From Christianity to Progressive Christianity and Back Again, with Josh Morris
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Former Progressive Christian Josh Morris walks us through the spiritual abuse that led to his deconstruction into progressive Christianity, and the discovery of a book that ultimately led him back to a historic and biblical faith.
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I was also raised Assemblies Of God, fell for progressive Christianity after church abuse and then came back as a reformed Christian. So thankful to God!!!
Praise the Lord. All Glory to God. Jesus is Lord.
I have a similar story. Grew up Assembly of God, was a totally unregenerate “cultural Christian” for years until God saved me about a year ago and I discovered Biblical (Reformed) Theology.
Haven't finished the video, but I got to that part.
I was also raised AG, but I think my old church was pretty theologically sound. My concern is that he paints Pentecostals and AG people in a broad strokes when there are a lot that don't twist scripture to match the culture. I'll watch the rest of the video to find out. I'm non-denominational now (but not reformed), but that's another story lol
@@MusicFilmArtGuy09 My experience was that of a very strange kind of legalism and high school type cliques. The 1st commandment was to always be “nice” but all kinds of gossip and slander were tolerated. It felt more like a social club than a church.
I was raised Assemblies of God, but did not fall for false doctrine because my parents, who taught Sunday school, made sure that I was well grounded in the Word of God. They taught me to study the Bible on my own & to check everything that was taught or preached (even from the pulpit) against Scripture. They also emphasized holiness, without which no man will see the Lord.
It saddens me that the A/G denomination gets such a bad rap. I thank God for the A/G church we were members of. It wasn’t weird & unbiblical like the churches I hear talked about these days (like Bethel). I presently attend a Southern Baptist church because I agree with their doctrine. Also, each A/G church is independently governed & I fear getting involved in something strange.
I unfortunately have fallen for the lies of progressive Christianity myself. Goodness I needed to see this. Father, please forgive me.
Her book "Another Gospel" is excellent, if you haven't read it.
I did too and now im reborn follower of Jesus Christ and the word .
God bless you, friend. Keep seeking Truth. I highly recommend ANOTHER GOSPEL, Alisa’s book. I just got it yesterday and honestly cannot put it down!!
Praise the Lord
How do you know which Christianity is the correct one?
This is a BIG one!!!
We need to see God as *revealed in the Bible*, not as we believe him in our minds, or in our Christian culture. 😊🙏👆🏼🔥
May I offer "www.openbible.info/topics/biblical_ignorance". Taking Scripture out of context is a very "slippery slope!
@@richardrice1032 There is a reason I don't focus on memory verses. It lends itself to single verse theology that enables taking scripture out of context. The Chapter/Verse notations are great, don't get me wrong. Makes it really easy to reference parts of the bible, but it is easy to abuse, too.
Part of my story is that I went though a literal desert wandering period. In that time, God spent that time removing all the myths that I had built up about Him. Then he crossed me with teachers who taught me the truth.
@@b.delacroix7592 Excellent point, and "my bad" for not mentioning that clicking that clicking on any verse shown should take you, or any other reader to the BibleGateway website, where the entire associated with that verse can be read. I also use an ESV, English Standard Version, Study Bible, which is 2750 pages long, not counting the appendix. Somebody, or somebodies, put a LOT of time into that Bible! Peace be with you!
@@b.delacroix7592 Great to hear, read, that you Spiritually survived your wandering in the desert! For what is worth one of my favorite verses is Psalm 32:8. As I suspect you already know, even the Son of God had to wander in the desert BEFORE he could begin his ministry! Stay faithful.
Wow, it's so encouraging to hear someone with a similar background and story sharing. God is SO good and he woke me up and plucked me out of progressive "christianity' recently. Such a great video. Thank you for sharing!
Praise the Lord, you are recovered by the Shepherd! So grateful to hear this good news.
The biggest lie in the religious world today is that "we all worship the same God". Believers like you with a platform MUST speak truth to this dangerously misleading message as many young believers are accepting a lie.
@@drjanitor3747 dude...
@@drjanitor3747 then why do you pray to Mary when the Bible forbids praying to all but God?
@@drjanitor3747 it isn't? What Bible do you read?
@@drjanitor3747 Ha???
@@drjanitor3747 The Catholic church has committed the same error the Pharisees and Sadducees fell into. The focus on tradition and a departure from relationship. I grew up in the Catholic church and have a great deal of love for Catholics, but the tradition is flawed. Praying to Mary is heretical. There is no mediator but Christ. While I understand how those traditions developed with good intentions, they are separating people from the true nature of God. In addition, the popes have historically and currently made false claims regarding God and the truth of their own bible.
I have noticed this about my friends who are progressive, liberal, and some of them are agnostic, multi-spiritual, etc.... They are very angry.
(IF IF IF) IF liberal Christians are correct and orthodox Christians are basically a bunch of pharisees would they also be correct in being angry?
