Costi, I read your book about your life and the prosperity gospel months ago. Had to leave my church of 27 years officially a few months ago. Gods grace brought me to a local church that preaches from the whole book of the Bible, and the worship is God-centered with no dark room/colored lights/smoke machines. Brings me to tears to sit under biblical teaching and not under topical teaching. I pray that my former body of believers, the pastors and elders especially humble themselves and learn from God and His Word. They are beautiful loving people- all of them. I love them.
When I became what for many years was sick with a mystery illness, we were flooded with Prosperity Gospel types, who definitely didn't help. Especially when they had been so close to my Mom (we were such a team in so much of life) and to me, they had heard Mom teach. They had been prayed for by us. Do the half hearted "pray harder" that ended in the half joking What is Pray Harder? Go get on my knees on the jagged rocks by the lake? Because the Bible, my constant communication with God has not said anything about whatever this pray harder thing is. I guess they settled on "Well, probably your parents or grandparents had unconfessed sin! And they ran away from us. There's no room in this... treating God like it's job to serve me garbage for God to ever say No. How many people have we all been inspired by who had an easy life? I would love to have been healed. It's very hard to have missed the time when my friends were getting married and having my babies. Now many of them are Grandparents! So I struggle. Often. But I tried to walk away from God, always ran right back. I hope people will see this and understand - if we don't get what we want? That doesn't mean God doesn't exist or doesn't like us. 💜
I went to a church where the pastor and leaders were like "untouchables". The congregants couldn't just go up and talk to them or hang out with them, you had to make an appointment, and even then you might not get to talk to them. I also heard leaders, pastors talk about if a youth didn't have talent that would benefit the churches growth and ministry, they wouldn't bother talking with them or helping them 😔 The church had a falling out, elders tried to rebuke the pastor and it blew up. Many left. Many are STILL hurt. It's very sad. The prosperity gospel is of the devil himself. God bless you BOTH for talking about this!!! It's needed so badly. Narcissists are found in the church a LOT.
Church is a hospital, not a prison. Sick people go there. Sick with the curse of sin. There are those who are sick, but willing to take their medicine. They remain sick but they learn to function. Others want help, but won't take their medicine. They stay sick. Glad your still praising God. You obviously know how to take your medicine 👍 Will keep you guys in prayer. Our leadership has been around almost 8 years now and we are just getting into a good place. The country club Christians, gossipers and back bitters WERE many, now they are few. Speak truth into any lies and stand strong on God's Firm Foundation of Scriptures. Have a blessed day.
Same with my church leaders are bullies covering for each other we have no rights we need to start taking this to court and getting right establish against this abuse and exploitation
I was raised in a Pentecostal church filled with Holy Spirit long before “charismatic” never cared for Benny. Don’t believe I’m going to be rich but believe God will provide for my needs. And always have. There is a balance. I want Jesus to Glorified and see people follow him.
This isn't our home so the basic needs being met is enough when we have such a loving God. The field is ripe, but the workers few. Keep doing your part and God bless.
Thank you for restoring balance. It's definitely possible to be pentecostal and not crazy or prosperity oriented and there are many true believers in that camp.
This was really good. I enjoyed this. I was spiritually abused, not just me but all the others from my former church. What a painful lesson but sadly many people turn away from church because of this, because of the deep hurt this causes. I'm still hanging on. No longer a Charismatic. I'm so glad I can be my quiet self and still be apart of the church. The thing that matters the most is a Biblical church but they are very hard to find. I do not want to go to a pop culture church.
Something about being in charismatic churches is that they manipulate your faith by subtly making you place it in blessings. Worship has been turned into worship so God will bless you, worship for the prophecies you have received, worship to move the hand of God, but no, worship is due to God because He is good, because what are these churches going to tell Christians in Afghanistan, that they aren’t blessed because they don’t worship enough, or loud enough? Spiritual abuse on many levels. The seeker friendly megachurches make you feel left out, and to be used it feels like you need to be their favorite before they place you in a place of service. It’s sad. I hope many wake up soon.
You won't like heaven because Revelation reveals to us that they're praising God up there with a loud voice. Those who have truly met the Lord and understand what Jesus did for them aren't quiet about it. How can you be! So you found the church where you can stay the way you are rather than conform to what the word of God says. Got it. Are you also quiet around lost centers? Are you so quiet you going to let them all go to hell without A word? The word of God says the righteous are as bold as a lion.
@@kingjames5527 Stand down. You don’t get to speak for someone else and what they will or won’t like about God, heaven or the like. You aren’t the authority on these matters. It’s clear that you feel justified in your holier than thou attitude…but it’s not a Godly look. Then again, maybe that’s not what you’re going for.
Thank you for sharing with us! I thank the Lord that you have a church home and have been delivered from the charismatic movement. I too have been delivered from the charismatic movement along with Word of Faith, prosperity and the NAR. God is so good!! God bless you sister!!
Thank you so much for what you do and for putting this out there. My stepson lost his leg when he was 4 due to a doctor putting a cast on too tight, and at the time my wife was a very active member at a “seeker” mega church. The response from people in her small group, and even one of the pastors, was that she “didn’t pray hard enough” to save his leg. That response led her down a path of deconstruction for a number of years. Thankfully, God never stops pursuing us, and He brought her back to His truth and an amazing relationship with Him, but it breaks my heart when I hear how “Christians” do this to their brothers and sisters. I personally think it’s more ignorance than maliciousness, but it’s a shame that “Christians” can be the biggest detriment to Christianity.
"Religious entrepreneurs" that is the PERFECT word! I'm conflicted about the idea of the seeker friendly mega-church as well. Maybe that can be a conversation for another American Gospel film.
Great discussion on the megachurch environment. I attended a megachurch in the Philadelphia area for years, but grew to be disconnected with the church over time. The singles ministry that had existed there operated as a "meet market" environment with no Christ centered ministry at all. The ministry died as a result, but the tragic part was that the ministry was NEVER replaced. Being single, I felt incredibly lost, neglected and forgotten. I now attend a local PCA church with a solid family and solid Biblical teachings every single week. There is an incredible spirit of reverence for the Lord. It's been the brightest and biggest light in my life over the last 10 years.
Wow, only 5 minutes in but this is already hitting home! I attended a prosperity gospel-type church where the pastor embezzled over $700k from his previous church but still owned a million-dollar home, ended up cheating on his wife and teared apart his family. Sadly, the church really went through quite a falling away because it turned out that many there really only cared about money and "humanity". Praise The Lord, they received a new pastor who preaches The Word fully, and even preaches on eschatology!!!
There is a multi-site church in a town near where I live. I remember when they opened their first "satellite." I wondered why they didn't simply plant a new church. I love that your guest is for planting new, not simply growing bigger. My husband is pastor of a very small country church. Before the pandemic we might have 40 people on Sunday morning. Recently we've been under 20 more than once. But he doesn't sacrifice truth to draw a crowd. He would rather tell a few people the truth, and lead them aright than lie to the multitude.
"God doesn't need us." This is SO important! Love that he kept coming back to this. This thinking keeps us humble. When we start to think that we are "the only ones" that can do "x" or "y" or "z", we run the risk of creating an oppressive atmosphere for those that are working with/for us. Not good. I was at an abusive church that did this (the pastor ended up in jail for sexual abuse) and I've seen ministries do this and really hurt people that are volunteering for them. If someone is not measuring up or is trying to hold a ministry accountable, they are labeled as tools of Satan to stop the "essential" ministry. This kind of thinking is a sure sign that spiritual abuse is around the corner (if not already occurring).
God does need us. He's a good Father. I have 3 boys, I need them, my life would be incomplete without them. When you hear leaders chide " God doesn't need you" it incites fear, that God is ambivalent and unconcerned. Typically you hear that from conservative traditional realms of Christianity, from literalists.
A friend of mine and I have been talking about this recently. We're waiting on the Lord, but it's coming. I've been praying for a church that would just preach truth.
No man can 'just preach truth'. Everyone likes to think they have the correct interpretation and the correct truth to pass on. A lot more humility would go a long way to being able to to acknowledge a pastor may be wrong and let people follow their own coincidences before God
An extremely timely subject. When I witnessed such abuses in my local Elim church, here in the UK, I was shocked by the prevalence of such abuses. What leads to such harmful practices? Well, as many from my church discovered, structures both aggressively and passively are often put in place merely to protect leaders and their harmful tactics. All whilst diminishing the voice of the congregants. Often, when money, attendance, and buildings are evidence of the success of a church, it may seem prudent for organisations to protect such individuals. Even if it's at odds with the bible and the character of Christ. However, in doing so they not only neglect their own responsibilities as leaders but in doing so become complicit in the damage often inflicted on those under their care.
You explain it so well. They set up the structure of the church to protect the leaders & make them appear to be so anointed w/revelation & faith...they can't be touched. They surround themselves w/groomed loyalists who will keep all questioners at bay. So the preaching becomes geared toward heavy handed doctrine about how awesome, blessed & anointed the said pastor is & they are untouchable. Therefore they use their power & authority to manipulate the members to submit to them & that church's abusive culture, whereby you are taught your blessing comes from sitting obediently under that "headship". I could go on & on, but Costi describes spiritual abuse beautifully & succinctly comparing it to what the definition of other abuses encompass & applying it to spiritual abuse. I've lived it & it was so hard to leave. At the time back in 2009 there wasn't all of the apologetics ministries on YT like there are now, so you went it alone as you did the best to deprogram yourself from the "cult" you left. It has been a difficult journey for me & I have had to undo 18 yrs of spiritual abuse at a time you weren't allowed to discuss such things. You left, often in shock, lost your friends, other members were told those who left were divisive & off in their spirits. You were marked as a black sheep so to speak, disgruntled, when all you wanted was to find real truth as opposed to living in the land of Oz, seeking things that God never promised us in the manner these churches teach. And when you left & pulled back the curtain of the "great OZ" aka the pastor, he was no more than a mere man w/a lot of spiritual smoke & mirrors & as Costi says...a religious entrepreneurial bent. The pastor apostle, bishop is the CEO & if you follow his leading, you too, may one day have all that his spiritual, religious ponzi scheme has brought to him. It had nothing to do w/true discipleship. It had everything to do w/ascending the ranks to get to the inner circle of the said anointed leader, thereby having arrived "spiritually" through alleged obedience & submission to a man, not to Christ Jesus our Lord.
I know I'm 1 year late to add my comment. I used to attend an Elim in London and got my share of pause from a leader. Just so you know, Elim was founded by George Jeffrey's but what they hide is the fact that he was 0usted in an aggressive manner not long after by someone else (sorry can't remember the name)so Elkm doesn't gave a hood foundation.
@@charlotttehogan8454 Yes the creation of Elim has some disturbing aspects to it. Modern day Elim may try to present a slick persona but I still meet many here in London who have been poorly treated and often damaged by Elim. However, money and attendance masks their abuse.
So wonderful how God used his wife to bring him to the truth. Wow! I will keep praying for his family. I was raised just like him. I met Benny a few times as a youth. I always told my mom I didn't like him. One year later we left the church and went to a church that taught the true word of God!
I love that he said his first ministry is his wife and kids! I think a lot of ministries fail because ministers neglect their families "for Christ's sake."
Man, this is all too familiar. My mother was pregnant when I was 9 and she miscarried. At that point in their lives, my dad was working in the ministry and a lot of their friends had started following a prosperity gospel preacher. There was a lot of talk about sickness always being the result of the individual's sin or lack of faith. Anytime somebody was sick, they would tell them not to receive it. So when mom miscarried, the condemnation came rolling in. Rather than showing any compassion to my hurting parents, people condemned them for "receiving it", "obvious sin in their lives", and their lack of faith. They lost a lot of friends through this. Some eventually came back to ask my parents' forgiveness (which they graciously gave), but others never did. It just left a really bad taste in my mouth, even at a young age.
