How to Recover from a Big Trading Loss

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  • Опубліковано 9 лют 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 445

  • @VRDNation
    @VRDNation  2 роки тому +6

    Please join our new channel for more trading related knowledge. The link to the new channel is :
    ua-cam.com/channels/rAEUt-BYT-WbxF_pdcmzkA.html

    • @akilankramarani8041
      @akilankramarani8041 2 роки тому

      Hi, I recently started watching all your videos, really nice content and well explained. I'm an NRI can i trade in Indian stocks using zerodtha or any other broker sites? any plans for such videos? thanks

  • @velankmc
    @velankmc 3 роки тому +45

    I like last point "DO NOT GIVE UP".... Very positive speech..

    • @harikrishnamekala8612
      @harikrishnamekala8612 3 роки тому +1

      👏👏👏👏👏💝

    • @mahi_mad
      @mahi_mad 3 роки тому +2

      Yes and “ you’ve earned a badge to become a good trader”

  • @THEGAMER-cc2eq
    @THEGAMER-cc2eq 3 роки тому +89

    This guy is one of the honest person on internet 👏👏

    • @hope-rh3jt
      @hope-rh3jt 3 роки тому +3

      Yes he is the most genuine person, who tries to do best for retail people.

    • @msw1174
      @msw1174 3 роки тому +2

      Absolutely

    • @rameshchinnasamy9135
      @rameshchinnasamy9135 2 роки тому +1

      Yes..... Really great content..... Very genuine....

  • @Rafiqul_il
    @Rafiqul_il 3 роки тому +34

    Loss isn’t losing it’s learning in a way, to make you disciplined for the days to come. Thank you 🙏

  • @akhilb5692
    @akhilb5692 3 роки тому +114

    Kudos to everyone who watched the whole video with dedication! Because most people ignore this type of content ;)

  • @kungFu.panda9211
    @kungFu.panda9211 2 роки тому +2

    This is one of the most under-rated channel on UA-cam.

  • @mo0ndawg
    @mo0ndawg 3 роки тому +26

    Please do watch the video fully. Everything he says is extremely well said. This comment is just a refresher in case one comes back to this video.
    This video is absolute gold!
    1. Stay out of the market.
    2. Take full unconditional responsibility
    3. Avoid getting into traps
    4. Do a post-mortem
    5. Fix the problem
    6. Forget recovering the losses.
    7. Don't give up
    If you've paid the price, don't lose the lesson now.
    Great content as always. Thank you sir! 🙏

  • @KCPRAJ
    @KCPRAJ 3 роки тому +14

    One mantra which I feel will overcome human emotions is "Be rude with SL and generous with profits.Treat SL as a well your wisher who saves you from disaster and helps you to continue your journey"..That's it

  • @rajatswain7662
    @rajatswain7662 3 роки тому +37

    I started trading in 2020 March. Lost 20L in Future retail, recovered a little and then ventured into Options. In options I was profitable for 3 days and then over next 2 months I lost another 17 Lakh. At one point I was in total loss of 35Lakhs. I was able to recover all my loss gradually. So if you have lost big in trading don't take drastic steps like ending your life. Bring in discipline to your life, to your trading style. Follow your own rules and never give up. You will start winning eventually.

    • @LIGHTMEDIA
      @LIGHTMEDIA 3 роки тому

      Is it true,,.?how

    • @gamer-sg9pg
      @gamer-sg9pg 2 роки тому +6

      I lost 1500 rs I am depressed

    • @dhruvilshah6769
      @dhruvilshah6769 2 роки тому +2

      ​@@gamer-sg9pg 🤣🤣🤣

    • @greatfellow
      @greatfellow 2 роки тому +1

      I too lost 22 lakhs till now.. since 2020 March by selling and in buying options.. can you share your wisdom how you bounced back, please?

    • @mrcrazymrfun4075
      @mrcrazymrfun4075 Рік тому

      GREAT WORK SIR

  • @kundan-sinha
    @kundan-sinha 3 роки тому +65

    Great content and advise.
    "Take full responsibility" - The best advice.

  • @mr.ningubiradar1946
    @mr.ningubiradar1946 3 роки тому +36

    "Forget to recover the loss but focus on profits as if u r trading first time " Really it is true towards profitable 👍

    • @tamalbhowmick4079
      @tamalbhowmick4079 3 роки тому +1

      Very positive thinking, honestly! The intention of loss recovery makes way for revenge trades. And that’s where we loss more.

