Is This Tesla's Secret Price War Against Expensive EV Charging?
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- Опубліковано 11 тра 2024
- For those that haven't been keep a close eye on the market, it might not be obvious what Tesla is up to. But as someone who has been following EVs closely for years, there's a lot more going on than people realise. So to avoid paying over the odds and being ripped off by overpriced competitors, stick around as Dave Takes It On.
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Seems to me Tesla operates chargers to promote EVs while others just want to make a shit ton of money.
Which of the other providers actually makes an EV that they want/need to promote?
Superchargers are a loss leader so that Tesla can make a shit ton of money on their EVs
@@ultrastoat3298 which Tesla invest in new product development and, just in case you were wondering, that is a good thing.
Yes, but what he says is right. Tesla's charging prices have droped when adjusted for inflation.
Unfortunately for us there needs to be A huge increase in the charger network, we travel from Near Hull to Near Blackpool. And to say the east and west coast needs looking at would be an understatement.
There is a big Tesla/Gridserve charging hub at Ferrybridge (nr Leeds) if that helps you?
@@davidjohnbarnard It does, but not enough, wife is refusing to commit even though its a company car ,would be An MG4 se long range which would be perfect ( ish) just a lack of chargers at the other end
Yer Blackpool isn't great for charger's. I've seen so many chargers going in but none in or near Blackpool. It's the same in Torbay in Devon another seaside tourist town. Maybe I'm not seeing them??
Since watching one of your previous videos highlighting the dramatic difference in charging prices between Tesla and the other networks I have signed up for a Tesla membership and I'm convinced that all it is taking is one journey a month from home in mid Wales to work in Paddington. I am making a point of stopping at the Banbury Tesla chargers in both directions. In the morning the price for members is £0.33/kwh and in the evening the price is £0.43/kwh. It is worth noting that right next door to these chargers are a bank of Osprey which are charging £0.79/kwh which probably explains why the Osprey chargers rarely have more than one car charging, whilst the Tesla chargers are often seeing a real menagerie of EV makes and models. Keep up the good work.
Living on the Yorkshire coast my nearest usable tesla open charger is 70 miles away at Harrogate. Not really encouraging.
Yes. Tesla justt picks the low hanging fruit.
Tesla opening 66 sites to none Tesla drivers has been a godsend to us none Tesla drivers, I've been doing a lot of travelling from Liverpool the past month in my Renault Mégane eTech to Chepstow, Cardiff and Southampton and used the Tesla network 12 times together with the membership of course, Saved myself a small fortune.
66 and growing Jeff loads more under construction
I've actually just noticed that Penhale Tesla Supercharger is finally open.
I am going on a long trip to the
While Miles per KwH is becoming the standard metric for EV efficiency, alongside the well-known Miles per Gallon for ICE cars, to get a direct EV to ICE comparison you need to look at Pence per Mile. For a typical car that does 50ish mpg, that runs out around 13p per mile. An EV that gets 4 Miles/KwH would then need to charge at less than 52 Pence per KwH to be mile-for-mile cost effective against the Gas guzzler.
That's the real cost comparison we are looking for to realize the commonly touted notion that EVs are more efficient than ICE cars.
Absolutely. We've just returned from a 2032 mile trip to Italy at a cost of around £218. That needs 68 mpg @ diesel cost of average £1.57 per litre to match that. Then when we got back, Octopus Agile rates today were fabulous giving me 115 miles or range for less than what half a litre of diesel costs. :)
I've generally worked on the £0.50/kWh for the per mile running costs but if money is your primary issue don't forget to factor in the other costs. I looked at a 3008 and e3008 and worked out I would need to do around 100k miles before the e3008 was more cost effective overall than the 3008 if you were charging at a capped tariff rate.
@@paulweston1106 I got a 2 year old Mii for 11k, so as not to pay the heavy depreciation cost of a new EV.
@@djtaylorutube an EV will always be more efficient than an ICE vehicle because the maximum efficiency of an ICE is about 28% whereas an EV is close to 95%. Efficiency is measured as energy out/energy in
@@G6EJD Yep. 👍
Tesla have just opened the norwich service centre chargers to all but would be interesting if they opened up the chargers at the gridserve norwich electric forecourt but I imagine gridserve have some agreement on pricing with them for that site.
Thanks, yes competition is good and will bring the prices down. I rarely need to use public chargers so for me, I want reliabilty, availability and in last place cost. But of course a cheap available and reliable charge point always wins.
I have not yet tried a SC point in my non Tesla EV, but plan to try soon.
