I think it's right. Is villain "bluffing" with QJo simply because he has the queen of hearts? To specifically make AQ/KQ fold? I don't think QJo has enough fold equity. Is he bluffing Ah with an offsuit 2-5? Does he get there with those holdings? There just don't appear to be enough bluffs. The only other option is villain has complete crap (eg. JT/87/66), no hearts, and decided on the flop to pretend he has a flush draw.
That’s such an underbluffed spot most of the time, it’s usually a flush or boat The only thing MAYBE is he’s overvaluing a worse queen when hero checks it over and he thinks he got the best hand, but then again you’d have to be worried about the flush right? so wouldn’t a worse queen check back? Seems like a middling flush or Q-10 off that would just call the pre flop raise, could be A-x of hearts Really like barts breakdown of these hands. This is a tough spot for sure
I think it's a fold. I can't put the villain on any bluff where he has the Ace of Hearts and his other card isn't a heart. I don't think he's betting king queen off suit or queen jack off suit even though he has a heart. Pocket 9s and pocket 8s are the most likely bluffs, but I don't think that the villain was definitely bluffing. I think the villain had a full house.
No reveal doesn't bother me. Most players look at plays in a Vacuum. The reason Bart is now the only Poker-vlog I watch is because of the way he breaks hands down and views the decisions as a "Best Play over time" and not just highlight Wacky hands.
As a sub par low stakes player, I probably call mainly because guys at home games play KQ & QJ offsuit & would value bet that sizing on the river. Could easily have a flush too though 🤔 Interesting hand!
Nothing sub par about that, you're just talking good poker! The correct play is always dependent on your opponent and their particular range. If someone has a lot more random Qx in their range thanequilibrium, and especially if they're going to value bet random Qxs on this river than this becomes a trivial call. Some players are extreme in the other way, I've played with players I'd fold at least 22 here and maybe even 55 because they simply wouldn't bet less than a boat here.
I did not comment when this first released. I do think some very important concepts are discussed, but I thought the primary decision was an easy one. My biggest takeaway, and Bart did sort of touch on this, is the turn card. This is just essential for me. We are hand reading correct? The queen here is definitely not as good a card as it appears. Thing is; we want to be up against QX. The turn being a queen cuts the QX combos in half. Another way to look at it is that if V has QX; then it is 44 to 1 against the turn being a queen. We really need to adjust our read of V's range to mostly flush draws & sets. It's true he might have called flop with something like 88, but that gets less likely when he calls a decent size turn bet. The river card is brutal. The K or J of hearts are probably worse, but still. As to how I would have played this; I thought hero did just fine, but I'd probably have chosen a bigger sizing on both flop & turn. I also sometimes check this turn card & go into more of a bluff catching mode. Finally, I'm not sure I see an MDF situation here. It's true that high stakes players will sometimes go balanced/tricky here & check monsters on river, but not as often as one might think. So hero likely has the strongest, or very close, hand he ever arrives with. But this texture & action make MDF very dicey.
~15 combos of flushes, 12 combos of QT+, 6 combos of slowplayed sets turned boats..... and only a clown would call with a gutshot Ax wheel draw to bluff the river. Tough spot. Can't bet because worse won't call enough. Checking and praying seems like the only option.
Totally agree. There's just way too many hands that beat you, and not enough possible bluffs. The guy called 2 streets for big bets, he's probably not doing that with 77 and turning it into a bluff
What are your 12 combos of QT+? There’s 0 combos of QTs available and even if he plays offsuit combos there’s only 3. 55 and 22 get you to 9, but I have discount those somewhat due to them not raising before the river.
Are high level concepts really useful at low and mid stakes with low level competition? Being balanced against bad players is silly at best. Taking thin value induces bluffs and nukes your equity in spots like this. 🤦
Good content as usual. No reveal calls are okay with me, as poker is a metaphor for life, we don't always get full disclosure in every challenging situation. Keep up the great work Bart, this channel is one of my favorites.
