Debunking Flashpoint! [The Flash]
Вставка
- Опубліковано 24 вер 2024
- Thanks to Manscaped for sponsoring today’s video! Get 20% OFF + Free Shipping with my link manscaped.com/...
• Support us on Patreon: / trailerdrake
• Tweet at me: / trailerdrake
Buy Flashpoint here: amzn.to/2Whp35A
Flashpoint is an iconic event for Barry Allen, but if we're going to be honest... it doesn't make sense.
Special thanks to our Patrons for helping make this possible!
Basel, Bonnie Davies, Yosh Flores, Brendan Linebarger, Senita Mahoney, Jonathan & Megan Pierson, David Adler, Dylan Blass-Svedvik, Ralph Braganzan, Ethan Dannen, Sam Kirkham, LookWhosFhtagn, Ben Payne, Cole Roberts, The Side Quest Gamer, Andrew Shaffer, Vydal
Also a special thanks to Reuben for the script consultation!
Tags: #TheFlash #Comics #DCComics
Lots of people are pointing out that Dr. Manhattan and Pandora are the reasons why the timeline changed. Yes, that is why the New 52 post-Flashpoint universe exists, but that is *NOT* what this video is about. This is about the creation of the Flashpoint world itself, not the New 52 or anything else that came as a result of Barry stopping himself.
Maybe It was supposed to be like you said, that Barry saving his mom would Just result in Nora being alive, but then our good doctor thought that this was the perfect chance to try out his power on another universe, so he distorted reality to see what would happen if superheroes were crazy (he saw superheroes being good with DC, superheroes being neutral/dicks with Watchman, so maybe he wanted to try this out of curiosity)
Whoever writes these stories don't know very much about temporal mechanics. If the past could be changed, then what happened that caused Barry Allen's mother to die will either cause the timeline to split one where she didn't die one where she did that would explain a lot about what happened at what caused the flashpoint event in one timeline and what didn't happen and Flashpoint never happened in the other. Look at some time travel episodes in the original Star Trek series. Instead of changing the past in the episode where the Enterprise accidentally went back in time they called the timeline to split. So temporal Divergence would be the easiest explanation for what happened in this Flashpoint universe and why those same events are reflected in the main DC Universe. Just a thought.
Peace Whoga
@@Whogaman The Flashpoint timeline actually does still exist, as do the timelines and realities that came before it. Hell, Wally West (the one that's currently the other The Flash because there's two now, not his post-Flashpoint cousin who became Kid Flash because apparently it wasn't confusing enough that there's two Flashes, now there's another Wally (Or Wallace which he's called to avoid confusion even though that's both their full given name) who isn't the Post-Flashpoint counterpart of Pre-Flashpoint Wally who also became Kid Flash) came out of the Pre-Flashpoint timeline. Apparently, Hunter Zolomon wasn't even affected by Flashpoint at all because somehow being so much farther into the future made him immune to timeline changes (which honestly makes even less sense than Barry saving his mom creating Flashpoint).
Does Malcolm Thawne still exist [as Barry's lost twin] in Post New-52/You/Rebirth canon? If so it would remain a massive plot hole.
@@mattwo7 I never said that the flashpoint Universe never existed. All I'm saying is that it existed another plane of existence. When it comes to temporal Divergence, what happens in a specific point in time causes two different outcomes to exist one where one decision wasn't made in the timeline goes One Direction, and another where the decision is made and the timeline splits into another distinct timeline. From that point on, you have two distinct timelines with their own route towards its future whatever it's going to be. Like I said a certain decision that's made today could affect the outcome of a future that isn't set in stone yet. The future is fluid. So no matter what happens you don't know exactly what the future is going to bring. So just like Star Trek you don't know where the original timeline starts and wearing you go back in time which set of circumstances created the original timeline or the Divergent timeline. Look at the Mirror Universe stories from the various Star Trek series. What event happened that caused the timeline to diverge to create the Galactic Empire timeline. It's just something to think about.
Peace Whoga
My personal head canon is that Thrawne was lying through his teeth and used Barry traveling back to save his mom as a way to do major time alterations with no one the wiser.
Flashpoint is the ultimate Butterfly Effect... It’s the Mothera Effect
It's the Gigantamax Butterfree Crossed With Volcarona Crossed With Mothra Effect. The Gigantamax Buttercaronthra Effect.
Love this just all of it
Perfectly Ultimate Great Moth effect.