    • @maishamolokomme2101
      @maishamolokomme2101 2 роки тому

      @@tamalbhowmick4079 powerful.

    • @mohanpalli
      @mohanpalli 2 роки тому

      if not recovery first loss so how i can profitable in market

  • @dineshbhardwaj6272
    @dineshbhardwaj6272 3 роки тому +6

    While watching this video I could relate to every single world , having incurred a big loss I was exactly going through the emotional shock but feel much better now and surely follow all the steps to come out of the big loss. Thanks for this wonder full content .

  • @piyushpundir2260
    @piyushpundir2260 3 роки тому +8

    I don't usually like and comment on UA-cam videos, but sir, you've made me do both on this one.
    Really appreciate the quality you provided in this video.
    Thankyou

  • @kaaaah2003
    @kaaaah2003 3 роки тому +8

    Based on my 5 years of experience, I would suggest, no one starts trading until fully trained.Always start slowly and mastered in stop loss and getting out with small loss b4 it becomes monster.

  • @louiseleazar
    @louiseleazar 3 роки тому +1

    Here I am coming from a loss of 3 lakhs... You have read my mind and you are talking to me. Thank you for your encouraging words.

  • @Abhinandanabhi1212
    @Abhinandanabhi1212 3 роки тому +24

    U taught like a father..And I listened like a son!! U very well know the emotional things that go on in one's mind..Losses and profits come and go, but u r a good human being for sure.. I too from Hyderabad, felt like meeting u at once..

  • @JACM917
    @JACM917 3 роки тому +1

    Happened with me. Never give up if you want to become a successful trader!
    Winning or Losing , there's always Learning!

  • @goforazhar
    @goforazhar 3 роки тому +6

    7 Days ago I faced the biggest Loss of my Life . 5 lacs and some thousands .. felt each and everything you explained here .
    God I am going through this hell . I hope ill recover it in future .

    • @vishnubagwalaa
      @vishnubagwalaa 3 роки тому

      Total capital bro ?

    • @jamestseng1914
      @jamestseng1914 3 роки тому +1

      You will be able to recover those loses only if u have learnt from your mistakes

    • @goforazhar
      @goforazhar 3 роки тому

      @@jamestseng1914 totally Agree .

    • @goforazhar
      @goforazhar 3 роки тому

      @@vishnubagwalaa 8.3 Lacs 😏

    • @akshayshetty5665
      @akshayshetty5665 2 роки тому

      Today 70k loss 📉

  • @leothegroup
    @leothegroup 3 роки тому +4

    Sure every trader had this experience, Good matured speak.

  • @allindiabackwordclassseemp4570
    @allindiabackwordclassseemp4570 3 роки тому +3

    When I started,I incurred very heavy losses for two months .But later l recovered all lost money within 5 months. Followed almost same method which is discussed in Video. 👌👌

  • @kalanatha2290
    @kalanatha2290 3 роки тому +9

    What a brilliant concept video. I am passing through this stage. Thank you.

  • @72_shivamagrawal49
    @72_shivamagrawal49 3 роки тому +1

    Most honest and humble person I came across on youtube.

  • @SatishKumar-er2lq
    @SatishKumar-er2lq 3 роки тому +5

    To be success in trade you should not touch F&O for two to three yrs, however none of the mentors will say this word, I am not sure why they are not. Work 2 to 3 yrs in market as a full time trader or 4 to 5 yrs as a part time trader, every day market will teach you a new lesson, learn how to reduce your mistakes then one day market will show you some profit, till that time learn.
    "It is not about how hard you hit, its about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done". Rocky from Millionaire Traders.

  • @jayantiviswanath9785
    @jayantiviswanath9785 2 роки тому

    Watched this video again today, incurred a big loss on Feb 24th, 2022 expiry day ( Russia invaded Ukraine). Got butchered literally with a gap down of ~ 500 points !This video is very insightful and encouraging. Thank you.