Good spot for turn overbet? Set up closer to pot size jam on river (this specific river might change the plan). Qx never folding. Pocket pairs might get sticky knowing we are polarizing with an overbet and we are never doing that with overpairs on this turn
Yep. I also agree with Bart that sometimes a reveal taints your analysis. It's easy to see a bluff reveal in this spot and think, "well, of course! It was the perfect spot to bluff from!" without also thinking of the other side of that - which is that it's a great spot to bluff because so many _better hands_ can credibly get there. The check-fold here is perfectly fine. Turning AQ into a bluff in this spot is defensible, but it's not a move I can make, so I certainly don't blame anyone else for not making it.
MDF comes in, and I have mixed feelings on Call vs Fold. I don't have a problem with either play honestly. I think I would sigh call and muck the losing hand a lot here a lot of the time. Much of it would depend on my view of the villain's capabilities. It's really hard to much trips, but it is understandable here. The other option I might go with, toss out is a 1/4 pot leadout bet on the river and fold on a jam. That just sounds so exploitable though over time.
Man when someone piles money in on the river on a paired board when I’m holding trips it is ALWAYS a boat. I’m getting shown a full house there 9/10 times in basically every 2-5 game I’ve ever played
I like the fold, you probably need to make sure you have some hands that are bet bet check defend but truthfully even if you play pretty unbalanced here it is not the easiest to exploit spot because BTN had to call pre and call flop so they really should have something.
Why not lead river with a blocker sizing here , maybe 350 and get paid by worse queen x and fold/reevaluate a jam by villain. It’s a private game, id say villain can certainly show up with other hands than a flush on the river.
@zlucadripz6314 because the front door flush getting there on the river is very polarizing. You're either facing a monster or nothing. I highly doubt a worse Q plays this way. It's better to check and brace for a bet. It makes it a lot easier to call a bluff after a check because you give rope to a player to bluff. And the call is far more likely to be more cost effective in case you're running into the monster.
If I am in the situation with AQ on that river and I check I feel it invites my opponent to bet regardless if he has the flush or not. For that reason I would probably bet a sizing just a little smaller than a block bet and then most likely fold to a raise.
Actually, I haven't seen it mentioned here, but villain's play here could very well come down to how he perceives the hero. If he's seen him fold before when a scare card comes off, then it's a no-brainer to try a bluff there for a few hundred to blow him off a big but non-flush/non-FH hand (which was pretty obvious when hero checked the river).
Bart didn’t think about hands the villain is over-valuing. I would call because some people over-value their trips. He could have had Qh-Kscd, thinking he was getting value from an over-pair or JJ.
@@Unhingedanduninformed As a poker player, you can never truly know how another player plays after only a few hours of playing with them. There've been many times in which I thought I was against a "competent" player who ended up making some stupid plays.
I would definitely call. You only lose to flushes (doesn’t feel like the Villain had pocket 5s, 2s or Ts). If Villain did have a flush, then so be it, but Hero cannot give credit for a flush every time the flush draw comes.
@@omarfromthewire603 A turn raise might chase out a lot of heart draws. Probably over pairs, too. I think just calling with a full house on the turn is fine.
Tough spot, it's probably player dependent on if hero is good or not. The only worse hand he could be value betting is an offsuit Q, which might think it's good once the flush comes in, but is unlikely because of how many Qs are accounted for 8s or 9s are checking most of the time as they beat all bluffs and have some showdown value. I'm likely folding, but I also am aware I'm on the tighter side
Tough spot for real. Especially if we think the guy has some decent skill but some flaws in his game still. If he's worse than we think, he never doesn't have Flush+ here and fold is likely correct If he's better, Call-Call-Call-ValueSizing from the button when the front door lands is a risky-but-possible bluff line if you have just a single heart, especially a big one, and we might should put in the call. I think I'm in the camp where we need to lead the river around this sizing or slightly bigger ourselves. By checking we almost put up a neon sign saying "scared of flush" that a perceptive player might pick up on and put the pressure on us. By betting even when the flush lands, we can pressure smaller flushes that may think we have a bigger flush or boat.
If you are bankroll deficient, it's a good fold. If you have a substantial bankroll, then you have the ability to call to potentially win the pot and also gain vital information.
