I'm just shy of 61 and already use the Wild Edge Inc steps since 2020. I modified my steps with 1/4" am steel rope to get rid of the original rope bulk. I really like your modified Cain method. The climbing keeps us older guys fit.
Really appreciate the tip. I'm using the Wild Edge steps for the first time this year. Since I have some mobility issues I thought about doing something very similar with the tether and an aider. Only difference is I'll have an aider where you are using the tree. After seeing this though I'm going to try your method first. -signed Old Arthritic Fat Guy
I was looking for a way to reduce weight in my system, Not only are you able to loose the linemans belt but 3 feet between each step works well for me. Thanks for sharing...very cool!
Hey, Don. I'm 65, 6', 245#, and past my prime. This work fantastically. Practice with your Stepps (correct tensioning and placement above the rope) and they will cam correctly every time. Faster, safer, easier, and lighter than any sticks. I like to SRT, but if there's no good branch to throw over, this is the bomb diggity. Hunt safely, my Friend!
Points about the style of climbing in this video which is all good... 1) It puts relatively more load on your arms than on your legs. If you have normal physiology, this is inefficient. Just as we walk on our legs and not our hands. But as an older, guy, for now, my knees are more of a problem than my upper body. At least we have choices, vertical like a ladder, or this method. This approach is seen in some waterfall ice maneuvers and in Tony Yaniro's Leavitation. Climbing methods that rely on widely spaced holds, as here. 2) This method puts a lot more load on the anchors. Which is totally fine if they are bomber. But if someone adapted this spacing to eye bolts, weaker steps, or trees, it would be good to be aware. At the point where your feet reach the upper step the loads would approach the infinite. Obviously nobody could pull that off, but good to know that the higher the load on the upper anchor. The steps obviously deal with these loads, but it seems unlikely they were designed for them. 3) If any upper gear failure does occur, the climber will launch out in horizontal back down mode to an uncomfortable back down landing. Not knocking the process, but this stuff is second nature to climbers, and may not be to everyone else.
Good video and in relation to the ‘extra step’ above hunting height - carry a small piece of oval shaped ply cut to size and slip it in to the step to make a seat and you can then sit down facing the tree if you want to take all weight off legs knees and saddle - stand up and move into position to shoot. Position it anywhere on the tree to keep in the shade or suit your strong side. Don’t need knee pads anymore either. You can add padding to the ply if want to make it more comfy.
I'm 54 but my Kestrel Flex almost doesn't fit me cuz I'm too limber with a high threshold & can pull a muscle, but I don't feel it until the next day. I use DRT but also own WEI Stepps which I use 2 normally 4 my foot rests. This is a good method if I could only climb a certain height with DRT in a busy 🌳 but still wanted 2 remain connected but also get higher in the 🌳. With bow hunting it is of the utmost importance 2 put yourself in the perfect tree & i will do whatever it takes 2 accomplish that.Thanks 4 the alternative method.
You mentioned you added a D-ring to your belt. Do you have any more info on this like brand, model, or a website link? I have been searching for one online that looks similar to the brief visual in the video. Thanks
Why do you use the coupler on your tether? I have a sterling oplux with sewn eye was thinking to just use that but saw your video and maybe I need to use the coupler?? Really like your method!!!
As high as you can comfortably cam it. I like the lower (middle?) step slightly higher than my navel. I carabine my tether to the top Stepp like Chris. Don't have to worry about branches or sliding your tether up and down the trunk. This works slicker than lefty democrats stayin' out of prison! Hunt safely, my Friends!
So I tried your message when I get to my third step it seems to pop up when I put myself in with a D Loop on my waist. If I go any higher, I can’t reach it from my second step. Any suggestions?
@@garypayne2235 I just feel a little more secure girth hitching around the tree. I don't think that that the bar on a WE Stepp would ever break but if it did, I don't want that to be the only thing supporting me. I carry 7 steps which leaves one at waist height when I'm at hunting height. I'm 6 feet tall and get about 3.5 feet per step using this method so my feet are at 21-22 ft at height.
Great video. I tried this out yesterday and found that my tether was too short. As I await all of my gear orders I'm using what I have available to get some practice. What length is your tether? I want to make sure that I have the correct gear. Also what are you using as your platform?
Thanks Luke, I use a 7-8 foot tether. For a platform once in the tree I'm using either a Tethrd Predator or just tying on two Wild Edge Stepps at height (depends how far I'm hiking as to whether I want to pack in the predator or just an extra stepp.
