The Valle Verde Investigation - Part 2
Вставка
- Опубліковано 20 жов 2024
- To try everything Brilliant has to offer-free-for a full 30 days, visit brilliant.org/... . The first 200 of you will get 20% off Brilliant’s annual premium subscription.
In this video, we'll be continuing our investigation into the mysterious and disturbing world of Valle Verde, a spooky web series about a seemingly innocent children's game from the 90s with a dark underworld of horrific secrets.
Alluvium’s Patreon: / alluvium
Photo of J. Robert Oppenheimer: Los Alamos National Laboratory
This video was sponsored by Brilliant
Support me on:
► Patreon: / nightmaremasterclass
► Ko-Fi: ko-fi.com/nigh...
► Bandcamp: nightmaremaste...
![[UA] NAVI vs MOUZ | BO5 | IEM Rio 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CMBYk0cbGoA/mqdefault.jpg)
To try everything Brilliant has to offer-free-for a full 30 days, visit brilliant.org/NightmareMasterclass/ . The first 200 of you will get 20% off Brilliant’s annual premium subscription.
It's a minor detail and probably mostly a joke, but when Foxxo talks about the statue he claims it's "99 karat" gold. There's no such thing as 99 karat gold, 24 karat is the highest that goes. Either Foxxo is bullshitting or he got conned.
I also want to point out that 24 karat gold is extremely soft and can be scratched or bent. It doesn't suit a large outdoor statue.
With the religious themes everywhere, Foxxo is probably a golden calf/false idol. Misleading the player about the trees of knowledge, lying about the statue.
The statue being a lie reinforces the dishonesty elsewhere.
You missed an interesting detail during the baby scene - at 27:20 the character gets chased out by a surgical gloved-hand wielding a pair of forceps
Also, each level seems to focus on one of the different Deadly Sins - the cake room is gluttony, the eyeball room is envy, the money room is greed, the baby room is most likely lust (it feels like the weakest connection), the record player room is sloth, the red room with the silhouettes is wrath and the mirror room is pride. It seems like the religious connection is a little stronger with this in mind.
He literally says "only looking at this from a Catholicism angle is limiting our understanding of the themes of the work" for the last 3 minutes of this video. Yes it's an obvious answer that fits, but it's not the only answer.
@@birchwwolf You are right but christianity isnt the only religion in south america. There are many micro religions that take inspiration from christianity
Well for the connection of lust
You do know where babies come from Luigi
@@cosmic4769 occam’s razor
@@bobcatiskindajustthere4879 If it is lust, I think its actually the abortion of the child that is lust. Lust is not a sin of *sex*, sensuality, or want to sex, from a Catholic angle, lust is only 'lust' when it brings harm to others. The only possible understanding would be the killing of the unborn for the sake of easier sex. Typical descriptions of lust are: uh, abuse to children, violent nonconsensual intimacy, stuff with animals, stalking/kidnapping, etc.
I think it's essentially a pro-life message in that moment relating to the lust-sin, or its the least obscene way of attempting to depict lust.
The game has a Latin-American quality that imbues strong Catholic symbolism, which contrasts with the underlying technological and socio-political themes. Angelic statues, a giant cross, the date of the first anomaly being Valentine's Day (2/14), the painting of Jesus and statue of David conspicuously tossed in the dumpster and then the surgical gloved hand with forceps in a room of dead babies could have been alluding to abortion? If these scenes were generated by an artificial intelligence within the game perhaps it was trying to provoke some visceral response by playing up the religious angle? Interesting to see how the story further develops. Great analysis as always!
Hey NMMC, I just wanted to say that I do appreciate the depth of your analysis. Even if I don't necessarily believe that the author's own intent for the work entirely covers the breadth and depth of your own observations, I do find it valuable to assess the work, any work, beyond implicit authorial intent. I believe there are themes which can be uncovered that exist within artistic works on a subconscious level, allusions that open alternate paths of potential meaning and provide relevant contemporary insights beyond, as you say, pure escapism.
If I wanted to understand the video on the most literal level, I would just watch it myself. There are also dozens upon dozens of channels that also perform analysis on the most superficial levels of works like Valle Verde. If I want the real deep dive shit, I come to you.
Might be worth noting in the silhouette level: one of the observed effects of the atom bombs dropped in japan was that they could reduce victims to nothing more than the shadows they cast upon the moment of detonation, permanently baked into the concrete behind them. The silhouette appearance could potentially be a direct reference to that, since they played Oppenheimer's quote there.
