WEEK 10 - TOUGH DECISIONS! - 1968 Norton Commando
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2023
- #norton #1968nortoncommando carburettor and wheel chrome restoration
Series 2: Is all about restoring this 'special' Norton Commando from 1968. The ealiest known surviving production line Commando.!
WEEK 10 + a few - This week I have to decide to leave or split the engine cases.
Every week a new video will be uploaded covering my week by week restoration of this iconic part of the Norton history, the original Norton Commando 750 1968, so PLEASE SUBSCRIBE TO MY CHANNEL AND HIT THE NOTIFICATION 'BELL' ICON, TO BE NOTIFIED WHEN A NEW VIDEO IS PUBLISHED.
I look forward to sharing this worthwhile project with all Norton enthusiasts around the world.
Some history of this Norton Commando:
It was discovered in the USA rusting away until it was shipped to auction. Disguised as a cafe racer this Commando found its way to a local dealer but little did anyone know that this was one of the very first production Commandos in existence. The earliest recorded production Commando was 126125. This Norton Commando serial is 126188 putting it into the very earliest period of the commando. In fact I welcome anyone to produce a frame engine and gearbox Commando with an earlier serial number. I would be most intrigued to see how many still survive from that period.
From the auction in the USA it was shipped across 4 states to eventually being shipped to France where it was put up again for auction on eBay. I was very lucky to spot it whilst on holiday in Mallorca. It was a perfect project for the type of aesthetic restoration work I undertake. The dealer very kindly drove through the night and through the covid restrictions to my workshop in England.
Unlike the Royal Enfield Bullet 350 restoration in Series 1 (which you should definitely watch), we will follow the progress week by week as opposed to a master class in restoration for each part of a vintage bike restore.
Yes if you are thinking about restoring an English / British made vintage motorbike then you just lucked out! This series brings back a most beautiful classic English super bike back to new factory condition.
I do not over polish or finish any restored bikes. I also do not believe in rusting patena examples. I reverse engineer the restoration to what the designer had envisioned and no more. That is how they were..Restore with great care and do what is right for the bike! - Авто та транспорт
I am the guy from Germany with the '68 Commando. Some time ago I wrote a comment about using the '68 frame on the road. It is great that you have started to work on the Norton again!
If you ask about my opinion regarding the engine: take it apart completely!
If it is done sensible, the stress for the casings are not that big. Forget about oilleaks, not at this place, not with modern sealands, there are other parts on the bike which are more prone for leaking after my experince.
But running the engine on the road and not having cleaned the sludge traps in the crank, not have visible checked the big end bearings of the conrods or the crankshaft journals, not have cleaned the casings from inside, would give me the creeps!!! Especially when using modern engine oils, which tend to loosen up all the old sludge and grime.
In both of my Norton twins, during restoration, the engines came apart, anything got cleaned, they got new big end bearing shells (even when the old ones were still acceptable), the conrods got polished and the cranks got a reground if necessary. The Commande is runnig great since 10 years with a few thousand miles every year and on the 99 I have done something about 70.000 km so far without engine trouble. After my opion, the extra work done for the engine pays off.
In the end you know nothing about how former owners treated the engine lubricantwise. Even if not the worst would happen and a conrod bearing give up and a conrod brakes, I probably would have a real bad day if after a painstakingly restoration and a few hundred (or thousand) miles running the bike, the engine start to rattle because of worn-out bearrings and anything has to come apart again. At the moment anything is apart, so why stop here?
Sorry if I am sounding too harsh, but at my Norton expert's the workshop, over the recent 25 years, I have seen so much engines blown apart, while people stopped the working at the wrong time. Or forget to open the newly intalled oil tap, of course...🙂
Well, enough for today. Two weeks ago, I was on a Norton Rally in Sweden with the Commando and next wednesday I will take the 99 to the Alps todo the Route de grandes Alpes and than back home from Mediterranean. It is no problem to use old Nortons in a decent way. 🙂
Looking forward for more vides to come!
Agree. I would go that extra mile......for peace of mind sake.🤔
Completely agree with your reasoning concerning the to split, or not to split debate..
