Are Women Just D*ckless Men? | Peter Boghossian & Sall Grover
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- Опубліковано 2 сер 2024
- Sall Grover is the Founder and CEO of “Giggle,” a social networking app “designed by women, for women.” She is currently battling a lawsuit from a trans-woman who calls himself “Tickle.” Tickle was kicked off the app in 2021 because he is a man.
The outcome of this lawsuit (Tickle vs. Giggle) will impact women’s rights and protected spaces in Australia.
Peter Boghossian spoke with Sall about the fundamental distinction between the sexes, why preferred pronouns must be rejected, free speech and cognitive liberty, the meaning of progress, and the future of the transgender fad. According to Sall, “women are not dickless men” and have the right to exclude men from their sports, prisons, and social apps.
Tickle vs. Giggle
www.fedcourt.gov.au/services/...
quillette.com/2023/09/15/sex-...
Find Sall on X / salltweets
Chapters
0:00 Intro
1:33 Attractiveness & activism
4:20 Sall’s thoughts on transgenderism
8:35 Impacts of biological men in women’s spaces
16:15 Does surgery change the argument?
20:00 Biological realities
23:20 Preferred pronouns
31:45 Why people should care
36:35 Sexual differences
41:55 Muddied language in trans conversation
44:30 Drew Barrymore clip
50:55 Trans & sports
57:20 Trans issues in a larger context
1:05:30 What’s next
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Looking forward to this discussion!
What's depressing is - the women going along w this lie. We are handing over all the rights we fought for.
Plus we can bench more
@@ransakreject5221 Yes.I know this.
Very well done Peter
Sall Grover is fab. Women get kicked off lesbian dating apps for specifying female only. When we complain the TRA say 'set up your own apps if you don't like the rules', and so we do and then this happens. She is spot on when she says they want the female category (and the lesbian category). It's all about validation for the TRA, not dignity, safety or fairness. That's why third spaces and categories don't do it for them. She's also spot on when she says nothing will ever be enough.
She is correct in saying there is no
Pleasing the woke - this is what many liberals still don’t seem to understand .
Occasionally when butch lesbians hit on me ( which feels just like a heterosexual man doing so ) i am a polite no.TRAs are idiots but it must be a very exceptional reason to exclude on the basis of sex only, one reasonable example would be an advertised lesbian party for the purposes of meeting , dating, hook ups.
A networking app is literally the modern equivalent to the men's only clubs where business ,networking was done which were forced to open to women of the basis of sex discrimination did you forget this ?
Exactly - the more exclusive the space, the more they want access to it.
@@lavienestpasunlongfleuvetr2559 Sure just like the "sex based medical care that GCs insist must be theirs alone by DNA that i need for 2 annual health checks ( because its an orphan disease ) that biological males don't normally need or are you referring to AGP males that try to affirm themselves because no one would ever see them as females ?
If i needed affirmation in a damaged way i would sleep with dozens of heterosexual men on tinder like many women do.
" She's also spot on when she says nothing will ever be enough." Like this ? Forcing these men's mental health sheds open to women by attaching funding to them from the government ? www.health.gov.au/our-work/mens-sheds/about-mens-sheds#purpose . Both women & men sent me many examples like this from around the feminists dominated governments around the world whilst i was still allowed on Twitter.
While listening to this conversation, I just realised that "Trans Genocide" should be added to Peter's "Woke in Plain English" glossary. They are not using the term to mean the systematic extermination and murder of a group, or anything like that. What they mean is simply: refusing to accept somebody else's ideas about themselves as being a member of the opposite sex, or of indeterminate sex. In their self-obsessed, catastrophising way, they see refusing to comply with their pretence as being akin to "genocide". They are FKN crazy!
I disagree. I think they really believe that we're on that path. They think it's Germany in 1930 and they're the Jews. Part of it is a victimhood fantasy because they're all such drama queens, but I really think a lot of them actually believe that Sall and Helen Joyce are going to gas them all given the chance. It's insane, of course, but their whole ideology is about believing fervently that the opposite of truth is true, and all actual truth is false.
Now I know what that lunatic was he yelling at Peter and the Sign Guy in that video meant. Language creep happened so slowly that people don't realize it has happened until it's too late if it all.
It's because refusing to pretend to believe that "trans women ARE women" literally IS "erasing trans people".
Because "trans" is fundamentally different to ALL other minority demographics- Black people STAY black, whether you acknowledge out race, or not. Women STAY women, whether you "validate" them, or not. Gay people STAY same-sex attracted, even if every single straight person denied that same-sex attracted people exist... Because all the above are defined by OBJECTIVE, EVIDENCE-BASED REALITY.
But even according to their own ideology, "being trans" has ZERO basis in empirical evidence (because "gender is just a social construct").
Which means that "being trans" is like Tinkerbell's fairy-dust that Peter Pan uses to fly; It ONLY exists, to the extent that people BELIEVE it to exist.... Stop believing in Tinkerbell's fairy-dust, and Peter Pan hurtles into the concrete and snaps his neck... But stop believing in TRANS fairy-dust, and "trans women ARE women" CEASES to be (supposedly) super-duper -true... And we're left with a bunch of mutilated men in dresses, and young girls with mastectomy-scars, and artificially-induced hormone imbalances...
