I know some people are going to watch this video and immediately jump to the (false) conclusion that I am stating these claims as FACTS and that it's REAL drama that had taken place between Single Track and 989 Studios back during TM3/4's development but that could not be further from the truth or what I stated in the video. Yes, those comments could be from someone lying about who they are and I was and still am 100% under the impression that could very well be the case. Duh. However, after a bit more research I looked more into that youtube channel from the comments shown and it actually turns out that it belongs to CAVAN BUNTING who also had worked on TM3. Here is their IMBD page: www.imdb.com/name/nm1424475/ That is my mistake, they were NOT Kolbe, but instead Cavan. Now yes this STILL could be a fake account pretending to be him of course, but it also could be the real person and that's why I just wanted to show you all about these comments and to get YOUR thoughts on them. Not to claim anything is concreate or factual. I thought I made that quite clear in the video but I guess not lol
Remember that at the time Single Trac wanted to buy Twisted Metal from Sony and Kelly Flock the Boss at 989 and Sony America said "F*ck you" because Single Trac was very Hostile about it because they felt they had the winning Hand by owning the game engine for TM2
@@clubcasabe3450 yeah and they made Rogue Trip with it, which ended up being a better game in terms of gameplay. But without the internet being as big or easily accessible as it is today, the average consumer wouldn’t have known it was the original team. They’d assume it’s some cheap knock off and pay no mind to it while purchasing Twisted Metal III instead.
One thing I never understood about the video game industry, is how in-house, secretive, and occultic it really seems. While the Indie Dev and obvious internet opens things up in terms of information leaks or just genuine discussion from devs/designers it's still weird to me that game design of all things would operate like Big industries (Music, Pharmacy, Celebrities).
This may just be my opinion but I think there may be some legitmacy to the claim. David Jaffe has admitted to he and SingleTrac butting heads over some of the creative choices in the first two Twisted Metal games, I believe that they were part of the reason why the video endings were never released (because of the women in bikinis in the endings). It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that someone from there, did say something. We also know David Jaffe can be protective over some of his creations. Again, just speculation but it may line up here
This sounds sus, especially the "off to make a new game" *Leaves chat* part. I remember stumbling upon a Facebook page called "Crash Bandicoot the Untold Story" which was supposed to be one of the original devs that didn't get the credit they deserved from the rest of the Naughty Dog team. I don't really remember the specifics, but eventually the page just petered out and nothing seemed to come of it. I just double checked and some folks are calling this Dave Siller guy a known fraud. Unless this chatter can back hims claims up with receipts or an old build or something, I'd just write him off as a shit-stirrer.
One thing I don't understand is, as far as I'm aware, Sony owned the Twisted Metal characters, not Singletrac. How could Singletrac limit what characters could or couldn't be used if they didn't own the characters?
Yeah, this. Not sure how we could have been limited when we owned the characters. I don't remember why we did/didn't use certain characters, but I think a lot of it was that new artists wanted to create new characters and flex their creative muscles while keeping some amount of the original characters to still keep it in the Twisted Metal realm. For what it's worth, both Kolbe and Cavan were APs on the project, so I could see that getting jumbled up :) But, yeah, that picture on the UA-cam account and the Roadkill reference is 100% Cavan for sure.
Merch store?! YAY! Everybody buy stuff before Nick gets omega famous. "i was a fan BEFORE Nick got famous!" Congrats on the merch store, can't wait to check it out. It would make sense (considering the emphasis on new characters in TM4) buuuut that's curious if true. I wonder if it was a legal document, or if it was a " plz don't use our OC's go make yer own. "
If you go to the merch store I'm the description, put an item in your cart and add your shipping info. Streamlabs handles the shipping so I am not sure if they include international or not. I do know they ship to Canada so it's possible they ship to Brazil!
