UA-cam.
I admire people working and taking the time to explain these young super-bikes, how fantastic! Thanks for sharing Mike! Hope to see you on the road some day!!
Thank you Mike. You are a bank of knowledge. I've been tinkering with shovels about thirty years, and still learning a lot , thanks to you. From your Georgia friend, " Dawg!!!"
Hello and thank you for putting up these informative videos. Just watched this one tonight, re-did my Panhead clutch again after changing the transmission sprocket a couple of weeks ago. I also have the Barnett aluminum clutch friction discs in mine, very good product, I've been using them in my Pan since 1998. I noticed that the friction discs were not making full contact against the steel plates by the wear pattern on the friction material. So since I was not in a hurry I set up my 1/2 inch thick glass panel for flat sanding with 220 grit sandpaper and rubbed each friction disc on that until I had a perfectly flat contact surface. It made a real difference in the feel of the clutch even using my foot(suicide) clutch and jockey shift. Now it is in contact or not in contact, none of the grabbing or incomplete release I had before which makes shifting much nicer. I also use a Zodiac Tamer Kit that holds the clutch basket from moving out, I run a belt drive also.
Mike , thanks so much for your expert instructions they have helped me to become a much better wrench and my old shovelhead thanks you too. Your awesome bruh ! I have an aunt who lives in Riverside cali
Thank you Mike for another great workshop night love watching your videos if I have a problem I can always go to your videos to teach me how to god bless you
Hi Mike, I asked you about a clutch issue I was having and wanted to let you know that I purchased a new clutch and went back to the stock circulating system. I built this bike, a 1978 fxe 74 ci over the winter and your videos were there when I got in a bind and didn't quite understand something . Thank you for your response and your very well done videos!
Aloha Mike... I have been building British bikes for a long time and just picked up a 49 Fl which is my first HD. Some things about the bike were not as designed so been putting it back to stock configuration. Of course I bought a manual but it almost isn't needed now that I found you. I really enjoy your videos!!! Keep on keeping on....
Thank you for sharing your expertise Mike. I was going to post about my grabbing clutch problem but did not want to duplicate a previous poster so I srcoled thru the clutch posts and discovered the post from Dan McCarthy _ same issues. My 2" open primary conversion to my '73 shovel would not disengage the mainshaft. It drove me nuts because I had already done two 1.5" belt conversions successfully. Your advice for drilling out the clutch plates with 25/64 bit did the TRICK! I am so freakin happy with my recent bobber build.
Great video as always Mike. As far as plate brands go a little over twenty years ago I put a set of Barnett plates into the clutch of my Shovelhead. I think once in that time I cleaned them like you are doing here after a carb tweak added a few HP and it started slipping. Haven't had to monkey with them since. I don't know if Barnett is still around but this video made me think of them. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge. I live in a rural area in Southern Virginia and the last old timer around these parts that really knew these old bikes passed away a few years ago. Your videos are very helpful to those of us all alone in the wilds trying to keep our old iron healthy.
Thank you. We used to have to figure it out every time we added more horsepower. Tighten those springs some more. Now, if you didn't have one before, you'd be thankful for a foot clutch now. However, Barnett is very much still in business and still family owned. Their factory is in Ventura California. Still making great stuff.
Had a 65 panhead back in the 70s that had a problem with the clutch plates becoming soaked with oil . Apparently the chain oil wasn't getting suckrd back into the engine . 🤔 Love your videos thankyou 👍
Hi Mike, I just had apart a '68 FLH as it had some starter issues. Had a mix match of parts; one being the wrong year clutch shell ('70 and +). I put in a '65 - '69 clutch shell and reused the clutch plates after inspecting them and cleaning them. I adjusted springs first to 1-1/32" as per manual without having the pushrod adjusting screw tight. Next I set the clutch arm to about 1/2" from the starter, then backed off the adjusting screw 1'8" and tightened the locknut. Then adjusted the clutch cable/hand lever to have approx. 1/4" play. I pulled the hand lever in several times and noted that the pressure plate was likely coming out 1/4" or maybe 5/16". I sat on the bike then and put it in gear and pushed it forward with the hand lever fully in (to disengage the clutch) and it was dragging considerably. The clutch shell looked in good shape and the studs on the clutch hub I sanded and were in good shape, so what could be wrong to not allow the clutch to fully disengage? Is it likely to be that I need to drill out the ten holes per plate on the friction discs ab extra 1/32"?? Any thoughts would be appreciated and I know you enjoy making clutches work well so thought I would ask. Thank you. Darren.
Please realize, although I try, can't see it from here. First, are the plates separating evenly all the way around. Sometimes the springs don't always have even tension and the three studs may need to be tightened unequal amounts in order to compensate. If the plates are not sliding well because the holes the studs (fingers) pass through are not smooth, drill oversize 1/64th, not 1/32nd. You don't need a full 1/4" in that lever. An eighth or less may be the answer. A lot of people used to figure a nickle"s thickness where the lever touches the perch. Do not get a non-mousetrap unit confused with a mousetrap. I'm assuming no mousetrap. Last mousetrap was 1967. But I have installed them on later models.
@@pacificmike9501 Thank you Mike for your thoughts; I know you are a busy guy. I guess I should secure the handlever in the fully closed position and then measure the distance between the release disc and clutch friction disc to see if it is opening equally and if not adjust? No mousetrap Mike and BTW I am using the correct springs for '68 and up and I am using a 5 stud hub. Thanks again.
@@ironearl69 I could be wrong but I was always taught those 5 stud clutch hubs were more for drag racing and the three stud clutch hubs were better for normal use for disengagement purposes. I personally think you can't diagnose if it is disengaging right unless you start it and ride it.
putting the extra steel in by the hub basket is the best idea. I ruined a brand new hub basket recently. but it was repairable by putting in the steel.
Did putting the extra steel up against the basket change the way it grabbed? I've never heard of this before, and am getting ready to install new BDL drive
I ran the Barnett clutch Assy. and Phase 3 open primary combo on my stock 80” shovel. Your triggering a little trip down memory lane with your vids Pacific Mike :).
Pacific Mike I mean to say that, the engine was the stock 80” first one, I bought it from the factory 1980. I had already gotten a 57 pan head frame, and a couple of damaged wide glides that fixed up into a good one. I like the new efi harleys , they are Bullit proof. Maybe to good, could be part of California Harley economic woes. Got the new Aircraft spec brakes that were coming out. Yeah nostalgia is a big part of my everyday world these days😂
Baby Doll is absolutely beautiful thank you I was wondering what was in the bottle and couple minutes you answered what I had just thought I had to laugh...Thank You Pacific Mike M love & Respect to you....John E.
Great video Mike! A little bit long, but what a pleasure to watch and listen 😎 A little thing I do is I drill the clutch plate holes just a bit bigger, so they slide easier to come free. It make more noise, but what a fun to hear. Cheers from France
Thank you. I do the same thing, depending on the size of the holes. Most clutch plates are stamped out and the tooling gets old. The holes aren't round as they should be. When I get that, I drill them out 1/64th over the intended 3/8". Don't go to big, and, no noise.
great lessons Mike, I own shovelheads, a 72 fx, a 78 flh and a 82 flh. My question is keep the chain primary or go belt drive. I like to keep stuff stock for higher values, thanks
Great video! Somehow I missed the part showing all the lesser informed how to load the springs on the pressure plate with the adjusting screw and washer. Some people think their springs are going flying on removal. Maybe it was in a previous video. Cheers
I have shown it, but, lay the releasing disc smooth side down and put the springs in place, all ten in a circle with their respective holes in alignment with each spring. Now, lay the pressure plate on top of the springs. Depending on the clutch hub you're using, there will be either three or five of those holes shaped for adjusting nuts. Don't worry about them, they will register when installing the releasing disc onto the hub, later. Now lay a large flat washer or a Shovelhead valve spring retainer over the large center hole in the pressure plate. The washer should have a 3/8 hole in the center or size it down with a small washer over the big one. Now, install the center adjusting screw and put the locknut on it. Tighten the lock nut some and the whole thing is in one piece. After you install it with all of the three or five stud adjusting nuts, you can remove the center locknut and take out the large flatwasher.
Great video. Encouraged to pull mine apart as the bike does not want to down shit from third. The plates are a bit grooved and one plate has some rust as though it was stuck to the fiber disk. So I guess the whole system should be replaced?? Even the basket has some grooving and a bit of oil. I wish pictures could be posted!! Maybe I'll clean it up and see how it performs, but the grooving is not going away without a lathe.............
Sometimes they clean up and work fine. Somes times they don't. New stuff is always cool, but not always necessary or economically feasible. Look it over. Get a feel for how it works. This is the learning proccess.