@@joewallingboynebowhunter9982 I tried this technique and although all of my gear isnt in yet I tried my best with what I had. I really struggled with spacing. When I would get on the 1st step and clip in with my carabiner on my waste it was always on the wrong angle and would try to uncam the step.
@@lukedautel2127 The height of the first step is critical. If it is too high then the spacing to the second step is too short and your belt is above the cross bar so your carabiner pulls up on it instead of down on it. Try setting the very first step a little lower.
Wouldn't your shortened bridge work just as well as the extra "D" ring on your Kestrel belt? and why not just hook your quick link onto the higher Stepp, instead of moving your tether up and down? This is absolutely fantastic for old pharts like me (65 years young, 6', 245 pounds). Chris' just carabining to the step is even easier than moving your tether up the tree. Super! Thank you, Joe. Hunt safely, my Friends!
It might, I haven't tried that. But I like the stability that having the D'ring attached directly to my center mass gives me. Attaching it the bridge could give you some additional lateral movement possibly.
I undid the stitched fold over on the left side (fixed end) of the belt. I could then unthread the belt through the buckles and install the D ring. I rerouted the belt and refolded and restitched the end.
@@joewallingboynebowhunter9982 Wow, didn't think u would ever tinker with factory made but I guess u improved factory made. I watched a short video today sent to my 📱 about someone demonstrating how they went about putting 2 non adjustable bridges on their saddle. By the way, welcome to the Kestrel flex nation 🤩
Nope, I still use the WE stepps on a few really leaning trees or down in the cedars where there's enough branches to make one sticking tedious but one sticking is where its at for me now a days.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Ropeman is an ascender device and not a fall arrest device. Probably fine when your going up the tree because you're working above your heas. But coming down if you slip and all your weight lands in your saddle the ropeman could easily cut the tether and and fail.
@@jhuntley575 actually independent testing showed the ropeman 1 did in fact shred a tether rope at just 4KN. about 900lbs. seems like a lot but the typical carabiner we use is 22KN. ropeman is great for ascending but 900lbs can quickly be reached if the deadfall is more than a few feet on a 200lb+ person.
@@jhuntley575 - How Much is Too Much? OSHA specifies a maximum fall distance of 6 feet regardless of the fall factor. Although they don't specify the maximum fall factor, they do specify that the maximum force must not exceed 4 kN (900 pounds) when using a body belt and 8 kN (1800 pounds) with a body harness. The following data were generated using this calculator and assume that the rope has 10% elongation. (Note that this calculator makes assumptions that we haven't validated.) A 165 pound (75 kg) rescuer who experiences a 0.25 fall factor (e.g., falling 2 feet on 8 feet of rope) will generate ~4 kN of force (the maximum for a body belt). A 165 pound (75 kg) rescuer who experiences a 2.0 fall factor (e.g., falling 6 feet on 3 feet of rope) would generate ~6 kN. A 225 pound (100 kg) rescuer who experiences a 0.25 fall factor (e.g., falling 2 feet on 8 feet of rope) will generate ~4 kN of force (the maximum for a body belt). A 225 pound (100 kg) rescuer who experiences a 1.5 fall factor (e.g., falling 6 feet on 4 feet of rope) would generate ~8 kN.
@@billfresh3776 just saying the way this guy is climbing if I had to bet my life on it I would say he is going to survive. I've been hunting in a saddle for many years and I'm also a rope climber and I wont use any device like this bc of everything you are stating here. I agree with you, your right. Shouldn't have said anything
I would really like to have seen you place those wild edge steps over your head! I find them difficult enough to properly set up at waist level, let alone at a level that I can barely reach! Your method of climbing works well once the steps are in place, but getting them in place.........that is the deal breaker for me with your method?
I have. I really like the knaider but I personally am uncomfortable on the longer aiders like the swaider. Just using the Knaider doesn't get my any greater spacing than I get with the Cain method and I find the Cain method a little less strenuous plus I don't need the lineman's belt using it.
Thanks Joe. I may try that on my Mantis. I’ve got a rescue bet already from the fire service that’s already got the attachment point. Not sure how the belt will work with the Mantis tho.