That's why "gender" ideology NEEDS to be authoritarian, censorship-obsessed, and desperate for the power to control the speech of non-believers, in a way that no other minority group has even come CLOSE to...
Because belief in (sex-independent) "gender" is a RELIGIOUS belief, who can't ADMIT to being a religion- So they can't openly endorse "faith", like traditional religions do (but they still share the same 100% absence of evidence with religions- As well as the "but it FEELS true, to me!!" evidence-standard....)
So all they CAN do, is use brute force, any method available, bullying, guilt-trips, social pressure, threats, even the law of possible, to COMPEL everyone to at least PRETEND to believe that a man in a dress is "REALLY a woman", in some mystical, 100% undetectable sense...
This is the danger of beliefs without evidence (like sex-independent "gender"); They are EXTREMELY fragile, and so often require authoritarian control, to sustain....
yes, your comment is spot on. as if not referring to them as women would actually kill them.
I get the sense that they also consider doing away with GAC as part of the "genocide." Because less medicalized gender dysphoric people would exist, so we're essentially deleting them via prevention in their minds, though to be fair, every little bit of it is all in the minds.
Some men who want to be women or present as women and be accepted as women object to the fact that being a woman is something they cannot achieve by force of will or any other means. It infuriates them.
They have come up to the brick wall of reality, but they are regularly flattered by the media and encouraged in their delusions.
For example, Caitlin Jenner on the cover of Vogue.
It's okay if they are women in their own minds. Controlling other people's minds, thoughts, words, is always unacceptable.
Exactly!
You are referring to a thing called narcissistic AGP males that so called gender critical women conflate as one of their many misrepresentations as being all "tranwomen"
Oh, they hate it when you remind them that 'neo-vagina' has absolutely nothing in common with an actual vagina because a vagina is not only a hole in the body ... it's a full, complete, perfect organ that no doctor can recreate - definitely not in a male body.
Once you use preferred pronouns, it makes it difficult to say "SHE can't use the ladies toilet" it makes it impossible to speak the truth.
My take on it is preferred pronouns lead to preferred pro-nonce and that is not a thing I want in society.
@@robdielemans9189Are you saying pro-pronoun adoption/acceptance leads to pro-pedophilia?
2:14 You made Sall blush!
But I think jealousy is a huge part of the animus.
That's the idea.
Look up Yuri Bezmenov's Ideological Subversion lectures. He's an ex KGB defector who explicitly outlines all this and how destroying language and thereby thought undermines objective truth and public trust in insitutions and each other, especially when we can no longer even engage in conversations and discourse because we cannot even agree on the same definitions of basic words.
This destabilises a nation and makes it easier to conquer and collapse without firing a shot.
It's all part of a wider systematic dismantling of the West.
They deliberately want you speak untruth because then the left know they control you entirely.
What a gorgeous, smart woman. I feel the more beautiful the woman is, the more the TRAs hate her, because she is exactly what they want to be and never will.
Sad, but true. It's not like they'd be nice to the unattractive women, either, but they won't get this level of vitriol.
@@pinxelated2799 Oh you are social constructionists as well 👏. Feminists have always been far more ant-science than Christians
Yes emphasis on "feel" hmmm , not much else going on
Yet, some women fighting this dangerous ideology are ridiculed because of being old, « ugly » etc. It’s very much a patriarchal reflex to attack women in their appearance. Nothing new
There are tons of trans women wayyy hotter than this broad.
It's refreshing to see a woman going hard against this delusion.
Yes but I’ve noticed as soon as they start questioning the narrative they are immediately thrown into the TERF box and shunned by most progressives. This is the problem . I mean, what good are these conversations if they are only taking place with people that have been black balled..?
Many of us think this but many of us are in fear I’d saying it. Men are not women period.
There are many, it's not as rare as YT anti feminists would have you believe.
Part of the issue Rod, is if a woman talks about it, they get bullied, threatened, attacked, both verbally and physically, lose their jobs and sometimes arrested. If a man talks about it, although there are some exceptions ie Billboard Chris, Graham Linehan they are pretty much OK.
I like men and have a very supportive male partner but men will never understand the constant awareness however low grade that women have to have about their own vulnerability. There's a behaviour we develop not always consciously to try and protect ourselves, always having your keys ready when you go to a door rather than standing and finding your keys, thinking about the time or location of an event so you don't find yourself alone and/or in the dark. Protecting your drink if you're out. Making sure your footware will allow you to run, your outfit isn't too revealing, not opening the door to unknowns. It's so systemic some won't even realise they do these things. However you try to protect yourself there is always a possibility you could get sexually harassed or assaulted. I was on the shop floor at work, plenty of people around when a regular male customer whispered I want to cum all over your hair, repeatedly. 🤮 And when I discussed it with my two male managers, they laughed, right up until I asked them would they still be laughing if it was said to their wife/mother.
I have experienced dv, SH, SA and r@pe in my life and while it doesn't rule my life it absolutely does make me aware of my environment and who I let in it.
I myself have been “going hard” against this for 17 years now and I know many others. Radical feminists began pushing back against this 30+ years ago. The problem was that men only started listening when other men started talking.
This young woman gave me something to think about when she said that calling trans women (biological men) women pronouns is disrespectful to women.
You could really feel offended and disrespected if someone, talking about another someone that is NOT you, uses a specific language that you dont agree with?
