I was Discipled in a Progressive Church but Jesus Saved Me
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- Опубліковано 2 кві 2022
- Recently, I sat down with Pastor Eric Nelson of South Mountain Community Church in Salt Lake City, Utah to talk about my experience with progressive Christianity.
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100% identified with being raised in a Christian home. Read Bible stories, taught to memorize verses, and everything else that makes someone look like a Christian. Even prayed the sinner’s prayer. But only recently have I made the faith my own.
Videos like this and other Bible based authors have brought me back to the true and living God.
God bless. Thank you for your testimony.
Great story Tizzy. For most of us its gotta get lived out and tested to become personal. I had a similar upbringing as you, so know that we are on a journey. If we are the Lord's, He will draw us back and keep his children. We do our part to remain in the strength he provides
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. :) The gift of faith is given by means - if we do not hear, how can we believe? And how can we hear, unless the Word is proclaimed to our ears? It sounds like your parents did their part in God's plan, planting seeds of the Word that could grow in God's time. One plants, another waters, but God alone causes the growth! :)
Amazing testimony. Thanks for sharing Alisha. So many being deceived with this movement. You are doing a vital work. 💖👏🙌
Many are deceived about God, you included.
Praise God that he can open hearts to see the truth!
If God can do that, why doesn't he do that for everybody?
Alisa, you are such a truthful clear communicator of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ! May He bless you richly in your ministry 🙌✝️
“We have to stiffen our spine” I love that! Too many churches and preachers proclaim a spineless gospel. The focus is on practical stuff, not much in-depth teaching from the Bible.
Being challenged to find answers is good! As John bunyan stated in his book "Holy war", Honest-inqury vs Evil-Questioning.
Have you tried challenging the arguments he makes in that book, or are you performing confirmation bias?
@@nicholaswheeler507 Is that an honest inquiry or an evil questioning??
@Wes Creedle Asking questions you don't know the answer to is evil? Asking questions is evil?
@@nicholaswheeler507 asking questions because you want to learn and know the truth is honest. Asking questions because you've already decided you hate the truth and the truth teller and want to destroy him, is evil. Evil questioners have carefully premeditated and calculated dare questions discredit the truth-teller and make them appear to be evil. An example the religious leaders who crafted questions to try and trap and condemned Jesus and his followers because they were afraid of losing their position of power. Those were not honest questions, they did not want to learn the answer to the question, they did not want to learn anything at all, but instead were possessed and guided by a certain spirit, Spirit of their father the devil.
That same Antichrist spirit exist today and is prevalent in most universities professors the media Etc.
@@7x779 Could not have said it better myself. 👏
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 3:17(KJV)
The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. John 3:18
This is SO good!! This gave me words for so many of the things I’ve been seeing/witnessing but couldn’t put my finger on! Thank you! I needed this so much!!
Love to heart it Shawnda! Tons of us are out here to help as well. The attack against the bride of Christ is coming heavy and fierce from all fronts so it's good to stand guard and defend the faith, and seek out resources that help you do it: to know what you believe and why, at least on an elementary level.
A friend of hers, Natasha Crain is very eloquent as well. She's more a family and children apologist momma-bear. Another recommended lady is Holly Pivec. She'll help most on the front of hyper-charismania and why we must guard our ears on the worship music front. It's a gateway to the churches which produce the material and their theology is dangerous, esp. the large one in Redding, CA. She co authored trio essential books in the movement that is pivotal too be aware of to not be sucked into what it teaches. Most of the discernment ladies have excellent audio podcasts as well and I follow several of theirs and from the men as well.
Alisha's book 'Another Gospel' is excellent and very much needed also.
They are all scammers Shawnda. They want you to buy their books, pay your tithes and offerings, and watch and subscribe to their social media, for their own gain. Yahweh never existed any more than Baal, Asherah, Chemosh, Marduk, Dagon, Moloch, Milcom or any of the other gods mentioned in the Bible. It was mythological nonsense from the beginning.
A great conversation, very thoughtful, very timely, thanks Alisa and Eric 😊💗🙏
Agreed. Thanks for sharing.
Traditional ways will never get you lost.
✝️
At 27:00 “keeping boundaries around the gospel” SUPER IMPORTANT!
I loved that point about how lying about who God is and what he said is the most harmful thing anyone can do. Puts a bigger emphasis on the need to verify and stick with truth. Truth is not an opinion or an option; it is the whole foundation of what is good and the will of God for us
I think that’s a good point. And with the truth in mind we should be aware that textually speaking much of the New Testament as influenced by Paul (a man who self admittedly never met Christ in the flesh) contradicts much of what we know about what Christ said about himself. In order to square that circle you have to have faith that Christ kept the actual truth of God (that he was literally the son of God and would be crucified and resurrected) hidden from his own apostles and only revealed to Paul through visions years after the death of Christ. That’s fine if you believe that, but to pretend that there isn’t a huge conflict between the original disciples and Pauline theology is just a lie, either through outright denial or ignorance.
@@patrickcate1070 Paul was approved of by the apostles and elders at Jerusalem--Acts chapter 15. Also see Acts chapter 13.
@@patbiggam8138 yeah the sect influenced by Paul wrote that, so it’s a little dubious.
@@patrickcate1070 there is NO disconnect between what the apostles taught and what Paul taught. The Bible does not contradict itself. The problem is that people have taken Paul’s teachings and perverted them into something it isn’t.
