Institutionalized: The Story of State Hospitals
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- Опубліковано 27 тра 2022
- Researched, written, directed, shot, and edited by Anthony Ericsson.
Narrated by Jacob Sorensen.
Voice Cast:
Jacob Sorensen - Philippe Pinel
Spencer Kenawell - William Tuke
Claire Morse - Dorothea Dix
Anthony Ericsson - Thomas Story Kirkbride
Emmi Kilgallen - Nellie Bly
Morgan Hartwell - Horace Mann
Abridged List of Sources:
The Mad Among Us: A History of the Care of America’s Mentally Ill, by Gerald Grob
Gracefully Insane: The Rise and Fall of America’s Premier Mental Hospital, by Alex Beam
Ten Days in a Mad-House, by Nellie Bly
On the Construction, Organization, and General Arrangements of Hospitals for the Insane, by Thomas Story Kirkbride
The State Schools of Massachusetts by Katherine Anderson
The Great Pretender by Susannah Cahalan
Abandoned America: Dismantling the Dream by Matthew Christopher
Belchertown State School by Katherine Anderson
Danvers State Hospital by Katherine Anderson & Robert Duffy
Northampton State Hospital by J. Michael Moore & Anna Schuleit Haber
Norwich State Hospital by Christine Rockledge
Allentown State Hospital by Steven Royer
Long Island State Hospitals by Joseph M. Galante
Westborough State Hospital by Katherine Anderson
Tewksbury State Hospital by Ashlynn Rickord Werner & Jon Maynard
History of the Walter E Fernald Developmental Center by Marie E. Daly
On Being Sane in Insane Places by David L. Rosenhan
Dorothea Dix; or, the Voice of a Maniac by Sonya Michel
Belchertown State School Friends
National Library of Medicine
Library of Congress
Digital Commonwealth
Asylum Postcards
National Library of Medicine
Peabody Institute Library
danversstateinsaneasylum.com
Special Thanks To:
Mr. Anthony DiBenedetto
Waltham Public Library
Preston Public Library
Linda Christensen & the Preston Historical Society
Sean Nugent & the Preston Redevelopment Authority
Jason Allard / Uncommon Sense Media
Antiquity Echoes
Back when I was a troubled teenager, a psychiatrist diagnosed me with schitzophrenia and recommended to my parents that I be placed in a mental hospital. My parents refused to do this and went private for a second opinion. I was given a cat scan, a pet scan and an mri scan. I did not have schitzophrenia. Five years ago, I finally discovered exactly what I did have; autism. Sadly, mental health care is still not as it should be in the modern era.
The first time autism was ever mentioned as a diagnosis, it was considered a subset of schizophrenia. A lot of the statistics from asylum-era “treatment” that cite schizophrenic patients, actually also include people with autism. The connection between the diagnoses was seen as the low empathy. I am glad that you were able to treatment that was more helpful for you. Just wanted to provide some historical context on how narrow that difference was considered to be in the past!
What is a cat and pet scanner? 😔
@@laino-mn7ku types of brain scan.
I was thrown in Mississippi State hospital and falsely diagnosed with schizophrenia. When asking them if a brain scan can detect it or not I was told "no". I was then made to go to an outpatient facility called LifeCore and was told in secrecy (not knowing she was being recorded) by the therapist that she didn't find me to be schizophrenic.
@@elizabethcurley7654Yes! I came here to say this. Autism' was classified as a psychotic disorder, and they would label it as a subset of schizophrenia.
I'm an Autistic psychology student w a penchant for psychiatric research so it's nice seeing others who know their stuff.
I spent 3 years in a CA state mental hospital (severe depression), and the care was excellent. When the university hospital I had been in for 4 months got tired of trying to help someone who didn’t want to be alive, I was sent there fully expecting something like “Cuckoo’s Nest”. Wrong. Thanks to Reagan closing most of the state hospitals in CA, and lack of funding closing many other hospitals, there is now a huge shortage of mental health beds. Patients have so many rights that it is almost impossible to commit someone against their will now-even if they are psychotic or suicidal. There has to be a middle ground, somewhere.
There are still long term "treatment" psych hospitals that are HORRIBLE. My daughter was admitted to one in March. It took threats by myself to get the police if they did not release her. They started her on 5 new drugs without any official diagnosis! This messed up her mind even more. They are in it for the money only. This is Willowcreek Hospital in Wisconsin. Beware!
They closed most of state hospitals..then the problems started. Some are dual diagnosis. Mental health and or drug alcohol. Mental health system needs a complete over all. I've seen homeless mentally I'll elderly ppl with medical issues.
@@cathymurraythey closed them, because of horrible abuse, abhorrent conditions, and neglect. They had people in dirty conditions being tortured, frozen, and starved to death. Their treatments often left people permanently disabled, or directly killed them. What do you know about the hospitals before they closed them? They’ve also since opened up more. There’s still deaths covered up, and leaked footage of abuse from these places.
I’ve been hospitalized in California, and can assure you it’s very easy to have someone committed. I had a quick conversation on an iPad in a psych ward after being 51/50 and they automatically extended everyone’s times there. The same with the state I live in. There’s no objective standards needed, and the psychiatrist practically automatically wins when it comes to commitment and ordering drugs.
Agreed. Now patients have rights. There are patients advocates, ethics committees, surveillance cameras and other things in place for patients protection. We need somewhere to send the many insane people out here. A lot of them end up in prison.
Insurance companies will never allow patients to go to a nice hospital and get well
I worked at a big old State hospital way back when I was a teenager in high school, as a "dietary aide" meaning I worked in the kitchen. It was Dixmont State Hospital, founded in 1848 by Dorthea Dix. Dixmont began as the Insane Department of the Western Pennsylvania Hospital in Pittsburgh. This hospital was the first chartered public hospital in Pittsburgh and the first institution in Western Pennsylvania to offer treatment for the insane. I worked there, back in the 1970's. The patients who could walk, would come into the cafeteria, and go through the kitchen line to get their food. The patients had a curious interest in us youngsters. They would seek us out to look at and to talk to. Looking back, I now understand that they were remembering their own youth, it was our upbeat, happy, sincere, carefree teenage attitudes and our normal laughter and chatter that they enjoyed watching. It probably brought back memories for them. There were the old ladies in their house dresses, the Vietnam Vets who flirted with us, the fortune telling lady who could read your palm, your cards or your tea leaves. There was the man that was put in there by his step mother after his mother died when he was a teenager, and he was forced to have a lobotomy. His name was Al. Al was famous for coming after us and begging for a cigarette over and over. He was harmless, but relentless. I could go on and on about all the different people I grew to know that were patients there. There is a place for these State hospitals, and I believe State hospitals should be reintroduced back into our society. It provides a safe community for a certain type of mentally ill patient. These types of asylums do not exist any longer and they should. Society has not improved because they are gone. When they released all the patients, many of them had lost touch with their families and had no place to go to, so they wandered back to the abandoned grounds of the old State hospital and hid out wherever they could. Others started living on the streets, if they couldn't find any relatives to take them in.
