I’ve been daily driving a B58 for more than 5 years now. Not a single issue with the engine! I didn’t know how reliable it is when I bought the car, but now I feel like a winner. It’s a great engine!
I’ve had my 440i for 5 months and it’s been flawless. I bought it with 100k miles and the car is perfect compared to my horrible 60k mile N55 E92 I sold last year. I’ve driven a lot of cars and it’s one of the most well rounded. Best car I’ve owned by far fulfills everything.
@@Berkut1986 N54 are not worth it considering B58 cars are getting under 20k. My 440i was one of the cheapest ever in the country and still will cost less than any N54 overall within a year or two of maintenance.
@@spidamit5278 my cars stock because i've enjoyed it so much more than my FBO and flashed 335i. there's a 340i somewhere on youtube that's been documented almost to 200k miles. there's no known fatal or necessary preventative maintenance on stock cars other than regular things like worn suspension or swapping plugs/injectors you should be fine.
The b58 is not a collaboration project. The motor was developed internally as the N55 successor and when Toyota shopped it they simply checked BMW’s work and had a few tweaks made to meet their standards. Toyota had zero input on the engineering process. You also need to check your math since the a80 Supra and 2JZ are over 30 years old, not 20 years old as stated. I will say as I owned a B8.5 Audi S4 prior to my 340i, I do agree the ZF is as good if not better than a DCT. My S4 was an 034 Motorsport tuned 7 speed DCT and I hated it after awhile. It was terrible to drive at low speeds and actually was a weak point on the drivetrain. Luckily mine never gave up but it constantly was displaying weird behavior and I felt like it was definitely degenerating. So I traded it (it did have over 100k of hard miles so I can’t complain) for the 340i. The ZF on the otherhand has the same aggressive character when tuned, but acts like your mom’s accord when you’re not in the mood to be rowdy. It’s actually 👌🏻. The timing chain issue isn’t an issue. There are folks putting well into the 200k on these motors (even in a highly tuned state) and there hasn’t been a widely known timing failure. The injectors are the only major failure point I can find and as stated in the video is a bit of Russian roulette. Ultimately every motor seems to have a few paths to total destruction and given the low rate of injector failures I think the b58 has a fair claim to being one of the least worrisome motors to own.
Toyota and bmw partnered in 2012. The b58 came out in 2015. Toyota didn’t “shop” for the b58 like you were at a grocery store and it just happed to be on shelf. They were well aware of the b58’s development from the start and provided input along the way
@@STICKSHFT You’re wrong, at least according to the chief engine of the Supra. They co-developed the Z4/Supra platform. The engine was already developed and merely revised by Toyota. The B series was in development and reported on by Car and Driver in April of 2011, a full two years before the Supra began development (according to the guy who is chief engineer, Tetsuya Tada). By the time Toyota approached BMW the B series was already on the road in prototypes. BMW design, Toyota approved.
@@thomasburns3345 it’s important to note that there are 5 different versions of the b58. Toyota may not have developed the original design but they did in fact help in the multiple revisions
@@thomasburns3345 to be clear im a huge bmw fan boy. I’ve owned 3 e30’s and currently have an f80 m3 comp and an f87 m2 comp.I haven’t made the leap to a b58 though because my s55 cars are not stock and I’ll likely end up with trading one of them to an s58 car in the near future. As a longtime bmw fanboy that has had experience in BMW’s across many generations I can honestly say bmw has improved immensely since they collaborated with Toyota. N54, n55,s55 are all great motors but they all had significant problems. Since Toyota has had a hand in helping bmw refine their newest inline 6 its taken bmw to new heights in performance and more importantly reliability
I owned a b8 s4 for about 40k miles since new. I had apr stage 2+ with ultra charger, all the 034 suspension parts, drivetrain mods, Apr dct tune. It is hands down much more responsive than the bmw zf I have on my bmw x5 m50 and m850. The bmws rpm limiter shows the downshift right away but in reality it takes awhile longer. Audi dct isn’t perfect but the downshifts are much more responsive and visceral compared to bmw zf
That’s how I have my 440 setup. 500 + whp daily driver. I haven’t had so much as a hiccup in six years. Completely reliable and it moves a little bit! I’m flirting with turning it up, but I don’t want any issues. I also don’t want to spend another $20,000 for 200 hp and a half second in the 1/4. I’m good with the 500
@@litspeed7940 this where I plan to call it with mine too. In a year it’s been amazing for me so far on a stage 1 file for 93. I just went full stage 2+ on 93 and have the MHD Flexfuel controller on my garage bench waiting on me. I figure the 440rwhp or so I’m seeing with the 93 file is plenty but it’ll be cool to have the capability to dump some E in the tank when I have access (poor availability here for me). I don’t want to push it any farther than 500rwhp though since much that seems to be about when both the trans and the pistons start to get a bit less rock solid. I plan to drive this car another 100k like this if she’ll let me (60k now). Maybe more if she’s still healthy!
@@IzzyE9X Agreed 100%. I have a custom e85 map but haven’t put it on a dyno. My ass dyno says it’s much faster., and that brutal nasty ass fuel smell is gone! The thing I like about it most is the Jekyll & Hyde modes. Push a couple of buttons and you can drive a sleeping baby around Then with another couple of pushes youre sideways waking up county’s 😂😂
What have you done to get it to 500whp? Im currently mhd stage 2 with a catless dp and I probably sit close to 400whp or perhaps a bit less. Wondering what else I could do for 500whp. Probably tu hpfp and e30
Yeah. Thanks to its diesel cousin. B48/58 use simillar block design with b47/57 diesel. This diesel use closed deck design. Making it very strong base to begin. With forge crankshaft also make much stronger bottom end
Love mine! Making around 600whp now and ready for a transmission upgrade to get even more out of it! The fueling and transmission after 550whp are the only obstacles coming making tons of reliable power!
I have 440i with mppsk it was my dream car and I was not wrong. I like it more than m4 because of the reliability and I wanted daily driver. So far no issues I’m very happy with it.
2021 M340 owner here..best car I’ve owned! It’s a performance beast when needed, yet delivers fantastic fuel economy when driven fairly responsibly. 26 mph average, which includes half eco mode and half sport mode. This car can achieve about 40 mpg on long, highway trips (flatish highways!).
@Fundaddy5000 A B48 can achieve 40, but most, if not all vehicles with B58s, including the Supra with reach 35 mpg or so. And that's probably the lightest B58-equipped vehicle out there.
@@davepaturno4290 go buy one and try for yourself. I could send you the video of it, but I don’t know you and don’t care that much about trying to help you understand something.
@@Fundaddy5000 I have a 2024 45th Anniv with 3500 miles in it. There's no way it would get me 40+ MPG on the highway. Owners in a local Supra group are averaging about 22-23 in city and highway driving. 2.0 Supras do get better mileage, but they are significantly slower. Maybe I should reduce its weight?
Been driving my e60 528i for the past 11 years. Engine is a tank and currently pushing 286k miles. I’ve been trying to figure out what BMW I wanted to switch to after this and I’m glad to hear the B58 is so solid. 440i is gonna be top of my list but wouldn’t mind a M340i either
I’m not sure what the name of my engine is on my 2021 X6M but it’s a 4.4 L V8 that is an absolute beast! Whether I drive it at low speeds or hit the M1 or M2 buttons and floor it, it never lets me down and is just thrilling to drive. I love it so much that I don’t want to sell it because it’s out of warranty and I’m so scared that I’ll be hit with massive repair or service bills.
Awesome video ❤...x7 here with th b58 and its an awesome engine. No problems to date and its a 2019. Had valve cover gasket replaced under warranty, but that's it. Super happy with it and looking forward to getting my hands on a x3m comp or x5 b58 and tune it.
I bought a G30 530ix 4 months ago with a B48 engine. Maybe US standards are different, but in Europe 2.0 T engines are usually more than enough and so is the B48. The performance delivered by it is simply almost impossible to be fully unleashed in real life traffic, unless you want to seriously break the law. So the power is clearly there, while being really efficient if you want it to be. Only thing it could do better is the low end flexibility / gas pedal reaction, but that's what you get when you have I4 instead of I6. Still, any sort of harder gas pedal press, kickdown, Sport mode or gearbox into S, it drops two gears and then you fly away. So there is a very small lag, but it's not an issue in everyday use. And you can buy it relatively cheap too. The B58 is much, much more expensive to buy and also more expensive to run. You pay a lot for the additional performance that cannot be fully used, unless you drive on the Autobahns without speed limit. Nevertheless, maybe I will try to upgrade to a B58 someday.
I went from N57 on an X5 30d 2015 to a 640iX GT with B58. The difference of mileage between them is not that big if you drive like a normal human being around 2L/100km more on B58. The biggest difference for me is that me is that i do not have to worry anymore of diesel pollution limiting technologies as egr clogging, egr cooler issues, adblue failures...etc. Having 340hp under your foot and getting an average of 10L/100km is a good trade in my opinion.
