You CAN Get SHOCKED by a Neutral Wire! This is How...
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- Опубліковано 4 січ 2021
- Hey Gang! In today's video we tackle a serious problem in this bathroom and that is this shared neutral. In this video we do our best to explain what a shared neutral is, why it's wrong and what can go bad. This was a critical step in the renovation and we're glad to have it knocked out! Thanks for watching and we'll see ya in the next one!
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Hey gang, a couple of clarifications on this video:
1) The black tape you see on the neutral was put there by me to indicate that it was the neutral that had voltage on it; it is not identifying that wire as a hot . Should've used a different color tape. I removed it at the end.
2) All wires were determined to be safe after I turned off the breaker but someone turned on a 3-way switch in another room; this action energized the neutral.
@John Lawson it's not good practice to stand on top of an A frame ladder. Though often one has to just take a bit of extra care (and risk...) so you can save the 1.5hr getting the proper ladder while the sky gets dark and you run out of work day.
@@MintStiles I have found myself on tip-toe on a 14' a-frame to avoid scrubbing an AP installation while the project manager tries to get a scissor lift rented. Not something I like to make a habit of, but when you don't get paid full rate for failed sites, you make due.
@@templebrown7179 yeah. Unfortunately that the reality of things. Ideally everyone would have every tool needed for every job, but that's just not practical nor realistic. I am certainly not advocating taking unnecesary risks, but most experienced professionals have the common sense to gauge the risk vs getting F'n thing done already.
He also was not solely on the ladder. He had good handholds in the attic hatch. If the ladder would have failed him I bet he would have not fallen.
@@ecospider5 How can you be sure of that? Quite an odd statement.
As an electrical apprentice, I have to say that, for a general construction guy, you have a better understanding of electrical circuits than I feel half the electricians I've come across. Way more than myself. This is an incredibly useful video. Thanks.
Thx for showing appreciation to someone whom really wants to not have a DIY guy get killed or injured ! I am currently in Philippines and most electricians here are trying their best to kill as many as they can ! They haven't a clue as to why a ground wire may be needed as they insist there has never ever been a need to use one in Philippines ! They don't even know what a GFI breaker is !
I was shocked more on neuts than hots when I did electrical. Part of that was me being a commercial installer and doing 3 phase panels where code said 1 neut for 3 hot is fine. Biggest things I will tell you is: 1) always check cause breakers fail and stay on as well sometimes. 2)Do not get too relaxed when working with life in T-Bar, the bar is usually grounded and easy to ground yourself and shock yourself. 3)If you get a new tool and work around live wires and it last about 2 weeks, probably will be there for a while. Most of us seem to blow up our new strippers in a couple of days of purchase. 4)I do not think there is a way to sound many after getting hit and the guys will check on you, once you are deemed OK you will be made fun of LOL.
As a former electrician, this is an awesome video.
As the son of an electrician, Thank you so very much. Its been several years since he passed, but seeing that wire pulling trick after 10-15 years brought a smile, some tears, and several good memories. So thank you.
Gotta appreciate your concern for electrical safety BUT there's more of an immediate danger and an OSHA violation going on at 13:00 . Whats up with that?!? Well, at least he was wearing knee pads!!! Hahahahahahhahah, funny as hell!!! Reeeally? Come on, man!
@@vicferrari89 you're complaining that a guy was pulling wire while the other was feeding it to him?
@@cheddarballs864 No, he is writing about Paul standing on the ladder top shelf. AT MOST, HE SHOULD BE 2 STEPS DOWN FROM THE TOP. If he needed to be up that high, he needed a taller ladder. Ladder safety is very important: I had a ladder skid away from me as I attempted to come back down from my attic. I fell, landed on my back, bounced my head off the floor. I cracked my pelvis in 2 places, spent months in pain as I healed. My head was a bit sore, no brain damage.
@@jeffryblackmon4846 get your balance up
@@cheddarballs864 I've known two people that had fallen from a ladder. Both were horrific. One had one of his arms badly damaged. While the doctor managed to stitch it back together, it will have limited movement forever plus pain. The other hit his head hard and was in the hospital for a month. I would tell anyone to be very careful while going up the ladder. Don't ever assume it is just a 6 or 8-foot ladder, and nothing will ever happen even if you fall.
As an electrician who took a nasty ride on a 277V shared (unknown to me at the time) neutral many years ago, I commend you for highlighting how dangerous neutrals can potentially be. So often I see people make bold assumptions about those little white/grey bastards. Assumptions can get you killed, folks.
Amen brother, 480 has same effect ps IT HURT
@@watup110875 Yep. 480 can be pretty scary when shit goes wrong.
Luckily never been hit by anything above 120 but I always try to respect all wires. Colors dont matter. ;) thats what your meters for.
@@justinbrewer9326 amen to that, meters save guessing kills
I encountered the same problem while replacing high bay lights in a warehouse; very unpleasent, but valuable, lesson. Now, I use my tester even on neutrals AND grounds when servicing old wiring.
