Oh I don't know, I suspect a lot of the shoddy work I see is actually done by qualified electricians who just can't be bothered. Especially on new build sites!
Agreed the spark who wired my house (I have the documentation) was a gobshite. It’s getting boring immediately assuming “DIYers or kitchen fitters” are always to blame. Plenty of crap “qualified” electricians out there.
It's an interesting cycle. I DIY most of the time, not necessarily to save money, but because I've been bitten so often by trusting tradespeople, and having them do awful, minimum viable work. I obviously care more about my home than anyone, and if the knowledge is readily available I'll give it a go, and spend as much time as I need to do a job right. If going to market weren't such a gamble, I'd cheerfully pay someone else. It's one of the reasons I watch this channel as a non-spark; it's nice to see that there are companies out there who take pride in the work they do.
I think that professional standards have fallen since the emphasis in higher education was moved from trade skills training to university education - ushered in by Margaret Thatcher in the 1980’s. Higher education was debased further in the 1990’s by monetising it. Many companies, from the mid eighties onwards, got rid of their trained workforce via redundancy and early retirement packages, so that they could rehire some of their former employees as self employed, thereby saving on holiday pay, sick pay, overtime, employers NI and so on. Dispensing with an employed trained and skilled workforce put an end to company based training programs. Now we are in a situation where anyone can put themselves on a training course for a few weeks and come away with a qualification and no proper skills training or experience. We have ended up with a trades market place that is filled with a vast range of skill and ability. The range is between absolutely unqualified scammers, and properly trained, qualified, experienced, and competent professionals. The general public only have personal recommendation or local ads, or the competent electricians register - if they know it exists - to assist in finding competent trades people. That said, many DIYers are unaware of any of the requirements of the current wiring regulations, the Electricity at Work regulations, or anything about safe working practice, correct installation methods, or inspection and testing of electrical installations. You cannot gain that knowledge and experience from watching a few youtube videos. You cannot short circuit proper education, training, and the gaining of knowledge and experience via apprenticeship. John’s experience, and the experience of many other electricians, including my own, in carrying out EICR’s and repairs, is that you know that most of the failures and faults come down to DIY wiring, or wiring done by other trades.
I agree, completely the same. Not a spark but interested in the trade and will do basics myself round the house. I’ll always employ a spark to do bigger work like on the consumer unit etc. But I’ve used 2 sparks recently in the last year for work including redoing our kitchen. The quality and workmanship provided wasn’t the best by a mile and they wasn’t cheap, they did the job but their standards were nowhere near what I expected, more so after watching Artisan for almost 2 years now. As you say I have reasonably high expectations for tradesman and they aren’t cheap yet the quality of work leaves a lot to be desired more often than it should.
@@stevejagger8602 I fully agree. I think most of the more conscientious intelligent working class who would have made good tradesmen have been shoo'd off to university leaving a skills shortage which meant the bar had to be lowered. This would explain the decline of electricians capable of passing the Inspection and Testing exam and why it wad made easier and an open book exam. Our methods and tools have improved but the quality of candidate has declined(I was student of the year 2 years running for just doing my work and revising one or two hours a night around three times per week, surely that's just standard?) As much as many look down on trades (from my experience) we are an essential service but I think the perception of trades in general are sullied by the many poor quality tradesmen who take no pride in their work, lack ability or simply have poor morals. I believe it's indicative of the health of an industry when the fact I work in accordance with BS7671(a MINIMUM standard) and do a "proper job" becomes a unique point of sale. It's akin to buying a car from a garage and saying "that's a brilliant garage! Their cars come with four wheels!". Having a professional job completed by a professional tradesman should be the norm, not a unique point of sale.
@@stevejagger8602 I agree with this - too many kids go to University and we are suffering now as a result. I am a serivce engineer - high value scientific equipment. I have been doing the same job for 25 years. I prefer the hands-on stuff and am not interested managing it from an office so I am still on the tools. I only have an HNC in electronics. If i was applying for my job today i wouldn't get an interview despite being the company's UK senior engineer. They will only now recruit graduates. And we have had some absolute shockers in the last ten years.They have a 'degree' but honestly they have been sold a lie. They can't answer the most basic questions and have zero practical skills. Going back years ago, our best recruits were time served apprentices and also techs from the armed forces. In the UK today, the best people for our line of work are all 50+ I have no idea where we will be in ten years time. But for sure foreign companies are working it out and at some point nobody will invest here as they simply won't get the skills they need.
@@TheTW11 your experience echoes conversations I had with my fellow 40 to 50 year olds in the late 1990s. We were all broadcast television engineers with a similar study history as yourself. At that time there was at least a 10 year gap between us and the up and coming engineers because of what Margaret Thatcher did to destroy the HNC/HND route to skills training and apprenticeship. The bean counters who retired and made redundant their skilled staff so they could rehire them as freelancers to save employer costs, decimated the apprenticeship training base. At that time 20 plus years ago we were wondering who could follow us when we decided to hang up our soldering irons! The training base is now even smaller because their are so many fewer qualified and experienced people like yourself, than there were when I left television for a new career as an electrician.
Wait what?? My old man is a retired electrician. Are you saying you want to make it impossible for him to do any work for me (or himself for that matter) unless he joins a special 'club'??? Don't f'in think so. 😤
Been in the field for the last 25 years, your knowledge of testing is outstanding. Just need more people in the industry who take pride in what they do. UA-cam has helped to showcase excellent work in domestic, commercial and industry setting. Electrical is a bit like chess, As the saying is you can only get better, if you play a better opponent or should I say, see the better standards of work. So all the good content does help to raise the bar. Keep up the good work.
You got it spot on mate, UA-cam and Instagram have allowed me to learn little tricks and different ways of working. I pretty much work by myself so back in the days you'd only be able to know what you know where as now you can see other ways of working
What a great addition to the channel. I’m an apprentice have been for about 3 years now. And I have learnt more from johns nuggets of knowledge than most of my employers. I would love to work with him but this will do for now
This channel is so far detached from reality it's becoming difficult to watch. In a single sentence you said there aren't enough good electricians out there... oh and make it impossible for folk to do their own electrical work. Almost every EICR I do shows up shoddy work by a so-called qualified spark. Don't get me started on Part P. Get down off your high horse and be grateful you live in a part of the world where people can afford your services.
Been in the game for 20 years and that trick with giving the socket a wobble with the socket tester is brilliant, you literally never stop learning !! Cheers John :)
I think I disagree regarding preventing consumers from buying their own parts. The issue of work not meeting a sufficient standard isn't solved by doing this, as long as electricians out there do work of the same low quality. Preventing consumers from purchasing doesn't prevent botch jobs from professionals, so doesn't solve the issue. Checking work, providing feedback and ultimately stamps of approval of quality work is what I think is missing, no matter who it is done by. Anyone, DIY or professional, should be able to do any work, but it has to be done to the correct standard. That standard should be easily accessible and testable, and everyone should require and be given easy access to proper feedback and assessment by professionals. Did some work at your own risk? Fine. But provide easy access to get it checked and certified to ensure its not a hazard to others. Make that checking mandatory, not who does it. The quality of the work is what is ultimately trying to be controlled, so assess that rather than the one installing it.
Well said William W. In principle the Building Control system is supposed to do exactly this (post inspection to check works meet regulations), but at least round here they simply don't do their job, and just tell you to go get an electrician.
Would you say the same for gas work. Ultimately electricity is just as dangerous as gas and actually causes more fires than gas. What needs to happen is both restrict access to parts AND enforce the existing regulations and push up standards of electricians.
@Maxwell Boyne Everyone starts off inexperienced. At some point inexperienced people have to 'fuck with' electrics otherwise no-one can ever become experienced.
@Maxwell Boyne Exactly. Apprentices, trainees, the newly qualified. So you do in fact agree that your statement that 'inexperienced people should never be fucking with electrics' was wrong.
I have seen some * professional electricians* install some absolute death traps. And DIY's install things to a far far higher standards than your average sparky.. You can't just blanket blame a certain group tbh. Most of the time it's a cost issue, the client will not pay the price it takes to do a good job, they want it done cheap and fast, and therefore usually unsafe... More regulation will not solve anything, you will just create a black market of installers.