There still are state hospitals. There’s videos leaked about the poor conditions and violence that takes place. At the hands of staff, and more violent patients. That was a sumner job, or after school? There were many employees who were high school students?
Get the man a cigarette
@@yourdeadtome3 Exactly! I had to buy cigarettes as a 15 year old so Al could have a ciggy!! Al was forced to have a lobotomy by his stepmom and was forever childlike, but liked his cigs and liked the young girls, like me back then!!
@@KaylaMarie-ox8le - No there are very few. There are mental wards at hospitals. Plus, no one can commit you , except a doctor or the jail you’re in. The beds are limited and most don’t have any room. The rest are private facilities. Look it up.
So, no easy access State hospitals for the insane do not exist. A State hospital = free care. Since the overwhelming majority, now, are privately owned( often by Christian churches) they are a patient paid hospital. They cost money! Even if you have the money, you can’t get a bed for your mentally I’ll relative. It’s a travesty!! We need the State hospitals again in large quantities and easily accessible!!
i recently spent time in a psychiatric ward and it was horrible. i wasn’t allowed visitors even though i was promised them, i was told i needed to take mood stabilisers or i wouldn’t be allowed to leave. i was not treated for my eating disorder. there was group therapy promised and there was barely any. and when there was it was narcotic addiction focused, i was in there for a suicide attempt. i lied to get out because i hated it so much. they did not help me, they made me worse.
Same here, my friend. i was institutionalized for different stuff, eventually force injected because i wasn't taking my meds outside the hospital. Tapering now, just hoping I'm back to my old self after all that even if im back in a new way. The "mentally ill" are highly stigmatized and treated like goddamn animals, but we are not alone, we are not animals, we are STRONG!
I am sorry, that sounds awful. I hope things are going well for you now 🙏
Typical.
@@jak3589 your mom is typical lool
@lindhorstellie my mom is passed away. Your insensitivity is not appreciated. My mother has nothing to do with the conversation in the first place. Grow up!
I think these places should be revived, to an extent, for extreme cases, and people who are unable to take care of themselves. Maybe some of the homeless problem would be solved
THERE ARE A GOOD MANY MENTALLY ILL PEOPLE CAN'T LIVE OUTSIDE THE WALLS THEY NEED CARE 24/7 THEY CAN GET THEIR MEDS
In th mid-eighties Reagan deregulated the banks giving them permission to extort last, security deposit, and credit score in order rather than ONLY A MONTH'S RENT to put a roof over our heads.
THE BANKS ARE COMPLETELY RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS HOMELESS CRISIS- especially 2008 when they scammed BILLIONS FROM our taxes and send millions to their graves through exposure to the elements!
Get your facts straight! Plus creepy puppet Reagan sent nearly 1/2 of these citizens in institutes out on the streets! I remember very well!
We need congress to do something, people with thoughts to kill, should never be released. Mental health is a major problem in this country! Time to reopen the asylums and get the dangerous ones off the streets..
As a disabled person, I can tell you that people resent taking care of other humans. They eventually abuse them. I've been repeatedly abused by people who claim to want to care for me. It's inevitable
You don’t know what you are saying.
They released all the patients, to live on the streets, mental health needs an upgrade. And we need to get the people with mental problems in to safe facilities! Throwing medication 💊 at them, and not monitoring them is not the answer…
I think the problem is the one size fits all approach. There needs to be many different styles of facilities for people who need support. From those who are a danger to other, themselves, to group houses, schools for scensory needs...
The ones on the streets believe it or not choose to be there
I agree it is a revolving door our patients keep coming back we don’t cure them
And they can't afford the medication and won't stay on it when they're out on the streets. They will do drugs instead.
@@jolenehendrickson8915 no one chooses to live on the streets. They are too sick to make the right decisions for themselves.
JFK’s sister had a lobotomy which caused great damage. This is why he fought hard to improve the conditions in these institutions.
I was in the state hospital in Texas between October 1971 thru April 1972. It was hell on earth. People have no conception of how horrible it truly was. One flew over the cookoos nest didn’t hold a candle to what I lived through
I was in a state mental hospital when I was 16 y o, 1979 or 1980 upstate NY.
I had purposely overdosed and was locked up put in straight jacket tied to a bed and we all had to stay in a large room with guards. I agree it was hell on earth. I had to hire a lawyer before they would let me out. Oh and they put me on meds that were made for ppl that had schizophrenia. I think jail would have been easier.
I'm very sorry you went through that. God bless you. May the rest of your life be peaceful and happy.
My mother had schizophrenia. She was in and out of a Texas mental hospital, thru most of the 70's. As a child, it scared the hell out of me.
Know the feeling. I was in mental hospital for severe eating disorder for over 6 months and yes it was hell. I suffered nightmares for years and still do sometimes and it made my illness worse not better
@@tracyshaffer4510 yes hell on earth. I was also force fed and restrained
One random day I came across Byberry Mental Hospital. I became OBSESSED with reading about its history and the horrors went on there. I live right outside of Philadelphia so anytime I find something that happened in Philly I’m even more interested. I got a book called “The Philadelphia State Hospital at Byberry: A History of Misery and Medicine”. Haverford State Hospital was within walking distance of my house. I couldn’t imagine being in one of these places. I also read Nellie Bly’s “Ten Days in a Madhouse” which is also so unbelievable to read. From reading these I can across Dr.Walter Freeman - The Lobotomist. It was pure torture. No wonder these brutal treatments “worked”. If someone is going to hammer icepicks into my eyeballs I’m going to stop doing whatever it is that got me there.
Sounds like a retard house
Very well done and respectful. There are still a lot of problems. A large amount of homeless in Los Angeles are comprised of the mentally ill. There need to places where the can live, have mild supervision, and get the help the need to maintain health and safety for all.
One of the reasons California has so many homeless could stem from places like Nashville buying 900 one way tickets to San Diego for the homeless with long criminal records. It is called the Homeward Bound program. I guess that did not work to their satisfaction or quick enough.