Paul led Jews and gentiles to Christ. In fact, the churches that Paul wrote to contained Jews and gentiles. They didn’t have different understandings.
@@christincommon5496 if that were true then why did Paul feel the need to write letters correcting what he saw as improper understanding and worship of the gospel? Clearly there was more than one understanding of the message of Christ, or he wouldn’t have felt the need to be so demonstrative. Why does the book of James, Christ’s very own brother, not mention him as the son of God? Why does the Lord’s Prayer not mention it either. Those are huge contradictions if you think the message of the gospel is to have faith in Christ above all else. I would do more research before you say something as silly as there as no disconnect - it’s clear you’re not familiar with contemporary scholarship on the news testament. Let me guess, you probably think Matthew wrote Matthew and that Paul wrote Hebrews?
I so appreciate your ministry. Your book “Another Gospel” helped me greatly. I realized my own deconstruction was legalism, decisional theology, and emotionalism focused on the Holy Spirit rather than the Gospel of Christ. Thanks for sharing your story and looking forward to getting your new book on Truth.
Your ministry is so urgent for today. God is blessing you. Stay humble and seek God daily. Know how much he loves your obedience and LOVES YOU
Thank you! All praise be to God!
I used to belong to a very mainstream progressive church. I was teaching a Bible study one day. I don’t remember what the lesson was. After class the pastor came up to me and said “kind of sounds like a Greek tragedy doesn’t it”. 😢 crushing.
This is so good. I admit I've been kind of scared, but was reassured by your ending comments about knowing the gospel really well & why you believe it based on God's Word.
this was awesome!!! thank you so much
Thank you for this intellectual and well articulated interview. I appreciate this dialogue! Helps us to know what's out there, potentially harmful to the Truth of the faith!!! 🙏🏾
I really appreciate Alissa she is able to express many things pertaining to the gospel of the culture progressive Christian so well. I’m sorry she went through everything she went through doubt but I have to wonder if she was never in a church where the preaching of the Gospel actually satisfied her and that’s why she went to look for satisfaction of her intellect? I was a ninth grade dropout who got saved I was 24. I had a lot of growing to do uneducated I had no clue at all about the Bible Christianity or church until I got saved and began reading the Bible. I knew upon my salvation experience I had at encounter with God and after five months God brought Christians to me and I grew by the preaching of the gospel fellowship helped me to grow into the knowledge of Him and as the years went by I changed churches because I moved away. I have been inA church for 35 years where the preaching has satisfied my soul as well as my prayer life is satisfied, I could do better with reading the Word of God I’m sorry to say but I have never once been tempted by one word out of progressive Christianity but I have also never needed my intellect stimulated in any way it hadn’t been through the yrs by Gods word that I was convinced at upon salvation and the first year of reading the Gospel. I wonder if Alyssa was not satisfied because she was not in a church where the preaching of the Gospel satisfied her soul as well as her intellect. Then again not speaking of Alissa but many go looking and listening to things that the second they feel checked about what they’re hearing they should be walking out the door instead of hanging around until they’re totally ripped off
Jesus Christ the truth 🙏
praise the only true living LORD and GOD bless you all glory be to the HOLY TRINITY forever and ever amen 💖✝️✝️✝️
Alisa, I came across your story in the Gospel documentary and I really enjoyed your story and everyday I watch your videos and I'm so happy that you didn't give up on God instead the entire thing led you to TRUTH. Thank you for your ministry and devotion to lead more souls back to our Lord God!
Good stuff Alisa! I enjoy your ministry!
wow...love this...shared on my FB
The biggest thing that gets me is why do these people want to be called Christians? Their motivation is to do whatever they want anyway so why devote time and money on Sunday when you could be doing anything else? Do they just want the Christian 'stamp of approval' to get more parishioners, more money if the coffers?
Calling yourself as "Christian" gives at least some level of an inherent audience. At least some people will listen if you call yourself a Christian. These false teachers need to be in the "church" or "group", or else no money/fame.
Not to mention, telling people they can still be "christian" and do whatever they want is the most receptive message ever. God loves you, and you can do whatever. It's the Skittles of the evangelical world. The real gospel doesn't taste so sweet, but it will fill.
Good question. Hmmm
Because they are followers of Christ. It's pretty simple. Not everyone follows Christ the way you do or thinks like you. Example: Conservative Southern Baptist fully supported slavery and later the KKK. This is a matter of fact. They used Scripture to absolve themselves. This is a matter of fact. Progressive Christians, working out their faith, easily were able to prove that our faith was against slavery. Did Jesus explicitly state it? Yes and no. Love your neighbor as your self said it. But you had to work out your salvation to understand its ramifications. Conservative Southern Baptist didn't want to obey this, so they started a war that murdered 600,000 Americans. That's what you get with a simple unworked out faith. When you work your faith out sometimes you come across a question or answer that can greatly challenge your faith. Example: I lost my entire faith community because I pointed out that it's godless to demonize immigrants as rapists. Question: How could people who believe they have the Holy Spirit treat my family this way? Answer?: It's tough. Perhaps- They don't have the Holy Spite or the Holy Spirit doesn't work that way or This is what the scriptures talk about regarding persecution. I'm a devoted follower of Christ and there are other devoted followers of Christ whose witness is nothing like mine. That's okay.
Wow you understand the inner works , intentions, motivations of people you don't even know? Or is your statement based on assumptions? Genuinely curious
1 Corinthians 15. The apostle Paul had to fight the same antigospel
This is powerful. We have to protect the truth.
