How Edward Van Halen modified Rock songwriting
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- Find out how using a classical composition technique helped Edward Van Halen forge a new songwriting vocabulary in Rock music. We learn how he employed the Tierce De Picardy in song hooks to put a smile on the face of Rock!
Please excuse my brain malfunction at 1:25 when I say Pentatonic Chords. I meant power chords!
Another phenominal video Martin, very well done. Thank you for these - please do not be tempted to wander from the path in regards to the content of your EVH video's , as you have a wonderful uniqueness that is second to none. I guess subconciously it was Edwards classical piano training that paid off for them big time. ....... PS You can never have too much Van Halen content !!! :) .
no disrespect, but I dont think Eddie was making choices subconsciously
@@morrisonreed1 every human constantly makes subconscious choices, although it’s possible to argue there is no freewill.
Eddie was unparalleled as a songwriter. One day he may be better known more for his songwriting than his solos. After all, we see hundreds of kids who can shred, but very few who can craft a song.
Wow, I instantly got it but it took me 48 years to notice, thanks Martin!!
You’ve explained perfectly one of the things I like the most about Van Halen (and Ratt) which I’ve never been able to articulate. Great job sir, and thank you.
Yeah, de Martini cracked the code on that.
I would also give Reb beach from Winger a credit here.
Evh had a very Melodic ear and heart...it came out in his fingers.....he always smiled when he played ....it was in his soul
Exactly 🎉 Van Halen knew how to write a catchy pop tune. I’m glad someone else noticed. You earned my subscription.
Sept 1978 Anaheim Stadium, Sammy opened then VH (right after the release of their 1st album) then Sabbath then Boston headlined. I was 15 got to see Edward up close, also a total of 5 times with Roth and 3 with Sam. Lol live Edward never disappointed! And that sound live was like a force of nature, too much to list. Looking back I was very blessed, but at the same time no matter what was going on when VH was playing there were a few of us who always made sure we were there. Great vid! As a drummer I did not know some of the stuff you were saying, Peace
All the GOATs like EVH, Clapton, Hendrix, etc were not only great guitarists but phenomenal composers as well. Shredding is cool but we really need more great songwriters today if Rock is to rise from the ashes once again!
I would love more a in depth explanation of this, thanks
“She’s Leaving Home” & “I’ll Be Back” by The Beatles👊🏻
Yeah, that's the band I thought of too, they do a lot of minor/major flipping in their songs.
Dude.... you are hilarious (your humor, meaning when you are actually applying humor to a topic), so it took me a second to realize that you are a MAD GENIUS in your recognition of this thing that I've heard nobody else cover this topic or discover this topic at all!!! HOLY SHNIKEYS!!! Most people that can discover something like this cannot do the thing as well as analyze it, so you've got the best of both worlds!
@@d3w4yn3 haha thank you kindly 🤘🤘🤘
Very good video. Another thing I love about Van Halen's music is he seems to employ chromaticism more than other rock bands of his era, and of course the Van Halen brothers' ability to swing the hell out of the song whenever they want to. They are their own genre.
Finally someone spelled out the song structures that made Van Halen songs so surprising, unpredictable, exciting. Thank you !
Mike Palmisano did a vid during pandemia in which he breaks down the whole song structure of most of the VH hits. For sure worth watching.
@@asnark7115 Thank you for bringing up Palmisano’s work. I watched his excellent analysis again. Eddie, the songwriter, makes Eddie meaningful for a small subset of his followers. The majority is stuck on Eruption, or his song intros like the Mean Streak, or Roth’s bombastic lines like Somebody Get me A Doctor. Once Eddie was freed from Roth in the mid-80s, he was finally able to unleash his inner Mozart-the Wild Life soundtrack and on. What used to be cool ideas for song intros, were scaled to become entire songs. Funny, how Eddie mk2 turned off so many “fans.” So be it.
Idolized Ed forever but I never realized he was the first to do this in their writing. 👍🏻
He wasn't the first to do this in their writing.
