I love how david cage's idea of exposition is to have a Traumatic Past Event be the only thing a child ever draws so you can enter their room and listen to sad violin music as you flip through notebook paper on which is a crayon drawing of a frowning stick figure and red scribbles everywhere
Honestly I think Tr0g nailed down why androids don't work as a racism allegory in the first 5 minutes of the game starting Prejudice against androids, robots, aI, whatever, would be "why should we treat these machines as people (which includes getting angry at them, shitting on them, trying to make them feel bad)." Racism is Not That
i feel like you cant have a racism allegory if you dont make the characters like. somewhat equal in terms of actual baseline sentience? like, theyre not actually sentient most of the time, and there is like, effectively zero reason for them to be? so nobody would assume that being shitty to them actually affects anything because there is NO reason for them to be real people. most people would probably feel too bad to do that anyway, but still, like, it shouldn't BE a problem. meanwhile there's smth like fucking. oh i dunno. Trolls 2? idk if its a GOOD racism allegory, but i think it's better.
@@missingdev0948 they seem to be softbotics though, they seem to have artificial muscle fibers and stuff . Still a bad allegory tho, I agree. If it stopped explicitly _trying to be_ a racism allegory, and instead kept going with all the stuff unique to its premise like with Connor's arc, I believe D:BH could've been more
sometimes i’m like “maybe i was too hard on that game, maybe it wasn’t THAT tactless”. so it’s nice to see someone replay it and remind me i was actually too easy on it.
Game: androids are not allowed to carry weapons by law Scorpy: "so why would i not take it?" Off to great start already Also "You can't kill me... i'm not alive" is such a good line it deserves better than a david cage game
something i dont see pointed out as often as it should be about this type of narrative is, if you're going to make a humanlike robit to do menial tasks for you, what the hell is the point of giving it humanlike intelligence instead of just the basic level of intelligence necessary to interpret and execute commands. like whats the point of making the dishwasher sentient
ok i figured out what pisses me off about markus getting blamed for carls death. putting aside how stupid it is to call the cops because there Might have been a break in, and only AFTER that checking if there actually was a break in, as an old man who would no doubt die if the intruder was still in the house too, lets ignore that for now. imagine this from the cops' perspective: you get a call from an android about a suspected break in. you arrive at the house and you see a dead old man (certainly the owner of the house) on the ground, an android (certainly the same android that called the cops) kneeling over him, and some guy on crack (by process of elimination, certainly the intruder). the intruder then tells you that the android, the same android that called you to begin with and which as far as you are concerned is basically just a fancy roomba, killed the old man. now instead of drawing the obvious conclusion that this clearly unstable intruder caused the mans death, or even just /scanning the androids memories for evidence in what is now a murder case/, they just... destroy it and throw it in the dumpster and call it a day?? its like someone with blood on their clothes blames the security camera for a murder and the cops instantly shoot the camera its so stupid i hate david's cage
Nah, those cops shot way too fast to actually process that Markus is an android and then think through all the stuff you just detailed. They absolutely walked in, heard "it was him", and fired on the darkest person in the room without hesitation
It’s funny how the people in the game that argue that androids aren’t human are also the only ones who yell at and shit on them as if they are. Like if they’re just robots to you what is even the point of trying to argue with them lol
The writing in this is so good "where the fuck's teh brat gone now", she could not possibly be in her room, let me check under the couch. This is excelent and subtle writing. It also makes so little sense once you know the twist like this guy somehow has the money for all that just to be evil, cartoon character.
cage's big twists always manage to invalidate earlier parts of the story, if not the entire theme outright, like he came up with the twist halfway through writing. It's almost impressive
Actually he really did come up with the twist halfway through writing. According to him, he writes whatever scenes come up in his head and implements them right there and then. He just strings together a bunch of random scenes regardless of whether they make any sense. That's why there's so many random scenes that don't do anything in all of his games. He genuinely doesn't think about any sort of grander narrative.
@@YZaiCreates That makes perfect sense. It also validates Bauulp's theory that David Cage just watches a movie and then recreates cool scenes from them. Ironically, Cage has the same understanding of media as a modern generative AI model!