Mothra effect is something that should definitely be used for reality altering stories like Flashpoint
closer the grandfather paradox if anything. Barry couldn't change his personal past without creating a paradox.
Interesting take on the flashpoint story and honestly I agree Barry’s actions for him going back in time to save his mom shouldn’t have caused this must damage to the timeline however I kinda like the animated movie explanation on flashpoint because that adaptation actually had reverse flash tell barry yes this was his fault but also explained break the time barrier time boom ripples of distortion causes changes to the timeline that’s the explanation I go up with, now as for reboot to the new 52 yeah that’s another can of worms in itself.
👍👍👍
@@dcmarvelcomicfans9458 :)
Tevya Smolka no one like it’s at 69
@@piggymkcool lol okay
Plus you could say Manhattan having played with the timeline
Me: Who would win, Flash vs ____?
Flash. He would go back in time and...
Me: Youve never read flashpoint huh?
Drake: I T N E V E R H A P P E N E D
@@AzA609 I think I will now become a Linear Man. Time travel can turn the universe to whatever Dan DiDio wants it to be, therefore we must end it.
They literally had to take Wally out just for this timeline to make sense lol
still didn't make sense though.
No its not!
@@GREG_Khar-NÜ-Metalhead2000 ???
Wally West is a better Flash than Barry Allen. You can't change my mind.
@@epsilon3569 no arguments here. Barry was so boring that for the longest time the best thing he did for the flash name was die.
I liked how Jay Garrick explained it on TV. The more that time is meddled with, the more drastic the side effects are. You can go back in time and perform an action that has a large effect, but undoing that action may alter the effect or even make it worse.
Yeah I was more than a bit annoyed with the retcon of Barry's mom being dead. Him having living parents during his run helped make him special. It's the same reason I prefer Clark's parents being alive and part of his supporting cast.
😢😢😮😊😊😊😊
It seems often forgotten you couldn't alter the timeline pre-Crisis. Cobolt Blue was post-Zero Hour but pre-Infinite Crisis. It's Blackest Night Thawne that goes back and kills Nora. I don't think Cobolt survived timeline tweaks before Eobard's return, tho I would love seeing his return and affects on the Thawne family timeline. I really wanted Eddie to come back in the Blue.
The real question is, does ANYTHING make sense? 🤔
Your pfp checks out
No, "because comics". 🤣
No
@@selahanany5645 no u dont u dumb,it's checks in
Mattie Washburn Yes, because it’s Thursday
Reverse Flash went back in time to kill Barry’s mom, which caused Disney to buy Marvel in 2009 and took DC’s share in the superhero box office.
I’d say that’s a pretty damaging event in the DC universe timeline.
They themselves already explained this in the comic it wasn’t just saving his mom that created flashpoint reverse flash messed with the timeline as well
Barry’s age during his Mother’s death doesn’t really prove anything since Thawne used the ultimate retcon; time travel..Barry could be any age and Thawne could kill Nora Allen, causing Barry to become a forensic scientist
Barry having a twin brother and them being separated at birth is literally just Heavy Weather and Pucci for DC
3:00 He’s so drunk he became Commissioner Gordon apparently
I always disliked that they made his mom die in the comics. In my opinion it takes away from his character. Instead of just being a man who has good morals and wants to help people just because he wants to do the right thing. They made him a carbon copy of all the other heroes who have to have a trouble past for extra drama
That's around the same time they decided Superman's parents had to die before he became a hero even though they were a huge part of what made Superman such a grounded superhero despite all his power. I just think Dan Didio hates parents.
@@DrPluton yeah and it is such a shame because I think that just makes them more unique as superheroes. Instead of them all having people die to drive them into doing something right. They can just be naturally good people
Thats os my issue with dc every hero become a hero because of tragedy.
Jacob Holt it s DC signature , all DC heroes and villain have parents issues (murdered or abusive)...makes me question the original creators
@@lilsabin yeah I just wish it didn't have to be like that. I use to think they did that to make them more realistic and grounded but the more I thought the more it seemed almost comical how every single on of them have had dead parents and tramatic back stories. And I mean I do understand it allows for stories down the line I still think that some characters shouldn't have to be changed just to have the possibilty of it being a story arch in the future
"This is what the writers and editors over at DC wanted to be canon."
Well, Geoff Johns was just trying to write a cool story. The higher ups did want to integrate it, though.