Yesterday I drove Leeds to Norwich and back in my Tesla RWD LFP M3 (2022).
I initially charged at £4.50 on Octopus at home.
I needed one quick stop of about 10 to 15 mins to top up at the Kings Lyn supercharger at £8.
2 people in the car, £12.50 total.
If I’d have done that journey in an equivalent accelerating petrol car, it would have been £40 in petrol.
Also 100% of the electricity used was renewable, so zero emission.
There was no inconvenience, I needed to stop for 10 mins to use the toilet and grab a coffee anyway.
I am old enough to remember petrol being £0.73p in 2004. Mad to think electricity to power a car is now more expensive per kWh unit.
Considering the infrastructure required to provide both types of “fuel” electricity costs are not very justifiable.
Charge at home 99% of the time.
7 schilling and six pence for me....
@@davidstuart4915 😂
Cheers.
Great news, just wish there was one closer to me in the northeast in Redcar as the closest one to me is about 50 miles away
Mate I live in Whitby - can you imagine if Tesla opened a Supercharging hub in our neck of the woods then EV ownership would sky rocket because cheap charging would be available. We cant all charge at home
@@davidjohnbarnard you are so correct
My old stamping ground, used to surf at Saltburn and was there when the pier blew down. Tesla are a bit scarce but plenty on the way
@@davetakesiton just got to wait for them to get set up here and hopefully not too long a wait before they get here
Hi Dave, thanks for your informative videos. I've just signed up on the Tesla app. How do you know if it's open to non-Teslas?
UK still has insane pricing for DC charging tbh.
Here in Norway you have to be pretty stupid if you charge at the most expensive ones using a 3rd party roaming app. Then it can be up around 6.80 NOK/kWh (~50p). Through winter my DC charging was at most 5 NOK/kWh (~37p). Now its roughly 4.5 NOK/kWh (~33p). Anything more than around 7.50 NOK/kWh (~55p) and it would be cheaper to drive a petrol or diesel.
Tesla seem to have changed their thinking here for non Tesla users. They keep the price high to force them into a subscription. Without it you may as well use other CPOs as they can be cheaper depending on location. The price difference is 1-1.5 NOK/kWh so you have to charge around 80-100kWh per month to break even. That's 500-700km worth for me in summer. That is a lot when usually do 8-10k km per year.
Why would I charge at my local Tesla SuC for 5.25 NOK (~39p) off peak when just next to it Uno-X has two 300kW Hyperchargers for 4.50 NOK (~33p). And Eviny has 3 locations in town charging 5 NOK with -10% by enabling a discount saving in their app so it becomes 4.50 NOK.
I supercharge for convenience. I don’t really care how much it costs. However, this is because I can charge at home. For people who can’t cost as much more of a factor.
Charging on a none tesla network costs a lot more that petrol or diesel, but it doesn't offset the saving of charging at at home for the equivalent of 1.6p a mile. But, the saving to be had at some super chargers, where you can get a p/mile as good as a very economical ICE car, is very attractive
@@markburton8303 Here in the UK fuel is jeye watering. Diesel is £1.78 / litre on average at Motorway services. Assuming the average EV does 4 miles / kwh @ .85p then it is 9.4 x 4 = 37.65 mpg. Or in other words, in the UK, to be cost neutral on "fuel" a diesel would have to do about 38mpg. However, Tesla chargers can be as "cheap" as 35p / kwh meaning a diesel would need to manage 91mpg to be cost neutral. This is a generalisation but even with pricey superchargers, it is no more expensive to refuel. However, it does take longer. The plus is being able to charge at home overnight on even cheaper rates, as low as 7p / kwh. A competing diesel car would need to covers 457 miles on a single UK imperial gallon to be comparable. And the car would have to refuel itself overnight while you were sleeping. :O)
@@ouethojlkjn Including paying for public charging, i'm averaging 3.8p a mile. Plus, the car drives amazingly well. My previous car was ICE and I timed how long it took to refuel it: it was 8 minutes on average. And that was every week. That equates to 7 hours stood at a pump. Over a year of charging, there's only been a couple of times where i've stayed longer than i needed to anyway to allow the car to charge a bit more. That was on a trip to the Alps and a trip to see parents, and then we are talking a few extra minutes not hours. As you say, considering the majority of fueling is done as I sleep, I don't lose much time at all.
Hi Dave, love the channel and all the news you provide. Can I ask you a question please. I am planning a visit from Scotland to Manchester airport in October and looking to charge my ev before I fly. Can you confirm if my ioniq 5 can charge at the Tesla chargers at the Trafford Centre. I have read that there is an issue with my car using tesla chargers. Thanks for your help, and keep up the good work. Take care.
