The new Liquid cooled Triumph Bonneville, which one will you buy?
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- Опубліковано 26 бер 2019
- This video is in answer to frequently asked questions about, The T100,T120, T120 black,street twin, street cup, street scrambler, Bobber, Bobber black, speedmaster, Thruxton, Thruxton R, scrambler 1200XE, scrambler 1200XC and speed twin!
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PATREON. / stuartfillingham - Авто та транспорт
"All you should really be concerned about is how that bike makes you feel when you ride it. That is all that matters."
Well said. Anyone who doesn't understand that, doesn't understand what a motorcycle is for.
Before I bought my first motorcycle in the early 70's, I looked for riding lessons. Telephone directory (yes, I am going back a ways) showed me "Easy Motorcycle Riding" at shop very near my house. The shop turned out to be a BSA dealership owned by Theresa Wallach. Theresa was a small, petite woman, but hardly fragile. The shop was old, even by 70's standards; a single storefront with a well worn wooden floor, dim lighting and a pot belly stove for heat and warming water for afternoon tea. Age added much character to Theresa's face and her British mannerisms were a treat to this young buck in his early 20's at the time. Hope you can tell how much these memories mean to me so many years later. I have an autographed copy of her book "Easy Motorcycle Riding" which is one of the greatest prizes in my book collection. Be well. Ride safe.
Those opening scenes hit hard after a year of lockdowns. Luckily, we are still allowed to go for a ride where I live.
Harley Davidson have gone down the same road, I.e 1 basic model, with lots of different parts added on & call it something else. “Parts bin special”, love the description!
Here is the top of the range model sir, it comes with nearly everything , well except for all the parts you will need from the add-ons catalogue and nearly forgot the upgraded brakes, exhaust, seat, handle bars, power commander and spokes for the wheels but if you are doing the suspension also which lets face it you will need to, you may want to go the whole hog and upgrade the wheels too not just the spokes. You know it makes sense sir and it will suit you sir, did I also mention our line in retro clothing to go with your new upgraded £20,000 steed. Here at Triumph we like to think we have fleeced you of everything, sorry I meant thought of everything sir, after all our customers come first.
harry palmer Well put, Hairy Palms!
I’m 5’8” tall with a 29” inseam. My problem with most new bikes (especially adventure bikes) have seat heights that are too tall. At 66 years it is getting harder and harder to swing my leg over those taller saddles. I currently have a 2009 Bonneville (air cooled,fuel injected). It has been reliable but here are some things I would change: 1. Make it lighter. It is about 80 or 90 pounds heavier than my 2004 Honda F4i 600. 2. Give it a bit more horsepower. A 865cc bike with only 54 horsepower? The Fz07 makes 75 hp and the BMW F800GS makes over 80. 3. It leaks oil and the dealer had no luck with fixing that. 4. That “clunk” into first gear annoys me every time. Still, I love the looks, the electrics and brakes are quite good. The Bonneville Bobber is on my short list although that tiny tank may be the deal breaker. Thank you for the high quality videos and insights.
Jeffrey Hurst
Lol! Bonnieville is perfect 👌 I’m 5’6 and I can flat foot it!
first gear clunks-tigersport-mt 09's & i last noticed someone on a HarleyD
Hmmmm what would I buy new? Ohhh a Kawasaki W800! Maybe a RE 650 or a Moto Guzzi V7.
Triumph classics are dead to me, thank goodness I bought my Thruxton when I did (360 degree air cooled)
I have never owned a triumph, but i really like the Triumph Amearica ,my next choice would be a T 100.... 2019 cuzz there is a power boost over the street twin, ai like the rev counter with twin guages , and I dont do 2 up riding anymore cheers
Well said Stuart, while the British bike builders were sat twiddling their thumbs in the 60s the warning signs were already coming from Japan, Honda's success at the TT with exotic multi cylinder bikes should have been enough of an indication that if you don't invest and innovate then you're dead. Hopefully triumph have learnt their lesson and history won't be repeated...
I’m with you bro, I’m 6’5 and have been told I look funny on my shadow and Bonnie bobber but I don’t care. I’m in it for the thrill of riding. Besides Ive always been cool away ;)
Your point was driven painfully home February 2018 for me, 4 months after paying $10500 for a new silver/black 2017 Street Cup which I quickly parked for the winter with a measly 500 miles on her, my dealer had about 100 of them (mostly yellow ones) for sale at $7999 new. I called and complained, naively asked for some of my money back...they laughed. It took them a year to sell all of those new Street Cups at $7999. I still owe more than that now...🤨
Hi mate I got an email to tell me my street twin has a recall. To do with the wiring harness. I showed the service fella how at full lock the head light bracket hits the loom and frayed the wrapping. He said the recall will move the harness and we’ll wrap the harness where it frayed. This sounds positive to me. Then I went to the sales counter and bought the anodised black oil filler cap. I do like the bike a great deal so I hope all goes as it should. Triumph has a great product, history is so important. Helps you not to repeat previous mistakes.
Unfortunately Phil thats part of the problem, they dont! they continued to build the fault regarding the fuel pump harness in to the bike even after they had been forced by the authorities to recall it back in 2017, and ive complained about this current harness problem several times, ( even mentioned it in an early video) and each time was told to do one! they are only sorting it now because the authorities have compelled them to do so.
@@stuartfillingham oh dear, that does not sound good at all. Someone from Triumph will watch and read all this Stuart I'm sure. So I hope this video is a wake up call. You are highly regarded here, and mentioned often on Triumph rat forum. Thank you for the effort that's put in, to make these videos informative, entertaining and always accurate 🙏
It’s not about which Bonneville you have. It’s about who rides it.
I have a brand new T120 and a Scrambler 900 carburation model, and they are like sisters, something in common but very different.
I love adore my Scrambler 900 and with her I traveled the wold without Öhlins and without expensive upgrades. Just as it came from the dealer. Zero problems and many BMW stopped out of the road. The raider and the use that you want to give your motorcycle are the key.