I’ve just found this channel, but this video made me realize something, and I feel like it’s the best place to share it: in the Flash TV show, the original Season 1 Thawne is implied (or confirmed, I haven’t watched S1 in a while) to come from a timeline where Barry is the Flash, and both of Barry’s parents are still alive, which makes the show one of the few pieces of media to actually acknowledge the shift from both of Barry’s parents being alive to Barry’s mom being murdered. Just an interesting bit of information that I thought of.
I'm no DC expert (REALLY!) but I read all of the books mentioned in the video. I always thought that the ripple effect in Flashpoint was because Barry Allen never became the Flash: no mother murdering -> no becoming forensic technitian -> no being hit by lightning and chemicals. Since the Flash plays a major role in the DC universe, his absence would change the course of many events (like, for instance, the outcome of crisis on inifinte earths). I thought that the "shattering of reality" explanation was to make the whole explanation complete, in order to cover non Flash related events like the shooting of the Waynes...what did I get wrong?
Problem there is Barry Allen became a forensic scientist and then The Flash just fine when he had living parents. He's not Batman. His mother dying was an in-universe retcon via time travel done to a Barry who was The Flash and had living, happy, healthy parents. Making *undoing the time travel meddling* the unacceptable retcon that ruins the timeline is ridiculous.
Yeah, the idea was that you can't travel to the same point of time multiple times altering the timeline without shattering it because it's delicate so when Barry went back it may not have been a ripple effect per se but more of a whiplash effect creating multiple disc lesions in the spinal cord of time that would take years or precise surgery to correct, hoping that the Universe would survive long enough to benefit from the recovery or even recover at all. But really Drake, get your mom a manscaping kit. Bong!
I initially felt the same way about Flashpoint, that Barry saving his mother should have put his history back the way is was before Thawne changed it. (he did more than Kill his mom by the way. he did many things to make him miserable). but then I remembered, this is actually a variation of the grandfather paradox. you see when Thawne changed Barry's past he changed Barry and the changes now became part of Barry's personal history. so now Barry couldn't change it because it was part of his personal past. f it was a simple as Barry saving his mom sets things back then he looses that past and the motivation to go back to change it back. just as if you time travel to the past, then kill your grandfather before he met your grandmother then you cant exist to go back and do that in the first place.
on Doctor Who there was a simple line that best sums it up. he called it 'the Destiny Trap; you cant change the past if you are a part of it' and for Barry the death of his mother IS a part of his past since he learned Thawne was her killer.
as to when Thawne did that deed? in rebirth he mentioned he has his own resurrection coming up and that happened at the end of Blackest Night. the first thing he did at that time was go to the past and made the changes to Barry's past that made his life less pleasant. starting small with Pushing down a set of stairs when he was child, letting Barry's dog out to get run over by car, erasing his best friend from existence etc.. up till he killed his mother. then travel to the time of flash:rebirth for the events of that story.
Thawn is douche
Hey Drake, I was wondering if you make a “best comics of 2019” video like you did last year, could you include a segment talking about comics that came out/are going to come out that would be good jumping on points for new readers.
Most likely not. Those videos didn't get the views I was hoping for.
Comic Drake Ok, thanks for replying!
@@ComicDrake oof so sad to hear. Really loved those vids
@@ComicDrake Why not do the best comics of the decade? No countdown, just in your opinion, THE best comics this decade has produced.
Finally!! Someone said it! Honestly this point has been bothering me for years!!! Thank you!
see the thing is he went about it the wrong way, the right way to save his mom would have been to go to the future, and stop his future self from meeting and busting Thawn, which lead to him becoming the reverse flash, which lead to him killing his mom
You know what would have been really smart? Go to the future to bust Thawne instead of letting his future self doing it... while pretending to be Thawne. Now Thawne is redirected onto blaming his own future self.
The thing about ads...I didn't want to know that Comic Drake manscapes...and now I know.
And Knowing is Half the Battle
Me: Mom, can we have Eobard
Mom: We have Eobard at home
Eobard at home: EOBORD
That annoyed me too
I didn’t know about cobalt blue being Barry’s brother and becoming a Thawne. But then that would mean that Bart Allen’s parents were cousins?
Depends on the medium if you're talking about young justice where Bart is born in 2043 then I would assume so...? but if you're talking about the comics where he is born in the 31st century then no but Bart's mom is a descendant of Malcolm.