Aside from the grain of salt you have to take this with without confirmation it IS him, I have one question: Why would they not be allowed to use the characters? If Sony retained the Twisted Metal IP and SingleTrac left their partnership with Sony, wouldn't that mean they no longer had any jurisdiction over the franchise? If I recall correctly the original creator of Lara Croft, Toby Gard, left Core Design after Tomb Raider 1 because he had no say over Eidos' marketing team oversexualizing his character (despite making her with giant breasts). Could SingleTrac have retained the rights to any of these characters? If they did I imagine they'd have maybe used them in Rogue Trip. I'm not even remotely a legal expert so obviously I'm talking out of my ass, but I just don't know why Sony would care in this scenario or how that would have been enforceable.
@@wallaceshawn-zk8iw I always wondered about the mistake angle because of the fact his concept art of Lara always seemed to have some titanic titties. Maybe he didn't intend it for the final release like you said
hmm Juicy indeed But For all silly comments out the way I like the video you just made But I had a question for the merch Does this allow in to my country? Since I don't live in US
Without even watching this video or hearing about said possible drama I already know where this is gonna go jaffe feeling on the outs of his prodigal “video game child” first it was TM that got ripped from him. Than gow
So I was a little close I’d def assume it was Sony/jaffe that kinda caused the possible problems during development if true but it almost lines up with how his content comes out nowadays so I really wouldn’t be surprised I love jaffe he made two of my favorite series of all time (I legit got the blades of chaos on me) but I’m not blinded by my like for him to put it past him I’ve talked with him through a few tweets before he’s interesting and (pretty down to earth) considering my conversation with him was about what character I should play on TM 4 😂 but I’ve def seen his negative side as well but I honestly can’t fully blame him for it either I’d feel a certain way about the product I created as well
It's kind of sad because I love Twisted Metal 4. I am biased because I grew up with it, but I don't understand the hatred it gets. But I haven't played 1 or 2. One of the criticisms I've seen some people spit out is that they don't like the more car like physics 3 and 4 has over 1 and 2. .....They hate a car game where the cars play like cars??
this is very interesting stuff, but why is the video exported in 60fps? Only TM Black runs at 60fps, so in other games it's just going to balloon the filesize and chug slower computers. (I had to watch it at 480p... lol)
60 FPS looks better in most cases and since I emulate the games running at 60 FPS it makes sense. Plus that's why there are the options for different video quality so people with slower internet (such as yourself) can watch just as someone who has higher internet can enjoy it at higher quality :)
I realize it doesn't fit everyone's lifestyle; UA-cam Premium is essential for me and it has "paid for itself" over multiple times. Yearly payments instead of monthly saves a noticeable amount as well. Still, thank you for removing mid-roll ads.
only i noticed not used characters (person) like Outlaw Jamie become blonde not look like in tm 2 and Mike & Stu replaced whit granny maybe it mean not use specific character like them?
I think Sonic owns the franchise but the character's names are property of whoever legally registered the characters as theirs. This is why in TM4 we have cap green, super Thumper, Super slam and some Original characters, but most of the original characters were gone. I think that hurt the game even more. I don't care what he says about sales, TM3 sold because of TM2 not because it was a good game. Sure, TM3 is fun to play, but as a whole this game fails miserably. Horrible maps, horrible endings, terrible bosses, terrible car design, and terrible characters. TM3 actually killed the franchise. Again TM3 is my favorite TM, but lets be honest 65% of the game is terrible. it is crazy because TM3 actually defeats TM head on and TM small brawl. Not even the Good endings in TM Head on can save that game.