Yes it does! I have an Ioniq 5 and have used the Tesla open to all chargers successfully. Due to the 800 volt architecture the Ioniq 5 has, the charge speed is limited on the Tesla chargers. I was getting around 100 kWh.
@@ziachaudri2848 No you were not. You were getting arounf 100kw. Please use the correct units.
Where can you find an upto date list of open Tesla chargers?
Tesla.com select charging- supercharger -find then deselect all but open to all Tesla supercharger
New subscriber, Good show, quick question what's happening with Alpha charge? they appear to be quite cheap.
There are several networks just entering at a time when prices are set to tumble. I’ll keep an eye out for them
Hi Dave how do I find the Tesla chargers that are open to non Tesla drivers. I drive a Kia Niro 2020.
Simon
A simple Google search should help you with that
Easy, use any charging app (I use Zap map), filter on Tesla Public Superchargers. Dead easy to use once you’ve registered on the Tesla app and added a payment method, just turn up and plug in.
I have 2 Public Tesla sites within 30 miles and have used them a few times. No queuing and reasonable rates - 54p highest I’ve paid mid-day. Far easier than any other charging network and the other nearest one to me is Instavolt which is 89p at all times!
Search 'Tesla find us' and then use the filters on the map
I found one that was excellent in Banbury. For 5 months it was fine. Then Tesla banned my MG5 due to incorrect charging protocols. Many people say there is an update to cure it but all 3 dealers in my area says there is not.
At the M5 Frankley services Tesla charge 56p whilst GridServe charge 74p plus I think an access charge of 95p - disgraceful.
I was at Frankley last Wednesday and didn't see the Tesla ones ,the gridserve units were all empty as well near the entrance to the services .missed my chance there I will look properly next time
I’ve subscribed for the opposite reason, Dave is saying it as is is!
I’ve downloaded the Tesla app will try it end of the month. Thank
Great give it a try and let news know
Do you have a timeframe on Tesla Walton Summit?
No I visit about twice a week but no action yet. Others started about the same time are now opening so I’m hopeful for soon
I'll be visiting the NEC in a couple of weeks. I most likely will use the BP fast chargers option as i live in West Somerset and have no desire to drive into the middle of Birmingham and out again after a full day of walking around the NEC. I'd much rather the car be fully charged when I leave and not have to hang around mid journey. But I'd never consider using the rapids there.
I have a trip to drop someone off at Gatwick in a couple of months time, I was unaware there were Tesla Superchargers nearby as I was planning on stopping at the GridServe center to charge the car before the return journey however, now that I know these chargers exist my plans have changed and I'll be making a stop at the Tesla chargers before returning home!
Dave, do you know the figures for high speed DC charger utilization?
On average are they used for 2 hours a day 5 hours 8 hours?
It’s about 7% across the network just under two hours a day per charger. Utilisation is highest 11.00 to 1300. The investment in the network is only there to harvest tax payer subsidies.
@@tobycolin6271 I was thinking that, but did not know the figures
But with 70% of charging done at home and a lot of the rest done at other destinations , at 50kw or less.
How much is left for the 150-350kw DC super chargers? 10-15% max?
Consider myself lucky to have Model S with free Tesla supercharging for life on the car. Take lots of journeys may not take if paying for fuel.
@patdbean I was thinking about this for a bit before replying. With todays prices, I would almost never use a DC fast charger except when on a road trip. And, when I use one, I use it no more than necessary. If the price was not more than twice what I pay at home, I might have used them a bit more to avoid time shifting the washing machine or dish washer. Of course they could expand their market by lowering the price.
(Edit: I live in Sweden. Much is the same, but not everything.)
@@gunnarparment5050 the only reason there’s investment is to hoover up subsidies. My local garage wishes it hadn’t given up two parking spaces to instavolt the returns are next to nothing. The problem for a garage is it relies on the in store purchases and the foot fall on EVs reduces the in store sales opportunities.
Spotted at least 10 NEW Tesla chargers, nearly ready, at South Mimms Sevices (Clockwise) Good news!
Despite the increasing number of Tesla charging stations opening to all and a growth in the overall number of charging stations in general all that seems to have happened in the past 12 months is that prices at the non-Tesla stations have increased so I'm not sure where the 'pricing war' is.