This just made me realize that Bart's family tree is sooooo freaking weird...... Barry is a speedster and Iris is from the future(?) so its only two generations there but malcom and their fam is (as normal as a villain can be) so it has a thousand years of generations.......
it's always fun being curious and realizing/ finding something new about one of my favorite characters so thanks for that thought-provoking question😁
Mantha Boo I looked it up and your right. Barry is his grandfather and Malcolm is both his grand uncle and his great great, etc grandfather. But his mother’s line would have had a thousand years difference from his father’s. So the family tree would have a long line from the top to the bottom to get to Bart.
Didn't Doomsday Clock establish that the Earth-0 universe (AKA the metaverse) has a degree of sentience? Doctor Manhattan noted that it fought back against his alteration, which resulted in the return of Wally West. Perhaps the metaverse was reacting badly to Barry's attempt to restore the previous timeline.
If that is the explanation, why is the universe resisting changing back to the original status quo and not the initial temporal changes, which regards of any previous canon, would still be time-travel.
This is why I find dc and marvel confusing sometimes since they are always retconing explanations all the time
@@cool2314
DC at least has the balls to reset continuity… Marvel just scales the timeline indefinitely.
Flashbacks to 1960s era of comics, everyone was holding a smart phone lol. Death of Gwen Stacy? That shit happened like 3 years ago lol
@@cunnyman lol before the new 52 dc would scale the time line just like marvel. writers like grant morrison would reference events that happened in the 70's and treat it like it happened yesterday. in fact after rebirth and death metal, they started bringing old events back into the timeline and scaling them to the current year. just read dc infinte frontier they refrence teen titans history which spans over 50 years and red arrow remebers it like it was yesterday
Here's my theory: Thawne traveled back in time on a Tuesday, he traveled back to a Tuesday, where he subsequently killed Barry's mom, back traveling from a tuesday to a past tuesday this kept all that time travel mumbo jumbo stuff at a minimum, but see Barry traveled from a Thursday and you see it's throwback thursday, which really messes with Taco Tuesday which is why Fry ended up banging his grandma making him his own grandpa >> Flashpoint.
Thawne made Barry's mom's death a fixed point in time. To DR WHO for me.
Lol I just watched Neil degrasse Tyson on startalk talking about time travel and the whole fixed point in time is not actually a thing in time travel and that you can actually change any event but then you would cease to exist because it creates a paradox
Superboy-prime:
I'm about to punch reality so hard that another Robin will be brought back to life
Superboy-prime: I'm about to pound you so bad reality will get jealous
Messing with time makes everything all wibbily wobbly timey wimey
Finally, someone said it
Kind of like Back to the Future 2, but instead of just killing someone, it was a book containing future knowledge that someone who was greedy enough to take advantage of would maliciously exploit it
It was RF who fucked up the timeline he himself in the comics says he messed with things after Barry saved his mom. All the FP changes are RF changes. The Changes post FP are the results of Dr Manhattan...
8:57 Darkseid wearing jeans
lmao
When does time travel stories ever make sense? :P
The movie Primer.
Harry Potter?
Comics and logic do not mix. Short and simple
My personal theory is that the Flashpoint resulted from the Bootstrap Paradox collision. Barry saved his mom, so Barry would have never saved his mom, so Barry couldn't save his mom, so Barry would have gone to save his mom. Thawne killed his mom, so Thawne's existence was predicated now on Barry's mom being killed, so Thawne never killed Barry's mom because Barry saved her, so Thawne didn't kill Barry's mom, so that Thawne would never exist, etc. Yes, Barry was sloppy, but not in the way you'd think. The sloppy aspect was having _that many_ paradoxes all piled on top of each other.
Furthermore, they're all messing with events that both didn't happen and yet had to have happened. The Post-Crisis universe begins at the point we see it begin, and yet it has always existed. Usually this doesn't matter too much... except Barry is a walking paradox. Think about it. Who died in Crisis on Infinite Earths? New Earth Barry, or Earth-One Barry? Earth-One Barry died, yet New Earth Barry is the one who's resurrected. New Earth Barry did not exist before he was resurrected. By tampering with _his_ timeline, you are tampering with Crisis on Infinite Earths. Unlike most of them, you can't separate New Earth and Earth-One Barry. New Earth Barry has to magically become Earth-One Barry to die in Crisis and the only way to not collapse that paradox is for nobody to ever observe it. By tampering with the leadup to that, you introduce deeper paradoxes into the universe. You introduced an extra paradox into the stable paradox of Crisis, you've divorced New Earth and Earth-One Barry. You've intermixed a horrible mess of paradoxes into Crisis, which essentially just caused an explosion in the fabric of spacetime. The universe was able to cope with just the extra problems created by Thawne, but Barry adding his own bootstrap paradox and creating a second bootstrap paradox for Thawne at the same time in the same place caused a meltdown.