Really?
@@dimercamparini I never could call a man a woman but have used those pronouns in referring to trans women because of political correctness. However, the entire movement has gotten so out of hand that I regained my senses and I don't agree with doing even that anymore.
that's exactly right. thank you for hearing that.
@@rodb66 Just to clarify my position: I use pronouns based on MY perception and what comes naturally from my mind...not what's asked by others...and not out of curtesy or politeness...
If my brain perceive you as a "she" even if I know that deep down you are a male...i will use "she"...I would be "forcing" myself otherwise (paradoxically)...and that is not good...
That is just MY strategy...everyone can do whatever they want...and no laws should decide about this topic or pass judgments and fines if you dont respect a certain "rule".
@@dimercamparini I can understand that.
"The actual Nazis have had very little pushback" - that quote says it all
I *really* respect Sall. I gave her some pushback on Twitter when she first dipped her toes in the water and had more of a 'be kind' stance and didn't have a full understanding of the issues. We had a good chat via DM at one point, and she really impressed me. Once she saw the scope of what she was dealing with she stood up without hesitation and has held a firm line ever since. Also, without her, there wouldn't be the absolutely ridiculous Tickle vs. Giggle court case. I'm sorry she has this to deal with, but you couldn't write that headline, could you?
I've absolutely loved her in Twitter spaces ... alas my account is suspended as I offended the fine sensibilities of a male prancing around calling himself a woman.
Really should encourage men to have clubs where women are not allowed so that they can exclude women from networking & politics...Oh that's not legal because it is discriminatory on the basis of sex . Were do you hold the line and how ? At risk of death like the many shot in western labor riots ? You're dreaming .
@@insidiousmischka I am not on Twitter due to offending a 4th wave intersectional feminist who said that she lost weight when she had her last abortion , of course i called her psychotic maybe i should have left it at evil and been allowed to stay stayed on Twitter . The intersectional game was fun tho easy to trump when you are higher on their stupid intersectionality map....streams of feminism 🙄
Great to see open minds at work..
@@thinkingoutloud7425 Odd because i see a narrative by a philosopher & a feminist , along those direct lines ( You only need to see the tick box commenters )
Ive watched SO much about this type of topic and this is the first time ive heard someone say that the fight for trans wo(men) is actually a survival mechanism because its *safer* for women to throw other women under the bus rather than men. Very interesting this lady is sharp.
I've often wondered why the main proponents of this are women, and this makes sense. We have this innate need to keep things calm. So for many women, this means agreeing with the orthodoxy.
@@neepers22 there are also women who hate or fear men so much that they want them castrated, literally.
It is a well known phenomenon that a group of people who view themselves as oppressed and powerless will turn upon each other rather than confront their oppressor- this is well recognised in nursing for instance.
Wow … holy shit you’re right
22:30 Very well said! These are exactly the points I stress when I refuse to use people's "preferred pronouns". I will not engage in self-inflicted cognitive dissonance, and I have no intention of hanging around people who want to intimidate/harass me into admiring the emperor's new clothes.
Calling them their preferred name is difficult enough for me. My brother is a trans-woman and my sister claims non-binary. I won't refer to either of them by their legally changed names. The most respectful I'll give them is not referring to them by their birth names when they're around.
Perfect reference there. The emperors new clothes.
That is exactly what it comes down to: ceding power to someone who wants you to share his or her delusion.
good reference!
I have no problem with people using their preferred pronouns as long as they don’t have a problem with me using my pronouns. My pronouns are he or she. Generally if I’m talking to someone I use their name and not refer to them by a pronoun. When I mention someone to another I’ll use their name as a point of reference then use the pronoun I think is appropriate and as long as the person I’m talking to understands who I’m referring to then I guess language works. I don’t put up with that person trying to correct me.
The woke crack me up.
"Having a vagina or a uterus doesn't make you a woman!"
... But... wearing lipstick and a dress does 🤣
What a clown world we're living in.
Lmaoo. Yea. 😂😂
🤣🤣🤣 cray cray
@@truthloveandhappiness7767😂😂😭😭
Women are just surgically created, dysfunctional, somewhat suitable holes for fornication that wear makeup.
yep and just squeeze some ketchup down there.."Hey look I had my period"
I am autistic I have worked with and been friends with so many people with high functioning autism. I have watched services pushed them to transition. I have had enough. I would have been transed as a kid. I thought I was an alien or a girl trapped in a boys body. Mum would’ve knifed them though if they gender affirmed my confusion as a childhood and trauma I experienced.
I am sick of watching the autistic community be taken advantage of and transitioned. I know people still stuck in it, I know undiagnosed autistic people who don’t see psychologists and think they must be trans and have no idea what is involved surgery wise, this guy is gay and always has been and is 42. Had sever childhood trauma and sexual abuse from his mother and never dealt with it and still see her. It makes me so upset I am actually watching ppl medically hurt themselves people I love and care about
STOP so many detransitioned kids I see has now been diagnosed with autism or is now being tested for it and it was ignored and they cut of their breasts
Unfortunately there are so many kids who have ASD,ADHD childhood trauma, depression and other mental illnesses that are being more confused by this ideology. It’s so sad. And such a good reason why this rubbish should not be taught in schools!