The comments around fuel pricing and supermarkets was interesting but doesn't feel like it represents the ground truth. Obviously fuel prices are impacted by wholesale prices but in general pricing seems to operate within regional bubbles and within those regional bubbles you have supermarkets operating competitively in their own bubble and other main retailers operating competitively within their own bubble but the main retailers typically remain more expensive than supermarkets and still retain a steady flow of customers. There has been a significant reduction in retailers and independents have largely gone and those that remain are considerably more expensive.
It would be interesting to know how much Tesla are paying per kWh on the supply side and how that compares to what others are paying; if they locked into good deals it would be interesting to know how long those deals last. Similarly it would be interesting to know what sort of ground rents Tesla are paying in comparison to other charger companies; if site owners are making more money from the non-Tesla charging stations is there a risk that Tesla will be paying considerably more for ground rents when rent reviews and lease renewals come up.
Are Tesla charging rates subsidised in any way by the sale of Tesla cars, if so how long is that sustainable and how do Tesla owners who never or very rarely use the public chargers feel about that.
Shortly going to be doing a trip from Aberdeen to Derby (Non Tesla driver). After watching the videos I will be taking out a Tesla membership. It's going to save me a fortune. Open to all chargers nicely spaced at around 2 to2.5 hors apart on the route.
Wise choice and I wish you a happy trip
‘Save a fortune ’? Really?
Whereabouts in Derby are you visiting and for how long? My house is listed on Co Charger, i'm only interested in whatever the Octopus Agile day rate is outside of 4pm to 7pm. Usually less than 15p.
I can but hope that Tesla has decided now is the right time to force greedy charging companies to adjust their pricing, Dave. I'm only charging at my nearest "open to all" Tesla charging site since it's almost half the price of non-Tesla charging companies; the extra five minutes that the drive to it takes and the £1.30 parking charge is more than offset by the reduce per kWh pricing. Plus, being inside a (small) multi-storey car park and being V4 only, it's super fast and clear of the worst of the weather.
Who is Elon? Is he your bosom pal? Use surnames please.
@@rogerphelps9939 In the context of a video about the Tesla motor company (and their charging infrastructure), I didn't think there was any confusion about which "Elon" my comment refers to? Unless there are a multitude of other multi-billionaire EV company owning "Elons" out there? My apologies Mr Phelps, I've modified my OP to help you with your confusion.
My EV uses an 800v architecture, and will only charge at 50kW on a Tesla charger. So I would have to occupy 2 Tesla charging bays for an hour plus to put a reasonable amount of charge in it, instead of 20 minutes at other chargers. So have decide on saving time or money when choosing my charger.
Mine is 800v too but i can pull 150kw from a Tesla charger
You might need to get some accurate data and then have patience. when more cars can operate on 800v the V4s will be updated. In the meantime the V4 chargers have really long cables so no issue of taking 2 bays, and most people I talk to already get well over 150kW. Maybe your data is out of date, please try it for yourself
@@davetakesitonI drive an 800v car too and have the same experience. I have an OBD device and can see I get exactly 420v and 100 amps =42kw. This is only a problem on Tesla v3 sites. On v2 sites I have been able to get around 100kw (didn’t check the obd data that day). There’s no v4 site around where I go but I understand it’s only the dispenser which is v4. The charger and software is still v3 so we are most likely limited to the same 42kw.
@@thelifeofbatteries2603 which car do you have? Because I think the Taycan will get 150kw while my Kia only takes 42kw. Also is that on a v3 site? Because on v2 sites I have seen 100 kw and the station was busy so I could potentially get more if not busy.
@@thelifeofbatteries2603 Depends on the vehicle. I could have bought an expensive on board charger option that would have given me 150kW @400v
California’s electricity cost is so high that cost/mile with EV is 50% higher than comparable gas car. The larger the car, the more EV cost to operate. I don’t know why with so many smart engineers there, no one bother to reality check.
Thats a completely misleading statement. in CA It costs maximum $35 to "FILL" your tesla on a supercharger, so unless your gas is $35 a tank then what you just said is nonsense. (A Toyota Corolla in California right now costs $70 to fill) - do the math. You might hate EVs but you don't get to lie about it.
@@SensibleThinking I have 85D, I know the cost/mile. Check your pge bill and add delivery charge and generation charge per kWh. You are not willing to accept because just like many tesla cult, they cannot see thing objectively.
@@SensibleThinking How many miles do you get on a full charge with the Tesla compared to a full tank in a car. In my Ioniq 5 a full charge is going to give me 280 miles or so whereas a full tank of petrol would get me closer to 450 miles. I'm in the UK so per mile EV is actually cheaper but I'm not sure how valid comparing the cost of a full charge to a full tank is unless the mileage is also equal.