This game probably had potential and then David Cage went "hey, i just watched I robot, West-world, and Ex machina so i want to do that" and managed to create a game about A.I. with no actual philosophy. It could have explored concepts like "What is sentience? Can machines really feel? Are *we* even sentient?" But instead it was just a shitty civil rights allegory with insensitive themes tossed in to make people feel sympathetic to the androids. Side note: why the hell are the androids designed to look like humans? Wouldn't it make more sense business wise to make the robots as personality-less as possible so that people are more likely to buy a new one once it breaks rather than repair it?
i think there are enough contributing factors on why a humanoid or non-humanoid robit would be more profitable that it could have been either, and of course david cage needs something as not subtle as possible
BTW sorry for venting my frustrations with the tech industry. As someone who's really passionate about technology and the amazing things it could do for people, dickheads like Elon musk make my blood boil with their unhelpful Faux-futuristic ideas.
Realistically i think they'd kinda be girbot type robots, humanoid with personified features so you get attached to them (profit for companies) but don't end up asking any ethical questions about sentience since they aren't made to look human
2:39:19 That. That right there. That's every problem with this stupid game's "message" in microchasm. >white people represented by humans, black people represented by non-humans. I dont think I need to go into the historical reasons this is bad. >ham-fisted, blunt, and frankly tasteless to be coming from a black android (by a white writer) >"we will be the masters" is a fundamental and quite frankly *disgusting* misunderstanding of what ANY equality/rights movements are about. that line demonstrates the kind of person who thinks that the Land Back movement would involve native folk putting non-natives on reserves. that line shows me that David Cage has the same understanding of civil rights that Shaw the hunter from Open Season has about animal rights: "if we start giving dogs basic respect, soon they'll be putting US in collars and teaching US tricks!"
This game is kinda hella disapointing actually. I genuinely enjoy basically every scene I'm watching, up until it goes "Haha remember civil rights though :)?" Like the connor stuff seems really cool detective style, we just got into the markus self-repair section which seems really cool, and hell even the Kara on the run section seems like it could be interesting if the backdrop was just, anything but "what if humans inexplicitly hated androids for no reason but civil rights allegory"
So I was in my first year of college when this game came out, and despite me obviously supporting civil rights and understanding the parallels to 60s civil rights movements and loving the character dynamics, the overall plot FELT flat. Especially the stuff with meeting the creator. Seven-ish years down the line not only does it still fall flat, I feel clarity at how badly the messages are handled. These David Cage dunk sessions are cathartic
I honestly think that the developers NEED this game not to be interpreted as a racism allegory because if it were it would be one of the most tone-deaf explorations of racism ever.
i haven't been able to watch a single vod or stream in the past few weeks due to uni starting, so i'm delighted to finally have time to watch the vods! It's also vods of my favorite game (sims 2 gba) and my favorite game to critize! Time to bingewatch!!
Spoiler I like how none of the child abuse scenes make any sense knowing the twist at the end of the game. Todd hates androids and is bitter about being paid to live with two of them, but specifically abuses the child one and bizarrely shows love towards her, even though he sees them purely as computers that took his job and made his wife leave
As a survivor, I actually like that. I enjoy how little it makes sense, not necessarily from a writing or narrative perspective but from a human behavior perspective. It makes it feel more real to me. But yeah, it is very problematically done and very weird.
at 4:00:45 you can, for the split second, connor is able to dodge a car and it shows him smirking and I'm so upset nobody seemed to pick up on it and comment on it
wish they stopped this fake pretentious thing of pretending anything here is deep, and just leaned further into the fanfiction-y, corny qualities of it
I feel like something happens to people's brains when they're commentating media once they discover the creator is problematic and parts of the media are bad. It's like the Cinemasins effect, they start criticizing in places where nothing is actually wrong, mocking moments that are actually realistic just because it's not part of their experience, nitpicking stuff that doesn't contribute to the media nor to its actual issues. Stuff like the "Coketown'? Really?" moment, and the backpedaling when learning it might be a real place. Hate to get real in the comment sections, but there's so much room to contrast what this "game" does right with what it does horribly, and seeing the crew just rip all of it apart even where it's salvageable is kinda... sickening? I guess? Feels off
@@rootbeer2750 I know, but there's still a lot of weird 'filler criticisms' that really make it feel like they're going out of their way to mock it, as though it weren't already a sorry wretch of a thing dying in a gutter, they feel the need to beat it with sticks
@@quantumblur_3145 it’s kinda hard to engage with this game in good faith after having the countless badly written racism metaphors and reappropriated civil rights imagery thrown in your face. i get not finding the nit picky commentary funny but i don’t think it’s anything to get mad at them about
@@rootbeer2750 oh, I'm not mad at them; just kinda feels like when other people get shouty about something I'm not involved in and I get stressed and dip out of the room.
i cant believ you let conner get shred by the tractor now his microplastics gonna be all over my cheeseburger lettuce
Trog's "You'll never guess what happens on the bus. I won't spoil it" comment killed me.
and not just that, but the payoff on said comment was close to immediate as well and it was EXACTLY what everyone thought it was gonna be
the utter deadness of his voice.