Starting July 1st the State of Tennessee passed a law criminalizing homelessness. If you are caught sleeping or camping on any public property or parks anywhere in the state you can be sentenced up to 6 years in prison and a $3000 fine. Are we just going to start building detainment camps? First the poor. The disabled and the elderly could very well be next.
@Veronica Elis what? It's a major talking point of every politician up for running in CA. And we HAVE programs, we have been making progress, but you can't just snap your fingers and fix a societal issue. Why do you think people end up on the street? There are so many individual reasons that one single politician isn't going to solve it. Are you doing something about it? Probably not, but it's easier to make it someone else's problem isn't it?
@@victorianmelody46 p9
@@victorianmelody46 ëëëëëë l
@@victorianmelody46 Meanwhile, our taxpayer money is being used to give illegal immigrants free healthcare, food/drink, clothes, housing, etc.
We need these back, we have a serious mental health crisis in the 1st World
Well yes…but the state hospitals shouldn’t be like 4:58 they were during the height of their popularity.
@@RajaMCool no I agree, abuse isn't the answer, but then we went the extreme the other way
State run psychiatric facilities still exist. They are even in the same locations. They have been renamed. They are violent dreadful "hospitals ". I have worked in them. Our mental health services need so much improvement even after all these years.
The word autistic replaced retard...
Mental illness is a Big problem, we can’t just release people on the streets,they are not getting the care they need! It’s up to us to force the state facilities to stay clean, loving places for the patients to get the care they desperately need! No more killers on the street. Stand up and make it right!
What country are you in? Not in the USA patients aren't treated like that unless criminally insane
@@jolenehendrickson8915 Not true. In some state run facilities there is abuse to patients by staff and/or other patients, in part due to inadequate staffing in terms of the number of them and how well trained they are.
@@jolenehendrickson8915 definitely in the US. State run hospital are very different from private hospitals.
I built the buildings at the Danvers State Hospital site. Also, my crew had the spooky task of boarding up all the tunnels underneath the grounds. Sheathing a 21.5 pitch roof at that height was INSANE! Let's just say there were a few "close calls". 😳
Wow
What we're the tunnels about?
Converted to condos
If you built Danvers state you must be very, very, very old.
There's a movie showing Danvers State Hospital called "Session 9"...supposed to be a haunted horror movie... I rented it by accident years ago
A 21.5 pitch roof…now that’s a pain in the ass!
I have been in and through countless asylums over the decades. The paperwork and documentation Left Behind is staggering.
Treatments, shortages in food and staffing, overpopulation, patient abuse, staff abuse and everything you can think of. Some of it is heartbreaking to read.
You did an awesome job on this one brother
We need them now. Our streets are full of people who need to be there
Let's tidy up! Let's feel better! Our state Legislators will get right on it!
Europe does not have masses of homeless like we do in say skid row LA. why? They don't have asylums either. But they do have socialised medical care where people with mental health problems are treated before they fall off the deep end. Locking people away in asylums is just hiding the problem, how about we get to the root of the problem. It's just bad government policy.
No, we don’t need that shit back!!
I barely survived my seven fucking years in them! Not to mention the 13 years of drug addiction, mental illness, homelessness and incarceration once old Reagan threw us all out on to the streets!
I’m going to say this as politely as I can….
SIT THE FUCK DOWN!
You have NO IDEA what you are talking about!
My grandmother spent a great deal of time in St Elizabeth in DC...she had schizophrenia and epilepsy.. and endured a number of sessions of electric shock therapy.. which sadly causes seizures... It was a hamster on a wheel
Same thing with my mother--schizophrenia and epilepsy.
Shock therapy too
My father told me very young that he could have me sent there if I ever made him angry. I had a great aunt in an institution. In those days, if you had any issues, they "farmed" you out to somewhere else, lest the neighbors think badly about the family. *fume* I was finally introduced to her. She seemed sweet and simple. The facility was a NIGHTMARE and that was even while family was visiting. I can't help but to think how much better a life she would have had staying with family, (maybe not MY family) nstead of being institutionalized in childhood. It was made clear to me in toddlerhood that If I was not capable of keeping up, I would be discarded. I was told as a child I was "a retard", my father even told the school. They gave me tests. IQ of 138. The damage was done; as I still thought of myself as an idiot, my father told me so. Him hearing the test results only made him DOUBLED DOWN. I should have realized at that point that I wasn't dealing with a reasonable person. It took a long time to realize what was "abuse" and what was "true."
It's horrible what they did to your aunt! Did you read what happened to President Kennedy's sister Rosemary? They gave her a lobotomy just because she was mentally disabled. If she developed any issues-anger, sadness- it was because she realised that people were treating her badly and tried to fight back to defend herself.
@@virginiaconnor8350 I just saw a documentary on Rosemary Kennedy. I was so shocked that so prominent would allow their daughter to be treated this way. Poor girl. Lobotomies were pure torture. Left permanent trauma for the person...if they survived and was coherent. I read somewhere that they still actually do lobotomies in different regions of the world!
Reminds me of the movie, 'Girl Interrupted' so sad. I'm sorry you were treated like that by your father. There is no room for anyone to down play what you have gone thru and the trauma it has permanently caused you.
My heart hurts for you reading your comment. It’s horrid how cruel humans can be to one another.
My sister worked at Missouri State mental hospital in Vernon County, sometimes i would visit her at work. She was always nice to patients, but kept a bar of soap inside a tube sock in her pocket for self defence. I was 16yrs old when visiting one day when a pretty blonde girl took off her clothes & offered me sex, my sister "soaped-her-good"
It's horrible what Mental Hospitals turned into and the same with Nursing Homes! Their solution was to close the Mental Hospitals that was so wrong. They are needed now.
They care less about patients, & more about spend less $$
My aunt was put in Hawthornden State hospital NE Ohio around 1966 when she was only 16/17 years old likely for seizures she had. She was there for a year and raped by an orderly resulting in pregnancy, her baby died after birth. She reported the rape to staff, being hystrical, they put her in a straight jacket for a few days. Once released of the jacket, she escaped. She did not know who raped her because it was night and dark. Justice was never served.
I have ADD and I found your editorial to be articulate, interesting and easy to listen to and absorb. I especially appreciate that there is no background music. Great work you are doing here. I wish these people had more advocates and I hope your work helps to change the system.
I also CANNOT stand what is referred to as background "MUSIC."