I may be too high for this but I also can't wait to watch.
Same.
It is really comforting to know I’m not the only high flyer watching this rn. We’re all in this together.
@@evansgagne5060 it is funny to know that out of about 1000 viewers there are at least 4 of us who are stoned
Oh that's why I'm late. I was _way_ too hi to watch this earlier.
@@fraybumbus9310 5
The Picasso painting is Les Demoiselles d'Avignon, one of the most prominent examples of the Cubists use of African masks imagery in their search for new parameters for European Art :^)
Also, footnote about Emil Nolde: that painting in particular is a good example of how the Expressionists (and other European vanguard artists, like the Cubists mentioned before) would look into "primitive art" as the alternative for European artistic Academicism. Early 20 century vanguard art movements were looking into answers as to how to create forms of art that could surpass what Art Academies in Europe were teaching as the only model of art possible, and so thanks to a previous century of colonialism and pillage, said artists would look into the artistic expression of so-called "primitive people" in museums and try to copy their stylizations (while lacking the cultural context of said art). Emil Nolde's art is particularly egregious in regards to this because he was an avid defender of the Nazi regime, even though the Nazis themselves considered him a part of the Entartete Kunst ("degenerate art") assemble and eventually forbade him of creating art.
Valle Verde to me is a very fascinating piece of web media so far because it presents itself as an universal narrative, yet I suspect that as more installments are posted, it will discuss power in a way that is very pertinent to the Latin American experience. The relationship of "work, wealth and materialism" to me invokes the theme of an Argentina that went through a bloody dictatorship (installed by the US, never forget) and then a flawed re-democratization process that might as well have failed considering the country's current economic crisis. The "AI" might as well be a metaphor for the lack of autonomy of Latin American countries, particularly in the 70s: a system fed and trained by an external power, that developed a disturbing power dynamic within its environment. (add to that the mention of "agents", the themes of bureaucracy and surveillance, etc.)
thank you for this context, I found it really interesting. I’m really excited to see what happens next
You beat me to it, excellent breakdown of Picasso's art and the context it took place in! I think your analysis about AI as a metaphor for external involvement in Latin American politics was also especially salient! Good work, I'd love to hear any more ideas you have!
The money being taken away kinda reminds me how, in Paper's Please, if you help out the group trying to overthrow the group controlling Aristoka, you get get a huge sum of money, but it's taken away a few days later by the authorities. Maybe someone didn't like that the player of Valle Verde got all that money?
I don't know if someone else has already said this, but I wanna take a moment to divide the 3 kinds of dialog boxes we have seen so far, this will help us understand a little more of this game nature:
Blue: the common one, this is apparently used for the "default" dialogs, being a constant in every playthrough
Red: these are AI generated dialog, these have some degenerative aspect around the characters, like the Foxxo's comments about the statue. These also can be identified by the moving gear in the top right corner of the box, some king of loading icon, because these are being generated in real time.
Green: this are related to every being that comes outside the game itself, like Matias or . This is the most mysterious so it could be representing something else.
always appreciate that Stocky D can take a twenty minute video and get an hour and a half's analysis out of it
praying for Stocky D to catch on
A Thesaurus, painfully slow speaking speed helps and repeating yourself helps
I always look forward to an upload from you!
Not only do I know I’m going to get a quality video that’s had lots of time and dedication put into it, but your analyses are consistently thought provoking. Every time I click on one of your videos I am greeted with an interpretation of works that I have not yet been exposed to, and I love that. I love challenging my view on works and broadening my perspective on interpretive works, which you continue to consistently provide me with.
Thank you so much for all the hard work you do! It always brightens my day when I see a new notification from your channel.
I tried to apply your refugee interpretation to the seven rooms, and realized that each room could be representing the fears refugees might experience:
The cake room represents finding food/water/other daily necessities
The eye room represents fear about how others will see you
The money room represents fears of making money
The baby room represents fears of losing family
The music room is probably the vaguest, with my best interpretation being fear of loss of culture (since music is extremely cultural)
The red room represents fears of war and discrimination
The mirror room represents fear of losing one’s feeling of self/identity (in mostly in a cultural sense) it could also represent fear of losing religious culture since the statues are of corrupted angels.