This story makes no sense whatsoever. SingleTrac didn’t own anything in relation to Twisted Metal by any means outside of the code when they split. So even if a conversation did take place, it’s preposterous to think Sony/989 wouldn’t have pointed that out. But besides that, Jaffe had no involvement with SingleTrac when they split. But Scott Campbell did. And with that source code, they made their own original game Rogue Trip: Vacation 2012. So they’ve moved on from Twisted Metal. David Jaffe actually worked for Sony still and was supposed to be the lead for Twisted Metal III before they decided to go a different direction (including saying he was at the meeting when they named the studio 989 because of the building address they were at). So is it possible the 989 team were told not to use the previous characters for Twisted Metal III? Not even close. For Twisted Metal 4, it’s possible that because of the negativity that Twisted Metal III got from fans, Jaffe, Campbell, etc, that they requested things change. But demand or have any kind of leverage at all? They had zero. Let’s also factor in that Jaffe and Campbell were busy creating Incog in ‘99 when Twisted Metal 4 released. And if you’re the one in charge of making Twisted Metal 4, it’s safe to assume you’d want changes to be made beyond just the gameplay with the characters. And not everyone had Super in their names (I.e. Sweet Tooth, Minion, and Calypso). Maybe Sony knew that Incog was going to be making Black beforehand, which forced the 989 team to be limited?? Who knows because that’s a 2 year gap between Twisted Metal 4 and Black. It just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me.
@@VicariousNickk something I forgot and only remembered after watching Twisted Metal Retrospective Part 1 by another UA-camr that actually interviewed Jaffe, he was working on a game called Dark Guns within Sony’s internal development team until it was canceled. Twisted Metal III and 4 would’ve been around that time too.
I know some people are going to watch this video and immediately jump to the (false) conclusion that I am stating these claims as FACTS and that it's REAL drama that had taken place between Single Track and 989 Studios back during TM3/4's development but that could not be further from the truth or what I stated in the video.
Yes, those comments could be from someone lying about who they are and I was and still am 100% under the impression that could very well be the case. Duh. However, after a bit more research I looked more into that youtube channel from the comments shown and it actually turns out that it belongs to CAVAN BUNTING who also had worked on TM3. Here is their IMBD page: www.imdb.com/name/nm1424475/
That is my mistake, they were NOT Kolbe, but instead Cavan.
Now yes this STILL could be a fake account pretending to be him of course, but it also could be the real person and that's why I just wanted to show you all about these comments and to get YOUR thoughts on them. Not to claim anything is concreate or factual. I thought I made that quite clear in the video but I guess not lol
Remember that at the time Single Trac wanted to buy Twisted Metal from Sony and Kelly Flock the Boss at 989 and Sony America said "F*ck you" because Single Trac was very Hostile about it because they felt they had the winning Hand by owning the game engine for TM2
@@clubcasabe3450Winning hand=Rouge Trip 😎😉
@@clubcasabe3450 yeah and they made Rogue Trip with it, which ended up being a better game in terms of gameplay. But without the internet being as big or easily accessible as it is today, the average consumer wouldn’t have known it was the original team. They’d assume it’s some cheap knock off and pay no mind to it while purchasing Twisted Metal III instead.
One thing I never understood about the video game industry, is how in-house, secretive, and occultic it really seems. While the Indie Dev and obvious internet opens things up in terms of information leaks or just genuine discussion from devs/designers it's still weird to me that game design of all things would operate like Big industries (Music, Pharmacy, Celebrities).
I like how the screenshots also include me making a fool of myself. Great stuff. Lol.
This may just be my opinion but I think there may be some legitmacy to the claim. David Jaffe has admitted to he and SingleTrac butting heads over some of the creative choices in the first two Twisted Metal games, I believe that they were part of the reason why the video endings were never released (because of the women in bikinis in the endings). It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that someone from there, did say something. We also know David Jaffe can be protective over some of his creations. Again, just speculation but it may line up here
Seems a little odd. Cause they didn’t make Super Minion or Super Sweettooth
This sounds sus, especially the "off to make a new game" *Leaves chat* part.
I remember stumbling upon a Facebook page called "Crash Bandicoot the Untold Story" which was supposed to be one of the original devs that didn't get the credit they deserved from the rest of the Naughty Dog team. I don't really remember the specifics, but eventually the page just petered out and nothing seemed to come of it.
I just double checked and some folks are calling this Dave Siller guy a known fraud. Unless this chatter can back hims claims up with receipts or an old build or something, I'd just write him off as a shit-stirrer.