@@missymc1547 I so agree. There is absolutely NO place for this in schools. I reread what I wrote I was so upset it’s pretty poorly written but you get the picture. Transing and pushing this on kids is so dangerous especially when they have trauma, abuse, vulnerabilities, neurodiversity or just any kid really. We did sex Ed in year 9. Basic biology and how to stay safe sexually. That was the main point. But that was year 9!!!! Not primary school kids. We all laughed and giggled and loved it and learnt a lot as we blushed, giggled at drawings of genitals and made jokes with the teacher and learnt about safe healthy sex and boundaries. Today I would be so confused in schools if I was a kid. I feel so sorry for parents who are trying to fight this. I’d prefer them spend the time they do on pushing this on kids on teaching them about mental health, life skills blah blah or just having a game of kick ball would be a better idea hahaha
At last another autistic person like me who sees the reality that autistic people are being abused, mutilated and sterilized. Every counsellor and diagnostic service pushes this stuff on neurodiverse people.
Sall has got to be my favourite person interviewed by Peter so far! The world needs to hear more logical common sense backed with straight forward intelligent answers that allows a 'take no sh*t' approach to this trans Ideology madness. Keep speaking up for women Sall. We are right behind you! Hopefully bump into you in the near future if I move back to the Gold Coast🏖️🇦🇺💖
Cant remember who said this tongue in cheek but, trans rights are men’s rights.
Radical lesbian feminists that hate men started it .
Even if this bullshit were true, what is bad about "men`s rights" if there is such a thing as "women`s rights"? If there is such a thing as "sex based rights", are they only for women? Or should women be generally benefited and privileged over men?
Maybe I'm too tired right now but can you explain the joke?
As mentioned in the video, trans men(bio women) are more agreeable and aren’t exactly encroaching in on men’s spaces.
So the joke points to the irony that the only rights that are effectively expanded here are men; into women’s spaces.
@@DMR_MAK The real irony here is not being able to understand why this appears to be the case from the outside looking in thru the narrow minded "gender critical lens" 🤣🤣🤣. How many transmen do you actually know personally that have talked to you about this ?
Peter I normally wouldn't have a massive interest in topics like this but I want to offer my appreciation for the way you enter these conversations with a sense of curiosity that I share so thank you.
It is NOT a sense of curiosity, but a lame performance of "Socrates." He is just dumb. lol
The pronoun debate is an excellent example of how to attempt to make a group of people submit to a change not needed or appropriate. It's a form of logical, cruel debate that is obviously intended to make women continually justify our need for existence. It's figuratively punching down on females. The fact that we are still pleading our right to our identity, biology speaks volumes to our position in society. This bastardization of language is an imposed political change, not even a societal development and yet that's rarely considered or mentioned as important.
Exactly
So many important womens issues sidelined for this nonsense
I’m so fascinated by this all
It’s so regressive
What a time we are living in
#SaveWomensSpaces & #HomesAreAlsoWomensSpaces
Social constructionist
They changed the language, and then the law. The Gender Equality Act privileges "gender," and the sex-based rights of women have been effectively eradicated.
Helen Joyce said something like this too "I am not just a man with a uterus popped in"
Since we men have nipples, it's hard to square a positive answer to the titular question. We are the ones who must differentiate ourselves from the baseline. So, what do we do? Force women aside with our "feelings", something no man should have "pride" in doing. A mockery of a travesty of a sham.
"I slowly became aware that what we were talking about here was an intensely linguistic movement.... There isn't a sense in which a man can become a woman except linguistically." -- Helen Joyce.
I love Sall's tweets on X - what a spitfire! She just NAILS people 😊
She didn't always, but once she understood the issues, she was single minded and focused.
Or blocks them when she fails over & over
@@gb5663 Don't be silly you can't change your DNA
I'm really glad she brought up the reason for not using these pronouns as a courtesy. That's been essentially my view for a while. Using them as a courtesy, if the speaker does not agree with the ideology or all the conclusions that come from it, puts the speaker at an automatic cognitive disadvantage. Since, for example, I referred to a male as "she" I automatically start from the point of having to explain why I'm saying someone that I supposedly accept as "she" should not use, say, a women's bathroom. Well, then I have to explain, "I say that as a courtesy, but for the purpose of this conversation...", etc. If I change only for the purpose of the debate, then I've broken from my usual courtesy just to debate, and am apparently being disagreeable.
Never had to ask ever, everyone has always sexed me as female & called me miss ,she, her or used my name . So easy 😉
Why shouldn't a trans woman use the women's bathroom?
The problem with the conversation of male and women guards in prisons is that there are more male prison guards than female...thats the issue so we cant be picky...
There are also far more male prisoners than women...
Almost anyone can be a prison guard. Unlike sex, your profession isn't set at birth.
@@dimercamparini Brother that is true in fact tge system is overloaded with huge problems that many arent solved...with guards having to work overtime to fill the time that others dont want to put in...and the majority are men....how do I know have 4 froends work in correctional facility that have to pull their weight doing mandatory overtime to fill that gap that many people just dont want to do....
I've always wondered that same 1st question too. I've always thought that jealousness is part of the TRAs' issues.
They seethe with envy. We would know this very plainly even if we couldn’t see them saying it quite candidly in their online forums.