"Break the Sound Barrier. There's a sonic boom. You broke the Time Barrier, Flash. TIME boom."
The partial explanation that I liked from the TV series when Barry tries going back again and again to try putting things back to pre-Flashpoint norms is that even if you glue a broken cup back together, it's already been fractured and weakened. The more you go back to a certain point in time and meddle with it, the worse the repercussions get, no matter how much you try to piece it back to how it used to be. The time continuum is delicate and can be irrevocably altered if you're not careful. Of course, the amount of time travel they do on that show in such a cavalier fashion is a bit insane.
Thawn says this in the flash TV show, that Barry has been extremely lucky with his early time travel shenanigans. So you could apply that to Barry's early time travel in the comics. He wasn't skilled as you say, just extremely lucky and didnt even know until later that altering the time line could have such adverse effects on it.
I guess the day Barry's mother was killed Joe Chill was reading it on a newspaper before Killing the Wayne's as in the back of his head it said "Dead Mom" and decided to shoot Martha than Thomas which in Flashpoint, that hypothetical situation never happened so he aimed for the kid
Thawne kind of explained it in the movie by saying when Barry ran back in time, he created a “time boom” kind of like a sonic boom and the ripples from that are how events that occurred before her murder were affected too (Superman landing in Metropolis, Bruce Wayne dying, Martha becoming Joker and Thomas becoming Batman, etc). So to me that at least implies that theres always some randomness that occurs with how events play out when you change the past. The only explanation I’ve heard for why Thawne can do it with no major consequences is that his negative speed force gives him that ability
I always thought Reverse Flash helped make things weird during Flash Point, too. Thawn is from the future, he has a bunch of info about our present, and he's got a ton of time travel experience, so I figured he just played with the time line so it would be hard for Barry to leave, in a lot of senses. Not only does he have his mom back which would make him want to stay, but there's no JLA to help him get back either. And all it took was little nudges: a bullet hitting a kid instead of his parents; a space ship landing a mile east.
But that's also why I've always thought A Reverse Flash so dangerous. They're crazy, evil, and playing in 4 dimensions.
Kite-man hell yeah!
I'm going to try to comment this in every comic Drake video.
Yeah it's interesting to just explore the continuity of comics cause these days it's getting harder to keep track of all changes and there were those extremely wacky times for comics especially Batman in the sixties. What were your favourite stories about Batman from that decade?
The key to understanding Flashpoint is that it wasn't natural. When Thrawn went back in time and killed Barry's mom, he used the Negative Speed Force to do it; and that poisoned the event so that any attempt to undo it would shatter the timeline. Barry wasn't aware of this, which is why his attempt to fix it was "sloppy".
Once Barry realizes the true cause of the Flashpoint, perhaps he can figure out a way to counter the Negative Speed Force poisoning of the event, and then go back and finally set things right…
Here's a Theory: Eobard killed Nora to prompt Barry to go back so that _he_ could then muck up the timeline and then blame Barry for the whole thing because villain.
Dude they literally said that when Reverse Flash uses the negative speed force to change time he doesn’t cause massive ripple affects. But since Barry used the regular speed force it changed everything. Pretty sure this was explained in flash rebirth
The issue is that the Cosmic Treadmill still exists in canon, he used it in a different storyline. So it occurs to me, that you are correct.
I think Linkara put it best in his review of Flashpoint, this a great Flash story but not a good event/crisis story. I also just wanted to say that I appreciate this channel and your enthusiasm for comics it’s refreshing.
i feel like what messed up the timeline is that barry tried to mess with his personal past. who will go back in time to save your mom if you never know that your mom needs saving, and then no one is there to save your mom.
I've seen a few different takes on "well, this doesn't quite make sense" regarding Flashpoint... noone bothers to bring up that Superman's entire life on Earth was changed, even though that started before the point that Barry went back to. It's possible the Flashpoint universe was created by Dr Manhattan (like the inconsistencies after Barry stopped himself from causing the Flashpoint universe)
To explain why whenever reverse flash goes back in time nothing happens to him,
Is that the reverse flash has the negative speed force so their is no consequence whenever he goes back to the past.