Thanks, I’ll clean it up and give it a shot. One conundrum I have is that my case is stamped as a 1940 WLA. That’s a very unusual and unlikely model. I’m thinking it’s actually a 1941 up clutch but don’t really know how to confirm that without buying parts….. I see a lot of parts listed for 1941 and up, but not for 1940.
Another great video Mike. By watching your vids I managed to build my 74 fxe from boxes... She's a real eye catcher now. Thanks. If you have a email I can send you pics. Currently I have a strange whinning noise in third... So I'm on the lookout for related vids. Cheers again. J
Thank You. Sorry, I need to figure out the picture thing on the Channel. That "whinining" noise in third gear is probably the "third gear" bushing. It comes from riding around in third gear all the time. Probably spent it's life riding around town. Look it up in your service manual. I said "probably" and a "long distance" diagnosis may not be correct. It's a big job, of course, to pull the trans and rebuild it, but not a lot of money in parts if the gears are all good.
Or a large flatwasher stacked with a small flatwasher, or something from the hardware store. It's fun to be creative. That old valve spring retainer has been used on old cluches for over forty years. Don't tell her there's a cheap replacement for her.
Best move I ever made on my 81 fxs was get rid of stock clutch & compensator. Replaced with BDL pro clutch kit wit sold sprocket & chain. It uses the solid Evo style sealed bearings. Much less vibration & clutch never slips
Mike, I absolutely love the videos. Keep them coming. My 58 Panhead hemorrhages oil. They all do, but yours does not! Please enlighten me. PS the chain Oiler has been capped off
Are you referring to the breather tube coming out of the crankcase into the primary? If os, there's your problem. Look at the service manual and find the screw on the oil pump that controls the amount of oil that comes out of that breather tube. Now, close down that screw (just tighten it until it bottoms). Now, open that beather tube. If it's noot breathing, your engine is building up all kinds of destructive pressure.
Mike great videos!!!! I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the right place but could you make a video on assembly and then adjusting the friction discs in a rocker clutch? Kind of like how you did the mouse trap video only this time with the rocker clutch?
Mike I've watched all of your clutch videos, I haven't seen anything on how to adjust the rocker clutch setup, especially as detailed as the mouse trap video is. Rocker clutch transmission adjustment video would be great.
Hello Micke!!! I guess you like to service your clutch because the look like the 45 rpm acetate disk with all the good music of the good days!!! best regards as always!
Hey Mike, so are you adding a extra steel plate to the stack? Does the metal on metal still engage/grab the same? Just received a new BDL system and don't want to hurt anything. I've never seen this done before
The bottom fiber either engages on the inner surface of the basket itself, or it engages against a steel plate that is protecting the basket. It's a very common old way of doing it. If you let the fiber plate engage with the basket, it tends to wear and gall in there. Next time you take it apart, you might say, "I don't like that," and add a steel plate, or not. No harm, no foul. Just remember, if you add a steel plate, you may have to grind the edges and remove the buffers so it can bottom completely flat in the basket.
Mike my name is John gordon I live in rock falls ill. I own a 1962 flh harley panhead. I have replaced over approximately 2500 dollars in parts and performed extensive amount of work on her. I had to replace the pivot plate on the mousetrap.also replaced the dry clutch package with new parts. I have the clutch lever at one eighth play. I watched your video about the clutch adj. My question is with the mousetrap system is the pressure on the clutch pushrod to the throw out bearing the same as shown on your video
very thorough ,,i need this ,,cant get my 1936el adjusted right,,always engaged wont disengage.. very impressed.. i will start w a steel disc like u did see if that solves my no disengaging issue
There's stuff in there on that. Go to UA-cam. Type in Pacific Mike. When the Homepage comes up, click on the word "videos." There's about 275 videos. Plenty of stuff you're looking for. Look at the videos on my red Panhead (Baby Doll).
Hi Mike, Thank you for all the videos and experience, as you teach from your home garage! also just love it when something doesn't go perfect for you, it makes you more real. OK enough brown nosing! I restored a 1981 Sturgis about 10 yrs ago, and it only has about (11,000 Mi.) clutch and transmission shifted like butter but had a little clutch chatter till warm. Thinking a warped plate I put in a new clutch plates and steel plates this time with anti rattle balls; chatter gone but cant find neutral when running now?? cant seem to dial in the adjustment, followed service manual but without success!!! Haven't had this happen on any other shovels I own; could you do a video on how to adjust properly, my best Jim
I don't have one of those transmissions with the "Astrodome lid." But, if you look in the service manual for the clutch adjustment, you'll see a 13/16" measurement off of the top of the lid, to the clutch release lever. Quite possibly, your issue. Another possible issue would be the fiber plates not sliding easily on the clutch hub "fingers." This happens with a lot of aftermarket plates after their dies have been used a few million times. If such is the case, I drill out the holes in the plates 1/64th of an inch over the original 3/8ths. Then they slide easily.
@@pacificmike9501 Thank you Mike, I didn't check for a reply until just now 9:35 am East coast ( Rhode Island smallest state in the union ) I thought If i received an answer; mite be weeks. I use a small block of wood with Formica on one side 13/16" in between arm and tranny while I start my adjustment on it. I think your advice to drill my be my answer and will try that. I'm a 1951 model (be 71) in a couple of weeks; so probably not a whole lot of tread left on my tires LOL. I truly appreciate what you are doing Mike, Keep it shinny side up!! Jim
Hi Mike, great videos! When adjusting my shovelhead clutch it seems that the freeplay in the clutch arm after adjusting the screw gets taken away when cable adjustment is made. Should I be holding the arm back so the cable doesn't pull it into engagement with the throwout bearing?
I think you have no freeplay up at the hand lever, or you need to lube that clutch cable. Take it loose from the hand lever and run something down inside, then wait and do it again several times. A good cable lube product or even "Break Free."
No. There should be clearance between the adjusting screw and the clutch pushrod. It's asking you for a thorough inspection to see what's hanging it up. It could be the pushrod or the throwout bearing .Time to get in there.
Thanks Mike for taking time to answer me. All the parts were trashed, bearing, pushrod end & adjusting screw tip too. I ordered all new heavy duty stuff. Thanks again.
Mike, sorry to comment on an old video! I've been having a few issues with my clutch and I noticed you have steel/fibre/steel/fibre/steel/fibre. I have an extra fibre at the back. I never really thought much of it until now! may be why my clutch has been acting wild!
Hey Mike, new subscriber here. Love your videos. Can't stop binge watching them! An old shovel owner and rebuilder here, years ago. Twin cam owner now. Learnin' stuff here like the extra steel disc hint. Question: I noticed in this video that you installed the clutch steels still shiny but scuffed the discs. What about scuffing the steels? All the old stories in the old days of guys slightly roughing up clutch steel discs on the side of the road on the concrete when the clutch started to slip...? Thanks again man. Ride safe, Frank
Not all materials are the same. Do what works for you. They will get "polished" in there anyway. Clean is what you need. Clean and dry. Again, what works for you is what you need. Take care.
Hi Mike! Great videos on clutch disassembly and cleaning! The clutch on my '77 Shovelhead wasn't engaging properly, so I removed the primary cover to have a look. Turns out when I work the clutch lever, the left side of the clutch basket moves out, but the right side hardly moves at all. The clutch springs seem to be relatively even, but I'll take measurements and adjust them evening just to be sure. Can you tell me what's causing the uneven movement of the clutch basket? Thanks!
If everything is cleaned and lubed properly, the basket should stay still. Look at all of our stuff on clutches. Just hit the "videos" button. There are several videos on the old dry clutches.
I have an 1980 FLH 4 speed with a wet clutch 5 nuts for adjusting. It looks like the bendix hasn't engaged properly to the gear on the clutch so the teeth's are destroyed. I need to get a new clutch and have been thinking of converting to a belt drive. I'm thinking it will make less noise and there will be one less place oil will come out.. What's your take? Thank you so much for these videos. I watch them and rewatch them all the time 🙏
It's really pretty simple. Take your measurement the same as you would for a thin steel disc. Just allow more in the amount of the depth of the "spring pocked." Use a narrow ruler or caliper and measure the depth of that hole. subtract it from the measurement you would usually use. Then you have it. If the hole is 1/4 " deep and your measurement is supposed to be 1", from the surface of the releasing disc to the pressure plate it should measure 3/4".
@@pacificmike9501 fair enough, I'll stick a caliper in there. I was just feeling lazy. I appreciate the reply! Thanks Mike. I bought this disc a few months ago and never ran it because it felt loose on the fingers and I was concerned about faster wear of the fingers. I ended up buying a second disc, the stock style thin steel crap and ended up warping that thing first time 'racing around' so now back to a sticky clutch at the moment. I'm going to make a switch to the thick aluminum one and hope for some better life!