I dream of this engine, my dream car is a F31 with a B58 6MT swap. But this is insane cost wise. Ive completed this summer a E91 N54 ST 6MT instead, way cheaper, but yeah comes with a lot of maintenance.
i drive 2019 G31 with B58 engine and its been a dream so far 81k km on clock and the only thing i had to deal with so far was top up small amount of coolant like 0,25 l first time at 78k and now at 81k km ill have a closer look in a month when my next oil change comes up probably just sensor or a coolant lid or possibly water pump has minor leak should be few € to spend very little price to pay to have this powerplant under the bonnet innit
I'm curious, does anyone think it is not worth investing in the gen 3 of the b58, hearing due to the emission goals, efficiency improvements are potential root cause problems for longevity as compared to gen 1 and gen 2 b58s, any of your insights here are greatly appreciated 👍
I clicked this video madly because “best” is so subjective and the S58 is superior to the B58 from a reliability/performance/ potential angle. But once you laid out the criteria you are using for “best” and triangulated around price per these things, it made a lot more sense. Thank you- Stage 2+ B58 owner
@@gilsonbarut5016 For Gen 1 B58, stage 1 is software only. Stage 2 requires a downpipe. Stage 2+ means you have upgraded the high pressure fuel pump. Most people (myself included) just install the HPFP off of the Supra, also known as the TU pump, due to their inexpensive price ($425 for mine NIB) and that it is an OEM part. This is required to safely run ethanol mixes, and the TU pump is sufficient for any stock turbo applications. You can add intake/exhaust but neither are required and have been shown to not really provide tangible gains. The fastest cars are usually running the stock air-box, and the addition of an intake for this motor is usually considered to be more for the sound it makes than actually making more power. This is the main reason that the B58 has skyrocketed into popularity… it is a rock solid motor stock and retains massive reliability even when highly tuned from its stock form. Reports from Toyota suggest that when they were testing the motor to see if they wanted to use it in the Supra that they pushed their test motor to 700hp. There have been some B58 cars pushing 800whp without having the block opened up at all (1StockF30 has really pushed things in this regard). With simple piston upgrades people have run 1k or more on the B58. This is where the already legendary status of this motor comes from. For me I have added a $300 down pipe, $425 TU pump, $350 Sutphin trans tune and $400 MHD Stage 2+ tune. I have a $500 MHD flex fuel sensor that once installed will make my vehicle true Flexfuel and I’ll be able to run anything from pump to full E85 and the MHD map will adjust accordingly. I am making about 460whp on a 93 file with e20 mixed in and should make about 500whp give or take a few once I go flexfuel and start targeting e30-e40 range. In a 3600lbs car, that’s very healthy. 500 to the wheel on a RWD car with an auto trans is realistically pushing on upper 500s at the crank. My PB of 60-130 is 9.9, that’s stock Shelby GT350 and stock C8 Vette territory. All for a total of $1475 in mods on a car that cost me $34k. The value is off the charts. And with the e40 tune/flex fuel people are posting high 7s to low 8s in the 60-130. With a full interior, normal street prep. That’s firmly in Hellcat territory. So for under $2k in mods on a car that can be had for mid $20s these days you can elevate to that level easily and reliably. It’s no where near the best engine of all time, which is what prompted my comment. I think currently Porsche has a brilliant claim and the S58 (BMW’s M division has an upgraded version of the B58 called the S58 which is in their M2/M3/M4, etc.) is a monster that deserves a nod for sure. But when adding price into the equation the content creator has a point about the B58. After all, this information very much influenced my decision making and I purchased a vehicle with this motor due to everything I stated above. And I absolutely love it, and couldn’t be more happy with the choice.
@thomasburns3345 Thank you sooooo much! this is by far the best information I have been asking people for what is the best mods to our B58 engine. I have the 2024 Z4 M40i looking forward for upgrading it with the same as what you did to yours 😊
they are great motors.. Whats it make without a turbo I wonder?? And is it in any cars without a turbo? Also how much power do they make before they need to be built??
Its a great engine, except for the plastic tappet cover( which is insane), the oil filter can disintegrate, vanos system malfunctions eventually and finally the plastic flanges fails around 120-150k miles. So oil leaks and water leaks becomes common over 100k miles. Such shame bmw uses plastics on parts with heavy thermal Loads
No, no German product requires that. That's a myth you Americans came up with because you're lazy and wasteful as people and as a culture, and therefore even excellent products break down in your hands. What I mean by that is, you don't BUY luxury cars, you LEASE them, and because you lease them and know it's not really your car and you won't really use it for more than 2-3 years max, you don't take care of it at all, you don't break it in properly, you don't use it properly, you don't maintain it properly, instead you drive it like you stole it and then throw it away. Most people in the US never take their car to the service station at all unless they get free servicing (which is how a lot of Japanese car brands boost their reliability stats, by giving free maintenance during lease periods and having ridiculously short service intervals like 5000 miles or less), which leads to totally unrealistic reliability stats because Japanese cars can't even come close to German cars for reliability and DURABILITY if they're both equally maintained in the long run. Also, people in the US think taking the car for a service at the dealer is a scam by the dealer, and not an actual requirement by the manufacturer FOR A GOOD REASON. So they just don't do it, and then throw the car away after their lease is over, and then someone else buys that used car that wasn't maintained, and then they keep driving it until something eventually breaks down, which wouldn't have broken if the car had been serviced properly to begin with. Then they can't afford to fix it properly, they take it to some uneducated American mechanic who's used to working on simple Japanese engines or truck V8's that has no clue how to work on European cars and doesn't bother learning even the basics like opening a service manual and checking the torque of screws and bolts, and then on top of it the owners buy cheap replacement parts, and then of course this all leads to a mess and a very unreliable car that breaks down all the time. And of course, what do Americans do? They blame the Germans for making a car that's unreliable, instead of blaming themselves for totally mistreating the car from day one. This is not a fantasy, it's a fact, and it's backed up by the breakdown statistics. If you look at how many breakdowns of various types the same cars have in the US and in Europe, per 1000 cars let's say, you'll see that all European cars that are on both markets have far more breakdowns in the US than in Europe. Sometimes 10x more. Same cars. Only the owners are different. So who is to blame? If the same cars easily do 300-400k km in Europe and it's kinda hard to even find used ones with less on the clock, but the same cars in the US start to fall apart before 100k, who is to blame? Maintain the car as the manufacturer recommends. If you don't do that, it's your fault. European cars are complex, they require meticulous maintenance, that's just what's required for achieving such levels of performance, efficiency, etc. Same as a private jet requires meticulous maintenance, and if you don't do it, it's gonna break down. You wouldn't blame an airplane for being bad just because it breaks down due to not being maintained as recommended, would you.
There is mistake in your video when showing the engine block. The B58 is a closed deck engine it's not a open deck system. That another reason why it's a very good engine. There no posible way water will get into the piston because the top of the engine block is not open it's closed off. You showed a engine with a open deck that not a B58 engine block.
to be honest yes the b58 is reliable but once all the quirks of the n54 had been settled and people understood how to fix them, it has been a pretty good car. I haven't had issues with my for years thank Yahuah
3:59 "it was a collaboration project between BMW and toyota" - this is called "badge engineering" 4:41 you're saying that toyota borrowed the engine to build the new supra. That does not show the full picture, as in fact, pretty much everything including chassis (CLAR platform, same as 3-series has), ZF gearbox, brakes, suspension, steering wheel, infotainment system, even keys - is from BMW. Supra offers you a choice between 3L and 2L engines and the latter, the B48, is also made by BMW. Another thing worth mentioning is that B58 isn't the first reliable+powerful straight-six engine from BMW. The S55 is also relatively new, reliable, event more powerful with stock tune and has great tuning potential.
It wasn't a collaboration. The B58 engine was in development for almost 10 years before it came to the market in 2015, and Toyota partnership started in 2012. Toyota had nothing to do with the development of the engine, they only made slight tweaks to the ones they put into a Supra.
Um....the 2JZ had also oil jets that would squirt oil from the bottom of the cylinder onto the piston. So that isn't something new in comparison as you are stating.
The b58 has 10 year of research and development of components everything is just better than it was on the n54 pistons and rods are stronger, injectors and fuel pumps deliver more fuel and turbos flow better
It’s a built out b58 with a slightly smaller stroke so it can rev higher. But you do have to pay quite a bit to get into the S58 so that’s why it’s not as loved. Expensive but bloody strong.
Surprisingly, BMW was recently listed as one of the most reliable brands out there. I believe either fourth or sixth out of the top 50, with Mercedes near dead last
@@geargrinder69Toyota/Lexus are still #1 in reliability. I would say that Mazda is #2. Overall, BMW is rated #1 by Consumer Reports magazine. That includes performance, ride, quietness, etc.
Let me guess, you didn't break it in properly, you never took it for servicing in recommended intervals, you didn't warm it up properly, you turned it off after driving hard.
A few points of contention, even the b48 2019+ is able to safely and easily handle 500hp with a turbo swap. Also the B58 was absolutely not a collaboration with Toyota as the engine predates the Supra and has been in production since 2015. Toyota inspected the parts but it is literally the exact same engine as all BMWs, not one Toyota part. Thanks for giving the ZF8 some respect. It really makes the b58/b48 shine in terms of performance and playfulness.