Wow! Top quality content. Never heard of this musical concept, but now its been pointed out, its so obvious. This is the definition of a mind blowing video.
Yet again, well done Martin.
Fantastic 👏👏👏
Nice explanation of how they sounded like they came from California to me (over in East Lincolnshire when I first heard them). Bright sunshine in the songs (and DLR's blonde hair). But they were driving right in a V8 too!
Great video and good points.
I'd point out that two years prior to VH's debut album, Tom Scholz and Boston reinvented hard rock by purposely writing most songs in major keys, yet with a heavy guitar sound. With different typical minor key songwriting, that would have been considered (at that time) a heavy metal album. Instead it was almost pop - in a way.
What VH did was to take a bit of both the traditional rock was of writing along with the major key to write a lot of heavy riffs in both major or minor, but go to major for the choruses. All of their major hits have choruses that are in a major key, regardless of how the rest of the song was written.
I have chatting about this at work which is a music as cool. Lol. Ratt’s Round and Round was the main subject. I mentioned to someone here, that Eddie played piano with lessons for 16 years! Unchained and many other songs were written on piano. Crazy. Great video…liked and subbed!
Nice detailed breakdown...much appreciated
All super cool -- but I would suggest that Edward's most famous and/or iconic riff is Ain't Talkin' 'bout Love which is pretty much A minor
Yeah, that’s a notable case of a straight minor key, not many Dave era tracks were straight minor. Seminal tune🤘🤘
Brilliant
Keep it coming, Martin. Great stuff
Well done!
This might be why so much of the music from the Japanese metal band, Lovebites, sounds so joyful. Guitarist Miyako, one of the primary composers, was already a concert-level classical pianist before she ever picked up a guitar.
Wow! Very insightful!
Good stuff man .
Thank you so much for this! Very interesting. Absolutely great analysis, and you packed so much in under 10 minutes! Cheers
This channel is great! I love the end of the video where you point out how Ratt does the same thing. And the harmonic bleep-out was clever
Dude, I subscribed the first video I saw of yours! Love what your doing, always get stoked when I see you've done another vid. Keep up this fantastic stuff, love, love, love it!
I'm definitely no music theory guy, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Hendrix used the major resolve thing in the song Are You Experienced. The "chorus" part is an F major and resolves to A major.
@martin smith guitar. Here's one for you. In we are the world which is in E. In the prechorus Michael Jackson "when you're down and out" part the key shifts to E minor and it goes C D and resolves on E major. I don't know if that was Lionel Richie's or Quincy Jones' decision though.
Great video. All these years I'd been listening but hearing. Thanks.
Always new Ed’s Beethoven, Mozart influences weer in his music and he was the modern day version of them. But never new how. Now I know!
Major attracts Chicks, Minor , the dudes. Well rounded is key. Peaks and valleys, ebb & flow. Song was king to Ed and he had an extremely high melodic IQ. BTW, That PL 20 sound amazing bro!
Always interesting, Martin.... very interesting... never thought to Ed this way, but you definitely hit the point. Eddie is an ongoing surprise, even today...
Thank you for this amazing video.
Excellent! I knew it was there but not that the resolution had a name. I’ve heard of the church cadence but not that one!
Wow, glad I watched! Never thought of that!
Subscribed, mate!
Nice licks, man! Awesome video.
I'm into musical form and that stuff. I know Tony Iommi used a picardy third in the song N.I.B, but not in a riff context. He used it to finish the song so it was used in an ending context.
One time I saw this great guitar player talking about Van Halen and how he could make the blues scale sound not like the blues scale by playing it different from everybody else.
Awesome video definitely Interesting eddie was a pecaso in his music he is definitely well missed thanks
Brilliant theory... excellent vid... agree.... Also Dave sang to the groove more than a melody which gave their tracks interesting movement...along with everything else :)
Ive been 'in' for awhile and this vid proved my decision from a few months ago.
As a kid I felt the vibe from VH - and Ratt - I also got it from Boston.