I've been riding and wrenching on my (chopped) '62FL for forty years and learned something when you started with the steel. Further more, I just replaced a BDL basket because of the friction disc gouging you mention. Question for you, Mike: instead of replacing the basket could I have just dropped a (corner shaved) steel in? Also, would you do me a favor and if you haven't put the outer on yet, or have an old Pan basket lying around measure the depth? Shovels are deeper?
Yes, you could have put a plate i there. But, as you ask, the difference in depth can be from Manufacturer to manufacturer. There are also bunches of manufacturers of clutch plates. The stacks vary in height. I've gone through piles of used stuff to come up with different combinations to suit the applications. I don't know what BDL"s depth is.
@@pacificmike9501 I wasn't asking the BDL depth. I've the old one laying on the back porch. I was asking what stock (Pan) is. That I don't have any longer (it's lost or buried). The thing is, my basket doesn't have room for an extra steel. I suppose I could run a 1/2 disc at the release plate. Or maybe I'm just over thinking it (shrug). And an after note: It just dawned on me you aren't running a stock primary either. Still, if you've a stock one lying around or have the opportunity to measure a customer's I'd be interested in knowing how deep it is. Just because, I guess. Thanks. Yes, they call me "Drift." ☺
Part 2: Since I use the Zodiac Tamer Kit in my Pan 4 speed clutch the clutch basket cannot be removed without first removing the clutch hub nut. Makes it difficult to remove without using an air impact tool and almost impossible to use the correct torque when installing the hub nut. So I made up this tool from an old clutch friction disc and clutch steel using three 1/4 inch bolts to hold them together, make sure you center them. I drilled the holes in the steel and inserted them together into the clutch, centered them and started drilling the holes in the friction disc, finish drilling the holes on the bench. To use it just remove all clutch plates, insert tool into clutch all the way in to the base of the fingers, now the hub and basket are locked together. I run a belt so I made a steel bar to lock the pulleys and once that is in place everything is locked. I was going to attach pictures but can't figure out how, sorry.
Working on my shovelhead clutch . Can of worms. Dry like yours ; belt drive . I have to rev it to get in nuetral . My springs are 5 Barnett and 5 factory springs . So I went back to all factory springs . Now I have to rev to get in neutral and it goes past and to second gear . Frustrated- got it set up as loose as possible and most clutch pull . I seen all of Indian larrys bike have updated clutch hubs . $$$ Well there are several things on market to help clutch basket from wandering. Thanks mike . Making things more better - 😁✊🏻👍👌🙏
Not sure what the problem is. Is the clutch not releasing, or is there a transmission problem? Is the basket loose on the hub? Is the throwout system funtctioning properly?
@@pacificmike9501 yes it opens wide . Dragging I believe. I have the big fix rollers . I have 5 finger hub . 5 finger not good as 3 now I’m told . I have a primo 11mm belt drive with idler . I know tension is right . Idler seems to keep it riding towards inner primary side . 🤔 👍🙏
That's another issue. Shimming the trans to get the mainshaft in the same plane with the motor shaft is what you need. Maybe the idler will require some shimming.
@@pacificmike9501 amen mike - I will investigate. Many thanks . Wife and I got out for a ride ; pi town loop . Dang it was great hearing em v twin’s roar side by side . 😁 autumn in the air - ✊🏻👍👌🙏👋
Great Video, Mike... I have a 1980 Shovelhead FLT (mostly stock)... primary converted to dry belt drive, and my clutch has been 'grabby'... where is catches unexpectedly while slowly release the handle. I completed a full service (using your video)... QUESTION: Do you ever 'lightly grease' the fingers of the clutch basket so the plates 'slide easier'? Thanks.
NO. But I've used a lot of different brands of clutch plates. Usually, they are stamped out. That's fine, after years of using the same tooling, the 3/8" holes for the "fingers" aren't quite nice any more. I go 1/64th" over on all of those ten holes in each plate. I use a drill press. Go slow and don't hurt yourself. The other thing is to make sure those fingers are smooth.
I was baffled as how you were able to have the release plate assembled with the springs already under pressure, until you finally mentioned the shovel head valve retainer . Genius! Thanks for mentioning. I have no idea how that can be reassembled without that? How did Harley suggest this? Thanks for that video. My56PAN
It's the way I was taught in the seventies. It's not hard to assemble off the bike and then put it on. The guys I knew back then were not trained by the factory.
Another great video. On my knucklehead i ran the old pressure plate and some old (maybee original) springs, and that ment that there was'nt the same tension in each spring, so when ever i serviced it, instead of messureing the distance, I had to tightening the spring different each time. I did it aprox and then made sure the ajusting plate went straight out when activated. Pull the clutch severeal times, while slowy rotating the clutchhead (using kickpedal or backwheel). I know i could have bought new springs, but they lasted the 26 year i rode the bike. Greeting from Denmark
Thank you. And, your explanation is great. I tried to show getting the releasing disc to move straight and even in one of our previous videos. This was a "go back and make it quit slipping" video. And I appreciate the fact that parts that are "half worn are still half good."
What measurement are Are you looking to achieve total on the spring adjustment I can never get what the manufacturer says as far as measurements go which is an inch 1 1/32. Great videos
Hi Mike thanks for the video I’m having trouble adjusting my clutch adjusting screw I can turn it in to tighten the clutch but I still can’t get my clutch to function correctly it will not disengage the gears so it always seems like it’s in gear for example if it was started and I open the clutch to release it to bike with jump in stall Any ideas on how I can fix this 1955 Panhead
The point I was trying to make is: These things are subject to many issues. A lot of the parts we're working with are quite old. So, the goal is to make all of these parts function well together. If at first you don't succeed (whatever level of perfection you're going for), go back in and have a little talk with her. Glad you like it. Thank You.
I am getting ready to put my clutch in 1979 shovelhead with all new plate's. I ordered barnett steel plates without the anti rattle balls. Do you think that is a mistake? The number one thing I am looking for is they work good and have long life. I am replacing the original steel factory plates.
It will be great. It may make a sound you do or don't like. Not a mistake. If you're running an open primary, you'll make a sound that makes your friends know it's you. Hey, I hear Joe Surfer goin' through the gears.
Anything can be done. It would be very complicated and there are a couple of different approaches that come to mind. A cable would have to be fabricated. The best way ( in my mind) to do the rod would be to use an early 5 speed trap door on your transmission and fabricate the clutch arm for a proper location. That's a pretty intense, but possible, feat. But, Happy Holidays!
How do you get the oil out of a 1940s three bolt WL transmission? I did not see a drain plug. I’m hoping one doesn’t have to bring it back out of the fill hole.
Hi Mike! As you recommended, I removed the cam cover on my '77 Shovelhead in hopes of draining the oil and gas from the crankcase. Thanks to one of your videos, I made my own cover puller based on your design. Since there's at least four quarts of oil, plus an unknown quantity of fuel in the crankcase, I was expecting a lot of fluid to flow out. That didn't happen. I only got about half a quart of fluid out. Other than tilting the bike, is there something else I need to do to get the fluids out?
Cranking it over will pump it out through the breather hose. If the topend is off, get a hand pump for pumping lubricant into an automotive differential and pump the oil out by hand.
I have a 1980 shovelhead ridgit frame which has been sitting for 5yrs do you have a vid on taking inner primary off to take engine and transmission out greatly appreciated it's time taking bike a part excited and unsure lol thks
Go to UA-cam. Type in pacific mike homepage. When our logo comes up, click on it. Now, on that page, click on the word "videos." There are approx. 275 of them with pictures and descriptions. I put my own Shovelhead together on there. I installed primaries.
Got a clutch question if you don't mind since I seen this video. The 73 FLH I just got I noticed after taking the primary off has a sifton diaphragm clutch in it. Are you familiar with these? What I'm wondering now is the proper way to adjust it .
I haven't done one of those. But, I can tell you where it comes from and you can probably get instructions from the supplier. Tedd Cycle, better known as V-Twin in New York, owns the name "Sifton" after the Late Great, Mr. Tom Sifton. They manufacture and sell parts using that name. They're also some pretty nice folks. I would either contact them direct or go through your local shop to them.
@@pacificmike9501 OK thanks. I actually read somewhere to adjust it for a 85-90 FX/Softail. I screwed the cable all the way in until full slack then adjusted the distance from ratchet to starter at 1/2", turned the screw in on clutch rod adjustment till touches then out 1/8", locked it down and then adjusted the slack out of the cable to 1/16" free play on clutch lever for the hand. Seems to work OK and goes into neutral easily. No creep in first gear sitting so maybe it's good. I need to get out on the road to see how it operates. This Trans shifts easy into first and fourth but second and third is a full throw and firm. Maybe it's set up to shift that way ? These trans with straight cut gears reminds me of the Muncie rock crusher m22 four speeds in the old gm muscle cars I used to drive long ago. I'm not that familiar with these and how they shift . When fresh rebuilt are they easy to shift or just naturally clunky? The later 5 speed in the 01 FLH I had was easy to shift but this four speed you have to give it a firm shift to get it in gear...