Thank you so much for this, Alisa! I'm recovering after years of spiritual and emotional abuse at my church. This has been healing for my heart. Bless you ♡
This resonated with me so hard. I've endured so much spiritual abuse. I am so grateful that I've moved to an area where I've finally found a strong reformed church. I'm praying for continued healing in my family from the abuses we endured in those churches
A strong reformed church is also capable of spiritual abuse. I'm glad you've found a non-abusive church. The denomination is not what makes a church abusive or not, it's human beings that are abusive and it's not limited to certain denominations of churches.
Never a bad discussion with Costi, every podcast or talk brings me back to the bible and makes me think about where I am on my walk with God. The humility is inspiring. God does amazing things through you both! God bless ❤️🙏🏻🙌🏻
I’ve been involved in hyper-charismania and ultra-conservative Christianity, and I can tell you firsthand that there’s plenty of abuse on all sides. This webinar made some great points, but I felt that it wasn’t fair to spirit-filled Christians.
So true!!! I've also been to bother types and those in between and they all do this. Some are built around legalism and void of the Spirit and others are full of the Spirit and there's more pressure to have that evidence. Neither of these are good.
Dr. Walter Martin was a spirit filled Baptist minister who believed in the gifts of the Spirit, but also spoke out against the cults and prosperity televangelists. Look him up!
@Jill S. Hi Jill 😊 I’m referring to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit with gifts such as speaking in tongues or prophesying, which are described throughout the New Testament. Having these gifts does not put us in the category of hyper-charismania. Any belief-taken to an extreme-can become abusive. ❤️
Cried like a baby. One foot in front of the other, I will not let Satan win and keep me from Gods people. Church used to be my safe place and that is something I know is going to take time. Thank you, I believe this video is part of my healing process.
This interview was fantastic! I want to comment on the authority of the church, submission, and obedience that Costi mentions towards the end though. I find that to be a sticking point and not just because I came out of an abusive church. An important Greek lesson must be understood to understand these passages correctly. Here are the verses in question. Heb 13:7 Remember those who rule over you, who have spoken the word of God to you, whose faith follow, considering the outcome of conduct. Heb 13:17 Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you. The English word "obey" is used to translate the Greek word peíthō, pi'-tho and is defined as a primary verb; to convince (by argument, true or false) and is not the same word used else in scripture like Ephesians 6:1 Children obey your parents... hoop-ak-oo'-o; from G5259 and G191; to hear under (as a subordinate), i.e. to listen attentively; by implication, to heed or conform to a command or authority:-hearken, be obedient to, obey or 1 Peter 3:1 Wives obey your husbands... hupŏtassō, hoop-ot-as'-so; from G5259 and G5021; to subordinate; reflexively, to obey:-be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto Not only are they different Greek words, but they have completely different contexts and definitions. The point is, in Hebrews 13:17 the obedience offered by the one listening is CONDITIONAL to the listener being convinced of the truthfulness of the message. Just let that sink in. A pastor can NEVER say "submit" to you like a father can say to his son or a husband can say to his wife. In those cases submission is mandatory and the commandment of God given to those in that position, but in Hebrews it's purely a voluntary act. Therefore, if one becomes unconvinced or learns of conduct that is sinful, he has the duty to confront his leader (1 Tim 5:19-20) and/ or leave if the leader will not head the admonition (Titus 3:10-11). The fathers family must leave with their father as well, if he has one for they are certainly under his authority. With that established, verse 7 is easy to understand too. Just look at the last part, "considering their conduct". The listener is to willfully submit provided he is satisfied of the conduct of his elder. Again, it's clearly conditional. The conclusion then, is that the elders need to know who their caring for since they have to give an account, and the member is to willfully submit and not cause a ruckus provided they are convinced the character of the elder is upright and the message they preach is persuasive of being true. Because surely if what the elder is saying true to God's word then the submission is to God's word not the man preaching it. Big difference there. God Bless!
I think I still have trauma from my Dad getting heavily involved in the prosperity movement. He even fabricated a story of fake healing and Benny Hinn wrote about it in a book of his. Really dark stuff. Glad I had my Mom to make sure I didn’t believe any of that nonsense.
The book can be found online as a short PDF titled “Lord, I need a miracle”. His name was Charlie McLain. He was not healed. He died in the 90’s and never even told his kids he was sick. Then we were ignored and not allowed to attend his funeral (we were from a previous marriage). I’m almost 40 now and finally found out what he passed away from. My stepmother would only ever tell us that Satan killed him. Turns out it was advanced pancreatic cancer in his 40’s. Would’ve been nice to know, I guess. But all of this (coupled with the physical and spiritual abuse) left my wonderful mother, my older brother and I completely broken for many years. My brother is still lost. I, however, purchased a MacArthur Study Bible a few years ago and have now turned to that for the truth. Praise God, He works in amazing ways!! 🙏🏻
@@103erin So sorry to hear that. God will not waste the years of abuse you endured. I have been through it myself & have struggled for years to find the real truth of God's Word & who Jesus really is for us. I am going to pre-order Costi Hinn's new book. I already have Alisa's book which became an eye opener for me even though I never experienced being in a progressive church. I have, however, lived through a spiritually abusive church. I pray you find the real truth of God's Word & that He brings you the deep healing that only a true relationship w/Him in light of His Word, & who He is can bring.
@@mottgirl13 Amen!! 🙏🏻 She’s 74 now and we have the most amazing relationship. We’re best friends, and I know that was all in God’s plan. She’s also healthy as can be! Praise the Lord!
Thank you. After spiritual abuse as church secretary God continues as my faithful shepherd, a new flock and deeper growth upward and outward. Moving forward.
Ive seen spiritual abuse over an over again in Christian círcles, manipulation, verbal abuse, legalism, etc. It can only be battled with Scripture, Prayer and boldness to speak out against that with the Word and Full of HIS SPIRIT.
😥😥Thank you so so much for this. We are really struggling with things at our church and the path they seem to be on. We are so hungry for the meat and "deep waters" of solid deep theology in church, Clarity where we stand on culture issus and biblical worldview. ITs all breaking my heart. I was very encouraged by Costi quiet solid points and acknowledge it is happening. After 17 yrs with a wonderful church family sadly we are probably looking for another church soon.
I just did this. Left my church of 27 years. It’s wrenchingly hard. God had me sit and wait for many months. Then I wrote a letter that I had a respected couple that I know read and meet with me about. I made some changes based on their advice, then sent the letter to the pastor and all of the elders. After that I met with the pastor and a few elders and we parted in love but not agreement. I felt God tell me to visit local churches for 3 weeks in a row which would be enough time to get an understanding of that particular church. He has led me to a local church that teaches from whole books of the Bible. I’m starting to feel free, and it brings me to tears. It’s still really hard not to be present with my church family. But God IS faithful. I’m telling you this, not because my way is perfect but as encouragement. God had me sit and wait-study His word and pray for almost a year before I felt it was time to act. He knows you and will lead you in a way that is best for you.
My husband and I left our church he has attended for 17 years due to NAR/ WOF theology and doctrines coming in the church. It was hard especially because of all the friendships. However we came to the conclusion that out spiritual health and getting sound historical biblical teachings was more important. We tried to keep friendships from the previous church but it has been sad to see how many friendships didn't last beyond Sunday services. I encourage you to listen to Gods direction and the spiritual needs in your life. Our spiritual health isn't worth staying in a church that continues to go astray. God bless!
@@IwillsingtoGod @carrie dura Thank you so much for the encouraging words. My heart breaks hearing so many churches and even seminaries "drinking the koolaid" so to speak. We are waiting for the staff to respond to our letter as to how they are moving forward. But I honestly dont think they will change there mind right now.
Thank you for this interview. My husband is a pastor of a rural church and we were both very encouraged and challenged. Costi's humility and love for the Word my husband is blessed by and strives for. Thanks so much for this!
I grew up in the mega church indoctrination era and I have always felt like they preached more of "what God can do for you" instead of what our role is and what we are to do to serve him. I'm in my 30s and I am truly saved and enlightened just because i put my nose in the bible and quit relying on man to teach me about God.
Yeah. I remember a few years ago a pastor sharing that God doesn't need us to accomplish anything, but instead, he refocused the class to realize that God wants to include believers.
I’m Gen X - saved for 27 years now. I’m fed up. There are churches are on every corner in my town. No decent church teaching the Bible. There is a mega church that very much seems to be religious entrepreneur thing like Costi said. I’m grieved!!! I wish something would happen here…. I don’t even know how to pray for these Pastors. So many church buildings - so little truth.
Pray for the pastors to love the truth. Because many of them don't. Because once they love the truth they will no longer be interested in trying to preserve their own lives.
Gather together with others who believe the Bible to be the inerrant Word of God & study it together. Study & worship of the One True God & His word is the church.
I wish more pastors would have that kind of heart for their flocks. To care deeply for each person & not just about the numbers. So many people are not being prepared for that which is to come before we are called by Christ.
Don’t lose heart. Scripture says in the last days there would be a “famine” of the Word. Keep asking. He’ll take you to a healthy one. There’s still some around. 💛
When Costi mentioned making disciples make disciples, we tend to think like the people discipled us. That can be both comforting but also disturbing. Since Costi hold John MacArthur in high regard, he does tend to think like him where there are 2 types of Christians - those who understand God's Word with great depth which are the conservatives and those who are liberals. Costi can't seem to see the dangers of the extremist conservatives to which the far-right belongs. This because John MacArthur belongs to that group. MacArthur continues to deny that he is a Christian Nationalist but he continues to teach that one's political views determine they are true believers in Christ or not. MacArthur like to use the term "woke" to describe fake Christians and he believes that no Democrat can enter heaven regardless of their faith in Christ. MacArthur would deny this in one sermon and then confirm it in another sermon. He is basically talking on 2 sides of his mouth. To pervert the message of the gospel, the message that simple faith in Chriist and what He did on the cross saves us, and to add and poison it with MacArthur's political views is opure heresy. MacArthur has no business adding his political views to the gospel of Christ. His hatred of Democrats has made him senile and I hope his church elders notice that and advice him to retire from ministry before it gets worst.
My husband and I recently became members of what some would call a mega-church. Never in my Christian walk would I have thought we would worship in a church like this. We've learned not all large churches are seeker-friendly or unholy. Cherry Hills Community Church in Highlands Ranch, Colorado, teaches the hard truths in the bible. The teaching pastors never sugar-coat the truth. We came from a small fellowship and we loved it, but when our 70-year-old amazing pastor who raised us up as godly Christians retired and the new pastor of that church started preaching a milk message, we moved on. So I Just want to say, I know there's a lot of abuse and false teaching out there, but not all big churches are preaching watered-down seeker-friendly messages.
Yes they are. Sorry. In time you will see, if you have discernment. The cold hard truth does not appeal to the masses. Most large churches are literally under a spell and are cult like, and have very passionate strong charismatic pastors.
Wow what a story! My mom & her sisters were blessed by the ministry of Benny Hinn just by hearing the gospel. I have heard a bit of spiritual abuse stories & glad that this is being talked about. I heard a bit of what Costi said when someone would say “you’re not spirit filled if you don’t speak in touches everyday”. I remember how much that broke me & made me very worried as a young teen wanting to get closer to God. I. Glad I didn’t let that still effect me today. Great good point in using scripture on how there are other gifts the Holy Spirit give then just speaking in tongues. As someone who came from a Assemblies of God church and charismatic church it is something I hope the older people don’t push to much on the younger generation that just speaking in tongues mean your spirit filled. God bless you both very much & your families & ministries
I used to be in the prosperity gospel until GOD removed me from it 7 years ago, the church that GOD has me at now is a non denominational church with a very strong Baptist background and all we do is expository teaching. My church I belong to is a mega church, but it's a mega church for the same reasons that John MacArthur's is also, which is because the truth of the Gospel is being preached, we are a missionary church seeking to honor GOD with everything. It's so frustrating how the prosperity gospel has so many people manipulated, I was there but I'm grateful to GOD for removing me from it!