I’m a licensed electrician and you did a great job explaining everything . You are very knowledgeable. Keep up the great work !
Do the “up until the shock” video, maybe reenact the moment of truth.
😂😳
I second this! 😂
ElectroBoom: Has entered the chat
:D
@@EQINOX187 yes, lets hear the ice maker story!!!
Paul, you’re a natural teacher. It’s not something everybody has. We all benefit from your depth of experience + superb ability to communicate and narrate as you go - this all laid down on a polished video product. It’s rare to see all three areas put together but you’ve done it and it shows! My deepest thanks and appreciation for taking the time to bring us such a gift.
Thank you very much Bill, we so appreciate that 👍👍👍
🇬🇧 Thanks from England fascinating and informative even though our systems are slightly different.
I not sure about those wire nuts or the balmy 120v high amp system ..... The white neutral wire colour is much safer than the European .
That guy is horrible. This is coming from an actual electrician. Don’t take any information about electrical unless it’s from a ticketed electrician. And even then stay out of it and be smart and safe. It’s dangerous stuff if not don’t properly. And wastes lots of time and money when done incorrectly and puts everyone’s lives at risk.
@@gurtbeef123 We're all interested in why this guy is horrible? Be specific. Take as much space as needed.
His diagnosis was clear and concisely explained. There are a lot of really lousy electrical videos on UA-cam. This isn't one of them.
He even left room for people like you and I to read between the lines when he spoke about his electrical demonstration hesitancy.
Honestly! My sentiments exactly!
Been a commercial electrician for 20+ years. I find your videos very informative. Most of the crazy installations I have seen, have been on side jobs at other people's houses. I see why the NEC code books are updated every 3 years. Some practices should not be continued due to safety reasons. Your videos thoroughly explain why. Please continue making your videos.
thanks Chris
Explanations and demonstrations by you give me more confidence and better understanding of my work as a DIYer....thank you.
As a teacher with 27 years experience I agree with everyone who says you are great at explaining this. You would have made a great teacher and I am glad to see you sharing your real world experience and knowledge with others. Great work!!
Much appreciated Marcel 👍 thx for the support 👊
As an electrician I wanted to say your explanation was very well done. Simple and easy to understand for those who haven’t been exposed to it. I’d always urge someone to hire a licensed electrician. That neutral is just one of many things you could come across. Unfortunately an electricians biggest danger is other electricians 😂.
Very true. And that goes for some inspectors.
One of the most important rules about neutrals.....Thank you for posting
Absolutely excellent. I am a property manager in Manhattan (12 props) and I constantly coming up against this stuff. Thank you for explaining so well.
This is why I always check all my wires, hot, load, ground, neutral, etc. before I touch them. I don't care if I've flipped breakers or not, I want to know if they've got juice before I start messing with it. Electricity is one of the things I give the utmost respect to.
It's for the reason you showed that code says you cannot and should not bond multi circuits and sub panel neutrals and grounds anywhere but the source of your main disconnect. You don't want electricity finding its way around.
its the only sneaky bastard that we give respect to
You should also check to see if it is dead because the breakers may be miss marked.
Michael. I was wondering about that and why he didn’t point out that the neutrals and grounds are not bonded at the sub panel.
That’s where I would have looked first. Of course if I saw it was a three way switch… that would have been my clue.
Gotta appreciate your concern for electrical safety BUT there's more of an immediate danger and an OSHA violation going on at 13:00 . Whats up with that?!? Well, at least he was wearing knee pads!!! Hahahahahahhahah, funny as hell!!! Reeeally? Come on, man!
@@vicferrari89 always someone to show he "knows" more....... troll.
Please make a video on your worst shocking experience. I am interested!! I do electrical work all the time. I learned a lesson a few days ago while working on a GFCI outlet. I tested it with a plug in tester. It showed no power. Then I got shocked when attempting to remove the black wire on the outlet. The outlet was bad!! I learned to never believe just the plug in tester on a GFCI outlet!!!! Always follow up with a voltmeter test on the hot and neutral wires before engaging them!!!!!!!!
Very nice job explaining the feed back problem with the neutral. I really appreciate your attention to detail!! That's why I continue to watch. We think a like!!
I always use a voltage sensor pen they beep if they detect power on a wire, or outlet buy a good one. I use it all the time before I start working on any wires because never know when flip a breaker if power is back feeding on a neutral.
I have to say, ever since watching, you are definitely the all around fix it pro👍🏼 30 plus years of me doing this and every time I watch a tear runs down my face. Clear & concise step by step instructions 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
This was a great explanation on shared neutrals.
I'm going to share this in my class this week. I myself am an electrical apprentice and saw the thumbnail for your video, and I'm glad I clicked on it.
Found this video by accident-- I have recently joined the remodeling trade and found this to be one of the most informative electrical videos I've seen yet. In other words, thank you-- looking forward to more.