There is a video on youtube that goes into great detail about how Toyota engineers spent quite a bit of time analyzing and in some areas improving the reliability of the B58. Anyone who thinks that German engineers know more about reliability than Toyota engineers are living in fantasy land. Toyota's badge on a vehicle symbolizes their commitment to reliability. They would never simply accept another manufacturer's drivetrain without extensive analysis.
The nonsense these Toyoto fanbys and JDM fanboys keep spreading is ridiculous. You can literally go through the part numbers for the engine down to the last screw and see it's all the same exact engine, there's no difference. Toyota made some software tweaks and has some external parts like plastic covers in the engine bay different for packaging reasons. All these Toyota fanboys want to make it sound like BMW didn't know how to make a good engine and then Toyota showed them how LMAO. As if Toyota wasn't making total junk for years and BMW hasn't been making anything but excellent engines for decades and had WAY MORE experience at making high performance engines than Toyota.
@@davepaturno4290 You're flat out lying. They analyzed parts, yes, but they didn't change them. They're the same parts, BMW didn't allow Toyota to do any changes as the engine is BMW's intellectual properly, it's their patented parts, Toyota has no right or ability to do any changes, because it's not their engine, and the engine was in development for 10 years total, 7 years before the Toyota partnership, and largely based on previous generations of BMW engines. Literally nothing to do with Toyota, it's a BMW engine through and through down to the last screw. And yes, if you believe Japanese cars can hold a candle to German cars, you're living in fantasy land. Japanese came to Germans for the engine, not the other way around. If they're so good, why didn't develop their own, why did they need Germans to give them their engine?
@derbigpr500 It was very simple: The cost to design a brand new i6 could not be justified for a low volume sales sportscar. And you are the one who are wrong. Toyota/Lexus reliability has been superior to that of every other manufacturer for over 50 years now. Consumer Reports magazine accumulates reliability data from tens of thousands of vehicles from owners of most makes and models of vehicles sold in the US. BMW benefited from the knowledge shared by Toyota engineers. Toyota would never have their logo on a vehicle in which another manufacturer's parts and assemblies were not thoroughly inspected, tested, and modified as needed. Certainly, Toyota engineers learned of some beneficial technology, but it was a 2-way collaboration, not 1-way as you believe.
@@derbigpr500 You obviously never researched reliability ratings of auto manufacturers that sell in the US. Consumer Reports magazine accumulates data from tens of thousands of owners. Year after year, Toyota/Lexus has topped the list for best reliability. This year, BMW is #7 on that list. Yes, they do well in regards to performance, but NEVER has any German or US auto manufacturer made it to the top of the list. I admire Porsche and BMW for performance, but Toyota/Lexus reliability is and has been superior. And by the way, the Supra's handling tweaks by Gazoo Racing makes the Supra a better track car than the Z4, which is more of a grand touring car.
No it was not a collaboration, BMW did all of the develop themselves and toyota agreed to the engine being amazing in performance and reliability, just paid up for it to be in the supra.
No, that's a lie. BMW 100% developed the engine, Toyota had nothing to do with it. They merely inspected and analyzed the engine when deciding whether to use it. The engine and every single part of it is 100% owned and patented by BMW, and nobody including Toyota has any right to make any changes or use the designs on their own.
Is this a joke? Here in Germany (30 km from the main plant in Dingolfing) it is an open secret, so it is well known that the BMW best and last "top BMW engines" were the M54 and M57 engines. Many of these engines are still running smoothly today and many have 600,000 km and more (there are even some here with over 1,000,000 km!). The later engines were produced with cheaper parts and all caused problems and would never dream of achieving such mileages! So sorry if I have to shatter that illusion here, but the E58 is by no means the king of BMW engines. In fact it is far from it and if you know BMW engines (and not just the BMW engines of the last 10 years because you are only 20 years old) then you know that these engines are actually a disgrace to BMW as the earlier BMW engines were many classes better!
You sound like a Corvette owner who believes the LS1 engine will always be the best. Here in the US, the B58 has proven to be more reliable than any previous i6 engine. Of course, there are many Japanese-designed engines made by Toyota/Lexus and Mazda that are far more reliable, but without the tunability for massive power.
@@davepaturno4290 The opinion of people in the US is irrelevant, because they never drive their cars to high mileage, they don't use their engines nearly as much as people in Germany do, and they don't take care of their cars at all because they lease them and know they'll use them for 2-3 years and then replace them. That sort of wasteful culture in the US doesn't lead to anything good, but let's not get into that, when it comes to cars it means you can't judge how good the engine is gonna be in 10 or 15 years from now if you're only using it for 2 years.
@derbigpr500 You obviously know very little about US owners' driving habits. Many of us have multiple cars, so each accumulated miles very slowly. However, many commute many miles to and from work, and this rack up hundreds of thousands of miles on their vehicles. You can't compare 20 year old engines to newer ones, due to the complexity of the increasingly necessary computers/electronics. In this regard, Japanese vehicles made by Toyota/Lexus and Mazda have proven to be more reliable over time than the majority of German and US-made vehicles. Fortunately for BMW, Toyota assisted in ensuring that the GR Supra would live up to Toyota's reliability reputation.
Manufacturing tolerances and material capabilities have improved greatly in the last few decades, meaning it is easier for newer engines to last longer mechanically than older. Electronics and software often hurt this. The B58 was built to Toyota’s reliability standards, so I’m sure it’ll do at least as good a job of lasting as the other engines mentioned.
the original B58 was made without any input from Toyota, however the B58B30M1 was made after Toyota tested the first gen B58 and didn’t find it up-to-par with their reliability standards. the new B58M1 was a collaboration and BMW used this engine in all the later g-series
Im sorry but calling this engine the best engine of all times is simply negligence. The legendary Mitsubishi 4G63 was just as good if not better- all stock could do 200HP / liter, built... well 600hp / liter achieved by many. Mine was 560 HP (forged internals, 3076turbo) and never ever had any issues. Also lets not forget the nissan skyline engine, the RB26, but then we also should remember the original supra engine the 2JZ-GTE. So yeah- B58 and the S58 is very good, but please respect the elders....
If you watched the video, the word “best” is being used with the criteria that the motor is cheap, reliable, makes good power and mods well. Right off the bat literally every motor you listed are and always were expensive. The B58 (which I own and also don’t think is the best motor at all, but I don’t think price should matter when discussing the best, the author of the video however makes clear for them this is a consideration) is a tully very cheap for the power you can make and is actually very available thanks to being in a huge range of cars. The RB26 is kind of a trash motor. Anyone from that era knows it’s super fragile relative to its peers. It sounds dope but they really can’t accept much more than 400whp without breaking just about the entire bottom end. Craig Lieberman (who was technical director for the Fast and Furious franchise and owned Brian’s legendary Supra irl) discusses this topic in his interested as hell videos about the tuning scene at the time. The 2JZ was always known and since I was produced in such low numbers even in the early 2000s it was impossible to get for a good price. The Supra was high 30s when new and never got below that figure (one 1996 dollar is two of 2024 dollars factually). So easily deserves a spot on any list for the GOAT discussion, but forfeits the cheap criteria. The 4G63 is a definitely an excellent motor, but being a four it has limits not in how much, but how you have to make high hp. A giant turbo four compared to a medium turbo six is just a massively different experience. You bring up specific output which I actually often use myself to examine the capabilities of a motor. It’s why the Mustang 5.0 is so much more impressive to me than the 392 in the Scat (100hp/L vs 76hp/L). But the B58 on stock intervals and STOCK turbo can make 185hp/l with OTS tuned, which is right in the realm of upgraded turbo 4G63 (my 340i with flex fuel, a TU pump and downpipe can run upwards of 500rwhp and that’s stock turbo. Which means it’s pretty well priced per hp per reliability at those levels. If you find the 4G63 impressive (and you should) then you must find the B58 even more impressive since it’s more capable. Perhaps your argument is better directed to a discussion about which *era* specific motor was king of the hill at that time. For years the 4G63 had a very good argument, but these days it’s instead the likes of the B58 competing for the title. But it’s important to note that I personally (as a b58 owner) do not think it’s the best. I think discussion about best shouldn’t factor cost personally. But when that become part of the criterion I think it deserves serious consideration. Still think maybe the LS wins that due to cheaper price and greater availability and higher potential.
Yea but at what kind of fuel consumption, what kind of pollution, what kind of durability, what kind of smoothness and refinement??? Power isn't the only thing that makes an engine great.
The engine can be reliable but its the other parts of the car the breaks! Oil filter housing, coolant leaks, rubber hoses premature leaks, and electrical malfunctions. It's crazy! But im the crazy one sinc ei just bought a 2021 330i m sport! 😂😂😂😂😂😂
B58 absolutely wasn't a joined Toyota and BMW project. BMW developed the engine before the Toyota partnership, and the engine is largely the same as previous generations of the BMW engine. Toyota did absolutely nothing, so stop saying it's a collaboration. The collaboration between Toyota and BMW happened on the level of developing the Z4/Supra platform together. The engine is 100% BMW. Toyota only analyzed it and tested it, but didn't change anything or give any input to BMW to change anything. The engine is 100% owned by BMW, their patents, their intellectual property, and nobody including Toyota has any right to change it.