How many times have you seen a hand like this and villain has A10, K10 with a heart, slow played over pairs, under pairs, A5 with Ace of hearts and, of course a ton of weaker Queens. Remember when a Q shows up on the turn he's thinking it's unlikely you have a queen now. To fold this river when you only need to be right 1 in 5 times is madness. Remember even the craziest bluff only needs to get through 25 % of the time by villain to be successful. Congratulations, he can now do this 3 more times with impunity.
Agree with Bart that a "reveal" is somewhat secondary to the strategy discussion. In this instance, arguments for calling or folding are both plausible. It comes down to a player's individual disposition, which may be affected by his bankroll. If $625 is a day's pay, calling makes sense. If $625 is a week's pay, folding makes sense. How it "turned out" is mooted by Hero's prior choice anyway.
I love how Bart always says he’ll get flak in the comments for no reveal hands yet you check the comments and there’s hardly ever a single one. (None as of time of me posting for this video)
Without block betting river, you're really opening yourself up to bets from all SORTS of hands including value hands, value-owned hands, and pure bluffs. Without block betting, you're completely underrepping the strength of your hand on the river and essentially giving up because the FD flush gets there. Arent we not supposed to be scared of monsters under the bed? You check and give opponent too much power, and thus you should call River.
Haven't watched the video yet..but in some situations don't you just have to know your opponent is on a flush draw and when the flush draw comes in you're kinda forced to give up. It's not like you can some how rep a better flush all of a suddenly lol
What i absolutely LOVE about poker today, is ALLLLL YOU PEOPLE actually believe EVERYONE PLAYS THE SAME 🤣🤣🤣 you guys have ZERO CLUE who villian is, how he plays, his bluff frequency, you havnt seen any of his showdown hands, you dk how much money he has in life and if he cares AT ALL about $625 on a river bluff after he sensed weakness and is IP ...... fkng LOVE IT !!!! "SoLvEr aPpRoVeD !!!!" 🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤦♂️🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖
"He doesn't have this "...."he never has ...." ......."His range is..." Ya bro, his range could be 27o-AA ... and he could've had 37o with no heart... just played you IN POSITION... it's like you guys never even played poker and saw someone showdown some complete BS and catch you off guard.... or never heard of "Playing the player".... EXPLOITABLE Poker > GTO & sOLveRs 🤖🤖🤖🤖
What do you think about the caller's river decision?
I think it's right. Is villain "bluffing" with QJo simply because he has the queen of hearts? To specifically make AQ/KQ fold? I don't think QJo has enough fold equity. Is he bluffing Ah with an offsuit 2-5? Does he get there with those holdings? There just don't appear to be enough bluffs. The only other option is villain has complete crap (eg. JT/87/66), no hearts, and decided on the flop to pretend he has a flush draw.
That’s such an underbluffed spot most of the time, it’s usually a flush or boat
The only thing MAYBE is he’s overvaluing a worse queen when hero checks it over and he thinks he got the best hand, but then again you’d have to be worried about the flush right? so wouldn’t a worse queen check back? Seems like a middling flush or Q-10 off that would just call the pre flop raise, could be A-x of hearts
Really like barts breakdown of these hands. This is a tough spot for sure
I think it's a fold. I can't put the villain on any bluff where he has the Ace of Hearts and his other card isn't a heart. I don't think he's betting king queen off suit or queen jack off suit even though he has a heart.
Pocket 9s and pocket 8s are the most likely bluffs, but I don't think that the villain was definitely bluffing. I think the villain had a full house.
When you’re on the fence it’s best to save to fight another day.
pretty sick run-out.
No reveal doesn't bother me. Most players look at plays in a Vacuum. The reason Bart is now the only Poker-vlog I watch is because of the way he breaks hands down and views the decisions as a "Best Play over time" and not just highlight Wacky hands.
Amen
As a sub par low stakes player, I probably call mainly because guys at home games play KQ & QJ offsuit & would value bet that sizing on the river. Could easily have a flush too though 🤔 Interesting hand!
Nothing sub par about that, you're just talking good poker! The correct play is always dependent on your opponent and their particular range. If someone has a lot more random Qx in their range thanequilibrium, and especially if they're going to value bet random Qxs on this river than this becomes a trivial call. Some players are extreme in the other way, I've played with players I'd fold at least 22 here and maybe even 55 because they simply wouldn't bet less than a boat here.