Thanks for this info - It has made me "" Think First "" before grabbing ANY white wires now that you have showed me this !!! Most of us DIY people just think of the black wire having power, and whites are safe - you showed us different, and to be cautious when working with electric wires !!!!!!!!! You probably saved a few lives !!!
amen to that!
The video is well done. As a power lineman I’ve responded to 2 fatalities where town employees replacing copper water services, when they cut the old service they were electrocuted. Opening the house ground and the difference of potential was the issue. After these happened advised plumbers to install jumpers across the water device before cutting the pipe. Both homes were older. Open neutrals will kill you, electricity will take the least resistant path to ground and if you make yourself a jumper between open neutrals, bad things happen.
WELL DONE... THE WAY YOU BROKE THIS DOWN. THOSE OF US IN THE BUSINESS AND THOSE OF US WHO JUST WANT TO KNOW, WE APPLAUD YOU SIR.
Yeah I want to hear about the ice maker story. Really good video and yep, I too have been surprised by neutrals before. When I did my kitchen remodel and had the walls open and could really visualize more how the electrical was run through out the house, I deduced what was going on. Some neutrals are tied together in some of the boxes. Now, whenever I shut off a circuit, I use a little wireless voltage detector to make absolutely sure it’s safe and I don’t have to shut off a second circuit
Since he said he got shocked doing plumbing I'm guessing it was an older house that hadn't had any work done in a long time. On many pre 1950s homes the electrical system was grounded using the homes plumbing before people realized just how stupid that was. And there were still a lot of homes after that where the service ground was simply placed too close to plumbing which created the same situation though usually unintentionally. In the early 70s most areas building codes started requiring that the electrical system be grounded using a proper ground and insuring sufficient clearance from any plumbing. So you don't see that issue really at all on anything built after 1970 or so.
@corey Babcock It is now, but wasn't in the past. In fact, back in the days of knob and tube, it was relatively common.
@@Rowgue51 True enough, but still now metallic plumbing is still required to be grounded at least at the plumbing entrance. Haven't you seen the ground connected to the plumbing via #6 bare wire with a big clamp? The idea being that a hot-plumbing ground shouldn't energize all your metallic plumbing fixtures.
@@fromagefrizzbizz9377 yes but that's a lot different then intentionally using the plumbing to ground your entire electrical system. When the plumbing is your ground it creates a situation we're if you do any work to the plumbing did severs that connection then your entire electrical system is ungrounded
@@Rowgue51 Correct. In short: Copper pipe is supposed to be grounded, but it can't be used as the grounding conductor. Which makes me wonder how electrical wiring going near copper plumbing at the entrance (which until late was almost always guaranteed to be metallic) can be a problem. it's supposed to be grounded, so if a hot touches it, the breaker trips rather than making your whole plumbing system go live.
You were a recommendation and I am grateful. I’ve watched a bunch of your videos and really like your style of doing things Right. As a shade tree do-it-your selfer I really appreciated this one. I live in a house where the electrician was very old school and switched the neutrals to operate light fixtures. Luckily I had an electrician friend who taught me how to recognize and fix this correctly and it has most likely saved me from getting shocked badly. This video showed me there are far more dangerous situations out there to be aware of. Thank you for taking the time to do these videos, I appreciate your work ethic.
SO FAR THE BEST ELECTRICIAN IVE EVER SEEN YET.
THANK YOU FOR SHARING THAT WITH US. :)
I appreciate ur honestly and professionalism. I’m an electrical student in trade school and I’ll come to UA-cam for some pro tips and I’m getting sick of the DIY people giving advice that turn out to be completely backwards. I like hearing from licensed electricians and what they have to say about a task. If I understood correctly, you’re not an electrician, but you have experience with professionals? This video was educational I enjoyed it.
As an Electrician myself, I thought that was a great explanation. And your trouble shooting skill are great as well. Good Job! Just a side note. It is legal to share neutrals. It's called a multi-wire branch circuit. However, current code requires handle ties be installed on the breakers so both circuits will trip at same time.
Thx I sure appreciate that 👍 circuits 19 and 20 are same phase so I had to separate neutrals or move circuits in the panel and install a 2 pole breaker. I thought viewers might want to see that abandoned neutral connected properly so I went with option 1
@@StudPack shared neutrals on the same leg (phase) is really dangerous. That means if both hots were at 15 amps in use that the neutral would have 30 amps which would heat up that 14 gauge wire too much. If it were my house I’d probably just move the breakers to opposite legs and make sure they trip together. But I’m aware of the risks shown here.
Can you please explain how sequential numbers are the same leg? That’s not obvious. If that is a tandem breaker it should be the same number with an “a” and “b”. I think you may want to renumber the circuits to clarify which leg each is on.
Whoever wired that shared neutral on the same leg previously is clearly incompetent. (Not you of course. You did a fine job fixing it).
@@neilbrookins8428 you sir have no idea what you’re talking about.
@@dallas5374 I appreciate constructive criticism. But from reading your comment, I can’t tell which part of my reply you were referring to. Can you please be more specific?
Re: " It is legal to share neutrals."