"Progressive Christianity" isn't Christianity, it's not the Gospel.
I hadn't realized how pervasive and deep this is.
Thank you so much for helping me/us to understand.
🙏✝️❤️
Totally off topic, but I think it every single video: I love your hair!!! 😁 Also, I really appreciate your videos! ❤️
Great question about what the opposite of progressive Christianity would be. What I have seen is that it equates to certainty in meaning of scripture, certainty in which rules God wants us to obey and which ones we can ignore, and being bold in telling others how they should think and behave based off the “certainty” of scripture.
Watching from South Africa, thank you Alisha
Lovely video. What an intelligent lady. True faith is found when you truly know what you believe in.
Beautiful smile Mrs. Alisa.
1 Peter 3:15 👑
Sinmply stated "CONTED FOR THE FAITH" Beloved, and pray to be able to DISCERN, through The Holy Spirit and The Word, the sheep's clothing being worn out there!!
Held your own with that guy!!
Excellent 👍✝️
great video
Good discussion... Keller was mentioned a few times positively and while he's certainly said some true things he also throws out questionable approaches, (search Keller white skin problem woke preacher clips) that has helped lead the church to our current state.
I've really appreciated Keller's ministry as a whole. I think some of the issue can come from his context being so different from some of his audience. He's obviously very well read and accustomed to thinking and speaking in more "secular" terminology as he does real life ministry primarily with urban elites. But to someone in another context, it's a bit like listening to a tightrope artist tell everyone to just hop on and start walking. If you don't know what you're doing, it's very easy to lose your balance and fall (into pure apostasy, or at least a very groundless faith). I think he's best engaged with by those who are already grounded and can safely walk the tightrope and are able to "test and approve" charitably but confidently, but a lot of young people these days don't even have a solid foundation yet.
@@tayh.6235 I use to think along those lines but have come to view him more like Kinsey in that his piblic persona points one way while his agenda is other. The doc What Happened to Tim Keller, (I think) by Conversations That Matter is worth your time if curious...
@@chiefofsinners5272 That's quite sad as the man is brimming with wisdom and knowledge. One can learn a great deal from him. 95%+ of his sermons on UA-cam have very positive comments. I don't know of any preacher/teacher who I like more.
@@chiefofsinners5272 I searched it out and yes, there is a video by that name. Here is a comment on it:
"Thanks for the video.
I must say that I've been greatly blessed by the ministry of Tim Keller. Of course he have some flaws and points I could disagree, but thanks God that I am called to hold on the good and reject the evil.
It is worth to mention that besides the people mentioned in this video he also has a Very Wide spectrum of "influencers" and by his preaching I have come to read more of reformers, lewis, whitefield, lloyd jones and others (and btw I have never think of reading a book of Marx by his influence).
Jesus is Lord"
I don't have the time to watch a 38 min' vid' about him but I, no doubt, would take this approach if I saw anything negative about his preaching.
@@curiousgeorge555 it's a conclusion I didn't come to willingly.
I think it's easy enough for any human being to get swept up in their persona/performance (myself included).
I was talking to someone about progressive Christianity and how it's deceiving so many people. It eventually led me to your content. I praise God for what He's called you to do. I'm thankful to know there are discerning believers speaking out against this. Truth in love.
"Progressive" needs to be defined as progress towards what? If one is being progressively pushed towards a cliff and ultimately death. Progressive Christianity is progressing towards the death of ones faith and understanding of truth.
Not just any truth, but the truth of God's Word. The problem today is everybody wants to have "their truth".
Progressive Christianity is referring to the woke Christianity that is practiced by the "progressive" liberals of today. The ones who say Jesus could have been gay or trans, God may be a woman, amen and awomen, there's nothing wrong with being gay because God made you that way and there's nothing wrong with living in sin, etc.
@@robertstewart1573 what exactly is wrong with being gay?
@@reality1958 It's a sin according to scripture, just like adultery or fornication. No serious scholar disagrees, even honest progressive ones. You may disagree, but people who take the Bible and pleasing God seriously do not.
@@regpharvey so there isn’t any real reason why it’s wrong just because the bible says so
Very good. Love this interview. Thank you. However, it’s interesting u quote Tim Keller on these issues who is now presenting a social justice gospel that turns the true gospel upside down.
EXCELLENT Audio in this video. Not too far-away sounding. Clear and not muffled. Loud enough to sound "close".
It is Alisa's channel and of course she can do what she wants. This is her "place".
While I am quite glad I found her and am also grateful she is exposing Progressive christianity, I feel she's already made enough videos to do a good job of that. The whole "progressive" thing is basically social justice and politics-in-the-church over several things that were never the Church's job to fix in the first place.
So...what I would do different is: get the focus back on the REAL reasons people leave the church. Alot of this progressive stuff is "distraction" in my opinion. Its good that we know about it, but she's done that now. We need to much better address the UNANSWERED QUESTIONS that "Deconstructors" wrestle with:
1. The problem of evil
2. Why is Hell eternal? Is it? Are there levels of punishment?
3. Will Hindu's who pray to Brahma go to hell?
4. How did Jesus get out of the tomb?
5. What about Near-death experiences?
6. Do we have an ACCURATE Bible translation of the original teachings?
7. Why should anyone believe Calvinism?
8. What if Once saved,always saved isn't true...and you CAN "lose it"? You have free will. You can fall away. You can TURN away. Jesus talked about a house built on sand. . .