@@cathycummings2731 the church that I belong to is Grace Church in Eden Prairie, MN. You can see the sermons are strictly from the Scriptures. We are blue going through Revelation in our current sermon series.
Amen!!! Religious entrepreneurs is such a great word! I have been referring to it as a “belief system” to keep from bad mouthing it too badly. Coming out of Word of Faith after 11 years is one of the hardest things I have gone through next to my childhood. I am speaking out against it as much as I can, but I am so thankful for people like you two who have platforms that are doing this! 💕
I just found this video after listening to Alisa for a while now. Don’t know how I missed it, actually. But, man, was it helpful. I spent 20 years in the Assemblies of God and have run into a lot of arrogant pastors, faith healers, and prosperity preachers and it really started to not sit well with me a few years ago. I kept wondering why my dreams weren’t coming true. Kept thinking something was wrong with me. I guess I’ve had a skewed view of God for a long time. But now I feel better able to trust God than before and better able to put aside my spiritual insecurities.
How wonderful for you, Mr Hinn, to have recovered your Christian life. That truly speaks to the Power of our Lord, Jesus Christ, and His gift to all of us by the Holy Spirit. I am truly happy you have found peace and fulfillment. May God richly bless you, always.
Just wanted to jump on and share some of my thoughts because I understand why people have their reservations about mega churches. I grew up in North Coast Church the very one that Hinn is mentioning in the podcast. The issue there I wouldn't say is a lacking of deep honest gospel truth being taught, at least not when I was growing up there. The teaching there is spiritually sound but I would say a bigger issue is being able to build deep meaningful relationships with the people you commune with at church. There are SO MANY people that it ends up being more about the church experience for some people than getting together with your brothers and sisters in Christ to lift one another and worship with one another to fill us up again and recharge for the daily grind as Christians. This is extremely difficult in large churches. Again, I would be very cautious to say that all mega churches only give a very watered down message. It was at North Coast that I realized I wasn't living with a deep personal relationship with God where he was my LORD, reading his word daily, and seeking his will over my own.
Hi there, I’m another North Coaster and this potential problem is totally addressed with solution of Growth Groups (now called Life Groups). NCC has made it clear year after year (I’ve been attending for almost 20 years) that the church is lived in circles, not rows. Meaning, our fellowship in not meant to be experienced on Sunday mornings. NCC always prioritizes encouraging people to get connected in this way.
I am not a publicly replying sort of person but I feel his characterization of Larry Osborne and North Coast is not accurate, at all. Not all large churches are wrong- some - North Coast in particular is quenching the thirst for good, solid, expository teaching.
Alisa, thank you having Costi on your show. It was wonderful to hear his testimony and the unpopular steps he took to follow Christ, truly risking many relationships. I have been listening to Costi’s UA-cam videos and found them helpful. God bless you both.
I love this dialogue! Thank you Alisa for having this wise man of god share the wisdom god has given him about the church. Bless you and Costi for your faithfulness God’s truth.
Thank you Costi for your insight into spiritual abuse. I was brought up in that environment. I believe it leads us to become people pleases especially in relationships because if God who is Holy can withhold His love how much more do people in our lives withhold from us if we don't please them.
Very inspiring story! After being confronted the Word of Faith type ideas in my own church, I was on a search on what is this deceptive teaching, and how can I identify it. That searching lead me to Costi's prosperity gospel book. I immediately ordered it, then told my husband. He was quite skeptical because of the Hinn name! Now, it's one of his resources to identify and expose false teaching. We are grateful to find online resources, too. Thanks Alisa!
AMEN! I'm sick of shallow teaching! I want to DIVE and SWIM in the Word! I've been struggling to find a church that teaches truth and preaches the Bible from the pulpit. I started taking the initiative to read the Bible for myself, to find for myself what I couldn't find in the church. Reading biblical commentaries and expository teachings of the bible verse by verse has grown me as a Christian more in two years than 20 years in the lukewarm seeker church!
I really can't tell y'all how timely and cathartic this podcast is. My husband and I were both born with cystic fibrosis, a degenerative illness of the lungs and digestive system. I was not "supposed" to live past 8, and him, 18, but we're now 38 and 35 and while we still have frequent complications, we're thriving. But I can't tell you how many times we've been dismissed as not having "enough" faith simply because CF is still part of our DNA. We're currently on our third church in our hometown in East Texas, and we've heard it all - We've been called Jezebel spirits and kicked out for calling out deception in our leadership, been sat down for deliverances to "cast out" demons of CF and depression (during tougher health seasons), and dismissed as being, like Costi said, "weak-faithed" for deeply feeling our struggles, for questioning and doubting that the health and wealth movement might be false, and for believing that if Jesus learned obedience through suffering, how much more will we? It has been incredibly painful to walk through these seasons so dismissed and misunderstood, and I don't really even know why I'm sharing all of this. Usually I think it's silly, because what are the chances you'll actually read this? But sincerely... THANK YOU for speaking up. For the Truth, and for people like us. It heals a piece of me horizontally, as He heals it vertically, more than I can express.
Precious Farrel, You and your husband are such powerful examples of real faith. To face all the physical challenges and abuse from other believers and not be bitter or reject a relationship with Christ or His body is rare and beautiful. I know with all my heart that our Lord is so proud to call you His. Real faith is facing the heartbreaking trials of life and yet clinging to Him and His promises of hope.
You guys are walking miracles! I'm so sorry that bad theology has been so hurtful. These light and momentary afflictions are achieving a glory that far outweighs them all!💝
@@carynmason3421 Thank you, Caryn. I was just saying above to Pam, I really wasn't expecting any replies on this! So I really appreciate both of you taking the time to comfort and encourage our hearts.
I'm thankful to God for Costi Hinn ministry. If I had not seen him on Allen Parr show, I would continue with suicidal thoughts. My supervisor who was a pastor at my former church dangled training and moving to a different office over me not attending her church. I had to move to another city and it did not subside because she blackball me so badly that I'm being force out of this job or I'm closely watch. I really need a ministry to help me out of this.
Can you do a podcast addressing how to read the Bible after having it used against you? I know many like me who are stuck. I’m… almost begging 🙏 I want to treasure God’s word again after spiritual abuse.
This is sooo good if we have small church it's all good cause the more the true gospel is preah the people will come.. we just need Christ the center of them all
What is “middle of the road” if not lukewarm? “We have been trampling on what is sacred.” These words are heartbreaking - and true. Great episode, thank you Alisa and Costi. For so many of us, God has used these experiences to make us realize that we are starving and thirsting for the Real Living God. Praise be to Him.
This was fantastic. I've been so discouraged, and hearing this man who saw truth after living in something close to Truth having his eyes opened, and just being so humble before God... we as human beings, as people living in the United States, we are missing or forgetting that it's not about me. Selfie culture, living online & wanting our lives to look perfect... it's not helping anyone. We have to be willing to serve. To pt others first. And absolutely- it's so easy to find ourselves following a teacher, even a really great Bible teacher, rather than the Author of the Bible! The Creator & Redeemer. Thank you both for an honest, encouraging conversation.
Really great interview! I’m feeling super encouraged to hear God is on the move! I’d been part of a mega church and am healing from that experience. Never thought I would be in this place. On point with the description of shallowness of mega church and the entrepreneurship angle. Your explanation resonates so deeply and brings clarification along with helping me to compartmentalize what I experienced.
Awesome conversation with Costi....timely, biblically sound and guided by the Holy Spirit! Looking forward to reading your new book Costi. As well, I have complete faith that God is Sovereign, that Jesus is always by our side and that even when in the valley, we will have His peace. May the Lord continue to use you for His honor and glory. ❤🙏
Thank you both so much for your ministry! Costi, today was the first time I understood that you were Benny Hinn’s nephew. I have been listening to many of your messages on the redeemer AZ UA-cam site, a friend sent me a sermon series from 2019 that could’ve been preached yesterday. So powerful!! I have also had some great email exchanges with Jac Marino regarding resources for some New Age friends that I want to share with. I love my church family and the more I learn about how many churches are watering things down, I am so grateful to be somewhere that truth & doctrine are preached. Thank you so much for being so transparent and spreading truth! I may attend some of the Saturday evening services at Redeemer sometime (I live near old town Scottsdale in the Arcadia neighborhood). Alisa, thank you also for your ministry! I’ve learned so much and first became aware of Jac on your UA-cam channel so grateful that both of you are willing to be a light and truth in such a time of deception
You’re right on about mega churches being shallow. In 2019 God started calling my family out of the biggest SBC church here in Houston. We started by switching Sunday classes but were still restless. That restlessness was the Spirit opening our eyes to what was happening around us. Then 2020 came around and the fear that suddenly overcame the people was the last straw. Three years later I found an amazing small church just a few miles from my home. My first experience with the church was actually a FB conversation with the pastors wife!! My family has been regularly attending for about a year and a half and planning on becoming official members soon.
“Work hard and study…”. This hit home as a simple small-group leader. The tiny group who meets in my basement have been working through John for 17-months now, verse-by-verse. But halfway through, I began having my own religious-breakdown as I struggled in an ARC-church…eventually leaving. Now I have no church, no prayer-life, & haven’t been working through John w/ just God and I, his word and his Spirit, occasionally some old commentaries. It was better when I did that. I need to get back to that…
May I encourage you to do exactly what you said. That is the very best you can do. Study, ask and pray about everything you are reading and make it your very own personal mission. God's s intent is to transform you into a mature Christ follower. Don't look to be understood by anyone but God. If you want to be like Christ it will cost you everything.
Wow!! The only thing Costi has in common with his uncle is the last name. Talk about polar opposites!! It is no coincidence/accident, this is God righting the wrong done. Costi I pray for your continued humble heart for the Lord and his church. I love that you spoke with your team to set safeguards in place for getting too comfortable. That’s faithful, Christ-led leadership. Alisa, thank you as well for your own ministry. It’s clear the Lord has you where you are supposed to be. ❤️
My mom lead by dad to Christ while they were dating and she disciple him through out their marriage. When she was dying of cancer, he never left her side in the hospital. They finally gave him the bed beside her and offer him meals because he would not leave her even to eat. People would ask him why and he said he was loving his wife as Christ loved the church. His example lead me to Christ at a young age. The irony is that in China when my dad became ill and needed to go to the hospital. I was expected to stay with my father and they gave me a bed and three meals a day. I did stay with my father the until he we was well enough to leave and join our tour group. I thought it was strange that these Buddhist expected people to care for their family like Christ loved the church.
Interesting he mentioned “blue collar”. It’s sad how much one’s status can matter at church. Even a perceived status. It just does. As a child growing up in a growing mega church from an affluent area, I wish I had been more aware of my status as a Blue collar kid.
Loved this interview and talk. I go to Church of the Highlands in Tuscaloosa. I'm sure people are starting to refer to our church as a "mega-church" now but it so is not like that. We are not prosperity either by any shape form or fashion or 'progressive', whatever that is.... Chris Hodges is an amazingly humble pastor who does not live in some other realm. We do raise our hands when we worship and have contemporary music but I have not found any teaching thus far that isn't straight up Bible 101. It's non-denominational, where the emphasis is on finding and knowing God, giving Jesus your life and serving in what ever way He calls you to serve. The Highlands College is in Birmingham and is educating and preparing young people for a life in ministry. I'm sad for people who get mixed up in these abusive churches. So sad!!