I think jealousy is huge. If you ever end up in a more protracted 'discussion' with these individuals, they always - ALWAYS - attack your looks. It's a rule.
It’s absolute envy. Because they could never fool everyone into believing they are female.
It is at the root of this ideation for many with cross sex ideation.
Without my naming women’s names, notice who trans activists do not do that to…
She IS attractive and those men deeply envy they can never look like her. Peter is sort of right here.
Good on you Sall Grover.
Thank you for speaking out and refusing to back down.
Thanks Peter too.
Because women's lives matter.
God damn who is this woman! She's right on the money.
Peter, we've been at this a long time. Can't we just hear what she has to say without these "questions" that most rational people already know the answer to? Trans "women" hate us because they want to replace us. They think they're women but find out that most men don't want anything to do with them.
*"Women siding with trans-activists are like chickens rooting for Colonel Sanders."*
I wanted to listen to Sall but half way through I gave up. I gave up because Peter does such an awful job interviewing. His first question was preposterous and his constant interruptions made the whole thing untenable.
I SO agree!! Peter’s many interruptions were so rude to Sal!
Go Sall!!!! Been watching and cheering for her for so long. Love a fellow Aussie. You are so tough Sall!! Stay strong always we are with you. I know you will though anyway haha I’ll meet u at a protest one day I hope and have stars in my eyes
What a brilliant conversation....you two are wonderful compassionate intelligent human beings...in a mad world.
26:11 i think the reason we shouldnt is because its a lie and anything built on lies always fall through
Its also, ultimately, disrespectful of trans identified people and anyone suffering from gender dysphoria or any other identity disorders. Its harmful to everyone, including and especially trans identifying people.
Once again, if genitalia doesn't make you a woman, then heels and makeup and a dress sure as hell doesn't either. Sex and gender are not two totally separate things and never have been. You can not transcend your sex or your gender whichever one you want to call it.
You can, but only by not making it the entire focus of your identity nor by how its reality impacts your experience.
Yes and that’s what Matt Walsh alluded to - the progressives can’t even define what a woman even is. They still can’t - they are that trapped by their ideology
Exactly sex & gender are connected. " gender is the software to sex " Heather Heying evolutionary biologist . Modern sexuality, brain research validates the "discarded" theory of sexual invert that a particular kind of twisted "gay " activists man hates . There is a reason butch lesbians when then occasionally hit on me it FEELS just like a heterosexual man hitting on me . Homosexuality is NOT just about same sex attraction...the big lie
Do you confirm a person's genitalia before you think of or talk about them as a man or woman?
@@MoonshineH Lesbians don't , got invited to a XX gym
Sal is a brilliant woman and 100% correct in saying women prisons should only have female guards etc this would be real progress x
47:15 The answer to Peters question is simple. Submission is a survival instinct, for any one physically weaker than another.
Drew having done this with several guests prior to DMs guest appearance, including her female guests made it clear it was just an example of celebrity worship.
What a ridiculous question he opened with. What is he saying? That all other gc women are ugly? The misogyny never hides.
It's a very male perspective.. He has interviewed other women who are 'attractive' but not asked them this one. It was embarrassing for Sale for a personal question to be asked of her; I would be inclined to think that this is not a serious interviewer if I were her
Hard for him not to ask. As she is so beautiful - not in a superficial way. In the same way that liz Hurley undoubtedly is. And also very intelligent too. Just sayin’
Great interview
I thought so too, but it then seemed that it was a devil's advocate type of question.
I've never referred to a transwomen as a she they will always be a man PRESENTING as a woman. I use their name.
With the name "Tickle vs. Giggle" you'd think it's a hilarious lawsuit and not a serious case of a person trying to impose his delusion on others.
"Your Honor, plaintiff will enter into evidence this rubber chicken and this bottle of seltzer."
The name is apt because gender ideology is also laughably ridiculous.
First time I've ever listened to this lady , she explains everything so clearly . Another truth warrior.
Great interview - Sall is whip-smart and she has a powerful, coherent answer for every aspect of this ideological nonsense.
Women shouldn't work in mens prisons either. I worked in a mens prison. Most of those introducing contraband were women and some even were getting pregnant by the inmates. Can't have the standard go one way.
As far as getting in trouble for misgendering an inmate, we had one come in before I left. He'd bounced around a few different facilities and officers and staff at these other facilities did lose their jobs for misgendering this man.
@@rachelforshee6014 It's called sex
❤ You will always be my Grievance Studies hero!
I was going to college when these studies happened. I remember pre study I was like “wow, I must be really dumb because these people sound like they should be getting a disability check” but then I knew it was true
Nonstop new focused questions. Thank you. I like that you didn’t find any need to show agreement or disagreement but just kept the questions coming.
The problem with saying that these people deny science, is that they say WE are denying science. Science has been co-opted by THE MESSAGE so how do you fight against that?
I’m gonna take a guess and say you probably watch The Critical Drinker? I could be wrong but that’s what “The Message” reminded me of.
With better science, that cannot be refuted.
And with open debate. Free speech. Free press.
@@phasis That is, "actual science" instead of junk science.
You have to break the cult of Scientism's hold on the American psyche.