I totally agree that an experienced electrician should only be conducting EICRs unless fully aware of previous editions.Have seen so many trying to convince a client that there installation isn't up to latest regulations therefore isn't safe, not necessarily because they are trying to mislead the client its because they don't know, The classic you need a metal consumer unit ect, Yes great advice but not a fail if when installed met regulations at the time, Hence expenced or old duffers should be doing this lol, Imo 16th edition is about minimum as a benchmark, great video 👍
In Canada the owner/tenant of a property is allowed to do electrical work, but only a licensed electrical contractor is allowed to do work on another property, or for compensation. We also require permits inspections for most major electrical work (although obviously one can just Not get them). As a non electrician, I have enough experience and knowledge in electrical to feel comfortable doing most work around the house, although I prefer to stay out of the breaker board if I can help it. Now I know there are a lot of debates about who has the better/safer/etc. electrical system, but I will say that the complications of ring circuits (like massive amperage draws, undersizing wires, fused spurs, etc.) seem to make it so that the British system almost requires a professional for even the simplest of tasks. The North American system may have many drawbacks (and it absolutely does), but it's a lot simpler in terms of both implementation and ongoing maintenance, and I suspect that makes it safer for DIY work in a general sense. As an aside, as someone who wants things done correctly, safely, and neatly, the hardest thing about getting Any work done on my house is finding a competent and respectful professional. Almost every time I have hired someone to do work because I didn't feel skilled enough and wanted it done right, I've been disappointed in the workmanship and could have done a better job myself. This goes for plumbing, tiling, electrical, foundation work, anything. It's so difficult to find someone who takes pride in their work and is even willing to be paid to take their time and respect my property. That's one of the biggest reasons I think a lot of people go the DIY route.
In Czech Republic only registered electrician can carry out the jobs , only registered inspector can do the initial verification and the EICR. To be registered electrician one needs certain ammount of experience and be or employ a registered inspector. Everything has to have project documentation made by somehone who is certified to do so. Joe Public is allowed to change a light fitting or switch but some people say that Joe Public should not even change a light bulb. British rules seem to me very relaxed. Legally in the UK I am allowed to rewire my own house if I follow certain procedure. 🤯
Did I just hear that right! I need to have a license to buy t&e at b'n'q :). That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. What ever next, also can't buy lights because it's remotely dangerous! How about some perspective. It's not DIYers doing majority of "unsafe" installs; it's dodgy electricians. So they will now need to meet AE standards then?
Regarding your rant - I believe you are incorrect - there's very little dilution - just cost pressures. I believe you need better enforcement. In Australia, we have pretty-much lost all enforcement capacity - unless somebody dies, our regulators are completely disinterested. Selling electrical components to everyone shouldn't be stopped - it will all just happen on Ebay or such.
Excellent video, John is a cracking sparks. One question, how would the washing machine and dishwasher earth through the pipework when they are connected to it with plastic or rubber pipework?
Jolly good video content, I’ve seen shoddy work done by NICEIC registered electricians and top quality work by DIY persons who learned how to do it correctly by watching presentations like Artisan . We don’t need a police state. This channel is beneficial to DIY’er’s .
Life isn't perfect. When I was younger my family didn't have a lot of money, so if I wanted a better and safer house I had to do the simpler repairs and improvements myself. Money was saved to hire professionals for the bigger and more complicated jobs. If I couldn't do some work myself then things would have just gone unrepaired. I learned from my father and I also read books. I didn't tackle any job that was beyond my knowledge - just like I only do simple repairs on my car. Now that I'm some decades older I'm comfortable rating my work above that of the majority of tradespeople that I've hired in my lifetime. I'm not on the clock so I can be excessively neat, take as much time as I like to plan things out, and wait as long as I like for the perfect set of parts to be delivered to my door. Most tradespeople need to get the work done in a timely manner and make compromises all the time.
What a great tip regarding loose cpc’s!! I’ve been in the game 27 years and never knew that!!! Tbf I work on my own so not sure how that will help me even tho I now know 😂👍🏻
Without prejudice. Have to disagree with the comment made 15:04. Some DIY work that I have seen in the past, is better than some of the NICEIC companies work, that I have seen installed in the last 12 months. ie. Recessed downlights connected with taped up connectors. C2, in 4 years time, or a fire before. Contractor, Proudly wearing the NICEIC badge. Surely the ECA, NAPIT, NICEIC monitor these excellant youtube sites, viewing the comments of persons proudly to be in the industry. And proud to make these videos, at great expense of their time.
The traditional screw terminal as used on most domestic switches are not brilliant. If I've changed a socket I always, as a precaution, pull the cables to ensure proper retention and hence, in theory, a sound electrical connection. Has anyone come up with anything better? I suppose you could crimp them, but that would be a faf.
So many times I've taken sockets of and had a wire pop out because the screw only caught one wire properly. I was taught to twist the wires together to get a more reliable connection but so few people seem to do it now. Sooner sockets with wagos become affordable the better.
One small addition. On so many of your inspections, you come across exposed primary insulation of the cores, on things like light fittings or junction boxes. Sometimes this is encouraged by poor design of the product being fitted, and it does not facilitate easy and secure installation. So many of these cheap products made abroad do not allow suitable space and cable clamping to make a nice job. Also bear in mind that the original electrician may well have made sure all the cables were fully inside a junction box, and subsequent people have pulled on cables doing other work onsite which has exposed the primary insulation.
@@timwoodhams958 Correct, I was just saying we should not necessarily blame bad workmanship on a sparky. It might have been a builder or plumber that was pulling on cables to move them clear of some thing they were doing. There are many approved products out there that do not properly hold the cable. A periodic inspection is a good thing.
Given your comments, I'm a retired ex tech electrician from the commercial world. I understand where you are coming from in that all those years ago the regs where different and so was the work ethic. 'Sparks' were the ones who were street wise, electricians the newbies. My initial start and apprenticeship was via a commercial company. I was advised, at the end of my apprenticeship to change companies many times. Mainly because some specialised in MICC.or Steel conduit, SWA, Swich Rooms, D1 JOBS( airports/petroleum sites/heavy industrial or Nuclear and docks.) all with different rules and set ups for mainly safety. I was fully cleared to work within Whitehall, Royal Palaces and secret bunkers- so all in all a varied career but above it all the most important part is the comradery, the fun, wind ups and general 'crack' was what was important. Now is far to serious, with many Sparks working on their own. When I finally left, the electrical world had change completely. Sparks working via agencies, farm labourers from Rumania given JIB cards and called electricians. Industrial work now is very poor and relies on the tests and the protection. Where you are seems the best of todays workplace. Good lUCK.
I would rephrase "very experienced" to "very knowledgeable" for doing EICR's. Unfortunately 20 years experience of doing it wrong is not as good as 5 years experience of doing it right. You will always have people more driven to learn and will have more knowledge earlier on in their career than someone who doesn't give a hoot.
Couldn't agree more. I trained as an electrician about 9 years ago, never worked as an electrician but then trained as an inspector 7 years ago (both in college and on the job) and have been doing it ever since. If you wanted me to do an install it would take me for ever, but I can tell you immediately if something has been done not to regs and put it right. I've completed eicr's after 'experienced' sparks have done them and found numerous issues, not only with the 'experienced' sparks results and conclusions but also issues they missed entirely. When it comes to eicr's knowledge trump's experience, IMO.
@@waithereivegonetogethelp3240 It's a race to the bottom with eicrs. You quote a reasonable time to do it (at least a few hrs even on a 1 bed flat) and they bitch about the cost.... Can't win
Curious did you actually classify the down lights as a c2 If they were taped up would it make a difference Seems strange you would trace a loose earth but fail the install on a debatable coding
Good video, but 14:50 no that's a shite idea. DIYers and other trades have been tampering with electrics since the invention of the bloody stuff, it's nothing new. Also, qualifications, CPS's, etc don't immune someone from being shite, it just means they're officially shite. Take away ALL restrictions on electrical work, and let us just get on with the job that's my stance.
Restricting the purchase of consumer units to qualified sparks could never work in the real world nor should it! It’s like saying you can’t buy a car unless you have passed your driving test!
Very thorough, nice to see you guys going the extra mile! That lofts done out lovely. Maybe inspection points either in floor or bring em up to a maintenance free? Would that get a pass. Not sure I agree about the whole don't sell the consumer unit to the consumer... I prefer the on your head be it but also see the other side of the argument. Would you block earth sleeve or rcbos. Really difficult to enforce but maybe the whole lot laws and regs need an overhaul
We already have competent persons schemes... that are just paper tigers. Much of the shoddy work I have dealt with over the years has been by registered firms. As for restricting sales of cable... Mr(s) DIY will wire it in with flex or speaker cable, blocking consumer units won't stop the DIYer from messing around or the cowboys from bodging it up whilst fleecing the customer on parts costs, aside from which Chinese suppliers would open up shop to supply direct!
Just remember that most people wouldn't touch their electricity supply sockets lights ect if it wasn't for You Tube the amount of times i get told that im not paying that much i can do it myself iv seen it on UA-cam and it only takes a couple of minutes. Also builders give sparks a bad name telling the customers that the spark will be round in the morning to do the electrical work when the builder himself botches it up. The other thing is the drive by EICRs why pay £300.00 for a EICR when Smeg Sparks can do it for a £100.00 this was only told to me last week by a multi house owner as long as i have a up to date ticket its not my problem if the tenants get electrocuted its not my name ot the Cert.
A landlord with a conscience, or even some integrity, to pay trust worthy electricians to make sure that their tenants should be safe, is what you should be worried about, but because they know they cant be held liable, is why things are so messed up.