@@pacificmike9501 Tell you one thing the pull on this clutch is very strong on this Sifton. Id like to put a mousetrap setup on it to ease the pull. Love the look of those contraptions and it would give it a little more style for me. That's what I need as I get trigger finger at times and from a condition I have my hands get numb and or lock up on me. I need a much lighter clutch pull. I need to find a complete setup to put on my ride. You don't have an extra one lying around to get rid of do ya or know where I can get one do ya?
just serviced my 76 flh clutch yesterday installed new friction discs but did not drill plates still draggs so im going to pull clutch again try drilling the plates to 25/64 hope it cures the drag problem
Hopefully, it will. Also, watch the clutch as you pull it in to see if it is breaking straight. You may have to "uneven" the springs a little to make the plates separate evenly. Also, notice the "Ram Jett Retainer" I use that stabilizes the basket.
@@pacificmike9501 a-ha yes ive noticed that it is not breaking straight and ive always wondered why and what is the cure when i get the time maybe tomorrow i will dissasemble and replace frictions with drilled ones and reasemble and uneven the spring pressure looking for a clean break i think your info just might solve this dragging clutch that ive been suffering with for far too long thank you for sharing your thoughts on this problem thanks again !!!!
Thanks for all the info on the older Harley's. Really helps and your content is great. My friend asked me to help on a 1948 flat head. We got the motor running nice now using you carb videos. My issue now is I can't get it into gear once it's running. The gears just grind. Seems to shift ok when it's off. Is there an adjustment I am missing for the clutch?
Okay. You said "Flathead." Is this a Big Twin, or a 45? Either way, it sounds like your clutch isn't releasing. Yes, the clutch must be adjusted. Do you have a service manual? Again, what is the bike? The clutch plates could be stuck together if the bike has been just sitting around. Better address this before putting it in gear again. Transmission parts are expensive
Thanks so much for the reply. All I was told is 48 flat head. S/n on the motor says 42u4272. It's been in his family since new. 12v conversion, belt drive. I think it has been restored sometime in its life. It's been sitting since 1992. Motor run great thanks to you videos. Thanks for all the content. I dont have a manual but it think your clutch video will get me where I need. Mike
I think we showed it on the Shovelhead assembly. It is the same for 74 or 80 inch with hydraulic lifters. Or, do you have solids? If you have solids, it's the same as any Harley with solid lifters. You can go by the Knucklehead valve adjustment in our videos.
Hi Mike! Realy enjoying your channel, great to see another old grey haired biker type working on old bikes. Kind of an off topic question for you. I recently aquired a 59 Pan after many years of running a 77 Shovel. Loved the belt drive on the shovel and I'm thinking that the Pan will get a belt this winter. My question is how did you route the crankcase breather on Baby Doll?
You may have to modify the breather tube going into the primary. Remove the tube and modify the primary end to attach a 3/8 hose to the end of it. Route the hose behind the primary tin and out the back of the bike. Be careful how you do it so it doesn't ever spray oil on the rear tire. Be sure you bottom the oiler screw on the oil pump. Don't tighten it so much that it damages the pump. Now it is just a breather and not an oiler.
Mike, love your videos, I have this old 58 FL with a shovel upper end (chopper) that has been sitting in storage forever, now my son wants to put it together and your videos are helping, anyway we just installed the hand clutch cable and it's super hard to pull, I guess some cable lube and go through the clutch, also it has a old phase 3 primary belt, could the pressure plate springs possibly stiffened up over the years, I don't remember ever being that hard, any thoughts?
Yep. Take it all apart. Clean the clutch plates, both steels and fibers. Clean and lube the lever. Hang up the cable and run Break Free in it 'til it runs out the bottom. The clutch springs are probably good. We have videos up for all of these procedures. You'll find them under "Playlists" on our UA-cam Channel Home Page.
Lifters wear out. Never a question of "if," just "when." When replacing cams and doing the usual "upgrades," the lifters are usually replaced with "aftermarket high performance" units. You didn't mention how many miles are on the original lifters. They are a "wear item" and shouldn't be forgotten.
Can you do a video on adjusting the rocker and throw out rod? I just installed a rocker pedal on my shovelhead, I've got a BDL primary so it's a little different.
We've done it, and will proably do it again. Go to our UA-cam Home Page (pacific mike). Click on videos and look through them for a picture of me doing one on my red Panhead (Babydoll). Look at the stuf on early clutches too.
I don’t think you are ever boring. Teaching us all the true way of general maintenance. We ❤️ U. 🇨🇦
Thank you. But I do bore myself sometimes.
Love your videos Mike very good one I ride a fatboy I need clutch work lol
Life gets in the way.. you're voice is so distinct. I walked by you a couple times in separate rooms at the gnrs every time I heard your voice I stopped and told the wife hey I watch that dude on UA-cam.
Stop and say hello please. I truly appreciate you. And, the show was great!
I admire people working and taking the time to explain these young super-bikes, how fantastic! Thanks for sharing Mike! Hope to see you on the road some day!!
I hope so too!
Thank you Mike. You are a bank of knowledge. I've been tinkering with shovels about thirty years, and still learning a lot , thanks to you. From your Georgia friend, " Dawg!!!"
Thank You. The learning goes on forever. In that thirty years, you've learned a lot. I'm sure you could show me something.
Restoring my dad's old pan, you're always my go to Mike. Thanks a bunch for your videos.
Thank You. I hope your dad feels honored. If he is with us or not, do him proud.
Just found your video’s and love them. Your old school technology is what people learn from. Thank you for sharing
Thank you.
Thanks Mike, delivery was perfect
From the Southern Hemisphere- We salute you 🇦🇺
Thank You.
Thanks Mike! Got my 66 back on the road after watching this video. Keep em coming!
Will do!
Hi Mike, couldn't have come at a better time as I have just bought a new set of Barnett clutch plates and springs for my 64 Panhead.
Cool. Be sure you look at our other videos on four speed dry clutches. Just go to our UA-cam channel and click on "videos." They'll be easy to find.
Another informative video. Brothers forever.🇨🇦
Thank you.
Hello and thank you for putting up these informative videos. Just watched this one tonight, re-did my Panhead clutch again after changing the transmission sprocket a couple of weeks ago. I also have the Barnett aluminum clutch friction discs in mine, very good product, I've been using them in my Pan since 1998. I noticed that the friction discs were not making full contact against the steel plates by the wear pattern on the friction material. So since I was not in a hurry I set up my 1/2 inch thick glass panel for flat sanding with 220 grit sandpaper and rubbed each friction disc on that until I had a perfectly flat contact surface. It made a real difference in the feel of the clutch even using my foot(suicide) clutch and jockey shift. Now it is in contact or not in contact, none of the grabbing or incomplete release I had before which makes shifting much nicer. I also use a Zodiac Tamer Kit that holds the clutch basket from moving out, I run a belt drive also.
Cool. There are so many products out there and when you find a system that you like, you've won the battle. Got a few myself.
Mike , thanks so much for your expert instructions they have helped me to become a much better wrench and my old shovelhead thanks you too. Your awesome bruh ! I have an aunt who lives in Riverside cali
Cool. Is she single and attractive? I mean that most respectfully.
No man she isn't
Thank you Mike for another great workshop night love watching your videos if I have a problem I can always go to your videos to teach me how to god bless you
Awesome, thank you!
@@pacificmike9501 I hope someday I can meet you in person I have a great deal of respect for you
Hi Mike, I asked you about a clutch issue I was having and wanted to let you know that I purchased a new clutch and went back to the stock circulating system. I built this bike, a 1978 fxe 74 ci over the winter and your videos were there when I got in a bind and didn't quite understand something . Thank you for your response and your very well done videos!
That's wonderful. Thank You. And may you and your Shovelhead enjoy many pleasureable years together.
Aloha Mike... I have been building British bikes for a long time and just picked up a 49 Fl which is my first HD. Some things about the bike were not as designed so been putting it back to stock configuration. Of course I bought a manual but it almost isn't needed now that I found you. I really enjoy your videos!!! Keep on keeping on....
Thank You. Have fun with it.
I enjoy and appreciate all of your posts. I know its a lot work making quality videos. Thanks, very informative
I appreciate you and your opinion.
Thank you for sharing your expertise Mike. I was going to post about my grabbing clutch problem but did not want to duplicate a previous poster so I srcoled thru the clutch posts and discovered the post from Dan McCarthy _ same issues. My 2" open primary conversion to my '73 shovel would not disengage the mainshaft. It drove me nuts because I had already done two 1.5" belt conversions successfully. Your advice for drilling out the clutch plates with 25/64 bit did the TRICK! I am so freakin happy with my recent bobber build.