Stop spreading misinformation. Toyota has had its hand in the b58 in terms of reliability, not hard to find this. There are 3 generations of the b58, one prior to 2018 was Gen 1 which was great but still minor issues. Gen 2 2018/2019 is when Toyota had their hand on improving its weak points which made it extremely reliable and BMW put up with it, unlike GM where they got fed up with toyota and ditched that partnership due to toyotas strict demands that they even when down to the bolts and rivets. Gen 3 b58 was all BMW, thats why youll notice there are only Gen 2 B58s in the supras. 3rd Generation was 2 steps back from gen 2 and its well documented. Also transmissions are built by Magna Steyr in Austria, they only hold ties with BMW but Magna Steyer builds ZF transmissions for various European and American car models. Ontop of that by law in Germany which forbids creation of badge engineered cars which means any foreign companies like toyota could do with BMW was create a basic platform of a car but beyond that, both companies had to develop their own cars independently. Supras exterior design was based of the FT-1 concept back from 2014 led by Nobuo Nakamura in the design team. On the BMW side Michael Michalsky and Adrian van Hooydonk was responsible of shaping the Z4. The only thing after the creation of both was also a colab was that BMW did the track and durability testing in which toyota supplied BMW with the pre-production models. Both cars were also track tested on nurburgring and in japan. Chris Walton quote "We've driven prototypes of both, and each has its own personality. Unlike the Toyota 86 and Subaru BRZ platform-sharing coupes-which are nearly indistinguishable from each other in styling or feel- the Supra and Z4 each has its own distinct body, interior design, and driving dynamics. So don't be tempted to say they are the same car: one witha roof and one without. The supra is every bit the slick Toyota you expect it would be or should be."
This is on baffling statement. I shopped for a MPPSK 340i and those sound dope stock. Add a careless downpipe and the car sounds fucking nuts. I’ve had muscle car bros tell me it sounds insane. I used to drive in sport all the time, now I just pop it one when I’m feeling spicy since it’s loud af.
@@thomasburns3345 because this young generation loves those bangs bs coded sounds exc. Old bmw have better sound than the newer generations . You don't need a downpipe to enjoy the sound exc or doing an exhaust . Fake sound from speakers ... electric stearing ...been in an f series m5 ...was like ok how wast are we going? Nothing no feeling no soul.
@@darklegion7780 My MPPSK was a stock option, and it sounded almost identical to an aftermarket N55. There are a few great videos of them side by side sounding off. I happen to enjoy both notes. After I got my 340i, I got an MHD stage 1 tune almost immediately and turned all “burble” options to 0. Crackle is annoying and also wears critical turbo components, such as the compressor wheel. Now the only sounds my car makes out the back besides a slightly raspy (I might put an addition resonator to clean this up) but deep howl under throttle is occasional shift overrun (due to the ZF shifting so fast). If I could turn that off I would also do that. I also deleted Active Sound Design. So before you make any more generalized (and wrong) assumptions about who I am, how old I am, what I like… I will instead point out that none of your comments spoke to the merits of exhaust note (besides the crackle comment) and I agree that the crackle bullshit is garbage. Just because you have an N55 it doesn’t invalidate or make it worse simply because the B58 also has a good exhaust note. That reads more like you feel a need to attack the B58 to elevate the N55 and that’s not the case. N55 held it down for years and still was good enough for an M car as late as one M2 generation ago. They sound great and are capable of more power stock block than a B58. Their only major downfall is they traded that strength a hair too much for reliability for most people’s tastes. B58 gave up a fraction of the potential the N55 has in order to recoup some of that reliability and I think it was a good move by BMW who have actually changed their perception in some buyer’s eyes. I lusted after the E46 M3 and E39 M5 (which I seriously considered buying a 2003 in the year 2008). I just never pulled the trigger on BMW due to their reliability. So I swore them off. Fast forward to 2023 and when looking to replace my faithful 2013 Audi S4 I search a competent successor to a fast, reliable, highly tunable sports sedan. The 340i showed up time and time again in my research and then looking into the reliability history, BMW’s awards on the subject lately and also acknowledging that Toyota felt comfortable to put this plant in one of their own badged vehicles I finally broke a 20 year personal moratorium and grabbed a 340i. RWD, over 500hp and so far no issues. I am super happy a year and a half later with my choice. With a $425 TU pump and $300 Downpipe and associated software the car rips. I will be installing MHD’s flexfuel controller to start messing with ethanol blends soon (it’s it my garage right now). Currently my car runs a 9.9 for 60-130 in July heat (1200DA) on just the 93 file. It makes a great scenario when you pull dead fucking even with a stock GT350, an excellent car in its own right, and you only have two bolt ons and a 93 file loaded. That is what I call a bit of “soul” for those who consider it lacking. I’ll never get putting down something as though it elevates another thing. It doesn’t. Both the N55 and B58 are beasts in their own rights. Actually UA-camr Sunbish has both and does excellent videos on owning both and what it’s like and the difference (and likenesses) of each. There not as different as you seem to believe considered the N55 was designed from the ground up as BMW’s take on the N55 given 20 years of accumulated experience.
I’ve been daily driving a B58 for more than 5 years now. Not a single issue with the engine! I didn’t know how reliable it is when I bought the car, but now I feel like a winner. It’s a great engine!
For me I just love the sound 😍 it sounds so aggressive
We will al left a girlfriend for straight six days? weeks? CYLINDER!!!!
Been driving my 2jz 25 years. Zero issues 220k miles
Same here, not a single problem in 5 years. Very reliable!!
Would love to hear more. How’s “none-engine” reliability?
I’ve had my 440i for 5 months and it’s been flawless. I bought it with 100k miles and the car is perfect compared to my horrible 60k mile N55 E92 I sold last year. I’ve driven a lot of cars and it’s one of the most well rounded. Best car I’ve owned by far fulfills everything.
Maybe N54?
Anything done to it? Looking at a completely stock 120k mile 340
@@Berkut1986 n54? thats even worse than n55 , my friend bought one about 6 months ago, nothing but problems and problems 😵
@@Berkut1986 N54 are not worth it considering B58 cars are getting under 20k. My 440i was one of the cheapest ever in the country and still will cost less than any N54 overall within a year or two of maintenance.
@@spidamit5278 my cars stock because i've enjoyed it so much more than my FBO and flashed 335i. there's a 340i somewhere on youtube that's been documented almost to 200k miles. there's no known fatal or necessary preventative maintenance on stock cars other than regular things like worn suspension or swapping plugs/injectors you should be fine.
The b58 is not a collaboration project. The motor was developed internally as the N55 successor and when Toyota shopped it they simply checked BMW’s work and had a few tweaks made to meet their standards. Toyota had zero input on the engineering process.
You also need to check your math since the a80 Supra and 2JZ are over 30 years old, not 20 years old as stated.
I will say as I owned a B8.5 Audi S4 prior to my 340i, I do agree the ZF is as good if not better than a DCT. My S4 was an 034 Motorsport tuned 7 speed DCT and I hated it after awhile. It was terrible to drive at low speeds and actually was a weak point on the drivetrain. Luckily mine never gave up but it constantly was displaying weird behavior and I felt like it was definitely degenerating. So I traded it (it did have over 100k of hard miles so I can’t complain) for the 340i. The ZF on the otherhand has the same aggressive character when tuned, but acts like your mom’s accord when you’re not in the mood to be rowdy. It’s actually 👌🏻.
The timing chain issue isn’t an issue. There are folks putting well into the 200k on these motors (even in a highly tuned state) and there hasn’t been a widely known timing failure. The injectors are the only major failure point I can find and as stated in the video is a bit of Russian roulette. Ultimately every motor seems to have a few paths to total destruction and given the low rate of injector failures I think the b58 has a fair claim to being one of the least worrisome motors to own.
Toyota and bmw partnered in 2012. The b58 came out in 2015. Toyota didn’t “shop” for the b58 like you were at a grocery store and it just happed to be on shelf. They were well aware of the b58’s development from the start and provided input along the way
@@STICKSHFT You’re wrong, at least according to the chief engine of the Supra. They co-developed the Z4/Supra platform. The engine was already developed and merely revised by Toyota. The B series was in development and reported on by Car and Driver in April of 2011, a full two years before the Supra began development (according to the guy who is chief engineer, Tetsuya Tada). By the time Toyota approached BMW the B series was already on the road in prototypes.
BMW design, Toyota approved.
@@thomasburns3345 it’s important to note that there are 5 different versions of the b58. Toyota may not have developed the original design but they did in fact help in the multiple revisions
@@thomasburns3345 to be clear im a huge bmw fan boy. I’ve owned 3 e30’s and currently have an f80 m3 comp and an f87 m2 comp.I haven’t made the leap to a b58 though because my s55 cars are not stock and I’ll likely end up with trading one of them to an s58 car in the near future. As a longtime bmw fanboy that has had experience in BMW’s across many generations I can honestly say bmw has improved immensely since they collaborated with Toyota. N54, n55,s55 are all great motors but they all had significant problems. Since Toyota has had a hand in helping bmw refine their newest inline 6 its taken bmw to new heights in performance and more importantly reliability
I owned a b8 s4 for about 40k miles since new. I had apr stage 2+ with ultra charger, all the 034 suspension parts, drivetrain mods, Apr dct tune. It is hands down much more responsive than the bmw zf I have on my bmw x5 m50 and m850. The bmws rpm limiter shows the downshift right away but in reality it takes awhile longer. Audi dct isn’t perfect but the downshifts are much more responsive and visceral compared to bmw zf
That’s how I have my 440 setup. 500 + whp daily driver. I haven’t had so much as a hiccup in six years. Completely reliable and it moves a little bit! I’m flirting with turning it up, but I don’t want any issues. I also don’t want to spend another $20,000 for 200 hp and a half second in the 1/4. I’m good with the 500
@@litspeed7940 500 horsepower is the perfect sweet spot for reliability and power 🔥
@@litspeed7940 this where I plan to call it with mine too. In a year it’s been amazing for me so far on a stage 1 file for 93.