The problem with the electrical industry is self-certification although electricians will never agree with that. Mark your own homework will never work in any industry and also self-certification is just rent-seeking. I have hired qualified electricians from decent websites and they have not always done a great job. Third party (building-control ?) paid-for sign-off of all works is the way to go and will improve standards and allow competent DIYers to do minor works.
@@bertiebassett1972 The point is that someone else should check and sign-off work to ensure quality is adhered to. Like building control do for general building work. Now those schemes may also have their issues, but surely it is infinitely better than marking your own homework. In my industry (I am not an electrician), we maintain quality by peer review. There are lots of mistakes, many inadvertent, that are picked up in review.
If I were carrying out one of those inspections I would definitely do a quick pre-inspection ie checking consumer units, the shed outside the loft, plug sockets, light switches, and fittings, and pre-order any materials needed to carry out and snag any minor problems on the inspection, as far as the Electrical industry goes with the introduction of Rcds safety from electrocution has come on leaps and bounds and all the new testing equipment there is around it makes the job so much simpler especially testing tripping on Rcds and ECB S you guys now have really well-produced power tools battery driven again improving site safety and working conditions especially outside and with the introduction of the Landlord act on electrical safety testing that's a bottomless pit for more business and making money, And as far as registering electricians the same as gas safe engineers don't even go there That means every 5 years of being completely ree examined at costs of upward these days of 5 grand and then the spot check gas safe inspections,The Guy with the Beard has got it easy peasy which ever way a job goes he gets paid................Its the Boss I feel sorry for.
Sparky from Australia here its great watching your videos and seeing all the different methods and gear you guys have even down to the shoe covers! Same problems over here unfortunately too many DIYers causing issues and undercutting guys that are doing the job the way it should be done.
A DIYer is not 'undercutting' anyone. They are doing their own home improvements, swapping time for money. Nothing wrong with that. And the idea that DIYers are always worse than professionals is just wrong. Plenty of us know what the regs are and take a lot more time and care than your average tradesperson.
@@xxwookey Is that in the UK or Aus? Here it's illegal to do your own electrical and it also voids your home insurance. The number of accidents if seen as a result of DIY far outweigh the ones that do it right.
@@Noodough I'm in the UK. You appear to be missing my point which is that DIY is not 'undercutting'. DIYers pay in time - often quite a lot of it. There is no moral imperative to pay someone else to do a job if you are capable of doing it yourself. There may be legal requirements, but that's outside the point I was making.
All making electrical equipment unavailable to the public will do is push people to ebay and the usual suspects where you'll never stop them selling the equipment, where the equipment will be of unknown quality and safety. You can't stop DIY, and trying to do so will just make it even more unsafe. While I don't think changing a consumer unit or rewiring a whole house is something a DIYer should be doing, there's plenty of things I believe are fully within the capabilities of a competent DIYer when it comes to electrical. Some people can't afford the high costs of getting a qualified electrician in, especially for smaller jobs where I've found it extremely hard to get an electrician in at all because they'd rather the big money jobs. I paid £600 to have 6 downlights put in and an extractor fan changed, lights and fan were screwfix basic stuff so less than £150 in materials. A lot of people are gonna look at that £450 saving for doing it DIY and just do it, no matter what you do, and many people are competent enough to do that job DIY as much as sparks will say they're not. Then add in the fact that it's really REALLY difficult for joe public to find tradespeople who aren't cowboys. Sure do a Electrical Safe Registery or whatever but that's still no guarantee, I've had Gas Safe registered guys do abysmal work it's no guarantee that the guy you're gonna get can be bothered to do the work properly.
I’m a four week part P candidate having retired from 36 years in aerospace electrical systems design and sales. There was no other way to enter the industry at my age. The technical part of the training and the exams was not a major hurdle, however real world experience, time on the tools and selection of appropriate materials was my blind spot that I was fully aware of. I began carrying out minor works and was building my experience portfolio to join a CPS by shadowing a long experienced spark. As I was about to apply to NICIEC, their entry criteria changed and I now needed Level 3 Test and Inspection. As I don’t want to do Landlord EICRs or car chargers, and don’t plan to supervise any employees I was a bit set back by the need to spend more time and money, just because the hurdle had been raised. I’ve done notifiable work, documented my planning and progress through testing then asked my mentor (NICEIC member) to certify with no issues found. So I’m a bit frustrated as a conscientious mature bloke, entering the industry as a gentle end to my working life, needing to pay endless fees to join and maintain CPS schemes that seem focussed on promoting a traditional entry path instead of an individual’s demonstrated competence. I think a mandatory annual fee to be assessed as competent is the way forward but it should be tiered, depending on what work you plan to do.
If your smart, capable, and committed to doing a great job that trumps most things, yes experience is important but only if it’s continually built upon by CPD. It’s not technically challenging to do the testing rather where experience helps is in making judgement calls but some situations can be so different that it becomes a new process every time you step through the door. EICR is a minimum set of testing for a installation.
I wouldn’t be surprised if part of the problem is down to a shortage/unavailability of tradesmen, forcing homeowners to attempt things they haven’t before. I have been trying to get a quotation for some soundproofing since January; at least half a dozen builders have either not responded to my enquiries, not showed up when supposed to quote or ‘ghosted’ me mid way through a conversation. I am now at the end of my tether, and have no choice other than to attempt it myself. Perhaps the same is happening in the electrical industry?
Great content as always. I am surprised however how little content you and others show on insulation resistance tests on installed circuits. Seemingly concentration on R1+R2 readings. Is there a mystery behind it ? 🙂
Seen poor electrics on new builds.Electricains all need their 2391 and bs7671 and since September proof of installation ability via formal exam.But seen lots of homeowner work that's been unsafe.I know a retired electrical engineer that has done some work to very high standard and does not hold a single trade exam except for his degree in engineering.
There is good and bad in all trades. And even the "best" will make mistakes. Regulation can be a good thing, but we are dictated to enough already in this country.. most people have the common sense to call someone in the know; but being part of a competent person scheme is no measure of quality.
I tend to agree with a Gas Safe Register style body for electricians but not with stopping the public buying stuff. They tried with Gas Fittings and Appliances around the time Part P was pushed to get that done and because so many places, ScrewFix etc were selling boilers/ cookers/ hobs and fittings already the cat was out the bag. There's a lot more legal weight when it comes to gas if someone installs an appliance and doesn't register it and isn't deemed competent, (has to be Gas Safe registered can't be previously qualified but retired etc now) where as electrical works are seldom enforced to the same degree, that needs to be addressed.
DNO electrical work on the supply tends to be sealed with registered sealing pliers. Maybe if all electricians had to seal their work in the same manner it might make a difference.
Keep smiling John 😊 EICRs are mind melting how the hell do you not loose it? (Hard drugs or alcohol?) I dread the bed that has to be moved (how much dust? Adult toys😳😂) or the greasiest kitchen extract fan. Trying to explain to a client of the dangers of a micro wave being used in a bathroom (don’t ask) or why some one wired a outside socket from a porch light in 0.75mm flex. Yes I tend to find it’s a trader either a “handy man” or “builder” that’s carried out the electrical work with no idea of how dangerous of how “whacking a light up” could possibly be. After the amount of insulation tape holding twisted cables I found today I’d happily buy them some wagos 😊
I did some downlights for a lady. I spent an hour measuring them out. She said what are you doing? I said we are measuring them out, so they look nice! Rubbish, she said I want one there one there, one three, one there, on there!! I hate symmetry!
When trying to estimate the age of installation the make of the oldest consumer unit gives a hint as it is now in hut. So I would suggest 1970s so hut is against regulations should be Rcd protecting sockets
There are some 'shocking!!' electricians trading but also some very good ones as I see on this video. Regulation doesn't stop poor quality nor stop people from buying as it will just go knock off, underground purchases or re-use the old stuff. I'm thinking back to the 60's and 70's where there was some really good tradespersons and also some really good DIY although you didn't call it that then. From my own experience from being at school aged 12 putting a plug on was one of the tasks. You can't have a nanny state and just looking at who didn't observe Covid rules just gives you a clue. People need to be responsible for their own actions or work but if they want to kill themselves with electricity make sure that don't kill someone else. I worry so much when I take on a new member of staff and they do not have the basic of ohms law!. maybe you can rely on modern test kit but I really want people to know the theory. Rant over!
I somewhat agree that consumer units could/should be controlled to a qualified installer, however other lower voltage components (up to 240v) I'm not so sure on - replacing a switch/ceiling rose with an identical unit? reasonably low risk, but you can blow things up if you don't isolate or terminate correctly. DIYing up a garage light/socket, if you understand how to support the cable cable/circuit sizing/making suitable connections; but after you complete some of those minor adjustments successfully you might be tempted to try something more serious, and it becomes a slippery slope. Home owners also have the difficulty of finding a quality electrician; most come with a caveat of "they turned up 2hrs late" or "did a few jobs for me, then didn't hear from them again", so lots of people learn towards DIY for "simple jobs". The other issue is that some electricians that are closer to VAT registration may ask customers to purchase a materials list to keep their turnover lower, requiring the purchaser be on a list would close this "loophole" In theory - good idea, in practise - not as sure! The UK electrical system, and UK/Euro grid is very reliable; however I don't think the trade has ever had a "great" reputation.