I came in to a charismatic church w/o a doctrinal statement & experienced just about all you’ve talked about during those 18 yrs. I can relate. I do not disagree, generally, about the mega churches with 1 star pastors. I experienced the “yes men” gathered around these pastors, (just as much a problem in small churches). But would like to encourage you that there are quiet (what you would call mega churches), who have by Gods grace, focused on the right things: multi, accountable leadership with no one at the top, who’s aim is fingerprints everywhere but name nowhere. Who take turns preaching expositorily. Who’s focus is community, discipleship and evangelism, with 5 healthy church plants & many on mission field and so much ministry to community I wouldn’t know where to begin. It has been so healing to be here and know there is similar churches. Sometimes, in pointing out the sins going on in the churches we can lose hope of ever finding a “healthy” place to worship. Just wanted to say now that we’re getting some discernment under our belt, to hang on. (I was very skeptical) But…There are still godly leaders/churches out there.
Got to this one a little late. A very important topic, and I hope you do another one. At times it was a little too focused on word faith. I was in YWAM for 4 years and experienced spiritual abuse, and it still has an effect on who I am 25 years later. Sadly this experience causes many to leave the faith.
All events in our lives come to us for what we need to learn from them. "Ask and you shall receive." We may not be consciously asking for these lessons, but if we don't accept them as such, we will think we are just victims and the problem is only put upon the perpetrator. All problems come from believing we have a lack but we already live in an abundance of life, consider the lilies.
Thanks for the great episode, Alisa and Costi! I always enjoy hearing Costi share and I appreciate his unrelenting passion for biblical preaching. And thank YOU, Alisa, for creating your podcast! I’ve devoured nearly all of the episodes over this past year and found it hugely helpful in helping me better understand why I believe what I believe.
I've never heard Costi's testimony. I grew up Southern Baptist and desired more of God. The Lord led me to a charismatic church. There are plenty of issues with the charismatic church however, it breaks my heart to hear of Costi rejecting the prayer language God had given him. I sought the Lord fervently for my prayer language and received it after 9 months of asking for it. I honestly can't imagine rejecting the genuine and exchanging it for doctrines of men in cessationism. It truly breaks my heart. I can't imagine. My spirit is so grieved right now. You don't throw out the truth just because it came in a package that was messy. Seek the LORD - not doctrines of men! Paul said that he spoke in tongues more than anyone, and that when you pray in tongues you are speaking mysteries unto God. The gift of tongues in praying to God IS AVAILABLE TO ANYONE WHO WANTS IT!!! The corporate gift of speaking in tongues and interpretation is what all do not have. For goodness sake, don't reject the Holy Spirit and deny He can pray in mysteries through your vessel if you allow Him to do so.
At a Bible study the other nite, I was criticized by a campus pastor for 'over intelectualizing'. Before we got started that evening we were all encouraged to be open and free about our discussions, etc., just be respectful of others. But it seems that in this case, if you go too deep into things you're 'idolizing intellectualism'. This church seems to want to feed the sheep milk and honey, and when someone brings meat and potatoes they tend to gag on it. At least in this case.
@************************************ My intentions in that study were not to crack-wise, but were honorable. My sense is that this pastor was being pushed beyond his skill set and that by making subtle assertions he was trying to maintain control. Telling people they can be open and free with thier discussions, then stifling them like this is conflicting and confusing and says something about certainly this pasor, but perhaps about this church too.
I am 58 now. I started attending a church, on my own, at 11 years old. I had no idea who God was. Never heard of Jesus. I came from a large family where physical and mental abuse were the norm, and that included sexual. Everyone left by age 13 and 14. I was the baby on 9 by a different mother. I met one of my sisters when I 6 or 7. Another I met when I was 14. None of us were ever close. I grew up by myself with my two oldest siblings hateing me and beating me. Found out later dad put their full blooded brother u for adotion, so later it made more sense why they hated me. I know it wasnt my fault, but relationships are complicated. Turns out I was vaccine poisoned in 2nd grade and it literally almost killed me; however, it was the 70's and no one tied it together with my hyper activeness, as well as my melancholy and strangeness. This was before there were names for all the "victimhood" issues lol. For years they thought I was slow at schools, but they never asked questions. Later when I did attend church I was strange and super quiet and hyper emotional. I had adults in yourh groups call me names and threatened to beat me. But when I was by myself I felt safe and explored nature. God watched over me before I knew I needed help. One thinf I KNEW FOR SURE wss that GOD NEVER CAME OUT OF HEAVEN AND HURT ME. The God of the Bible, once I encountered Him at 11, was EXACTLY what the Scriptures said He was. I saw the adults rape and beat us, but God NEVER DID. Im so super blessed to have grown up when I did. No one told me I was a victim, though I was, and it forced me to dig deeer and reach out harder for God. Eventually, in looking back, I could literally see where God interviened and keep me safe. I left home at 15 and adults, including "Christians" were calling me worthless. Pushing me away and not willing to help me. I was chemically unbalanced and had no idea what was wrong with me. I was scared around most people. Lied a lot to try and fit in. Self debasing. I was sure I was the problem, but God constantly watched over me, protected me. Even when I sat in an alley trying to stay warm or hungry. He fed me without me even neededing to ask. God brought me to fairh, helped me sustain my faith and eventually educated me by leading to the right teachers of Gods word. There is soooo much more I have to leave out due to time and space here, but all-in-all I think I was blessed and not cursed. Only God can do that. I tried suicide at 13 but I didnt know what they meant by "pills". So I drank a lot of whiskey with a bunch of aspirin. Not good. I was highly ignorant, but not stupid. Church people and non church people did some damage, but God bypassed them all. I asked to understand Him and he did exactly what He romises. He gave me knowledge, understanding and finally.......some wisdom. My faith is amazing, though Im still screwy lol. I dont doubt God. He has verified everything Ive tested. Im so grateful. I have a church that is great. Its full of sinners, hypocrites, angry old people, and haters. Yet, the other half is learning, growing and overcoming. We do have a solid leadershi this last 7 years. Many have left because our leaders stick to scritural truths and the old country club group is starting to realize what accountability is. We have a lot of Baptisms, outreach programs for all ages, developed to create closer spiritual relationshis and I am so blessed. May the peace of God find your heart open and full of forgiveness, weyher someone deserves it or not, because in all honesty I killed Jesus and absolutely didnt deserve the love, mercy and grace God freely gave me. No victimhood in 2025. Come on team we can do it 😊
Just living proof that Jesus, who is The Truth, The Life, The way! Enjoyed your guest and that delightful burst of Truth. People hunger for the Truth, Jesus is that Truth. Thank's for be straight up and telling the truth not only about the current mess that is The SBC, when people speak to the problems truthfully it fills my heart, and I suspect other Hearts with Hope. Thank, this was good. And I'm glad it ended on don't blame Jesus for how others, Pastors or just the ordinary layman/woman act. Stick with Christ Jesus, I promise you He is well worthy of your trust. People lets us down,
I read 1 Cor. 12:30 along with nearby verses. While it could be interpreted as is done in this video, it seems more likely that it means that everyone does not have the same gift.
Not that simple when friendships & relationships are involved & you have put your time, treasure & talent in a church supposedly serving God. It's a tangled web they weave of guilt & condemnation when you go against the grain & question the leader on the platform.
@@barbs1298 All the more reason to leave it all behind. No one can compel anyone to remain in such a hellhole unless they choose to allow it. Get up and walk out as a testimony against them.
@@miketype1each exactly! True friends will never make you fill guilty or manipulate you. I'm at that time in my life I will and did dust off my feet and find a church that is Biblically sound.
@@barbs1298 Barb you are so right. There are many religions where the children and vulnerable people are unable decern what is right and wrong. Emotional abuse is a powerful thing. It is the person who never experienced such emotional abuse would say, I would walk away without looking back
People can have the best of intentions but they can become hooked on having influence on other people's lives, being always right and being the ones through whom God will speak the truth...and you should listen and obey - or else! I was brought up to believe that I should always ask what I should do and listen to a certain Christian. If I didn't want to do what she said and became anxious because I was afraid I had chosen something God didn't want me to do (normal stuff, like what should I study) and then failed because of that anxiety then I was told that "things weren't meant to be". Things that I was pressured to do "were meant to be". This type of interaction continued well over few decades. My family member acted horribly towards me indirectly and sometimes directly if I wanted to do something else than what this certain Christian said I should do. My faith nearly died because of this - and might actually still die. No atheist would ever have come close to doing that. These Christians meant well and I care about them but there was power involved with extremely negative consequences on my life. I felt like I couldn't make any decisions of my own because if I chose the wrong thing then everything would fail because God only blesses the right choices. I really don't trust people. They will call their own opinions God's will.
This conversation is such an encouraging word! A reminder to me that our Lord is sovereign and He IS good! And you so very well illustrate the need for all Christ followers to be bible literate. We must know truth to recognize the lies. And in learning and knowing that truth (loving the Lord with our mind) we love God more (with our hearts). Thank you!
Costi, I read your book about your life and the prosperity gospel months ago. Had to leave my church of 27 years officially a few months ago. Gods grace brought me to a local church that preaches from the whole book of the Bible, and the worship is God-centered with no dark room/colored lights/smoke machines. Brings me to tears to sit under biblical teaching and not under topical teaching. I pray that my former body of believers, the pastors and elders especially humble themselves and learn from God and His Word. They are beautiful loving people- all of them. I love them.
I identified with what you are saying. I too will like to see my last church of 25 years come back to the word of God.
Me too. Needed to leave that lukewarm church
When I became what for many years was sick with a mystery illness, we were flooded with Prosperity Gospel types, who definitely didn't help. Especially when they had been so close to my Mom (we were such a team in so much of life) and to me, they had heard Mom teach. They had been prayed for by us. Do the half hearted "pray harder" that ended in the half joking What is Pray Harder? Go get on my knees on the jagged rocks by the lake? Because the Bible, my constant communication with God has not said anything about whatever this pray harder thing is. I guess they settled on "Well, probably your parents or grandparents had unconfessed sin! And they ran away from us.
There's no room in this... treating God like it's job to serve me garbage for God to ever say No. How many people have we all been inspired by who had an easy life? I would love to have been healed. It's very hard to have missed the time when my friends were getting married and having my babies. Now many of them are Grandparents! So I struggle. Often. But I tried to walk away from God, always ran right back. I hope people will see this and understand - if we don't get what we want? That doesn't mean God doesn't exist or doesn't like us. 💜
I went to a church where the pastor and leaders were like "untouchables". The congregants couldn't just go up and talk to them or hang out with them, you had to make an appointment, and even then you might not get to talk to them. I also heard leaders, pastors talk about if a youth didn't have talent that would benefit the churches growth and ministry, they wouldn't bother talking with them or helping them 😔 The church had a falling out, elders tried to rebuke the pastor and it blew up. Many left. Many are STILL hurt. It's very sad.
The prosperity gospel is of the devil himself. God bless you BOTH for talking about this!!! It's needed so badly. Narcissists are found in the church a LOT.
It's like your talking about my church. Growth in numbers make men rise or fall. Our pastor is using Leadershift as the holy grail..
When they say YOU WILL BE USED OF god, they mean it, you will be used.....
Found in most churches....all denominations....too common😢
Church is a hospital, not a prison. Sick people go there. Sick with the curse of sin.
There are those who are sick, but willing to take their medicine. They remain sick but they learn to function.
Others want help, but won't take their medicine. They stay sick.