Doesn’t the California sunshine mean that with home Solar, energy for EVs can be super cheap?
The external costs of EVs, CO2 emission if you don't know, still make EVs the choice that out grandchildren will approve of.
If you are planning to use a Tesla Supercharger, make sure you setup payment ahead of time. Don't do I what I did, and assume it would let me use ApplePay - ended up having to call my wife at home to get my credit card details.
Can you visit mid Wales? Be sure to have a full charge first!
Eight Instavolt rapid chargers at Rhug farm shop on the A5 near Corwen, so it’s easy to charge on the way from northern England to mid Wales.
@@drplokta yep at 85p ripoffstavolt
@@drplokta Neither would you need too much charge - at 20mph, electric vehicles must be getting huge miles/kWh!😊😊 That is while many ICE cars are unable to drive in a higher gear than second!😊😊😊
Mid wales is a pain. I go to north/south regular. Either via flint mountain or Aberystwyth. Nothing in the middle other than Dragon Charging which is better than nothing but if there was a supercharger in Newtown area it’d be really handy.
Yes. There will never be any Tesla chargers in mid Wales. All they do is cherry pick.
The superchargers are fabulous but living to the east of the M1 means we are 50 miles away from our nearest. Not a problem to locals who charge at home but for anyone visiting the coast its instavolt 89p rip off. Cities like York and Hull are crying out for superchargers.
Lots of chargers at Monks Cross, think the superchargers are now 59ppKw
@stevenbarrett7648 there are no superchargers at York. The nearest unfortunately is at Harrogate.
@@GrahamWathey thats odd as I used them on Saturday ! Must have been some sort of mirage ! …..not Tesla, there’s also about 50 7Kw chargers there too in the pay & display car park
The "super" prefix is superfluous. Just as there are no supercars there are only cars.
@@stevenbarrett7648 not Tesla Superchargers, Rapid chargers.
They need to get the new chargers at Gretna Green and Preston up and open to all which will allow non-Tesla drivers to go Tesla all the way from Glasgow to Southampton.
Ideally another more convenient one near Southampton e.g. Winchester would make the top up for the return journey easier too.
I noticed that. No open to all Tesla superchargers between Larkhall and Manchester. Would be good if they opened the ones Tebay, but can't see that happening with Westmoreland having there own system. It's one of the reasons I'm planning trips south via A1/M1(a).
I do Bristol to Glasgow with 2 stops, Trentham gardens Tesla and Burton in Kendal Gridserve then Larkhill for the return. It would be really great to get another Tesla option between stoke and Preston I would definitely replace Burton with a new Tesla as soon as I can😃
G'Day from Australia Dave. I only WISH Tesla was the cheapest down under, and it should be, as they only pay 2c/kWh from numerous Solar and Wind farms via a PPA (Power Purchase Agreement). However Tesla is THE most expensive. Please check for yourself to confirm what I am saying...
Welcome Greg, I don’t doubt you. I can only report what I find. Here Tesla is dramatically cheaper.
@@davetakesiton The only way I can get 'cheap' power from Tesla is if I go to the charger at off peak rates (e.g. 3am). But I'm never awake to do it ! ;-)
On any long trip I choose Tesla chargers above all others…
Great one Dave, one reason I bought a Tesla!
Deluded. There are plenty of much better offerings around and if you bought one just so you could pay a bit less for a once in a blue moon charge it is ridiculous.
@@rogerphelps9939 Deluded??? Not at all. Test drove many EV's, didn't fit in many as have a son as tall as me at 6'2", so finding one he could easily fit in was primary. That left me seriously looking at Kia Niro EV and Hyundai Kona. To have ASHP and the trim level I wanted they were around £45,000. Many other cars were available above that price but I did not want to pay more. Tesla Model 3 RWD then at £39,990. It was smoother, quieter and nicer to drive. Then with the bonus of the superchargers, it made far more sense. As i said above...."one reason", not the reason.
Also more efficient and I have now had many trips over 5 miles per kWh equivalent. My old Kia E Niro often gave me around 4.
@@Jaw0lf Buy a Skoda Enyaq 80. A lot more space than in a model Y, cheaper and better. Also can do over 5 miles per kwh when it is over 15 deg C. That is why many critics rated it higher tthan a Model Y.
@@rogerphelps9939 I am super happy with my Tesla Model 3 Highland RWD. I didn't like the Skoda and again now Enyaq is the 85 model and those are nearer £50,000, so no thanks. But hope you enjoy one.