  • @velusamyramakrishnan2313
    @velusamyramakrishnan2313 3 роки тому +1

    Simple and impact creating expression. I love the utterance 'learn from mistakes and learn to make money instead of recovering the losses. Try to sustain in market instead of quitting. The losses are the money and time you spent for learning'. Excellent straight forwardness instead of shortcuts. My experience resembles yours. Bravo

  • @nithishkumarganesan9727
    @nithishkumarganesan9727 3 роки тому +11

    The very very important word is " FORGOT THE LOSSES & START NEW TRADING JOURNEY" and "DON'T GIVE UP" those words reflect in our mind & emotionally!!!

  • @himanshumishra5088
    @himanshumishra5088 3 роки тому +2

    POST MORTEM of Trade!! Essential to review, reflect, revise and improve... 🙏😇
    THANK YOU SIR!

  • @sureshdk982
    @sureshdk982 3 роки тому +1

    Do not give up. The best thing from your 25 minute tips.

  • @Gazab251
    @Gazab251 2 роки тому

    You were just talking about me.Since am at the later stage of my life didn't loose my stature nor I needed to give my accountability to anyone but myself. This all happened from march this year when I entered for the first time. Believed a PMS service (itmr ) in the Telegram channel now.He lost 7lks of mine in 2days.The rest 3 I did myself. Like you said I take the responsibility it was my fault. Now as you said am learning and planning a fresh beginning with composed mindset with out planning to recover. Like you said will earn it bit by bit. I feel am ready slowly for a come back. Thanks a lot. Appreciate greatly to boost me up as I felt you made this vedio just for me. God Bless you and your family. 🙏

  • @mebanntalang9870
    @mebanntalang9870 3 роки тому +1

    "DONT GIVE UP" The best advice ever on youtube .. your channel really inspire me sir....Thanks alot ..👍👍👍

  • @sravan495
    @sravan495 3 роки тому +2

    PhD in taking losses ......very useful video for beginners who already took reasonable losses

  • @srikanthram1539
    @srikanthram1539 3 роки тому +4

    Everyone should have crossed this stage in their trading experience

  • @saibaba270
    @saibaba270 3 роки тому +3

    I incurred a big loss in Kotak options after that I quit trading for almost two months and started monitoring the charts in live market without taking a single entry... after two months slowly moved to swing trading with chart patterns.. now from last week onwards started doing intraday in equity

  • @satizk4630
    @satizk4630 3 роки тому

    I had lost 30% of my captial in one single trade in BANKNIFTY... i left derivative section.. but I find myself good in equity secton.. and I'm profitable now.. that big loss showed me who I'm... i didn't afraid that big loss... i over come that loss and find edge in equity... thank you for that big loss and for you sir.. accept your losses.. this is the nature of the game.

  • @sohelchowdhury2395
    @sohelchowdhury2395 3 роки тому +1

    Sir. Your suggestion change my attitude. Thanks a lot.

  • @sutapa1983
    @sutapa1983 3 роки тому +8

    Sir your every video is a gem but today's video is the brightest.I was recollecting my own journey..every point is very much relatable.I made a big loss after trading for 3 months and it takes next 5 months to return to previous stage.But the journey was full of knowledge and patience.

    • @HSJGAMING
      @HSJGAMING 2 роки тому

      what was the lost amount and your starting capital?

  • @saurabhpatil5585
    @saurabhpatil5585 3 роки тому

    I'm sitting here watching this video, just right now I took my biggest loss in my trading journey, I was on a winning streak from the past 4 days, today just a small loss occured in the morning, I broke all my rules went to convert that small loss in atleast a small profit, overtraded, went all in took huge position in bnf option buying, took 13 trades, rollercoster of emotions and now ended up blowing 25% of my total account. All profits gone, and now with a 25% overall capital erosion. Should have watched this video a little sooner, Your video is giving me total clarity. Thank you

  • @stallions133
    @stallions133 2 роки тому

    Thanks brother..I have good strategy and was making very good profits and I got overconfident and lost money…I realized my problem is my emotional management…I always try to prove myself that my entry was right and keep changing stop loss hoping market will reverse..I can’t accept even small loss…I am learning risk management and strict rules further…I am happy to blow up my account on 100 trades but not on 1 trade anymore…I will be a very successful trader one day and will never give up😊

  • @saurbhme
    @saurbhme 3 роки тому +5

    Same story with me, I just started trading in July 2021, in July watched and tried learning, in August started making small trades in equity and earned 4k so got some confidence but in Sep lost 16k and it was a shock......😖 , i tried recovering from this shock and again started doing small trades in Oct and taking small profits like 500 and 1k..... just want to protect my money so that i can survive in trading and learn more...