Yes, You are so right! One should never buy a bike for showing it to other people or regarding how one looks on it, only for the feel one has while riding it... That is because we have our bikes, that look a bit awkward at first for a seasoned rider like us... But they are so cute little puppies to ride! And the eye gets accustomed - after a while they look almost nice. About Triumph - i think there is something coming but don't know what. Hope it will be ok.
Well spoken mrFillingham. Spot on! 6foot 2inches on a 1200 Speedmaster. Love it!
I don’t think you’re coming across at anywhere near troll levels, mate. Quite the opposite. Got a lot of respect for that.
As Churchill was once quoted “Those that fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it.”
I myself am a new rider and having trickily navigated the myriad of Bonneville options I believe my heart is set towards the goal of getting myself the hipster mobile they call the Street Scrambler. Yep... that’s unashamedly me!
I have to say that as someone watching in on Triumph, and following your channel, before buying my first from the stable... I really dig your comments on worry and concern for the potential lean towards quantity over quality from the factory. It’s all good pumping about the bikes, but without the full 360 management of the consumer (Lifetime relationship care) through care and up scaling it really is a House Of Cards cards situation.
I myself love this brand, it’s quintessentially British, in a time where the very concept of what it means to be that is being strenuously put into question. It would be invaluable to see Triumph fly the flag with quality, decency, loyalty and reliability whilst continuing to keep the keenest of eyes for development & innovation.
As with you.. i’ll unwaveringly look to love being a part of such a great community and hope with optimism that recent successes aren’t taken for granted at the expense of us, the consumers/followers/slaves to the cause/fanboys/gushing mortals!!!
Thank you for your post. As always.
(Except for the brass fitting ones, can’t say I’m keen!)
I wish you and your channel well.
👊
Mr Fillingham,
Thank you for your research and bits of news and information. I enjoyed you Motone parts preview, especially the brass products. I have around 1500 SM on my 2019 Bobber and haven’t experienced any gearbox issues. However, back in July on a particularly hot and humid day riding in the countryside I experienced a brief issues where the bike started to slowly lose power. I down shifted and the revs came up but quickly bogged down again. Eventually I ended up in 1st gear and the bike died. I live across the pond in Florida and the thought of being stranded where I was under those conditions had me a bit panicked. I turned the ignition off for a moment and back on again and it started up normally and hasn’t happened since.
I miss the 360 degree crank Bonneville...
If you miss the 360 degree crank Bonneville then you have to try a ride on a 360 degree crank parallel twin air cooled Kawasaki W800. It's an excellent bike and a real joy to ride (and to listen to- it has an excellent '60s Brit bike sound).
@@dougfielding8215 Super easy to work on too. 30 second air filter change, yes please 😅
Agreed, it's a shame they don't offer it as an option. Actually, it wouldn't be that difficult to offer 270, 360, and 180 twins. If I get the money to buy a Bonnie, I'll get a 270, since it's what's on offer, but if they had a 360 option, I would definitely go with it rather than a 270.
Yep, nail on the head. Never thought about it in those terms, but you are spot on. I hope history doesn't repeat itself. If Triumph is in touch with the market, we might even see an electric version of one of the models in the next few years!
Stuart I'm 6foot 2inches and my t120 is incredibly comfortable and easy to ride why anyone would care about how you look while riding is ridiculous, I love my bike I think triumph knocked it out of the park with the t120, maybe with the speed twin and scrambler they should have given them more of there own identity
You wouldn't believe how many people ask me about it Walter! every week!
Your pub music clips remind me of Nellies Pub in Beverley. Used to go there on visits from North Wales years ago.
As a former TT600 and current Tiger 1050 owner i just love Triumph. And in love with the classics like Bonnevilles.
However....Why on Earth did Triumph designed, builds and sells Bobbers, Rockets, Americas .... got nothing to do with British style or herritage. The current 900cc twin is too modern for my taste as well...more a snobs toy... and Pricewise simply not for the working class anymore.
So i Will take a turn and buy me a Enfield Interceptor 650. Although build in India... a true British bike !!!!
Pls continue your excelent reviews Stuart !!. Best regards from the Netherlands
I'm thinking you ought to be hired by Triumph for marketing and quality control. Cheers from California.
I'm looking at the Speed Twin, myself.
Stuart I couldn't agree more. The after sales service is a awful from triumph I have had such poor service that I feel I can't even go into the show room because of the non-interested atmosphere. Personally I am going to restore a 1960s Bonneville and go down that road. It's why I bought A modern T1 20, but I have now realized that ownership of a triumph is more than just having the badge on the tank. They are almost living breathing creature's and if you can take your engine apart sort out problems yourself put it back together and know you had something to do with that , and let's face it what with UA-cam I believe all of us could strip down an old T1 20 engine and rebuild it there's enough information out there .for me that's what Motorcycling is all about. Keep up this great channel all the best.
T100, T120, Thruxton, Speed, Street and Daytona, that’s all Triumph should be in my opinion. Interesting history of the brand, didn’t know half of all that. Went out on my first long ride of the season last sat, the Ducati Monster looked lovely. Stuart, if you get the chance, try out Autoglym Ultra high definition wax, it’s a white Carnauba wax and yes-it’s a bit pricey at nearly 50 quid (it will last you for a long time as you need very little ) though on a freshly claybar’ed tank I’ve never seen gloss like it, the red tank looks fantastic! 😊
I love what u said . To many people care what other people think. I don’t .i hope Triumph goes in the right direction .
I had a 1970 model and wouldn't have swapped it for two 1972+ bikes. I recently test rode a new 900cc Street Twin and the power was comparable to my old 1994 XJ600. My 1995 XJ900 (not exactly a sports bike) would have left it standing and been a lot more comfortable. I had several test rides on the T120 when it came out and was generally impressed except for the price and the "We know the seat isn't very comfortable but we can SELL you a more comfortable one" attitude from Triumph. I have to say I wouldn't buy a new Bonneville and as someone who's been biking for nearly 50 years I share your concern about Triumph's business plan.