Yes! I've been looking forward to this! I did watch your last video and I really liked it after all as you talk about things I never would have thought about. Wonder if this will do the same. Great work my dude
I don't know if it's relevent but the room with the silhouette figures got me thinking about the shadows burned against the walls left as residue from the atom bombs. Maybe it was the "Debug-shima" reference that put me in the mindset to be thinking about World War 2 but it could be an immerging theme. It seems like the artist is also from Argentina? So that may be a coincidence but the connection of Nazi war criminals reportedly escaping to south america and perhaps Argentina in particular could be a connection.
fun fact- the money room's soundtrack is actually taken from the intro to pink floyd's track Money
Always looking forward to these videos. You always manage to deliver high quality commentary and analysis in your work.
24:20 The cash register sounds are a sample from/reference to Pink Floyd - Money
Love this David! Thanks for coming through with part II
From what I've seen so far, I do get a sense that the author has gone through some faith deconstruction. I understand why someone's initial thought might be to view the story through that lens, especially if that's something with which they have personal familiarity. I don't think a religion-focused interpretation of this work is necessarily less interesting or less complete because it is of a narrower scope - no one analysis could possibly cover everything.
I think it's a sign of a compelling narrative that one project can touch on several topics and get many people talking about different aspects of it. 😀
The visual and art style of the series reminds me a lot of the anime movie Night on the Galactic Railroad. The specific whimsical style of the animal characters, very overt use of the cross, and how the characters explore different symbolic areas and scenes like how the player here explores different levels. This may be a more superficial comparison as the themes (especially the religious ones) present are different but regardless I find the possible connection interesting.
The airship and plane in the intro also remind me of the ones from Ghibli movies which adds to the allusions of government and military.
Idk just a note on possible visual inspiration beyond just animal crossing.
26:40 I did not even notice the artworks next to the dumpster, wow. It's very notable that one of the "trashed" works is overtly Christian.
beyond that, I think of the concept of reactionaries getting upset that people are not respecting some narrow restricted definition of traditional art and are "destroying art". I am not sure why the David was selected
I love this so much but also I miss the *clap* footnotes to break up the points.
99 Karat? Straight up lie. Weigh that in with everything else and that seems to confirm some other thoughts about not trusting them. Gold only goes to 24, and it would be far too soft at that point.
11:37 excuse me for being blunt but... goddamn, structuralism uses way too many words and frameworks to get to something which should be much simpler to explain without losing people. an artistic work has a dimension of communication, involving the intentions of the people communicating (creative decisions, symbolism, intended message, etc), and a dimension of inspiration, where a work always must use real phenomena it may not be aware of to inspire it, thereby accidentally creating a model of the real world that we can analyze to examine the characteristics of the author's real-world experiences.
structuralism loses me when it fails to properly separate these two things and acts like the model of real-world experiences is not in there and is just more "signs and interpretation with fluid meaning". it feels like saying that art does not imitate life and really, the real world is entirely subjective. it's up to interpretation whether Toryism and fascism exist. it's up to interpretation what causes there to be refugees or if there are refugees. it's up to interpretation whether Liberalism, structuralism and fascism could just all blend into one movement and everything could be okay actually.
yeah, I'm a little mad at things in general right now and it's affecting what comes out of me. please don't think this is meant personally.
but I do feel like either this is a bad method to look for meaning in Valle Verde and find it, or there's something special about Valle Verde that has enabled it to slip through the cracks of the structuralist tradition and uncover large problems in it.
I feel like I've gazed into the abyss and seen how structuralism could accept any and all injustices happening in a country and just start recontexualizing all of them and saying it's all in how we look at them, don't get hasty now and think that fascist violence is grounds for revolution
edit:
"intricate web of themes, emotions, and experiences"
religion or no religion, now I am just getting more convinced this is taking a message that isn't deep and acting like because it mentions real things and possibly misunderstands them it's actually profound
I would love to see a structuralist take an episode of Fox News and very literally analyze it exactly this way to tell us how profound it is and how we all need to watch it to learn about the human experience
Absolutely love your work. Truly insightful takes I have never thought of. Also you should consider making reading videos as listing to your older videos such as petscop investigation is the perfect sleeping video for me
It's always fascinating to see your more academic analyses of works. Being forward with it, I don't watch your videos for the "correct" interpretation, and I don't think that's something you intend to deliver. While I agree that narrowing the viewpoint leads to missing things, it also provides grounds for a much more focused if not holistic interpretation. What I'm getting at is that, currently, this feels like a case of missing the trees for the forest. Musing over power structures loses the cultural shorthand of Foxxo to Tom Nook or the context that Catholicism provides to the generated rooms.