I retired from a mental health facility in St.Louis and they have so much oversight it's crazy. A state team comes in 4x a month to check the charts and to make sure their rights are not violated.
I retired in 2019
We need these back. They needef better funding and more oversight. Instead of locking up the troubled we have locked ourselves up
My sister has Cerebral palsy and was put in a state hospital at age 6. The doctor of those days early 60s said she should be there. My mom was single with 5 other kids did that. My sister was neglected and abused. It was horrible in there.
Just for CP? I was born in an Army hospital in Germany in '55 with Cretinism. The dr. there told my parents to put me in an institution as I'd never get any better. The American dr. disagreed and started to give me thyroid. I started improving and except for having a LD, I was doing better in school, attending regular classes-except for mathematics-and later attended college, graduating from GSU with a BA in '87. The main problem l had was with people's attitudes towards me-many didn't believe I could even go to college nor did they even bother asking any of my professors. I might not have been on any Dean's List or in any Sorority, but I had no regrets going to college because I was happier than I'd been in a long time because I proved that dr. back then wrong.
My best friend Kelly has mild CP, but wasn't born til '64, so she might've had a better outcome. She now has 3 college degrees, drives a car (I have had visual problem and couldn't afford a car anyway and was used to walking, riding my 10 speed road bike, or riding public transit), is married, and has a son who goes to the same college we met at then). Still, when she tries to get a job, those with lesser education, and experience get the job. I guess the old invisible signs still hangs on the walls of many businesses; "No Disabled Need Apply, Don't Even Try" despite the laws said to protect those w/disabilities, especially in small towns and colleges who rejected my friend from going into teaching (she wasn't event given the chance to take the TCT, but pushed into changing her majour while a girl who didn't do so greatly was allowed to enter because she could push the race card). Now, her big ordeal is that her dad has Alzheimer's now and she's still applying for a para-professional job. I hope it's not too late. She's almost 58 and my dad was pushed into retirement at 62-63 (age discrimination).
Note: my sister is total care. She is celebrating her 64th birthday at a group home where she lives. The drs said she would not live past 5! She went to adult daycare for 30 years and she called it work. Rarely did she miss a day! Put pegs in holes! Thank god THIS group home is better but not without flaws.
My friend Mary has Cp she is in her 80s she has lived in Hospitals, Hospitals Schools since she was a baby and now a Nursing Home for the past 30 years. They treat her like she is mentally handicapped instead of physically disabled and it upsets me a lot. The Hospital School yanked all her teeth out so it doesn’t help her speach impediment like at all and I absolutely hate the way the nursing staff looks at her and treats her because she is one of the nicest sweetest most well meaning people I have ever met. I met her through my Friend Nancy who had MD, I worked for her for about 5 years taking care of her until she died in January we were super close but she went to the hospital school with Mary but Mary was like 15-20 years older than her she just still lived at the Hospital School when Nancy and her Sister Sheila went there when they were little they were Identical twins with Muscular Dystrophy.
Wow you guys! Thanks for your stories! The group home is not turning her every 2 hours so she was hospitalized because her dr was cautious because of sepsis. It’s an infection not an open wound but isn’t that neglectful?
this is the only documentary on this subject I have seen that has even touched on the fact that a huge portion of the former patients ended up on the streets or in prisons. It seems that our leaders that campaign on mental health issues or homelessness skip right over this fact. Wether they choose to not address this or are quite literally uninformed and in the dark something has to be done. Maybe there are no right answers, but what was done in the past nor what we have done to correct the past are solutions that can be seen as the right path by any stretch of the imagination.
I watched a documentary on the history of mental health care in the UK, and a similar situation occurred when the country decided it would be better for institutionalised patients to go back into their communities under the care of a GP or family. Obviously cutting costs to the state was a huge factor for bureaucrats, but there were many professionals who thought people would be happier and better cared for in the community. Unfortunately it never works out that way, and hundreds of people ended up homeless or between homes; some ended up in prison; others just struggled to cope with basic responsibilities, and a few went on to commit acts of violence. It's such a complex situation, I have depression, anxiety and ADHD, and even in Australia where we have more affordable healthcare, the mental health services are woeful and it's taken me over a decade to find some decent help.
There is an old asylum by me, when they closed they literally just let all the patients out onto the street if they had somewhere to go or not
We indeed have gone from one extreme (state facilities) to the other (jail or the community).
My 40 yr old severely autistic son lives in a 'state school'. Things have changed drastically. I compare it to living in an in- patient rehab type center or a good quality nursing home. It's clean, he's well fed & well cared for (I visit often) - there's lots of activities and even employment for those that can work. I'm so thankful this facility exists, I don't know what we would do without it.
To clarify, the facility my son lives in is for developmentally delayed individuals. The population in the area with mental illness are in a different location - but equally as modern and up to code.
I'm in America. My uncle has developmental and muscular delays due to lack of oxygen at birth. He was a second twin birth. He grew up and lived with his parents and siblings until his mom was too elderly and he was starting to want to be more independent. He now lives in a house with roommates similar to him and carers. He also has his siblings that visit him and take him out on trips alot too. 🥰 I remember being told that my grandmother was told to put him in an institution back when he was a baby. My grandmother refused. She raised 6 kids.
That’s what every state should have caring facilities, to give people the special care they need! God bless, have a great day!
Just off the subject a bit but I heard during covid 19 lockdowns they were not letting family visit residents in home. Is this true? I would hope not as that could be very damaging for the resident and family members .
@@kathleengivant-taylor2277 yes, that was true. I work in an Illinois mental health facility and during COVID, they couldn’t go anywhere and couldn’t have any visitors.
@@kathleengivant-taylor2277if they think people are going to forget about those times they are mistaken. Many suffered and died alone unnecessarily. No healing, no forgiveness. The only consequences are for victims… for now.
Well done on this documentary! You had my attention for the whole video
My mom worked at Hudson River State Hospital when I was a child in the 60s-early 70s. Just the gothic architecture still haunts me. I hated going to her job to pick her up. I remember it well.
So jealous I love the the gothic architecture
@@Napoleonwilson1973 It’s being torn down. But as a small kid it was scary!!!! Pretty much right on the Hudson River!
@@indigomoon777 yes I bet it was
These places are needed to keep mental illness under control! I agree, they need to make the outside of the building inviting. With a pritty color.
@@cjphillips6648 yes and these days cameras can be put in to help stop and deter abuse of the patients. Mental illness isn't something someone chooses. It's a disability, a sickness and needs to be viewed as such. People shouldn't be judged for it negatively. They are sick.