Cool. That makes me feel really good.
Great video as always Mike. As far as plate brands go a little over twenty years ago I put a set of Barnett plates into the clutch of my Shovelhead. I think once in that time I cleaned them like you are doing here after a carb tweak added a few HP and it started slipping. Haven't had to monkey with them since. I don't know if Barnett is still around but this video made me think of them. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge. I live in a rural area in Southern Virginia and the last old timer around these parts that really knew these old bikes passed away a few years ago. Your videos are very helpful to those of us all alone in the wilds trying to keep our old iron healthy.
Thank you. We used to have to figure it out every time we added more horsepower. Tighten those springs some more. Now, if you didn't have one before, you'd be thankful for a foot clutch now. However, Barnett is very much still in business and still family owned. Their factory is in Ventura California. Still making great stuff.
Had a 65 panhead back in the 70s that had a problem with the clutch plates becoming soaked with oil . Apparently the chain oil wasn't getting suckrd back into the engine . 🤔
Love your videos thankyou 👍
You're probably right. I've done so many of those, I had to learn them. Just another day at the office.
Hi Mike, I just had apart a '68 FLH as it had some starter issues. Had a mix match of parts; one being the wrong year clutch shell ('70 and +). I put in a '65 - '69 clutch shell and reused the clutch plates after inspecting them and cleaning them. I adjusted springs first to 1-1/32" as per manual without having the pushrod adjusting screw tight. Next I set the clutch arm to about 1/2" from the starter, then backed off the adjusting screw 1'8" and tightened the locknut. Then adjusted the clutch cable/hand lever to have approx. 1/4" play. I pulled the hand lever in several times and noted that the pressure plate was likely coming out 1/4" or maybe 5/16". I sat on the bike then and put it in gear and pushed it forward with the hand lever fully in (to disengage the clutch) and it was dragging considerably. The clutch shell looked in good shape and the studs on the clutch hub I sanded and were in good shape, so what could be wrong to not allow the clutch to fully disengage? Is it likely to be that I need to drill out the ten holes per plate on the friction discs ab extra 1/32"?? Any thoughts would be appreciated and I know you enjoy making clutches work well so thought I would ask. Thank you. Darren.
Please realize, although I try, can't see it from here. First, are the plates separating evenly all the way around. Sometimes the springs don't always have even tension and the three studs may need to be tightened unequal amounts in order to compensate. If the plates are not sliding well because the holes the studs (fingers) pass through are not smooth, drill oversize 1/64th, not 1/32nd. You don't need a full 1/4" in that lever. An eighth or less may be the answer. A lot of people used to figure a nickle"s thickness where the lever touches the perch. Do not get a non-mousetrap unit confused with a mousetrap. I'm assuming no mousetrap. Last mousetrap was 1967. But I have installed them on later models.
@@pacificmike9501 Thank you Mike for your thoughts; I know you are a busy guy. I guess I should secure the handlever in the fully closed position and then measure the distance between the release disc and clutch friction disc to see if it is opening equally and if not adjust? No mousetrap Mike and BTW I am using the correct springs for '68 and up and I am using a 5 stud hub. Thanks again.
@@ironearl69 I could be wrong but I was always taught those 5 stud clutch hubs were more for drag racing and the three stud clutch hubs were better for normal use for disengagement purposes. I personally think you can't diagnose if it is disengaging right unless you start it and ride it.
Thanks for the knowledge mike.....happy New year
Thank you and Happy New Year.
THANK YOU...for sharing. Watched and very much enjoyed. Always a thumb up.
Thank you.
Glad to see a new video! Keep up the good work!
Thank you.
Wishing you and your family a Healthy Happy New Year. Thank you for the Great Videos.
Thank you and, wishing you and yours the same.
putting the extra steel in by the hub basket is the best idea. I ruined a brand new hub basket recently. but it was repairable by putting in the steel.
Did putting the extra steel up against the basket change the way it grabbed? I've never heard of this before, and am getting ready to install new BDL drive
Yep. Easy fix. Thank you.
I learn volumes from you. Thank you.
My pleasure!
I ran the Barnett clutch Assy. and Phase 3 open primary combo on my stock 80” shovel. Your triggering a little trip down memory lane with your vids Pacific Mike :).
Yah, it was and is fun stuff.
Pacific Mike I mean to say that, the engine was the stock 80” first one, I bought it from the factory 1980. I had already gotten a 57 pan head frame, and a couple of damaged wide glides that fixed up into a good one. I like the new efi harleys , they are Bullit proof. Maybe to good, could be part of California Harley economic woes. Got the new Aircraft spec brakes that were coming out. Yeah nostalgia is a big part of my everyday world these days😂
Baby Doll is absolutely beautiful thank you I was wondering what was in the bottle and couple minutes you answered what I had just thought I had to laugh...Thank You Pacific Mike M love & Respect to you....John E.
Thank You.
Great vid....very similar to my 99 with a BDL open set up.....Thanks.
Thank you.
Thank you, good sir! Your guidance was invaluable.
Thank You. That's great to hear.
Great video Mike! A little bit long, but what a pleasure to watch and listen 😎
A little thing I do is I drill the clutch plate holes just a bit bigger, so they slide easier to come free.
It make more noise, but what a fun to hear. Cheers from France
Thank you. I do the same thing, depending on the size of the holes. Most clutch plates are stamped out and the tooling gets old. The holes aren't round as they should be. When I get that, I drill them out 1/64th over the intended 3/8". Don't go to big, and, no noise.
@@pacificmike9501 Hi Mike, on my shovelhead I've fit a "York" clutch, that works realy marvelous, have ou heart about them?
It's so good knowing there's still old school bike mechanics, koodos!
Thank You
Very nice Mike. Thanks.
Thank you.
Good video! Enjoyed it! I would love to see a twin cam video.
Thank you. I think I have to seal up a twin cam inner primary this week end. Hope I have a camera guy.
great lessons Mike, I own shovelheads, a 72 fx, a 78 flh and a 82 flh. My question is keep the chain primary or go belt drive. I like to keep stuff stock for higher values, thanks
Thank you. I like belt drives on kick start bikes and I like chain drives on electric start bikes. Just my preference.
I love your videos man hope to see more and more of them Thank You
Thank you.
Wow Mike look at all your views man. Been watching for years love you man. Ride free, Panheads heck yeah
Thank You.
Great video! Somehow I missed the part showing all the lesser informed how to load the springs on the pressure plate with the adjusting screw and washer. Some people think their springs are going flying on removal. Maybe it was in a previous video.
Cheers
I have shown it, but, lay the releasing disc smooth side down and put the springs in place, all ten in a circle with their respective holes in alignment with each spring. Now, lay the pressure plate on top of the springs. Depending on the clutch hub you're using, there will be either three or five of those holes shaped for adjusting nuts. Don't worry about them, they will register when installing the releasing disc onto the hub, later. Now lay a large flat washer or a Shovelhead valve spring retainer over the large center hole in the pressure plate. The washer should have a 3/8 hole in the center or size it down with a small washer over the big one. Now, install the center adjusting screw and put the locknut on it. Tighten the lock nut some and the whole thing is in one piece. After you install it with all of the three or five stud adjusting nuts, you can remove the center locknut and take out the large flatwasher.
Thanks for putting this together. I have a 49 I'm going to have questions about. PEACE
Thank you. Hope I can help.
Thanks mate, this was absolutely awesome. Watching from Western Australia 🍻
Glad you enjoyed it
Great video. Encouraged to pull mine apart as the bike does not want to down shit from third. The plates are a bit grooved and one plate has some rust as though it was stuck to the fiber disk. So I guess the whole system should be replaced?? Even the basket has some grooving and a bit of oil. I wish pictures could be posted!! Maybe I'll clean it up and see how it performs, but the grooving is not going away without a lathe.............
Sometimes they clean up and work fine. Somes times they don't. New stuff is always cool, but not always necessary or economically feasible. Look it over. Get a feel for how it works. This is the learning proccess.
Thanks, I’ll clean it up and give it a shot. One conundrum I have is that my case is stamped as a 1940 WLA. That’s a very unusual and unlikely model. I’m thinking it’s actually a 1941 up clutch but don’t really know how to confirm that without buying parts….. I see a lot of parts listed for 1941 and up, but not for 1940.
You'll need parts for a WLA. Don't buy parts for a Big Twin.
Great video, I just stumbled across your ch. today. Sure glad I did, I have an 86 evo with a 4 speed.
Thank you. Hopefully, I can be of service.
great video, very informative. Thanks so much for doing this and taking the time to teach everyone. cant wait to watch more videos of yours
Thank You. We do have a bunch of videos, already available to you. Just ggo to UA-cam, then pacific mike. Then click on "videos."