Danger, Danger! That does not appear to be a "gate locked" biner. It appears to be an ultralite wire gate biner. These are fall rated, in the 0 - 180 degree in line direction, but not strong if loaded on the 90 - 280 direction, and the gate is not of a locking type. Generally, I would not use a locking biner, pretty much anywhere in these tree climbing scenarios. But that is based on 50 years of climbing experience where I know how the gear works, and don't impose loads that could cause a gate to twist open. Using a gated biner, at least a speed gate (as opposed to the ones that have a lot of fine threads) could certainly be justified as safer, if one was not bothered by the fiddle factor. The mid choice would be a regular weight solid gate biner. When racking dozens of pieces of protection, lite biners reduce the load. When you have one biner, I would go for the most solid design possible. All the biners are designed to take much higher loads than tree climbing or falling in trees, would ever generate, but gate design and cross loading are factors, no mater what. Considering the design of that wire gate, and the fact some guys with bigger guts may not even clearly see it I would not use a biner of that type.
I have giving up using WE steps. They are ok by themselves, but when modifying with this or other methods such as knaider/swaider, it becomes very dangerous. Trust me, I almost died when one on the steps kicked out. If you are going to use steps, do yourself a favor and just carry more steps to get to the height your comfortable with. Any modification on an already unsteady system will just amplify your risks.
I'm just shy of 61 and already use the Wild Edge Inc steps since 2020. I modified my steps with 1/4" am steel rope to get rid of the original rope bulk. I really like your modified Cain method. The climbing keeps us older guys fit.
Thank you! I'm 77 years old and fairly athletic. This certainly takes the strain off my climbing ..
I'm an older guy like you and THIS IS AWESOME !!! Thanks for showing and kudo's to Chris Cain!
Awesome video, and thanks for posting. I really like this method
Great video. I’m using an aider for my climbing method but i’ll use this method if I ever drop it by accident. Always good to have a back up plan.
Really appreciate the tip. I'm using the Wild Edge steps for the first time this year. Since I have some mobility issues I thought about doing something very similar with the tether and an aider. Only difference is I'll have an aider where you are using the tree. After seeing this though I'm going to try your method first. -signed Old Arthritic Fat Guy
Wow! I like this Cain Method. I go try it out after work. Thank you for the video
I was looking for a way to reduce weight in my system, Not only are you able to loose the linemans belt but 3 feet between each step works well for me. Thanks for sharing...very cool!
Another old guy just bought WE Stepps was ready to send back but this looks like solution. Thanks well done. Kudos to Mr Cain
Hey, Don. I'm 65, 6', 245#, and past my prime. This work fantastically. Practice with your Stepps (correct tensioning and placement above the rope) and they will cam correctly every time. Faster, safer, easier, and lighter than any sticks. I like to SRT, but if there's no good branch to throw over, this is the bomb diggity. Hunt safely, my Friend!
Food for thought for sure , thanks
Points about the style of climbing in this video which is all good...
1) It puts relatively more load on your arms than on your legs. If you have normal physiology, this is inefficient. Just as we walk on our legs and not our hands. But as an older, guy, for now, my knees are more of a problem than my upper body. At least we have choices, vertical like a ladder, or this method. This approach is seen in some waterfall ice maneuvers and in Tony Yaniro's Leavitation. Climbing methods that rely on widely spaced holds, as here.
2) This method puts a lot more load on the anchors. Which is totally fine if they are bomber. But if someone adapted this spacing to eye bolts, weaker steps, or trees, it would be good to be aware. At the point where your feet reach the upper step the loads would approach the infinite. Obviously nobody could pull that off, but good to know that the higher the load on the upper anchor. The steps obviously deal with these loads, but it seems unlikely they were designed for them.
3) If any upper gear failure does occur, the climber will launch out in horizontal back down mode to an uncomfortable back down landing.
Not knocking the process, but this stuff is second nature to climbers, and may not be to everyone else.
Good adaptation! The dog found you a stick! 😁 When I could first hear the dog I thought it was a deer coming 🦌 😂
Good video and in relation to the ‘extra step’ above hunting height - carry a small piece of oval shaped ply cut to size and slip it in to the step to make a seat and you can then sit down facing the tree if you want to take all weight off legs knees and saddle - stand up and move into position to shoot. Position it anywhere on the tree to keep in the shade or suit your strong side. Don’t need knee pads anymore either. You can add padding to the ply if want to make it more comfy.
I'm 54 but my Kestrel Flex almost doesn't fit me cuz I'm too limber with a high threshold & can pull a muscle, but I don't feel it until the next day. I use DRT but also own WEI Stepps which I use 2 normally 4 my foot rests. This is a good method if I could only climb a certain height with DRT in a busy 🌳 but still wanted 2 remain connected but also get higher in the 🌳. With bow hunting it is of the utmost importance 2 put yourself in the perfect tree & i will do whatever it takes 2 accomplish that.Thanks 4 the alternative method.