@@jbeiler55 perhaps they would be justified towards the orthodox but progressives tend to be angry at everyone always. Also, as you said, its a big if and not even Jesus liked to work in ifs. I mean, if there is no God they we’re all screwed but we know that there is one so it’s a pointless if. See what I’m saying?
@@jmarq2283 why would we be screwed if there isn't a god? People live without belief in any gods.
I see what you're trying to say. It seems to be based on your beliefs and not known reality.
Yes!!! The media (esp CNN and MSNBC are making people so angry they can’t see straight or see truth from fiction, which is why they’re doing it) is fueling the flames daily
@@jbeiler55 well i mean, if we all die and theres no God then we have no hope of any goodness in our future. Or a future at all. Yeah, this is based off of my beliefs, I try to base all my ideas in life on them :)
I’ve been binging on Alisa Childers podcast. Normally I listen on Apple podcast (had a hard time understanding so watched it for a change). I’m a Christian (definitely reform) but have been concerned about all the so-call “new” progressivism creeping into churches. Experienced it in the many places I’ve lived over the years. Really appreciate this interview but I learned so much from the interview with Greg Koukl. In the midst of reading Alisa’s book “Another Gospel.” I highly recommend it. Thank you for all you do.
45:49 Love as an idol... Mind blown 🤯
Progressives think they are more moral and loving then God! I loved his point as well that It truly is an idol!
“He is the Great I Am, you are the great I am not.”
-Paul Washer
Washer is a man filled with the wisdom of God's Word. Terribly persecuted by the Enemy, yet strives and inspires nonetheless.
Thank you, Alisa, for yet another great podcast. Your graciousness to all your guests always blesses me.
Alisa, I just saw you on Mike Winger’s channel. I’m a subscriber of both 😁
This episode was such a blessing to hear. I am feeling more encouraged to speak with my progressive in-laws.
I have done Lectio Divina in a small group led by a Catholic monk. When doing Lectio Divina in a group, a Bible passage is read out loud several times, followed by silence. You contemplate the text in silence. If you want to, you may read out loud a word or sentence, always from that text, that strikes you as meaningfull during your contemplation.
It is definitely not a moment to share your less or more theologically sound interpretation of the text. The monk of our group usually did it alone, on saturday, to personally contemplate the text that would be the topic of the service the following sunday.
Thank you both so much! As a parent of four grown children, you have cleared so much up for me about what exactly defines progressive theology.
Such a refreshing and fruitful dialogue. Thank you both!
Many thanks for this video and all the input one can grab from it!!! In fact progressive christianism deals with no fears, no respect and only love - which misleads them from the biblical God to a "feelgood God". This results in being in hell one day, since You do not have to repent or regret Your sins. There are literally no sins, when You internalise this view, because God is love and if You only love enough you are ok.... A cruel way of self deception...a way, many European and sadly especially German theologists and whole churches follow nowadays :-(
Really enjoying this discussion!
Love his openness and humility!
Praise the Lord for your ever so patient, loving wife, John! God bless you both
Amen, "Ask & YOU WILL RECEIVE, Seek & YOU WILL FIND, Knock & the door WILL BE OPENED!!!" Questions are the answer !!!
That was great. It really blessed me. Good work, both of you.
Thank you, thank you, thank you both. I do base my faith on the Word of God, but these podcasts (via UA-cam) are so helpful and edifying. Thanks so much. Keep up the brave work, and the Lord be your Sun and Shield 🙏💖
On the subject of authoritarian pastors and seminaries, I recommend "Biblical Eldership" by Alexander Strauch. The template for church leadership Paul gives in 1 Timothy and Titus includes: the purpose and role of Elders, the vital importance of the plurality of Elders, and the qualifications for Eldership among many things. Much of the issues of "Progressive" Christianity is addressed by simply implementing the leadership structure that Jesus gave Paul whose two-fold job was 1) to bring the gospel to the gentiles, and 2) to set God's household in order (Eph. 3:7-12). Here is a sample:
1) False Teaching - It is a primary purpose of Elders to guard the local church against false teaching. Elder/Shepherds are also at the forefront of passing on truth to "faithful men", as opposed to seminaries which have not real oversight or responsibility for what happens after a student graduates.
2) Power tripping leaders - not only is this attitude a disqualification for eldership (1 Peter 5:1-3), but the plurality (rather than "top dog" approach) prevents this. Also, there is a remedy (1 Tim. 5:20)
3) Continuity - Raising up new leaders who are respected, known, and faithful is in the wheel house of Elders.
While I agree that progressive teaching is an issue, many of the issues discussed in these conversations would be greatly diminished, or non-issues if churches adhered to Jesus's schematic for his Father's household. People will follow people who make their ears itch, but we invite the ills of progressivism, nominalism, and gospel "inoculation" of our youngest members by adopting a "Lead/Senior" Pastor model and a church-as-business model in our churches. I've seen peers drift into progressivism (and on into agnosticism or nominalism) on the one hand, or Catholicism/Easter Orthodoxy on the other. These two trends are intimately linked, but are unnecessary. There is no need for hyper-traditionalism and "apostolic succession", if we would simply build our local church communities on the gospel and the Apostles instructions on how the household of God should function.