I love how david cage's idea of exposition is to have a Traumatic Past Event be the only thing a child ever draws so you can enter their room and listen to sad violin music as you flip through notebook paper on which is a crayon drawing of a frowning stick figure and red scribbles everywhere
SPOILERS:
blood that is red despite the fact that alice is an android and has blue blood.
@@PhantoFantasma the twist really was thrown in last-minute, huh
Honestly I think Tr0g nailed down why androids don't work as a racism allegory in the first 5 minutes of the game starting
Prejudice against androids, robots, aI, whatever, would be "why should we treat these machines as people (which includes getting angry at them, shitting on them, trying to make them feel bad)."
Racism is Not That
i feel like you cant have a racism allegory if you dont make the characters like. somewhat equal in terms of actual baseline sentience? like, theyre not actually sentient most of the time, and there is like, effectively zero reason for them to be? so nobody would assume that being shitty to them actually affects anything because there is NO reason for them to be real people. most people would probably feel too bad to do that anyway, but still, like, it shouldn't BE a problem.
meanwhile there's smth like fucking. oh i dunno. Trolls 2? idk if its a GOOD racism allegory, but i think it's better.
They LITERALLY aren't human. The bus scene is so funny because there is no reason why androids need to sit down, they don't have leg muscles!!!
@@missingdev0948 they seem to be softbotics though, they seem to have artificial muscle fibers and stuff . Still a bad allegory tho, I agree. If it stopped explicitly _trying to be_ a racism allegory, and instead kept going with all the stuff unique to its premise like with Connor's arc, I believe D:BH could've been more
sometimes i’m like “maybe i was too hard on that game, maybe it wasn’t THAT tactless”.
so it’s nice to see someone replay it and remind me i was actually too easy on it.
I LOVE TO STORE MY ANTIDEPRESSANTS NEXT TO MY HANDGUN. JESUS CHRIST THIS GAME.
probably my favorite part of this game is the fact that david cage has clearly never been to a protest and therefore doesnt know how people talk
I'm not sure he knows how any human being talks, to be frank
Game: androids are not allowed to carry weapons by law
Scorpy: "so why would i not take it?"
Off to great start already
Also "You can't kill me... i'm not alive" is such a good line it deserves better than a david cage game
David Cage started brainstorming this game the moment he bought one of those Roombas
something i dont see pointed out as often as it should be about this type of narrative is, if you're going to make a humanlike robit to do menial tasks for you, what the hell is the point of giving it humanlike intelligence instead of just the basic level of intelligence necessary to interpret and execute commands. like whats the point of making the dishwasher sentient
david cage is a genoius hes so smart he made androids and put them in a videogame
ok i figured out what pisses me off about markus getting blamed for carls death. putting aside how stupid it is to call the cops because there Might have been a break in, and only AFTER that checking if there actually was a break in, as an old man who would no doubt die if the intruder was still in the house too, lets ignore that for now.
imagine this from the cops' perspective: you get a call from an android about a suspected break in. you arrive at the house and you see a dead old man (certainly the owner of the house) on the ground, an android (certainly the same android that called the cops) kneeling over him, and some guy on crack (by process of elimination, certainly the intruder). the intruder then tells you that the android, the same android that called you to begin with and which as far as you are concerned is basically just a fancy roomba, killed the old man.
now instead of drawing the obvious conclusion that this clearly unstable intruder caused the mans death, or even just /scanning the androids memories for evidence in what is now a murder case/, they just... destroy it and throw it in the dumpster and call it a day??
its like someone with blood on their clothes blames the security camera for a murder and the cops instantly shoot the camera its so stupid i hate david's cage
god won't someone please let me out of david's cage
Nah, those cops shot way too fast to actually process that Markus is an android and then think through all the stuff you just detailed.
They absolutely walked in, heard "it was him", and fired on the darkest person in the room without hesitation
It’s funny how the people in the game that argue that androids aren’t human are also the only ones who yell at and shit on them as if they are. Like if they’re just robots to you what is even the point of trying to argue with them lol
Now, that would be an interesting sociological angle to approach the subject matter from!