Legal, shmegal. That's why I treat code as a minimum.
E.g., I will not use 14-gauge wire.
I can't believe I'm just finding this channel now! Best explanation by far. VERY thorough, yet easy to understand and eloquent at the same time. and yes! PLEASE DO MORE ELECTRICAL VIDEOS!! These types of videos explaining everything in plain old English and easy words for a newbie like me that's barely beginning to learn about the trade are a total life saver! I'm about to start an apprenticeship soon so this makes me feel better knowing what to expect before they start throwing technical terms at me lol Keep them coming!! I subscribed!
Very good video. Yes give us more Electrical story’s. I had lots of training in school. And have been working in the trade for years. But today as my son was helping wire up a ceiling fan. The white wire bite him. Older homes can have some crazy wiring done over the years. Be safe guys.
Yeah I'm doing a flip house electrical just had buried hot wires, 2 circuits for the kitchen all wires pretty much connected through junction boxes. It was hell thank God the attic didn't have toxic insulation. I'm only 22 btw so still learning but those old houses omg.
This is literally more entertaining than watching TV, as a fellow electrician
I appreciate this video. As a DIY guy I do a bit of everything even when I probably shouldn’t 😳😆 and this opens my eyes about being safe bottom line. Fear was always the hot black wire but I knew white wasn’t always safe but didn’t suspect full back feeds. Yikes. You can’t just trust everything for what you think it should be. Thanks!
I’m a licensed electrician and neutrals are always scary . You did a wonderful job with this . Great job I hope everyone learned something.
Thx Auston!!
@@StudPack Gotta appreciate your concern for electrical safety BUT there's more of an immediate danger and an OSHA violation going on at 13:00 . Whats up with that?!? Well, at least he was wearing knee pads!!! Hahahahahahhahah, funny as hell!!! Reeeally? Come on, man!
@@vicferrari89 just relax bud
I would much prefer to learn about electrical from this man than from many of the other people who post videos. Your explanation was clear and thorough, but also short, sweet and to the point. I appreciate this very much. Thank you.
It's clear you guys truly care about people.
This is what good men look like ❤
You are easy to follow when troubleshooting. I like the fact you aren't afraid to go up to the attic. Great instruction and presentation. You are a natural teacher. Thanks for sharing.
Nicely done explanation of the problems with common neutrals. I've run across this same situation numerous times. Luckily I've never been zapped in that way ( although I've taken my share of "hits" in 40 years...). I encourage you to keep doing videos about typical electrical jobs involved with remodels. It's not only informative, but could really help someone who's not in the trade to not make a possibly fatal mistake taking on more than they should!
I clicked on your video completely at random but I must say I am impressed. I’ve watched many videos similar to yours but yours was really well done. You’re well spoken, great tips, great common sense and great knowledge! At almost 50 I helped my dad and uncles for years so I’ve learned enough about electrical work to trust myself doing my own. For those that aren’t as sure in their knowledge and abilities you did a great job! I’m definitely adding your channel to my line up of subscriptions. I look forward to the videos I’ve missed and new ones as I love DIYing my own home when possible.
Much appreciated Kent thx👍💪
I absolutely love the electrical videos! Thanks to you guys, I was able to install a ceiling fan into my bedroom today. It was a lot of work! I had to replace the plastic ceiling box with a metal junction box with a side mounting plate and add a grounding screw. I have next to no experience and thanks to watching you guys i was able to get my brain working and solve all of the problems myself! Such a rewarding feeling being able to do these projects yourself!
What a professional! Love the way you explained it. It is time for me to stop poking around and call an electrician. Just may have saved my life. Thank you!
Great video. Thanks for doing it. I have been doing electrical work nonprofessionally for over 50 years and I always check the neutral to see if it's energized, but I have never run into one that actually was energized. It's nice to know that I have not been wasting my time. I have seen so many botched wiring jobs that I always figured that someday I would run into a job where someone energized a neutral. You did a good job explaining how that happened. I was always assuming that it would just be a do it yourselfer that didn't understand that black is hot and white is neutral. I never thought about a shared neutral. I guess you never get too old to learn something. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
Same for me... always test with a voltmeter, both the hot and neutral (to each other and each to ground). Never, ever assume.
Great video ! I have been doing electrical wiring for a number of years and renovations can (usually do) have surprises with them. Electrical wiring is no exception. Working with electricity is safe only when you know exactly what you are doing. Electrical codes are important and also, hiring the right people to do your wiring on your panel is too. Your insurance on your home depends on getting the proper permits, following all codes and the final inspection by the Province or State Electrical Inspector. Don't play the "go cheap" to save on $ when it comes to electricity. Your mortgage insurance will be both, void and null should your Insurance company Fire Inspector find, after a fire code violations (and believe me, they will be looking for reasons to get out of paying you. Know what you are doing, follow all codes and get an Inspection completed before you put the final touches together.
I like the way you are to the point, detailed , using simple terms everyone can understand. Easy to follow along and make sense of.