Stuart people say lam to small for my bikes but your right it's what makes u happy, l to fear triumph is heading the wrong way down hill they should be concentrating on fixing issues cheers
I believe you have touched on some salient points with regard to Triumph. I too have stopped watching certain new bike launches, as it always is much of the same with a new wrapper.
I’ve always thought you looked great on the Bonneville’s Stuart, it never looked ‘out of proportion’ to me. I’m also tall and well built!
lol thanks Marc!
In agreement with your "concern" over the direction that the Triumph company are heading in. I bought a used 2015 T100 in January (privately). I had the cash to buy a new model after selling my r1200rt lc. But the older air-cooled appealed to me more. I also had an eye on depreciation. As that old saying goes "they aint making them any more" ,suggested that it would hold its retail value more. No regrets on the purchase. Your video on the air-cooled v water-cooled was a good guide. Keep up the fine work.
Hi yes I agree. I have a 2011 se and I am just okay with the oil cooler which is a worry at times. Would have preferred just the fins to cool oil.
Stuart, great video. Thanks for saying what we are all thinking. I too have been getting confused by the proliferation of Triumph models, including the ADV models. I would like to see them scale back and offer a sub-liter bike and an over 1-liter model, both Standard and ADV. Let the sub-liter bikes have an economy and high price model. Plus-liter bikes should only be fully kitted offering. Then sell aftermarket kits to dress up the bikes to make them unique. Don't get me started on Scramblers.... Quality over quantity. Thanks again. Keep up the great work
Well said, Stuart. Interesting that BMW axed some of the R9T variants, I'd say Triumph should definitely follow suit and drop several Bonnie models, maybe cut it back to T100, T120, Bobber and Thruxton R, that's still plenty. When I bought mine there were just the base model and the Bonneville America; I was debating whether to go with the Bonnie or a Kawasaki ZRX, then I saw photos of the then-upcoming T100 and bought that straight away. As I understand it, the T100 was planned as a one-year-only model (the '02 Centenary Edition), but sales encouraged the decision to keep it in the line-up. Really, it's just a Bonnie with a tach, a special paint job and plated engine case covers (and in the case of the '02, a Centenary Edition badge on the side covers). The TFC models are a bit too much, I doubt they'll hold their value well (kind of like an AMG Mercedes); I've seen an MV Agusta F4 Senna at a local dealer, and was shocked at how low the asking price was, and that bike is FAR more beautiful and exclusive as only 300 exist (I was shocked it was even there, let alone having a price tag on it). Nice pub, good music, very nice vintage Triumph there!
Spot on. Once the cash starts to come in integrity disappears.
I wouldn't call 2 brand new well engineered engines (900 and 1200 water cooled) cosmetic. Are you saying the new Scrambler 1200 is a parts bin special? And the different 'styles' of bonnevilles appeal to different people. It's not that hard to choose! I do agree the prices are getting crazy though.
Totally agree Stuart I’ve got the air cooled 865 model I’m 6’2” people have said I look big on the the bike I don’t care I’m comfortable and love to be on it
I've felt pretty much the same. There is an awful lot of brand spread. I would like to see a simplification of the Bonneville range focusing instead on significant periodic upgrades, much improved customer service, and innovative new models such as mid-range machines that appeal to those smaller in stature, for instance.
Absolutely spot on analysis. I have also become less and less interested in the new triumph models as they do seem to similar to already existing models. I bought a T120 and I and I am very happy with it, despite two recall problems an the persistent squealing brakes problem, to which Triumph's answer was unacceptable. But are they saturating the market and ignoring perfecting existing models? Clearly they are.
Here here Mr sare. Quite right. You don't bring out new models when you still have disgruntled customers waiting for their bikes to be put right!
Excellent vlog. Agree. The prices of Bonnevilles in Canada are up there with high quality Japan bikes. I’ve owned 2 T100 and lived them but as you said you should expect more for the price. One thing here is that it is very hard to find used Triumphs at bargain prices. Seems Canadians hold on to them lol so that says something. Still I am drawn to Triumph and maybe I’ve been seduced to the dark side of customer loyalty. Great work Stuart.
Thank you Dave!
I agree Stu... modular concept gone bonkers... look at the Explorer range, 6 models all priced and badge differently. Surly this could be catered for by simply offering options under the same badge to keep residual prices in check.
yes i think they need to calm down a little Dave!
I have a 2013 Bonnieville, I love mine!😻
Stuart, thank you for that reality check. I love my 18 Speedmaster,
. To me it’s a wok of Art, and lovely to ride. This is my first comment on your channel, which I have come to enjoy. I look forward to more.
On another note; I recently washed my bike and the next day my left turn signal for the front stopped functioning. I realized that I probably got water in the controls as full functionality returned later the same day.
Lesson learned. I will be bagging the controls with plastic on all future cleanings.
That gold one is nice bit of kit. Not 'entirely' my style but nicely done none the less. 'Parts bin special' is correct mind. Very easy to make pots of money. For the time being...
I think it was a Down and Out creation Steve the owner was a really nice guy! thanks for watching.
Interesting. Seems to me a lot of big companies don’t invest enough in customer support and resolving issues. Triumph have some class bikes out there in addition to the bonnies but if the dealers aren’t accepting that there are known issues that’s poor.
This Bonneville discussion reminds me of the Ford Mustang. The factory make many models to specialize the look and style. Harley Davidson has the lock add on design, either through the dealership factory custom parts or choosing the special model parts list ( which I have done ).