I just went full stage 2+ on 93 and have the MHD Flexfuel controller on my garage bench waiting on me. I figure the 440rwhp or so I’m seeing with the 93 file is plenty but it’ll be cool to have the capability to dump some E in the tank when I have access (poor availability here for me). I don’t want to push it any farther than 500rwhp though since much that seems to be about when both the trans and the pistons start to get a bit less rock solid.
I plan to drive this car another 100k like this if she’ll let me (60k now). Maybe more if she’s still healthy!
@@IzzyE9X Agreed 100%. I have a custom e85 map but haven’t put it on a dyno. My ass dyno says it’s much faster., and that brutal nasty ass fuel smell is gone! The thing I like about it most is the Jekyll & Hyde modes. Push a couple of buttons and you can drive a sleeping baby around Then with another couple of pushes youre sideways waking up county’s 😂😂
How about the ZF8 50 hp? does it handle well ?
What have you done to get it to 500whp?
Im currently mhd stage 2 with a catless dp and I probably sit close to 400whp or perhaps a bit less.
Wondering what else I could do for 500whp. Probably tu hpfp and e30
Had my M140i for 2 years now and not a single issue. Love it ❤
I would say B48/B58/S58 are all the engines that world needs.
yup they have everything for every budget
Yeah. Thanks to its diesel cousin. B48/58 use simillar block design with b47/57 diesel. This diesel use closed deck design. Making it very strong base to begin. With forge crankshaft also make much stronger bottom end
Loving the B58 so far, have an F22 M240i 2019, MHD Stage 2, XHP Stage 3, the power is awesome. Had no issues at all.
This family of engines are better known as Beast 48/58!!
This is accurate, they are beats!
🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥
Is b48 as reliable ?
Search plastic oil pump impeller failures son
Did they fix the oil leaks? My drive way looks like valvoline oil change joint
Reliability makes me want to buy my 22' M340i from Lease
I would
Absolutely would. I was so confident I straight financed my 330i nearly 3 years ago. And not a single problem with the engine at 55K miles!
Love mine! Making around 600whp now and ready for a transmission upgrade to get even more out of it! The fueling and transmission after 550whp are the only obstacles coming making tons of reliable power!
I have 440i with mppsk it was my dream car and I was not wrong. I like it more than m4 because of the reliability and I wanted daily driver. So far no issues I’m very happy with it.
2021 M340 owner here..best car I’ve owned! It’s a performance beast when needed, yet delivers fantastic fuel economy when driven fairly responsibly. 26 mph average, which includes half eco mode and half sport mode. This car can achieve about 40 mpg on long, highway trips (flatish highways!).
@Fundaddy5000 A B48 can achieve 40, but most, if not all vehicles with B58s, including the Supra with reach 35 mpg or so. And that's probably the lightest B58-equipped vehicle out there.
@@davepaturno4290 trust me, dude, 110 mile drive on GSP (NJ) in Eco mode with cruise control set at 74 mph I hit 41.1 mpg avg. M340xi 😎👍🏻
@Fundaddy5000 Car& Driver does a 75 mph economy test and arrived at 35 mpg in a 3400 lb Supra. I guess your BMW is a lighter vehicle?
@@davepaturno4290 go buy one and try for yourself. I could send you the video of it, but I don’t know you and don’t care that much about trying to help you understand something.
@@Fundaddy5000 I have a 2024 45th Anniv with 3500 miles in it. There's no way it would get me 40+ MPG on the highway. Owners in a local Supra group are averaging about 22-23 in city and highway driving. 2.0 Supras do get better mileage, but they are significantly slower.
Maybe I should reduce its weight?
The B58 is terrific in every way. It's simply can't be beat in it's class !!
Been driving my e60 528i for the past 11 years. Engine is a tank and currently pushing 286k miles. I’ve been trying to figure out what BMW I wanted to switch to after this and I’m glad to hear the B58 is so solid. 440i is gonna be top of my list but wouldn’t mind a M340i either
I’m not sure what the name of my engine is on my 2021 X6M but it’s a 4.4 L V8 that is an absolute beast! Whether I drive it at low speeds or hit the M1 or M2 buttons and floor it, it never lets me down and is just thrilling to drive. I love it so much that I don’t want to sell it because it’s out of warranty and I’m so scared that I’ll be hit with massive repair or service bills.
S63
Everything in, on this engine is BMW. it’s badged BMW!
You lost the plot when you say the entire B58 project is a collab with Toyota. That’s simply not the facts.
Somebody finally said it
This Engine is Something Else ...Witness Ehm on 340i My God that car Moves
S58 ported Injected, single bigger hybrid turbo and all the bells and whistles 🎉
i agree. i think the s58 is better
Cheaper for BMW doesn’t translate to cheaper for the customer.
Very durable and gets 31.5 mpg while running 2.9sec 0-60 tuned.
Awesome video ❤...x7 here with th b58 and its an awesome engine. No problems to date and its a 2019. Had valve cover gasket replaced under warranty, but that's it. Super happy with it and looking forward to getting my hands on a x3m comp or x5 b58 and tune it.
I bought a G30 530ix 4 months ago with a B48 engine. Maybe US standards are different, but in Europe 2.0 T engines are usually more than enough and so is the B48. The performance delivered by it is simply almost impossible to be fully unleashed in real life traffic, unless you want to seriously break the law. So the power is clearly there, while being really efficient if you want it to be. Only thing it could do better is the low end flexibility / gas pedal reaction, but that's what you get when you have I4 instead of I6. Still, any sort of harder gas pedal press, kickdown, Sport mode or gearbox into S, it drops two gears and then you fly away. So there is a very small lag, but it's not an issue in everyday use. And you can buy it relatively cheap too. The B58 is much, much more expensive to buy and also more expensive to run. You pay a lot for the additional performance that cannot be fully used, unless you drive on the Autobahns without speed limit. Nevertheless, maybe I will try to upgrade to a B58 someday.
in the USA its worth it to grab the b58. alot of places for us to accelerate 0-60
and that's good, because the B58, the latest ones from the No. 3 generation, has two heavy novelties that can fail
B48 is a joke comparing to B58 :D
@@PuskAxD Why do you think so? What do you have? Did you drive both?
I went from N57 on an X5 30d 2015 to a 640iX GT with B58. The difference of mileage between them is not that big if you drive like a normal human being around 2L/100km more on B58. The biggest difference for me is that me is that i do not have to worry anymore of diesel pollution limiting technologies as egr clogging, egr cooler issues, adblue failures...etc. Having 340hp under your foot and getting an average of 10L/100km is a good trade in my opinion.
"while keeping the i6 setup" How would mods change the engine config?
I dream of this engine, my dream car is a F31 with a B58 6MT swap. But this is insane cost wise. Ive completed this summer a E91 N54 ST 6MT instead, way cheaper, but yeah comes with a lot of maintenance.
Love my S58 and my X3M LCI
We got to admit right now the g80 is a serious platform, with a basic ECU tune and xDrive without exaggeration is A low 11s -10 second car.
i drive 2019 G31 with B58 engine and its been a dream so far 81k km on clock and the only thing i had to deal with so far was top up small amount of coolant like 0,25 l
first time at 78k and now at 81k km ill have a closer look in a month when my next oil change comes up
probably just sensor or a coolant lid or possibly water pump has minor leak should be few € to spend
very little price to pay to have this powerplant under the bonnet innit
I love my 340i
Wait until this guy finds out that the S58 exist xD. Thats the true modern 2JZ successor. Grate video :D
@@federicosuarez1714 video on the S58 soon!
Its all because of the turbo and fueling from factory. We are comparing motor to motor
The S58 hasn't been around ss long, so you really can't say that it is just as reliable as the B58.
Love my b58 haven't done any performance mods yet though
Same here. My 2024 Supra is just fine with the power it has from the B58.
BMW also have valvetronic which is their variable valve lift system that makes the enige more responsive at every rpm
I'm curious, does anyone think it is not worth investing in the gen 3 of the b58, hearing due to the emission goals, efficiency improvements are potential root cause problems for longevity as compared to gen 1 and gen 2 b58s, any of your insights here are greatly appreciated 👍
I clicked this video madly because “best” is so subjective and the S58 is superior to the B58 from a reliability/performance/ potential angle. But once you laid out the criteria you are using for “best” and triangulated around price per these things, it made a lot more sense. Thank you- Stage 2+ B58 owner
What are those stage 2+? I really want to know. Thanks
@@gilsonbarut5016 For Gen 1 B58, stage 1 is software only. Stage 2 requires a downpipe. Stage 2+ means you have upgraded the high pressure fuel pump. Most people (myself included) just install the HPFP off of the Supra, also known as the TU pump, due to their inexpensive price ($425 for mine NIB) and that it is an OEM part. This is required to safely run ethanol mixes, and the TU pump is sufficient for any stock turbo applications.