What's so special about consumer units? You need a sufficient understanding for any new circuit. If you can do one, then you can do several, and a CU is just a neat way of splitting off multiple circuits from an incomer.
Having recently returned to the industry I’m absolutely gobsmacked by the appalling work I’m seeing from so called qualified electricians. I’ve been following one particular NICEIC company whose EICR’s appear to be complete works of fiction or ignorance. Plus, the remedial work they’re charging for isn’t being done. It’s attitude rather than qualifications or registration that it falls down on, it really winds me up that some people don’t give a shit and stopping the DIYers won’t help the industry as much as a decent independent auditor scheme would. That will never happen sadly as no-one would fund it, especially in the current times.
Don’t know about the industry, but I do know great electricians when I see them. The Artisan sparks and apprentices are the guys I want to fix my DIY work. 😁🇬🇧👍🏻
I think alot of the poor work is down to customer thinking this are a five minute job. So that’s what they get. Instead of taking time and effort to do it right these companies are all under cutting each other which leads to poor work. I think a better solution is any electrical work needs to be insurance backed. So if it’s found to be non-compliant a claim would go against your insurance and you would be liable for an excess fee.
Absolutely agree on restricting the sale of electrical installation materials to registered electrical contractors. Sadly in the UK that has been made nearly impossible by grubby profiteering politicians and their very unhealthy relationship with corporate interests. The demise of apprenticeships is down to Margaret Thatcher who encouraged the conversion of Technical Colleges and Polytechnics into universities. Apprenticeships declined along with this push to university education.
are we in Nazi germany now? What next, DIYers have to be licensed to think! This is a ridiculous idea and anyone should be embarrassed to even put it forward let alone support it. The majority of unsafe work is done by dodgy qualified electricians. The number of home owners that would dare to touch electrics is minuscule.
Kind of can’t agree with non electricians being restricted from buying consumer units if they have enough knowledge to buy well, installing completely different, saying that I deal with Booking emergency jobs for people off power and the quality of workmanship I see is shocking poorly fitted meter tails exposed copper borrowed neutrals and unfused connections over 3 metres
Quality work costs, and thats why things are the way they are, if people cannot afford and electrician how on earth can they progress? I note all the homes you work in are middle class homes, lets see some work done on working class people homes, who cannot afford you, and I think your eyes will open up even more!!
This is the result of subcontractor culture, greed by every boss ive ever worked for, and the stupid short timeframes they quote to win the job in the first place. And your comment about the experience to do eicr, your talking ideal world, I know lots of totally new people doing EICRs, good or not up for debate but your well outnumbered by college kids doing them than experienced bloke like you. Seeing you climb around that house makes me happy I stayed commercial.
You mentioned AFDD's being part of the 18th edition. I'm still not sold on these devices now being mandatory for specific properties. Originally designed for the north American market due to lots of domestic dwellings being made of wood. Obviously a great deal of new builds are internal Wooden framed but it's not been an issue in the UK for fires to break out even in HMOs. 32 year's experience tells me it's over the top to force these into the market for a negligible risk. Instead of bringing the standards of installation up. It's always implementation of the stick. Insurance policy has driven this through. Poor installation is a significant contribution to faults and fires. Electrician's should and always take pride in the installation and stop doing rough work. I see it most days with younger people in the trade . it's poor training. Just no interest in the people they do the work for who expect the electrician to do a good job all of the time. It should have stayed a risk assessment of each building. But what do I know 🤷♂️
Hmmmmmmmmmmm. The next ten to twenty years is going to expose a massive shortage of electrically experience and qualified people. It already is, but the situation is going to get worse. There actually needs to be a fast track, cost effective scheme to attract industry experienced/skilled people to come back or switch their field of operation. I am a qualified engineer that has worked in electrical/electronic engineering for 30yrs. I have worked on installing a massive range of electrical systems (Radar, EW, Air traffic control, Fusion reactors, Subsea robotics, Heat pump control, CCTV and Communication). I have looked at the route required to be a registered electrician, but it is just not practical. Many of the regulatory changes in the last couple of decades have pushed many skilled people out to be replaced by those with qualifications but no understanding or skills (Not those on this channel, I have been quite impressed with these guys). The industry has become locked in the vicious circle of poorly implemented regulation and escalating costs of membership. This encourages two types of business to be successful, the very good ones like Artisan and the Cowboys who rip people off and do poor work. You are going to see and increase in poor quality work when doing EICRs, due this scenario. More regulations and policing, simply escalates costs, and encourages the cowboys and poor DIY efforts. Unfortunately John's suggestion in this video would push even more experienced people out the door. Sorry to be all doom and gloom, and I am now off to fill in my application for a job at ASDA ;)
I can affirm with certainty that qualified electricians do bodge work all the time and when they're not in the mood to bother or are in a hurry to get to the next job will do all kinds of things that people say is "DIY" when it's not, and even if you get people to inspect the work, sometimes THEY might not be in the mood take a quick look around and go "yeah looks good to me" because they're not in the mood to bother detailing the problems on paper. And if people weren't able to buy cables then you got a government sanctioned monopoly where only a few companies are able to change out an outlet, there's already few electricians as it is if you did this then there'd be waiting lists months long which would cause it's own problems and hazards and when you say "we used to be the best in the world" we still are trust me you'd lose your mind if you saw continental electrics, apart from Germany where it's usually good most of them are shocking. In some countries they seal up the consumer units but it's as a matter of insurance so that if anything goes wrong for a number of years you or someone else in the same firm would be sent back to fix it for free, that makes sense from the consumer's pov but to just be forced to hire more expensive electricians for minor jobs as a matter of government bureaucracy? No
Dont get your fingers on the copper!!That wil rust because off the fatty things on your finger!!!And then you will have a bad connection again!!So keep the copper clean!!So thats why we have solid copper in our wires!
That one video was enough for me to unsubscribe . Nothing worse than people complaining, just install the sockets and stop complaining about how under appreciated the trade is good luck with everything .
Bye then Trust me I conduct EICR’s and they are not fun by a long chalk routing through another humans dust a debris and keeping a cheerful smile while remembering a code for wether or not a light fitting is ok for a toilet but not a bathroom but is it over 2.4mtrs please can I just go to the pub now😂😂
Thanks to TRADIFY for sponsoring this video: Get 50% Off your first 3 months using our discount code "ARTISAN" here: bit.ly/3IaeIz9
Oh I don't know, I suspect a lot of the shoddy work I see is actually done by qualified electricians who just can't be bothered. Especially on new build sites!
Agree, it seems much of the domestic industry is a merry go round correcting each others work.
It's within the electrical industry pound signs come first. And many electricians even show their work on UA-cam lol and not doing it 100%
But I have to add you are the exception
Agreed the spark who wired my house (I have the documentation) was a gobshite. It’s getting boring immediately assuming “DIYers or kitchen fitters” are always to blame. Plenty of crap “qualified” electricians out there.
Pay a sensible rate and you should expect a quality job. Hold back on the cash, or expect breakneck progress, and you get shite. Simples.
It's an interesting cycle. I DIY most of the time, not necessarily to save money, but because I've been bitten so often by trusting tradespeople, and having them do awful, minimum viable work. I obviously care more about my home than anyone, and if the knowledge is readily available I'll give it a go, and spend as much time as I need to do a job right. If going to market weren't such a gamble, I'd cheerfully pay someone else. It's one of the reasons I watch this channel as a non-spark; it's nice to see that there are companies out there who take pride in the work they do.
I think that professional standards have fallen since the emphasis in higher education was moved from trade skills training to university education - ushered in by Margaret Thatcher in the 1980’s. Higher education was debased further in the 1990’s by monetising it.
Many companies, from the mid eighties onwards, got rid of their trained workforce via redundancy and early retirement packages, so that they could rehire some of their former employees as self employed, thereby saving on holiday pay, sick pay, overtime, employers NI and so on. Dispensing with an employed trained and skilled workforce put an end to company based training programs.
Now we are in a situation where anyone can put themselves on a training course for a few weeks and come away with a qualification and no proper skills training or experience.
We have ended up with a trades market place that is filled with a vast range of skill and ability. The range is between absolutely unqualified scammers, and properly trained, qualified, experienced, and competent professionals.
The general public only have personal recommendation or local ads, or the competent electricians register - if they know it exists - to assist in finding competent trades people.
That said, many DIYers are unaware of any of the requirements of the current wiring regulations, the Electricity at Work regulations, or anything about safe working practice, correct installation methods, or inspection and testing of electrical installations.
You cannot gain that knowledge and experience from watching a few youtube videos.