Hi Stuart; quality content that I somehow missed. I had a T120 - quite liked it - but on the occasion I wanted to push it, I found it a bit wanting; it was a bit too heavy, a bit too slow to tip-in, a bit too slow to... well, slow down. Ended up trading it in on a new Speed Twin. I miss the wire wheels, but that's about the only thing; the Speed Twin still looks suitably 'retro', but it remedies every issue the T120 had in terms of performance, and I don't mean that just in terms of raw power. For what it's worth, I couldn't handle the Thruxton - I'm fairly short, and weigh very little; being bent that far forward was a reach for me, especially when it came to getting a leg down at stop-signs, so that one was a no-go. I was rather impressed by what I saw on the Speed Twin; the wheels are unique, as are the exhaust pipes - bigger yet, the frame has a unique aluminium frame portion that no other Bonneville has, lighter and different alloy engine casings, and a unique clutch pack. The tank paint (albeit only a cosmetic item) is also unique, as are the 'bobbed' unpainted aluminium fenders. In short, stylistic similarities are there, but it's not really a 'parts bin special', and it feels quite different than the other Bonnevilles, with enough unique parts to differentiate it from the others beyond just appearance. Perhaps I'm looking at it with overly rose-tinted glasses, but I think a number of models are indeed fairly unique - the Speed Twin feels it, as does the Bobber (the Bobber perhaps more than any other). I appreciate your perspective, however - you're certainly a good deal older than I, and even if you weren't, it's clear you have a lot more experience with the Triumph brand to judge the modern company against. You're right to caution against Triumph relying on hype instead of substance; I've not seen it yet, but again, my experience with the brand is much more narrow; I grew up with my father's 1973 Triumph Tiger 750, and then moved to the brand new WC models - I'm a bit of a newbie. Cheers!
Just watched this after watching your Triumph gearbox vid. Triumph are in trouble.
Good job, Stuart. You summed it up well. Went into my local Triumph dealer last weekend and I had the same feeling. They need to trim back and focus on quality.
Interested in the comments about squealing front disks on the T120. I have been back to the dealer twice; they are in denial. Other than that a beaut bike
There is a fix out for it Dave. Basically a new front wheel assembly. In order to get them to sort it you will need to push them hard! An email to triumph customer care outlining your issue may help
Stuart Fillingham after a good degree of communication with Triumph Australia and the local dealer they agreed to deal with my squealing front brake. The issue is harmonics, like the sound you get when you run a wet finger around the lip of a wine glass. The fix was, as you suggested, a new front wheel which has what appears to be rubber rings between the wheel hub and the brake discs. Done by the dealer as a ‘good will’ exercise as the bike was out of warranty. Looks a little clumsy but it seems to work. Thanks for your help. David
Glad to see you utilise the Dart Flyscreen on your bikes. I have had on both my T100 and Street Scrambler 900. Both work well and are worth the money.
Interesting and subjective narrative Stuart.... things I’d not thought of in that way .... bonneville is a bike I’d always liked the look of .... I chose my bonneville se because it suited me at the time .... non of the others appealed to myself .... having decided to change to a speed twin , I’d realised it’s bits , but for my small stature and weight I’m 5’11 and 70 when I get the the bike in a few weeks .. for me it was a lot easier to ride and really enjoyable .. ... the T 120 I found just too heavy for me , although it looks great and would be the better two up bike ... and you sure look the biz riding yours .. .... I just hope my other half will be ok on the back .... she never really got on with the se .... riding our Honda Cbf 1000 was great for touring but languished in the garage for some time, as my confidence in riding it had gone ..... I know I diversify from your video , but was at my local dealer today and when I looked at all the bonnevilles I wondered how one chooses .... , but as you mentioned it’s the one that’s right for oneself..... apologies for rambling on and thank you for the help have given ..... many regards Fred ....ps my wife with me found getting on the bike ok , it’s been along time having had a knee replacement..so onwards... looking forward to your next vid
Can't disagree with most of your thoughts here, but it's not all bad news. I was really set on a T120 for the new year, but did have concerns after watching your customer service issues and hearing about other problems. Then the Speed Twin was announced, and it seemed to address a whole range of issues. With the T120, people complained about the brakes, the stalky mirrors, the need to remove silencers to adjust the chain, the weight, and the tubed tyres. The Speed Twin fixed all these things. Loads of people loved the Thruxton engine, but found the riding position a struggle, and the Speed Twin has the same engine but an upright riding position and better placed foot pegs. I bought a Speed Twin when it was introduced in Australia, and as a stock bike, it ticks so many boxes. I absolutely love it. It feels like a genuine progression from the T120 and Thruxton. But to your point, you can't just keep on doing this forever! All your Triumph output continues to be hugely inspirational - keep up the great work!
Well all I can say is triumphs customer care is not going to change just because it's a street twin. And the standard of build will not change because it's a speed twin. Most of the problems reported have affected all models with exception of the brake squeal on the t120 which was down to the design of the wheel not the brakes. Having seen some under the skin photos of the speed twin im pretty sure it's a model I would not wish to own.
@@stuartfillingham7011 You are probably right about the customer care, and what a shame that is. There is in fact already a safety recall for the Speed Twin, for a coolant hose that could melt! I hope you ride a Speed Twin to see for yourself what it is about. Personally I reckon it is closer to what a modern Bonneville should be like, retaining much of the imagery of a traditional bike, but with lots of modern upgrades that make the bike really nimble and fun to ride. I would love to see your review of the new bike and maybe you could consider this for a future vid. Keep up the great work.
Yeah this is the problem when you push a new bike on to the market without developing it sufficiently first! good luck with it and enjoy!@@petersydney5895
well said Stuart, hate to see Triumph slide down the tubes in being too clever. M
any thanks for all your hard video work.. a great aid in 'Triumphing' my 2002 Bonnie
Thanks Stuart. I do agree with a lot of what you’ve had to say. I’m pleased with my Bonnie. I’m six-foot tall as well and am comfortable on it. Our local dealer is very good. They sorted out noisy brakes and a gearbox stuck in 6th gear without a quibble. The bike could,I feel be improved upon by getting it to run cooler, losing a bit of excess weight, and by making it possible to fit tubeless tyres. Parts bin specials are inevitable, but that needn’t be a bad thing...