Glad your still praising God. You obviously know how to take your medicine 👍
Will keep you guys in prayer. Our leadership has been around almost 8 years now and we are just getting into a good place. The country club Christians, gossipers and back bitters WERE many, now they are few. Speak truth into any lies and stand strong on God's Firm Foundation of Scriptures.
Have a blessed day.
Same with my church leaders are bullies covering for each other we have no rights we need to start taking this to court and getting right establish against this abuse and exploitation
I was raised in a Pentecostal church filled with Holy Spirit long before “charismatic” never cared for Benny. Don’t believe I’m going to be rich but believe God will provide for my needs. And always have. There is a balance. I want Jesus to Glorified and see people follow him.
This isn't our home so the basic needs being met is enough when we have such a loving God.
The field is ripe, but the workers few. Keep doing your part and God bless.
How's your faith journey now? Are you still in the charismatic church?
Thank you for restoring balance. It's definitely possible to be pentecostal and not crazy or prosperity oriented and there are many true believers in that camp.
The Prosperity Gospel is NOT the only type of church/spiritual abuse. Anyone can fall victim of church abuse and it is as simple as verbal abuse.
💯% correct
Very true. I have experienced spiritual abuse in a church that otherwise preaches the Bible.
This was really good. I enjoyed this. I was spiritually abused, not just me but all the others from my former church. What a painful lesson but sadly many people turn away from church because of this, because of the deep hurt this causes. I'm still hanging on. No longer a Charismatic. I'm so glad I can be my quiet self and still be apart of the church. The thing that matters the most is a Biblical church but they are very hard to find. I do not want to go to a pop culture church.
Something about being in charismatic churches is that they manipulate your faith by subtly making you place it in blessings. Worship has been turned into worship so God will bless you, worship for the prophecies you have received, worship to move the hand of God, but no, worship is due to God because He is good, because what are these churches going to tell Christians in Afghanistan, that they aren’t blessed because they don’t worship enough, or loud enough? Spiritual abuse on many levels. The seeker friendly megachurches make you feel left out, and to be used it feels like you need to be their favorite before they place you in a place of service. It’s sad. I hope many wake up soon.
You won't like heaven because Revelation reveals to us that they're praising God up there with a loud voice. Those who have truly met the Lord and understand what Jesus did for them aren't quiet about it. How can you be! So you found the church where you can stay the way you are rather than conform to what the word of God says. Got it. Are you also quiet around lost centers? Are you so quiet you going to let them all go to hell without A word?
The word of God says the righteous are as bold as a lion.
@@kingjames5527 Stand down. You don’t get to speak for someone else and what they will or won’t like about God, heaven or the like. You aren’t the authority on these matters. It’s clear that you feel justified in your holier than thou attitude…but it’s not a Godly look. Then again, maybe that’s not what you’re going for.
Thank you for sharing with us! I thank the Lord that you have a church home and have been delivered from the charismatic movement. I too have been delivered from the charismatic movement along with Word of Faith, prosperity and the NAR. God is so good!! God bless you sister!!
It's abuse not 'spiritual', but carnal abuse.
Thank you so much for what you do and for putting this out there. My stepson lost his leg when he was 4 due to a doctor putting a cast on too tight, and at the time my wife was a very active member at a “seeker” mega church. The response from people in her small group, and even one of the pastors, was that she “didn’t pray hard enough” to save his leg. That response led her down a path of deconstruction for a number of years. Thankfully, God never stops pursuing us, and He brought her back to His truth and an amazing relationship with Him, but it breaks my heart when I hear how “Christians” do this to their brothers and sisters. I personally think it’s more ignorance than maliciousness, but it’s a shame that “Christians” can be the biggest detriment to Christianity.
"Religious entrepreneurs" that is the PERFECT word! I'm conflicted about the idea of the seeker friendly mega-church as well. Maybe that can be a conversation for another American Gospel film.
Great discussion on the megachurch environment. I attended a megachurch in the Philadelphia area for years, but grew to be disconnected with the church over time. The singles ministry that had existed there operated as a "meet market" environment with no Christ centered ministry at all. The ministry died as a result, but the tragic part was that the ministry was NEVER replaced. Being single, I felt incredibly lost, neglected and forgotten.
I now attend a local PCA church with a solid family and solid Biblical teachings every single week. There is an incredible spirit of reverence for the Lord. It's been the brightest and biggest light in my life over the last 10 years.
I’m in the Philadelphia area as well…still searching for the church of brotherly love… Thanks for sharing your experience.
Amen!! !
Wow, only 5 minutes in but this is already hitting home! I attended a prosperity gospel-type church where the pastor embezzled over $700k from his previous church but still owned a million-dollar home, ended up cheating on his wife and teared apart his family. Sadly, the church really went through quite a falling away because it turned out that many there really only cared about money and "humanity". Praise The Lord, they received a new pastor who preaches The Word fully, and even preaches on eschatology!!!
Wow...where was this?
I’m sure smaller churches can, and have suffered similar fates
Costi’s Defining Deception is a great book for gaining doctrinal discernment.
Thank you
The church is hemmoraging ppl, all of this mental gymnastic is nothing more than damage control..
There is a multi-site church in a town near where I live. I remember when they opened their first "satellite." I wondered why they didn't simply plant a new church. I love that your guest is for planting new, not simply growing bigger. My husband is pastor of a very small country church. Before the pandemic we might have 40 people on Sunday morning. Recently we've been under 20 more than once. But he doesn't sacrifice truth to draw a crowd. He would rather tell a few people the truth, and lead them aright than lie to the multitude.
"God doesn't need us." This is SO important! Love that he kept coming back to this. This thinking keeps us humble. When we start to think that we are "the only ones" that can do "x" or "y" or "z", we run the risk of creating an oppressive atmosphere for those that are working with/for us. Not good. I was at an abusive church that did this (the pastor ended up in jail for sexual abuse) and I've seen ministries do this and really hurt people that are volunteering for them. If someone is not measuring up or is trying to hold a ministry accountable, they are labeled as tools of Satan to stop the "essential" ministry. This kind of thinking is a sure sign that spiritual abuse is around the corner (if not already occurring).
God does need us. He's a good Father. I have 3 boys, I need them, my life would be incomplete without them. When you hear leaders chide " God doesn't need you" it incites fear, that God is ambivalent and unconcerned. Typically you hear that from conservative traditional realms of Christianity, from literalists.
A friend of mine and I have been talking about this recently. We're waiting on the Lord, but it's coming. I've been praying for a church that would just preach truth.
No man can 'just preach truth'. Everyone likes to think they have the correct interpretation and the correct truth to pass on. A lot more humility would go a long way to being able to to acknowledge a pastor may be wrong and let people follow their own coincidences before God
An extremely timely subject. When I witnessed such abuses in my local Elim church, here in the UK, I was shocked by the prevalence of such abuses. What leads to such harmful practices? Well, as many from my church discovered, structures both aggressively and passively are often put in place merely to protect leaders and their harmful tactics. All whilst diminishing the voice of the congregants. Often, when money, attendance, and buildings are evidence of the success of a church, it may seem prudent for organisations to protect such individuals. Even if it's at odds with the bible and the character of Christ. However, in doing so they not only neglect their own responsibilities as leaders but in doing so become complicit in the damage often inflicted on those under their care.
You explain it so well. They set up the structure of the church to protect the leaders & make them appear to be so anointed w/revelation & faith...they can't be touched. They surround themselves w/groomed loyalists who will keep all questioners at bay. So the preaching becomes geared toward heavy handed doctrine about how awesome, blessed & anointed the said pastor is & they are untouchable. Therefore they use their power & authority to manipulate the members to submit to them & that church's abusive culture, whereby you are taught your blessing comes from sitting obediently under that "headship".
I could go on & on, but Costi describes spiritual abuse beautifully & succinctly comparing it to what the definition of other abuses encompass & applying it to spiritual abuse. I've lived it & it was so hard to leave. At the time back in 2009 there wasn't all of the apologetics ministries on YT like there are now, so you went it alone as you did the best to deprogram yourself from the "cult" you left.
It has been a difficult journey for me & I have had to undo 18 yrs of spiritual abuse at a time you weren't allowed to discuss such things. You left, often in shock, lost your friends, other members were told those who left were divisive & off in their spirits. You were marked as a black sheep so to speak, disgruntled, when all you wanted was to find real truth as opposed to living in the land of Oz, seeking things that God never promised us in the manner these churches teach. And when you left & pulled back the curtain of the "great OZ" aka the pastor, he was no more than a mere man w/a lot of spiritual smoke & mirrors & as Costi says...a religious entrepreneurial bent. The pastor apostle, bishop is the CEO & if you follow his leading, you too, may one day have all that his spiritual, religious ponzi scheme has brought to him. It had nothing to do w/true discipleship. It had everything to do w/ascending the ranks to get to the inner circle of the said anointed leader, thereby having arrived "spiritually" through alleged obedience & submission to a man, not to Christ Jesus our Lord.
This was beautifully said! Thank you!!
I know I'm 1 year late to add my comment. I used to attend an Elim in London and got my share of pause from a leader.
Just so you know, Elim was founded by George Jeffrey's but what they hide is the fact that he was 0usted in an aggressive manner not long after by someone else (sorry can't remember the name)so Elkm doesn't gave a hood foundation.
@@charlotttehogan8454 Yes the creation of Elim has some disturbing aspects to it. Modern day Elim may try to present a slick persona but I still meet many here in London who have been poorly treated and often damaged by Elim. However, money and attendance masks their abuse.
So wonderful how God used his wife to bring him to the truth. Wow! I will keep praying for his family. I was raised just like him. I met Benny a few times as a youth. I always told my mom I didn't like him. One year later we left the church and went to a church that taught the true word of God!
I love that he said his first ministry is his wife and kids! I think a lot of ministries fail because ministers neglect their families "for Christ's sake."
Man, this is all too familiar. My mother was pregnant when I was 9 and she miscarried. At that point in their lives, my dad was working in the ministry and a lot of their friends had started following a prosperity gospel preacher. There was a lot of talk about sickness always being the result of the individual's sin or lack of faith. Anytime somebody was sick, they would tell them not to receive it.
So when mom miscarried, the condemnation came rolling in. Rather than showing any compassion to my hurting parents, people condemned them for "receiving it", "obvious sin in their lives", and their lack of faith. They lost a lot of friends through this. Some eventually came back to ask my parents' forgiveness (which they graciously gave), but others never did. It just left a really bad taste in my mouth, even at a young age.
I’m so sorry. I experienced this too!
I thank God for the loving church he has me in now.
That breaks my heart… 😢
“Preach The Bible” Stop the theatrics and just preach The Bible!! What a concept for The Church! Really appreciate this video!!
Thank you so much for this, Alisa! I'm recovering after years of spiritual and emotional abuse at my church. This has been healing for my heart. Bless you ♡
This resonated with me so hard. I've endured so much spiritual abuse. I am so grateful that I've moved to an area where I've finally found a strong reformed church. I'm praying for continued healing in my family from the abuses we endured in those churches
A strong reformed church is also capable of spiritual abuse. I'm glad you've found a non-abusive church. The denomination is not what makes a church abusive or not, it's human beings that are abusive and it's not limited to certain denominations of churches.
Though some (prosperity gospel), are more prone to it with their false teachings.
Never a bad discussion with Costi, every podcast or talk brings me back to the bible and makes me think about where I am on my walk with God. The humility is inspiring. God does amazing things through you both! God bless ❤️🙏🏻🙌🏻
I’ve been involved in hyper-charismania and ultra-conservative Christianity, and I can tell you firsthand that there’s plenty of abuse on all sides. This webinar made some great points, but I felt that it wasn’t fair to spirit-filled Christians.