My reasoning for flashpoint is due to the fact that Barry has touched so many lives and being a superhero coupled with “sloppy” time travel
Wait, if Malcolm and Barry are brothers, that would mean the Thawnes and Allens' descendants are the same family, and that Bart Allen was created from incest -- though hundreds of years' of generations later? Because isn't Bart's father, Don Allen, and his mother's a Thawne? Wait, so Barry is Eobard great-great etc. uncle! I never knew that
It probably Dr Manhattan doing because after Barry change the timeline back it there were 10 years of time that got pull out of the comic by Dr Manhattan
Old DC killed Barry off because they thought he was uninteresting or something like that. So when new DC brings him back their "solution" was to give him a more Batman like origin because they didn't see the potential of a superhero working in a crime lab after CSI and the OJ trial that brought an exaggerated view of forensics to the forefront. Apparently "inspired by comics to become a hero" didn't make sense to someone making comics, and that's the saddest part of this retcon.
I mean this doesn't answer what the vid is about but a probable reason why reverse flash didn't change the timeline was that he is a "time anomaly" of sort. My source isn't the best because I didn't read the comics just heard it from death battle of Goku black vs reverse flash. If anyone who read the comics wants to correct me please go ahead I am interested to learn more. (Man it sucks not having a comic shop near by)
Great video, but Flashpoint wasn’t contingent on his mom’s death. Thawne pointed out that, just like the sound barrier, you create a time boom when you break the time barrier. This creates ripples through the timeline that change things a tiny bit, but enough. Instead of landing in the Kent Farm, Clark’s ship landed in Metropolis. Instead of the waynes being killed, Bruce was killed. So on and so forth.
Well yeah but like mentioned thawn did it too but didn't make those events and flash has time traveled before too, my interpretation is that because thawn did travel to that point so maybe just 2 time traveling changes made a bigger boom but /shrug
strangest thing being how him going back made supermans baby ship somehow land entirely differently
What if flashpoint is the true timeline and thawn went back to prevent this by killing Nora. Making Wally the villain until he goes back and let's his mom die.
I care more about the internal logic. Barry saving his mom somehow echoed backwards in time to knock baby Clark's pod into the city?
I don't know if there are any examples to contradict this but I think Barry caused such a big ripple because he was directly affecting his own history and in such a way as to remove his ability to time travel thus creating a paradox, reverse flash could get away with it because he had some causal distance from the event and because his changes still resulted in a timeline where Barry was the flash and thus still inspired reverse flash
I appreciate how J.M.S wrote Barry Allen, he kept him chipper and heroic instead of being angsty.
In a modern Brave and the Bold series from pre-Flashpoint Barry Allen traveled back in time to team up with the freedom force that are Black Hawks (I forgot the name), when he told them he was the Flash one of them their leader mentioned Jay Garrick's fashion choice not being similar to Barry's.
I feel as though it makes sense because if you go back in time you wouldn't really change your own timeline, because if the event doesn't happen then how could you go back in time to stop it? So you'd go to a different timeline where the event doesn't happen. So you're just going to a timeline that already exists. Flash going back in time isn't what made the flashpoint world. That just so happens to be the timeline of events he traveled to.
NO VIEWS CLUB
N O V I E W S
Hey! I'm part of the club!
Crazy theory I have is that the Flashpoint happened is because Barry altered a change in the past that Thawne caused, there were two opposing speed forced, one positive and the other negative, both trying to change history and since Barry changed the negative when it was so close to make the change it caused a feedback effect. And like in math positive and negative equals a negative which made the Flashpoint timeline. Note I just thought this up for the heck of it so don't take it seriously
I can't wait to see Barry's secret twin in the TV show after he dies
I think the flashpoint movie fixed this by not including the whole flash rebirth thing of reverse flash changing the timeline by killing his mom
It also appeared to just be a random mugger in that
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!!!!There have only been a couple videos on how Barry use to have his parents and only lost them after the crisis. Also on why flashpoint was how it was and why it just didn’t go back to the things were. I love videos like this and your channel is awesome keep up the great work!!!!
Flashpoint for me was always such a bad story. First, I hate "butterfly effect" type of stories. Why would Barry saving his mom make Bruce Wayne die and his dad becoming Batman and his mom becoming Joker? Why would that change the landing of Superman's shuttle? Second, I really hate that such a shitty story was responsible for the reboot of DC, a reboot where most was pretty bad.