He def could be! That's why I wanted to show the screenshots and not to say these are facts or even proven to be legit. Just interesting is all
One thing I don't understand is, as far as I'm aware, Sony owned the Twisted Metal characters, not Singletrac. How could Singletrac limit what characters could or couldn't be used if they didn't own the characters?
Exactly my question during the stream but sadly never got a response
Yeah, this. Not sure how we could have been limited when we owned the characters. I don't remember why we did/didn't use certain characters, but I think a lot of it was that new artists wanted to create new characters and flex their creative muscles while keeping some amount of the original characters to still keep it in the Twisted Metal realm. For what it's worth, both Kolbe and Cavan were APs on the project, so I could see that getting jumbled up :) But, yeah, that picture on the UA-cam account and the Roadkill reference is 100% Cavan for sure.
Merch store?! YAY! Everybody buy stuff before Nick gets omega famous. "i was a fan BEFORE Nick got famous!" Congrats on the merch store, can't wait to check it out. It would make sense (considering the emphasis on new characters in TM4) buuuut that's curious if true. I wonder if it was a legal document, or if it was a " plz don't use our OC's go make yer own. "
Knowing whiny David Jeffe, probably the ladder. Dude would whine about winning an award
@@Giantsfanlewis Haha
Ths definitely was interesting during stream, I'm so 50/50 on if this is real, but Id love to have more info on 3 and 4 either way!
You know, this might have something to do with why characters like Grimm and Warthog got renamed to Captain Grimm and General Warthog in TM4 too
The plot thiccens
If it helps, i dont care about midroll ads, cuz i have premium (i watch a LOT of yt)
Do you ship to Brazil? I want that Bald Tooth black/red cap!
I have Yt premium, but you are a kind person!
If you go to the merch store I'm the description, put an item in your cart and add your shipping info. Streamlabs handles the shipping so I am not sure if they include international or not. I do know they ship to Canada so it's possible they ship to Brazil!
@@VicariousNickk Thank you
Aside from the grain of salt you have to take this with without confirmation it IS him, I have one question: Why would they not be allowed to use the characters?
If Sony retained the Twisted Metal IP and SingleTrac left their partnership with Sony, wouldn't that mean they no longer had any jurisdiction over the franchise? If I recall correctly the original creator of Lara Croft, Toby Gard, left Core Design after Tomb Raider 1 because he had no say over Eidos' marketing team oversexualizing his character (despite making her with giant breasts). Could SingleTrac have retained the rights to any of these characters? If they did I imagine they'd have maybe used them in Rogue Trip.
I'm not even remotely a legal expert so obviously I'm talking out of my ass, but I just don't know why Sony would care in this scenario or how that would have been enforceable.
No idea! The mystery continues to grow
Bear in mind that Lara's Big Breasts were a mistake.... Toby wanted it changed but the rest of the team said keep em big
@@wallaceshawn-zk8iw I always wondered about the mistake angle because of the fact his concept art of Lara always seemed to have some titanic titties. Maybe he didn't intend it for the final release like you said
hmm Juicy indeed But For all silly comments out the way I like the video you just made But I had a question for the merch Does this allow in to my country? Since I don't live in US
Honestly not sure, it will tell you once you get to the checkout screen and put your address in if it cannot ship to your area!
The best thing they can do if they dont give us a brand new well done AAA game is offer up a twisted remake collection
Without even watching this video or hearing about said possible drama I already know where this is gonna go jaffe feeling on the outs of his prodigal “video game child” first it was TM that got ripped from him. Than gow
So I was a little close I’d def assume it was Sony/jaffe that kinda caused the possible problems during development if true but it almost lines up with how his content comes out nowadays so I really wouldn’t be surprised I love jaffe he made two of my favorite series of all time (I legit got the blades of chaos on me) but I’m not blinded by my like for him to put it past him I’ve talked with him through a few tweets before he’s interesting and (pretty down to earth) considering my conversation with him was about what character I should play on TM 4 😂 but I’ve def seen his negative side as well but I honestly can’t fully blame him for it either I’d feel a certain way about the product I created as well
No characters but yes vehicles
It's kind of sad because I love Twisted Metal 4. I am biased because I grew up with it, but I don't understand the hatred it gets. But I haven't played 1 or 2.