So true!!! I've also been to bother types and those in between and they all do this. Some are built around legalism and void of the Spirit and others are full of the Spirit and there's more pressure to have that evidence. Neither of these are good.
They are Baptist what do you expect?
Dr. Walter Martin was a spirit filled Baptist minister who believed in the gifts of the Spirit, but also spoke out against the cults and prosperity televangelists. Look him up!
I completely agree.
@Jill S. Hi Jill 😊 I’m referring to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit with gifts such as speaking in tongues or prophesying, which are described throughout the New Testament. Having these gifts does not put us in the category of hyper-charismania. Any belief-taken to an extreme-can become abusive. ❤️
I love Costi Hinn.He has such a gentle spirit.God bless him and Alisa too
Cried like a baby. One foot in front of the other, I will not let Satan win and keep me from Gods people. Church used to be my safe place and that is something I know is going to take time. Thank you, I believe this video is part of my healing process.
This interview was fantastic!
I want to comment on the authority of the church, submission, and obedience that Costi mentions towards the end though. I find that to be a sticking point and not just because I came out of an abusive church. An important Greek lesson must be understood to understand these passages correctly.
Here are the verses in question.
Heb 13:7
Remember those who rule over you, who have spoken the word of God to you, whose faith follow, considering the outcome of conduct.
Heb 13:17
Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.
The English word "obey" is used to translate the Greek word peíthō, pi'-tho and is defined as a primary verb; to convince (by argument, true or false) and is not the same word used else in scripture like Ephesians 6:1 Children obey your parents...
hoop-ak-oo'-o; from G5259 and G191; to hear under (as a subordinate), i.e. to listen attentively; by implication, to heed or conform to a command or authority:-hearken, be obedient to, obey
or 1 Peter 3:1 Wives obey your husbands...
hupŏtassō, hoop-ot-as'-so; from G5259 and G5021; to subordinate; reflexively, to obey:-be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto
Not only are they different Greek words, but they have completely different contexts and definitions.
The point is, in Hebrews 13:17 the obedience offered by the one listening is CONDITIONAL to the listener being convinced of the truthfulness of the message. Just let that sink in. A pastor can NEVER say "submit" to you like a father can say to his son or a husband can say to his wife. In those cases submission is mandatory and the commandment of God given to those in that position, but in Hebrews it's purely a voluntary act. Therefore, if one becomes unconvinced or learns of conduct that is sinful, he has the duty to confront his leader (1 Tim 5:19-20) and/ or leave if the leader will not head the admonition (Titus 3:10-11). The fathers family must leave with their father as well, if he has one for they are certainly under his authority.
With that established, verse 7 is easy to understand too. Just look at the last part, "considering their conduct". The listener is to willfully submit provided he is satisfied of the conduct of his elder. Again, it's clearly conditional.
The conclusion then, is that the elders need to know who their caring for since they have to give an account, and the member is to willfully submit and not cause a ruckus provided they are convinced the character of the elder is upright and the message they preach is persuasive of being true. Because surely if what the elder is saying true to God's word then the submission is to God's word not the man preaching it. Big difference there.
God Bless!
I think I still have trauma from my Dad getting heavily involved in the prosperity movement. He even fabricated a story of fake healing and Benny Hinn wrote about it in a book of his. Really dark stuff. Glad I had my Mom to make sure I didn’t believe any of that nonsense.
The book can be found online as a short PDF titled “Lord, I need a miracle”. His name was Charlie McLain. He was not healed. He died in the 90’s and never even told his kids he was sick. Then we were ignored and not allowed to attend his funeral (we were from a previous marriage). I’m almost 40 now and finally found out what he passed away from. My stepmother would only ever tell us that Satan killed him. Turns out it was advanced pancreatic cancer in his 40’s. Would’ve been nice to know, I guess. But all of this (coupled with the physical and spiritual abuse) left my wonderful mother, my older brother and I completely broken for many years. My brother is still lost. I, however, purchased a MacArthur Study Bible a few years ago and have now turned to that for the truth. Praise God, He works in amazing ways!! 🙏🏻
Kaya, it's by the grace of God that you escaped these lies. Trust God's word--He never lies. He is also the Comforter.
@@103erin So sorry to hear that. God will not waste the years of abuse you endured. I have been through it myself & have struggled for years to find the real truth of God's Word & who Jesus really is for us. I am going to pre-order Costi Hinn's new book. I already have Alisa's book which became an eye opener for me even though I never experienced being in a progressive church. I have, however, lived through a spiritually abusive church. I pray you find the real truth of God's Word & that He brings you the deep healing that only a true relationship w/Him in light of His Word, & who He is can bring.
@kaya thank you for sharing. Thank God for mothers with Godly discernment.
@@mottgirl13 Amen!! 🙏🏻 She’s 74 now and we have the most amazing relationship. We’re best friends, and I know that was all in God’s plan. She’s also healthy as can be! Praise the Lord!
Thank you. After spiritual abuse as church secretary God continues as my faithful shepherd, a new flock and deeper growth upward and outward. Moving forward.
Proud of you. I’ve prayed for church admins knowing they see it all!
Ive seen spiritual abuse over an over again in Christian círcles, manipulation, verbal abuse, legalism, etc. It can only be battled with Scripture, Prayer and boldness to speak out against that with the Word and Full of HIS SPIRIT.
😥😥Thank you so so much for this. We are really struggling with things at our church and the path they seem to be on. We are so hungry for the meat and "deep waters" of solid deep theology in church, Clarity where we stand on culture issus and biblical worldview. ITs all breaking my heart. I was very encouraged by Costi quiet solid points and acknowledge it is happening. After 17 yrs with a wonderful church family sadly we are probably looking for another church soon.
I just did this. Left my church of 27 years. It’s wrenchingly hard. God had me sit and wait for many months. Then I wrote a letter that I had a respected couple that I know read and meet with me about. I made some changes based on their advice, then sent the letter to the pastor and all of the elders. After that I met with the pastor and a few elders and we parted in love but not agreement. I felt God tell me to visit local churches for 3 weeks in a row which would be enough time to get an understanding of that particular church. He has led me to a local church that teaches from whole books of the Bible. I’m starting to feel free, and it brings me to tears. It’s still really hard not to be present with my church family. But God IS faithful. I’m telling you this, not because my way is perfect but as encouragement. God had me sit and wait-study His word and pray for almost a year before I felt it was time to act. He knows you and will lead you in a way that is best for you.
My husband and I left our church he has attended for 17 years due to NAR/ WOF theology and doctrines coming in the church. It was hard especially because of all the friendships. However we came to the conclusion that out spiritual health and getting sound historical biblical teachings was more important. We tried to keep friendships from the previous church but it has been sad to see how many friendships didn't last beyond Sunday services. I encourage you to listen to Gods direction and the spiritual needs in your life. Our spiritual health isn't worth staying in a church that continues to go astray. God bless!
@@IwillsingtoGod @carrie dura Thank you so much for the encouraging words. My heart breaks hearing so many churches and even seminaries "drinking the koolaid" so to speak. We are waiting for the staff to respond to our letter as to how they are moving forward. But I honestly dont think they will change there mind right now.
Thank you for this interview. My husband is a pastor of a rural church and we were both very encouraged and challenged. Costi's humility and love for the Word my husband is blessed by and strives for. Thanks so much for this!
Thank you for this clip. It's brutally honest and oh so necessary. People are hungry for the truth and the truth is found in the Word of God.
I grew up in the mega church indoctrination era and I have always felt like they preached more of "what God can do for you" instead of what our role is and what we are to do to serve him. I'm in my 30s and I am truly saved and enlightened just because i put my nose in the bible and quit relying on man to teach me about God.
Yeah. I remember a few years ago a pastor sharing that God doesn't need us to accomplish anything, but instead, he refocused the class to realize that God wants to include believers.
I’m Gen X - saved for 27 years now. I’m fed up. There are churches are on every corner in my town. No decent church teaching the Bible.
There is a mega church that very much seems to be religious entrepreneur thing like Costi said.
I’m grieved!!! I wish something would happen here…. I don’t even know how to pray for these Pastors. So many church buildings - so little truth.
Pray for the pastors to love the truth. Because many of them don't. Because once they love the truth they will no longer be interested in trying to preserve their own lives.
Gather together with others who believe the Bible to be the inerrant Word of God & study it together. Study & worship of the One True God & His word is the church.
I wish more pastors would have that kind of heart for their flocks. To care deeply for each person & not just about the numbers. So many people are not being prepared for that which is to come before we are called by Christ.
Don’t lose heart. Scripture says in the last days there would be a “famine” of the Word. Keep asking. He’ll take you to a healthy one. There’s still some around. 💛
When Costi mentioned making disciples make disciples, we tend to think like the people discipled us. That can be both comforting but also disturbing. Since Costi hold John MacArthur in high regard, he does tend to think like him where there are 2 types of Christians - those who understand God's Word with great depth which are the conservatives and those who are liberals. Costi can't seem to see the dangers of the extremist conservatives to which the far-right belongs. This because John MacArthur belongs to that group. MacArthur continues to deny that he is a Christian Nationalist but he continues to teach that one's political views determine they are true believers in Christ or not. MacArthur like to use the term "woke" to describe fake Christians and he believes that no Democrat can enter heaven regardless of their faith in Christ. MacArthur would deny this in one sermon and then confirm it in another sermon. He is basically talking on 2 sides of his mouth. To pervert the message of the gospel, the message that simple faith in Chriist and what He did on the cross saves us, and to add and poison it with MacArthur's political views is opure heresy. MacArthur has no business adding his political views to the gospel of Christ. His hatred of Democrats has made him senile and I hope his church elders notice that and advice him to retire from ministry before it gets worst.
Love the way he speaks about Christine.
Me too. My hearts desire is to be just like Christine, as she imitates the servanthood Christ taught. I loved the way he spoke about her.
At what point does he mention her?
My husband and I recently became members of what some would call a mega-church. Never in my Christian walk would I have thought we would worship in a church like this. We've learned not all large churches are seeker-friendly or unholy. Cherry Hills Community Church in Highlands Ranch, Colorado, teaches the hard truths in the bible. The teaching pastors never sugar-coat the truth. We came from a small fellowship and we loved it, but when our 70-year-old amazing pastor who raised us up as godly Christians retired and the new pastor of that church started preaching a milk message, we moved on. So I Just want to say, I know there's a lot of abuse and false teaching out there, but not all big churches are preaching watered-down seeker-friendly messages.
Yes they are. Sorry. In time you will see, if you have discernment. The cold hard truth does not appeal to the masses. Most large churches are literally under a spell and are cult like, and have very passionate strong charismatic pastors.
Wow what a story! My mom & her sisters were blessed by the ministry of Benny Hinn just by hearing the gospel. I have heard a bit of spiritual abuse stories & glad that this is being talked about. I heard a bit of what Costi said when someone would say “you’re not spirit filled if you don’t speak in touches everyday”. I remember how much that broke me & made me very worried as a young teen wanting to get closer to God. I. Glad I didn’t let that still effect me today. Great good point in using scripture on how there are other gifts the Holy Spirit give then just speaking in tongues. As someone who came from a Assemblies of God church and charismatic church it is something I hope the older people don’t push to much on the younger generation that just speaking in tongues mean your spirit filled. God bless you both very much & your families & ministries
I used to be in the prosperity gospel until GOD removed me from it 7 years ago, the church that GOD has me at now is a non denominational church with a very strong Baptist background and all we do is expository teaching. My church I belong to is a mega church, but it's a mega church for the same reasons that John MacArthur's is also, which is because the truth of the Gospel is being preached, we are a missionary church seeking to honor GOD with everything. It's so frustrating how the prosperity gospel has so many people manipulated, I was there but I'm grateful to GOD for removing me from it!