You can add intake/exhaust but neither are required and have been shown to not really provide tangible gains. The fastest cars are usually running the stock air-box, and the addition of an intake for this motor is usually considered to be more for the sound it makes than actually making more power.
This is the main reason that the B58 has skyrocketed into popularity… it is a rock solid motor stock and retains massive reliability even when highly tuned from its stock form. Reports from Toyota suggest that when they were testing the motor to see if they wanted to use it in the Supra that they pushed their test motor to 700hp. There have been some B58 cars pushing 800whp without having the block opened up at all (1StockF30 has really pushed things in this regard). With simple piston upgrades people have run 1k or more on the B58. This is where the already legendary status of this motor comes from.
For me I have added a $300 down pipe, $425 TU pump, $350 Sutphin trans tune and $400 MHD Stage 2+ tune. I have a $500 MHD flex fuel sensor that once installed will make my vehicle true Flexfuel and I’ll be able to run anything from pump to full E85 and the MHD map will adjust accordingly.
I am making about 460whp on a 93 file with e20 mixed in and should make about 500whp give or take a few once I go flexfuel and start targeting e30-e40 range. In a 3600lbs car, that’s very healthy. 500 to the wheel on a RWD car with an auto trans is realistically pushing on upper 500s at the crank. My PB of 60-130 is 9.9, that’s stock Shelby GT350 and stock C8 Vette territory. All for a total of $1475 in mods on a car that cost me $34k. The value is off the charts. And with the e40 tune/flex fuel people are posting high 7s to low 8s in the 60-130. With a full interior, normal street prep. That’s firmly in Hellcat territory. So for under $2k in mods on a car that can be had for mid $20s these days you can elevate to that level easily and reliably.
It’s no where near the best engine of all time, which is what prompted my comment. I think currently Porsche has a brilliant claim and the S58 (BMW’s M division has an upgraded version of the B58 called the S58 which is in their M2/M3/M4, etc.) is a monster that deserves a nod for sure.
But when adding price into the equation the content creator has a point about the B58. After all, this information very much influenced my decision making and I purchased a vehicle with this motor due to everything I stated above. And I absolutely love it, and couldn’t be more happy with the choice.
@thomasburns3345 Thank you sooooo much! this is by far the best information I have been asking people for what is the best mods to our B58 engine. I have the 2024 Z4 M40i looking forward for upgrading it with the same as what you did to yours 😊
@@thomasburns3345Where can I get the TU Supra pump?
they are great motors.. Whats it make without a turbo I wonder?? And is it in any cars without a turbo? Also how much power do they make before they need to be built??
I wish they made a sucessor the the N52, a naturally aspirated inline 6. RIP
Woah that’s my Supra and M340 video! 11:10
beautifully shot footage, you helped a ton of people learn how great the B58 is with your video 🤝🏻🔥🇩🇪
I’ve been failing and building my 340i I want to make a video about the reliability of being able to drive all across the country
Lets not forget the Mighty B57 Diesel version of the B58
Its a great engine, except for the plastic tappet cover( which is insane), the oil filter can disintegrate, vanos system malfunctions eventually and finally the plastic flanges fails around 120-150k miles. So oil leaks and water leaks becomes common over 100k miles. Such shame bmw uses plastics on parts with heavy thermal Loads
Nice video, I learned something new
Glad to hear that 🔥
Im proud to own a B58 2017
Can you a analysis video like this for B48? Thanks!
You're telling that Germans made a product that doesnt require copious amounts of time and money to maintain? What?!
No, no German product requires that. That's a myth you Americans came up with because you're lazy and wasteful as people and as a culture, and therefore even excellent products break down in your hands.
What I mean by that is, you don't BUY luxury cars, you LEASE them, and because you lease them and know it's not really your car and you won't really use it for more than 2-3 years max, you don't take care of it at all, you don't break it in properly, you don't use it properly, you don't maintain it properly, instead you drive it like you stole it and then throw it away. Most people in the US never take their car to the service station at all unless they get free servicing (which is how a lot of Japanese car brands boost their reliability stats, by giving free maintenance during lease periods and having ridiculously short service intervals like 5000 miles or less), which leads to totally unrealistic reliability stats because Japanese cars can't even come close to German cars for reliability and DURABILITY if they're both equally maintained in the long run. Also, people in the US think taking the car for a service at the dealer is a scam by the dealer, and not an actual requirement by the manufacturer FOR A GOOD REASON. So they just don't do it, and then throw the car away after their lease is over, and then someone else buys that used car that wasn't maintained, and then they keep driving it until something eventually breaks down, which wouldn't have broken if the car had been serviced properly to begin with. Then they can't afford to fix it properly, they take it to some uneducated American mechanic who's used to working on simple Japanese engines or truck V8's that has no clue how to work on European cars and doesn't bother learning even the basics like opening a service manual and checking the torque of screws and bolts, and then on top of it the owners buy cheap replacement parts, and then of course this all leads to a mess and a very unreliable car that breaks down all the time. And of course, what do Americans do? They blame the Germans for making a car that's unreliable, instead of blaming themselves for totally mistreating the car from day one.
This is not a fantasy, it's a fact, and it's backed up by the breakdown statistics. If you look at how many breakdowns of various types the same cars have in the US and in Europe, per 1000 cars let's say, you'll see that all European cars that are on both markets have far more breakdowns in the US than in Europe. Sometimes 10x more. Same cars. Only the owners are different. So who is to blame? If the same cars easily do 300-400k km in Europe and it's kinda hard to even find used ones with less on the clock, but the same cars in the US start to fall apart before 100k, who is to blame?
Maintain the car as the manufacturer recommends. If you don't do that, it's your fault. European cars are complex, they require meticulous maintenance, that's just what's required for achieving such levels of performance, efficiency, etc. Same as a private jet requires meticulous maintenance, and if you don't do it, it's gonna break down. You wouldn't blame an airplane for being bad just because it breaks down due to not being maintained as recommended, would you.
BMW - KING !
There is mistake in your video when showing the engine block. The B58 is a closed deck engine it's not a open deck system. That another reason why it's a very good engine. There no posible way water will get into the piston because the top of the engine block is not open it's closed off. You showed a engine with a open deck that not a B58 engine block.
to be honest yes the b58 is reliable but once all the quirks of the n54 had been settled and people understood how to fix them, it has been a pretty good car. I haven't had issues with my for years thank Yahuah
N54 gang 💪💪💪
Now you have to do the s58
🔜❤️
How about the oil pump issue on the pre 2021 B58s?
3:59 "it was a collaboration project between BMW and toyota" - this is called "badge engineering"
4:41 you're saying that toyota borrowed the engine to build the new supra. That does not show the full picture, as in fact, pretty much everything including chassis (CLAR platform, same as 3-series has), ZF gearbox, brakes, suspension, steering wheel, infotainment system, even keys - is from BMW. Supra offers you a choice between 3L and 2L engines and the latter, the B48, is also made by BMW.
Another thing worth mentioning is that B58 isn't the first reliable+powerful straight-six engine from BMW. The S55 is also relatively new, reliable, event more powerful with stock tune and has great tuning potential.
It wasn't a collaboration. The B58 engine was in development for almost 10 years before it came to the market in 2015, and Toyota partnership started in 2012. Toyota had nothing to do with the development of the engine, they only made slight tweaks to the ones they put into a Supra.
@@derbigpr500 Exactly. This is what my comment is about.
The author however still thinks that Toyota REALLY HELPED BMW with engine development.
is there a big diffrents between b48 and b58 in reability and power?
reliability: not much of a difference besides a bit more expensive since it’s 6 cylinders vs 4.
power: more of a difference.
Um....the 2JZ had also oil jets that would squirt oil from the bottom of the cylinder onto the piston. So that isn't something new in comparison as you are stating.
And they got that idea from Mercedes m104.980
What makes the B58 better than the S58?
The b58 has 10 year of research and development of components everything is just better than it was on the n54 pistons and rods are stronger, injectors and fuel pumps deliver more fuel and turbos flow better
Can we said the same thing about s58?
It’s a built out b58 with a slightly smaller stroke so it can rev higher. But you do have to pay quite a bit to get into the S58 so that’s why it’s not as loved. Expensive but bloody strong.
I'm sorry but you missed the last gen with mild hybrid.
Should I have bought an x5 40i b58 rather than M50i N63 engine?
For reliability perhaps.
This engine better be reliable.The fact that it doesn't even have a oil dipstick, concerns me BMW has a reputation of not being reliable
A engine not having a dipstick has more advantages than not having it, practically yes a dipstick is better
@@LoopBooost exactly 💯
Surprisingly, BMW was recently listed as one of the most reliable brands out there. I believe either fourth or sixth out of the top 50, with Mercedes near dead last
Agree
@@geargrinder69Toyota/Lexus are still #1 in reliability. I would say that Mazda is #2. Overall, BMW is rated #1 by Consumer Reports magazine. That includes performance, ride, quietness, etc.