9. What is wrong with philosophical "Naturalism"?
10. If my husband/wife goes to hell and I go to Heaven, will I remember them?
11. Why dont churches today have anything else to preach about but endless sermon after sermon about:
Grace
"love" and
God-has-a-plan-for-yor-life and
Calvinism...?
12. Why dont more churches take-a-stand when there is a clear bible verse? Why do they water ir down, say its "out-of-context", say many other things are sins, too, (as if almost to excuse whatever) and mostly avoid talking or preaching about anything controversial in the first place? Why join or be a member of something that doesnt stand for anything or have any standards or definite beliefs, other than "tolerance"?
THESE are the things people need far more convincing answers to. My opinion. PS--recently got Alisa book "Another Gospel". Looking forward to reading more. Not even halfway into it yet. :)
Thank you
What he fails to realize is that it is very possible that his idea of God is wrong…and I do agree that if you put the burdens of his potentially wrong ideas about God onto others, it can be extremely damaging. The first area where he’ll see that damage is in relationships.
Wow she is a very, very good public speaker. Aside from the truth of her words.
I really appreciated the testimony of Alisha and her honest recounting of that journey. Sadly, I have to say that when this pastor started quoting Tim Keller, all his credibility for discernment and strict adherence to Scripture and the true Gospel just flew out the window for me.
"Progressive Christianity" is not Christianity at all, but glorified atheism.
It is based on the same Lie that was there at the beginning - "You will be as Gods."
More like 'Fauxgressive Christianity'.
I would say that it is more closer to what is called Moralistic Therapeutic Deism.
Some of their way of thinking would be
Belief in a God who remains distant from people’s lives
People are supposed to be good to each other (i.e., moral)
The universal purpose of life is being happy and feeling good about oneself
There are no absolute moral truths
God allows “good people” into Heaven
God places very limited demands on people
It's Apostasy
@@regpharvey John 10:34 "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods"’?
When you encounter a "progressive Christian" kindly and respectfully ask if they believe in absolutes. When they answer no, ask how then are they able to recognize progress.
Do you need a measuring tape to determine is one stick is longer than another?
@@truncated7644 You don‘t. But how do you determine if the stick has to be longer or if it‘s the right stick to begin with?
@@dartheli7400 Good question, but it supports my point that when you assess things that are supposedly objectively different, what you assess and by what standards is subjective. I objectively consider the murder of babies wrong, based on a subjective standard virtually all humans agree on.
@@truncated7644 What do you mean by „things that are supposedly objectively different“? Something is objectively true, if it‘s true regardless of someone‘s opinion. Either the murder of babies is objectively wrong, or it isn‘t. If your standard is subjective, then by definition it cannot be objective.
@@truncated7644 You can assess whether certain measures objectively work towards accomplishing a subjective goal, but that doesn‘t make the goal objective.
E.g. you can make murdering babies illegal, which objectively works towards preventing the murder of babies. But that doesn‘t automatically mean the murder of babies is objectively wrong. This still begs the question why murdering babies is objectively wrong.
Also Yes.
Heading the term progressive remind me of what's was once termed the liberal church (not all liberal mindset is bad by any means) and what's the fundamentalist stood against.
In the late nineties early millennium the movement was more termed the Emerging/ Emergent church. Main leaders were part of that trend of post modernist thought, people like Pagett, McClaren and Rob Bell. 'New spirituality' is another term for that trend from my understanding, but also seems to have fractured into the new age movement under a different label.
Just my thoughts
There promoting Gia to me on your page lol 😂
“But there are not a few who would be indignant at having their belief in God questioned, who yet seem greatly to fear imagining Him better than He is.”
- George MacDonald
"Traditions." A short video about whether or not Lent is something you should pay any attention to. Watch it by going to the red dot to the left there. Leave a comment if you care to
Would Andy Stanley's (not Charles, his father) ministry be considered Progressive Christianity?
Yep in a large way, or more accurately in his case is just plain heresy.
Unfortunately he strayed extremely far from the teachings of Charles Stanley. Or of course more appropriately, the Bible.
Why would you categorize Andy Stanely as a Progressive Christian?
@@tammyweatherly6127 Stanley believes the Bible needs our help, that his words are more effective than the Bible’s at reaching lost people. Which is just a way of saying that God’s Word isn’t good enough. He regularly practices by how he leads his church "sermons" and in some of his books and interviews. He regularly talks about the Bible is not effective on its own (or at all in some cases), and that in our "modern" times we need dress it up. Basically he goes by not "what is Biblical" but by "but works." Very "seeker-sensitive and attraction based "church."
If you've listened to his sermons, interviews, etc. and you aren't completely sure, then (I really don't enjoy using this as an answer) the "internet search" is your friend. And of course if you reference (and contrast what he says) the Bible in it's full context is always the best way.
Yes he is, not his Dad though.
Is there any way to know what the church was and who the pastor was that taught Alisa progressive Christianity?
So as I'm listening, I'm thinking , "wow, what fabulous hair".
Alisa often refers to early churchfathers or early christians. Did she ever said when the "early" phase ended? Or do i misunderstand the concept?
Anything with the word 'progressive' in it should be highly questioned.
*Progressive Insurance
*Progressive Rock
*Progressive BBQ
( one of these is not like the others)
Progressive Christianity is not Christianity in the same way that coca cola is not pure crystalline water.
Progressive Christianity is not Christianity in the same way that rotten wood is not carbon steel.