Regards...Bill
Yep could be right Stuart, let’s hope Triumph stays strong. I had. T120 Black and was impressed with the overall quality, and engine output, but moved onto the Speed Twin, which in my view at another level. Can get up and go, stops when needed, handles very well and comfortable to ride.
Forgive me but I have to add another comment here. I did a ride this past Saturday for a charity fund raiser. To the event and back was just over 200 miles and on the way home I began thinking about my bike and some of the thoughts you stated in your Vlog and it occurred to me that Triumph appears to be playing follow the leader, BMW. BMW has the R9 series and Triumph has various iterations of the Bonneville. BMW is big into adventure bikes so Triumph wants some of that market too and creates a series of ADV bikes to try and grab a piece of that pie. I understand that Triumph is not in a position to challenge the Japanese or Harley. Marketing today is a tricky business. Tastes and styles change more rapidly than ever it seems but when I was a young man Triumph set the pace. Now it seems as though Triumph is just waiting to see what the next big thing will be and then hop on that train.
Very relevant Points Gwynn!
6’ & 15st and very comfortable on my EFI air cooled T100! I have no desire to upgrade to one of the latest Bonneville iterations, the T100 EFI does everything l want it to do and more following my TEC rear shock and progressive fork spring upgrade. This is a very interesting and thought provoking piece of work Stuart and l fully concur with your points well made. Out of interest, l’m just back from a break in Provence, France and judging by the number of the latest Hinckley Bonneville variants l saw cruising around the route nationals French motorcyclists love them!
Owning a Bonneville is better than you could possibly dream. It can be improved suspension being the Elephant in the room and some loud pipes. They aren't slow or under powered (I've got an air cooled SE 865) and that's the only criticisms that hurt the name. Get one you won't be disappointed. Your friends will envy you and your wife will think you love it more than her. Quite simply the worlds greatest motorcycle experience.
I enjoyed listening to what you had to say.
I would never by a triumph! I love my sportster Roadster and BMW R1200R! DON'T need the headache of a triumph!
Spent about £1600 on my 2017 T120 black fitting most of the accessories that you've fitted Stuart. I've really enjoyed your channel and enhancing my bike. Just parted with it for an Indian Scout Bobber. Was going to get another Triumph, but was indeed confused with all of the new offerings. Saw the the new Indian Scout Bobber and was wowed from the moment I laid eyes on it. It was an easy decision. Loads of choice now to start customising once again.
Three years ago I had a problem with my 14’Thunderbird LT. The engine was making clacking noises on the overrun. Sounding for all the world like piston slap. Tried unsuccessfully to get Triumph to trace the fault. With dealers suggesting it was a characteristic, or I was imagining it. This was on a bike with less than 5000 miles on it! In the end I took a big loss just to get rid. Now ride Suzuki. Won’t be buying another Triumph any time soon.
a story I hear all too often colin.
A thought-provoking video Mr F. I'm not sure I'd make the same conclusion about the model strategy and having just taken delivery of a new 1200 Scrambler a couple of weeks ago, I can say the initial quality is way better than my old A/C T100. In fact, I think the engine is about the only component the Scrambler shares with the rest of the range - maybe they've realised :-) The bike is just sublime so far - best bike I've had in fact and I've had rather a lot... Your advice about size and bikes is absolutely spot on, I'm 6'3" and "large build" and I've never given a flying fig what other's think about how I look on the bike, I just care about comfort and how the bike makes me feel. That's part of why I'm loving the Scrambler, it fits me like a glove and the engine is to die for... As ever, thanks for a great video!
Not a dig at any particular erm model, just collective consents over the direction they are going with it. Something the majority seem to be relieved to hear. I actually quite like the scrambler XE or XC?
@@stuartfillingham7011 I have the XE :-) Mrs C has a Bobber, which fits her :-)
I agree with you. The old models were hit because you could turn them into what you want performance and look wise. Now company is making them themself plus charging alot for it, taking away the excitement out of customising them yourself.
Ah excellent I was worried people wouldn't get my point! Thank you sir!
@@stuartfillingham7011 what is the point of street cup and scrambler 900 anyway. You could easily change street twin into any off those. The older scrambler was different from rest because of its 270 degree firing order. Now they all are same. But I do like the new speed twin but then again you can make something similar out of street twin performance and look wise
. I also liked the pub music at start 👍.. I always wanted to go on motorcycle in country areas like that. It's very beautiful. One day I dream to go around Tasmania, it's quite similar to European countryside...
I'm 6'4" and probably look like a guerilla riding my Bonneville T100 and that thought makes me smile. It's comfy nonetheless.
Well said, Stuart! The British disease. The British Car Industry of the '70s was exactly the same. The Mini great car took its engine from the Morris Minor, another great car, in the mid-50's? in 1989 when I emigrated it was called the Mini Metro & still had the same engine. OK, it had increased cc's. but really. So sad. I ride a 2018 Triumph Tiger 800 XCA, I feel it is a significant improvement on the previous model, IMO based on extensive test rides. So some hope maybe. Oh, I'm 6'4" & rode a Honda Super Cub daily for 26 years so ride what you want to ride & ignore the idiots.