Glad for you but I pray these “big name” godly pastors are bringing up godly teachers behind them.
@@cathycummings2731 the church that I belong to is Grace Church in Eden Prairie, MN. You can see the sermons are strictly from the Scriptures. We are blue going through Revelation in our current sermon series.
I was just wondering what people meant by “spiritual abuse”
So excited to hear this!! Thanks!!
Amen!!! Religious entrepreneurs is such a great word! I have been referring to it as a “belief system” to keep from bad mouthing it too badly. Coming out of Word of Faith after 11 years is one of the hardest things I have gone through next to my childhood. I am speaking out against it as much as I can, but I am so thankful for people like you two who have platforms that are doing this! 💕
I just found this video after listening to Alisa for a while now. Don’t know how I missed it, actually. But, man, was it helpful. I spent 20 years in the Assemblies of God and have run into a lot of arrogant pastors, faith healers, and prosperity preachers and it really started to not sit well with me a few years ago. I kept wondering why my dreams weren’t coming true. Kept thinking something was wrong with me. I guess I’ve had a skewed view of God for a long time. But now I feel better able to trust God than before and better able to put aside my spiritual insecurities.
I've had exposure to the charismatic movement, but am now an LCMS Lutheran and I'm hollering AMEN!! PRAISE THE LORD!!
How wonderful for you, Mr Hinn, to have recovered your Christian life. That truly speaks to the Power of our Lord, Jesus Christ, and His gift to all of us by the Holy Spirit. I am truly happy you have found peace and fulfillment. May God richly bless you, always.
Just wanted to jump on and share some of my thoughts because I understand why people have their reservations about mega churches. I grew up in North Coast Church the very one that Hinn is mentioning in the podcast. The issue there I wouldn't say is a lacking of deep honest gospel truth being taught, at least not when I was growing up there. The teaching there is spiritually sound but I would say a bigger issue is being able to build deep meaningful relationships with the people you commune with at church. There are SO MANY people that it ends up being more about the church experience for some people than getting together with your brothers and sisters in Christ to lift one another and worship with one another to fill us up again and recharge for the daily grind as Christians. This is extremely difficult in large churches. Again, I would be very cautious to say that all mega churches only give a very watered down message. It was at North Coast that I realized I wasn't living with a deep personal relationship with God where he was my LORD, reading his word daily, and seeking his will over my own.
Hence the value of small groups within the larger body.
Hi there, I’m another North Coaster and this potential problem is totally addressed with solution of Growth Groups (now called Life Groups). NCC has made it clear year after year (I’ve been attending for almost 20 years) that the church is lived in circles, not rows. Meaning, our fellowship in not meant to be experienced on Sunday mornings. NCC always prioritizes encouraging people to get connected in this way.
I am not a publicly replying sort of person but I feel his characterization of Larry Osborne and North Coast is not accurate, at all. Not all large churches are wrong- some - North Coast in particular is quenching the thirst for good, solid, expository teaching.
WOW! Thank you Alisa and Costi! Let's get back to teaching the bible in church and then watch God work.
Alisa, thank you having Costi on your show. It was wonderful to hear his testimony and the unpopular steps he took to follow Christ, truly risking many relationships. I have been listening to Costi’s UA-cam videos and found them helpful. God bless you both.
I love this dialogue! Thank you Alisa for having this wise man of god share the wisdom god has given him about the church. Bless you and Costi for your faithfulness God’s truth.
SOOOOOO MUCH COURAGE to leave his family's legacy. Good for you sir in breaking free from the lies!
Thank you Costi for your insight into spiritual abuse. I was brought up in that environment. I believe it leads us to become people pleases especially in relationships because if God who is Holy can withhold His love how much more do people in our lives withhold from us if we don't please them.
Very inspiring story! After being confronted the Word of Faith type ideas in my own church, I was on a search on what is this deceptive teaching, and how can I identify it. That searching lead me to Costi's prosperity gospel book. I immediately ordered it, then told my husband. He was quite skeptical because of the Hinn name! Now, it's one of his resources to identify and expose false teaching. We are grateful to find online resources, too. Thanks Alisa!
Thank you for covering this topic. I have experienced spiritual abuse and counseled so many women who have experienced abuse as well.
I’ve turned my heart to the God of Isreal
Who alone is God and there is no one besides him . ❤
AMEN! I'm sick of shallow teaching! I want to DIVE and SWIM in the Word! I've been struggling to find a church that teaches truth and preaches the Bible from the pulpit. I started taking the initiative to read the Bible for myself, to find for myself what I couldn't find in the church. Reading biblical commentaries and expository teachings of the bible verse by verse has grown me as a Christian more in two years than 20 years in the lukewarm seeker church!
I really can't tell y'all how timely and cathartic this podcast is. My husband and I were both born with cystic fibrosis, a degenerative illness of the lungs and digestive system. I was not "supposed" to live past 8, and him, 18, but we're now 38 and 35 and while we still have frequent complications, we're thriving. But I can't tell you how many times we've been dismissed as not having "enough" faith simply because CF is still part of our DNA. We're currently on our third church in our hometown in East Texas, and we've heard it all - We've been called Jezebel spirits and kicked out for calling out deception in our leadership, been sat down for deliverances to "cast out" demons of CF and depression (during tougher health seasons), and dismissed as being, like Costi said, "weak-faithed" for deeply feeling our struggles, for questioning and doubting that the health and wealth movement might be false, and for believing that if Jesus learned obedience through suffering, how much more will we? It has been incredibly painful to walk through these seasons so dismissed and misunderstood, and I don't really even know why I'm sharing all of this. Usually I think it's silly, because what are the chances you'll actually read this? But sincerely... THANK YOU for speaking up. For the Truth, and for people like us. It heals a piece of me horizontally, as He heals it vertically, more than I can express.
Precious Farrel,
You and your husband are such powerful examples of real faith. To face all the physical challenges and abuse from other believers and not be bitter or reject a relationship with Christ or His body is rare and beautiful. I know with all my heart that our Lord is so proud to call you His. Real faith is facing the heartbreaking trials of life and yet clinging to Him and His promises of hope.
You guys are walking miracles! I'm so sorry that bad theology has been so hurtful. These light and momentary afflictions are achieving a glory that far outweighs them all!💝
@@pamedwards4356 Thank you, Pam. I really wasn't expecting any replies on this! I appreciate you taking the time to comfort and encourage our hearts.
@@carynmason3421 Thank you, Caryn. I was just saying above to Pam, I really wasn't expecting any replies on this! So I really appreciate both of you taking the time to comfort and encourage our hearts.
This is a great interview. Please keep doing such videos. It has touched me on so many points. Thanks, Alisa Childers & Costi Hinn. 👍
“Don’t blame Christ for His disciplines!’ 🗣🗣🗣
Thank you Alisa for having Costi on your show. Love his ministry and love your podcast !! Soli deo gloria!
I'm thankful to God for Costi Hinn ministry. If I had not seen him on Allen Parr show, I would continue with suicidal thoughts. My supervisor who was a pastor at my former church dangled training and moving to a different office over me not attending her church. I had to move to another city and it did not subside because she blackball me so badly that I'm being force out of this job or I'm closely watch. I really need a ministry to help me out of this.
Blown away by the honesty in your words, praise to our Lord Jesus, he is the one and only one we need !
That is so true.There is a generation that risen up that wants truth.
Can you do a podcast addressing how to read the Bible after having it used against you? I know many like me who are stuck. I’m… almost begging 🙏 I want to treasure God’s word again after spiritual abuse.
This is sooo good if we have small church it's all good cause the more the true gospel is preah the people will come.. we just need Christ the center of them all
What is “middle of the road” if not lukewarm? “We have been trampling on what is sacred.” These words are heartbreaking - and true. Great episode, thank you Alisa and Costi. For so many of us, God has used these experiences to make us realize that we are starving and thirsting for the Real Living God. Praise be to Him.
This was fantastic. I've been so discouraged, and hearing this man who saw truth after living in something close to Truth having his eyes opened, and just being so humble before God... we as human beings, as people living in the United States, we are missing or forgetting that it's not about me.
Selfie culture, living online & wanting our lives to look perfect... it's not helping anyone. We have to be willing to serve. To pt others first. And absolutely- it's so easy to find ourselves following a teacher, even a really great Bible teacher, rather than the Author of the Bible! The Creator & Redeemer. Thank you both for an honest, encouraging conversation.
Really great interview! I’m feeling super encouraged to hear God is on the move! I’d been part of a mega church and am healing from that experience. Never thought I would be in this place. On point with the description of shallowness of mega church and the entrepreneurship angle. Your explanation resonates so deeply and brings clarification along with helping me to compartmentalize what I experienced.
Awesome conversation with Costi....timely, biblically sound and guided by the Holy Spirit! Looking forward to reading your new book Costi. As well, I have complete faith that God is Sovereign, that Jesus is always by our side and that even when in the valley, we will have His peace. May the Lord continue to use you for His honor and glory. ❤🙏
Thank you both so much for your ministry! Costi, today was the first time I understood that you were Benny Hinn’s nephew. I have been listening to many of your messages on the redeemer AZ UA-cam site, a friend sent me a sermon series from 2019 that could’ve been preached yesterday. So powerful!! I have also had some great email exchanges with Jac Marino regarding resources for some New Age friends that I want to share with. I love my church family and the more I learn about how many churches are watering things down, I am so grateful to be somewhere that truth & doctrine are preached. Thank you so much for being so transparent and spreading truth! I may attend some of the Saturday evening services at Redeemer sometime (I live near old town Scottsdale in the Arcadia neighborhood). Alisa, thank you also for your ministry! I’ve learned so much and first became aware of Jac on your UA-cam channel so grateful that both of you are willing to be a light and truth in such a time of deception
You’re right on about mega churches being shallow. In 2019 God started calling my family out of the biggest SBC church here in Houston. We started by switching Sunday classes but were still restless. That restlessness was the Spirit opening our eyes to what was happening around us. Then 2020 came around and the fear that suddenly overcame the people was the last straw.
Three years later I found an amazing small church just a few miles from my home. My first experience with the church was actually a FB conversation with the pastors wife!! My family has been regularly attending for about a year and a half and planning on becoming official members soon.
“Work hard and study…”. This hit home as a simple small-group leader. The tiny group who meets in my basement have been working through John for 17-months now, verse-by-verse. But halfway through, I began having my own religious-breakdown as I struggled in an ARC-church…eventually leaving. Now I have no church, no prayer-life, & haven’t been working through John w/ just God and I, his word and his Spirit, occasionally some old commentaries.
It was better when I did that. I need to get back to that…
May I encourage you to do exactly what you said. That is the very best you can do. Study, ask and pray about everything you are reading and make it your very own personal mission. God's s intent is to transform you into a mature Christ follower. Don't look to be understood by anyone but God. If you want to be like Christ it will cost you everything.
Wow!! The only thing Costi has in common with his uncle is the last name. Talk about polar opposites!! It is no coincidence/accident, this is God righting the wrong done.
Costi I pray for your continued humble heart for the Lord and his church. I love that you spoke with your team to set safeguards in place for getting too comfortable. That’s faithful, Christ-led leadership.
Alisa, thank you as well for your own ministry. It’s clear the Lord has you where you are supposed to be. ❤️
My mom lead by dad to Christ while they were dating and she disciple him through out their marriage. When she was dying of cancer, he never left her side in the hospital. They finally gave him the bed beside her and offer him meals because he would not leave her even to eat. People would ask him why and he said he was loving his wife as Christ loved the church. His example lead me to Christ at a young age. The irony is that in China when my dad became ill and needed to go to the hospital. I was expected to stay with my father and they gave me a bed and three meals a day. I did stay with my father the until he we was well enough to leave and join our tour group. I thought it was strange that these Buddhist expected people to care for their family like Christ loved the church.