VH really played it up with lots of public gags, smiles and over all good times feel.
Have you seen the Niagara 1978 footage?.. A wild young, ambitious band who create the template of 80s rock bands.
Keep them coming!
🤘🤘🤘
Very astute, Martin. I came to understand something about Eddie as well. We all know about Eddie’s famous nonsense symmetrical scale pattern. I tried to play Eddie’s phrases with proper theory to see how it would sound. Sounded like shite. My belief is that what you have discovered is the reason why Eddie could use his symmetrical scale patterns and sound amazing.
Martin, 2nd video of yours, and I absolutely smashed that subscribe button. You're a warm, affable host, with a lovely touch with skill teaching vs sounding like a swat who's going to tell you the important thing in the last 30 seconds.
Importantly for me, in the last video, you spoke of sound informing memories. I was about the same age when I first heard the debut album, I was about 11, and I think diver down just came out. I (fortunately) only had access to the early albums, so I ripped through those before 1984. There will always be that sense of wonder on hearing THAT tone. I think you are as close to the sound as I would ever hope to achieve w/clean boost>band master>jtm to slave (with the DI tricks). Kudos, and yes greenbacks ftw! Love this channel, thanks!
Great analysis!
Great music composition analysis - more about EVH , Randy Rhoads , Blackmore ? Good sir you are funny also. Glad i found your channel , 🎸
Love this analysis. Reverse engineering VH songs is great content.
I noticed this minor to major uplift (or smile) at the end of Traffic's version of John Barleycorn, which is in Em, but finishes with an EM chord whereupon the clouds part and the sun breaks through. Thanks for explaining the history.
Great channel, great content. Every time I tune in to one of Martin's videos, it surprises me how few followers there are… subscribe, you lot!!!
Excellent video! As for suggestions check out BTO "Roll on down the highway" (1974)
I love your videos …and your guitar playin’
Subbed!
I have to agree with you on this.
Great analysis! (And I did subscribe!)
great stuff sir!
that mode at 5:45 sounds like the Scorpions, 100%.
also, I AM subscribed :)
Coast to Coast? Interesting how that's a snipped off end of a Priest riff. Then Crue borrowed Coast wholesale for Piece of Your Action.
🤘🤘🤘
Good call on RATT
Absolutely. Also a lot of these songs for VH like Unchained were written on piano. 16 years of piano lessons with a teacher according to Al in a interview that was recently let out, so I think the piano played a huge part in VH’s thinking. Also Al played piano, and took arranging in college.
Wild how these bands down played their musical education and knowledge.
Love Round and Round, and always noticed that turn around to the minor back to the major. What a riff!!!! ❤🎉
Well that’s coincidence! Haa! I’m watching the is the Brown Sound a Fender? Video!
Have a wonderful day!
Subbed.
You related to Cliff Williams from Acca Dacca
See, people, even rock and 80s hard rock fans sneer at Ratt, but they are following in the tradition of classical masters.
RATT & ROLL!
Your analysis in terms of harmony and melody is super correct, period.
But... "EVH modified rock songwriting" (???)
Stones, Yardbirds and hundreds of others used this vocabulary in rock music, long before 1978.
EVH just adopted this songwriting as standard.
Tks and thumbs up, of course!
Yes that vocab existed but rarely with a heavily distorted guitar sound. Hence Ed’s sweetened b string tuning, without which it would have sounded way less heroic. Ed modified so much in addition to guitars I’m going to stick with that assessment. Thanks for watching 🤘🤘
@@martinsmith4123 I appreciate your response. Can I make a suggestion? As time went by, I think Edward changed his way of writing rock songs. On the first albums, raw and roots rock (which I love!). Little by little, the influence of rock from the 60s and 70s began to diminish. EVH started using keyboards, melodic lines closer to Journey, the occasional simplified pinch of Allan Holdsworth (which I love!), more overdubs, lots of guitar effects and increasingly saturated timbres, damaging the perception of rhythm, swing and groove, lovely characteristics of EVH style. Anyway, thanks for the space and apologies for "my terrible English".