One of the criticisms I've seen some people spit out is that they don't like the more car like physics 3 and 4 has over 1 and 2.
.....They hate a car game where the cars play like cars??
The ads don't affect me, I watch a lot of UA-cam and it makes sense to get UA-cam Premium.
this is very interesting stuff, but why is the video exported in 60fps? Only TM Black runs at 60fps, so in other games it's just going to balloon the filesize and chug slower computers. (I had to watch it at 480p... lol)
60 FPS looks better in most cases and since I emulate the games running at 60 FPS it makes sense. Plus that's why there are the options for different video quality so people with slower internet (such as yourself) can watch just as someone who has higher internet can enjoy it at higher quality :)
I realize it doesn't fit everyone's lifestyle; UA-cam Premium is essential for me and it has "paid for itself" over multiple times. Yearly payments instead of monthly saves a noticeable amount as well. Still, thank you for removing mid-roll ads.
only i noticed not used characters (person) like Outlaw Jamie become blonde not look like in tm 2 and Mike & Stu replaced whit granny maybe it mean not use specific character like them?
I think Sonic owns the franchise but the character's names are property of whoever legally registered the characters as theirs. This is why in TM4 we have cap green, super Thumper, Super slam and some Original characters, but most of the original characters were gone. I think that hurt the game even more. I don't care what he says about sales, TM3 sold because of TM2 not because it was a good game. Sure, TM3 is fun to play, but as a whole this game fails miserably. Horrible maps, horrible endings, terrible bosses, terrible car design, and terrible characters. TM3 actually killed the franchise. Again TM3 is my favorite TM, but lets be honest 65% of the game is terrible. it is crazy because TM3 actually defeats TM head on and TM small brawl. Not even the Good endings in TM Head on can save that game.
This story makes no sense whatsoever. SingleTrac didn’t own anything in relation to Twisted Metal by any means outside of the code when they split. So even if a conversation did take place, it’s preposterous to think Sony/989 wouldn’t have pointed that out.
But besides that, Jaffe had no involvement with SingleTrac when they split. But Scott Campbell did. And with that source code, they made their own original game Rogue Trip: Vacation 2012. So they’ve moved on from Twisted Metal. David Jaffe actually worked for Sony still and was supposed to be the lead for Twisted Metal III before they decided to go a different direction (including saying he was at the meeting when they named the studio 989 because of the building address they were at). So is it possible the 989 team were told not to use the previous characters for Twisted Metal III? Not even close.
For Twisted Metal 4, it’s possible that because of the negativity that Twisted Metal III got from fans, Jaffe, Campbell, etc, that they requested things change. But demand or have any kind of leverage at all? They had zero. Let’s also factor in that Jaffe and Campbell were busy creating Incog in ‘99 when Twisted Metal 4 released. And if you’re the one in charge of making Twisted Metal 4, it’s safe to assume you’d want changes to be made beyond just the gameplay with the characters. And not everyone had Super in their names (I.e. Sweet Tooth, Minion, and Calypso). Maybe Sony knew that Incog was going to be making Black beforehand, which forced the 989 team to be limited?? Who knows because that’s a 2 year gap between Twisted Metal 4 and Black. It just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me.
Without any proof we will never know. But I agree with your statements
@@VicariousNickk something I forgot and only remembered after watching Twisted Metal Retrospective Part 1 by another UA-camr that actually interviewed Jaffe, he was working on a game called Dark Guns within Sony’s internal development team until it was canceled. Twisted Metal III and 4 would’ve been around that time too.
Jaffe is kinda a dick so i can see him saying that. Hes ok and everything but yeah he kinda on the mean side sometimes