The scientific ideal is not wicked, but it doesn't exist in the real world. In the real world, funding, agendas, egos, intellectual fashions, power, and group think drive the production and dissemination of scientific knowledge. And yet if person A says "Take a walk outside! The people living on the street are almost all drug addicts," while person B says "Actually, only 2% of the homeless population are drug addicts," the "responsible citizen" knows that they should find person B more convincing, even if it's contrary to their experience. But why? Because he said a number? The public is conditioned to wrongly believe that person B not only did not pull that number of their you-know-what, but also that if they are citing a study, well....that's as good as truth. Person B has science, and even flawed science is better than no science! There's a serious imbalance here. The average person grasps the limitations of anecdotal evidence, but they're oblivious to the limitations of science, as it's practiced.
phasis says the answer is better science. This naive view assumes that the opposition will play fair. But what if they just falsify the data, as was recently discovered of FL professor Eric Stewart, whose fraudulent criminology work for which he was fired has deeply entrenched in the American mind, a belief in systematic racism within the American criminal justice system? You say you sampled 10,000 participants and found X? Well WE sampled 100,000 participants with flawless methodology and found Y! Go ahead and try to get the funding to reproduce our result. What we need is a more sober view of scientific knowledge in general, that doesn't give it the benefit of the doubt. Because the old alliance of throne and altar didn't go away with the rise of secularism. It just swapped the frock for a lab coat, and we need to be cognizant of that.
@@AMikeStein yessir
The more I think about it, the more I think your opening question was really crass. Sall Grover is embroiled in a court case (it would have been great to hear more about this) because she, a lesbian woman, wanted to create an app for just women - i.e. an app that excluded straight men who pose as 'lesbians' to letch over women. And here you are, a straight bloke, going straight in to ask a lesbian 'do they hate you because you are so pretty?'
The TRA hate SG because she will not entertain these straight letchy blokes on her female only app.
As Sall pointed out, they also hate women who do not bother with femininity worse than those who do. They do not think it is fair that women who do nothing more than have a wash and get dressed before leaving the house (like men do) are still considered women when they are trying so hard to do femininity but everyone still knows they are men. They think womanhood is a prize for trying hard and that they therefore have a greater claim to it than women who don't bother doing all that stuff.
I am really pleased to live in T**F Island where the pushback against gender identity ideology is led by feminists who have no time for that kind of nonsense. We are a sex class with specific needs and interests. The pretty ones and the ugly ones, the old and the young, all races and all abilities. We know men like to divide us into the pretty ones and the ugly ones, give us scores out of 10 and dismiss any of us who are deemed past the age of f*ckability (any woman over about 2 1/2 decades younger than Peter).
Feminists stand together and fight for all women's interests and needs, even the women we hate, and regardless of what men think of us. That is how we will win.
Sall is not a lesbian. She has a male partner, and is a mother.
Her app is not for dating, it's just a social network for women.
I do agree that it was a pretty awkward way for Boghossian to start the conversation though.
Appearance is an important aspect of the trans debate. Plus Sall said she was open to any questions.
Sall is amazing, strong and thoughtful. I wish her the best outcome in her legal battle. If it were actually possible for humans to change their chromosomes, Downs Syndrome babies wouldn't be aborted, they'd simply be "assigned non Downs at birth" and voila!
What a glorious point you make! I’m gonna spread that….
I didn't need to change DNA it's literally irrelevant . Secondary sexual characteristics were more than enough to live as a women . Have a nice day selective abortion supporter .
It's so pleasant to hear two people with a sense of reality talking about reality! Never thought I would long for something like this outside of a church or sect, etc.... Thx!
I really respect the way you converse w people. If I understand you (please correct me if am misunderstanding you) you use preferred pronouns w people as a courtesy.
My question is, in what other situations would you do that? If a white person was in black face would you call them black? Why or why not?
She is 100% right. The *medical profession* should be the ones being honest and saying you can't change sex. It shouldn't be up to someone with an app, or a podcast, to do that. Its absurd.
It's inconceivably stupid and unpleasant that Sall is being put through what she's dealing with simply cause a man in a dress is so desperate to be validated that he will take it to high court.
I'm male and I just cannot understand that people think that a man can become a woman.
Peter goin hard w that VERY first question 😂
Isn't he married?
@namnack I think so. I mean I font think he crossed any major lines but it was clumsy especially since it was the very first question
@@DavidThackerMusic It was extremely clumsy, indeed. I think I know what he tried to do there, though. But women tend to get very confused about the juxtaposition of a compliment and a sarcastic remark.
It was a great first question and Sal answered it with great charity.
@@DavidThackerMusicyeah I was honestly puzzled and surprised that he came out with that comment . Not a good moment .. peters mind seemed a little frazzled in this video
I hope motherhood is going well for you Sall. Apart from this fight you never falter on bow down to. I hope life as a mother and not a birthing person is dandy.
Dr Paul McHugh of Johns Hopkins would be a great guest for Peter. He has studied transgenderism and worked with transgender people since the 70’s.
The visual style here is really great. Good job with all the iterations to arrive here.
😅
It is really difficult to deny physical reality. I am in a class with a non-binary and when I am stressed and in front of people, I can't remember fake pronouns. I say the truth and person is offended. Then I am being told that I shouldn't say sorry because then they have to forgive me. It puts the onerous on the person to forgive me for forgetting the person's made up pronouns. But I start to think that this person is putting the onerous on me to remember pronouns that make no sense. Why is that okay?