One of the things that Van Halen did was turn hard rock into dance music. Of course you can jump and "dance" with other hard rock bands like AC/DC and others mentioned on the video, but with Van Halen anyone can dance no matter what type of music they like. Angus Young wasn't so wrong when he said their sound was somehow "pop". I would say that Van Halen was a hard pop band formed by amazing musicians and a virtuoso guitar player...
I heard Van Halen described as “Party Rock”.
I was there at donnington 84, Gary Moore stole the show .. Jake E Lee was outstanding aswell ..
Also Eddie always played with a Cheshire 😁
Interesting
I know it’s off the subject a little, but could you do a video on how to get closest to his tone if you don’t have the budget for one of these high gain amps? Are there any pedals that will get you really in that zone into a clean tube amp, or are you just not going to get there?
Thanks so much for what you do!!!!!
How much of the sound related to the influence of Ted Templeman and the lead singers? The VH sound tended to change with each new singer and the various producers. After listening to the Sammy Hagar & Noel Monk books, it sounded like Eddie would come up with great riffs/solos while the singer and producer would finish the song.
Hey man, awesome video! How are you getting the sound? Is it an amp, or plugins? Sounds really good!
Two things. 1. Minor blues verse transitions into sweet major chorus. 2. Instead of verse going straight into the chorus, it goes to a pre-chorus and without resolving it goes back to the verse - suspending the listener (A-B-A-B then C the big payoff). Runaround, When It’s Love, and many other songs benefit from Eddie’s non-linear, off the hip song structuring.
Great video !
Many choruses of a band like AC/DC resolve in a major key (you shook me, highway to hell). But they also start in a major key, and not a minor like how EvH wrote your examples. So is it pissible that that is the important difference, not ending the chorus in a major key, but etarting it in minor key ? :)
It’s about the substitution of the minor tonic for a major tonic, still within a minor key. It’s quite a specific resolution, unlike going to the relative major for a whole song or a whole chorus. Cheers 🤘🤘
Hey Martin where did you get that explorer from how much and what wood I've been looking for one love your work!!!
I bought the explorer (with a fake Gibson logo) from a tattoo artist for a bargain. Once I scraped the paint the headstock it revealed this lovely Korina Epiphone 🤘🤘
🔥🔥🔥
Almost lost me at 'David Lee Roth's backless chaps' but I'm here for Eddy no matter what! 😆 🎸
Do we get tired of... ANYTHING
=V//= ?!! Not if you’re hanging round these parts -
Thank you mighty = M⚡️=
🫡
Considering his parents' influence, this rewards musical history and how humans "feel" music.
5:46 don't sweat it. fair use.
Honestly, I think Eddie’s songwriting and arrangements are even more impressive than his stunning guitar techniques. Without the songs, most of which came from him, there wouldn’t have been a platform for the rest.
Yes. Also I like his rhythm playing more than lead.
I agree 100% with you it's weird because I hear a lot of people say oh he was just flashy what is guitar tricks. I like this rhythms and songwriting more than anything
🎸👍🎸👍🎸
He got it from the Beatles
Great. Do you think that approach from Edward came from his classical piano education? Thanks.
I was gunna say Rush 😂
I wish I could subscribe twice 😂
I would argue that EVHs rhythmic and harmonic vocab is hugely influenced by Pete Townsend. Particularly the sus 4 chords resolving to the major, plus the who wrote a bunch of their songs in major keys. It's funny that EVH would always sing the praises of EC and JP (whilst always getting in a back handed compliment) but I think Townsends playing influenced him more than anybody.
Ya know why no one could ever find Mozart's teacher?
Because he was Haydn! 🍻
😂😂
Excellent analysis! Do you think he did this on purpose or by accident?
Great question 🤘🤘
I'll do you one better: If all it were, were hammer-ons and flash, no one would give a fuck. I have always maintained that the enduring success of Van Halen flows not from Edward's unique and masterful command over the instrument, but rather from the fact that he was the most influential pop rock songwriter during the second half of the Twentieth Century.