Well done and impartial brief documentary. Good intentions and then the realities of practical application falling tragically short. Yes, the problems continue today and seem not to be generally answerable. PTSD. Chronic homelessness. Drug addiction. Efforts to help do not make a difference with many individuals not wanting to participate with what is offered. Although, some people do benefit.
For close to 20 years I worked as a social worker at our state mental hospital. It has its roots in the old history and I thought it might be mentioned in your documentary, but no. It is very similar to your examples. The old buildings have mostly been destroyed and replaced now with "newer" construction, yet ironically in an archaic old world spiderweb shaped prison form. Our hospital has continued due to court commitments secondary to dangerousness/crimes against others. Commitments are mostly indefinite in length. An increase in patient rights has an unintended backlash effect where the staff working there have to deal with violence against them with no real world consequences for those patient behaviors. An increase in predominance of personality disordered individuals and where lawyers tell their clients they are "getting them off" with an "insanity plea" creates a toxic environment for staff and other patients. Good intentions and realities remain in a shifting chronic state of conflict...
Starts out with a Lie, British had Mental Hospitals Way Before America. You fucking liar! I spent 30 Years in State Hospitals, 1959-1990 and You are distorting and making HATE SPEECH your value. Goddamn your soul -basterd.
Starts out with a Lie, British had Mental Hospitals Way Before America. You fucking liar! I spent 30 Years in State Hospitals, 1959-1990 and You are distorting and making HATE SPEECH your value. Goddamn your soul -basterd.
Most states eliminated the "insanity plea" after John Hinckley, Jr. shot President Reagan. The new plea is "guilty due to mental defect" or similar wording, the person gets the exact same prison sentence that he would get if he were sane but supposedly the prison has to provide psychiatric treatment. In reality it is only medication that is used to treat mental illnesses in prison, not counseling. Medication is very important but some need to see a psychiatrist regularly as well. Many of the mentally ill in prisons also receive unofficial "therapy" from their fellow inmates which is so harrowing that I can't even describe it here without losing my YT account.
Typical thought process of a social worker. Such a useless bunch.
We need to reopen insane asylum. We know so much more about it now.
There are still psychiatric hospitals.
They have closed down these hospitals because these people do not have health insurance and they were being treated criminally… The government still does not believe in mental healthcare to this day and there’s no way to fund these places
@@samikay9599not enough to properly serve the population
This comes down to the question of who controls it, my definition and your definition of who belongs their differ, and you definitely can't rely on the government to determine this
This is very well done, I must admit. I was not expecting such a great and detailed watch. Thank you for making this documentary. I do hope it becomes a popular video to watch for all.
Starts out with a Lie, British had Mental Hospitals Way Before America. You fucking liar! I spent 30 Years in State Hospitals, 1959-1990 and You are distorting and making HATE SPEECH your value. Goddamn your soul -basterd.Starts out with a Lie, British had Mental Hospitals Way Before America. You fucking liar! I spent 30 Years in State Hospitals, 1959-1990 and You are distorting and making HATE SPEECH your value. Goddamn your soul -basterd.Starts out with a Lie, British had Mental Hospitals Way Before America. You fucking liar! I spent 30 Years in State Hospitals, 1959-1990 and You are distorting and making HATE SPEECH your value. Goddamn your soul -basterd.Starts out with a Lie, British had Mental Hospitals Way Before America. You fucking liar! I spent 30 Years in State Hospitals, 1959-1990 and You are distorting and making HATE SPEECH your value. Goddamn your soul -basterd.
I recently went to Massachusetts and visited the old Danvers campus. It's a private apartment/condo complex now, and, really, only the façade remains, but it's a heavy and hallowed place. It's beautiful and was a very moving experience, especially after having admired it's grandeur and studied its history for so long. It's on Kirkbride Dr. Gave me chills.
If your ever in Mass again a good one to visit is Foxboro State Hospital it’s a beautiful campus that’s now mostly condos but it still has an imposing facade. I drove by it and instantly knew it was an old mental hospital.
@@samsalamander8147not far from Foxboro is the Medfield State hospital. It’s now a state park and nothing has been redeveloped. It’s as it was when it was closed and boarded up. The grounds are maintained and have plaque’s around with info about the buildings.
Dorothea Dix is one of my heroes. Thank you for including her contributions. Many leave her out.
Clara Barton and Dorothea Dix are my heroes they are why I chose to study medicine.
Fascinating history. I had a schizophrenic aunt, who spent many years in and out of state mental institutions. She was beautiful, and a talented artist, but spent a miserable, disjointed life because of her mental illness. She would come stay with us during good mental periods, and we kids adored her. She would do arts and crafts with us and was fun and charming. But, ultimately, it always ended with violent outbursts, even threatening my mom with a knife. Away she would go again. The stress on the family was huge, trying to care for someone they love, but, who, at times, was literally bouncing off walls, screaming constantly, and destroying the house. It's awful and I think about my mom, trying to raise a big bunch of kids and trying to do what is right for a very much-loved sister. My aunt told me, much later, some of the good things, and the horrendous things that happened to her in those institutions, many years before. Mental illness is still very prevalent. It is a terrible situation, and so sad for all concerned.
I used to hang out at Maple Manor in Crown Point, Indiana in the 90s. It was a poor farm until they got a new building maybe 1914. Then an insane asylum with a jail. Probably in the 70s it was a old folks home but the county sold it in the late 80s. My friend was the maintenance man. The new owner wanted him to live there so it didn't get vandalized. Him an my sister in law lived there for 3 years. We had so much fun. Everything was left there. We had a big Halloween party in 92. Decorated for 3 months. Got to take whatever we wanted too. It was a scary place. We had a shower there and when we were decorating these 2 metal doors that were chained shut started opening an closing as far as the chain would let them. Me an Sue got the heck out of there! Didn't go back till daylight to finish. The owner kicked out my friends and 2 weeks later he tried to burn part of it down because it cost to much to tear it down an the firemen came in and there was a backdraft and the whole thing burnt down. It was so sad. I saw it on TV an couldn't believe it. The owner was real mad at the firemen and left an ran a firetruck off the road. When the Maple Manor sign fell off the top there was a cement sign under it. Lake County Insane Asylum. That sign broke in 3 pieces so my friend took it to his house and put it back together and made it a sidewalk. Great video. Thanks
This is a wonderful documentary. As someone with mental health issues, I applaud how you treated the subject with professionalism and kindness. I hope to see more doucmentaries from you.