  • @Giridhar.M
    @Giridhar.M 3 роки тому +1

    With lot of respect i love you 💕 so much sir !

  • @anthonibritto5409
    @anthonibritto5409 3 роки тому +1

    Thanks for your encouraging words for novice trader like me losing amount of rs.7 lac, but learnt a lesson that, loss is a loss, now I threw the "recovery of loss" out of my mind, and will take a short break & then I'll trade with one strategy with Trading decipline. Thanks for your encouraging words sir 🙏

  • @sangampatra9725
    @sangampatra9725 3 роки тому +2

    This video is really matured enough. Appreciate for your effort to educate retail traders 🙏

  • @psnkpns8213
    @psnkpns8213 3 роки тому +3

    I started my trading journey a couple of years ago . I'm doing pretty fine. . but I'll proudly say that it is that one big loss I took in a stock that taught me what matters the most and focus on that . Today my stopp loss levels are 10x more than the big loss I took earlier ... But still it was that loss that taught me much
    And that amount is just 1500rs.

    • @sae6969
      @sae6969 3 роки тому

      can u please what's your trading setup or strategy

    • @psnkpns8213
      @psnkpns8213 3 роки тому

      I trade on pure price action . Just like how rao sir does . I'm not an option trader . I do swing trading. That's all🙂

  • @cutehomesrealtors8477
    @cutehomesrealtors8477 3 роки тому +1

    One of the best video in YT for traders...

  • @navjotsingh9798
    @navjotsingh9798 3 роки тому +1

    Every video just keeps on getting better and better

  • @jakeo1209
    @jakeo1209 2 роки тому

    Ok, I watched 3 videos. I am now sending them to all my friends. Good job, my friend. Good job.

  • @paulpandian24
    @paulpandian24 3 роки тому +2

    Wonderful and well detailed message on taking a Big Loss in Trading. Thank You, for sharing your Experience.

  • @ashishingle9298
    @ashishingle9298 3 роки тому

    Whatever you are saying in this video it very helpful to live a stress-free life specially the sentence " be honest with yourself" & " take full responsibility of whatever your are doing don't blem others" 🤞

  • @arvibas4766
    @arvibas4766 3 роки тому

    V true what all you said. Our losses are our fees for getting experience and to be disciplined in d future. Thanks for sharing your good thoughts.

  • @Ram2952
    @Ram2952 3 роки тому +1

    Nice this is the real words work in Market...mind-set is more important than stratagy...risk management is the life jacket this dive

  • @saisivaprasadchundi6804
    @saisivaprasadchundi6804 3 роки тому

    I have gone through a similar phase. Getting over shock of yesterday's losses. Will take a break and start afresh. The blunder I committed is not putting STOP LOSS in my trades 🙂

  • @deepakpatra4691
    @deepakpatra4691 3 роки тому +1

    very nicely explained . Compared to other Indian traders in youtube I like your way approach more practical and helpful . thanks

  • @shaikimran9420
    @shaikimran9420 3 роки тому +2

    Great video.. You explain it thru a different angle, and it makes me feel so much better. Big losses are like mandatory phase that qualifies you as a trader. Nicely put. make sense. Thank you for the video.

  • @wasingtonp1217
    @wasingtonp1217 3 роки тому

    PH.D IN TAKING LOSSES......... AMAZING 👍👍👍👍👍

  • @RiteshKumar-yw1gi
    @RiteshKumar-yw1gi 3 роки тому

    First comment.
    Sir you are one of the a few educator who teaches us core of stock market. Thank you very much sir 🙏🙏

  • @marthaiyengar8322
    @marthaiyengar8322 2 роки тому

    This video is like kneeling on a shoulder when the market just goes down for no reason causing losses. Felt better every time I feel let down by the market.

  • @Corella-abc
    @Corella-abc 3 роки тому +1

    Patience & Responsibilities are more important when we fell down…applicable for the Phd of the losses

  • @nadeemamanhit
    @nadeemamanhit 2 роки тому

    You are a very honest mentor!
    Plz keep guiding us to the right path!
    God Bless You!