Well I can't completey agree. I'm 35 years old and didn't buy my T120 because it was the fastest or best handling but because the bike is just so stone cold simple. Its a true standard motorcycle with a great engine that delivers real world power where I need it. I see the new Bonneville as I would the Suzuki GS, Honda CB and Kawasaki CB lines back in the 80:s (and since I was born in the 80's I'm just referring to the research I've done). The Suzuki GS model(which I hold near and dear to my heart as a GS750L was my first motorcycle) had a huge variation of shaft, chain, small to large displacement bikes ranging from a standard (GS750 IE) to a Touring(G) to grand touring(GK) to A "cruiser" (L) to a Sport (E) and super sport (ES). All the bikes were based off the same frame and engine design with 3 basic engine variants Big block 4, small block 4 and the twins. It clearly sold well and they eventually all evolved into the modern bikes we know and love. These bikes were all parts/bin bikes but they started to variate and new parts only became available until the line branched off, example GS to GSX to GSX-R. Now we still have awesome modern specific motorcycles that will crush a Bonneville if you were to compare it to that specific genere , sure so the Bonneville can't "evolve without becoming something that already exists... The variants are there because the customer wants them. Supply meets demand Stewart. The T120 IE is still one of the best standard motorcycles on the market. The motor is only 3 years old and I can say it's premature to say it's long in the tooth. Making a Modern classic is like printing money and Triumph is the mint... Anyway I need to her to work but point being is variants are spurred by customer feedback and obviously money and lastly the new Bonneville is still so new that I don't fear it becoming long in the tooth because it is a throw back bike, designed perfectly with only a handful of years old. My 2 cents.
Last to note, I'm coming up to 25K miles on my 2018 T120 and the bike has been stellar. The warranty has saved me 2 times (Radiator and blown transmission). I have 2 more years of warranty and by the time it's over I will be pushing close to 90K miles. Bike is just a great all round do it all machine and I will be trading it in for the Speed Twin next go round.
I think you've completely missed the point of my video jedz. And I've got absolutely no idea what point your trying to put over. We are not talking about general contemporary motorcycles. If the t120 a triumph modern CLASSIC motorcycle was meant to evolve cosmetically, why base it on a 1959 model?
@@stuartfillingham7011 You did miss my point and I apologize for not coming across clear, it was 5 AM when I first posted. I come from the UJM Universal Japanese Motorcycle realm. The truth being is that no one made a high quality Standard/Universal motorcycle until the water-cooled Bonneville hit the floor. I see the new Bonneville line very much in the same light as the old UJMs like the; Suzuki GS, Kawasaki KZ, Honda CB etc... I really don't think Triumph is just trying to pedal the same old in different dress kits for the new Speed Twin (in example) has magnesium components in the engine to lighten the bike. Brembo brakes, aluminum swing arm, better suspension and yes other Cosmetics but pound for pound (and the Speed Twin has 50 less then the T120) they may have the same DNA and similar motors but they are different bikes... Of course this is in my opinion (and we can agree to disagree on that :) ). As for the Brakes I know my 2018 has the rotor bushings which eliminate the weird feel and sound. I have had a stellar experience with Triumph and having the transmission replaced (bits that broke were sent to Hinckley for analysis so they could improve the metallurgy of the components, so I was told) and the bike was in for a month but they threw in my 20K miles service in which saved me a few hundred $USD$. Triumph also reached out and told me about the harness recall which was a problem in the 2016, 2017 and I guess the 2018 models, I'm glad that Triumph is just now addressing this. So I get where your coming from that you fear Triumph is on a path of its past but I'm not sold on your statement for the bike is a very competitive model, very high quality, very modern in tech (I have cruise control on mine and you can't find that on the competition Standard bikes) and to say it's on the same path of sell the same old just makes me scratch my head. I say you would be right if this was 2025 and there wasn't a revision coming out or in sight (7-10 years is a common run for a model before receiving a revamp if we compare to the Japanese). But the complete model revamp is only 5 years old (3 for the 1200) and I still see that in that transition since new sub models are still coming out. The Scrambler 1200 is not like Scrambler 900 and is more ADV than anything. The Speeds Twin is what the T120 should have been IMHO for a guy like me, 30's, rides 30K miles a year and SPORT tourers but wants a standard up right motorcycle that is styled correctly (like a motorcycle) and not like some weird bastard child of a motorcycle and transformer (which is why I didn't want a Japanese standard bike this go round). I think Triumph is just finding their stride still. I say what I say because I have no brand loyalty and come from the UJM/ Japanese Standard market I can truthfully say the (nEW) Bonneville is a gem. A bike I very much am glad to have found and will continue to buy. If the I hit 45 and the Bonneville remains unchanged at that point I may walk away but that's a few bikes from now and will continue riding what I would say is the best damn motorcycle I have ever owned. Hope you better understand where I'm coming from, Wish you nothing but the best my friend. Cheers!
@@splodge5714 Yes Yamaha was behind in the stride but they made up ground fast in the 90's with the genesis engine (no pun intended)... Their triple wasn't great and their twin in the Viragos were riddled with many issues. I think the variation from triumph is just a test to see what is going to sell well in the market and what won't and you'll see the Bonneville line evolve from those sales results... All in all the Bonneville is a solid real world performer.
I've had similar concerns re the scramblers
Stuart, I do agree that there may be too many models based on the Bonnie. I studied quite a bit on which one I wanted, focusing mainly on the Street Twin. It was the style and size I wanted, but I had a specific idea what I wanted it to be. Enter the Street Cup. It had several of the cosmetic and functional upgrades I was looking to add to the Twin as standard such as bar end mirrors, fly screen, ace bar, seat cowl, and I liked the brighter yellow paint scheme. If I had bought the Twin and added all the upgrades I would have spent about 1500 more than the Cup cost. It was pretty much cut and dry at that point and my parts bin special got me a lot further to what I wanted. Sometimes these derivative models are a value when you look at them this way but I am afraid they can be confusing to the casual consumer. Hopefully with the introduction of some of the new models such as the new Scrambler and Speed Twin we will see some new direction from Triumph! I do hope customer service is given an overhaul as well. At my break-in service my dealership did not tighten the oil filter properly and over the next few rides I developed an increasingly worse oil leak. Imagine my surprise when cleaning the mess up when I was able to hand tighten the filter a full turn! I’ll be doing my own service from now on, thank you! Sorry for the long post but I really do have a lot of passion for the brand and I, like you, want the best for it. Cheers and thanks for all you do!