Its hard to beat drt with a foot loop assist
This is much safer than the lineman belt method, which would just keep one against the tree during the fall.
You mentioned you added a D-ring to your belt. Do you have any more info on this like brand, model, or a website link? I have been searching for one online that looks similar to the brief visual in the video. Thanks
Does the d ring need to be fixed on your belt? Have a new trophyline saddle and was thinking of trying this climbing method.
Why do you use the coupler on your tether? I have a sterling oplux with sewn eye was thinking to just use that but saw your video and maybe I need to use the coupler?? Really like your method!!!
I might give this a try. I hate lineman belts.
Great tip! Can you be more specific about how to figure the height of the 1st step? It would also be mice to see how you transition to the platform.
As high as you can comfortably cam it. I like the lower (middle?) step slightly higher than my navel. I carabine my tether to the top Stepp like Chris. Don't have to worry about branches or sliding your tether up and down the trunk. This works slicker than lefty democrats stayin' out of prison! Hunt safely, my Friends!
Can you get the same height doing this than using a naider/swaider?
So I tried your message when I get to my third step it seems to pop up when I put myself in with a D Loop on my waist. If I go any higher, I can’t reach it from my second step. Any suggestions?
Looks like a great method. Am I correct in assuming that you need one extra step, that will be above you while at hunting height?
Yep, I have an extra step at waist height once I'm set up.
You girth Hitch yours. Chris ties right in to the step. Is this just based upon comfort for you? How many steps do use and how high do you get?
@@garypayne2235
I just feel a little more secure girth hitching around the tree. I don't think that that the bar on a WE Stepp would ever break but if it did, I don't want that to be the only thing supporting me. I carry 7 steps which leaves one at waist height when I'm at hunting height. I'm 6 feet tall and get about 3.5 feet per step using this method so my feet are at 21-22 ft at height.
Can you recommend a D ring? Thank you👍🏻
Great video. I tried this out yesterday and found that my tether was too short. As I await all of my gear orders I'm using what I have available to get some practice. What length is your tether? I want to make sure that I have the correct gear. Also what are you using as your platform?
Thanks Luke,
I use a 7-8 foot tether. For a platform once in the tree I'm using either a Tethrd Predator or just tying on two Wild Edge Stepps at height (depends how far I'm hiking as to whether I want to pack in the predator or just an extra stepp.
@@joewallingboynebowhunter9982 I tried this technique and although all of my gear isnt in yet I tried my best with what I had. I really struggled with spacing. When I would get on the 1st step and clip in with my carabiner on my waste it was always on the wrong angle and would try to uncam the step.
@@lukedautel2127 The height of the first step is critical. If it is too high then the spacing to the second step is too short and your belt is above the cross bar so your carabiner pulls up on it instead of down on it. Try setting the very first step a little lower.
Where did you get that D-Ring? Thanks
I like this but I'm leaning toward one stick and my kite saddle
Wouldn't your shortened bridge work just as well as the extra "D" ring on your Kestrel belt? and why not just hook your quick link onto the higher Stepp, instead of moving your tether up and down? This is absolutely fantastic for old pharts like me (65 years young, 6', 245 pounds). Chris' just carabining to the step is even easier than moving your tether up the tree. Super! Thank you, Joe. Hunt safely, my Friends!
It might, I haven't tried that. But I like the stability that having the D'ring attached directly to my center mass gives me. Attaching it the bridge could give you some additional lateral movement possibly.
Joe, can you explain how you put the
D-ring on your kestrel strap ?
I undid the stitched fold over on the left side (fixed end) of the belt. I could then unthread the belt through the buckles and install the D ring. I rerouted the belt and refolded and restitched the end.
@@joewallingboynebowhunter9982 Wow, didn't think u would ever tinker with factory made but I guess u improved factory made. I watched a short video today sent to my 📱 about someone demonstrating how they went about putting 2 non adjustable bridges on their saddle. By the way, welcome to the Kestrel flex nation 🤩
Where did you purchase your D ring to add to your belt?
i just purchased one from a company out of the uk called esty 7.42 +shipping it's a parachute v ring rated at 2500# load bearing
Hi Joe, Do you prefer the WE steps over one sticking?
Nope, I still use the WE stepps on a few really leaning trees or down in the cedars where there's enough branches to make one sticking tedious but one sticking is where its at for me now a days.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Ropeman is an ascender device and not a fall arrest device. Probably fine when your going up the tree because you're working above your heas. But coming down if you slip and all your weight lands in your saddle the ropeman could easily cut the tether and and fail.