My grandma died of cancer in Arizona state hospital. She lost her mind after her 11 yr old son was killed by Evo Deconcini a former Arizona Judge and Surgeon General. The grave was paid for . It was the day after Christmas. He was drunk . He never had any consequence’s legally and the injustice and loss I’m sure led to her mental state. But no one ever pieced that together. She was 52.
I lived beside a mental institution growing up. My parents worked there for over 30 yrs. I use to go visit them at work, the things I heard and saw were unreal. After they shut it down and built the new one, some of the patients were released to go out on their own. That was several yrs ago and a few of them are still on the streets today..
Do you mind sharing any of the things you heard and saw there? I’m curious about it.
There was a lot of screaming and yelling, throwing things. I also watched a patient drag another patient down the hall while they were peeing themselves. I could see the institute from our home and some of the patients knew my mom and dad very well. It wasn't nothing for some of them to walk out of the yard and show up at our door looking for something to eat. My dad worked on the most violent ward and fought on a regular basis. I could see thru the years the mental and stressful effect it had on their lives. Later on in life I myself worked there on the substance abuse ward and decided I wouldn't spend anymore time there that was necessary. Some of the baddest dudes in town were brought there on a drunken spree's, things could get bad real quick... All in all it was a violent, depressing sad place to be. Humanity like you've never seen before, worse than the movies.....
Wow, i can’t even imagine. Thanks for sharing.
I left a LOT out and You are so welcome...
I've been thinking they need reopened with all the extreme homeless problems. Find some kind of hand production work to stay occupied. Maybe that would keep down the weird stuff from happening.
I worked in a state mental hospital in the 90s. It was home to 103 adult women.
This was interesting. I lived 2 1/2 years in a private psychiatric hospital as a teenager in Hawaii. We need to continue to educate the public about behavioral health illnesses and destigmatize as much as possible. We are all humans...just like those who don't struggle with mental illness. Our country needs to take a step back and evaluate how severe a mental health problem the US has and start funding the very services that lawmakers cut funding to that keeps all of safe and receiving the services that we so desperately need. We also need to have some serious training of law enforcement and how they handle someone in crisis. We have one of the highest death rates by cops simply because they have no clue as to how to deescalate a situation and shoots and kills instead...
We have to blame the government, things have gotten out of control. I hope the next president will fix this problem.
You said it
@@cjphillips6648 the government isn't going to save us
@cjphillips6648 The government is VERY LAST institution to fix anything this serious and complex. Tell me your kidding.
Not taking advice from a crazy person
I worked in a state mental hospital in the early 2000’s. They actually built a new one not long after and it’s nice.
I'm one of the lucky ones here in the U.S. I've never been put in a mental hospital, as I've got a good therapist ,and good coping skills for my ptsd and depression.
Great documentary, you have an excellent narrating voice and the story was beautifully written. Keep making videos 👍
Agree plus was glad no background "MUSIC"
Bring them back. It is ridiculous to let these people sleep on the streets and wait until they commit crimes and then lock them away in far worse conditions then they experienced at these places.
The Government is doing this on purpose. So it isn’t going to happen unfortunately
Unfortunately prison is the only place to detox and get the proper medication. It's criminal
Where the Hell are there families?
Gone or unable to care for them. Mental illness often results from terrible home lives and dysfunctional and abusive families.
The Reagan era decimated mental healthcare facilities, sending thousands onto the streets. Napa Valley Mental Hospital was self-sustaining w/ gardens and cattle as well as a sewing factory which gave the patients purpose til he contracted out these things and slashed funding.
I was one of Reagan’s victims. 😢
When we were thrown out onto the streets, that led to 13 more years of my life battling drug addiction and homelessness.
I’m 61 now.
My life is finally a bit better.
We definitely need some sort of group home, or mental institution to be brought back. The USA doesn't have *ANY* mental health care system at all, and these people are out on the streets left to their own devices and it isn't good. Now, with cameras their care can be better monitored so they aren't abused like many were in the past. Those atrocities shall never happen again. But we do need somewhere to put those who cannot care for themselves to be properly cared for.
Yes, state of the art facilities with modern technology, for patients with mental illness, staff to care,& respect them. It’s time to get them off the streets!🙂
Yes I agree!
I agree 100 percent
Yes, so many of the buildings are empty and not being used. If only our systems worked as they should 🤨😣
We have to do better 🙏 I have fears of what fentanyl is going to do to our nation 😭 substance abuse and mental health go hand in hand 🙏🙏
Blessings to all ❤️💙💜💙❤️
@@bailey2777 they should use the tax money from Marijuana sales to help fund better mental health care and rehabs. It's sad that we are the richest country and our mental health care is so bad, and not a priority. If we fixed that, it would fix the rest of the problems also. I live in Boston and it's absolutely horrible. People shoot up right out in the open there's a whole street where all the addicts just live on the sidewalk and needles are everywhere. It's so awful. It's like he'll on earth
These need to be back open today.
I worked at a state hospital for 4 years, late ‘70s and early
‘80s. I think the past reputation and hollywood movies, also the state thought of a small budget. It all meant the end of the hospital. I think it could have improved and was while I was there. I am sure it would be much better today, I have talked to former residents who really miss them. I think we need to think twice about the community making a difficult patient acceptable.
My grandmother’s mom passed away in the 1918 pandemic. That left my great aunt and grandmother with just their father as caretaker. A crooked priest wanted my great grandfather to sell his remaining cemetery plot (next to my great grandmother’s burial site) to him and my great grandfather refused. The priest took matters into his own hands and put my great grandfather into an “asylum.” This left his two daughters without available parents. My aunt went to work and my grandmother (10 years younger) was put in an orphanage where she was raised until 8th grade. My aunt worked and paid (essentially) for my grandmother’s room and board so she wouldn’t be adopted out. My great aunt would visit their dad every week but it was apparently so crushing and horrifying that she never really spoke about it. I often wonder how my grandmother, my mother, and my lives would have been different had my grandmother had her father growing up. The nuns at the orphanage were strict and so that is how my grandmother learned to parent. My mom was also strict in comparison to other parents her age. They were/are both very loving women, but it still makes me wonder how things would have been different.
I’m watching this video while in my car at work right next to an old abandoned high rise state mental hospital.
I worked in a state hospital for 9 years, alot of us treated our clients very well. You always have afew bad apples of course. I wouldn't mind going back to work there.
Good job on this video. I can't believe it's only got 6 comments. We were in an asylum last weekend. Filmed for 4 hours.