386 HP. 398 ft/lbs torque. Old video?
My turbo blew 2 months after I bought my 2021 m440i at 32k miles. $5-8k fix if I didn’t have warranty.
Jeez how that hell did that happen
Let me guess, you didn't break it in properly, you never took it for servicing in recommended intervals, you didn't warm it up properly, you turned it off after driving hard.
I cannot take your seriously, sorry. You sound like a troll.
Power train warranty?????
A few points of contention, even the b48 2019+ is able to safely and easily handle 500hp with a turbo swap. Also the B58 was absolutely not a collaboration with Toyota as the engine predates the Supra and has been in production since 2015. Toyota inspected the parts but it is literally the exact same engine as all BMWs, not one Toyota part.
Thanks for giving the ZF8 some respect. It really makes the b58/b48 shine in terms of performance and playfulness.
There is a video on youtube that goes into great detail about how Toyota engineers spent quite a bit of time analyzing and in some areas improving the reliability of the B58. Anyone who thinks that German engineers know more about reliability than Toyota engineers are living in fantasy land.
Toyota's badge on a vehicle symbolizes their commitment to reliability. They would never simply accept another manufacturer's drivetrain without extensive analysis.
The nonsense these Toyoto fanbys and JDM fanboys keep spreading is ridiculous. You can literally go through the part numbers for the engine down to the last screw and see it's all the same exact engine, there's no difference. Toyota made some software tweaks and has some external parts like plastic covers in the engine bay different for packaging reasons.
All these Toyota fanboys want to make it sound like BMW didn't know how to make a good engine and then Toyota showed them how LMAO. As if Toyota wasn't making total junk for years and BMW hasn't been making anything but excellent engines for decades and had WAY MORE experience at making high performance engines than Toyota.
@@davepaturno4290 You're flat out lying. They analyzed parts, yes, but they didn't change them. They're the same parts, BMW didn't allow Toyota to do any changes as the engine is BMW's intellectual properly, it's their patented parts, Toyota has no right or ability to do any changes, because it's not their engine, and the engine was in development for 10 years total, 7 years before the Toyota partnership, and largely based on previous generations of BMW engines. Literally nothing to do with Toyota, it's a BMW engine through and through down to the last screw.
And yes, if you believe Japanese cars can hold a candle to German cars, you're living in fantasy land. Japanese came to Germans for the engine, not the other way around. If they're so good, why didn't develop their own, why did they need Germans to give them their engine?
@derbigpr500 It was very simple: The cost to design a brand new i6 could not be justified for a low volume sales sportscar.
And you are the one who are wrong. Toyota/Lexus reliability has been superior to that of every other manufacturer for over 50 years now. Consumer Reports magazine accumulates reliability data from tens of thousands of vehicles from owners of most makes and models of vehicles sold in the US.
BMW benefited from the knowledge shared by Toyota engineers. Toyota would never have their logo on a vehicle in which another manufacturer's parts and assemblies were not thoroughly inspected, tested, and modified as needed.
Certainly, Toyota engineers learned of some beneficial technology, but it was a 2-way collaboration, not 1-way as you believe.
@@derbigpr500 You obviously never researched reliability ratings of auto manufacturers that sell in the US. Consumer Reports magazine accumulates data from tens of thousands of owners. Year after year, Toyota/Lexus has topped the list for best reliability. This year, BMW is #7 on that list. Yes, they do well in regards to performance, but NEVER has any German or US auto manufacturer made it to the top of the list.
I admire Porsche and BMW for performance, but Toyota/Lexus reliability is and has been superior.
And by the way, the Supra's handling tweaks by Gazoo Racing makes the Supra a better track car than the Z4, which is more of a grand touring car.
No it was not a collaboration, BMW did all of the develop themselves and toyota agreed to the engine being amazing in performance and reliability, just paid up for it to be in the supra.
It blew up at 1200hp and killed a youtuber. The 2jz still does more than double those numbers you"re just a fan
Everyone here that’s a B58 owner, should I pull the plug on a 131k mile BMW X7 x40i ??? Reading all the comments is making me trade in my outback 😂
So it took toyota to assist BMW with this beast of an engine.
No, that's a lie. BMW 100% developed the engine, Toyota had nothing to do with it. They merely inspected and analyzed the engine when deciding whether to use it. The engine and every single part of it is 100% owned and patented by BMW, and nobody including Toyota has any right to make any changes or use the designs on their own.
when equivalent size/cc engine of BMW can out horsepower Porsche's, then something isn't all right
Why drive like 8h0les in traffic @ the 7:20 mark?
you misspelled S58! jk. b58 is not bad.
2JZ still conquers
Intake doesn't need upgrading.
Thank you Toyota for helping BMW make the next 2JZ. Over engineered with simplicity in design.
Is this a joke? Here in Germany (30 km from the main plant in Dingolfing) it is an open secret, so it is well known that the BMW best and last "top BMW engines" were the M54 and M57 engines. Many of these engines are still running smoothly today and many have 600,000 km and more (there are even some here with over 1,000,000 km!). The later engines were produced with cheaper parts and all caused problems and would never dream of achieving such mileages! So sorry if I have to shatter that illusion here, but the E58 is by no means the king of BMW engines. In fact it is far from it and if you know BMW engines (and not just the BMW engines of the last 10 years because you are only 20 years old) then you know that these engines are actually a disgrace to BMW as the earlier BMW engines were many classes better!
You sound like a Corvette owner who believes the LS1 engine will always be the best. Here in the US, the B58 has proven to be more reliable than any previous i6 engine. Of course, there are many Japanese-designed engines made by Toyota/Lexus and Mazda that are far more reliable, but without the tunability for massive power.
@@davepaturno4290 The opinion of people in the US is irrelevant, because they never drive their cars to high mileage, they don't use their engines nearly as much as people in Germany do, and they don't take care of their cars at all because they lease them and know they'll use them for 2-3 years and then replace them. That sort of wasteful culture in the US doesn't lead to anything good, but let's not get into that, when it comes to cars it means you can't judge how good the engine is gonna be in 10 or 15 years from now if you're only using it for 2 years.
@derbigpr500 You obviously know very little about US owners' driving habits. Many of us have multiple cars, so each accumulated miles very slowly. However, many commute many miles to and from work, and this rack up hundreds of thousands of miles on their vehicles.
You can't compare 20 year old engines to newer ones, due to the complexity of the increasingly necessary computers/electronics. In this regard, Japanese vehicles made by Toyota/Lexus and Mazda have proven to be more reliable over time than the majority of German and US-made vehicles.
Fortunately for BMW, Toyota assisted in ensuring that the GR Supra would live up to Toyota's reliability reputation.
Manufacturing tolerances and material capabilities have improved greatly in the last few decades, meaning it is easier for newer engines to last longer mechanically than older. Electronics and software often hurt this. The B58 was built to Toyota’s reliability standards, so I’m sure it’ll do at least as good a job of lasting as the other engines mentioned.
What if we had a v12 version of the b58?
A lot of wrong stats / false info here 😅 but the direction and point is made successfully
Title: Here's Why the BMW B58 is the Best Engine of All Time | 340i 440i A90 Supra
"That's cute" - GM small block V8
Best Engine ever.
Is there a proof that Toyota co-developed this engine?
I was unable to find any evidence that they really took their part in the engine design.
the original B58 was made without any input from Toyota, however the B58B30M1 was made after Toyota tested the first gen B58 and didn’t find it up-to-par with their reliability standards. the new B58M1 was a collaboration and BMW used this engine in all the later g-series
@@IzzyE9X Yes, and that's the third version of B58 among those fitted to supra
Im sorry but calling this engine the best engine of all times is simply negligence. The legendary Mitsubishi 4G63 was just as good if not better- all stock could do 200HP / liter, built... well 600hp / liter achieved by many. Mine was 560 HP (forged internals, 3076turbo) and never ever had any issues. Also lets not forget the nissan skyline engine, the RB26, but then we also should remember the original supra engine the 2JZ-GTE. So yeah- B58 and the S58 is very good, but please respect the elders....
No
lol… my b58 makes 700 wheel with upgraded fuel system and hybrid turbo. engine is unopened and trans is stock.
If you watched the video, the word “best” is being used with the criteria that the motor is cheap, reliable, makes good power and mods well. Right off the bat literally every motor you listed are and always were expensive. The B58 (which I own and also don’t think is the best motor at all, but I don’t think price should matter when discussing the best, the author of the video however makes clear for them this is a consideration) is a tully very cheap for the power you can make and is actually very available thanks to being in a huge range of cars.
The RB26 is kind of a trash motor. Anyone from that era knows it’s super fragile relative to its peers. It sounds dope but they really can’t accept much more than 400whp without breaking just about the entire bottom end. Craig Lieberman (who was technical director for the Fast and Furious franchise and owned Brian’s legendary Supra irl) discusses this topic in his interested as hell videos about the tuning scene at the time.
The 2JZ was always known and since I was produced in such low numbers even in the early 2000s it was impossible to get for a good price. The Supra was high 30s when new and never got below that figure (one 1996 dollar is two of 2024 dollars factually). So easily deserves a spot on any list for the GOAT discussion, but forfeits the cheap criteria.