This duffer is now a lot wiser. Thanks for this video on the dangers of neutrals.
So great to see that there are still people that actually *care* about their work. Fantastic stuff, gents.
Great video! I learned my lesson years ago when I was remodeling an old house with knob and tube wiring. It was common with that type wiring to simply pick up the closest neutral wire. A ceiling light on the first floor might tap the neutral from a wall outlet on the second floor. Splices were made between floors and inside walls by simply scraping away the insulation, wrapping the bare end of the branch circuit around the scraped area and cover it with cloth tape. No wire nuts, no junction boxes! The result, EVERY neutral had the potential to be hot.
Thx Tom 👍
Wow I am an electrician really green only 2 + year never seen anything like that that sounds so scary.
I learned this lesson myself while doing some DIY electrical work at our new house. That's when I learned that I had a light switch housing which had 2 separate circuits running through it (and it was ALSO containing a 3-way connection!)
As someone who has done some pretty extensive rewiring, I really appreciate that those runs are labeled so well.
I love watching your educational electrical videos! Really like the one when the two three-way switches didn't work properly and the receptacle was only live when the switch by the front door was on! Thanks for taking the time to do all your videos they are interesting and educational! I'm just to do it yourselfer but enjoy doing most of my own electrical on my houses and some rentals!
3:55-6:05 Basics.
6:06-6:55 Explaining the breaker for the circuit under discussion.
6:55-9:00 Showing the problems in the actual circuit and explaining how it will be solved.
9:00-10:47 Showing the problem in a circuit diagram.
10:47-11:48 Solving the problems.
In brief, the problem was that two 120-V (L-N) branch circuits (of the same phase/leg) were sharing the same neutral wire to the panel. So when the main neutral wire is disconnected, now the L-N loads on one branch circuit will be in series with the L-N loads on the other circuit. Hence there will be a voltage drop across each group of loads. So there will be voltage at the middle (i.e. the common neutral of the two groups) with respect to the neutral busbar/ground.
Like many others in this comment section, I really hope you do the electrical safety vids. Your guy's videos are so informative!
Electricity has a auto-training feature built in. Touch it and see for yourself.
Taught by electrician..always treat wires as if they are live... he sure did..
ditto
take it with a grain of salt. the neutral should not be hot when the breaker is off. if it is then the electrician broke code and wirenutted 2 circuits together.
@@jaden2790 That, is completely incorrect. A neutral shares A and B phase.
Definitely please show more electrical. Love the way you explain it. I was hesitant to learn but now watching a few of your video encouraged me to learn more. Thanks!
Just a quick note to tell you how much I enjoy your videos. You have great knowledge and I have learned alot. Many thanks.
I tell you what. The people that commissioned you to do this remodel are really blessed! You are really good. I love you videos!
Yes, but don't ask him about ladder safety whatever you do!!!!!!! Watch starting at 13:01
I would love to see more electrical videos, your really good at explaining it, and I feel like I actually learn!
Paul, I actually experienced the same neutral/Grd Electrical charge with circuit breaker off in the panel. I discovered what you perfectly explained today in this phenomenal you tube video. I really appreciate your great craftsmanship and teaching skills!
We want more electrical videos! You explain it in such a simple way! Thank You!
Great simple explanations. Yes, I'd love to see more electrical videos, especially ones that highlight the more frequent mistakes from previous work that you have encountered and fixed.
I am really shocked to see Paul use the "test" wire to turn on the lights. Great explanation on how the current flow and fixed the problem.
Just found a shared neutral thanks to this video. Worse, it had become an open neutral due to poor wire nut installation. Thanks for this very helpful.
Excellent video, well explained. I have come across this when working on my own home years ago. If a neutral is shared between lines a GFCI won't work and won't allow itself to be set. That is how I discovered the issue. Keep up the great work.
What took me so long to find this channel... 1 of the best channels I've seen
thanks Raymond!!
Great reminder of things to watch out for. The floor looks sweet. That bathroom was a ton of problems!
ASLO WATCH OUT FOR GUYS STANDING ON THE TOP STEP OF A 6' LADDER, YA KoNW, THE MORE IMMEDIATE DANGER @ 13:00 . Funny as hell!
not all, but I have found many electricians and even on here as well as in person to be so righteous and threatened by others that know what there doing. He clearly knows what he's doing and also takes this topic very, very serious but at the same times makes learning fun. I appreciate seeing all the electricians that are man enough and not threatened to compliment him. That to me not only says a lot about Paul, but yourselves as well. This is a cool space and I like he vibe and glad I found you'all!
One of the most informative videos I've seen...great job explaining how this can happen...thank you...
Paul and Jordan! Congrats on the 30K subs mark! Awesome and deserved.
Thank you TJ!
Just because it’s white doesn’t mean it a neutral I notice the black tape tell me it’s a hot wire
Yes I would like to see more of your electric work
Outstanding job, you are educating, and saving lives! Thank you!
Been in the trades for 22 yrs. I’ve been watching your vids, you have some SERIOUS skills.