Progressive Christianity or not, does not matter. How you live out your faith is what truly counts. If you call yourself a tried and true Christian and treat people like shit and look down on them, your faith is worthless.
I'm not worried about this stuff for myself, but my heart is very broken for my family. They have started attending a progressive Christian church, are now completely affirming of LGBT stuff, and even have said they are unsure what they believe about whether or not the Bible is the inerrant word or God.
My heart is just broken. I have no idea how to help them. I've tried many times to talk to them, even using similar discussion as what Alisa recommended, and tried to appeal to them on the front of being a fellow sister in Christ and being iron sharpening iron, and no matter what I say or how carefully I say it, how much I pray about it, how much I feel that God has led my words, they don't want to even listen. They just get offended and defensive and say that I'm attacking them and their church and that they don't see any use in us discussing this stuff that we disagree about. They always go back to saying that they love Jesus and they aren't believing anything unbiblical and they are following the Holy Spirit.
It doesn't seem to matter what I say or how I say it. They just can't hear me. I've come to the point of saying the only thing I have left to do is just keep praying for them, because it's clear that they aren't able to hear anything I say to them.
It's been a really, really rough year since I found out about this. My heart is broken for them and I pray for them pretty much every day. I know it's in God's hands, and I honestly feel hopeful that someday they will come out of these lies. But in the meantime, I'm just living with a lot of sadness and heartache, feeling totally out of control and unable to do anything to help them.
I would really appreciate everybody's prayers, if you think of me and my family.
Have you listened to their perspective? You don't need to be worried for them, though: sounds like they're still Christians.
Serious question here…if God doesn’t change and The Bible is His words that are only written through men, how do we account for laws such as needing to stone rebellious kids? Should I still stone my child if he rebels? God doesn’t change and this is clearly His word, so maybe I should do this to honor His holiness?
The term progressive can easily be misunderstood. Strict does not necessarily mean conservative, and progressive does not necessarily mean heretical. There has never been a closed canon on WISDOM. If that is not true then why did God's word begin as 5 books, and then over many centuries gradually increase to 66 plus the Apocryphas ?
If "your God" is not Capable of having delivered an accurate copy of the words He wanted us you have, then woe is you.
traditional christianity does not progress. God is the same yesterday, today and forever.
Amen. That’s what I believe 100 percent. The Word of God was, is, and will always be.
Christ
_______
Culture
Can we just acknowledge that no one rocks grey/silver hair like Alisa?
I have ordered a book by Alisa Childers. I hope I'm not going to be disappointed with that same old Christian stuff
Progressive and conservative terms are full of different meaning. Conservative Christianity absolutely failed and harmed my family(southern Baptist). 40+ years of teaching bible study has shown there are extremely difficult issues of the scripture, slavery for instance. Asking questions and looking at the bible from a scholarly viewpoint and a religious one, is tremendously difficult and as a result many have a simple faith for fear of asking hard questions. For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief. If the scriptures haven't grieved you, you haven't really read it. For me, it's led to a greater appreciation of Jesus. What happens to a simple people with simple trust. They get led easily and gullibly. They harm the stranger and
Can you call someone who doesn't think that we need atonement for our sins & who accuses God of cosmic child abuse a Christian?
Nope, because they have fallen into the heresy of Pelagianism.
@@fnjesusfreak Yup. You're saying that God is not God when you deny the need for atonement and you're saying He is evil when you accuse him of "cosmic child abuse". If you believe that way, I don't understand why you would call yourself Christian.
@@meomy29 There's even a term for that: Dystheism (the concept that God is evil).
Progressive Christianity is no more than Secularism which means it’s all about me and my feelings and Jesus becomes an obstacle that why they have reduced him to being a Good Guy and dismiss his divinity. From Dublin Ireland
He quoted Tim Keller???!
Dose anyone know anything about eternal blessing ?is it progressive
I dont really know what im supposed to take from this. To me it seems like shes trying to help people avoid having to think about challenging beliefs. I guess i wanna know what are some ways to get a good grasp of what "historic christianity" entails? Books? UA-camrs? Other sources?
Have you watched any of her other videos? Would encourage you to if you haven’t.
@@Bodypiercingsavedmylife I have seen some. Ive heard her talk about the creed in 1 cor 15 being important to historic christianity, but it is my impression that a lot of liberal and progressive christians can affirm that creed, and the apostolic creed. That includes me even though theres a lot of those beliefs i dont think can be proven and has to be taken on faith. But yes, anything that could be a clear introduction to historic christianitys beliefs, like a course or a text that highlights what it believes and how it is distinguished from other views, if you know any specific places to find that.
C. Baxter Kruger, a theologian who really helped me with a deeper understanding of God in three persons, and you'll learn a good bit from him about the early greek fathers.
Matt 18:3 is probably the best synopsis of what historic Christianity is, and how it differs from Progressive Christianity.
😯
Is Tim Keller a progressive Christian?
No, his doctrine is solid on all the foundational beliefs. He approves of some policies that are more on the Democrat or libertarian views, but he really does seem to try to work out his views from his understanding of scripture and not just squish scripture into a particular worldview that was already held.
I don't agree with everything he's ever said, but from what I've seen I do respect and appreciate him.
"It's like a seminary degree" - it is not a seminary degree if there were no Hebrew and Greek exegesis courses with line by line diagramming and literacy tests. When you study the very words of the ancient world and put thousands of hours into learning a million things so that you can crawl your way through the Bible like a toddler, then the humility for the Scriptures puts you in your place and makes it less likely you will throw it away for a new fad. When I see seminaries selling degrees without ancient language requirements, I am sad for the people who think they are being taught at the highest level.