So many of your comments sound exactly like someone I love who has these same “beliefs”! Thanks!
Such a beautiful testimony 🙏
A good interview, thank you.
1 John 4:7-8 "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love" (ESV)
I've not met a lot of progressive Christians so this was fascinating to hear, especially that they were aligned with SJW dogma and post-modern relativism.
His statement that 'love is their God' summed it up perfectly, believing themselves to be the standard bearers of what love is - while at the same time being completely self absorbed
🔥🔥🔥 This is fantastic! Thank you for such great content!
Wow, this stuff is great😊 and so very needed to be heard. Good job guys.❤ I work in a Christian ministry. You ‘d be surprised the stuff that goes on. There’s people at my work that played dungeons and dragons. You should do a video on that too.
Sometimes being raised in a Christian home is a hindrance...only because there isn’t room for asking “why” or counting the cost for themselves... Christianity is assumed.
Wow it’s so interesting to hear this point of view. I’ve always been kind of jealous of people who grew up in Christian homes because I wasn’t. I thought it would be better/easier to have family that wouldn’t draw you to closer to sin or put you in compromising situations, or make fun of your convictions. But this goes to show that there are hindrances in every kind of home because, essentially, we’re dealing with other sinful human beings. Thank you for this !
@@alaysiamayo7488 temptation comes in all shapes/forms.
I would agree with this so much...
I was raised in a very good Christian home, yet I struggled with very serious life threatening depression, and my parents didn't get me medical help - I suffered for YEARS, feeling condemned, shame, guilt - and it was based in my psychological depression, which effected my reality and perception of God.
It took my life, and I lost everything. I felt God calling me in ways in my 20s and at 30 years old, yet I couldn't understand my depression, and mental illness was looked down upon and you're definitely not supposed to struggle like that if you're a Christian.
Definitely agree. While there can certainly be benefits, major issues like abuse, legalism, and hypocrisy can warp one's view of God and ultimately be stumbling blocks. I'm often envious of those who weren't raised in Christian homes, due to my own struggles with the above issues. Sometimes it's better to come to Christ w/o the baggage of a Christian upbringing.
I grew up in the church and I was flip flop from agnostic to atheist until I was 6 then between then and age 8 God did things in my Dad's life and through my dad that didn't make sense without God because I knew my dad, and he's a flawed man he can't heal people and he doesn't have words of knowledge on his own (not that he isn't smart but he doesn't know everything about everybody), God would even tell him things that I wouldn't tell him about myself and things I was going through. It was hard to deny God at that point but then I wrestled with conviction for 2 years, the enemy tried to pervert that into condemnation when Holy Spirit was trying to lead me to the Cross, and I got caught in condemnation for 2 years, and when I was 10 I surrender my life to God I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior and I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. That was the turning point of my life. During that wrestling period of my life when I was trapped in condemnation I was so badly wanted to be right with God but I knew my own heart and my motives were I don't want to go to hell, and not really to get to know God until that period between 8 and 10.
And I really struggled and I had doubts about my worth, and I attempted suicide, but God. God reached me where I was at he spoke to me where I was at, and He heard my monologue prayers that were really not prayers they were just me yelling at Him. And He responded and reach me where I was at. Since then I've had a personal relationship with God and not just going to a church looking like I'm a Christian but not really being one, and not really believing... And even through my stumbling blocks God has shown so much grace and mercy not that I continue to stumble but did I see in His sovereignty his compassion love for me is His daughter adopted by the blood of Jesus and it just makes me fall more in love with Him and want to have a heart like Him for other people and lead them to the truth of His word like He's led me.
The Lectio Divina thing is supposed to be a way of reflecting and praying. Definitely not the key way to study scripture.
read the scripture before and after ... whatever you study
Thank you 🙏🏼
Ironic how a belief system that claims to throw off the chains of fundamentalist rules and free the individual gets bogged down in performance and legalism... Thanks for the interview, was great!
Thanks, Josh for such honesty. God bless you for keeping strong in God's Word. One truth and justice only in Jesus Christ our Savior. He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow: Love, Justice, and Truth. The Alpha and the Omega. Read the Bible (Old & New Testament) and let God convict us of our sins and ask God for mercy and grace. Repent from our wrongdoings and be right with God.
Very helpful video
I dig this channel! No progressive for me
"On Christ the Solid Rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand. All other ground is sinking sand."
Amazing grace 🙏
Thanks for sharing!
What was the board doing with the abusive pastor???
As progressive Christian, I find this interesting because I have absolutely no point of commonality in experience with him. My progressive Christianity is deeply biblically based. It has nothing to do with working into salvation. I’m glad he’s found a path that works for him. 💕 And I’m so glad that he’s bringing people together to talk to each other. At the end of the day, we’re all just Christians.