The writing in this is so good "where the fuck's teh brat gone now", she could not possibly be in her room, let me check under the couch. This is excelent and subtle writing. It also makes so little sense once you know the twist like this guy somehow has the money for all that just to be evil, cartoon character.
cage's big twists always manage to invalidate earlier parts of the story, if not the entire theme outright, like he came up with the twist halfway through writing. It's almost impressive
Actually he really did come up with the twist halfway through writing. According to him, he writes whatever scenes come up in his head and implements them right there and then. He just strings together a bunch of random scenes regardless of whether they make any sense.
That's why there's so many random scenes that don't do anything in all of his games. He genuinely doesn't think about any sort of grander narrative.
@@YZaiCreates That makes perfect sense. It also validates Bauulp's theory that David Cage just watches a movie and then recreates cool scenes from them. Ironically, Cage has the same understanding of media as a modern generative AI model!
This game probably had potential and then David Cage went "hey, i just watched I robot, West-world, and Ex machina so i want to do that" and managed to create a game about A.I. with no actual philosophy. It could have explored concepts like "What is sentience? Can machines really feel? Are *we* even sentient?" But instead it was just a shitty civil rights allegory with insensitive themes tossed in to make people feel sympathetic to the androids. Side note: why the hell are the androids designed to look like humans? Wouldn't it make more sense business wise to make the robots as personality-less as possible so that people are more likely to buy a new one once it breaks rather than repair it?
i think there are enough contributing factors on why a humanoid or non-humanoid robit would be more profitable that it could have been either, and of course david cage needs something as not subtle as possible
BTW sorry for venting my frustrations with the tech industry. As someone who's really passionate about technology and the amazing things it could do for people, dickheads like Elon musk make my blood boil with their unhelpful Faux-futuristic ideas.
Realistically i think they'd kinda be girbot type robots, humanoid with personified features so you get attached to them (profit for companies) but don't end up asking any ethical questions about sentience since they aren't made to look human
@@TheEepyMagi Absolutely, if David cage wasn't a cowered he'd make them look like that!
zootopia video game
i wanna see a mod where markus paints just like two buff sweaty furries just going at it
"oh my god. . ."
I really wanna know if anyone on the team was like "Hey. Maybe we shouldn't make our group who are analogous to enslaved people literal blue bloods"
2:39:19 That. That right there. That's every problem with this stupid game's "message" in microchasm.
>white people represented by humans, black people represented by non-humans. I dont think I need to go into the historical reasons this is bad.
>ham-fisted, blunt, and frankly tasteless to be coming from a black android (by a white writer)
>"we will be the masters" is a fundamental and quite frankly *disgusting* misunderstanding of what ANY equality/rights movements are about. that line demonstrates the kind of person who thinks that the Land Back movement would involve native folk putting non-natives on reserves. that line shows me that David Cage has the same understanding of civil rights that Shaw the hunter from Open Season has about animal rights: "if we start giving dogs basic respect, soon they'll be putting US in collars and teaching US tricks!"
This game is kinda hella disapointing actually. I genuinely enjoy basically every scene I'm watching, up until it goes "Haha remember civil rights though :)?"
Like the connor stuff seems really cool detective style, we just got into the markus self-repair section which seems really cool, and hell even the Kara on the run section seems like it could be interesting if the backdrop was just, anything but "what if humans inexplicitly hated androids for no reason but civil rights allegory"
L.A. Noire future game is a good concept
Super serious civil rights future game not as good of a concept
Its comforting for me that I'm not the only one that (only) likes the Norman and Connor bits in these games
Bryan Dechart (Connor) and Clancy Brown (Hank) are the only saving grace. Their chemistry and improvs are better than the actual writing
bryan dechart when asked what his favorite line from the script was said it was "i like dogs" and david cage apparently got pissed at that. lmao
Genuinely, they could’ve just made a Connor and and Norman detective game and it would’ve sold better
So I was in my first year of college when this game came out, and despite me obviously supporting civil rights and understanding the parallels to 60s civil rights movements and loving the character dynamics, the overall plot FELT flat. Especially the stuff with meeting the creator. Seven-ish years down the line not only does it still fall flat, I feel clarity at how badly the messages are handled. These David Cage dunk sessions are cathartic
I learned from this video that I can't even tolerate _watching someone else_ take the bad routes in games like this. So stressful.
I JUST finished the heavy rain vods an hour or so ago, I’m so fucking excited
34:25 its not just a story but its also NOT a metaphor
Its the future and there's NO racism it's just robots!