Another great video Mike. By watching your vids I managed to build my 74 fxe from boxes... She's a real eye catcher now. Thanks. If you have a email I can send you pics. Currently I have a strange whinning noise in third... So I'm on the lookout for related vids. Cheers again. J
Thank You. Sorry, I need to figure out the picture thing on the Channel. That "whinining" noise in third gear is probably the "third gear" bushing. It comes from riding around in third gear all the time. Probably spent it's life riding around town. Look it up in your service manual. I said "probably" and a "long distance" diagnosis may not be correct. It's a big job, of course, to pull the trans and rebuild it, but not a lot of money in parts if the gears are all good.
U can also use a top shock washer, to retain those spring s
Or a large flatwasher stacked with a small flatwasher, or something from the hardware store. It's fun to be creative. That old valve spring retainer has been used on old cluches for over forty years. Don't tell her there's a cheap replacement for her.
@@pacificmike9501 I've always used an old Chevy fender shim. Works perfectly.
Best move I ever made on my 81 fxs was get rid of stock clutch & compensator. Replaced with BDL pro clutch kit wit sold sprocket & chain. It uses the solid Evo style sealed bearings. Much less vibration & clutch never slips
Very Cool.
If Bob Ross was introduced to motorcycles instead of paint as a kid! I could watch these videos all day!
He really was special.
Mike, I absolutely love the videos. Keep them coming. My 58 Panhead hemorrhages oil. They all do, but yours does not! Please enlighten me. PS the chain Oiler has been capped off
Are you referring to the breather tube coming out of the crankcase into the primary? If os, there's your problem. Look at the service manual and find the screw on the oil pump that controls the amount of oil that comes out of that breather tube. Now, close down that screw (just tighten it until it bottoms). Now, open that beather tube. If it's noot breathing, your engine is building up all kinds of destructive pressure.
@@pacificmike9501 I will give that a go and get back to you. Thank you!
Thank you Mike, have a blessed week
And, I wish you one.
Thanks Mike!
Thank you.
Mike great videos!!!! I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the right place but could you make a video on assembly and then adjusting the friction discs in a rocker clutch? Kind of like how you did the mouse trap video only this time with the rocker clutch?
I do show adjusting the shifter on my Panhead. I think it's there. I know I already showed it. Maybe it's on a clutch video.
Mike I've watched all of your clutch videos, I haven't seen anything on how to adjust the rocker clutch setup, especially as detailed as the mouse trap video is. Rocker clutch transmission adjustment video would be great.
Hello Micke!!! I guess you like to service your clutch because the look like the 45 rpm acetate disk with all the good music of the good days!!! best regards as always!
Yes I do!
Hey Mike, so are you adding a extra steel plate to the stack? Does the metal on metal still engage/grab the same? Just received a new BDL system and don't want to hurt anything. I've never seen this done before
The bottom fiber either engages on the inner surface of the basket itself, or it engages against a steel plate that is protecting the basket. It's a very common old way of doing it. If you let the fiber plate engage with the basket, it tends to wear and gall in there. Next time you take it apart, you might say, "I don't like that," and add a steel plate, or not. No harm, no foul. Just remember, if you add a steel plate, you may have to grind the edges and remove the buffers so it can bottom completely flat in the basket.
Mike my name is John gordon I live in rock falls ill. I own a 1962 flh harley panhead. I have replaced over approximately 2500 dollars in parts and performed extensive amount of work on her. I had to replace the pivot plate on the mousetrap.also replaced the dry clutch package with new parts. I have the clutch lever at one eighth play. I watched your video about the clutch adj. My question is with the mousetrap system is the pressure on the clutch pushrod to the throw out bearing the same as shown on your video
There is no pressure until the arm is moved. The idea is to adjust to the point of pressure, then back off so there is none.
very thorough ,,i need this ,,cant get my 1936el adjusted right,,always engaged wont disengage.. very impressed.. i will start w a steel disc like u did see if that solves my no disengaging issue
"Clean" works on most of it.
Was wondering if you could please do a video on how to setup the rocker pedal assembly and linkage adjustments so that everything works as designed.
There's stuff in there on that. Go to UA-cam. Type in Pacific Mike. When the Homepage comes up, click on the word "videos." There's about 275 videos. Plenty of stuff you're looking for. Look at the videos on my red Panhead (Baby Doll).
Mate, that is a really nice Pan you have there, I'd love to see your mates 48. I hope I can find a nice one soon myself. Great vid. 👍
Thank You. They really are fun.
Hope you have a great 2020👍🖖
Thank you and wishing you the same.
Hi Mike, Thank you for all the videos and experience, as you teach from your home garage! also just love it when something doesn't go perfect for you, it makes you more real. OK enough brown nosing! I restored a 1981 Sturgis about 10 yrs ago, and it only has about (11,000 Mi.) clutch and transmission shifted like butter but had a little clutch chatter till warm. Thinking a warped plate I put in a new clutch plates and steel plates this time with anti rattle balls; chatter gone but cant find neutral when running now?? cant seem to dial in the adjustment, followed service manual but without success!!! Haven't had this happen on any other shovels I own; could you do a video on how to adjust properly, my best Jim
I don't have one of those transmissions with the "Astrodome lid." But, if you look in the service manual for the clutch adjustment, you'll see a 13/16" measurement off of the top of the lid, to the clutch release lever. Quite possibly, your issue. Another possible issue would be the fiber plates not sliding easily on the clutch hub "fingers." This happens with a lot of aftermarket plates after their dies have been used a few million times. If such is the case, I drill out the holes in the plates 1/64th of an inch over the original 3/8ths. Then they slide easily.
@@pacificmike9501 Thank you Mike, I didn't check for a reply until just now 9:35 am East coast ( Rhode Island smallest state in the union ) I thought If i received an answer; mite be weeks. I use a small block of wood with Formica on one side 13/16" in between arm and tranny while I start my adjustment on it. I think your advice to drill my be my answer and will try that. I'm a 1951 model (be 71) in a couple of weeks; so probably not a whole lot of tread left on my tires LOL. I truly appreciate what you are doing Mike, Keep it shinny side up!! Jim
Thank You, you got plenty tread left. We both do.
Hi Mike, great videos! When adjusting my shovelhead clutch it seems that the freeplay in the clutch arm after adjusting the screw gets taken away when cable adjustment is made. Should I be holding the arm back so the cable doesn't pull it into engagement with the throwout bearing?
I think you have no freeplay up at the hand lever, or you need to lube that clutch cable. Take it loose from the hand lever and run something down inside, then wait and do it again several times. A good cable lube product or even "Break Free."
@@pacificmike9501 new clutch cable fully lubed. Should the clutch arm have a spring attached to pull it away from the throwout bearing like cars do?
No. There should be clearance between the adjusting screw and the clutch pushrod. It's asking you for a thorough inspection to see what's hanging it up. It could be the pushrod or the throwout bearing .Time to get in there.
Thanks Mike for taking time to answer me. All the parts were trashed, bearing, pushrod end & adjusting screw tip too. I ordered all new heavy duty stuff. Thanks again.
I had a feelin'. Been there. Be sure to allow a little gap between the adjusting screw and the pushrod, just a little, and grease all the ends.
Mike, sorry to comment on an old video! I've been having a few issues with my clutch and I noticed you have steel/fibre/steel/fibre/steel/fibre. I have an extra fibre at the back. I never really thought much of it until now! may be why my clutch has been acting wild!
The best combination is the one that works for you.
@@pacificmike9501 The combo I had in there isn't smooth and quite grabby! I'm going to try yours out and see where we land!
Hey Mike, new subscriber here. Love your videos. Can't stop binge watching them!
An old shovel owner and rebuilder here, years ago. Twin cam owner now. Learnin' stuff here like the extra steel disc hint.
Question: I noticed in this video that you installed the clutch steels still shiny but scuffed the discs. What about scuffing the steels? All the old stories in the old days of guys slightly roughing up clutch steel discs on the side of the road on the concrete when the clutch started to slip...?
Thanks again man.
Ride safe,
Frank
Not all materials are the same. Do what works for you. They will get "polished" in there anyway. Clean is what you need. Clean and dry. Again, what works for you is what you need. Take care.
Hi Mike! Great videos on clutch disassembly and cleaning! The clutch on my '77 Shovelhead wasn't engaging properly, so I removed the primary cover to have a look. Turns out when I work the clutch lever, the left side of the clutch basket moves out, but the right side hardly moves at all. The clutch springs seem to be relatively even, but I'll take measurements and adjust them evening just to be sure. Can you tell me what's causing the uneven movement of the clutch basket? Thanks!
If everything is cleaned and lubed properly, the basket should stay still. Look at all of our stuff on clutches. Just hit the "videos" button. There are several videos on the old dry clutches.