Easily cut a tether I doubt that. Use a prusik if you want tho
@@jhuntley575 actually independent testing showed the ropeman 1 did in fact shred a tether rope at just 4KN. about 900lbs. seems like a lot but the typical carabiner we use is 22KN. ropeman is great for ascending but 900lbs can quickly be reached if the deadfall is more than a few feet on a 200lb+ person.
@@billfresh3776 900 lbs is not so easily achievable however I would not trust my life to that peice of garbage ropemen.
@@jhuntley575 - How Much is Too Much?
OSHA specifies a maximum fall distance of 6 feet regardless of the fall factor. Although they don't specify the maximum fall factor, they do specify that the maximum force must not exceed 4 kN (900 pounds) when using a body belt and 8 kN (1800 pounds) with a body harness.
The following data were generated using this calculator and assume that the rope has 10% elongation. (Note that this calculator makes assumptions that we haven't validated.)
A 165 pound (75 kg) rescuer who experiences a 0.25 fall factor (e.g., falling 2 feet on 8 feet of rope) will generate ~4 kN of force (the maximum for a body belt).
A 165 pound (75 kg) rescuer who experiences a 2.0 fall factor (e.g., falling 6 feet on 3 feet of rope) would generate ~6 kN.
A 225 pound (100 kg) rescuer who experiences a 0.25 fall factor (e.g., falling 2 feet on 8 feet of rope) will generate ~4 kN of force (the maximum for a body belt).
A 225 pound (100 kg) rescuer who experiences a 1.5 fall factor (e.g., falling 6 feet on 4 feet of rope) would generate ~8 kN.
@@billfresh3776 just saying the way this guy is climbing if I had to bet my life on it I would say he is going to survive. I've been hunting in a saddle for many years and I'm also a rope climber and I wont use any device like this bc of everything you are stating here. I agree with you, your right. Shouldn't have said anything
Thanks good video....may have to try this...dog is waiting!!!🤔🤔😂😂
I would really like to have seen you place those wild edge steps over your head! I find them difficult enough to properly set up at waist level, let alone at a level that I can barely reach! Your method of climbing works well once the steps are in place, but getting them in place.........that is the deal breaker for me with your method?
Not hard after you practice.
Do you like the Nader swader style better than this or vice versa
I haven't used the knaider/swaider much. This is still my go to method when I use WE stepps.
Have you tried a Knaider/Swaider in comparison to this method?
I have. I really like the knaider but I personally am uncomfortable on the longer aiders like the swaider. Just using the Knaider doesn't get my any greater spacing than I get with the Cain method and I find the Cain method a little less strenuous plus I don't need the lineman's belt using it.
Thanks Joe. I may try that on my Mantis. I’ve got a rescue bet already from the fire service that’s already got the attachment point. Not sure how the belt will work with the Mantis tho.
I'm confused.... you're climbing higher than the amount of rope you are carrying. What if something happened and you had to get down with an injury?
I'm carrying 40 ft of rappel rope. I swap over to it to rappel down. I can make the swap while free hanging in the tree if I have to.
Danger, Danger! That does not appear to be a "gate locked" biner. It appears to be an ultralite wire gate biner. These are fall rated, in the 0 - 180 degree in line direction, but not strong if loaded on the 90 - 280 direction, and the gate is not of a locking type.
Generally, I would not use a locking biner, pretty much anywhere in these tree climbing scenarios. But that is based on 50 years of climbing experience where I know how the gear works, and don't impose loads that could cause a gate to twist open. Using a gated biner, at least a speed gate (as opposed to the ones that have a lot of fine threads) could certainly be justified as safer, if one was not bothered by the fiddle factor. The mid choice would be a regular weight solid gate biner. When racking dozens of pieces of protection, lite biners reduce the load. When you have one biner, I would go for the most solid design possible. All the biners are designed to take much higher loads than tree climbing or falling in trees, would ever generate, but gate design and cross loading are factors, no mater what. Considering the design of that wire gate, and the fact some guys with bigger guts may not even clearly see it I would not use a biner of that type.
I have giving up using WE steps. They are ok by themselves, but when modifying with this or other methods such as knaider/swaider, it becomes very dangerous. Trust me, I almost died when one on the steps kicked out. If you are going to use steps, do yourself a favor and just carry more steps to get to the height your comfortable with. Any modification on an already unsteady system will just amplify your risks.
I find them pretty shaky as well. Maybe its the trees around here but they tend to shift on me some.
Good ideai butt too much and too much movements