You cannot short circuit proper education, training, and the gaining of knowledge and experience via apprenticeship.
John’s experience, and the experience of many other electricians, including my own, in carrying out EICR’s and repairs, is that you know that most of the failures and faults come down to DIY wiring, or wiring done by other trades.
I agree, completely the same. Not a spark but interested in the trade and will do basics myself round the house. I’ll always employ a spark to do bigger work like on the consumer unit etc.
But I’ve used 2 sparks recently in the last year for work including redoing our kitchen. The quality and workmanship provided wasn’t the best by a mile and they wasn’t cheap, they did the job but their standards were nowhere near what I expected, more so after watching Artisan for almost 2 years now. As you say I have reasonably high expectations for tradesman and they aren’t cheap yet the quality of work leaves a lot to be desired more often than it should.
@@stevejagger8602 I fully agree. I think most of the more conscientious intelligent working class who would have made good tradesmen have been shoo'd off to university leaving a skills shortage which meant the bar had to be lowered. This would explain the decline of electricians capable of passing the Inspection and Testing exam and why it wad made easier and an open book exam. Our methods and tools have improved but the quality of candidate has declined(I was student of the year 2 years running for just doing my work and revising one or two hours a night around three times per week, surely that's just standard?) As much as many look down on trades (from my experience) we are an essential service but I think the perception of trades in general are sullied by the many poor quality tradesmen who take no pride in their work, lack ability or simply have poor morals. I believe it's indicative of the health of an industry when the fact I work in accordance with BS7671(a MINIMUM standard) and do a "proper job" becomes a unique point of sale. It's akin to buying a car from a garage and saying "that's a brilliant garage! Their cars come with four wheels!". Having a professional job completed by a professional tradesman should be the norm, not a unique point of sale.
@@stevejagger8602 I agree with this - too many kids go to University and we are suffering now as a result. I am a serivce engineer - high value scientific equipment. I have been doing the same job for 25 years. I prefer the hands-on stuff and am not interested managing it from an office so I am still on the tools. I only have an HNC in electronics. If i was applying for my job today i wouldn't get an interview despite being the company's UK senior engineer. They will only now recruit graduates. And we have had some absolute shockers in the last ten years.They have a 'degree' but honestly they have been sold a lie. They can't answer the most basic questions and have zero practical skills.
Going back years ago, our best recruits were time served apprentices and also techs from the armed forces.
In the UK today, the best people for our line of work are all 50+ I have no idea where we will be in ten years time. But for sure foreign companies are working it out and at some point nobody will invest here as they simply won't get the skills they need.
@@TheTW11 your experience echoes conversations I had with my fellow 40 to 50 year olds in the late 1990s.
We were all broadcast television engineers with a similar study history as yourself.
At that time there was at least a 10 year gap between us and the up and coming engineers because of what Margaret Thatcher did to destroy the HNC/HND route to skills training and apprenticeship.
The bean counters who retired and made redundant their skilled staff so they could rehire them as freelancers to save employer costs, decimated the apprenticeship training base.
At that time 20 plus years ago we were wondering who could follow us when we decided to hang up our soldering irons!
The training base is now even smaller because their are so many fewer qualified and experienced people like yourself, than there were when I left television for a new career as an electrician.
Wait what?? My old man is a retired electrician. Are you saying you want to make it impossible for him to do any work for me (or himself for that matter) unless he joins a special 'club'??? Don't f'in think so. 😤
I tell you something, that move you did with finding the loose connection was a blinder 👍👍👍.
#JohnTips
And it was! Little things like that take years to learn but 5 seconds to tell someone. It all helps.
@@yrification True, Ive got my own moves for other types of faults that I actually summarised myself. But as they say everyday is a school day!!
That's a brilliant trick!
Although you've done yourself out of...
R2 continuity readings far greater than that of R1 and RN. Further investigation required 😜
Been in the field for the last 25 years, your knowledge of testing is outstanding. Just need more people in the industry who take pride in what they do. UA-cam has helped to showcase excellent work in domestic, commercial and industry setting. Electrical is a bit like chess, As the saying is you can only get better, if you play a better opponent or should I say, see the better standards of work. So all the good content does help to raise the bar. Keep up the good work.
You got it spot on mate, UA-cam and Instagram have allowed me to learn little tricks and different ways of working. I pretty much work by myself so back in the days you'd only be able to know what you know where as now you can see other ways of working
John never fails to amaze me with his knowledge. An exceptional electrician, we need more of people like him in the industry.
What a great addition to the channel. I’m an apprentice have been for about 3 years now. And I have learnt more from johns nuggets of knowledge than most of my employers. I would love to work with him but this will do for now
This channel is so far detached from reality it's becoming difficult to watch. In a single sentence you said there aren't enough good electricians out there... oh and make it impossible for folk to do their own electrical work. Almost every EICR I do shows up shoddy work by a so-called qualified spark. Don't get me started on Part P. Get down off your high horse and be grateful you live in a part of the world where people can afford your services.
Been in the game for 20 years and that trick with giving the socket a wobble with the socket tester is brilliant, you literally never stop learning !! Cheers John :)
Have to admit, this guy is seriously inspirational. I learn so much off his videos. Cory needs to up his game 👌
He should work with that Bundy guy a bit more 😁
I think I disagree regarding preventing consumers from buying their own parts.
The issue of work not meeting a sufficient standard isn't solved by doing this, as long as electricians out there do work of the same low quality. Preventing consumers from purchasing doesn't prevent botch jobs from professionals, so doesn't solve the issue.
Checking work, providing feedback and ultimately stamps of approval of quality work is what I think is missing, no matter who it is done by. Anyone, DIY or professional, should be able to do any work, but it has to be done to the correct standard. That standard should be easily accessible and testable, and everyone should require and be given easy access to proper feedback and assessment by professionals.
Did some work at your own risk? Fine. But provide easy access to get it checked and certified to ensure its not a hazard to others. Make that checking mandatory, not who does it.
The quality of the work is what is ultimately trying to be controlled, so assess that rather than the one installing it.
Well said William W. In principle the Building Control system is supposed to do exactly this (post inspection to check works meet regulations), but at least round here they simply don't do their job, and just tell you to go get an electrician.
Would you say the same for gas work.
Ultimately electricity is just as dangerous as gas and actually causes more fires than gas.
What needs to happen is both restrict access to parts AND enforce the existing regulations and push up standards of electricians.
@Maxwell Boyne Everyone starts off inexperienced. At some point inexperienced people have to 'fuck with' electrics otherwise no-one can ever become experienced.
@Maxwell Boyne Exactly. Apprentices, trainees, the newly qualified. So you do in fact agree that your statement that 'inexperienced people should never be fucking with electrics' was wrong.
I have seen some * professional electricians* install some absolute death traps. And DIY's install things to a far far higher standards than your average sparky.. You can't just blanket blame a certain group tbh. Most of the time it's a cost issue, the client will not pay the price it takes to do a good job, they want it done cheap and fast, and therefore usually unsafe...
More regulation will not solve anything, you will just create a black market of installers.
@Maxwell Boyne read what I actually said before typing bollocks yourself??
I totally agree that an experienced electrician should only be conducting EICRs unless fully aware of previous editions.Have seen so many trying to convince a client that there installation isn't up to latest regulations therefore isn't safe, not necessarily because they are trying to mislead the client its because they don't know, The classic you need a metal consumer unit ect, Yes great advice but not a fail if when installed met regulations at the time, Hence expenced or old duffers should be doing this lol, Imo 16th edition is about minimum as a benchmark, great video 👍
In Canada the owner/tenant of a property is allowed to do electrical work, but only a licensed electrical contractor is allowed to do work on another property, or for compensation. We also require permits inspections for most major electrical work (although obviously one can just Not get them).
As a non electrician, I have enough experience and knowledge in electrical to feel comfortable doing most work around the house, although I prefer to stay out of the breaker board if I can help it.
Now I know there are a lot of debates about who has the better/safer/etc. electrical system, but I will say that the complications of ring circuits (like massive amperage draws, undersizing wires, fused spurs, etc.) seem to make it so that the British system almost requires a professional for even the simplest of tasks. The North American system may have many drawbacks (and it absolutely does), but it's a lot simpler in terms of both implementation and ongoing maintenance, and I suspect that makes it safer for DIY work in a general sense.
As an aside, as someone who wants things done correctly, safely, and neatly, the hardest thing about getting Any work done on my house is finding a competent and respectful professional. Almost every time I have hired someone to do work because I didn't feel skilled enough and wanted it done right, I've been disappointed in the workmanship and could have done a better job myself. This goes for plumbing, tiling, electrical, foundation work, anything. It's so difficult to find someone who takes pride in their work and is even willing to be paid to take their time and respect my property. That's one of the biggest reasons I think a lot of people go the DIY route.