Saw you do 1 1/2 turns at 21:20. That is why you had to do another half turn on the other two to match them.
Okay.
I have an 1980 FLH 4 speed with a wet clutch 5 nuts for adjusting. It looks like the bendix hasn't engaged properly to the gear on the clutch so the teeth's are destroyed.
I need to get a new clutch and have been thinking of converting to a belt drive.
I'm thinking it will make less noise and there will be one less place oil will come out..
What's your take?
Thank you so much for these videos. I watch them and rewatch them all the time 🙏
I think what you're saying doesn't jive. 1980 FLH has a dry cutch. I think you may have some modifications that don't work well together.
Am I misunderstanding? The primary is chain drive and full of oil. So I assumed the clutch would be wet.
Dry clutch for belt drive right?
1980 FLH came with a dry clutch.
Always picking up your tips and tricks
Cool.
Mike, I have the same releasing disk and wondering if you could give me your starting sprint tension measurements? Thanks!
It's really pretty simple. Take your measurement the same as you would for a thin steel disc. Just allow more in the amount of the depth of the "spring pocked." Use a narrow ruler or caliper and measure the depth of that hole. subtract it from the measurement you would usually use. Then you have it. If the hole is 1/4 " deep and your measurement is supposed to be 1", from the surface of the releasing disc to the pressure plate it should measure 3/4".
@@pacificmike9501 fair enough, I'll stick a caliper in there. I was just feeling lazy. I appreciate the reply!
Thanks Mike.
I bought this disc a few months ago and never ran it because it felt loose on the fingers and I was concerned about faster wear of the fingers. I ended up buying a second disc, the stock style thin steel crap and ended up warping that thing first time 'racing around' so now back to a sticky clutch at the moment. I'm going to make a switch to the thick aluminum one and hope for some better life!
I've been riding and wrenching on my (chopped) '62FL for forty years and learned something when you started with the steel.
Further more, I just replaced a BDL basket because of the friction disc gouging you mention. Question for you, Mike:
instead of replacing the basket could I have just dropped a (corner shaved) steel in? Also, would you do me a favor and
if you haven't put the outer on yet, or have an old Pan basket lying around measure the depth? Shovels are deeper?
Yes, you could have put a plate i there. But, as you ask, the difference in depth can be from Manufacturer to manufacturer. There are also bunches of manufacturers of clutch plates. The stacks vary in height. I've gone through piles of used stuff to come up with different combinations to suit the applications. I don't know what BDL"s depth is.
@@pacificmike9501 I wasn't asking the BDL depth. I've the old one laying on the back porch. I was asking what stock (Pan) is. That I don't have any longer (it's
lost or buried). The thing is, my basket doesn't have room for an extra steel. I suppose I could run a 1/2 disc at the release plate. Or maybe I'm just
over thinking it (shrug).
And an after note: It just dawned on me you aren't running a stock primary either. Still, if you've a stock one lying around or have the opportunity to measure a customer's
I'd be interested in knowing how deep it is. Just because, I guess. Thanks.
Yes, they call me "Drift." ☺
Like your video, what do you think
is better the 3 or the 5 finger clutch hub
Matter of personal preference. I prefer the three.
I thought you just scuffed them up on a concrete floor a few times and you were good to go? Thank you for the videos.
It works. The neater the job, the easier it works. I remember doing them on the sidewalk.
Part 2:
Since I use the Zodiac Tamer Kit in my Pan 4 speed clutch the clutch basket cannot be removed without first removing the clutch hub nut. Makes it difficult to remove without using an air impact tool and almost impossible to use the correct torque when installing the hub nut. So I made up this tool from an old clutch friction disc and clutch steel using three 1/4 inch bolts to hold them together, make sure you center them. I drilled the holes in the steel and inserted them together into the clutch, centered them and started drilling the holes in the friction disc, finish drilling the holes on the bench. To use it just remove all clutch plates, insert tool into clutch all the way in to the base of the fingers, now the hub and basket are locked together. I run a belt so I made a steel bar to lock the pulleys and once that is in place everything is locked. I was going to attach pictures but can't figure out how, sorry.
Very cool. Thank You.
nice to know bikes have dry clutches, i thought only wet existed but i work on cars etc not bikes, i like your channel a lot
Glad you like them! The later model stuff has wet clutches.
Thank you
And, thank you.
Working on my shovelhead clutch . Can of worms. Dry like yours ; belt drive . I have to rev it to get in nuetral . My springs are 5 Barnett and 5 factory springs . So I went back to all factory springs . Now I have to rev to get in neutral and it goes past and to second gear . Frustrated- got it set up as loose as possible and most clutch pull . I seen all of Indian larrys bike have updated clutch hubs . $$$
Well there are several things on market to help clutch basket from wandering.
Thanks mike .
Making things more better -
😁✊🏻👍👌🙏
Not sure what the problem is. Is the clutch not releasing, or is there a transmission problem? Is the basket loose on the hub? Is the throwout system funtctioning properly?
@@pacificmike9501 yes it opens wide . Dragging I believe. I have the big fix rollers . I have 5 finger hub . 5 finger not good as 3 now I’m told . I have a primo 11mm belt drive with idler . I know tension is right . Idler seems to keep it riding towards inner primary side . 🤔 👍🙏
That's another issue. Shimming the trans to get the mainshaft in the same plane with the motor shaft is what you need. Maybe the idler will require some shimming.
@@pacificmike9501 amen mike - I will investigate. Many thanks . Wife and I got out for a ride ; pi town loop . Dang it was great hearing em v twin’s roar side by side . 😁 autumn in the air -
✊🏻👍👌🙏👋
You bet. Been out on my Shovel. She's serving up some serious thrills lately.
Good video....what was you final measurment?...thanks
Thank You. I forgot. You tighten it (evenly) until it holds well. The recommended measurement should do it.
Great Video, Mike... I have a 1980 Shovelhead FLT (mostly stock)... primary converted to dry belt drive, and my clutch has been 'grabby'... where is catches unexpectedly while slowly release the handle. I completed a full service (using your video)... QUESTION: Do you ever 'lightly grease' the fingers of the clutch basket so the plates 'slide easier'? Thanks.
NO. But I've used a lot of different brands of clutch plates. Usually, they are stamped out. That's fine, after years of using the same tooling, the 3/8" holes for the "fingers" aren't quite nice any more. I go 1/64th" over on all of those ten holes in each plate. I use a drill press. Go slow and don't hurt yourself. The other thing is to make sure those fingers are smooth.
I was baffled as how you were able to have the release plate assembled with the springs already under pressure, until you finally mentioned the shovel head valve retainer .
Genius!
Thanks for mentioning. I have no idea how that can be reassembled without that? How did Harley suggest this?
Thanks for that video.
My56PAN
It's the way I was taught in the seventies. It's not hard to assemble off the bike and then put it on. The guys I knew back then were not trained by the factory.
Any advantage to using some kind of lock washers on that hardware Mike? I see a few with safety wire sometimes.
with safety wires YOU KNOW they wont come loose, they are easy to do. they are DEEP inside so u cant check them daily to know
Not on the clutch studs. I don't know where you're referring to. But in in some places, safety wire is great.
Thanks , good stuff. Much appreciated.
Glad it helped
Another great video. On my knucklehead i ran the old pressure plate and some old (maybee original) springs, and that ment that there was'nt the same tension in each spring, so when ever i serviced it, instead of messureing the distance, I had to tightening the spring different each time. I did it aprox and then made sure the ajusting plate went straight out when activated. Pull the clutch severeal times, while slowy rotating the clutchhead (using kickpedal or backwheel). I know i could have bought new springs, but they lasted the 26 year i rode the bike.
Greeting from Denmark
Thank you. And, your explanation is great. I tried to show getting the releasing disc to move straight and even in one of our previous videos. This was a "go back and make it quit slipping" video. And I appreciate the fact that parts that are "half worn are still half good."
Whenever I'm not sure if something I just find one of your videos.
Cool, Thank You.
What measurement are Are you looking to achieve total on the spring adjustment I can never get what the manufacturer says as far as measurements go which is an inch 1 1/32. Great videos
It is from the inside edge of the pressure plate (the outer collar) to the releasing disc.
Hi Mike thanks for the video I’m having trouble adjusting my clutch adjusting screw I can turn it in to tighten the clutch but I still can’t get my clutch to function correctly it will not disengage the gears so it always seems like it’s in gear for example if it was started and I open the clutch to release it to bike with jump in stall
Any ideas on how I can fix this
1955 Panhead
Hard to say. You may have your plates sticking together. Have you disassembled and cleaned it all?
"That was working not well"- A classic line.
The point I was trying to make is: These things are subject to many issues. A lot of the parts we're working with are quite old. So, the goal is to make all of these parts function well together. If at first you don't succeed (whatever level of perfection you're going for), go back in and have a little talk with her. Glad you like it. Thank You.
