I have a Boswell live pigeon gun, 12ga BLNE 8lb 6 oz, 3" chambers, 32" barrels, raised file cut rib, F&F, chequered side panels, 1/2 pistol grip, highly figured stock, 15 1/2" to silver pad, 126 Strand, circa 1921. 70% fine scroll. Once owned by a famous Australian live pigeon shooter, he won a Aston Martin Lagonda in the 1930's at Monte Carlo, said to be first one imported to Australia, the gun swings smoothly and stays on line when the second barrel is fired, I have consistently shot ducks at 55m with this gun.
I had the privilege of knowing Bob Brister who, in his day, was considered one of, if not THE best columbaire pigeon shooter of his day. I used to love to hear his stories about the nuances of this extraordinary shooting game.
I bought a gun here in Australia from an auction house recently that seemed to meet the criteria for a live pigeon gun, but it is a lowly Webley and Scott BLNE…. It does have heavy 30” barrels, greener style cross bolt, tight chokes, a flat, file cut rib, and a rounded pistol grip stock. After a bit of research, it turned out (according to the W&S 1932 catalogue) that it was originally specified as a pigeon gun based on a model 300. Unfortunately, it’s one of the few Webleys with disk set strikers and has a broken hammer that I need to replace. Currently at the gunsmith’s! I always learn so much from you guys. Thanks again
I have a Francotte live pigeon gun side plated boxlock fully engraved with pigeons. Side clips with 2 3/4" chambers 30" berrels. And was manufactured without a safety. Great show. Cheers Ron
Percy Stanbury's gun was built in the style of a live pigeon gun ,and he new where an advantage was to be gained ,As you full well know John having shot it .
Dear Johnny, This is what I mostly shoot, life pigeon, I live in Mexico so I think we are one of the privileged few... I just got my new DT11 30" and I'm quite happy, do you think it´s the "proper" gun for this? I would love to hear you're comments on this! PS: If you guys ever want to come to Mexico for this competitions, I will be glad to host you (great fun), I will be traveling to Madrid on late September early October for the Kings cup (might be one of the lasts..) lets see how we do...
😂 not sure a DT measures up to the greatness of some of these guns, but I’m sure it does the work perfectly well. I have always wanted to go to the kings cup
Great video and very knowledgeable. Here in Spain we say that the live pigeon guns are the formula one of shotguns for various reasons: the ability to shoot 2 shots of 36 grams very fast. That’s why they have long chambers. The reason many had 2 sets of barrels was because of the handicap of the shooter. He could shoot from 22 meters up to 30. Also there were (and still is) experimentation with the bores to get the maximum penetration with the minimum recoil. The weight of the guns was also for this reason. It’s all about shooting two very fast shoots of 36 grams without the gun moving from the first to the second. Patterning was also very important as was reliability of the mechanisms. That is why hammer pigeon guns were made up to the 1930’s as shooters prefer to cock their hammers to take out the chance of not mounting the hammers. The name “trap shooting “ comes from the boxed traps used to throw the birds. In general a sxs pigeon gun is as best a gun can be made and I am not talking about engraving i am talking about performance, reliability, balance, patterns, killing power and all that with not too much recoil. You two should come to Madrid the first week of October to shoot the Kings Cup. There you will understand the reasons of how pigeon guns were made the way they did although nowadays not many shoot with sxs except me (1895 Purdey pigeon gun)and a bunch of other traditionalists.
Wonderful discussion on the live pigeon guns and shooting. I was admiring that huge side by side on the wall behind you two. It is at least a 10 gauge, maybe an 8 gauge. I was hoping you might bring it out and tell us all about it!
Interesting discussion but would have liked to have seen lots of close-ups of the various guns, too. Standard steel and tight chokes in a prized original wouldn't seem like a good idea.
Loving this channel I wish I had found it years ago as now i'm binging. I know exactly what I have now thanks to the brilliant information given here. Its a live pigeon gun circa 1888 by W R Pape of Newcastle, 10 bore sidelock none ejector, 2 5/8th chambres (obsolete) 32" damascus barrels on a beautifully engraved action with much case hardening remaining all mounted on an amazing piece of amber coloured walnut. Thanks guys, keep up the good work.
Live pigeon shooting is the Sport of Kings! It looks easy but the pressure is tremendous when you are on the line. You have to be able to shoot 23 or 24 out of 25 to even be in the money.
There stocked high, the tram line rib tapered is very common today. Why not mention Parker, Winchester 21. You need to be able to stay in the gun for the second shot. A shooter also needs to have a good ground shot also. There is no greater game than Boxbird shooting.
As always really interesting. You guys are comparing a live pigeon gun to a wildfowler - so I assume you are talking about late 19th/early 20th century guns that were designed for live pigeon competitions. If this is the case, where do William Powell and Son guns (30's - 60's) with heavy barrels 2 3/4 and 3" chamber, wide ribs, side clips, Greener cros bolts and pistol grips (and POW) and described as Pigeon guns in their catalogue, sit in this mix?