It's not OK.
It sounds like they're engineering a situation to put you and others in a position where you will always be wrong and yet somehow they're the victim and get to gaslight you.
I don’t envy you being in this position. Clearly unfair and nonsensical. If you don’t feel you can speak out without repercussions and you must stay in the class (assuming you are in a university setting) can you just use the persons name and not their pronouns?
Another group of people who don’t get guff for not using the pronouns are Muslims, they are able to use the religious card in so saying “I won’t use your pronouns because my religion doesn’t allow it” and no one says a peep.
I know that’s not a “stand up” answer and maybe there’s another solution depending on how much you can speak the truth.
On the other hand, if this is a class that you can speak out and advocate for free speech, refute compelled speech and simply discount gender ideology, have at it. Stand your ground. You might be surprised at who supports you. Good luck hon ❤
I like the point Sall makes about using pronouns. Using them out of courtesy will only lead to failure at a later date. As an example calling the trans a she only validates their right to use Female spaces.
Toward the end, Peter, you asked Sall why she thought the big issue was gender and not something else. You've been with James Lindsay long enough to hear him talk about Herbert Marcuse and the idea of "false consciousness", and the idea that we need to create or raise a critical consciousness. There HAS to be an oppressed and oppressor to create a revolutionary consciousness, and even Marcuse talked about using the inner city blacks and sexual minorities. The very reason for why it's "trans" as the issue comes directly from a need for constant fuel for the revolutionary fire.
tyvm for interviewing Sall. Enjoyed it totally!
Thank you! That is so important to realize ; "It is a safer choice for women to throw other women under the bus than it is to throw men under the bus, it just is!"
more and more i myself avoiding people because of how we are sliding more and more into delusional thinking. I'd rather be alone or just avoid/cut out anyone anyone woke.
Excellent interview. Thank you 🇬🇧
You’re welcome!
Think about Transmen in male prisons, really think about that.
TBH I guess that if you are a T-something you are not put in prison with the general population anyway...regardless of sx and appearance...
I actually agree with Peter’s first line of questioning. It’s hard for Sall to admit that she’s beautiful, I imagine, as she’ll be told she’s arrogant. But I do think a certain type of TRA will hate her in particular because they’ll also WANT her, and that dissonance will cause more rage. But on the whole, it’s all women, all women get attacked.
Fantastic talk. More people need to hear this.
Sal is spot on. It’s impossible to partition any of “kindness” measures around this issue from being pushed into the ridiculous situation we find ourselves now. It’s. Never. Enough - because we aren’t dealing with people behaving out of rational motivation. At its heart this is facilitating disordered human psychology & its attendant behaviours (generally some of the most dissociated, destructive humans are capable of).
Please interview again for the many updates.
❤🎉
Dude, think ahead and have your questions ready before the interview. And don't begin each sentence with "So,....".
Sall Grover made a fanominal point. We don't see trans men making the same level of demands onto society as trans woman. This is so true!!
2024 and we find ourselves having to justify the existence and validity of women lmao. Oh, how we’ve progressed. I can’t with this shit anymore.
Sall's amazing! Thanks for this conversation, Peter...
☝️😎
How I would describe Sall. Experienced the misogyny and abuse of women in the Hollywood industry as a writer, had to take her dad to meetings for safety. Wants to protect safe spaces for women etc. this is all logical and sane and they call her a Nazi hahahaha
Holy shit!!!! Misgendering a trans in prison gets you in trouble!!! That is utterly 1984. I have always had a visceral opposition to anyone telling me what words I can say, including pronouns.
*CORRECTLY gendering a trans person, in accordance with their EVIDENCE-BASED sex, ie treating them EXACTLY like you treat every other person, gets you in trouble...
BELIEVERS call it "MIS-gendering"... But that's a very deceptive term, because it's only "MIS" gendering, if you ACCEPT the evidence-free, pseudo-religious religious claims of "gender" ideology- That physical, biological evidence doesn't matter, and that your "TRUE gender" is basically like the traditional, religious "soul"- An invisible, 100% evidence-free, 100% undetectable thing in each person, which defines "your TRUE identity".
Whenever you use that term, of "mis-gendering", you are AFFIRMING that (for eg.) Dylan Mulany is "REALLY a woman", or that Sam Shepard is "REALLY a they/them", and that sex-correct pronouns are somehow "wrong".
Ohh my days, what an awful opening couple a questions....😕 But great rest of the show.. The more persons sticking up for Women/Females the Better 👍..x
KJ Keen-Minshull/Posie Parker 👍👍👍
WOMEN ARE NOT REQUIRED TO ENGAGE IN NICETIES
She answered the question in the first 2 seconds!
Excellent thanks
Peter - great job - what a fascinating discussion.
Sall - this is the first time I've seen you on-line and I absolutely love your no B-S evaluation of the merits of gender ideology nonsense.
To you both - keep doing what you're doing! .. and thank you!
🙋♂ Awesome conversation 👍 There were a few instances where I was frustrated by Peter breaking in and not allowing Sall to finish making her point.
TWAM! Excellent podcast. Subscribed! Sall, you are amazing! x
She is AWESOME. She has reached high levels. She has seen Truth and understands It’s significance. Im so proud of her. Speak Truth through your throat chakra and your voice. Speak TRUTH at every level. Because every degree materializes in the next steps. This IS the new test. Speak Truth or Truth will not speak up for you. Lies are not kind. Also the host seems chronically drunk.