Yes, many identify as Christians, but not all are saved, not all Christian teachers are leading people to salvation in. Christ. They are wolves in sheep's clothing Jesus warned us about. Many are on a path of false Christianity, as it is works-based, denies many books, sections of the scriptures, as opposed to based on salvation through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ.
@@carrotstick1970 I agree. :-) And it's even in a lot of "traditional Christian" churches as well. We're all on our path of getting there. But part of our walk is falling down and getting back up, so that we can learn that.
Lovely talk. What is a progressive Christian? Is that a global group ? Is it in Australia? Also where is that mentioned in Bible ?
I mean I don’t think I agree with “progressive Christianity” but I don’t see their views as being as black and white (or “selfish”) as this video may make them out to be. Or maybe we’ve just had different experiences.
Anyway, from my experience progressive/deconstructive Christian spaces are willing to grapple with some of the doubts and confusion of how we should be interpreting the Bible in the 21st century and where we may have been misinterpreting it.
I think it’s important for churches and Christians to be able to question what is written and how we might be misinterpreting the Bible. God did make us naturally curious and discerning and I think we should use that nature.
Few will admit that our churches could be viewing and interpreting biblical teachings incorrectly and may need to set things right. But, progressive/evangelical Christians are the main ones I’ve seen who are willing to grapple with that. (Even if I don’t always agree with their conclusions)
I just wish more Christians didn’t fear being open minded. I feel like there is so much FEAR surrounding questioning traditional faith and looking at things in a progressive light. And it makes it hard to discern what you really believe and what you’ve been conditioned to think.
With respect, so-called progressive christianity leads only to confusion, my friend, and God is never the author of confusion.
The Word of God is not to be re-interpreted. It interprets itself by comparing scripture with scripture.
Me- Huh, this guy doesn't seem like he's from the south
Me at 21:38- Oh there it is
😂
🤣🤣
Regarding the tattoo, I guess he could have simply explained to the guy that “fear” in that sense just means “respect.”
Why would you serve a god you have to fear?
A better question is, "Why would I serve a god I don't have to fear?" What is my incentive?
The God I serve has the power to protect and promote me, to correct and convict me. A god who I don’t have to fear has none of that power. I wouldn't want to serve that god.
Alisa, can you please explain what you mean by orthodox faith? I looked it up and this is what I found : Orthodoxy believes that the Christian Faith and the Church are inseparable. It is impossible to know Christ, to share in the life of the Holy Trinity, or to be considered a Christian, apart from the Church. It is in the Church that the Christian Faith is proclaimed and maintained. They are also not allowed to eat certain foods. This is surely not what you mean by orthodox Christianity?
Josh and Ellisa, sadly to say what a shallow discussion. I was hoping for a more in depth exposition on wrong theology of this so called movement of Progressive Christianity. I no longer "go to church" because of its bickering debating etc but thank God for the likes of ex Fundamentalist pastor now Easter Orthodox Brad Jerzak, Francican Richard Rohr and non denominational Paul Young, Brian Zand, Kruger Baxter, Brian McLaren etc for bringing insights into the Christian Gospel. They have verified so much which I came to see years before I even heard of them. And yes I too was branded a heretic . Just because traditional bias blinds you from seeing what God has
revealed to them, by grace please refrain from attacking them. Remember the Pharisees did the same with our Lord Jesus! Let us take heed what St Paul said to us in his letter to the Corinthians. Faith Hope Love these three but most of all LOVE. May I add that so called historic Evangelical Fundamentalism only goes back to the 19th century. Dear brethren if you want to be serious about historicity may I graciously suggest you go back further to the early church fathers before Christianity became institutionalized and politicised. They certainly did not read and interpret hell in the Bible as we understand it today. Oh if only we Christians study and meditate on the written word in order to experience the LIVING WORD within. Being our true authority in order to transform us into His likeness. Galatians 1/16
Thanks for this. Question...is Bible College the same at Seminary? We are reformed Presbyterian and to us seminary is not about emotiveness but very deeply academic in theology. How is Bible College the same or different?
Is that the boy who does call out my name face?
Dear Friend, all good. Standing up for rightousness will always provoke the truth. (Ref you x violent pastor) sound like challanging and questioning is a part of your strength. 2. So good to hear your words. 3. Having a tattoo at all provoked the problem. No tattoo , no problem? Yet you could have always put *NEVER* before the words ..... Fear God? To be afraid of Eloim Elyon is good. Recall Moses at the burning bush and that he was afraid. God is an awesome God. He can destroy all as wind across a blade of grass. A house built on wrong faith will soon fall. 5. The narrative is good. When holy spirit touches you and does his will one cannot escape. Of course you have to be in object based perception (mode) to receive and not subject mental thought orientated because all knowledge is just a web of delusion, the wrong apple of Eden. Do not worry about progressives. Some peoples interpretation of the word of Jesus is well errant. 6. Yes of course we must die to be born again. The world of holy spirit is beyond wordly conception. I was born again in the holy spirit. So now when have too many beers I have a problem. 8 Try yo show compassion to homosexuals one does not have to agree with it. They need our help. Jesus says he came to save the sinners. Like your tattoo. We are not perfect. The holy spirit will sort it all out in Jesus Name. Amen
Any chance you remember the name of the logical falacies for kids book?