He called a raise with Q-10 honey…
I did not comment when this first released. I do think some very important concepts are discussed, but I thought the primary decision was an easy one.
My biggest takeaway, and Bart did sort of touch on this, is the turn card. This is just essential for me. We are hand reading correct? The queen here is definitely not as good a card as it appears. Thing is; we want to be up against QX. The turn being a queen cuts the QX combos in half. Another way to look at it is that if V has QX; then it is 44 to 1 against the turn being a queen. We really need to adjust our read of V's range to mostly flush draws & sets. It's true he might have called flop with something like 88, but that gets less likely when he calls a decent size turn bet. The river card is brutal. The K or J of hearts are probably worse, but still.
As to how I would have played this; I thought hero did just fine, but I'd probably have chosen a bigger sizing on both flop & turn. I also sometimes check this turn card & go into more of a bluff catching mode.
Finally, I'm not sure I see an MDF situation here. It's true that high stakes players will sometimes go balanced/tricky here & check monsters on river, but not as often as one might think. So hero likely has the strongest, or very close, hand he ever arrives with. But this texture & action make MDF very dicey.
~15 combos of flushes, 12 combos of QT+, 6 combos of slowplayed sets turned boats..... and only a clown would call with a gutshot Ax wheel draw to bluff the river. Tough spot. Can't bet because worse won't call enough. Checking and praying seems like the only option.
Totally agree. There's just way too many hands that beat you, and not enough possible bluffs. The guy called 2 streets for big bets, he's probably not doing that with 77 and turning it into a bluff
Q
What are your 12 combos of QT+? There’s 0 combos of QTs available and even if he plays offsuit combos there’s only 3. 55 and 22 get you to 9, but I have discount those somewhat due to them not raising before the river.
@@BaadMotorFingerwasn’t a fan of the big bet sizing.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zjya but still not enough bluffs on this run out imo
Your comments at the end are so true Bart.
Are high level concepts really useful at low and mid stakes with low level competition? Being balanced against bad players is silly at best. Taking thin value induces bluffs and nukes your equity in spots like this. 🤦
Check raise turn, if villian checks check call river on any heart
Good content as usual. No reveal calls are okay with me, as poker is a metaphor for life, we don't always get full disclosure in every challenging situation. Keep up the great work Bart, this channel is one of my favorites.
Lol damn that's deep
I think I call half pot like that. But 75% or more i'm folding.
Good spot for turn overbet? Set up closer to pot size jam on river (this specific river might change the plan). Qx never folding. Pocket pairs might get sticky knowing we are polarizing with an overbet and we are never doing that with overpairs on this turn
Why do people complain about a lack of reveal? Like how often do you get a reveal in poker? This channel is about system thinking not results.
Yep. I also agree with Bart that sometimes a reveal taints your analysis. It's easy to see a bluff reveal in this spot and think, "well, of course! It was the perfect spot to bluff from!" without also thinking of the other side of that - which is that it's a great spot to bluff because so many _better hands_ can credibly get there. The check-fold here is perfectly fine. Turning AQ into a bluff in this spot is defensible, but it's not a move I can make, so I certainly don't blame anyone else for not making it.
MDF comes in, and I have mixed feelings on Call vs Fold. I don't have a problem with either play honestly. I think I would sigh call and muck the losing hand a lot here a lot of the time. Much of it would depend on my view of the villain's capabilities. It's really hard to much trips, but it is understandable here.
The other option I might go with, toss out is a 1/4 pot leadout bet on the river and fold on a jam. That just sounds so exploitable though over time.
Man when someone piles money in on the river on a paired board when I’m holding trips it is ALWAYS a boat. I’m getting shown a full house there 9/10 times in basically every 2-5 game I’ve ever played
Probably around zero EV. So no matter what would you do on the river, well played!
think the caller has a few sweaters to knit
lol
Love these videos so much even without the reveal
Nice fold… Amazing video! Please Bart Keep going with your channel… I love it!