Interesting stuff, I think today, the closest modern gun to a live pigeon gun could be the Beretta 486? I have one in 20 bore with the beavertail forend and semi pistol grip, which works really nicely on clays and walked up game👌🏻
Enjoyed that, well done. One thing I'm curious to know does anyone else find that fibre lead cartridges pattern better and kill further out of old sxs than plastic lead cartridges.?
I am relatively new to shotgun sports and am by nature a traditionalist whose only. So, I am only shooting clays with SxS's right now. I would absolutely LOVE to hear and see more about Simon's gun that he has here. Any chance of learning at least more about the specs on it?
Nash Buckinghams Bo Woop super fox would have been a fantastic pidgin gun , but preferred to send many Ducks to the great beyond. It’s on display at the ducks unlimited museum in the USA
Really interesting video thank you both. Is there a steel proofed reasonably priced 8lb boxlock that handles well on the market today, the Aya 56 and Connecticut RBL12 sporter are beyond reach.
I have a beretta paralello that's about 7.5lb. Pistol grip, beavertail forend & steel proofed. I'd say close to ideal if not wanting to spend silly money.
Hey im looking for a gun that works good for both hunting and clay shooting. Any ideas? A gun dealer told me fabarm would be good but idk the brand. I have around 2000 euro to use
The presenters left out one characteristic that is a sure indicator that the gun was built and used exclusively for box bird shooting.....the lack of a safety.
I have a Boswell live pigeon gun, 12ga BLNE 8lb 6 oz, 3" chambers, 32" barrels, raised file cut rib, F&F, chequered side panels, 1/2 pistol grip, highly
figured stock, 15 1/2" to silver pad, 126 Strand, circa 1921. 70% fine scroll. Once owned by a famous Australian live pigeon shooter, he won
a Aston Martin Lagonda in the 1930's at Monte Carlo, said to be first one imported to Australia, the gun swings smoothly and stays on line
when the second barrel is fired, I have consistently shot ducks at 55m with this gun.
Lucky man!
Lovely
I can't get enough of Simon's insight. Well done as always.
We are with you on that
I had the privilege of knowing Bob Brister who, in his day, was considered one of, if not THE best columbaire pigeon shooter of his day. I used to love to hear his stories about the nuances of this extraordinary shooting game.
I own his 1100 release trigger. His book doesn’t do justice to him.
I bought a gun here in Australia from an auction house recently that seemed to meet the criteria for a live pigeon gun, but it is a lowly Webley and Scott BLNE…. It does have heavy 30” barrels, greener style cross bolt, tight chokes, a flat, file cut rib, and a rounded pistol grip stock. After a bit of research, it turned out (according to the W&S 1932 catalogue) that it was originally specified as a pigeon gun based on a model 300. Unfortunately, it’s one of the few Webleys with disk set strikers and has a broken hammer that I need to replace. Currently at the gunsmith’s! I always learn so much from you guys. Thanks again
I have a Francotte live pigeon gun side plated boxlock fully engraved with pigeons. Side clips with 2 3/4" chambers 30" berrels. And was manufactured without a safety. Great show. Cheers Ron
Percy Stanbury's gun was built in the style of a live pigeon gun ,and he new where an advantage was to be gained ,As you full well know John having shot it .
Really interesting chat with Simon, super knowledgeable man. These discussion pieces are decent.
Dear Johnny,
This is what I mostly shoot, life pigeon, I live in Mexico so I think we are one of the privileged few... I just got my new DT11 30" and I'm quite happy, do you think it´s the "proper" gun for this? I would love to hear you're comments on this!
PS: If you guys ever want to come to Mexico for this competitions, I will be glad to host you (great fun), I will be traveling to Madrid on late September early October for the Kings cup (might be one of the lasts..) lets see how we do...
😂 not sure a DT measures up to the greatness of some of these guns, but I’m sure it does the work perfectly well.
I have always wanted to go to the kings cup
Great video and very knowledgeable.
Here in Spain we say that the live pigeon guns are the formula one of shotguns for various reasons: the ability to shoot 2 shots of 36 grams very fast. That’s why they have long chambers. The reason many had 2 sets of barrels was because of the handicap of the shooter. He could shoot from 22 meters up to 30. Also there were (and still is) experimentation with the bores to get the maximum penetration with the minimum recoil. The weight of the guns was also for this reason.
It’s all about shooting two very fast shoots of 36 grams without the gun moving from the first to the second.
Patterning was also very important as was reliability of the mechanisms. That is why hammer pigeon guns were made up to the 1930’s as shooters prefer to cock their hammers to take out the chance of not mounting the hammers.
The name “trap shooting “ comes from the boxed traps used to throw the birds.
In general a sxs pigeon gun is as best a gun can be made and I am not talking about engraving i am talking about performance, reliability, balance, patterns, killing power and all that with not too much recoil.
You two should come to Madrid the first week of October to shoot the Kings Cup. There you will understand the reasons of how pigeon guns were made the way they did although nowadays not many shoot with sxs except me (1895 Purdey pigeon gun)and a bunch of other traditionalists.
Wonderful discussion on the live pigeon guns and shooting. I was admiring that huge side by side on the wall behind you two. It is at least a 10 gauge, maybe an 8 gauge. I was hoping you might bring it out and tell us all about it!