Night mind's video on this is pretty helpful in regards to the religious aspects
night mind’s analysis?!? helpful?!? honestly I don’t believe you but I’m so hungry for more discussion around this series that I might take a peek
I think something important to note in the art room is the different valuation of forms of art. The expressionist, abstract art is framed as signifiers of wealth, like the gold coins, something desired by the upper classes and framed as shallow, even grotesque. However, the more representational and religious artwork, as well as David, an obvious symbol of "peak" art according to those who despise more modern art, are put in the trash, construed as valueless to the elite. This combined with the gory depiction of abortion in baby level and the overall religious themes may point to a theme of conservative values - religion and the view that traditions and culture have been thrown in the trash in favor of "degenerate" new trends.
The Picasso was les demoiselles d’avignon
22:26 @NightmareMasterclass
I think the following levels focus heavily on christanty, relating specifty to the seven deadly sins.Maybe this world was left untouched by god? Maybe this world is one where sin cannot be cleaned?Or maybe it symbolizes these souls are trapped in a helish like envoriment where they are stuck and tourtered
While art is subjective. I think you are hugely reaching when it comes to the 7 levels. The answer is so simple that you missed the forest for the trees. They each represent the 7 deadly sins. Which makes sense with the religious themes
Have to agree. It's not that it isn't interesting to interpret this through a different lens, but... sometimes the curtains are just blue.
@@JadElClemensI think that he means what the 7 deadly sins represent narratively
honestly, the politics of showing the more experimental art being display while having the religious art/greco roman statue in the dumpster... sorta smells fashy but i suppose i can give benefit of the doubt
As always, fantastic analysis! Hopefully we'll get a new VV video soon, too.
Let's GOOOOOOOOOOOO!
27:04
Paul: *That’s a dead kid.*
Might be an insignificant detail, but the soundtrack in the money room, is from Pink Floyd's song Money.
It's funny I just had a nightmare about this game last night and then you upload this lol
17:59 damn Foxxo hitting him with thr Raging Fox technique.
Ahhh nothings better to watch while ending my musicology things before the last exam :)
Very fun. Glad I found this channel. 😁
re: the picasso, i actually saw this piece in an art history class i have! its a very cropped version of Les Demoiselles d'Avignon, im pretty sure.
the contrasting angels i think are more a representation of colonialism? the player going to a "different area" where he seems to absorb or at the very least gain something from the silhouettes in a violent and oppressed setting, to which they recoil away from, but seem to have no option but to be at the players whim. the player then returns to a serene area, where the violence they just committed is right outside of view
I'n not sure if this has been pointed out but the noises in the coin wolrd are definitly from pink floyd track money ( or at least it sounds really similar )
Considering context of work.
Characters with their eyes closed look ominous.
>48 minutes
oh hell YES get me into a deep dive
another valle verde video is out, check it out
i definitely agree that it's reductive to say that valle verde is straight-forwardly about Catholicism, while ignoring everything else. personally, i find those types of themes to be pretty boring, just because they're so rote. what i'm REALLY interested in is the power dynamics hinted at by the flags, as well as what the AI is supposed to be.
i get why people have to always mention the 7 deadly sins thing and think that you should also mention it, but i gotta ask: if you watch a movie and the whole thing is tinted blue, do you need the guy trying to do a deeper analysis on the movie to point out the whole movie was blue? you saw the blue. everyone saw it. the 7 deadly sins thing was obvious. it doesn't need pointing out lmao.
to read too far into the gold statue- golden things are obviously a symbol of wealth and decadence. but there is something inherently foolish about attempting to create a monument to oneself from gold. its very soft and malleable as metals go- a golden statue in a open air public environment wont last no matter the karat. it indicates someone too obsessed without showing off their image to properly preserve a legacy
How come everyone I've seem describe the greed room fails to mention that the sounds of the cash register are the opening to Pink Floyd's Money specifically? 😂
Because I didn't want to call attention to a potential copyright issue.
This was fever dream
33:39 he left in a double take
AAAAAAAAH YES!!!
yayyyy
Dude I tried to contact u on ur website and didn't go through 😏
Yeah, I gotta fix that. You can email me at nightmaremasterclass@gmail.com if you want to get in touch
Nothing pertaining to this video, but
I've been referring to myself as a hidden gem, and I believe there are a lot of people who are hidden gems as well. I think you are also a hidden gem. Not (just) your channel, but you as well. Idk, I had a feeling ever since you posted the community post 3 months ago, talking about the type of content you post, and the audience that have flooded here. I think that level of awareness is not something I encounter every day.
All that aside, I'm going to watch the video now, while I play minecraft. Which I'm sure I will enjoy.