@@Jaw0lfModel 3 is just a saloon, not a practical family SUV with which you can take everything you need for a camping holiday, including using a roof rack and taking the dog. The Enyaq is all of these and is a Model Y beater.
In the United States Tesla raised the price of charging where I live
How do Ev drivers usually react when you tell them Tesla cheaper short distance away?
Do they even realise?
Dave isnt there a danger/scenario where say Gridserve's business plan wont allow them to sell electricity at Tesla prices because their investors were sold on 85p per KWH so the Gridserve chargers are turned off. Gridserve goes bust and hundreds of rapid chargers are no longer available. You seem to assume that Gridserve will have to lower prices to compete with Tesla what if they wont or cant?
Some good points but invalid because you argue against yourself; if nobody is using them isn’t that exactly why they aren’t needed? At all? And if the investors have bunged in obscene amounts of money hoping to cream off the profits by us suckers paying artificially high prices then I am very happy for them to fail dismally. It’s a bit like Tesco putting up prices to please investors when an Aldi opens up in the same retail park
@@davetakesiton Right but that's back to my earlier comment. As long as the executives have creamed off the government grants (tax payer funded), then closing the operation doesn't matter to them. Taxpayer funds their failure, execs walk away wealthy (again). Lets watch and wait.
Chargepoint, yet to make a profit.
What we don't know is how much they all pay per kWh on the supply side or how much they are paying in ground rents for the space they occupy; these will also influence the cost to the customer. The other companies are also only selling electricity as a service, they aren't there to support customers who have bought cars that they are selling.
Generally when a business goes bankrupt its activities are taken over by administrators who seek to sell any assets for the best price possible; hopefully that would be a better run business, not handicapped by large debt
The investors would not care about the retail price of electricity sold by Gridserve, only the bottom line.
As Kim Edwards points out in the comments here, one issue is non-Tesla’s can cause issues at chargers because charge ports on non-Tesla’s can be pretty much anywhere on the car, front, back, left, right. As well as NACS, we need car makers to standardise where charge ports are located on their vehicles. Back left like a Tesla would make sense.
CCS is the de facto European standard not NACS…
RHD vehicles charge port should all be on the rear right corner, not the rear left. First world problems but having to walk about the car late at night it heavy rain is a pain. Especially when the bit behind the car is a wet muddy patch or puddle.
@@grahamboice1857 Hi Graham, yes CCS is the standard in Europe, but CCS is bulky and clumsy. The native Tesla system is better, now called NACS.
@@simonreeves2017 NACS is irrelevant in Europe though.
@@djtaylorutube My point about NACS is that it is a better standard than CCS. It may be too late now, but just as CHADEMO is effectively dead, we should converge on a global standard, and NACS should be that standard imho.
I think that Tesla V3 charger should only be open to Tesla drivers due to some EV taking up 2 spaces due to the charge socket on the wrong side. I have no problem with V4 charger being open to all. If 6 VW id3s turn up 12 V3 charger site only 6 would be able to be used with 6 blocked. I would be upset if I had to wait to charge my Tesla due some EV using the wrong lead.
I agree Kim if all the new V4s are installed Tesla could reclaim the older V2 and V3 locations
Well, Tesla wants to earn money and optimize their capacity usage so it's not going to happen. And why should my Polestar be excluded with the charging port at the same spot as Tesla? If they added detection of cars not standing at the correct spot while charging (i.e. blocking one charger), they could increase the price for them instead of excluding them access.
Or just upgrade to V4...
V4 doesn't fix the problem. We see pictures of people just parking in any stall and picking the cable nearest and that can still be the wrong one.
No. Tesla charge ports are on the wrong side. That is easily solved with longer charging cables anyway.
Ha Ha. If you charge a non Tesla at a Tesla Supercharger you will get a pitiful charge rate. Lower sometimes than 50. That's why it's worth going to a faster charge an pay more for it. You will be on your way in 20 minutes instead of an hour.
Great Keith, if you actually believe that rubbish then please head off there. We really won’t miss you at all. And to help others, maybe you have some video of these pitiful charge rates you could send to me. I’ve never been able to find any in thousands of hours of footage.
Don't the 800 volt architecture cars take a hit but that would be the same for any charging site that offers 400V. I charged my Niro at Reading Services Tesla public chargers a month ago, I didn't notice any problems with the charge rate. Though peak on my car is 77kW so unlikely to stress the charger.