I like the fold, you probably need to make sure you have some hands that are bet bet check defend but truthfully even if you play pretty unbalanced here it is not the easiest to exploit spot because BTN had to call pre and call flop so they really should have something.
Why not lead river with a blocker sizing here , maybe 350 and get paid by worse queen x and fold/reevaluate a jam by villain. It’s a private game, id say villain can certainly show up with other hands than a flush on the river.
@zlucadripz6314 because the front door flush getting there on the river is very polarizing. You're either facing a monster or nothing. I highly doubt a worse Q plays this way. It's better to check and brace for a bet. It makes it a lot easier to call a bluff after a check because you give rope to a player to bluff. And the call is far more likely to be more cost effective in case you're running into the monster.
I agree unless your opponent is capable enough to bluff raise blocker bets
Low stakes a Queen is checking almost every time in this spot so it just makes sense to check to them
Bluff shoving would be the gangsterplay here
If I am in the situation with AQ on that river and I check I feel it invites my opponent to bet regardless if he has the flush or not. For that reason I would probably bet a sizing just a little smaller than a block bet and then most likely fold to a raise.
Actually, I haven't seen it mentioned here, but villain's play here could very well come down to how he perceives the hero. If he's seen him fold before when a scare card comes off, then it's a no-brainer to try a bluff there for a few hundred to blow him off a big but non-flush/non-FH hand (which was pretty obvious when hero checked the river).
Bart didn’t think about hands the villain is over-valuing. I would call because some people over-value their trips. He could have had Qh-Kscd, thinking he was getting value from an over-pair or JJ.
If the player is competent, like the caller indicated, they probably would not over-value QX
Lol @ "Some people Over value trips ".. correct. That's why SOME players are Good poker players and MOST are awful...
Some players would do that, but from the caller's description of the villain, it's not likely that the villain is doing this.
I don't think villain ever has a boat with this line. Its either a flush or a worse hand.
@@Unhingedanduninformed As a poker player, you can never truly know how another player plays after only a few hours of playing with them. There've been many times in which I thought I was against a "competent" player who ended up making some stupid plays.
I would definitely call. You only lose to flushes (doesn’t feel like the Villain had pocket 5s, 2s or Ts). If Villain did have a flush, then so be it, but Hero cannot give credit for a flush every time the flush draw comes.
Q,10 beats him. But yeah this is a call. Villian bluffed it
On what street does the villain's play not seem like pocket 2s, 5s, or 10s?
@@gabrielrockmanthe turn with 22 or 55 would raise to inflate pot, to get it all in on river..
@@omarfromthewire603 A turn raise might chase out a lot of heart draws. Probably over pairs, too. I think just calling with a full house on the turn is fine.
@@skylertaylor7283 With what?
Skipped some parts of video. Seen too much crazy shit got to call
Tough spot, it's probably player dependent on if hero is good or not. The only worse hand he could be value betting is an offsuit Q, which might think it's good once the flush comes in, but is unlikely because of how many Qs are accounted for
8s or 9s are checking most of the time as they beat all bluffs and have some showdown value. I'm likely folding, but I also am aware I'm on the tighter side
I’m curious, do your callers take notes during their sessions of all their hands they play?
If hes gonna bet worse trips for value should call if not check fold seems fine
I think it will be good fold most of the time. Well done.
Tough spot for real. Especially if we think the guy has some decent skill but some flaws in his game still.
If he's worse than we think, he never doesn't have Flush+ here and fold is likely correct
If he's better, Call-Call-Call-ValueSizing from the button when the front door lands is a risky-but-possible bluff line if you have just a single heart, especially a big one, and we might should put in the call.
I think I'm in the camp where we need to lead the river around this sizing or slightly bigger ourselves. By checking we almost put up a neon sign saying "scared of flush" that a perceptive player might pick up on and put the pressure on us. By betting even when the flush lands, we can pressure smaller flushes that may think we have a bigger flush or boat.
If you are bankroll deficient, it's a good fold. If you have a substantial bankroll, then you have the ability to call to potentially win the pot and also gain vital information.