In Czech Republic only registered electrician can carry out the jobs , only registered inspector can do the initial verification and the EICR. To be registered electrician one needs certain ammount of experience and be or employ a registered inspector. Everything has to have project documentation made by somehone who is certified to do so. Joe Public is allowed to change a light fitting or switch but some people say that Joe Public should not even change a light bulb. British rules seem to me very relaxed. Legally in the UK I am allowed to rewire my own house if I follow certain procedure. 🤯
Did I just hear that right! I need to have a license to buy t&e at b'n'q :). That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. What ever next, also can't buy lights because it's remotely dangerous! How about some perspective. It's not DIYers doing majority of "unsafe" installs; it's dodgy electricians. So they will now need to meet AE standards then?
Absolutely love John's idea of the electricians register with serial numbers for consumer units and cable. Why can't we make this happen?
Great video!
Regarding your rant - I believe you are incorrect - there's very little dilution - just cost pressures. I believe you need better enforcement. In Australia, we have pretty-much lost all enforcement capacity - unless somebody dies, our regulators are completely disinterested. Selling electrical components to everyone shouldn't be stopped - it will all just happen on Ebay or such.
It’s less than 0.022Mohms you are looking for when testing for extraneous conductive parts, not 0.22Mohms . 0.22Mohms would be 220,000 ohms.
Excellent video, John is a cracking sparks. One question, how would the washing machine and dishwasher earth through the pipework when they are connected to it with plastic or rubber pipework?
Jolly good video content, I’ve seen shoddy work done by NICEIC registered electricians and top quality work by DIY persons who learned how to do it correctly by watching presentations like Artisan . We don’t need a police state. This channel is beneficial to DIY’er’s .
Life isn't perfect. When I was younger my family didn't have a lot of money, so if I wanted a better and safer house I had to do the simpler repairs and improvements myself. Money was saved to hire professionals for the bigger and more complicated jobs. If I couldn't do some work myself then things would have just gone unrepaired.
I learned from my father and I also read books. I didn't tackle any job that was beyond my knowledge - just like I only do simple repairs on my car. Now that I'm some decades older I'm comfortable rating my work above that of the majority of tradespeople that I've hired in my lifetime. I'm not on the clock so I can be excessively neat, take as much time as I like to plan things out, and wait as long as I like for the perfect set of parts to be delivered to my door. Most tradespeople need to get the work done in a timely manner and make compromises all the time.
What a great tip regarding loose cpc’s!! I’ve been in the game 27 years and never knew that!!! Tbf I work on my own so not sure how that will help me even tho I now know 😂👍🏻
I was thinking exactly the same thing mate, I learn quite a lot of this guy, he is such a dynamic addition to the team 👍
Grab your phone, and place the meter/phone in a location the phone can record
Without prejudice.
Have to disagree with the comment made 15:04.
Some DIY work that I have seen in the past, is better than some of the NICEIC companies work, that I have seen installed in the last 12 months.
ie. Recessed downlights connected with taped up connectors. C2, in 4 years time, or a fire before.
Contractor, Proudly wearing the NICEIC badge.
Surely the ECA, NAPIT, NICEIC monitor these excellant youtube sites, viewing the comments of persons proudly to be in the industry. And proud to make these videos, at great expense of their time.
They are just happy to take the money.
Part p is to blame for a lot of the damage done.
Correct.
Hi how do u price the EICR it is look you checked all must everything you spend more time on it ? Please answer
The traditional screw terminal as used on most domestic switches are not brilliant. If I've changed a socket I always, as a precaution, pull the cables to ensure proper retention and hence, in theory, a sound electrical connection. Has anyone come up with anything better? I suppose you could crimp them, but that would be a faf.
So many times I've taken sockets of and had a wire pop out because the screw only caught one wire properly. I was taught to twist the wires together to get a more reliable connection but so few people seem to do it now. Sooner sockets with wagos become affordable the better.
One small addition.
On so many of your inspections, you come across exposed primary insulation of the cores, on things like light fittings or junction boxes.
Sometimes this is encouraged by poor design of the product being fitted, and it does not facilitate easy and secure installation.
So many of these cheap products made abroad do not allow suitable space and cable clamping to make a nice job.
Also bear in mind that the original electrician may well have made sure all the cables were fully inside a junction box, and subsequent people have pulled on cables doing other work onsite which has exposed the primary insulation.
True, but that still doesn’t make it compliant!
@@timwoodhams958 Correct, I was just saying we should not necessarily blame bad workmanship on a sparky. It might have been a builder or plumber that was pulling on cables to move them clear of some thing they were doing. There are many approved products out there that do not properly hold the cable. A periodic inspection is a good thing.
Given your comments, I'm a retired ex tech electrician from the commercial world. I understand where you are coming from in that all those years ago the regs where different and so was the work ethic. 'Sparks' were the ones who were street wise, electricians the newbies. My initial start and apprenticeship was via a commercial company. I was advised, at the end of my apprenticeship to change companies many times. Mainly because some specialised in MICC.or Steel conduit, SWA, Swich Rooms, D1 JOBS( airports/petroleum sites/heavy industrial or Nuclear and docks.) all with different rules and set ups for mainly safety. I was fully cleared to work within Whitehall, Royal Palaces and secret bunkers- so all in all a varied career but above it all the most important part is the comradery, the fun, wind ups and general 'crack' was what was important. Now is far to serious, with many Sparks working on their own. When I finally left, the electrical world had change completely. Sparks working via agencies, farm labourers from Rumania given JIB cards and called electricians. Industrial work now is very poor and relies on the tests and the protection. Where you are seems the best of todays workplace. Good lUCK.
If the redundant gas pipe has no resistance to the earth bar, surely its already at the same potential? 🤔
I would rephrase "very experienced" to "very knowledgeable" for doing EICR's. Unfortunately 20 years experience of doing it wrong is not as good as 5 years experience of doing it right. You will always have people more driven to learn and will have more knowledge earlier on in their career than someone who doesn't give a hoot.
Couldn't agree more. I trained as an electrician about 9 years ago, never worked as an electrician but then trained as an inspector 7 years ago (both in college and on the job) and have been doing it ever since. If you wanted me to do an install it would take me for ever, but I can tell you immediately if something has been done not to regs and put it right. I've completed eicr's after 'experienced' sparks have done them and found numerous issues, not only with the 'experienced' sparks results and conclusions but also issues they missed entirely. When it comes to eicr's knowledge trump's experience, IMO.
@@waithereivegonetogethelp3240 It's a race to the bottom with eicrs. You quote a reasonable time to do it (at least a few hrs even on a 1 bed flat) and they bitch about the cost.... Can't win
John has such a soothing voice even when he’s having a rant it feels comforting.
Connected to water by plastic hoses, but still conduct through the water to bonded copper pipes? Is that what you mean?
More likely to be connected through the boiler I would have thought
Curious did you actually classify the down lights as a c2 If they were taped up would it make a difference Seems strange you would trace a loose earth but fail the install on a debatable coding
Good video, but 14:50 no that's a shite idea. DIYers and other trades have been tampering with electrics since the invention of the bloody stuff, it's nothing new. Also, qualifications, CPS's, etc don't immune someone from being shite, it just means they're officially shite. Take away ALL restrictions on electrical work, and let us just get on with the job that's my stance.
Restricting the purchase of consumer units to qualified sparks could never work in the real world nor should it! It’s like saying you can’t buy a car unless you have passed your driving test!
Isn't that his point? Why would you buy a car unless you've passed your driver's test? Lol
I think the British sarcasm may have got me there.
Very thorough, nice to see you guys going the extra mile! That lofts done out lovely. Maybe inspection points either in floor or bring em up to a maintenance free? Would that get a pass. Not sure I agree about the whole don't sell the consumer unit to the consumer... I prefer the on your head be it but also see the other side of the argument. Would you block earth sleeve or rcbos. Really difficult to enforce but maybe the whole lot laws and regs need an overhaul
We already have competent persons schemes... that are just paper tigers. Much of the shoddy work I have dealt with over the years has been by registered firms. As for restricting sales of cable... Mr(s) DIY will wire it in with flex or speaker cable, blocking consumer units won't stop the DIYer from messing around or the cowboys from bodging it up whilst fleecing the customer on parts costs, aside from which Chinese suppliers would open up shop to supply direct!
John has a small container of misc screws I used to too when doing security wiring too.
what are the roof rack conduit holders? would love to buy some for my VW golf wagon.
Had totally missed you had a Discord server until I heard John mention it in the video! Joined now 👍
Just remember that most people wouldn't touch their electricity supply sockets lights ect if it wasn't for You Tube the amount of times i get told that im not paying that much i can do it myself iv seen it on UA-cam and it only takes a couple of minutes. Also builders give sparks a bad name telling the customers that the spark will be round in the morning to do the electrical work when the builder himself botches it up. The other thing is the drive by EICRs why pay £300.00 for a EICR when Smeg Sparks can do it for a £100.00 this was only told to me last week by a multi house owner as long as i have a up to date ticket its not my problem if the tenants get electrocuted its not my name ot the Cert.