Yes I’d love an electrical safety video!
I worked as an electrician in switzerland. The one thing my boss would always tell me was "Take your time, not your life"
bosses in america say the opposite, they want everything done fast
Nice, I am going to steal that.
Now those are some words to live by
@@Eric12886 Yes! It is why I could not keep a electrician's helper job in the USA. All of them in a damn rush and do not care if you fry.. well some of the electricians I worked with. Some do care as they where the company owner lol. But there ya have it. In Puerto Rico they just wire the fastest and easiest way so a receptacle that is supposed to be wired hot to brass, neutral to silver screw gets wired backwards and ground screw gets that same "white" wire lol! Ouch.
I love that. Great advice for an electrician. It's my new favorite advice.
EXCELLENT explanation on the electrical.. scary how easily you can get got...
Thank you VERY much!
👍👍👍
"If you have any doubts about working with electricity, call an ELECTRICIAN." Very good advice!
I want to REITERATE to everyone on this thread that seem to be DIY oriented. IT's great you are doing your own work. Bravo. When it comes to worked with shared neutrals do your homework. If you mess up and open a neutral on an shared neutral (open neutral condition), you will energize the ENTIRE circuit to 240 and anything plugged into that circuit not rated for 240 will blow up, start a fire, melt, etc, starting with the load with the highest resistance. Beware of working on a shared neutral circuit if you do not know what you are doing.
I don't get it....All the neutrals on all the circuits are tied together at the neutral bus inside the panel....isn't that sharing a common neutral? ..please explain what I'm missing here. I'm a plumbing contractor so please bare with me.
Edit: Now I get it. It's the single neutral carrying the load of 2 (or more) circuits, on the same phase, BACK to the neutral bar we're talking about. Possible overload.
I enjoy learning stuff.
@@readmore3634 The type of "shared neutral circuit" being discussed here is more properly called a "multi-wire branch circuit".
You might be aware that a typical US home has TWO different hot conductors coming in from the street -- they are "out of phase" with each other, you could think of them as sort of like +120V and -120V, so each one by itself is 120V to neutral, but together across both of them is 240V. (I will call them legs A and B.) A "multi-wire branch circuit" has some 120V devices or outlets on "leg A", and some on "leg B", sharing a single neutral wire, which only goes back to the box at one point.
Normally the electricity would go: "leg A" -> device -> neutral, or else "leg B" -> device -> neutral, giving 120V either way. But if you "lose" or break the neutral, now electricity suddenly goes: "leg A" -> device -> device -> "leg B". The system is not meant to operate this way, and depending on the devices in the circuit, you might get not power (if all the devices on one leg or the other happen to be switched off at the time), or something nearly-normal (if the devices on both legs are roughly balanced), or you might get something approaching 240V appearing on one side, and close to 0V on the other. In that last case, you can blow up some of the devices.
@@gwillen Thx for the reply...and I understand what you're saying. It was explained to me as: pedaling a bike with 1 foot and pedaling a bike with 2 feet... opposite sides of the sprocket (2 phase). On heavy equipment (pool pump for instance) it's more efficient and less cost to run 240....I get that too. But if you lose a neutral on a 120V circuit...isn't that what a ground is for? Not sure how to tell if you lose/break a neutral. GFI I guess.
Here's why I even watched this video. My son bought a house built in the 50's... no ground throughout most of the house. Someone had moved the washer/dryer location to the garage and tapped into an adjoining bedroom's wall receptacle to power both. (wrong) I went to an electrical supply house and bought a 100ft roll of pretty heavy gauge 3 conductor wire plus ground and 2 new 30A breakers. About a 50ft run from panel to location. Black wire (breaker A) to the washer plug, blue wire (breaker B) to dryer plug and shared white (neutral) and ground. It was a bit overkill... but now I wonder if it's ok to do this. Thank you in advance.
@@readmore3634 Do yourself a favor and get someone knowledgeable to check your son's washer/dryer wiring! Most likely not ok.... but too short on details of the electrical characteristics and requirements of the washer/dryer (is it a combo unit or separate components?, plugged configuration or did this get hardwired somehow).... Most residential washers plug in to a 120V 15 or 20A receptacle. Most residential dryers and combo units plug in to a 240V 30A receptacle. And these are appliances where a ground connection is really essential). Regardless "pretty heavy gauge" doesn't show up in ampacities table 310-16 of the NEC?! Supply house probably sold you #10 AWG conductor cable with those 30A breakers.... Btw, just remember the neutral wire is a current carrying conductor to complete the power circuit. Ground wire is protective safety conductor to carry current (and trip the circuit protection) when there's a short circuit fault to exposed conductive surfaces, not a back up neutral!
@@philgilmer4313Thank you for the reply.... I talked to an electrician a few days ago, 42 year journeyman. He said as long as the 2 load wires were on opposing phases (which they are) they will pretty much cancel each other out and be no problem....otherwise the common would potentially be carrying a 240 load. He also said that in the 50's many houses had/have metal boxes tied together with a separate ground wire you can't see unless you open the wall. He said look in the back of the box for a ground screw...I'm pretty sure I saw that scew....so he said the house is probably properly grounded...just in a different way.