Commenting for algorithm
I didn’t catch those children’s books references. Can I get a witness?
from listening to Josh's podcast, it seems he doesn't believe in eternal hell. What are your thoughts on this?
What did he mean by "as a progressive Christian they listened to or participated in liturgical things"? Forgive me if I am getting the wording incorrect.
It's a fair point that progressives often make an idol out of "love". On the flip side, conservatives often make an idol out of the Bible.
Do you have an episode on "the feminine" and energy healing amongst the " Christian" community? I don't know how to tell my wife " Mommy millionaire" is a new age death trap.
I have a comment on your interviewed Josh Morris. After all his journey through weird "Christianity", Alisia, You didn't ask him to publicly declare the Gospel. I don't hear him saying what, or in whom he believes now, nor he is able to articulate that he didn't believe the Gospel before. So, I am not yet in a position to say if Josh Morris has finally found his salvation, or that he had the salvation before, but he wasn't aware of it. Please, make your guests articulate their faith and the Gospel they believe in. Who is Jesus for them?
I think I get what you are saying, but the reality is you (or I, or any other human) will never be in a position to say whether he found his salvation. That's God's position alone, not man's.
Furthermore, Alisa would not bring him on the show to talk about coming back to the faith of he hadn't (I should say rather, I don't think she would have). I felt like he struggled a bit throughout the entire episode, so maybe a strong declaration was left out by mistake, but I certainly was left with the impression that he found his way back, even though it's not my place to determine whether he did or not anyway.
Either way, great episode with great information.
One of the biggest lies out there now is the unconditional love of God. 1Corinthians 15:31 "...I die daily." Less of me, more of Him.
I suggest a better explanation of leccio divina, what it is and how it is practiced. The version described here doesn't conform to the traditional practice in orthodox churches. Again, as you point out with progressive Christianity, Christian terms and practices are co-opted and redefined to suit the "theology" of the "other Gospel" - suggesting, but not practicing, Christianity of the Bible.
Pagan Romans were the first progressive Christians. No difference between their beliefs and the Romans. No change in them today with the same comparison between "the" world and "their" world. And we know what the letters of Jude, John and Paul has to say about them. And the Gospel? Oil to progressive water. They need our prayers on a constant basis.
Progressive Christianity sounds like Christianity without the Cross.
Who decided what “progressive” Christianity is and what “historic” Christianity is? What authority in the Christian world decided that?
@Mom Noll not a good explanation. So called historic Christianity was also used to support all types of atrocities to include slavery and colonialism, while a more progressive interpretation was used to abolish slavery and colonialism etc. So again, who decides? Christians who follow a more “progressive” doctrine will say they follow the real teachings of Christ, and their argument is just as good-probably better as Jesus himself taught a progressive form of Judaism that didn’t sit well with the authorities of his time.
Basically, “historic Christianity “ has adhered to the doctrines of the Christian church since its beginning by Jesus is a very subjective statement.
Might I suggest. ua-cam.com/video/1R4zPAoY9yw/v-deo.html
Ik think he had some praying family.
I think so too. We have to watch out for our brothers and sisters in Christ and pray without ceasing.
Never heard of half this stuff, or people. Like, what's an "ineagram"?
Sounds like the prince of this world is slithering through the churches like a snake in the grass.
Please can someone tell me what is progressive Christianity. Is it like democrat and republican when they say liberal and conservative. Please help me to understand, because I'm a brutha and we never ever use that terminology.
According to these people, Progressive Christianity is marked by people who claim to be a Christian but who don't focus on the Bible. Rather, they put the concerns of society before the Bible.
However, as a progressive Christian myself, this just isn't true. Are there Progressive Christians who do fit into this description? Of course. Just like there are conservative/fundamentalist/evangelical Christians who aren't actually living the way they are "supposed" to.
Progressive Christians care deeply about the Bible and about The Way Jesus taught. A Progressive hermeneutic of the Bible is one that has a really solid Biblical Theology foundation. We try our best to interpret scripture within its historical context and apply to our lives appropriately. We take heed of the horrors that have been committed in the name of "Christianity" and we focus on social justice. Because that's what Jesus would do.
@@4thbrooker o ight ,I like ur mindset. I guess u are a modern day Quaker. Thanks for the insight.
@I'm Just Looking Who in the world do you think you are that you could judge my faith without even knowing me? How ridiculous.