Crazy Train is also major =)
Crazy train is actually just straight minor in chorus and straight relative major in the verse. It doesn’t cross the two together. Thanks for watching 🤘
I remember the big debate back in the 80s the big who was better Eddie or Randy? Imo you cant compare 2 different players but similar in the classical knowledge!
Eddie had almost no “classical knowledge”. He knew no music theory, but Randy followed music theory and very basic classical guitar. I think it is more accurate to say that Eddie’s classical leanings came by ear while Randy actually knew what he was doing when it came to music theory and playing in and knowledge of modes. Ed had none of that.
I think Randy was the first one to do that. If you listen to the first two quiet riot albums, with Randy Rhodes, you will see the same progression. Anyone that has seen them both play the Hollywood scene before making it big, can see that they were both going to be very successful. Sadly Randy left us too soon, but imagine the music we would have had with him still around today. I think the Eddie and Randy rivalry would have been huge.
Btw I subscribed to your channel. I was very impressed by the content and the delivery. Well done.
I want to say Eddie uses a minor pre-chorus in virtually every song he's ever written...😊
Its in 5150 too I think
You have the fair use act on your side!
Nice accent. Heckmondwike?
Cheers, Sheffieldish 🤘🤘🤘
Hahaha.... the statement by Angus Young, made me laugh... I guess people misinterpret pop... it's just short for popular, AC/DC was pop at some time as well... lol.... now days pop music is entirely something different. .
Then the operative question becomes…was it Ed…or Dave.
Or Ted?
@@martinsmith4123 💥 Everyone ready to have their head blown? Listen to Panama, Runnin’, et al. Sound familiar?
China Grove.
Not only the major Picard 3rd lift…guess who produced!?
That’s right, Ted Templeman.
You’re welcome.
Sorry, not to hijack this thread, but I opined elsewhere how listening to iso tracks of Ed are surprisingly rhythmically…right down the middle. And how it takes Alex’s enigmatic counter beats to REALLY bring Ed’s rhythm guitar parts alive.
Now, back to China Grove. Every guitarist alive has struggled with the opening of Panama and how it syncs/doesn’t sync to Alex’s tom pattern (where’s the one!?!). Like Blackdog.
So go to China Grove, mid song, where they come back in from the break, it’s Alex’s Panama tom pattern. 👻
Listen from 0:46 ua-cam.com/video/udSHItTjWyQ/v-deo.html
@@sweetpain67 very cool spot that m8. 🤘🤘🤘
do you think Warren Demartini was aware that he was doing this? He was aware that he copied Eddie...no question...but was he aware that he resolved in major?
Great question. I think since he did it twice (that come time mind instantly) I think he perhaps did. Also like Ed’s use of it, you can only play that game a few times before it before recognisable. Ratt made great use of it. 🤘🤘
@@martinsmith4123 I always loved Ratt..but never like I loved VH. Eddie was everything I ever wanted to hear, and I didn't even know it...until I listened to it. ALl of it...there are gems everywhere. And even if he never tapped a note, he'd still be king.
Jan and Eugenia van halen taught him all he knew
The Beatles did that in the 60's.
And unsurprisingly this music supports a smiling Eddie …
Right off the bat I figured the Beatles however this might put yer statement into better perspective:
ua-cam.com/video/jGaNdKabvQ4/v-deo.htmlsi=MV9mA3EXtD2l6RtX
✌🏻
Id like to think it wasn’t so much as classical music that influenced EVH but his father’s influence with jazz and the jazz standards from his fathers era. IMO the same could be said of DLR influence in the “writing room” most likely influenced by his nostalgia for jazz pop music. Regardless, yes VH were damn creative (and talented) as all get out ✌🏻
Eddie was good friends with Angus and Malcolm, I think Angus was just talking crap to Andy Kershaw who had clearly gone to Donington to take the piss and was being a dick.