I knew ground was for safety...maybe I worded it wrong. But I know current is always looking for a place to go....better ground than me. Thanks again for the "civil" reply.
I was rewiring a closet years ago and got a little shock. At the time I couldn't understand how/why. I had shutoff the breaker at the panel yet I still got shocked. Now I know.
Same here.. on a light with switch off... hooked up the wrong wire and made the common live. Surprise. At least I did it to myself.
Now I see why people say to just shutdown the entire power and not just a circuit.
A few years ago a local 98 apprentice in Philly got killed while working on a luminare by the grounded conductor ( proper new name for nuetral ). Must have opened up a splice. The electrician he was working for was in the next room.
Where is your PPE safety equipment. If OSHA catches you without it you will say OS . ( O SHIT ).
Shared neutral.
Hey guys these are great for a handyman like myself. Electrical videos are really useful for me. I've made my living doing this kind of work for years now and I've found you can always learn something new.
Probably the first thing anyone with a family member, esp if the family is dependent upon the skilled trades person for the familys' income is to have a will and adequate life insurance. As the host of the video stated, surprising things happen which can permanently injure, disable, or kill in the space of a heartbeat. Other than that, I am so glad he is doing these videos, I am learning so much! Thanks for making them.
Another well done job 👍. Yes please, I would like to see the "until the shock" video, it would educate most of us on electrical safety.
Great explanation on the feedback on the neutral. There was some really scary stuff happening in that 100A sub-panel (like 14 AWG Romex on 20A breakers, and it was way overloaded - a fire waiting to happen there).
Yep. Should have been #12 on 20 amp beakers.
How can you tell it's 14 gauge. My entire house is wired with white 12 awg romex
Oh and I forgot to add .....YES !!!! I would love to see You guys make more electrical videos . You guys explain things in a way that makes it very comprehensive especially with the few Electric videos you have done . I love learning new things in an easy to grasp way of doing things .
This was an extremely useful video, goes to show how important it is to test everything, every possibility. Thank you.
This is absolutely a fantastic video
Yes let’s do more deep dives on electrical, because you explain it very well
Norm from this old house has a rival
As a home inspector, I can tell you that 3 way switches wired by non-electricians are almost guaranteed to be wired wrong. Kudos for fixing the issue, I hope the home owners realize that they have hired the world's smartest contractor.
My electrician couldn't figure out a 3 way switch in my family room (I had Leviton Decora Smart dimmers at the time). I already was looking into a decent smart switch system that worked better and went with the Lutron Caseta system, made the 'remote' dimmer one of their remotes paired with the dimmer in that room and now it works perfectly and is so easy to use, low cost, just had to wire nut the neutral, hot, traveler (separately of course!).
I can tell you that a whole house wired by an electrician is wrong. They do shortcuts here and there because 1. they know what they are doing 2. they don't want spend time and money to properly do their work per code. A second electrician coming to the house to add any device will add another layer of shortcut... and so forth. In the case of the video, there's 4 wires connected to the switch box. Right there, there's something wrong.
Home inspector guy chimes in. Hahahahaha
@@sebparent4584 you aren’t a licensed electrician, and all the rubbish you just spewed out is just that RUBBISH. What’s your occupation??
@@Esnara2085 exactly like they know anything about the trades😂😂😂
Great workmanship. Great tutorial, very well explained. Thank you. 👍🏽
Thank you for demonstrating the need for extensive EXPERIENCE in troubleshooting electrical problems. What seems simple common sense and intuitive to an experienced professional is an enigma to those of us who merely “know the basics.”
AWESOME video! I was under the impression that once power was cut to a leg, I couldn't get shocked. THANKS for sharing this video with us!
You got it 👍
I'd love to see more about the land based electrical codes. I've been studying marine electronics and it's fascinating how different they can be.
And vice versa.
Unbelievable!!! What a great lesson!!!
Thank you for sharing this important information!!!
We electricians in UK call this situation; a “borrowed neutral” often occurs when a downstairs light is wired in later years after construction. It makes wiring simpler to “ borrow a neutral” from the upstairs lighting circuit. Everything works fine until somebody starts poking around in switch boxes, and finds the error the “ hard way” .................shocking!
And that neutral may end up carrying 30amps instead of 15, without tripping any breakers. That house can get more light than intended.
People often forget that the low (domestic) supply in the UK and the US is configured differently.
Here in the UK, the high voltage grid (11Kv) is delta with the centre phase bonded to earth. The final transformer is delta star, with the star point bonded to earth, so this forms the neutral. The supply is 415 volts, which gives 240 volts between each phase and the star point (neutral)
In the US, the final transformer is single phase or delta secondary with a centre tap on each phase bonded to earth. This allows 120 or 240 volt supplies to be obtained from each phase as required, again with 415 volts between phases.