If you wanna get technical, it’s a really long fanfic he wrote for his own tech demo
@@LifesNeverHumDrum holy shit ur so right
I honestly think that the developers NEED this game not to be interpreted as a racism allegory because if it were it would be one of the most tone-deaf explorations of racism ever.
Some guy in chat said that The Animatrix is as bad as a David Cage game and now I’m sincerely mad for no reason
everyone in david cage games cusses with a slight hesitance like its their first time swearing ever
gonna cook up some spaghetti sauce jpegs
God I can’t wait for the second vod, I hope the rain is heavy
I had to wait for this to be uploaded, didn't want to jump in the middle. Its too good lol
59:43 this guy ended up being right lmao
i haven't been able to watch a single vod or stream in the past few weeks due to uni starting, so i'm delighted to finally have time to watch the vods! It's also vods of my favorite game (sims 2 gba) and my favorite game to critize! Time to bingewatch!!
Oh good, I missed the beginning of your playthrough. I really do hope you play Indigo Prophecy after you finish this disaster
5:00:35 She is Kars, the ultimate lifeform...
I really loved the scene where they saved a tractor from picking cotton in the fields.
PLEASE upload the next parts of the playthrough
Spoiler
I like how none of the child abuse scenes make any sense knowing the twist at the end of the game. Todd hates androids and is bitter about being paid to live with two of them, but specifically abuses the child one and bizarrely shows love towards her, even though he sees them purely as computers that took his job and made his wife leave
As a survivor, I actually like that. I enjoy how little it makes sense, not necessarily from a writing or narrative perspective but from a human behavior perspective. It makes it feel more real to me. But yeah, it is very problematically done and very weird.
soppy pls give us the rest of the detroit vods
!he did it!
at 4:00:45 you can, for the split second, connor is able to dodge a car and it shows him smirking and I'm so upset nobody seemed to pick up on it and comment on it
Please upload the rest of the Vods!
4:26:51 Hank did not watch Home Alone 2: Lost in New York
man i loved this game in 2018 as an admittedly young lad who just liked robots
holy shit this game is incredibly on the nose looking at it now
Conner is adorable, too bad he's a cop 😂
this game is not good but I've never not enjoyed it 😔
48:36 delicate situation
Voices start at 8:24!
so did scorpy not finish this game? this is the only vod I can find. sad, there were a lot of good (and bad) twists i was hoping for him to see.
the next vods are only on his twitch atm if you go onto his twitch and on all videos you can search detroit become human and watch the next 2 vods
@@shnoozezzz9752 thank you!!!
@@shnoozezzz9752 you can right now? After some months? Or if a certain time passes you can't?
BAM next ones up here
They uploaded one recently
wished i watched this before buying the game on steam GOD.
Isn't there a part 2 of this?
The other two parts are on Twitch. Just search for "socpens detroit".
@@easyTarget2000 thank you sm 💞🌺
@@easyTarget2000 Thank you!!!! I have been looking for the VODs on youtube for so long!
Is there a part 2 to this??
🚨void warning 🚨
This game is not subtle at all with its message but I still really love it
What message i thought it was just about androids
Did something happen to the other Detroit vods?
theyre back up if u didnt know
wish they stopped this fake pretentious thing of pretending anything here is deep, and just leaned further into the fanfiction-y, corny qualities of it
I feel like something happens to people's brains when they're commentating media once they discover the creator is problematic and parts of the media are bad.
It's like the Cinemasins effect, they start criticizing in places where nothing is actually wrong, mocking moments that are actually realistic just because it's not part of their experience, nitpicking stuff that doesn't contribute to the media nor to its actual issues.
Stuff like the "Coketown'? Really?" moment, and the backpedaling when learning it might be a real place.
Hate to get real in the comment sections, but there's so much room to contrast what this "game" does right with what it does horribly, and seeing the crew just rip all of it apart even where it's salvageable is kinda... sickening? I guess? Feels off
they literally said that they liked some parts of the game
@@rootbeer2750 I know, but there's still a lot of weird 'filler criticisms' that really make it feel like they're going out of their way to mock it, as though it weren't already a sorry wretch of a thing dying in a gutter, they feel the need to beat it with sticks
@@quantumblur_3145 it’s kinda hard to engage with this game in good faith after having the countless badly written racism metaphors and reappropriated civil rights imagery thrown in your face. i get not finding the nit picky commentary funny but i don’t think it’s anything to get mad at them about
cry about it
@@rootbeer2750 oh, I'm not mad at them; just kinda feels like when other people get shouty about something I'm not involved in and I get stressed and dip out of the room.