I do study the underlying Hebrew and Greek words, and I do believe they are insightful; but there's more than enough going on in the English text to keep Christians busy. The average Christian doesn't have time to study Hebrew and Greek.
@@davidlafleche1142 I am not a professional clergy, so my only point is not to bash English Bibles, because I love English. I'm just saying that professional seminary education is based on textual analysis that can only be done in Greek & Hebrew. When people only study doctrine, or English Bible, then they have to rely on other people for grammatical opinions, which means they are dependent on other opinions. But when you know grammar, you can preach "Thus Saith the Lord" because you don't need any commentary to tell you what is going on in the text. I am not saying we all need to learn languages, just saying that a seminary degree is not a real seminary degree unless there are languages.
@@SibleySteve So-called "seminaries" have no authority. As a personal rule, I write doctrinal material that can be confirmed by the average person.
@@davidlafleche1142 OK whatever but that's not the point she made in the video. You're going off on a hobby horse.
This is a very narrow view.,
Is traditional Christianity harmful may be a better question? Traditional Christianity rooted in performance based acceptance that is basically repackaged law 2.0 leaving believers wondering what the Cross accomplished is a breeding ground for giving up and reaching for something else.
The Gospel is Good News of the kindness of God toward man. The reconciliation of the world to God that God was in Christ not counting mens trespasses against them.
We are ambassadors of that message and we aren’t delivering that message. (2 Cor 5:17-21) We are more like the prodigal sons older brother that hate the grace of their father and expect them to have to pay a price and clean them selves up to count them as deserving.
I can’t understand that there talking about progressive Christianity aka woke , yet he quotes Tim Keller who is king progressive actually Marxist I’m confused?
Why not just call it Biblical Christianity? The Bible alone is our authority.
Interesting discussion that hits me differently as I'm walking through my own season. Their entire framework is still hard because I just see contradictions. Like when Childers says we need to plant out words in Scripture because it doesn't change...that's true-ish, but it's more accurate to say "it doesn't change anymore" because it's pretty evident within the biblical texts there was change (like within the law, contradictory laws about slaves that come from different layers of legal texts over time complied into one, so later authors CHANGED older laws to better suit the new situation // or how gospel writers literally CHANGED earlier gospel writers or sources, like how Matthew added to and changed Jesus' teaching on divorce that he pulled from Mark and the Q-source // or how Chronicles CHAGNED a number of details in Kings to better fit his framework for his history). So the Bible shows lots of evidence of it's own "progress" and "internal changes" -- it's only "unchanging" now because we've close the canon.
But then when Nelson says modern people don't want to accept something even if it's true...Christians do this too. I think about the book of Daniel. The weight of evidence really points to Daniel being written (or finalized) in the 2nd century BC, not in Babylon by Daniel. This is where all the evidence points to and the only reason Christians don't believe this is because they have a conclusion they NEED to be true, and therefore deny reality (Daniel was written 2nd century) and hold on to non-truth (Daniel was written in 6th century Babylon). So I look at that and see Christians gladly deny reality when it suits them as well. These are some of my problems with the Christian faith at the moment.
It sounds like you need to look at your sources who are telling you that the gospel writers changed what God inspired them to write.
What are their motives for saying these things? What proof do they have?
@@aimebelle1 I'm not really looking at sources (yes, I try to read extensively, so lots of ideas out there) but I'm actually just reading the Bible, not reading some atheists memoir. As I've studied the Bible the differences and development is clear.
There are lots of examples, but in terms of moments in which an author is clearly and intentionally changing a previous piece of scripture, a good example is Mark 10:46 and Luke 18:35. It's not a huge theological change, but it's a change. In Mark 10:46, Mark writes that Jesus met the blind man while LEAVING Jericho. Luke CHANGES that to say he met him while APPROACHING Jericho.
Now, Luke isn't "remembering something" (he wasn't there) he is using Mark as a source (ALL scholars, even all Christian scholars, agree that Luke is literally looking at Mark in front of him and using him a source for his gospel. So Luke intentionally changed the detail? But why? Because Luke wanted the story of Zacchaeus in Jericho to be the final narrative before Jesus goes into Jerusalem, and if he had Jesus heal the blind man LEAVING Jericho, then Zacchaeus wouldn't be the final narrative. So Luke intentionally and knowingly CHANGES the story in Mark to fit his writing agenda. This happens a lot in the gospels.
Matthew adapted Jesus' teaching about divorce and (only he) added the clause about infidelity allowing for divorce. Jesus likely didn't say this, but Matthew alone (neither Mark nor Luke preserved that exception...most likely conclusion, because Matthew added it). But that's fine, Matthew was apostolic, so he was able to adapt the teachings of Jesus. But he did change it.
Comparisons between Kings and Chronicles show copious times the author of Chronicles changed the book of Samuel and Kings (and we know that Chronicles was literally USING those books, so he wasn't just "remembering" differently, he was looking at the text, and changing it to fit his theological agenda). Most obvious examples of this in 2 Sam 21:1, GOD told David to take the census. In 1 Chronicles 21:1, SATAN told David to take the census. The author of Chronicles literally changed the story.