I would not leave it to chance, split the cases and clean sludge trap, as far as sealing them back together, use Well Seal, its brilliant for sealing all seams and stays tacky. Please dont do half a job, check those traps!!
Split the case and check the crank shaft bearings. Quite possible they will need to be upgraded to roller bearings
Awesome press-fit close tolerance engineering on those road holder fork. Loved seeing you take them apart. Thanks for sharing!!!
I have a 62 royal Enfield 350. And I would say yes, the more you open the crank case the more it loses its integrity. At least that's what I have experienced. One more thing just love your dedication towards these oldies... They are truly amazing bikes to own
Thank you 🙏
In my opinion, it would be a major mistake to reassemble this engine without cleaning the sludge traps. Just because the big ends feel good, does not mean that all is well downstairs. Do it now as the motor is almost fully stripped anyway!
That is exactly what the person who 'restored' the Commando that I now have did. Silly mistake that save very little in the short term but costs a lot in the long run.
Hello Sir
Nice to see you working again on a new project
Can't wait to see the progress on the Bike
Over on the Access Norton forum (best place for all Norton knowledge), there are quite a few reports of heavily sludged crankshaft traps, especially on the older bikes without modern type oil filters (like this bike). The metal mesh screen on oil return plug and in the oil tank is not sufficient to trap micro particles or carbon/metals etc. These will accumulate in the trap and even at bottom on sump and oil tank when bike it left to stand for years. If allowed to accumulate, the trap will block high pressure oil reaching the big ends. Though this bike has evidence of crank removal in the past (renewed connecting rod), you do not know if the trap was cleaned then or how long ago it may have been cleaned. Do the spilt, replace the bearings and clean the trap for piece of mind.Ideally, fit the oil filter retrofit kit to the bike as a good measure.
Good thinking. I'd also wrap the con rods with shop cloths or use split-foam pipe insulators on the con rods. If the rods swivel into the edges of the mouth of the crankcases, they'll be "bruised" and those spots are stress-raisers which is exactly what you don't want.
@@brucebear1 I've seen toilet paper cardboard rolls used for that purpose ;-)
Pretty cool jobs you have going on there. Looking forward to your next instalment. You have a great channel!
The sludge trap/oil filter is inside the crankshaft, as its so hidden now is the best time to remove and clean it
Thanks for your comment. I’ll look into this
Yes, especially on a bike that does not run a modern type oil filter...just a wire mesh strainer on the sump oil pickup. So any micro particles in the oil will settle out in the crankshaft sludge trap. That can lead to oil starvation if bad enough....high pressure oil in sent through the crankshaft trap to feed the big end bearings.
When I was restoring my 850 I filled the crankcase with solvent and manually spun the crankshaft many times. Then drained the crankcase and filled it again. I repeated the process until the solvent drained clear.
@@pdm2201 That will not clean the sludge trap as it is a cavity withing the crankshaft flywheel. Only separating the two crankshaft halves lets you clean out the accumulated muck.
Agree with @lienst; crank sludge trap should be cleaned. "Ha'penneth of tar" and all that.
I’d say your crazy but I have seen your work on the guzzi so I look forward to seeing you work miracles
Another great video, thanks.
Brilliant 👏
As addition to @lienst: I own a 69 Fastback since 1997.
One day a colleague of mine told me that he had a Commando too.
I went to have look at it and it was a completely "chopperized" 1968 model, reimported from the US.
I had a look at the downtubes on the frame: the right one had snapped about 10cm below the headstock and you could clearly see the repair welds.
Another guy i talked to at a classic bike meeting told me, that he had the same snapped downtubes issue on his 68 frame.
There is an argument about why the breakages happen on some bikes.
Some say that those bikes were rudely dropped from the platform of the delivery lorry with the frontwheel first.
There are reports from people on the Access-Norton Forum who rode 68 Commandos for decades, without issues...and then the frame snapped.
Its not faulty manufacturing as on other frames that break.
The 68 frame is faulty by design.