  • @archergrc5362
    @archergrc5362 3 роки тому

    One of the best videos on Losses and Risk Management

  • @satheesh5361
    @satheesh5361 3 роки тому +3

    Dear friend,
    it's a Great video.the persons who entered stock market to earn money didn't know the content what u r expressing... As being a trader for last one and half year.. I faced all these things.. Now I understood and taking unconditional responsibility for all my actions in trading that had happened in past..hope to Foresee a better future..

  • @prasadchavan5545
    @prasadchavan5545 3 роки тому

    Bro you just helped me, been in loss but I am trying hard but now I learn to forget recovery!

  • @SuccessOverStress
    @SuccessOverStress Рік тому

    Great...watching this video allowed me to BREATHE AGAIN. I know whose fault my loss was!!! Mine. I knew it.... It's important to say it!

  • @THB-Trades
    @THB-Trades 3 роки тому

    very few have given advice on this platform which is very crisp, true and unapologetic thank you sir.

  • @mayurjadhav701
    @mayurjadhav701 3 роки тому

    23:20 golden statement 🙏🏻👍

  • @prasadmohite4
    @prasadmohite4 3 роки тому +1

    Sir, One of the best video. Thank you so much. Every point is worth following.

  • @jayasaisekharboyina3461
    @jayasaisekharboyina3461 2 роки тому

    Superb Boss.. hats off.."what are we going to recover?"..lost is lost.. excellent point

  • @aditiyathiru2841
    @aditiyathiru2841 2 роки тому

    Thank you Mr.Rao really its an eye opener ... I learned from my earlier mistakes ... I did post martom of my trade , I accept my mistakes and in fact I made it clear to me what not to do !! I feel what ever I made resolution you are teaching me from this video .
    I feel proud I am in the right track .
    definitely I will meet you as a student .
    thanks again .

  • @nirupamahongekar3018
    @nirupamahongekar3018 2 роки тому

    Very true. Once we change our psychology about losses.. Everything changes..

  • @Shrvp
    @Shrvp Рік тому

    I am very new to the derivatives market. Thanks for Excellent Video. Most educative and eye opener. I like your simple, down-to-earth style. No melodrama or painting a grand picture. I am learning a lot from your videos.

  • @ssdonlinesinger
    @ssdonlinesinger Рік тому

    I usually consider trading loss as donation to the stock market.. keep focus on next trade with positive mindset...

  • @jamestseng1914
    @jamestseng1914 3 роки тому

    So true your teachings about losses mandatory in beginning. I did terrible mistake and lost my 50% of my capital in first year of trading. Slowly I learnt from mistakes and recovered the losses and now in profit with proper strategy as of now. Of course strategy will change according to market move.

  • @2591969
    @2591969 3 роки тому +1

    Fantastic message for the beginner
    Especially who made loss , well done
    Brother 👏👏👏👏

  • @csaadirajanedi6026
    @csaadirajanedi6026 3 роки тому +1

    I personally feel I'm very fortunate to be a subscriber of this beautiful channel ,as usual excellent content, thank you sir

  • @954snoop
    @954snoop 3 роки тому +5

    Hello Sir,
    This means a lot to me. I have learnt it the hard way. Thank you so much for all your learnings. Wish you good health & prosperity in the future ahead :)

  • @tamalbhowmick4079
    @tamalbhowmick4079 3 роки тому

    I made all the wrong decisions which he mentioned.
    I took all the precautions which he mentioned.
    I am on a losing spree for the last couple of weeks.
    And I was about to quit stock market entirely.
    Not to mention, I always took responsibility of my losses.
    Now I need to take out whatever chillar is left in my account. And take a banvaas for a few days at least. Contemplate. And may be a come back later.
    Thanks for the guidance!

  • @ramanankuppannan2509
    @ramanankuppannan2509 2 роки тому

    A timeless video. Worthy advice! God bless you!

  • @ranjithrkp8114
    @ranjithrkp8114 3 роки тому +1

    Thanks for your honest advices

  • @KamAndrus
    @KamAndrus 2 роки тому

    The greatest video 'Every Trader' must watch! Thank you, sir, 💐

  • @rajaramreddy007
    @rajaramreddy007 3 роки тому

    This is such a great video, I spent about 4 months in the market so far, sitting in some huge losses on borrowed money. Planning to take a break and set some ground rules for myself.