He does this again with the death of Josiah. In 2 Kgs 23:29-30 Josiah is killed at Meggido and "carried dead" to Jerusalem. The author of 2 Chronicles 35:24 literally CHANGES it to say he was carried to Jerusalem and died there. Why make the change (they can't both be true)... because Chronicles needs Josiah a righteous king to die in Jerusalem to better fit his theology, so he changes Kings AND says something that didn't happen historically (but Chronicles is filled with this type of reworking history to fit the Chronicler's theology...it's what he does).
And as for the law of Moses, if you look at the different laws about slavery in Exodus 20-21, Deut 15, and Lev 25 --- they all are different, and sometime contradictory in their content. This is fine and best explained as different legal traditions developing at different times and then later compiled together. But later laws looked back on previous ones and changed them accordingly.
There's much more I could say. And I'm not wanting you to change your mind about the Bible. I am just trying to point out 1) their blanket statement that the Bible is unchanging is a difficult conclusion to hold (imo) because that's not a conclusion the text naturally lends to 2) don't assume people who say things about the bible are just "hoodwinked" by bad sources ... lots of people study the Bible, like myself, and I don't need "accademic sources" to simply read, observe and interpret the most natural conclusions.
@@lynwattam I certainly don't want to have a back and forth with you on this. I believe in the God inspired, inerrant Word of God. I am not sure why you are reading the Bible? Are you searching for something? Is God calling you and you are looking for ways to struggle against Him? Are you yourself wanting to believe in Christ, but are too busy looking at what you call errors to see it? That God loves you and wants you to be in His Kingdom. That Christ died for your sins. That by faith and repentance and turning from our old ways we will become more and more like Jesus. That once saved God will put the Holy Spirit in you and He will be your comforter and you will be able to discern what is truth and what is not. The New Testament gives us the Gospel and God's plan to have Jesus die for our sins. Please look at the Gospel with a fresh light. Pray to God to open your eyes to Him and to believe.
@@aimebelle1 Ya, I agree, I don't want to pursue a back and forth. I wasn't trying to convince people to change their minds on the Bible, but I just found some of the statements in the video a bit unfair to people like me (and many others) who have studied the Bible out a desire to know God, but still find development in the Scriptures, times the authors changed previous texts, and the like. That doesn't mean Jesus didn't rise from the dead and God's not real, it just means the Scriptures maybe aren't as simply as Childers makes them out to be, as she calls them "unchanging" -- they are unchanging now, but not in their own development, and definitely not in the time of Jesus when the content of the canon and the content of books themselves were in flux (we just need to compare the Masoretic text version of Jeremiah and the Septuagint version to realize how much some books were still being adapted and changed up to the time of Jesus).
I'm not trying to change your mind on things, I just see a lot of comments here of people praising these guys as if their conclusions are the most evident and obvious. But I'm just saying it's hard for people (like me) to see their conclusions as self-evidently true. Eric Nelson above talked about when "facts don't change our minds" and when I look at the Scriptures, it seems like fact that there were changes within the textual tradition. I want that "Fact" to change my mind, the very thing that Nelson says we should all be doing.
It is called Progressive., but it is Actually NEW AGE. Using the right term is imperative.
Calling it a Christian movement is a deceit. It is a Lie.
🔶You worship a mortal creation of God who couldn’t save himself from the cross, He begged, cried, prayed God to save him from the cross, but his God didn’t save him! So how come do you want Jesus to save you if he couldn’t save himself? 🌹♥️
I spent 5 months in a church before I realized it was Mormon, so I left. Now read my new book "My life as a Mormon [even though I was never actually a Mormon]"
Remember your ministry partner's advice: "12: On Unsolicited Opinions"
"Discernment is not knowing the difference between right and wrong. It is knowing the difference between right and almost right." -Charles Spurgeon. - Yes, the Progressive "church" is very harmful to Christianity.
Thinking like still being a sinner flesh one father that had you born of woman is still sinner and judge what spirit ONE FATHER never needs to judge or remember in you and all man.
So why was Jesus as son of man was never called a sinner by Spiritual Father we all have.
Keep judging man and receive it back is a hard grace and mercy for new agers.
What is the barrier to actual Orthodoxy? It screams here.
Sister, I want to show you something, I'd like the Lord helps you see, *John 4:25*
The bit about holiness and her strawman argument concerning sin, made me pause the video. All I'm seeing is a case being made for a certain paradigm of understanding. You can have a paradigm shift that doesn't change any "truth" about scripture, but it does change the meaning behind it. Sin, for example from my searching in early church history, was thought of more as a disease needing a cure, not a debt requiring a payment. This does not nullify the cross, but allows a different image of God the Father and His heart for his creatures to be painted. I really don't understand the logic of "God is holy, therefore he cannot be around sin" Jesus is God the Son, and BECAME sin for us! and God the Father was in Him on the Cross reconciling the world to Himself. And where is the Holy Spirit in this whole process within the penal substitutionary framework? These conversations always devolve into a monotheistic concept of "God" but will immediately give lip service to the Trinity, when caught. Seriously, where is the Holy Spirit and what is the Spirit's role in the framework of PSA? It's an atonement *theory*, and one that isn't even Trinitarian.
In Habakkah, God is said to be too pure to look at evil. In 1 John 2, Jesus is the Propitiation for our sin. That word means atoning sacrifice. The wages of sin is death. Penal substitution is very Biblical.
The whole Trinity is involved in our salvation...Check out Ephesians 1 ...Chosen by The Father, redeemed by the Son, sealed by the Spirit.
@@anthonybarber3872 “so why do you?” Is the ending to that Habakkuk verse.