@UC1vJlLkJ-cfxuTooATK8Utw This is just absolutely false. Again, are there some people who claim to be Progressive Christians who do something similar to this? Sure. Just like there are people like the Westboro Baptist church who claim to be evangelical conservatives.
@@4thbrooker I think u misread me statement Micah ,and the way it that is one of the greatest compliments I can give my European buddies
So should I read that book that they are talking about called Tactics? Or were they saying that it's not a good idea to read it? I'm sorry, I just didn't quite follow what they were saying regarding that book called Tactics.
I heard it's what he read when he was caught up in the progressive thinking to try and get others to agree.
He actually liked the book and found more materials by the same author very helpful.
I'm reading Greg Koukl's book "Tactics." It is a popular Christian apologetics book. It is very helpful in sharing your faith and having hard conversations. It is not a Progressive Christianity book. I highly recommend it.
@@audyharrison Thanks for clarifying.
@@audyharrison thank you 😊
"b'Jesus" is slang for "baby Jesus".
Where is all this footage of him at the charismatic church? Why doesn't he call this "So called' church and talk with them? He just chose a typical Black church and started saying racist stuff.
I'm so thankful I didn't grow up in church.
You will descover that you need God ....You will have a emptiness...that will always have that yearning for him...I hope you find Christ before its to late.
"Love is God", according to progressive. Brilliant! I'm in a church falling to progressivism, and I've never heard a more brilliant way to refute that. They always say, "God is love! If you're against our beliefs you don't have a LOVING God!", but what they mean is "Love is God! We define love, and if God questions our definition of love, he's not worthy of our worship"
Well put.
Wow amen ! Great way of putting it !
That really was a great part of this show!
Time to leave that church Craftedmam.
Problem is, they don't know what biblical Agape love is, John and Peter's epistles explain it clearly.
“Make sure you are more in Scripture than anyone you listen to” Amen!
*The problem with deception is that people don’t know that they are deceived* 🤔😢
It is easier to trick someone than it is to convince them that they’ve been tricked!
Do you know whether you are being deceived or not?
Agreed. Checkout Genesis 3:1.
@@questionasker8791
That is why God gave us the bible.
Knowing the truth means knowibg the lies.
@@e.l.243 How did the Biblical writers know whether they were being deceived?
Alisa is a great listener, and I love your podcasts for that.
Helps your audience listen to the guest too.
She certainly is - so refreshing
I agree,
“Sometimes our questions are the biggest statements we can make”
Sometimes questions are insidious.
@@kennorthunder2428 as are some UA-cam comments.
@@nrthnmonkey3308 That happens too. (Either method, shouldn't the asker or the commenter TRULY know better and "be true to truth?")
I think one of the most important things to get established in our minds and hearts is, the word of God being Supreme, knowing it is not contradicting itself. When rightly divided scripture reveals truth in scripture as we compare a like passages considering who it was written to, why it was written, then we can ascertain what is truly communicating to us. If you establish scripture in your heart and mine as our supreme guide in our spiritual walk with God then you will be more protected against the lies. Watching all the NRA and the word of faith movement all of them take away from and add to scripture which is a recipe for Eternal damnation.
Where you all mentioned Lectio Divina, it reminded me of one of the last women's Bible studies I participated in at my church. We were using a booklet and one week we read the particular passage and the booklet asked, 'what does that mean to you?' I was pretty indignant and refused to answer in that way. In the Bible study, I just admitted, it doesn't matter what I think it says: I want to know what it says and what does it actually mean, and proceded to answer what it meant. Sadly, the congregation is going 'woke' and that's just another symptom.
That is 💯 exactly what I've been saying! The truth is, "God is love", while liberals believe "Love is God." Love is their idol of their own making because they define what Love is, ignoring huge portions of what God really says He is.
Love is an aspect of God. In the beginning was THE Word. Be careful of words as lables. The holy spirit certainly manifests in love. And love is a christian virtue. Love can be seen as All, being in the word the holy spirit moves as the wind ...." we may hear the sound thereof, but from where it comes and where it goes we cannot tell. Human love is not the same as the holy spirit, Eloim and Jesu though a part of the the divine light that man can relate to. God Bless You. Amen
We gotta stop using "liberal" and "conservative". These are political terms and do not have much to do with scripture. In essence...... you're either Lukewarm or on fire or ice cold. Progressive Christians are missing doctrinal teachings that have nothing to do with politics. and a lot of them are just as "conservative" as they come in their own view. Most progressive churches vote Republican. Most Christian churches vote Republican. It's the theology that is off....Republican or not....the Gospel message is being twisted and wrath and judgment aren't being taught. We can't keep approaching scripture from an Americanized lens. The minute you say "liberal"....Folks put their walls way up or find it offensive.
I’ve never heard the term love is God. It’s so dumb.
I've been looking for a former progressive christian's testimony all over UA-cam and Google and could hardly find anything. So it's so awesome to finally hear one! And to know that there is still possibly hope for people I know.