  • @SS-in9zo
    @SS-in9zo 2 роки тому

    Golden words for beginners from honest personality

  • @Sharvin87
    @Sharvin87 3 роки тому +1

    Very important topic, explained well...

  • @BLACK.SHADOW592
    @BLACK.SHADOW592 3 роки тому +1

    👍 straight forward talk no body talk about this

  • @poojamakhija7971
    @poojamakhija7971 2 роки тому

    Kudos! Absolutely honest, brilliant and an eye opener video! The big loss has given the experience of what not to do while trading and that experience is priceless.This experience can give you the success.

  • @NabeelGm
    @NabeelGm 3 роки тому +12

    The very worst thing is when you close your position and book your losses then suddenly the market makes a U turn and Hits highs 😀

    • @shameemshajahan489
      @shameemshajahan489 3 роки тому

      Plan your risk amount in a trade before entering

    • @2011hemanth
      @2011hemanth 3 роки тому

      Exactly right

    • @KK20048
      @KK20048 3 роки тому

      Very true

    • @navneetsingh192
      @navneetsingh192 2 роки тому

      I booked a loss of 13 lacs closing my short position in USDINR and from next day rupee strengthened and only in three days my position turned profitable but I had already closed my trade booking huge loss. I am not able to come to terms with this cruel joke of destiny

  • @sdatta3441
    @sdatta3441 3 роки тому

    thank you. you don't know what you just did. thank you once again

  • @ivanmartin1354
    @ivanmartin1354 Рік тому

    Thanks venket. Very very informative. I too will follow what you advised.

  • @RealSlopeDude
    @RealSlopeDude Рік тому

    I had to look up lakh rupee. Great advice. All points. Thanks.

  • @1gopalakrishnarao
    @1gopalakrishnarao 3 роки тому +3

    Very informative, inspiring, revealing, thought provoking, realistic, impressive, experienced thoughts shared. Thank you very much for creating confidence for the people who have lost money/amount in their adventures of making fast money. Hope it is an eye opener and realization for the mistakes done without planning/strategy/home work/calculated risk.. Great video indeed.

  • @nithishkumarganesan9727
    @nithishkumarganesan9727 3 роки тому

    After watching this video I have learn one thing... First of all remove the mindset making money & set the mind learn how the stocks market & options working.....

  • @realguitarshredder
    @realguitarshredder 2 роки тому

    Absolutely right. One needs to train their emotions first before trading

  • @parthasarathykannan7276
    @parthasarathykannan7276 3 роки тому

    One of the best lectures that I have come across. Hats off. Please keep up the good work.

  • @shalinialjapur505
    @shalinialjapur505 2 роки тому

    So true! I am in loss right now. I went long for one stock and it is in loss. I don't understand should I still hold or sell it.

  • @tabtony
    @tabtony 3 роки тому

    What do you suggest to do during the break we take after loss. Mostly my work is online and eventually i turn up watching market and take the trade again.

  • @annefrancia3472
    @annefrancia3472 9 місяців тому

    Thank you for sharing all your knowledge. It's very much appreciated

  • @felixmenezes2966
    @felixmenezes2966 3 роки тому

    Nice thought.....do not try to recover loss... 👍🏼

  • @ashishdsilva1247
    @ashishdsilva1247 3 роки тому +1

    You are very genuine person Mr VRD :) With great power comes great responsibility :) !!!!!!

  • @AV_Traveller
    @AV_Traveller 3 роки тому +2

    This advice will understand only when they have traveled in path of big loss journey

  • @MS-hl7yz
    @MS-hl7yz 3 роки тому

    Great Video sir.. made 50k loss yesterday in one trade and happened to see your video today .. inspiring sir, looks like you just made it for me 🙏🙏🙏

  • @umeshshelake5114
    @umeshshelake5114 3 роки тому

    You are awesome Sir..Trillions of Thanks for this Video.....Personally I did not incur heavy loss ...just 27k in last 6 months out of it 18k was Brokerage .....I never regret about it.....But your videos are TRULY MAGICAL about Stock Market .....keep it up and enlighten us.

  • @vilashiray
    @vilashiray 2 роки тому

    Appriciate your Honesty & Clarity .Great video & Good Learning. Please continue your Beautiful way of teaching us through your practical experiences . . .....