If I remember correctly, the movie stated Barry used the entirety of the Speed Force to travel back in time. Meaning that massive amount of energy being forced through could explain the excessive and drastic changes to the timeline. But then again, why did he need that much power to travel back? There are cases where he's down something like that before without needing all of the Speed Force
@@Awesome_Pichu I understand the explanation in the comics and the animation. However, it doesn't change the fact that it is a "Butterfly Effect" kind of story, and that I'm not a fan of those.
I also find it weird that flashpoint states that the speed force is finite even though before and after its stated that the speedforce is infinite. My headcannon is that Barry being absorbed into the speedforce and then returning messed up the way he travels through time considering we haven’t really seen anything happen like flashpoint since the new 52 in terms of time travel. So yeah, my guess is somehow flash being inside of the speed force somehow affected the way he interacted with time in a catastrophic way.
Flashpoint can’t have been caused solely by Barry’s actions. Conclusion: there’s another time traveller and their actions haven’t been documented yet.
I can see them blaming Flashpoint on Doctor Manhattan.
If Barry saved his mom he may not have become the flash and that would have caused quite a few messes no
your speech at the end of the video was really heart whelming and great video as always
I was always curious why this attempt of time travel caused the time boom (like a sonic boom, but instead of breaking the sound barrier, it broke the time barrier) and affected both the distant past such as where Superman landed, the past such as Nora Allen living, and the present with the Atlantean/Themyscira war.
Nora Allen after the Crisis: Oh Barry, I'd do anything to have you back
Eobard Thawne: Anything? Your wish is my command
If I did Flashpoint it would be about flash has to recreate the universe right before crisis destroys everything but he messes up, creates reverse flash and makes the universe change to wally west as flash.
What I took from Flashpoint is the "Paradox" part as two speedsters traveled back in time to affect a single point in time, one after the other, and while Thawn somehow had the knowhow to only affect barry's personal timeline, Barry himself was not thinking at the moment of the change and what we know of the speedforce it can have massive influence on the world and barry himself, and we also know that in the Canon Lore Flashpoint was used to weaken the Heroes as a whole before the whole Rebirth part of the new 52 kicked in.
this was nice to hear a different take even if it isn't completely accurate
DC tried to make time travel harder post-Crisis. They pointed to things such as Barry hopping on his treadmill and effortlessly traveling through time (not to mention Iris' soul being called *back* to her native (!) 30th Century by her parents upon her death at the hands Professor Zoom, himself a time traveling villain).
Like most things post an event it was forgotten about and time travel became easier and easier.
We could say that a reality warping event might create ripples temporarily affecting time travel. Thus, making Barry's trip through time have dire consequences in the wake of Final Crisis, where all time was condensed to a single moment (at least that's what I think happened. I like Morrison, but his comics do make my brain itch). Sure, Thawne beat him to the punch but (a) it's established the effects of time travel work differently on those who first traveled back from the future (Bart, for example having his memories in the Flashpoint timeline) and (b) perhaps the dire consequences for Thawne was the creation of the Negative Speedforce he began to draw from.
Comics!
It’s explained in the movie pretty simply. Thawne says Barry broke the “time barrier”, sending ripples throughout the timeline, the same way he always breaks the sound barrier. This is what caused all the changes.
That doesn't explain anything. Reverse flash is just the writers forcing drama.
@@kristen5149 yeah, he's the villain
It is the butterfly effect. One time-travel trip might not have any such world-changing repercussions, but another one might. Anyway, I thought Batman/Bruce Wayne was older than Flash/Barry Allen, and that the killing of Bruce's parents should therefore be earlier than the killing of Allen's mother. But Flashpoint means it must be the other way around.
It was thanks to Flashpoint that I have lost interest in the Flash and it was thanks to this video that I am reminded WHY I dislike Flashpoint in the first place.
Honestly, to quote Infinite Crisis: "Barry Allen was better off dead than alive." I mean I just cannot get into the Flash as they just made him almost similar to Batman, but with Super speed, with the whole dead parent motivation thing. I mean can there ever be a Hero at DC that Does not have a tragedy dead parent in their life growing up...and do not say Wonder Woman.