The 4G63 is a definitely an excellent motor, but being a four it has limits not in how much, but how you have to make high hp. A giant turbo four compared to a medium turbo six is just a massively different experience. You bring up specific output which I actually often use myself to examine the capabilities of a motor. It’s why the Mustang 5.0 is so much more impressive to me than the 392 in the Scat (100hp/L vs 76hp/L). But the B58 on stock intervals and STOCK turbo can make 185hp/l with OTS tuned, which is right in the realm of upgraded turbo 4G63 (my 340i with flex fuel, a TU pump and downpipe can run upwards of 500rwhp and that’s stock turbo. Which means it’s pretty well priced per hp per reliability at those levels. If you find the 4G63 impressive (and you should) then you must find the B58 even more impressive since it’s more capable.
Perhaps your argument is better directed to a discussion about which *era* specific motor was king of the hill at that time. For years the 4G63 had a very good argument, but these days it’s instead the likes of the B58 competing for the title.
But it’s important to note that I personally (as a b58 owner) do not think it’s the best. I think discussion about best shouldn’t factor cost personally. But when that become part of the criterion I think it deserves serious consideration. Still think maybe the LS wins that due to cheaper price and greater availability and higher potential.
Yea but at what kind of fuel consumption, what kind of pollution, what kind of durability, what kind of smoothness and refinement??? Power isn't the only thing that makes an engine great.
@@derbigpr500my stock m340i do 36 mpg on highway
Search plastic oil pump impeller failures...plastic parts everywhere...the slobbering by kids is comical
You don’t need anything but a tune to get 500hp out of a 58.
Pretty sure Toyota had NOTHING to do with the B58s creation.
so many false "facts" mentioned in this video xD
😢
God's engine, according to Jack Businessman! (savagegeese I salute you) 😂
B58 Stock motor 9 sec 1/4 mile record
Yeah ok u smoking crack 😂
Placed in a 2400 lb vehicle, maybe.
@@davepaturno4290 nope
It’s on social media
@@moescolla 😅 A stock 3400 lb Supra with B58 does the 1/4 in 12.2 seconds.
@@davepaturno4290 the video was about a stock motor without building up the internals. The record was with bolt ons..ex turbo, downpipe, etc…
Toyota and bmw built this engine
Apart from leaking injectors, scored cylinder walls and broken rings, and then there's all the under hood plastic that's going to break.
The engine can be reliable but its the other parts of the car the breaks! Oil filter housing, coolant leaks, rubber hoses premature leaks, and electrical malfunctions. It's crazy! But im the crazy one sinc ei just bought a 2021 330i m sport! 😂😂😂😂😂😂
B58 absolutely wasn't a joined Toyota and BMW project. BMW developed the engine before the Toyota partnership, and the engine is largely the same as previous generations of the BMW engine. Toyota did absolutely nothing, so stop saying it's a collaboration. The collaboration between Toyota and BMW happened on the level of developing the Z4/Supra platform together. The engine is 100% BMW. Toyota only analyzed it and tested it, but didn't change anything or give any input to BMW to change anything. The engine is 100% owned by BMW, their patents, their intellectual property, and nobody including Toyota has any right to change it.
Stop spreading misinformation. Toyota has had its hand in the b58 in terms of reliability, not hard to find this.
There are 3 generations of the b58, one prior to 2018 was Gen 1 which was great but still minor issues. Gen 2 2018/2019 is when Toyota had their hand on improving its weak points which made it extremely reliable and BMW put up with it, unlike GM where they got fed up with toyota and ditched that partnership due to toyotas strict demands that they even when down to the bolts and rivets.
Gen 3 b58 was all BMW, thats why youll notice there are only Gen 2 B58s in the supras. 3rd Generation was 2 steps back from gen 2 and its well documented. Also transmissions are built by Magna Steyr in Austria, they only hold ties with BMW but Magna Steyer builds ZF transmissions for various European and American car models.
Ontop of that by law in Germany which forbids creation of badge engineered cars which means any foreign companies like toyota could do with BMW was create a basic platform of a car but beyond that, both companies had to develop their own cars independently. Supras exterior design was based of the FT-1 concept back from 2014 led by Nobuo Nakamura in the design team. On the BMW side Michael Michalsky and Adrian van Hooydonk was responsible of shaping the Z4. The only thing after the creation of both was also a colab was that BMW did the track and durability testing in which toyota supplied BMW with the pre-production models. Both cars were also track tested on nurburgring and in japan.
Chris Walton quote "We've driven prototypes of both, and each has its own personality. Unlike the Toyota 86 and Subaru BRZ platform-sharing coupes-which are nearly indistinguishable from each other in styling or feel- the Supra and Z4 each has its own distinct body, interior design, and driving dynamics. So don't be tempted to say they are the same car: one witha roof and one without. The supra is every bit the slick Toyota you expect it would be or should be."
Bcoz Toyota teach them how to create 6 inline 2JZ
I want to put a b58 in an f80
🤨
Tf
so basically a 340i
@@noro_04 He wants a 340i with extra steps
With dct not a bad idea
*most reliable* not best, chill out
This tells me nothing how the engine works
Still dont beat the 2jz
🤔
It won't be that great in a long run if you look at the amount of plastic used.
I like my b58 i dont like my shit suspension tho
It's fast but has no sound . Tried an n54 335i and i enjoyed it more .
This is on baffling statement. I shopped for a MPPSK 340i and those sound dope stock. Add a careless downpipe and the car sounds fucking nuts. I’ve had muscle car bros tell me it sounds insane. I used to drive in sport all the time, now I just pop it one when I’m feeling spicy since it’s loud af.
@@thomasburns3345 because this young generation loves those bangs bs coded sounds exc. Old bmw have better sound than the newer generations . You don't need a downpipe to enjoy the sound exc or doing an exhaust .
Fake sound from speakers ... electric stearing ...been in an f series m5 ...was like ok how wast are we going? Nothing no feeling no soul.
@@darklegion7780 My MPPSK was a stock option, and it sounded almost identical to an aftermarket N55. There are a few great videos of them side by side sounding off. I happen to enjoy both notes. After I got my 340i, I got an MHD stage 1 tune almost immediately and turned all “burble” options to 0. Crackle is annoying and also wears critical turbo components, such as the compressor wheel.
Now the only sounds my car makes out the back besides a slightly raspy (I might put an addition resonator to clean this up) but deep howl under throttle is occasional shift overrun (due to the ZF shifting so fast). If I could turn that off I would also do that. I also deleted Active Sound Design.
So before you make any more generalized (and wrong) assumptions about who I am, how old I am, what I like… I will instead point out that none of your comments spoke to the merits of exhaust note (besides the crackle comment) and I agree that the crackle bullshit is garbage.
Just because you have an N55 it doesn’t invalidate or make it worse simply because the B58 also has a good exhaust note. That reads more like you feel a need to attack the B58 to elevate the N55 and that’s not the case. N55 held it down for years and still was good enough for an M car as late as one M2 generation ago. They sound great and are capable of more power stock block than a B58. Their only major downfall is they traded that strength a hair too much for reliability for most people’s tastes. B58 gave up a fraction of the potential the N55 has in order to recoup some of that reliability and I think it was a good move by BMW who have actually changed their perception in some buyer’s eyes. I lusted after the E46 M3 and E39 M5 (which I seriously considered buying a 2003 in the year 2008). I just never pulled the trigger on BMW due to their reliability. So I swore them off. Fast forward to 2023 and when looking to replace my faithful 2013 Audi S4 I search a competent successor to a fast, reliable, highly tunable sports sedan. The 340i showed up time and time again in my research and then looking into the reliability history, BMW’s awards on the subject lately and also acknowledging that Toyota felt comfortable to put this plant in one of their own badged vehicles I finally broke a 20 year personal moratorium and grabbed a 340i.
RWD, over 500hp and so far no issues. I am super happy a year and a half later with my choice. With a $425 TU pump and $300 Downpipe and associated software the car rips. I will be installing MHD’s flexfuel controller to start messing with ethanol blends soon (it’s it my garage right now). Currently my car runs a 9.9 for 60-130 in July heat (1200DA) on just the 93 file. It makes a great scenario when you pull dead fucking even with a stock GT350, an excellent car in its own right, and you only have two bolt ons and a 93 file loaded. That is what I call a bit of “soul” for those who consider it lacking.
I’ll never get putting down something as though it elevates another thing. It doesn’t. Both the N55 and B58 are beasts in their own rights. Actually UA-camr Sunbish has both and does excellent videos on owning both and what it’s like and the difference (and likenesses) of each. There not as different as you seem to believe considered the N55 was designed from the ground up as BMW’s take on the N55 given 20 years of accumulated experience.
@@thomasburns3345Are you Ai?
b58 sound is good. the s58 sound kinda sucks.
dude they ruined it with cylinder deactivation, and other "fuel economy" mods... it fails fast now, within 10 to 15k miles, very very sad.
Wrong, try harder toyota fanboy lol.
2jz almost 20 years ago😂😂😂😂😂😂 bro 30+ years
And they gave it to Toyota 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️