Well said old chap.
Hi stuart this could make way for enfield interceptor simple.. air cooled ..cheap ...seen my first RE in the metal today as a ex bonneville owner..im very impressed with it...cheers from dave..
I think the interceptor has already put the wind up Triumph and ruffled their strategies a bit. the power output and price was set to topple the street twin which is why triumph had to quickly re release it retuned with an extra 10HP!
stuart fillingham , I was in India on a RE 500 on a tour last Christmas/New Year, a great ride and interesting to meet young Indian riders on Interceptors expressing their pleasure in the bike. Personally I don’t like the upswept pipes, but they are gaining admirers here in Australia.
Well said!
A Bonneville is a Bonneville, choose the 'features' or configuration you like and go riding!
Personally I'm very glad they shed the spokes on the Speed Twin. It's 2019, and tubeless tires dominate the street market, so why not put tubeless spokes on the bikes!? Save money on manufacturing, splash an 'upgrade' and charge more.
It's what bothered me about suspension as well, the frame and engine are the same, for the most part, but can't seem to put quality adjustable suspension. Aftermarket prices are what they are, and bikes aren't a universal fit, I get that too. But I'm 6'2" 225lbs, and the stock suspension is horrible on the T100, and marginally better in the T120. I digress, I love my Triumph. Just a U.S. viewer expressing an echo of your opinion. Dealers here are still finding good success I think, but as you pointed out, that may begin to want in the next couple of years.
I agree with your view. Triumph needs to get it together. I am in the US market and there is a lot of talk about the declining number of Triumph Dealers. I am in Indiana and there is not a dealer in the entire state except for one listed on the Indiana-Michigan boarder. I understand it is the demands they are making on dealers causing them to leave the brand behind. Triumph needs to understand they are a niche in the US market no one would handle them as a primary line. I agree with you that size does not matter, but the Modern Classic line lends itself to the female and smaller stature man market. Not everyone wants to handle a 900 pound motorcycle. Deleting the Thunderbird was a big mistake in our market. The Modern Classics are great suburban bikes, but in this market you need a bike that can handle the interstate system. It is nice they have a limited version of the Rocket, but the Rocket was always a specialty bike. Triumph also needs to support the older model bikes as far as accessories. The accessories for the Rocket were gone before they had cleared the new inventory. I own 3 Triumphs and love what have done in the market up to this point, but you are correct in your assessment. Too much of a good thing can turn bad real quick.
In reality you could substitute the name Bonneville for Harley Davidson and it would be a fair comparison. Harley is not the giant that most think they are and employ about 6500 employees worldwide. The Japanese blew everyone away in the seventies, and you may recall that Harley went to a bowling machine company for a bailout (AMF). Fast forward to today and there are as many versions of the Softail line as there are variations of the Bonneville. Same marketing strategy, same bike with different bars, seats, bags, fairings, windshields etc. and of course they come in black or chrome. Quality and warranty issues are no better than Triumph. They too have a very loyal following here in the States as I’m sure the Brits are loyal to Triumph. I’ve owned many Harley’s and felt the same way about them as you feel about Triumph. I must tell you that I’ve been following your channel for quite some time and thoroughly enjoy it. So much so that I have recently purchased a T120. There is now a Honda, a Harley and a Triumph in my garage (my lady rides the Harley). One of the reasons I bought the Bonneville is that I have a reputable dealer where I live that also sells Triumphs as well as Honda’s and he has been very good about doing warranty work ( yes, even Honda’s aren’t completely sorted out). I’ve owned many motorcycles in my 50 years of riding and the modern ones all needed warranty work so Triumph is no different. Don’t despair, the Triumph name is a valuable commodity and even if the company fell on hard times, someone will pick up the ball and run with it, witness Indian, Royal Enfield and now recently Norton. Thank you again for producing a superior UA-cam channel, I look forward to all your new videos.
Another great video Stuart!
3:41 Obelix and a menhir 😂
Yes from all the issues I have heard about Triumph lately I definitely would not consider buying one. I I very interested in the Royal Enfield though
Great pts. TBF Harley has done this platform sharing during the 90s and 00s perhaps to their detriment never mind BMW with the GS and R9Ts and Ducati with the monsters and scramblers.
l,m 6.2 Feet tall, I get that from people, but I fell great on it. Wouldn’t change it for no other bike, l love it.😄👍🏼
I agree with you. They seem to be doing the same thing with the Tiger's. They stopped making some really good bikes and have gone to 2 or 3 lines that have far too many variants. I always thought it was wrong to stop the Trophy and the cruiser style bikes like the thunderbird. I would probably of had a Trophy by now as they are far better for being a blood runner than the bonneville. Saying that I love my Bonnie but it's not practical for blood running
its a slipper slope Jim. maybe they are looking to pull in some short term profit then sell it on?
The new 1200 speed twin is one of the best looking bikes i have ever seen.
I decided to get a second bike recently. I really wanted a Triumph however I decided to get a Yamaha because the bike had better performance and a better price. I picked the Yamaha up for almost half the priceof the specific model I was looking at. While Triumph prices aren't Harley expensive they are a tad bit high.
I couldn't agree more Jessica
Denial isn't just a river in Africa: You and your viewer nailed it one. I love my T120 Black, but it's 100% a (very nice) parts bin bike, My wife loves the Triumph Bobber Black (She rides a Harley Street Bob), so she may end up getting get one, but still, parts bin bikes all the same.
Harley is totally famous for the parts bin bike as well. Look at their current Softail line, which is 10!!! "models" deep all built on the same frame. I own a 2016 Dyna Lowrider S, liked the test rides on the new Softails and meh, not interested in buying one.
Dodge does the same thing with their Challenger muscle car, which has something like 6 different models and 4 different trim levels. It hasn't seen a chassis update in a decade. Of course I love the Challenger and bought one for my wife anyways, so like the T120 I bought, maybe parts bin does work to a point for a while...?