A landlord with a conscience, or even some integrity, to pay trust worthy electricians to make sure that their tenants should be safe, is what you should be worried about, but because they know they cant be held liable, is why things are so messed up.
quick question
when someone rewires your house aren't they supposed to test the rcd circuits with one of those mega units ?
why dont they make fused link cables just in case
The problem with the electrical industry is self-certification although electricians will never agree with that. Mark your own homework will never work in any industry and also self-certification is just rent-seeking. I have hired qualified electricians from decent websites and they have not always done a great job. Third party (building-control ?) paid-for sign-off of all works is the way to go and will improve standards and allow competent DIYers to do minor works.
Because you can't just pay off the 3rd party? 🤔
Let me get this straight you would pay some one to sign off work?
Sound’s dodgy to me?
“I know a bloke who’ll get you a mot, no bother only £40” 🧐
@@bertiebassett1972 The point is that someone else should check and sign-off work to ensure quality is adhered to. Like building control do for general building work. Now those schemes may also have their issues, but surely it is infinitely better than marking your own homework.
In my industry (I am not an electrician), we maintain quality by peer review. There are lots of mistakes, many inadvertent, that are picked up in review.
Just been through my time as a apprentice quick question, why do you not do your fig off 8 and end to ends for the ring final at the DB?
Easier to identify the incoming/outgoing cables for the cross connection tests.
If I were carrying out one of those inspections I would definitely do a quick pre-inspection ie checking consumer units, the shed outside the loft, plug sockets, light switches, and fittings, and pre-order any materials needed to carry out and snag any minor problems on the inspection, as far as the Electrical industry goes with the introduction of Rcds safety from electrocution has come on leaps and bounds and all the new testing equipment there is around it makes the job so much simpler especially testing tripping on Rcds and ECB S you guys now have really well-produced power tools battery driven again improving site safety and working conditions especially outside and with the introduction of the Landlord act on electrical safety testing that's a bottomless pit for more business and making money, And as far as registering electricians the same as gas safe engineers don't even go there That means every 5 years of being completely ree examined at costs of upward these days of 5 grand and then the spot check gas safe inspections,The Guy with the Beard has got it easy peasy which ever way a job goes he gets paid................Its the Boss I feel sorry for.
John is it 0.22 meg or 22 kilohms? Need to read my new brown book
Sparky from Australia here its great watching your videos and seeing all the different methods and gear you guys have even down to the shoe covers! Same problems over here unfortunately too many DIYers causing issues and undercutting guys that are doing the job the way it should be done.
A DIYer is not 'undercutting' anyone. They are doing their own home improvements, swapping time for money. Nothing wrong with that. And the idea that DIYers are always worse than professionals is just wrong. Plenty of us know what the regs are and take a lot more time and care than your average tradesperson.
@@xxwookey Is that in the UK or Aus? Here it's illegal to do your own electrical and it also voids your home insurance. The number of accidents if seen as a result of DIY far outweigh the ones that do it right.
@@Noodough I'm in the UK. You appear to be missing my point which is that DIY is not 'undercutting'. DIYers pay in time - often quite a lot of it. There is no moral imperative to pay someone else to do a job if you are capable of doing it yourself. There may be legal requirements, but that's outside the point I was making.
All making electrical equipment unavailable to the public will do is push people to ebay and the usual suspects where you'll never stop them selling the equipment, where the equipment will be of unknown quality and safety. You can't stop DIY, and trying to do so will just make it even more unsafe.
While I don't think changing a consumer unit or rewiring a whole house is something a DIYer should be doing, there's plenty of things I believe are fully within the capabilities of a competent DIYer when it comes to electrical. Some people can't afford the high costs of getting a qualified electrician in, especially for smaller jobs where I've found it extremely hard to get an electrician in at all because they'd rather the big money jobs. I paid £600 to have 6 downlights put in and an extractor fan changed, lights and fan were screwfix basic stuff so less than £150 in materials. A lot of people are gonna look at that £450 saving for doing it DIY and just do it, no matter what you do, and many people are competent enough to do that job DIY as much as sparks will say they're not.
Then add in the fact that it's really REALLY difficult for joe public to find tradespeople who aren't cowboys. Sure do a Electrical Safe Registery or whatever but that's still no guarantee, I've had Gas Safe registered guys do abysmal work it's no guarantee that the guy you're gonna get can be bothered to do the work properly.
What’s your opinion on the Electrical industry?
I’m a four week part P candidate having retired from 36 years in aerospace electrical systems design and sales. There was no other way to enter the industry at my age. The technical part of the training and the exams was not a major hurdle, however real world experience, time on the tools and selection of appropriate materials was my blind spot that I was fully aware of. I began carrying out minor works and was building my experience portfolio to join a CPS by shadowing a long experienced spark. As I was about to apply to NICIEC, their entry criteria changed and I now needed Level 3 Test and Inspection. As I don’t want to do Landlord EICRs or car chargers, and don’t plan to supervise any employees I was a bit set back by the need to spend more time and money, just because the hurdle had been raised. I’ve done notifiable work, documented my planning and progress through testing then asked my mentor (NICEIC member) to certify with no issues found. So I’m a bit frustrated as a conscientious mature bloke, entering the industry as a gentle end to my working life, needing to pay endless fees to join and maintain CPS schemes that seem focussed on promoting a traditional entry path instead of an individual’s demonstrated competence. I think a mandatory annual fee to be assessed as competent is the way forward but it should be tiered, depending on what work you plan to do.
its shocking lol
If your smart, capable, and committed to doing a great job that trumps most things, yes experience is important but only if it’s continually built upon by CPD. It’s not technically challenging to do the testing rather where experience helps is in making judgement calls but some situations can be so different that it becomes a new process every time you step through the door. EICR is a minimum set of testing for a installation.
Refreshing to see I'm not the only one with EICR woes...
I wouldn’t be surprised if part of the problem is down to a shortage/unavailability of tradesmen, forcing homeowners to attempt things they haven’t before. I have been trying to get a quotation for some soundproofing since January; at least half a dozen builders have either not responded to my enquiries, not showed up when supposed to quote or ‘ghosted’ me mid way through a conversation. I am now at the end of my tether, and have no choice other than to attempt it myself. Perhaps the same is happening in the electrical industry?
Great content as always. I am surprised however how little content you and others show on insulation resistance tests on installed circuits. Seemingly concentration on R1+R2 readings. Is there a mystery behind it ? 🙂
Very nice video. Lots of insight, plenty of technical detail. I now feel a lot more confident with my DIY electrics. 😁
Seen poor electrics on new builds.Electricains all need their 2391 and bs7671 and since September proof of installation ability via formal exam.But seen lots of homeowner work that's been unsafe.I know a retired electrical engineer that has done some work to very high standard and does not hold a single trade exam except for his degree in engineering.
You’re talking sense.The introduction of Part P was the biggest problem.
There is good and bad in all trades. And even the "best" will make mistakes. Regulation can be a good thing, but we are dictated to enough already in this country.. most people have the common sense to call someone in the know; but being part of a competent person scheme is no measure of quality.
Exactly this, UA-cam sparks have even uncovered registered electricians who have done an unsafe install / bad quality and had to rectify it.
another awesome video.... thanks for the info shared
I tend to agree with a Gas Safe Register style body for electricians but not with stopping the public buying stuff. They tried with Gas Fittings and Appliances around the time Part P was pushed to get that done and because so many places, ScrewFix etc were selling boilers/ cookers/ hobs and fittings already the cat was out the bag.
There's a lot more legal weight when it comes to gas if someone installs an appliance and doesn't register it and isn't deemed competent, (has to be Gas Safe registered can't be previously qualified but retired etc now) where as electrical works are seldom enforced to the same degree, that needs to be addressed.
DNO electrical work on the supply tends to be sealed with registered sealing pliers. Maybe if all electricians had to seal their work in the same manner it might make a difference.
Keep smiling John 😊
EICRs are mind melting how the hell do you not loose it? (Hard drugs or alcohol?)
I dread the bed that has to be moved (how much dust? Adult toys😳😂) or the greasiest kitchen extract fan.
Trying to explain to a client of the dangers of a micro wave being used in a bathroom (don’t ask) or why some one wired a outside socket from a porch light in 0.75mm flex.
Yes I tend to find it’s a trader either a “handy man” or “builder” that’s carried out the electrical work with no idea of how dangerous of how “whacking a light up” could possibly be. After the amount of insulation tape holding twisted cables I found today I’d happily buy them some wagos 😊
I did some downlights for a lady. I spent an hour measuring them out. She said what are you doing? I said we are measuring them out, so they look nice! Rubbish, she said I want one there one there, one three, one there, on there!! I hate symmetry!
Great tip!