Damian wayne
I feel like the change in Flashpoint was more due to the affects on the speed force than Barry’s life itself. So the biggest change in flashpoint is actually the crash landing location of Superman. How does the flash effect the trajectory of a independent space craft. So what if the speed force was never created is along my thinking for such a huge change. I believe the parent living is less important than Barry never becoming the flash. And how does that affect time travelers that use the speed force as well. So the finite life of flash could reach well into the decent past and future with the possible domino effects. But hey I’m not dr. Manhattan so who knows
My biggest issue is Wonder Woman in this story. She had a lot of her arch already by WW2. Why would an event that takes place WAY after most of her character development change her to being a warmongering psychopath?
The reason that zoom can go in the past and not cause a paradox in because has the negative speed and knows how to control it the power he has is called paradox negation. Those old versions of the flash could be from a different earths
Thawne in the Flash TV show said he knows what he is doing when he travels back in time also in comics Thawne when running creating a time portal can choose the time he goes to without the cosmic tredmill so Thawne knows the perfect way to time travel and change time Barry however doesnt Thawne changed the events with killing Barry's mother but that along side everything with Crisis Zero hour and when superboy prime rippled reality could've caused side effects that could entirely ruin the timeline as its already rippled and destroyed not just that but all of those things combined with Barry's mom being killed trough time travel thats not all that changes Barry running trough the timestream and stopping Thawne from killing his mother would've changed something and caused a paradox Thawne was in the timestream when flashpoint happend and that made him a paradox but if Barry saved his mother the timeline would reset meaning Thawne tries to kill Nora again causing an endless loop with the speedforce and timeline having its own mind and with the reality shattering events that already happend reality would've made a new timeline hat allows the Nora to live without a loop being created but to do that they needed to change events from the past present and the future or as Thawne says a time boom with Thawne being in the timestream he was broken and no longer existed in the timeline but in the previous timeline were Barry's mom lived when Barry was 17 but since that timestream was broken Thawne could only travel to the Flashpoint timeline but whatever happend to him there it wouldnt affect him since he didnt exist there when Barry fixed the timeline the original one was gone and so reality altered the flashpoint timeline so Nora would die changing events again causing the new 52 to happen
Even before I knew any of this about Flash, Flashpoint always rubbed me the wrong way. Especially now, knowing Thwan did the same thing but all that changed was Barry Allen's mother being dead and the father blamed then arrested.
But, if Barry saves his mom from being killed by Reverse-Flash, young Barry (who never lost his mom in the new timeline) wouldn't have been "driven" to be a forensic scientist. If Barry never became a forensic scientist, he wouldn't have been in his lab that night to be doused by chemicals and struck by lightning, meaning he never would have become the Flash.
But, if Barry was never the Flash, he couldn't have gone back in time to save his mother.
Paradox!
They should have just left him dead after the Crisis.
I tought it was because the Negative Speedforce can change time without paradoxes and the regular speedforce can't
I thought the TV show did a decent job of explaining how all this works. Once you write over a timeline, its creates a branch. Trying to fix the branch doesn't erase the first branch, it merely creates a new one. Similar in a lot of ways to the original, but NOT the same.
You want to know what else makes no sense?
-getting struck by lightning turns you to the fastest man alive.
-a ring that helps you make any weapon you can imagine.
-getting bitten by a radioactive spider turns you into a superhero
-4 astronauts go to space and turn to the fantastic four.
-Talking to fish
Dude, get off of spiderman. Lol.
The only real thing you left out was that Thawne in the comics kept going back again and again to dick around with Barry's childhood. So while I don't like it that Time has been reduced to a cranky old man who ends up hitting the kid who told the other kids to get off his lawn, I have a theory. By screwing around so much with Barry's history, Thawne either wittingly or unwittingly (my odds are on wittingly) over-clocked history itself. By the time Barry went back to save his Mom, the 'room' of history was filled with trip-wires caused by the other changes, and when Barry simply undid the central original change, the 'wires' snapped back and cut through everything. The added bonus for Thawne is that he now framed Barry on a cosmic level the way he did Henry Allen and can taunt him during his now-infinite returns.
Comics, they make no sense in the first place.
I just realized maybe when Barry saved Nora he didn’t go back to the present maybe he travelled to a different reality like he’s done that before probably
He def went back in time
I mean, what are we to believe, that this is some sort of magic time travel or something? Boy, I really hope something got fired for that blunder.
I’m pretty sure that they retconned this plot point during the dooms day clock event. explaining that dr. manhattan was responsible for a lot of the paradoxes by monkeying around with time and reality