What one did you explore ?
Connecticut Valley Hospital in Middletown Connecticut was opened in 1867, thanks to Althea Dix.
It was originally established to help Civil War veterans suffering from Shell Shock.
The CVH property also houses The Whiting Forensic Institute, designed to treat the criminally insane.
There used to be a mental institution in my old neighborhood. First it was an old Marine Corps reserve unit, then it was converted to a mental institution, then it became an elderly home, and now in its final iteration, it is still an elderly home, but now they use it as a school for children, a polling place, and they offer some social services.
Been in two and they love to put you in solitary confinement for months at a time I can't stand to be touched anymore I'm 67 years old and screwed for life
They would drug you up as well, horrible places.
Been in one for severe eating disorder and still have nightmares about what they put me thur. Yes horrible places
Grew up a short drive from the Danvers State Hospital. It's condos and apartments now. Most of the patients are elsewhere now.
Haverford State is the same now in PA
You are off to an excellent start. Clear, concise and atmospheric. Everything I like to see in a documentary. Thank you for making it. I'm now subscribed, so I'll be back if/when you decide to make more.
I have had 38 ECT's - I have severe depression, Bi polar and, BPD. They have helped so well that i am off all my meds.
Thank you so much for the detailed info.
Loved the show and was very impressed with the commentator. I have experienced mental diseases and am very familiar with them.
* A.F. Ericsson I recently came across this vid of yours while researching Eloise Sanatorium because of recent events in the local Detroit news about ideas for new uses of the site. Even though I'm a Michigander I wasn't familiar with it. Anyway I congratulate you on your thorough research in making the vid. You also put in a lot of editing of visuals and audio. Thankyou for your work.Very professional effort . 👊😎👍
Very well done documentary Bro. Very well researched and presented in a good formula. Thank you for your time and work on this topic.
Institutions were incredibly flawed, but getting rid of them was NOT the answer for ALL of the people that resided in them.
These places need to be brought back. There are way to many insane homeless people that are dangers to themselves and to pedestrians. I’ve had a homeless man pull out a k-bar knife just Bc I didn’t have 50 cents to give him. I had to pull out my pockets and everything to prove it. Thank God I didn’t have my wallet on me. I was using Apple Pay for fas
I was assaulted on an elevator. Molested happened so fast so strong n jumped off another floor. Mgmt said he was harmless.
I've lived in Danvers for 40 years now, and i love learning about the old state hospital. Many of my friends growing up, had parents that worked there, and they'd tell us stories. My good friends father was trapped in there during the blizzard of '78, and he refused to even talk about it. We used to break into the tunnels and the old hospital itself, when we were teens. My friend was one pf the security guards. Its been made into apartments now, that countless occupants have claimed are extremely haunted.
State mental hospitals are still much needed but of course should be run compassionately and with proper treatments with goals to cure wherever possible. The problem seems that mental hospitals in the past were prisons where patients were tortured rather than of being helped.
I worked in a mental hospital, so to speak. I was there for 7 years and loved it. The patients loved me too. I would stand at the half doors and talk to them. I also worked at Scholastic in the evenings and could buy returned books for 10 cents per piece. I would take them to the hospital and the patients, if they behaved well for a certain amount of time, could get some of those books to read. They loved it and it helped their behavior immensely. In fact, one girl got transferred later to a better building in the facility. She thanked me for what I had done.
This was informative and well done. We have had 3 to 4 in Maryland.
My sister Polly and I were abused by adoption parents and taken out of the house and put in the Glenn home for children in Terre Haute Indiana. She went to Texas bcuz we found a letter in the adopted parents room that was addressed to us and it was from our other 4 siblings and they all lived in Texas. She ended up being schizophrenic bcuz she couldn't handle the daily attacks. In and out of hospital after hospital and jail but she got on SSI. But they would cut her off her check when she didn't take her meds. So she spent most of her adult life homeless in Texas all because she hated the meds. Seriously failed system in Texas. rip sis. I just have PTSD and severe depression and I hate people and especially crouds.
Clearly, the state hospitals were mismanaged, overcrowded, underfunded, and many were rife with abuses, yet , now, those with mental illnesses that are severe enough that they are unable to function in society are homeless or housed in prisons. I do believe that there needs to be institutions (good ones) where this portion of society can have safety, proper nutrition, a roof over their heads, and treatment with occupational therapy to assist them in reintegrating into society.
I lived this as a child when they sent my
Mother to one in NYS. She got out of a strait jacket and walked out the front door, made her way down the railway tracks in the rain and by night was exhausted. She found an unlocked car and crawled in for a quick nap but was discovered only to be sent back to a place where they did wretched things to her. She just wanted to get home to her children. This is how they treated women with postpartum depression!! Shock therapy was given to her and talks about a lobotomy were shot down angrily by my grandmother. Can you imagine that?!? For simply having her hormones go out of balance they wanted to turn her into a vegetable!! She lives a quiet and normal life after surviving this abuse by doctors in the 1970’s and has outlived many others in our family. She has the strength of titanium over all of this and more. This all happened at Hudson River Psychiatric Hospital which had a fire a few years ago.
My grandmother spent a good deal of time in Dorothea Dix, Broughton and Butter. This was in the 50s. She was addicted to barbiturates. I think she was bipolar because I am. But that's what they did before understanding addiction, was lock u up!!
I think what they were doing was a good thing but the way they were doing it was wrong. These institutions did help and I think they would help a lot if they were done the right way.
As always, the excuse is "underfunded and understaffed". Because our government wastes our taxes. Leaving those who need it most, to be forgotten.
I grew up in a town in Massachusetts that had a State School. And one town over from me also had a facility. Both have beautiful archatecture. Unfortunatly, by the 1990's, both places had fallen by financil cuts, time, elements and a changing world. Some of your footage reminds me of those places: Foxborough and Wrentham. Thank you for this informational vid on a sensative subject.👍
I think some of the footage is from nearby Medfield state hospital. The buildings are boarded up, but the grounds are open as a park.