Jesus was 'glad' to die? Thinking of Gethsemane - maybe 'chose to die' is closer to the truth.
This woman's videos keep coming up in my recommended. question: what does she stand to lose if she gives up Christianity,...uhm, cough, cough, maybe her income as a christian artist. I mean we can't have people questioning the validity of the Bible or church doctrine and keep Christian artists funded.
She needs to answer one question for me. How does an old testament god who says human sacrifice is an abomination decide to turn around and sacrifice his own human son in the new testament??
1 Corinthians 9:14 NIV - In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.
@@pepere2205 uhm, you are quoting Paul, the false apostle who went against the disciples at Jerusalem and taught contrary to them, who also was constantly guarded by the Roman authorities that he was working for,...in his mission to subdue the Jewish rebellion.
@@stephaniemcguire People weren't sacrificing their children in love, in order to save the human race from eternal damnation. Only God can do that. 1 John 4:10 NIV - This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
@@pepere2205 yeah, I know that verse. Who wrote all this anyway?? Cuz whoever wrote that just admitted the Most High committed an abomination of sacrificing his son. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.
Sadly God's teachings have been manipulated by the powerful to justify so many atrocities from slavery, wars, to killings that the pendulum has swung the other way. Now either today's youth is turned off by the idea of living by God's teachings or they are following an adulterated version of God's teachings that allows them to live a spiritually vacant, immoral life, where debauchery, vice and glutinous behavior is seen as the norm. It is sad to see so many young people that are lost.
may I assume you are therefore a regressive Christian..... and may I ask.... is that synonymous with conservative???
Is the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints a progressive church?
The Latter Day Saints beliefs and behaviors are far closer to the early Jews and Christians thousands of years ago than Alissa's or any other denomination currently practiced. Whether that's good or bad is up to you to decide, but it is far more "historical" than the strange god Alissa worships.
@@EatHoneyBeeHappy thank you for your reply. I am in fact a member of the church I spoke of. I was curious to know if someone else thought my beliefs were that of a progressive Christian church or not. Again , thank you for your honesty.
@@kristinrichmond8185 No problem Kristin! I am not a Mormon myself, but I have more respect for you than Alissa's version of Christianity. It appears to me that Alissa and Christians like her have tied their religion closer to the Republican party than to the Bible or to the early Christians. She says she doesn't want to get political in this video but Christians in her denomination seem to love Donald Trump more than they love Jesus.
@@EatHoneyBeeHappy I like your name I like honey.😁. I have a question though... what does it mean to be "Christian"? I am a follower of Christ I do not connect it any way to Trump or any political party, it is very dishonest to project on Christ followers a certain political group because of holding to a biblical view.
Do they teach the bible? Do they teach Jesus as the bible teaches or do they interpret it by a man's reasoning? Following Christ is not a religious group...it is relationship with the God of the bible. There is God's truth... Jesus said he was truth.. God bless you as we all search for truth.
Get right with God friends, don't wait another day! About 500 prophecies fulfilled hundreds and thousands of years in advance prove the Bible is God's word. Believe and repent, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4!
If you are a historical Christian returning to its roots then you will be the lone person practicing your particular "faith"
Nah. I'd prefer the roots of Christianity than what it's become today. Lots of wolves in sheep's clothing leading people astray with false teachings.
What do you mean?
So you like being around a bunch of hell-talkers who just hammer about sin, God's wrath and the end times even though that goes against God's love, and you call that being "saved"? Saved from love/kindness/peace? In fact, the idea of eternal hell is unbiblical and verses from the Hebrew Bible that people mistranslate as hell actually means the grave (Sheol in Hebrew).
The irony of this terrible woman talking about lying to people about God has to be self aware on some level. So sick.
Are you lying or telling the truth?
Neville Goddard taught true spiritual meanings by experience being first fleshing then Spiritual meaning who, what, you are which can be Christ in any flesh religions you still judge.
Neville Goddard taught blasphemy. He taught the you are gods message. It is helping leas people astray.
He literally took everything out of context, gave the bible his own interpretation, and said a master naked Abdullah taught him.
Name a perceivable difference between the Holy Spirit and your conscience. I’ll wait.
The Holy Spirit is God, the 3rd Person of the Trinity; and my conscience is not.
@@FalconOfStorms Still waiting
The Holy Spirit works on your conscience. He convicts you of sin. Many people have a seared conscience & therefore are numb to sin as defined in the Bible because they reject Christ. So, the Holy Spirit is more than a conscience. He is a person of the Trinity who teaches & guides you in the things of God & the truth of the Bible, not just any truth.
There are many "morally" upright individuals who reject Jesus. They merely become self-righteous in their works, but their conscience is not convicted of sin. Only the Holy Spirit can convict you of sin once you have been saved. It is a sensitivity toward the things of God led by the Holy Spirit who leads us & guides us into God's truth.
@@barbs1298 Still waiting
My conscience can lie to me, but the Holy Spirit never does.
Min 20:20: “your changing the word of god when you add to this”. -Jesus, according to Alisa Childers ok well what about literally everything Paul wrote about Jesus after his death? It’s amazing how confident Christians are when they are so clearly uneducated about their own scripture. Embarrassing.
You did not do a really good job of defining what progressive Christianity is? Someone who realizes parts of the Bible are indeed metaphorical or poetic? The Bible is hardly a black and white document.....
There is a proper way to read it and to interpret the parables. Progressive Christianity makes a mockery of the Bible and takes many of the scriptures out of context.