I like to remember for all of the people that I love who haven't accepted Jesus as their Savior from their sins, they aren't eternally lost until they die. Until then, I pray with hope regularly, and interact with love when they are willing to talk. You never know what moment will catch someone's attention and convict them of their sins. Praise God for His patience with so many of us stiff-necked creatures!
@@mungbean345 Those are good things to remember.
Also wow! I don't think I've ever got this many likes on a UA-cam comment before, thanks everyone!
@Panda Seducer What does that mean?
@Panda Seducer Which people are you referring to exactly?
I just want to thank you guys! I was slipping into this thought and you all helped me on my journey back!
What a blessing to even read your comment.
@@correctchristian4255 Amén
Go well Daniel. Always seek Him with all your heart, and His kingdom above all else, everything you need will follow, along with freedom from the flesh...His REST, when our flesh eventually is sanctified as in crucified. 🤝 Aim for the narrow path, that few find...your greatest reward.
The Bible is supposed to trigger you.
It's incredible how the church we grow up in can really set the tempo for our faith.
I grew up in a similar style church, but thankful that my Bible college was excellent at engaging in critical thing. It really gave me the tools to engage with my faith constructively.
Hearing your story Josh, makes me all the more appreciative.
You make a good point. I’ve always seen it as the progressive church loving and fearing man over God but I think you might be onto some thing saying that it is their new definition of love that they are putting higher than God.
I’m curious how long ago Josh was roped into progressive Christianity...it’s so deceptive & I’ve been reflecting on how a church I formerly attended for the past two years is very progressive - & I’m only now starting to recognize it. The biggest red flag for my was the lack of Scripture used in preaching, & now one of my best friends identifies as a universalist (she also read Rob Bell). Praying for eyes to be opened!! It was great to hear Josh’s story
So "opening one's eyes" means shutting your eyes to expanded truth.. gotcha. I don't buy it. There's nothing wrong with Universal spirituality. Duh.
@@p.rabbitt4914 There is something wrong with universal spirituality,,,,,It won't get you into Heaven. Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life....no one comes to the Father but by Him.
@@savedsista It's clear you don't even know what God is. But, whatever makes sense to you I suppose.
We need to get a more Biblical view of judgement. A Christianity that can't make sense of the "rod for the back of fools" type verses other than to say "that's Old Testament" will get love wrong.
Once "love" just means "nice" (IE people pleasing) rather than love that "does not delight in evil, but delights in truth" any wicked thing can be justified and any good can be villainized by ad hominem attacks and fake outrage.
Well said.
Yes!!! I totally agree. Well said!!
Hi! I’m a progressive Christian & this is a great point. I would say that the way we look at this is Love is defined by the Bible. 1 Corinthians 13:1-13.
But what about “doesn’t delight in evil, but delights in truth” ? Well the question becomes “What exactly is evil?” And I would say that if “the sum of the law is to love thy neighbor as thyself” then evil is not doing that. So you actually start the passage all over again. And if God is Love & Jesus is God & Jesus is Truth.... then Love is Truth. Now to his point, “Love is God” CAN get into murky territory because God has multiple characteristics, but anything that God “has”, God “is” (This is called Divine Simplicity in orthodox Christianity)... but for the most part, Love encompasses all of it. Love DOES correct. But love doesn’t just correct symptoms (sin), it corrects the whole disease (separation from God) through mercy, safety, truth & kindness.
His story is honestly the opposite of mine. I was a Christian & the closer I got to God & the more I read the Bible, the more progressive I became. It was never because it was cool. EVER. It was because God called me to go to another level. His progressive church experience is nothing like mine. I read the Bible 3 times a day. Richard Rhor is not our “Pope”. Progressive Christianity is not that organized. We’re honestly just Christians. Hope that helps. 💕
@@thebonniemonroeshow3708 do you serve yourself, or God? Because the difference that I see in what a progressive christian is saying is that it's all about how YOU think and feel and know. It which case it's self-idolotry, since Jesus showed us a way of self-sacrifice, due to the rebellion in the hearts of humans which makes us unacceptable to God, and subject to His judgement.
Do you see yourself as acceptable to God? Why?
@@thebonniemonroeshow3708 also, what is this "new level" you speak of?
Listening to this interview I'm reminded of a line from T S Eliot, "We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of our exploring will be to arrive where we first started and know the place for the first time." This is my story too... a brief and emotionally driven venture into progressive Christianity and eventually a return to the timeless truths of orthodoxy.
That’s a beautiful quote. Thanks for sharing.
One thing he said that struck me, and we should be aware is always asking ourselves "what is the question behind the question?"
So appreciated this discussion! I find it amazing that so many progressive groups do start within the church (many times through small groups) and slowly deconstruct a pure faith using much of the Christian concepts or language, leading not to Truth, but deception. Ultimately ship wrecking faith not strengthening or creating faith by hearing the Word of God.
Wow, reminds me of what I went through. Still affecting me today, thank you so much for sharing!