@@pacificmike9501 You're glad I like it, actually I love it and I am going to steal it, if you don't mind.
I am getting ready to put my clutch in 1979 shovelhead with all new plate's. I ordered barnett steel plates without the anti rattle balls. Do you think that is a mistake? The number one thing I am looking for is they work good and have long life. I am replacing the original steel factory plates.
It will be great. It may make a sound you do or don't like. Not a mistake. If you're running an open primary, you'll make a sound that makes your friends know it's you. Hey, I hear Joe Surfer goin' through the gears.
Hey guy happy happy holidays , i was just wondering can a mouse trap be installed to a 1994 heritege softail evo?
Anything can be done. It would be very complicated and there are a couple of different approaches that come to mind. A cable would have to be fabricated. The best way ( in my mind) to do the rod would be to use an early 5 speed trap door on your transmission and fabricate the clutch arm for a proper location. That's a pretty intense, but possible, feat. But, Happy Holidays!
@@pacificmike9501 thnx appreciate it
How do you get the oil out of a 1940s three bolt WL transmission? I did not see a drain plug. I’m hoping one doesn’t have to bring it back out of the fill hole.
Good information, video's well done.
Thank you.
Hi Mike! As you recommended, I removed the cam cover on my '77 Shovelhead in hopes of draining the oil and gas from the crankcase. Thanks to one of your videos, I made my own cover puller based on your design. Since there's at least four quarts of oil, plus an unknown quantity of fuel in the crankcase, I was expecting a lot of fluid to flow out. That didn't happen. I only got about half a quart of fluid out. Other than tilting the bike, is there something else I need to do to get the fluids out?
Cranking it over will pump it out through the breather hose. If the topend is off, get a hand pump for pumping lubricant into an automotive differential and pump the oil out by hand.
I have a 1980 shovelhead ridgit frame which has been sitting for 5yrs
do you have a vid on taking inner primary off to take engine and transmission out
greatly appreciated
it's time taking bike a part
excited and unsure lol
thks
Go to UA-cam. Type in pacific mike homepage. When our logo comes up, click on it. Now, on that page, click on the word "videos." There are approx. 275 of them with pictures and descriptions. I put my own Shovelhead together on there. I installed primaries.
Got a clutch question if you don't mind since I seen this video. The 73 FLH I just got I noticed after taking the primary off has a sifton diaphragm clutch in it. Are you familiar with these? What I'm wondering now is the proper way to adjust it .
I haven't done one of those. But, I can tell you where it comes from and you can probably get instructions from the supplier. Tedd Cycle, better known as V-Twin in New York, owns the name "Sifton" after the Late Great, Mr. Tom Sifton. They manufacture and sell parts using that name. They're also some pretty nice folks. I would either contact them direct or go through your local shop to them.
@@pacificmike9501 OK thanks. I actually read somewhere to adjust it for a 85-90 FX/Softail. I screwed the cable all the way in until full slack then adjusted the distance from ratchet to starter at 1/2", turned the screw in on clutch rod adjustment till touches then out 1/8", locked it down and then adjusted the slack out of the cable to 1/16" free play on clutch lever for the hand. Seems to work OK and goes into neutral easily. No creep in first gear sitting so maybe it's good. I need to get out on the road to see how it operates. This Trans shifts easy into first and fourth but second and third is a full throw and firm. Maybe it's set up to shift that way ? These trans with straight cut gears reminds me of the Muncie rock crusher m22 four speeds in the old gm muscle cars I used to drive long ago. I'm not that familiar with these and how they shift . When fresh rebuilt are they easy to shift or just naturally clunky? The later 5 speed in the 01 FLH I had was easy to shift but this four speed you have to give it a firm shift to get it in gear...
@@pacificmike9501 Tell you one thing the pull on this clutch is very strong on this Sifton. Id like to put a mousetrap setup on it to ease the pull. Love the look of those contraptions and it would give it a little more style for me. That's what I need as I get trigger finger at times and from a condition I have my hands get numb and or lock up on me. I need a much lighter clutch pull. I need to find a complete setup to put on my ride. You don't have an extra one lying around to get rid of do ya or know where I can get one do ya?
just serviced my 76 flh clutch yesterday installed new friction discs but did not drill plates still draggs so im going to pull clutch again try drilling the plates to 25/64 hope it cures the drag problem
Hopefully, it will. Also, watch the clutch as you pull it in to see if it is breaking straight. You may have to "uneven" the springs a little to make the plates separate evenly. Also, notice the "Ram Jett Retainer" I use that stabilizes the basket.
@@pacificmike9501 a-ha yes ive noticed that it is not breaking straight and ive always wondered why and what is the cure when i get the time maybe tomorrow i will dissasemble and replace frictions with drilled ones and reasemble and uneven the spring pressure looking for a clean break i think your info just might solve this dragging clutch that ive been suffering with for far too long thank you for sharing your thoughts on this problem thanks again !!!!
🏍🖖🏽😃😃 thank you
Love those pans 🍺
Sweet, smooth, and dependable as an old anvil. Thank you.
Thanks for all the info on the older Harley's. Really helps and your content is great.
My friend asked me to help on a 1948 flat head. We got the motor running nice now using you carb videos. My issue now is I can't get it into gear once it's running. The gears just grind. Seems to shift ok when it's off. Is there an adjustment I am missing for the clutch?
When I do get it into gear the clutch seems to work ok to get moving.
Okay. You said "Flathead." Is this a Big Twin, or a 45? Either way, it sounds like your clutch isn't releasing. Yes, the clutch must be adjusted. Do you have a service manual? Again, what is the bike? The clutch plates could be stuck together if the bike has been just sitting around. Better address this before putting it in gear again. Transmission parts are expensive
Thanks so much for the reply. All I was told is 48 flat head. S/n on the motor says 42u4272. It's been in his family since new. 12v conversion, belt drive. I think it has been restored sometime in its life. It's been sitting since 1992. Motor run great thanks to you videos. Thanks for all the content. I dont have a manual but it think your clutch video will get me where I need.
Mike
Hi Mike, do you have pushrod adjustment videos, 80 shovelhead.
I think we showed it on the Shovelhead assembly. It is the same for 74 or 80 inch with hydraulic lifters. Or, do you have solids? If you have solids, it's the same as any Harley with solid lifters. You can go by the Knucklehead valve adjustment in our videos.
Hi Mike, i have solid lifters, i have done it before, just looking for a refresher, and thank you for the videos.
Hi Mike! Realy enjoying your channel, great to see another old grey haired biker type working on old bikes. Kind of an off topic question for you. I recently aquired a 59 Pan after many years of running a 77 Shovel. Loved the belt drive on the shovel and I'm thinking that the Pan will get a belt this winter. My question is how did you route the crankcase breather on Baby Doll?
You may have to modify the breather tube going into the primary. Remove the tube and modify the primary end to attach a 3/8 hose to the end of it. Route the hose behind the primary tin and out the back of the bike. Be careful how you do it so it doesn't ever spray oil on the rear tire. Be sure you bottom the oiler screw on the oil pump. Don't tighten it so much that it damages the pump. Now it is just a breather and not an oiler.
Mike, love your videos, I have this old 58 FL with a shovel upper end (chopper) that has been sitting in storage forever, now my son wants to put it together and your videos are helping, anyway we just installed the hand clutch cable and it's super hard to pull, I guess some cable lube and go through the clutch, also it has a old phase 3 primary belt, could the pressure plate springs possibly stiffened up over the years, I don't remember ever being that hard, any thoughts?
Yep. Take it all apart. Clean the clutch plates, both steels and fibers. Clean and lube the lever. Hang up the cable and run Break Free in it 'til it runs out the bottom. The clutch springs are probably good. We have videos up for all of these procedures. You'll find them under "Playlists" on our UA-cam Channel Home Page.
Hey, Thank You.
Mike, I've heard I should change my lifters on my 110ci twin cam CVO motor? Is there any truth to that
Lifters wear out. Never a question of "if," just "when." When replacing cams and doing the usual "upgrades," the lifters are usually replaced with "aftermarket high performance" units. You didn't mention how many miles are on the original lifters. They are a "wear item" and shouldn't be forgotten.
Can you do a video on adjusting the rocker and throw out rod? I just installed a rocker pedal on my shovelhead, I've got a BDL primary so it's a little different.
We've done it, and will proably do it again. Go to our UA-cam Home Page (pacific mike). Click on videos and look through them for a picture of me doing one on my red Panhead (Babydoll). Look at the stuf on early clutches too.
Hey Mike can you make a video on replacing a stator on a cone shovelhead from the beginning of a running bike ???....
Sure, when I need one.
@@pacificmike9501 Thanks...your videos are all awesome ...