About the engine: if you want to make it a "usable" bike an put some mileage into it, i would disassemble the enigine completely, split the the crank, clean the sludge trap and fit a fine oil filter kit as on the 72 onwards models.
After that you can run the engine with modern synthetic oils as well.
The original gauze in the sump plug only keeps bricks from flowing through the engine.
If you decide NOT to disassamle and want to keep it original: do NOT run the enigine with synthetic oil !!!
Synthetic oil will wash the debris from the trap and this will ruin the engine bearings.
Mineral oil will keep the dirt in the sludge trap.
Looking good. If the engine was apart recently, not sure I'd worry about spilting the cases to check the sludge trap. Can you reach out to the person who did the previous work and ask them?
I aways hear people talk about rebuilding a bike down to the sludge trap. I believe that's important but my question is this... if it is such a crucial job why didn't they (the bike manufactures and engineers) make it possible to clean the sludge trap with the crank in the engine? It doesn't seem like an impossible task to design it in such a way that you could pull the sludge trap out of the crank with just the head and jugs off, or through someplace on the bottom of the cases. It would have been nice if they had designed them that way.
I can’t ask unfortunately. This bike was found at an auction in the USA strapped to a pallet. It looks to have been been rebuilt at some point but I am starting to agree to strip it down. The advice has been worth it so far.
I split cases and the rod bolt stretched and broke after at 60mph. It broke cases.
Ive always wondered it torquing in 40° garage resulted in overtorquing.
Crank had sludge in it BTW. Just sad about wasting the parts.
@@philiphorner31 this project is on the back burner for the moment. I don’t know why. If my head is elsewhere I’m not risking this restoration until I’m ready. The case will be split due to overwhelming comments about sludge so that is the next unpleasant job. It’s always a risk when splitting old cases.. as you have pointed out!
Protect the conrods from banging against the engine casings. Even small nicks can later cause major damages
I take on board you points thank you Ulrich
They are soft aluminum with questionable lifespan.
I would too. I have to on my rat 1970 shed find, the cylinders was off the bike but the oil tank drained into the lower end and kept it lubed, who knows what fell in there. Any body know about cylinder base studs mine has mostly the small ones but a spare lower end that came with the bike has the larger ones.
I enjoy your videos and have learned from you. Any way to help support your channel ?
That’s a very kind gesture. My biggest challenges are time and hobbie money to buy the spare parts. That said I don’t much like the idea of starting a patreon funding page because I can’t 100% devote all my time to justifying the support. Thank you for you interest 👍
@@MyRestoration1 let me know . i have no problem. when i see your content i feel good about supporting
i support a few here. i would be happy toi help support your content
@@dugwthree thanks mate. I’m not sure what ‘support’ entails but happy to take this off line. You can find me on Facebook as a start.
Look forward to hearing from you. Rob
What has happened t the Commando? Did you finish the restoration?
Good question. I’m waiting for some very hard to find parts + I’m scratching an itch with the dirt bikes as a childhood memory. Don’t worry the Commando is a highlight of my restoration project.
Split the case.
To assume it’s ok, is as the saying goes .
Just bite the bullet and do it.
Yes I’m going to. Unwavering opinion in favour.
I know it is more work, but without splitting the cases, how do you know that an oil gallery is not gummed up and will cause the engine to seize? How do you know that the bearings ARE good rather than feel good? You are taking a big risk, it may pay off or a pitted bearing fails 2 years from now and a rod goes out the case.
Exactly that’s why I ask your opinions!
I am splitting the case after all the comments. Thank you 👍
It's better to split open and clean the whole engine. Put new bearings and seals. Don't just assemble it without completing the whole job.
It's better to do it now.
Haven’t had a Commando engine apart, so I can’t be sure, but on other British bikes the crank has a sludge trap in the big ends. These are quite important to clean out while the engine is open. The crank has to be removed for this job on Triumphs and BSAs.
Yes Phil this message seems to be coming through about the sludge trap. Thank you for your input 👍
crack that thing
Sludge Trap????
Yes I will be splitting it no question. I didn’t know about this amazing design..
My sentiments exactly.
These are great engines but dont overrev.