I remember when they closed ours in Harrisburg pa..a little bit later I got in the methadone maintenance center just down the hill a bit..and I rode a bus every morning pulling up to the same light at the same corner..and there was a bus stall on the corner..a lady who was left out of the hospital up the hill made the bus stall on the corner her home!! I remember a winter one yr..an this lady would be up brushing her teeth in a bu ket..an she had like 5 carts covered up with plastic blue tarps..I felt so bad for her...one day I walked down to the Hess station to get coffee and donuts...when I passed her going back I tried to give her a couple dollars..but she wouldn't take it...I came back to the buss an told everyone an some guy spoke up an said well we all did what u did already..made me feel terrible!!! Where I live now there's a guy who lives like this in a public parking lot..our city just let's him there to exist..he's got very bad mental issues!! When I see him there I get angry at our city government...I say open more now!! It's true..a bed in our local psych unit at our hospital takes some times days waiting in the er!!! That's sad!!! We gotta look after these people better!!!🇺🇲🇬🇧🇦🇷🇺🇦💪😎
Well researched documentary based on official accounts. Much more to this story then we are led to believe. Keep digging for answers people!
Now we use chemical restraints instead of physical restraints
What a lot of work went into this doc. Transform exclusion to inclusion to reduce suffering. Nice theme. Thank you
Appreciate this share. Grieves the heart that such horror happened and still is in many place
I have learnt about these places on UA-cam and it's made me more aware that they were people. Just people
This is extremely interesting! Thank you.
Also I'm happy that a lot has improved through the years. Mostly improved.
Im so glad that you're using your own voice an not a fake voice. ❤
When I was young my aunt was institutionalized multiple times somewhere between fifties , sixties and seventies . My uncle brought her by my parents house in the early seventies , I was in my early teens . They sat down and a conversation began with everyone talking except my aunt . She just sat there and stared . When she would look at me it was like she was gone , broken , nothing , notta , zero . A woman that looked like all the screaming had stopped and was now an obedient shell . This gave me the creeps as at that time I wasn’t aware of her past . A couple of weeks later I was informed that we were going to her funeral . I had asked my parents what had happened to her . They explained that she had been acting up again at home and my uncle had threatened to put her back in the institution . The next day he came home from work and looked around the house calling out her name . But she wasn’t anywhere . That is until he went in the basement . That is where he found her hanging from the rafters . She would rather take her own life than return to the asylum again . ….Very Very Sad ….
All part of what was the great reset. How on earth would all this building be done if you check back on the population at the time ? It's funny how none of these old buildings or any from back in the day was there construction photos. Thanks a bunch for your amazing work you provided for us
I spent 2 days in a mental hospital and I used to work at state ran mental hospital. I had the time of my life. Everyday you will be laughing your ssA off. You will never be bored. Something exciting happen all throughout the day. The craziest of the crazys will keep you on your toes at all times.
18:30
LMFAO
This explains SO MUCH!!!! My 9th great grandfather, Richard Edgerton was a founder of Norwich CT. My 7th G-Gpa was a founder of Franklin CT. His wife (my 7th g-gma was Alice Ripley, the Daughter of Hannah Bradford, who was a physician and the daughter of William Bradford. My 7yh g-gpa was responsible for penning a letter to the governor of Connecticut, allowing permission for the first Quaker congregation in Franklin.
The fact that there was a psych hospital in Norwich is fascinating to me. I'd love to hear more about the history of medical facilities in old New England.
What a brilliant and fantastic representation of a more ugly part of US history.
It has always been of interest to myself, and I'm sure others too.
Thank you for this amazing documentary, and I cannot wait to see more on this subject. ☺
These institutions served a great purpose and should be revived for our safety
🤡
Unfortunately people are quick to only look out for themselves and also disregard the safety of those that are institutionalized. That's part of what is wrong with our society. Me,me,me, and always me. Whatever happened to looking out for each other? That includes those who are incapable of advocating for themselves and obtaining the resources they really need. If you want to just lock them up in jail or a hospital, you are an active part of the problem. These are people, human beings. Just because they have illnesses that weren't their choice to have, and they have no roof over their heads doesn't mean we can just throw them away for 'our safety' what about their safety? And it is proven that a huge majority of the homeless population, including the mentally ill, are not violent at all.
exactly the people saying these need to be revived are oblivious to how many thousands are open across america. locking more people up and drugging them for just being themselves isn't gonna stop or prevent future violence it will just get worse@@marleysmommy
Although it appears wasteful to demolish these former facilities, the misery that their walls once encompassed, and the depraved indifference they came to represent, constitutes an insurmountable mental hurdle for many.
This was a well constructed presentation. All the best going forward with your channel.
Great presentation and a very interesting topic that has been swept under the rug. We need to know our history even if it is dark. Thank you!
My parents were teachers at the state hospital in St. Joseph, MO in the late 60’s and 70’s. The facility now houses a museum and is a juvenile detention facility.
Glore Psychiatric? Place is wild! How sad that what i remember most about the museum is the rectal dialators on display are crusted with 100-year-old shit!
Excellent work
Even in this world in this year we STILL do not understand mental health, and I personally think it will take a long long time for the medical personnel, that people who suffer with metal illnesses , rely on ,to understand and properly help this section of society 😢 😞 💔
How come you don't have more subscribers? Good video I love stuff like this. Philosophy of control/confinement/power establishments etc.
the way the state of CT and UCONN have acted about the mansfield training school in the decades since its closed is so fucked. theyve essentially just swept the atrocities that they committed against KIDS there completely under wraps. i go to uconn and one of my friends who’s in disability studies rn is working on a massive piece through the human rights department to expose what happened and the number of kids that were sent over there and just hearing what he’s learned (the campus has HEAVY police presence so him his colleagues and the professor theyre working for had to do a LOT of sneaking around) and just seeing the photos he took while there was spinechilling
5 words: Bridgewater State Hospital.
Titicut Follies
i'm afraid of the answer,but what are the titicut follies?
You did a great job.
Nellie Bly's book is excellent, I highly recommend it.
This an excellent video, thank you and well done.
I’m surprised more people aren’t asking why the architecture of these buildings were so masterful after Kirkbride designed his layout. What reason would they put so much artistry and extra money and work into buildings for people they didn’t care about?
It’s very unusual that they also has tunnel systems. Can you even imagine how much money and work just that would have taken ?
There poor people were used to experiment with. If you really think about what was happening in these days horse and cart ! To build such amazing buildings, power tools were not in regular use all the historical information we have been taught about the late 1800 to 1930 is the narrative that we all taught as not to question. It is only through having the access to question the narrative was I able to understand how we all have been hoodwinked. It's all out there if you want to take a look. Check out Utah settlement and population, size of buildings, skills that were needed & I will be very surprised if many of you will keep looking & asking for more truth. What we were taught just is not true. These people were from the last reset were said to be mad crazy etc and let's face it when they went through the rest some copped others went crazy. Happy to post sites for looking at information that's really eye opening
An links??