Interesting hand
How many times have you seen a hand like this and villain has A10, K10 with a heart, slow played over pairs, under pairs, A5 with Ace of hearts and, of course a ton of weaker Queens. Remember when a Q shows up on the turn he's thinking it's unlikely you have a queen now. To fold this river when you only need to be right 1 in 5 times is madness. Remember even the craziest bluff only needs to get through 25 % of the time by villain to be successful. Congratulations, he can now do this 3 more times with impunity.
I’m probably doing a lot of folding on the river. Think it’s an underbluffed spot, and Qx may go thinner
I’m a rookie, so I have no idea, if it’s a good fold.. but since I’m a rookie and I wanted to call, probably indicates it’s a good fold..
Reveal doesn’t bother me.
As played, I think it’s close, but yeah, it’s a fold unfortunately. If hearts missed it’s a turbo call though.
Is villian ever betting kq or jq for value here ? Hero checked river which kinda ruled out flush or boat as bart discussed .
I think I fold there and die inside a little bit
Agree with Bart that a "reveal" is somewhat secondary to the strategy discussion. In this instance, arguments for calling or folding are both plausible. It comes down to a player's individual disposition, which may be affected by his bankroll. If $625 is a day's pay, calling makes sense. If $625 is a week's pay, folding makes sense. How it "turned out" is mooted by Hero's prior choice anyway.
Very tough decision on the river.
How come they never mentioned what Q is missing .. the Q of hearts. Surprised
Good video
It's a good fold and I would have called.
Spazzed 77 😮
Wtf no reveal 😂
I'm only kidding. I totally agree about reveals.
We are trying noy to be results oriented so the reveal isn't always crucial
The results of the have doesn’t matter. Talking about what each side does each street is what it’s all about.
I love how Bart always says he’ll get flak in the comments for no reveal hands yet you check the comments and there’s hardly ever a single one. (None as of time of me posting for this video)
Q9❤?
Non reveals are the worst
The reveal doesn’t matter. In the long run, Villain will show up with their range.
If you’re here to learn … no reveal don’t matter 🎉
Without block betting river, you're really opening yourself up to bets from all SORTS of hands including value hands, value-owned hands, and pure bluffs. Without block betting, you're completely underrepping the strength of your hand on the river and essentially giving up because the FD flush gets there. Arent we not supposed to be scared of monsters under the bed?
You check and give opponent too much power, and thus you should call River.
Haven't watched the video yet..but in some situations don't you just have to know your opponent is on a flush draw and when the flush draw comes in you're kinda forced to give up. It's not like you can some how rep a better flush all of a suddenly lol
He could have QJ-Q8 and think you have over pair
This one seems to be splitting opinion. I think I have to call here against a competent player.
What's the point of showing a hand without a reveal,😁
Flame
too many bluffs - 43s, A3 or A5, 66-99
so sick of these nit callers. scared money dont make money
The guy prolly had aq of heart an was freeroling
Repost
What i absolutely LOVE about poker today, is ALLLLL YOU PEOPLE actually believe EVERYONE PLAYS THE SAME 🤣🤣🤣 you guys have ZERO CLUE who villian is, how he plays, his bluff frequency, you havnt seen any of his showdown hands, you dk how much money he has in life and if he cares AT ALL about $625 on a river bluff after he sensed weakness and is IP ...... fkng LOVE IT !!!! "SoLvEr aPpRoVeD !!!!" 🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤦♂️🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖
"He doesn't have this "...."he never has ...." ......."His range is..."
Ya bro, his range could be 27o-AA ... and he could've had 37o with no heart... just played you IN POSITION... it's like you guys never even played poker and saw someone showdown some complete BS and catch you off guard.... or never heard of "Playing the player".... EXPLOITABLE Poker > GTO & sOLveRs 🤖🤖🤖🤖
Reveals are not necessary
Anyone who cries about there being a no reveal is missing the point lol. Stop being results oriented and learn the thought process.
You miss the point
It's a tough spot. I'd flip a coin. The reveal is irrelevant. He'll have a flush sometimes, and Ah for a bluff sometimes too
What Ah are you expecting him to show up with after he calls 2/3 pot on flop and turn?
Smells like TT
I don’t think I could’ve folded here. My guess is he turned a hand like 88 or 99 into a bluff