So… you say Tesla are putting their prices up from off peak in the 20/25p range to 40p and call that a price war? Either way, yes it’s cheaper that other charging stations but the nearest open to all Tesla charger is 20 miles away from me. For convenience will drive me to Shell until my wall box is finally fitted.
No Matthew, I never said that, in fact quite the opposite, Tesla prices are coming down, the 22/25p prices are still there. And the price war is not within Tesla. They have already got the lowest prices. I really need to make sure I help my viewers to understand my videos better. The price war is already happening as several networks that previously would have charged 79p are now charging down in the 60-70p range and as predicted business volumes fail to materialise, all will be forced to reduce prices, just like the Oil giant petrol stations now charge very little more than the cheap supermarkets. If you expect a price crash overnight I really do need to make my videos simpler to understand. Re: 20 miles away, it's always your choice; pay 22p and drive or pay 79p and stay close to home. I merely state what is available.
@@davetakesiton I am not wanting to get into an argument but at one point I am pretty sure you said Tesla had set up opposite grid serve at one location and there were charging 75p in comparison to grid serve’s 85. You also said that Tesla off peak prices had been 20- 25p. But round here they are never lower than 40.
Hi Dave, greetings from Oxford. I got my BEV in 2019, and charge at home 99% of the time. On my regular commute I often drive past a fuel station and minimart at Frilford Heath which has two InstaVolt chargers easily seen from the road, these used to be fairly active, but in recent times I have not seen anyone charging there. At 85p per kWh I am hardly surprised when Oxford now has Tesla chargers about 10 miles away at Red Bridge park and ride. InstaVolt needs to re-think its business model.
Too true Simon and several other networks need another look, there’s little time left for them
I’m amazed when I see drivers going to a GridServe EVSE when right next door is a set of Tesla v4 EVSE’s, they simply don’t know they can use the Tesla’s, so on my travels up and down the M5/M6 I make it my mission to educate them!
Maybe between us we can succeed
Keep it quiet we’ll always get charged then! I can’t work out why either if I’m honest
@@barryrathbonelast Friday when I was expecting them all to be in-use the GridServe units were queuing and just me with my BMW and one Tesla at a near setup, their all mad🤷♂️
I know what you mean. Really can’t see why people are obsessed with InstaVolt and Gridserve. I got my VW the week open Tesla started May 2022. I’ve used it all over the UK and parts of Europe along with Ionity on long trips. I occasionally upgrade to membership rates for a month when I’ve trips planned for a 20 min charge. Contemplating annual membership at the moment
@@G6EJD They're all mad perhaps?
Yeah that's what I think about the EV pumpers.
It’s great that you promote the Tesla network but this format will mean that when we go to the supercharger, it’ll be full of BMWs and Jags hogging two charging points. I say they have made their choice. Let them pay the price. Keep the superchargers for those who have a Tesla or there should be a rule that if you are a non Tesla and inappropriately, you need to unplug and let a Tesla in. They can then go back and faff about. I do a thousand miles a week and it’s very annoying when you get to a blocked charger.
That’s one point of view that I find in the minority. I bet you are happy that Tesla has installed about 1,000 brand new chargers, mostly V4s which do not block chargers, throughout the UK funded by the government. You would not have that many without that financial support. I personally would much prefer to have an abundance of Tesla superchargers open to all than less held exclusively for us Tesla drivers and yes I am a Tesla driver and do higher than average mileage.
I drive an EV6 with charge port at rear on opposite side to Tesla's. I love using the Tesla chargers not only because they are much cheaper but also very reliable and I do try very hard not to block more than one space. I find with V4 I have to park quite forward in the correct space and stick out a bit and on V3 I can often park at funny angles or there is space on the other side, I would be very pissed off if I was a Tesla owner and found spaces blocked. You can check out my parking on zapmap Dorking and Trentham supercharger 😅
Having a car manufacturer providing charging services is an anachronism. It might have been OK in tthe US when EVs were justt taking off but not now. Whoever heard of Ford or Stellantis petrol stations with special subscriptionsand deals for Ford or Stellantis customers. IIt is even worse in North America where adoption of NACS ensures a cosy Tesla led cartel.
Just to be picky, the Tesla mission statement includes nothing specific about being cheapest.
I see two options:-
1) Tesla scheming to be cheapest
or
2) The rest, selling the dream to investors, gaining government funds. Executives creaming off at the top and then folding the entire operation when it all dries up. Executives win!
Pick one, I know which one i'm going with.