When trying to estimate the age of installation the make of the oldest consumer unit gives a hint as it is now in hut. So I would suggest 1970s so hut is against regulations should be Rcd protecting sockets
There are some 'shocking!!' electricians trading but also some very good ones as I see on this video. Regulation doesn't stop poor quality nor stop people from buying as it will just go knock off, underground purchases or re-use the old stuff. I'm thinking back to the 60's and 70's where there was some really good tradespersons and also some really good DIY although you didn't call it that then. From my own experience from being at school aged 12 putting a plug on was one of the tasks. You can't have a nanny state and just looking at who didn't observe Covid rules just gives you a clue. People need to be responsible for their own actions or work but if they want to kill themselves with electricity make sure that don't kill someone else. I worry so much when I take on a new member of staff and they do not have the basic of ohms law!. maybe you can rely on modern test kit but I really want people to know the theory. Rant over!
@ 16:00 the insulation resistance test to the copper pipe is it done at 500V sorry I am new learner! Love the videos
yes, 500v is preferred
@@brianhewitt8618 thanks
what trousers are they ? look great !😀
Nice work John.
I somewhat agree that consumer units could/should be controlled to a qualified installer, however other lower voltage components (up to 240v) I'm not so sure on - replacing a switch/ceiling rose with an identical unit? reasonably low risk, but you can blow things up if you don't isolate or terminate correctly. DIYing up a garage light/socket, if you understand how to support the cable cable/circuit sizing/making suitable connections; but after you complete some of those minor adjustments successfully you might be tempted to try something more serious, and it becomes a slippery slope.
Home owners also have the difficulty of finding a quality electrician; most come with a caveat of "they turned up 2hrs late" or "did a few jobs for me, then didn't hear from them again", so lots of people learn towards DIY for "simple jobs".
The other issue is that some electricians that are closer to VAT registration may ask customers to purchase a materials list to keep their turnover lower, requiring the purchaser be on a list would close this "loophole"
In theory - good idea, in practise - not as sure!
The UK electrical system, and UK/Euro grid is very reliable; however I don't think the trade has ever had a "great" reputation.
What's so special about consumer units? You need a sufficient understanding for any new circuit. If you can do one, then you can do several, and a CU is just a neat way of splitting off multiple circuits from an incomer.
Your pot of spares resembles perfectly my left holster pocket 😅
What footwear were you wearing going up the stairs?
Great video 👍
Having recently returned to the industry I’m absolutely gobsmacked by the appalling work I’m seeing from so called qualified electricians. I’ve been following one particular NICEIC company whose EICR’s appear to be complete works of fiction or ignorance. Plus, the remedial work they’re charging for isn’t being done. It’s attitude rather than qualifications or registration that it falls down on, it really winds me up that some people don’t give a shit and stopping the DIYers won’t help the industry as much as a decent independent auditor scheme would. That will never happen sadly as no-one would fund it, especially in the current times.
There is no need to go the gas-safe route. What is needed is action to be taken against qualified electricians doing shoddy work.
Great video, well done.
very informative John
What a top top confident spark you have there Jordan.
I'd love for the electricians who sub for Persimmon to be barred from buying consumer units.
I respect John for this.
Don’t know about the industry, but I do know great electricians when I see them. The Artisan sparks and apprentices are the guys I want to fix my DIY work. 😁🇬🇧👍🏻
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Great video John 😎
Your appliances are rubber hosed off the water supply
I think alot of the poor work is down to customer thinking this are a five minute job.
So that’s what they get. Instead of taking time and effort to do it right these companies are all under cutting each other which leads to poor work.
I think a better solution is any electrical work needs to be insurance backed. So if it’s found to be non-compliant a claim would go against your insurance and you would be liable for an excess fee.
John is officially my favorite Artisan!!!
Great to hear!
And the most handsome of them 😄
Absolutely agree on restricting the sale of electrical installation materials to registered electrical contractors.
Sadly in the UK that has been made nearly impossible by grubby profiteering politicians and their very unhealthy relationship with corporate interests.
The demise of apprenticeships is down to Margaret Thatcher who encouraged the conversion of Technical Colleges and Polytechnics into universities. Apprenticeships declined along with this push to university education.
are we in Nazi germany now? What next, DIYers have to be licensed to think! This is a ridiculous idea and anyone should be embarrassed to even put it forward let alone support it. The majority of unsafe work is done by dodgy qualified electricians. The number of home owners that would dare to touch electrics is minuscule.
Did this fella work for the DNO ??
great content keep it up
Kind of can’t agree with non electricians being restricted from buying consumer units if they have enough knowledge to buy well, installing completely different, saying that I deal with Booking emergency jobs for people off power and the quality of workmanship I see is shocking poorly fitted meter tails exposed copper borrowed neutrals and unfused connections over 3 metres
I’ve seen some bad work done by so-called qualified electricians oh my God a diyer would knocks spots off them
Quality work costs, and thats why things are the way they are, if people cannot afford and electrician how on earth can they progress? I note all the homes you work in are middle class homes, lets see some work done on working class people homes, who cannot afford you, and I think your eyes will open up even more!!
Great video, would love to work with you guys one day.
This is the result of subcontractor culture, greed by every boss ive ever worked for, and the stupid short timeframes they quote to win the job in the first place.
And your comment about the experience to do eicr, your talking ideal world, I know lots of totally new people doing EICRs, good or not up for debate but your well outnumbered by college kids doing them than experienced bloke like you.
Seeing you climb around that house makes me happy I stayed commercial.
15;30 i put seals on boards
You mentioned AFDD's being part of the 18th edition. I'm still not sold on these devices now being mandatory for specific properties. Originally designed for the north American market due to lots of domestic dwellings being made of wood. Obviously a great deal of new builds are internal Wooden framed but it's not been an issue in the UK for fires to break out even in HMOs. 32 year's experience tells me it's over the top to force these into the market for a negligible risk. Instead of bringing the standards of installation up. It's always implementation of the stick. Insurance policy has driven this through. Poor installation is a significant contribution to faults and fires. Electrician's should and always take pride in the installation and stop doing rough work. I see it most days with younger people in the trade . it's poor training. Just no interest in the people they do the work for who expect the electrician to do a good job all of the time. It should have stayed a risk assessment of each building. But what do I know 🤷♂️
Nolly left Periphery to become an electrician??? 🤔
12:42 is that a spark i see.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
The next ten to twenty years is going to expose a massive shortage of electrically experience and qualified people.
It already is, but the situation is going to get worse.
There actually needs to be a fast track, cost effective scheme to attract industry experienced/skilled people to come back or switch their field of operation.
I am a qualified engineer that has worked in electrical/electronic engineering for 30yrs.
I have worked on installing a massive range of electrical systems (Radar, EW, Air traffic control, Fusion reactors, Subsea robotics, Heat pump control, CCTV and Communication).
I have looked at the route required to be a registered electrician, but it is just not practical.
Many of the regulatory changes in the last couple of decades have pushed many skilled people out to be replaced by those with qualifications but no understanding or skills (Not those on this channel, I have been quite impressed with these guys).
The industry has become locked in the vicious circle of poorly implemented regulation and escalating costs of membership.
This encourages two types of business to be successful, the very good ones like Artisan and the Cowboys who rip people off and do poor work.
You are going to see and increase in poor quality work when doing EICRs, due this scenario.
More regulations and policing, simply escalates costs, and encourages the cowboys and poor DIY efforts.
Unfortunately John's suggestion in this video would push even more experienced people out the door.
Sorry to be all doom and gloom, and I am now off to fill in my application for a job at ASDA ;)
I can affirm with certainty that qualified electricians do bodge work all the time and when they're not in the mood to bother or are in a hurry to get to the next job will do all kinds of things that people say is "DIY" when it's not, and even if you get people to inspect the work, sometimes THEY might not be in the mood take a quick look around and go "yeah looks good to me" because they're not in the mood to bother detailing the problems on paper.
And if people weren't able to buy cables then you got a government sanctioned monopoly where only a few companies are able to change out an outlet, there's already few electricians as it is if you did this then there'd be waiting lists months long which would cause it's own problems and hazards and when you say "we used to be the best in the world" we still are trust me you'd lose your mind if you saw continental electrics, apart from Germany where it's usually good most of them are shocking.
In some countries they seal up the consumer units but it's as a matter of insurance so that if anything goes wrong for a number of years you or someone else in the same firm would be sent back to fix it for free, that makes sense from the consumer's pov but to just be forced to hire more expensive electricians for minor jobs as a matter of government bureaucracy? No
Dont get your fingers on the copper!!That wil rust because off the fatty things on your finger!!!And then you will have a bad connection again!!So keep the copper clean!!So thats why we have solid copper in our wires!
That one video was enough for me to unsubscribe . Nothing worse than people complaining, just install the sockets and stop complaining about how under appreciated the trade is good luck with everything .
👋🏻
Bye then
Trust me I conduct EICR’s and they are not fun by a long chalk routing through another humans dust a debris and keeping a cheerful smile while remembering a code for wether or not a light fitting is ok for a toilet but not a bathroom but is it over 2.4mtrs please can I just go to the pub now😂😂