Hinkley's time to shine is the upcoming Rocket III. Us Yankees will snap that bike up in a heart beat if it meets performance expectations and is not a crap quality machine. Consider the Hyabusa is out of production now, so the RIII has a heck of an opportunity to rule the muscle bike scene if the Triumph team executes well.
Cheers!
Hi Stuart ,
Hope you doing good .
I have got the cockpit fairing installed on my Thruxton R and it looks fantastic .
The next upgrade I want is of a new exhuast . Can you advice which is the best for Thruxton r as there are many available like V&H , Remus , predator etc.
Good Day.
Pranay Arora
bang on, been saying the same to A1 Moto Triumph dealership for the past 2/3 years. Real concern about a very bloated line up for no obvious reason. They should have made a slim line up but with order-able modular options when you are ordering a new bike..that would have been a winner of an idea...the way they are going about things reeks of pandering to the sunday hipster riding crowd. They won't be around forever, we will! Also it struck me that when you look at the technology you get in say the street triple, and then consider how much more you pay for a Bonnie, which doesn't have the same level of tech in it re brakes and suspension, that further evidences my point about who the bonnie range is aimed at. I will stick with my carbed AC variant....beast of a bike, sounds like a biplane, love it.
Stuart, I think you are 100 percent correct in what you describe, I echo " London John " sentiment, I love my Triumph 2018 800 Xrx, with every extra on it apart from Satnav, its such a lovely bike compared to the original incarnation, yes you are correct about Bmw there rationalisation of there model range has been successful, but still has not done anything about there high pricing, a concern I have about Triumph as well, your bike looks beautiful in the videos, regards.
Spot on matey! 🙏
Might be interesting to see a factory model that's extremely basic just frame engine running gear as "naked" as possible allowing the buyer to finish it as they see fit instead of replacing parts you've paid for.. twice .
Hi Stuart, I just graded up to a Speed Twin, which is individually for me the next step in the Bonneville series. What I think is that customizing a base model surely is more expensive than buying it from the OEM. I got a very good price for my T120 but that might be a specifica of the German market. I share a lot of your doubts, but on the other hand diversification is the price paid to what we call „Zeitgeist“, look at Ducati, Kawasaki or BMW too (r Nine t, r nine t pure) Whatsoever great video from you
for many customising is the reason for buying the bike Manfred, its not necessity its done for the enjoyment.
stuart fillingham That‘s surely true, but to take aThruxton and modify it in direction SpeedTwin would overcharge me, so we got an idiom here that says: the one man‘s owl is the other ones nightingale“ :-))
A truth pill from Stuart.
Hi Stuart. Pretty much the conclusion I came to a year ago. How it makes you feel is what matters which is why the Street Twin got swapped for a Monster 797. Nothing wrong with a parts bin special if the parts are decent and work together harmoniously.
Seems like the new Scramblers have been well received though, so good for Triumph in that respect.
Stuart, Thank you very much for providing the content you do. You are a natural story teller and I have a feeling that even though Triumph is a subject I am very interested in as a Bonnie owner myself, I would be watching your content even if it were about glass menagerie's which I could care less about.
The Bonneville is special and by saturating the market with so many variants I feel resale value and the fun of customizing the Bonnie would/is going to diminish.
Thank you sir. Let's hope the executives see this video. Well stated.
Well thought and well spoken and I think you have a good point here. :-)
Well said Stuart so true
Adds a bit of variety and keeps the price down. Still plenty of different types of bike in triumph range.
Please explain that David youve lost me. They are built in Asia from Asian made parts but are 10 to 20% more expensive than similar sized Japanese bikes. How is it keeping the price down?
I watched this early this AM before work and you struck a chord with me. I too have had a nagging feeling that all is not well at Triumph. Here in the US, the dealer network is not the best. My understanding is that the previous head of the company here in the states demanded that dealers erect a stand alone showroom as opposed to sharing the sales floor with other manufacturers. The reality is that unlike in Europe where bikes are every day transportation in many countries, bikes here are used primarily as a weekend hobby. There are those of us who do ride every day but we’re the outliers. As a result of his demands, many dealers gave up the franchise as the cost vs return wasn’t worth their expenditure. Another issue for us Yanks is the introduction and then removal of models that received good reviews but didn’t fly off the sales floor. When my arthritic right knee forced me to sell my Yamaha sport bike I bought a used 1600 T-Bird. It’s a great bike, needed some better rear shocks right out of he gate but overall it is a very good cruiser. Triumph did a redesign update in 2012 I believe, which improved comfort and handling but then a few years later dropped it from the market. The Trophy SE is another model that they invested money developing and then turned around and pulled it off the market. In both cases the dealers took thousands off the price to get them off the floor and out of inventory. You know what that does to the resale value of either of these two models. I’d be lucky to get a third of what I paid for my bike if I tried to sell it. Fortunately I plan on keeping it. As you know, Triumph just introduced two versions of a scrambler Bonneville, both of which got rave reviews in the moto mags but if my nearest dealer is now two hours away, am I seriously going to consider buying one? Not likely. Unless Triumph improves its presence here in the states it will be relegated to niche status, not much different than Aprilia or Moto Guzzi.
Might be fun to give friend's bike's reviews Comparing to the Bonnie?
Price quality cust.svc. handling.. switch bikes take a ride enjoy an adult beverage have a chat about the riding experience.
Idea's are like .. everyone has one.
Ride safe.
Yes, you can tell by the same old mirrors.
Interesting video Stuart iv,e a T120 Diamond ltd edition on order, just another T120 with a few bits of added chrome! supposed to be a run of 950 bikes? just wondering if they will hold their price in the second hand market ?
I didn't know you played guitar!
Triumph should release a new model called the Triumph Brexit. It would have no release date and no one at the factory would agree on the spec, so would have completely random parts fitted.
Lol that sounds like most of the current range!