The beautfy of democracy is that the majority of the voters receive the leaders they deserve.
"Since rape happens in female prisons, why is it a problem that a trans woman rapist is in a prison?"
It's a problem because prison rape is largely a crime of opportunity committed by, usually, male sociopaths...of which there is a much larger ratio in prisons. That is not the same thing as taking a convicted rapist and putting him in a sealed box with his favorite prey.
What an amazing interview with Sall Grover.- she is everything that trans activities hat. She's beautiful, stunning, brave, a mother, opinionated, headstrong, sassy, feminine, don't give a crap attitude, compassionate, strong and most of all...an adult human female.
OMG! The title to this video has me cry laughing 😂😂😂😂. I love it.
Re: the Lionel Shriver quote.; it's not just a ditch with this one, is a bottomless pit.
1:55 I love it when you just right-out autism a question, Pete.
Peter opened this dialogue like an absolute unit.
This is how I stay sane in an insane world. These conversations keep me sane. I'll be eighty in some months, am a second wave feminist who never hated men (just exclusionary and barbaric behaviors), taught adolescents in various cities and states, including Portland (great place thirty-five years ago), but I have had trouble watching the left go bug-f__k bananas over the years. Taught for forty-three years. Loved it. Loved the teens. Also, went to OSU, PSU, UCSB. LSUNO, CLU, UCI before the insane woke virus spread. Left due to Wokism and everyday violence against teachers. Tutored six Hispanic boys in a nearby alternative high school who say they were thrown out of an English class for refusing to write an essay on "What it's Like to be a Transwoman." WTF! I helped them get their credits and graduate. It was a privilege to work with them. I miss the classroom!
We need to be listening to more people like you.
@lotusstar347. Thank you for teaching and helping those who needed it. Thank you for staying involved.
I’ve been hearing a lot about the wo/man who was sentenced to a woman’s prison and raped the women. That brought to my attention the notorious presence of men raping other men in prison. Nobody ever says that should be stopped. Another double-standard that benefits women.
What yo? Yall are the sex that is in a position of power. If MEN cared about MEN raping MEN you all as a collective would put an end to it. But y’all don’t care because men don’t care about men…y’all only care about competing and comparing yourselves to women. I don’t understand why you’d come to a video about woman’s erasure chatting bout men raping men.
Cool video, My relationship of 5 years ended a month ago. The love of my life decided to leave me, I really love her so much I can’t stop thinking about her, I’ve tried my very best to get her back in my life, but to no avail, I’m frustrated, I don’t see my life with anyone else. I’ve done my best to get rid of the thoughts of her, but I can’t, I don’t know why I’m saying this here, I really miss her and just can’t stop thinking about her.
Amazing, how did you get a spiritual counsellor, and how do i reach her?
Thank you for this valuable information, i just looked her up now online. impressive.
This is a chilling AI convo. Fake af, totally irrelevant, evil marketing. Should be deleted. Yikes.
@@jht3fougifh393yes, youtube comments sections seem to have more and more of these fake AI marketing convo's. They're all irrelevant and should be deleted, but "a great spiritual counsellor who can bring back your ex" really does take it to the level of chilling and evil.
We have a disabled olympics. Why aren't they competing in that.
They are competing in the Paralympics, men that is, in the women's events and taking their medals (see Valentina Petrillo, a 49 year old man, quite old for a runner you might say ). No limit to the depths...
Peter is indeed asking very difficult questions. I think he might be right that some activists have those kinds of thoughts and arguments.
Just that we have to have this conversation about the nature of reality speaks volumes.
1:03:50-1:03:55 I had the same thought about people who litter in the small college town where I was living. If there are 3,000+ residents and all of them picked up a single piece of trash in a day, there would be 3,000+ fewer pieces of trash in a town that is, frankly, dirty and disgusting.
Imagine the difference we could make in the world if 1) everyone picked up a single piece of trash per day, and 2) people would shut up about topics they know nothing about.
Wow very powerful statement about women being afraid to be threatened by men !
Peter, as someone who constantly calls out all the ways in which gender ideology is deranged, you HAVE to see how destructive the “small courtesy” using preferred pronouns is.
Like Sall mentioned, that “courtesy” isn’t actually a courtesy. It’s an anti-truth special privilege being granted to a confused or predatory male at the direct of expense of girls and women.
As was also discussed, granting that “courtesy” while also saying you have a line in the sand further down the ideology will still instantly label you a transphobe, so why even start with pronouns?
Kathleen Stock calls this ‘engaging in a fiction’ and it’s been really weird watching your desire to be courteous override your understanding that no ground should be ceded. It doesn’t matter how small it seems, I think you should stop engaging and immersing yourself in this fiction to any degree. “Kindness” and “courtesy” are what keep this bullshit going.
Yes, and he does switch his language but doesn't think it matters in the long run. It benefits him for his direction, and there is no moral ground apparently.
Both Kathleen Stock and Helen Joyce have already taken him through it step by step when he interviewed them. I can’t tell if he’s genuinely overthinking everything or if it’s an interview technique.
Fanbloodytastic interview,this lady is based,cheers from Australia 🇦🇺 ♥️