I’m going with both. The really good news is most people charge at home so anyone trying to hike prices has little effect on them and the average EV owners only does a couple of road trips a year and can swallow ridiculous prices, like ice creams cost twice as much at the beach
@@davetakesiton Right and that's why the high pricing is just aspirational but simpler just to bloat, cream off and kill the company as usual. Investors take a dive, executives walk away laughing.
Tesla becomes clogged with everyone all over them. Can't see how this is a win.
It won't fold. Too much is already invested in the infrastructure.
Tesla isn’t that cheap in the United States it’s still cheaper to have a Diesel truck than a Electric truck
How much profit has Tesla made in the last 10 years and how much does Elon want to be paid?
Do you honestly think that saving money for EV owners is really a priority?
No it’s a by-product of helping to sell cars but get real. Name a single CEO in the whole world who doesn’t make a profit? Elon is by no means the best paid in the world. In your utopian dream should all CEOs forgo all their salaries?
@@davetakesiton So you don't want to answer the question then?
How much profit have they made in comparison to what he wants?
How much have they made via the sale of Govt. created carbon credits?
Not hard questions really.
I live a great life thanks and it doesn't include running extension leads across wet grass to recharge a vehicle.
Tesla will hopefully force the prices down of other operators. We need other providers hand forced to cut ridicious pricing.
Tesla are just subsidising their prices. They pay the same for electricity and their rents will be similar. It will end.
First 😅
Tesla drivers get ready with you pins. If non Tesla drivers take his advise we will be queuing for ages to get our Tesla's charged. When you go to a Supercharger and it says 4 bays free. But when you get there Non Tesla's are taking up two bays at once. So no bays free as 4 are blocked.
Tough. They have to make some sort of return even though it makes a loss so it is firstt come firstt served.
Cheers Dave
Wonder what sort of margins gridserve and the likes assume when charging 85pence per kwh?
68p + VAT
Lets say that they pay 30p to their energy provider.
That leaves them with tidy 38p
I am guessing that Tesla run its network cost as cost neutral
I would assume that they have to pay ground rents for the site they occupy which will eat into that £0.38, then there are the capex and opex costs to take into account.
Even cost neutral is a cost.
Petrol pumps make 2/3p of profit per litre. As petrol is way more energy dense, you need about 4 kwh to travel the same distance hence profit per Kwh should be way less than one pence per kwh.
I assume that capex and open of a petrol pump is similar to a hyper charger here.
Hello mate
seriously contemplating 60 mile round trip to a tesla charger rather than pay 65p at pod point....
I went to my local (ok 18 mile away!) for 45 kWh this morning paid £15.75 at InstaVolt on the way would have been nearly £40! Well worth my £8.99 membership
I've done a 56 mile round trip from Liverpool to The Tesla supercharger at the Trafford centre when it's 22 pence pkwh after 10pm. Well worth the trip.
My decades-old supercharged Mercedes drives fine and I can fill it up at multiple locations less than a mile away, giving me an extra 500 mile range and another 200 in each Jerry can. No child labour or shipping vast quantities of resources and parts was involved in its manufacturing.
Are you mad?
@@rogerphelps9939 most likely, tbh my sister lives in that town so two birds and big shop LOL
We just need Elon to live forever, for everyone to enjoy a better life in all dimensions :) -He will most likely halve UK utility prices within a couple of yrs - Just need him to stop government fleecing pensioners with not fit for purpose level and then clawing it back with Council tax and other taxes ...then perhaps we can regain our dignity and not be faced with the winter choice of Heat or Eat?...
Dave is not a tesla fan boy he is just talking common sense, can't wait until we get tesla charges open to all in our area. Keep up good work Dave.
No he is not. It is Tesla this, Tesla that, on and on and on. Much of what he has to say is teaching grandma to suck eggs anyway.
Dave has very limited knowledge outside of the Tesla marketing bubble.
In the end just another Tesla fan boy believing anything they feed him.
Absolutely right.
Tesla can 😀
Getting fed up of this Tesla fan boy channel. Its called Dave Takes it on, but should be renamed to 'Dave's in love with Tesla'. I am unsubscribing.
What EV do you have, kind Sir?
Saying Tesla have the best charging network is like saying the Earth is a Globe. It’s true and there’s absolutely no disputing that. If you drive an EV (I have a non-Tesla so not a fan boy) you know that, if you don’t then you post comments like this.
It all about Tesla, not sure what Dave is taking on lol
If Dave offends you that much why watch? I’ve an ev and use Tesla membership but drive a Vauxhall! It’s by far the easiest and cheapest option for me as can’t charge at home and live close to an open Tesla charger
See ya 😂