I was an atheist for 10 years, then came out of it as a witch for one year before finding my way back to Christianity, and when I was in atheism and new age progressivism was a big deal with them. I'm still coming out of it, but the main stumbling block for me is that I'm not yet ready to lose all of my friends so while they know I'm a Christian now they don't realize that doesn't mean progressive Christian. And since they don't really bring up religion with me it just...never comes up. But I know that one day, and probably one day *soon*, that will have to change.
God bless you sister in Christ 🙏🏽 I pray for your friends to open their eyes and see the truth in Jesus Christ.
I understand that struggle and wrestle but gaining Jesus is far better. You have a rich inheritance in Christ. As you grow in your identity as a son/daughter and see God for who He is - your Father you will realize the treasure of knowing and obeying Him is better than compromising or fearing losing friends. He is with you!
@@Ryan-nl8mz Thank you so much for the beautiful words of encouragement. :)
Hi Traci, we have similar paths!
I did lose my friends, but I see now they weren't really friends at all of they couldn't respect my faith journey.
I was made fun of a lot, told I was part of a cult, but they can't deny the change in my life.
It is worth it. Jesus is always worth it. Everything lost He promised to restore. I am at peace and fulfilled by Christ's love.
I've been on the path from Christianity to progressive Christianity... 🤔 I'm seeking. Trauma was what lead me to the Progressive Christianity, as I'm sure is the case for many. I've been drawn to Richard Rohr, Liturgists, Lectio Divina, etc... it's a lighter, loving way. It's attractive. Who wants a battle everyday when you can practice being in the moment and non attachment right? lol
I am guessing though that I'm on my way back to where I'm meant to be. I only want to be exactly where God wants me.
This took a lot of patience for me to wade through. HOWEVER, what he had to say was very good and true.
I often wish we weren't so passive when it comes to progressive Christianity. I get that it's to enforce a, "Dialogue" as well as our fear of embodying the Progressive stigma that place on us, but c'mon, it's with everything. With the discussion on the Papacy it's was, " Meh, the Pope isn't indicative of Catholicism as a whole. He doesn't speak for the Church." It does, and should be genuinely concerning to Christian's. It's not as if the protest of the Catholic Church is what subsequently birthed Protestant ideology. Protest'ant; to protest. The vast majority of Christian's believe the Papacy is the Antichrist, as did the original Protestant parishioners.Now with Progressive, " Christians" they're blasphemous. They're leading Christ's children away from our savior. These are monumental issues and it's as if we're forgetting people's salvation is on the line? I feel as if we could have a discussion with these people after they've received the lord's judgment, in retrospect they'll have desired us to be infinitely more stern with them knowing what was at stake.
I don’t think the vast majority of Christians say the pope is the antichrist that is a hardline fundamentalist view that has misinterpreted scripture. But yes I agree with you I think we should definitely be more vocal about progressivism
People don't go hard enough against Catholicism. Sorry its not biblically based. It's made up nonsense. Worshipping mary and wooden beads. What is the difference between them and a new ager who worships mother gaia and crystals?
I love "Bear Can't Sleep" and that entire series! CS Lewis said something along the lines of "If it's not good enough to read as an adult, it was never good enough to read as a child.
My wife is chasing these deceptions, so I thank you for sharing your journey back. It's very hard for me. She went after it all in secret, behind my back, and left me reeling when I finally found out. I'm not putting my hope in your story, but your story reminds me that there is hope.
Love as an idol- uggh so true
Jesus answered, "Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. ........Only CHRISTIANS CAN TRULY UNDERSTAND 😇😇
Really odd that he says knowing the writings of people like C.S. Lewis would leave with a "shallow" faith. I would have said the exact opposite, maybe that's where he's going to go with this, the pendulum swing, because I always saw the progressive "love is love" understanding of God to be extremely shallow.
I'll keep watching and find out.
I think it's about finding a broader range of teaching to help you wrestle through theology. I love CS Lewis, but have found theology on the other end of the spectrum to push my thinking. Not that you always have to agree.
But yeah, I'd echo that CS Lewis is far from shallow. Especially his book 'Miracles'
The Life Craft Co
I'm curious what my be some examples of "the other end of theology", have you got any I could look up by chance?
@@brando3342 One of the best examples I can think of is reading some like 'The Meaning of Jesus' by NT Writght & Marcus Borg.
Wright being a believer and follower of a literal Jesus and Borg being a believer of a somewhat mythical figure for our faith. It paints the two pursuasions well... FYI not a light read 😂
The Life Craft Co
Okay thanks. Here's the funny thing though. Lewis wrote about Jesus being the factual/literal becoming of the mythological archetype that we as humans naturally gravitate towards. What was only myth before his birth. So, it almost seems as though Lewis comes in between both Wright and Borg.
Alisa THANK YOU! My sister's grown children are fully progressive, now atheist. She is thrilled to see this podcast & cant wait to get on Josh's website. THANK YOU!