Come on down to Texas, we still have love pigeon shooting
What is the mammoth-sized side by side to Johnny's right!?
Interesting discussion but would have liked to have seen lots of close-ups of the various guns, too. Standard steel and tight chokes in a prized original wouldn't seem like a good idea.
Super cool video. Love all historical points!
Loving this channel I wish I had found it years ago as now i'm binging. I know exactly what I have now thanks to the brilliant information given here. Its a live pigeon gun circa 1888 by W R Pape of Newcastle, 10 bore sidelock none ejector, 2 5/8th chambres (obsolete) 32" damascus barrels on a beautifully engraved action with much case hardening remaining all mounted on an amazing piece of amber coloured walnut. Thanks guys, keep up the good work.
That sounds special
Use to shoot box birds my favorite shell was the federal 12 ga pidgin load nickel plated shot Perazzi comp1 32 inch extra full and lite full choke,
I have seen some lovely muzzle loading live pigeon guns and used a couple.
great guns on this one
Very interesting! Always enjoy watching the channel.
Cashmore made some of the best live pigeon guns, very underrated maker, the nitro is an epic gun
Live pigeon shooting is the Sport of Kings! It looks easy but the pressure is tremendous when you are on the line. You have to be able to shoot 23 or 24 out of 25 to even be in the money.
There stocked high, the tram line rib tapered is very common today. Why not mention Parker, Winchester 21. You need to be able to stay in the gun for the second shot. A shooter also needs to have a good ground shot also. There is no greater game than Boxbird shooting.
As always really interesting. You guys are comparing a live pigeon gun to a wildfowler - so I assume you are talking about late 19th/early 20th century guns that were designed for live pigeon competitions. If this is the case, where do William Powell and Son guns (30's - 60's) with heavy barrels 2 3/4 and 3" chamber, wide ribs, side clips, Greener cros bolts and pistol grips (and POW) and described as Pigeon guns in their catalogue, sit in this mix?
billy perdue american and world champion used a Purdey hammergun alot
Which boat was it filmed on, HMS Bounty?
Interesting stuff, I think today, the closest modern gun to a live pigeon gun could be the Beretta 486? I have one in 20 bore with the beavertail forend and semi pistol grip, which works really nicely on clays and walked up game👌🏻
Enjoyed that, well done. One thing I'm curious to know does anyone else find that fibre lead cartridges pattern better and kill further out of old sxs than plastic lead cartridges.?
I heard that when Jonny Carter gets drunk nothing happens to him, however the people around him feel intoxicated. This explains the camera shake.
Live Pigeon Guns!! Now your talking! 😍
2:58 - hence Monte Carlo stock ?
I am relatively new to shotgun sports and am by nature a traditionalist whose only. So, I am only shooting clays with SxS's right now. I would absolutely LOVE to hear and see more about Simon's gun that he has here. Any chance of learning at least more about the specs on it?
very interesting video!
Nash Buckinghams Bo Woop super fox would have been a fantastic pidgin gun , but preferred to send many Ducks to the great beyond. It’s on display at the ducks unlimited museum in the USA
As alway great video!
When are we doing a ‘Simon’s dream guns’ video?!
Very interesting video.
If only they allowed live pigeon shooting in New York City. I owe them some payback. Very rude birds.
Really interesting video thank you both. Is there a steel proofed reasonably priced 8lb boxlock that handles well on the market today, the Aya 56 and Connecticut RBL12 sporter are beyond reach.
I have a beretta paralello that's about 7.5lb. Pistol grip, beavertail forend & steel proofed. I'd say close to ideal if not wanting to spend silly money.
Hey im looking for a gun that works good for both hunting and clay shooting. Any ideas? A gun dealer told me fabarm would be good but idk the brand. I have around 2000 euro to use
😀😇😊 Heavenly Live Pigeon Guns Johnny 😀😇 Did They Also Use Them in The Trenches of WW1 To Shoot Down Carrier Pigeons 😀
Yes, but those guns are painted in khaki
Guns that shoot out pigeons? You are monsters.
I'm telling Chris Packham
Hahahahahahahaha.
Hahahahahahahahahha.
Please consider using a tripod for the camera
Still happens in the US… still a Loooot Of money involved
Has the camera man been drinking ? 🤪🤪🤪
Wish you showed more of actual guns, and yes there are plenty of box lock live bird guns…
Great but could you SHOW the guns up close , otherwise it's like two guys talking in a pub .
Isn't it literally called a "trap" because it used to be a box trap full of live pigeons? Classic skeumorphism
You can win some BIG MONEY here in Texas at a pigeon shoot. If you are invited.
The presenters left out one characteristic that is a sure indicator that the gun was built and used exclusively for box bird shooting.....the lack of a safety.
I was expecting them to mention the lack of a safety also.
Camera man needs sacking 🥴
FIRST
I shot a pigeon with a Miroku once. That makes it my live pigeon gun.
Interesting, as always. But a pity that the indescribable barbarity of the 'sport' wasn't mentioned.