@@sergeyn.syritsyn6748 That neutral should NOT be carrying 30amps if done correctly. The US has used "borrowed neutrals" as well, not sure if it's been coded out though that would be something you very often saw with knob and tube wiring less of an issue for NM wire runs since every cable has a neutral anyways, but the idea is you take opposite phases and as a result you could potentially have 0 amps if both wires are running. Looking at his drawn diagram of #19 & #20 junction boxes I would say this is most likely the case of what happened as odd values will be one phase, and even values will be another phase. But the fact this was done with NM wire seems silly though.
Problems are sometimes caused here in the USA when they share a neutral on the same phase. The current through the neutral is then the sum of the currents in the two hot legs which causes an overcurrent in the neutral that isn't detected by the breakers since the breakers are reading current in the hot legs. When the hot legs are from the different phases the difference of the current flowing through the hot legs is what flows through the neutral. It's why I think it's safer just to use a separate neutral for each circuit.
@@Anon54387 That is so true. Here in the UK, every circuit is required to have a separate neutral rated for the breaker.
Unlike the US, our 240 volt domestic supply is the grounded star point of the 415 volt final transformer, so on a 3 phase supply the neutral is the same size of the phase conductors. Electricians who are not electrical engineers often find it confusing that the current in the neutral cannot exceed the maximum current in any one phase due to current cancellation.
Needless to say, it is the reason that we cannot centre tap a phase to produce 120 volts, since one side or the tap would be shorted to the star point.
Excellent lesson on the importance of hiring a professional. Unfortunately, it's likely an irresponsible professional caused this problem to begin with. I'm thankful for videos like this that share info with homeowners that like to understand how things are supposed to work and the risks involved with attempting repairs beyond your scope.
Excellent video, yes. ALWAYS run SEPARATE neutrals back to the panel via separate and discrete cable runs and feeds. Always.
Sometimes is not an irresponsible electrician. Sometimes it’s the fact that decades ago, the code allowed things that it doesn’t allow anymore.
For years I did my own work. I do not trust the so called professional electricians; I have seen too many screw ups. Now I am too old to clime around and under things I get a good friend who runs an electrical business. But after he lives I double check everything. I do believe in following the code. Everything must also be engineering sound; I do have a degree.
@@donaldeisenbarth5255 i have hired several electricians, watched them work, observed mistakes and had to ask them if things were correct before they closed up the work. They made the corrections and then I paid them. I had to ask myself why I was hiring them after those experiences. They seem to be rushing through and not paying full attention - not wise for an electrician.
@@totallyfrozen Whether code allowed it or not, its still irresponsible or ignorance that creates an issue like that.
I really appreciate your honesty and delivery of the how and why the problem existed. Great job in my opinion and I appreciate being able to watch something without all of the profanity!!
Yes I would love to see more electrical videos I have a great love for working with electrical wiring and such, I don't always get things right but for the most part I do very well for myself with the knowledge I have, but it's always interesting to how other people do things and learn new methods of doing stuff. Thanks guys for all your great videos you have made so far.
More electrical please, my wife will thank u when I don’t blow myself up sometime in the future. Great job with today’s video brother. Appreciate all that u do!
Then hire an electrician.
@@danielhady3021 dont be a dick!!!
you might get sick and tired of my praise ... this is looking great guys!
I’m adding 2 each 110s and a 220, all 20 amp, tomorrow. Your explanation of the neutral was great. I got buzzed, as a young man, working with my Dad’s tape wrapped no boxes 1940s wiring
This was an awesome video. It taught me to really respect electricity and to make no assumptions. Also really great to see a slow explanation and then how to trouble shoot and how to remedy including pulling the wire through. Very eye-opening and useful, thanks!
I'd be very interested to see your "shock" video. Sounds like a video that could potentially save lives in the future.
You said that you had worked with master electricians. I'd love to hear more of your history of working with trades, how you got started etc. I like how you explain things, so electrical safety would be good to hear.
I Completely Second this! Have shared your channel with many friends & coworkers - one of the best channels on the web!!! And love the relationship and how you treat each other = MAD RESPECT! Keep it coming guys! The cream always rises to the top= Dont forget to enjoy the Journey!
A very helpful article for the DIY, thanks.
Just found your channel Wow as a DTY guy I can not believe all the stupid mistakes that I have made when I thought I knew how to do it. PRAY that they dont bite me in the ass. There for I vote for more electrical videos please.
Jurassic Park. Dr. Malcolm: "No. I'm, I'm simply saying that life, uh... finds a way. "
dammit I thought I had it first hahaha
Yes, do the electrical videos.
I watch your videos to learn so don't limit showing us what you've learned at Percussion University (the school of hard knocks).
In high school we had an electrical "laboratory ". Bare studs with boxes and such installed. We'd pull the wire, put in breakers, wire in three way switches and lights. The teacher would come along and check your work. Then you'd get to see if it worked after he wired it to an extension cord. It was fun!