It's normal to care for and honor parents in many Asian cultures. They are horrified that Americans put their elders in nursing homes.
Interesting he mentioned “blue collar”. It’s sad how much one’s status can matter at church. Even a perceived status. It just does. As a child growing up in a growing mega church from an affluent area, I wish I had been more aware of my status as a Blue collar kid.
Loved this interview and talk. I go to Church of the Highlands in Tuscaloosa. I'm sure people are starting to refer to our church as a "mega-church" now but it so is not like that. We are not prosperity either by any shape form or fashion or 'progressive', whatever that is.... Chris Hodges is an amazingly humble pastor who does not live in some other realm. We do raise our hands when we worship and have contemporary music but I have not found any teaching thus far that isn't straight up Bible 101. It's non-denominational, where the emphasis is on finding and knowing God, giving Jesus your life and serving in what ever way He calls you to serve. The Highlands College is in Birmingham and is educating and preparing young people for a life in ministry. I'm sad for people who get mixed up in these abusive churches. So sad!!
Great words spoken. May the presence of Holy Spirit bring truth to those who hear.
One of the best interviews! Thank you Costi, thank you Alisa. I learned so much and will go back and listen again
Ahhh....your hair looks FANTASTIC 🥰
I'm so excited to listen in...I first saw Costi in American Gospel❤️🙏
I noticed that too!
Really?
"Make every soul important"!!!! YES. Pastors - EVERY soul Hid brings to your church needs to matter dearly to you!!
I came in to a charismatic church w/o a doctrinal statement & experienced just about all you’ve talked about during those 18 yrs. I can relate. I do not disagree, generally, about the mega churches with 1 star pastors. I experienced the “yes men” gathered around these pastors, (just as much a problem in small churches). But would like to encourage you that there are quiet (what you would call mega churches), who have by Gods grace, focused on the right things: multi, accountable leadership with no one at the top, who’s aim is fingerprints everywhere but name nowhere. Who take turns preaching expositorily. Who’s focus is community, discipleship and evangelism, with 5 healthy church plants & many on mission field and so much ministry to community I wouldn’t know where to begin. It has been so healing to be here and know there is similar churches. Sometimes, in pointing out the sins going on in the churches we can lose hope of ever finding a “healthy” place to worship. Just wanted to say now that we’re getting some discernment under our belt, to hang on. (I was very skeptical) But…There are still godly leaders/churches out there.
I was in a church and if you left you were considered a backslider by many. I loved the people but hated the control.
Religious entrepreneur. Interesting. Wow. I can see that and can see it as a machine. Loosing discipleship in the process. THIS IS SO GOOD!
This is SO good! I am sending this to all my close friends and family. Thank you Alisa for your ministry. God Bless. ❤❤❤
So encouraged. Thank you. Can’t wait to read the book.
Zoomer here. Thanks for all the Biblical teachings and the powerful experiences with heresy and coming to faith.
Got to this one a little late. A very important topic, and I hope you do another one. At times it was a little too focused on word faith. I was in YWAM for 4 years and experienced spiritual abuse, and it still has an effect on who I am 25 years later. Sadly this experience causes many to leave the faith.
All events in our lives come to us for what we need to learn from them. "Ask and you shall receive." We may not be consciously asking for these lessons, but if we don't accept them as such, we will think we are just victims and the problem is only put upon the perpetrator.
All problems come from believing we have a lack but we already live in an abundance of life, consider the lilies.
Thanks for the great episode, Alisa and Costi! I always enjoy hearing Costi share and I appreciate his unrelenting passion for biblical preaching. And thank YOU, Alisa, for creating your podcast! I’ve devoured nearly all of the episodes over this past year and found it hugely helpful in helping me better understand why I believe what I believe.
This was so so good and impactful. Thank you, Costi and Alisa, for your ministries.
I've never heard Costi's testimony. I grew up Southern Baptist and desired more of God. The Lord led me to a charismatic church. There are plenty of issues with the charismatic church however, it breaks my heart to hear of Costi rejecting the prayer language God had given him. I sought the Lord fervently for my prayer language and received it after 9 months of asking for it. I honestly can't imagine rejecting the genuine and exchanging it for doctrines of men in cessationism. It truly breaks my heart. I can't imagine. My spirit is so grieved right now. You don't throw out the truth just because it came in a package that was messy. Seek the LORD - not doctrines of men! Paul said that he spoke in tongues more than anyone, and that when you pray in tongues you are speaking mysteries unto God. The gift of tongues in praying to God IS AVAILABLE TO ANYONE WHO WANTS IT!!! The corporate gift of speaking in tongues and interpretation is what all do not have. For goodness sake, don't reject the Holy Spirit and deny He can pray in mysteries through your vessel if you allow Him to do so.
This was such a blessing to hear from Costing Hinn!!! Gods blessings to you all, thanks again and a big Amen!!!
Love how Costi talks about his wife and the roles of other wives in ministry. 🥰
At a Bible study the other nite, I was criticized by a campus pastor for 'over intelectualizing'.
Before we got started that evening we were all encouraged to be open and free about our discussions, etc., just be respectful
of others. But it seems that in this case, if you go too deep into things you're 'idolizing intellectualism'.
This church seems to want to feed the sheep milk and honey, and when someone brings meat and potatoes they tend to gag on it. At least in this case.
@************************************ My intentions in that study were not to crack-wise, but were honorable. My sense is that this pastor was being pushed beyond his skill set and that by making subtle assertions he was trying to maintain control. Telling people they can be open and free with thier discussions, then stifling them like this is conflicting and confusing and says something about certainly this pasor, but perhaps about this church too.
I am 58 now. I started attending a church, on my own, at 11 years old. I had no idea who God was. Never heard of Jesus.
I came from a large family where physical and mental abuse were the norm, and that included sexual. Everyone left by age 13 and 14. I was the baby on 9 by a different mother. I met one of my sisters when I 6 or 7. Another I met when I was 14. None of us were ever close. I grew up by myself with my two oldest siblings hateing me and beating me. Found out later dad put their full blooded brother u for adotion, so later it made more sense why they hated me. I know it wasnt my fault, but relationships are complicated.
Turns out I was vaccine poisoned in 2nd grade and it literally almost killed me; however, it was the 70's and no one tied it together with my hyper activeness, as well as my melancholy and strangeness. This was before there were names for all the "victimhood" issues lol.
For years they thought I was slow at schools, but they never asked questions.
Later when I did attend church I was strange and super quiet and hyper emotional. I had adults in yourh groups call me names and threatened to beat me.
But when I was by myself I felt safe and explored nature. God watched over me before I knew I needed help. One thinf I KNEW FOR SURE wss that GOD NEVER CAME OUT OF HEAVEN AND HURT ME. The God of the Bible, once I encountered Him at 11, was EXACTLY what the Scriptures said He was. I saw the adults rape and beat us, but God NEVER DID.
Im so super blessed to have grown up when I did. No one told me I was a victim, though I was, and it forced me to dig deeer and reach out harder for God. Eventually, in looking back, I could literally see where God interviened and keep me safe.
I left home at 15 and adults, including "Christians" were calling me worthless. Pushing me away and not willing to help me. I was chemically unbalanced and had no idea what was wrong with me. I was scared around most people. Lied a lot to try and fit in. Self debasing. I was sure I was the problem, but God constantly watched over me, protected me. Even when I sat in an alley trying to stay warm or hungry. He fed me without me even neededing to ask.
God brought me to fairh, helped me sustain my faith and eventually educated me by leading to the right teachers of Gods word.
There is soooo much more I have to leave out due to time and space here, but all-in-all I think I was blessed and not cursed. Only God can do that. I tried suicide at 13 but I didnt know what they meant by "pills". So I drank a lot of whiskey with a bunch of aspirin. Not good. I was highly ignorant, but not stupid.
Church people and non church people did some damage, but God bypassed them all. I asked to understand Him and he did exactly what He romises. He gave me knowledge, understanding and finally.......some wisdom. My faith is amazing, though Im still screwy lol. I dont doubt God. He has verified everything Ive tested.
Im so grateful. I have a church that is great. Its full of sinners, hypocrites, angry old people, and haters. Yet, the other half is learning, growing and overcoming. We do have a solid leadershi this last 7 years. Many have left because our leaders stick to scritural truths and the old country club group is starting to realize what accountability is. We have a lot of Baptisms, outreach programs for all ages, developed to create closer spiritual relationshis and I am so blessed.
May the peace of God find your heart open and full of forgiveness, weyher someone deserves it or not, because in all honesty I killed Jesus and absolutely didnt deserve the love, mercy and grace God freely gave me.
No victimhood in 2025. Come on team we can do it 😊
"God will takes his sheep and place them somewhere else"
Love this!!!
God bless you Costi Hinn and Alisa,
Just living proof that Jesus, who is The Truth, The Life, The way! Enjoyed your guest and that delightful burst of Truth. People hunger for the Truth, Jesus is that Truth. Thank's for be straight up and telling the truth not only about the current mess that is The SBC, when people speak to the problems truthfully it fills my heart, and I suspect other Hearts with Hope. Thank, this was good. And I'm glad it ended on don't blame Jesus for how others, Pastors or just the ordinary layman/woman act. Stick with Christ Jesus, I promise you He is well worthy of your trust. People lets us down,
I read 1 Cor. 12:30 along with nearby verses. While it could be interpreted as is done in this video, it seems more likely that it means that everyone does not have the same gift.
I listen to your podcasts regularly. This one is right there at the top. AMEN!! This message was SO powerful. Thank you, both!
Do what people do when confronted with a bad movie in a theater: Get up and walk out.
Not that simple when friendships & relationships are involved & you have put your time, treasure & talent in a church supposedly serving God. It's a tangled web they weave of guilt & condemnation when you go against the grain & question the leader on the platform.
@@barbs1298 All the more reason to leave it all behind. No one can compel anyone to remain in such a hellhole unless they choose to allow it. Get up and walk out as a testimony against them.
@@miketype1each exactly! True friends will never make you fill guilty or manipulate you. I'm at that time in my life I will and did dust off my feet and find a church that is Biblically sound.
@@barbs1298 Barb you are so right. There are many religions where the children and vulnerable people
are unable decern what is right and wrong. Emotional abuse is a powerful thing. It is the person who never experienced such emotional abuse would say, I would walk away without looking back
People can have the best of intentions but they can become hooked on having influence on other people's lives, being always right and being the ones through whom God will speak the truth...and you should listen and obey - or else!
I was brought up to believe that I should always ask what I should do and listen to a certain Christian. If I didn't want to do what she said and became anxious because I was afraid I had chosen something God didn't want me to do (normal stuff, like what should I study) and then failed because of that anxiety then I was told that "things weren't meant to be". Things that I was pressured to do "were meant to be".
This type of interaction continued well over few decades. My family member acted horribly towards me indirectly and sometimes directly if I wanted to do something else than what this certain Christian said I should do. My faith nearly died because of this - and might actually still die. No atheist would ever have come close to doing that. These Christians meant well and I care about them but there was power involved with extremely negative consequences on my life. I felt like I couldn't make any decisions of my own because if I chose the wrong thing then everything would fail because God only blesses the right choices. I really don't trust people. They will call their own opinions God's will.
In the words of Alisa Childers, so good, so good!
This conversation is such an encouraging word! A reminder to me that our Lord is sovereign and He IS good! And you so very well illustrate the need for all Christ followers to be bible literate. We must know truth to recognize the lies. And in learning and knowing that truth (loving the Lord with our mind) we love God more (with our hearts). Thank you!