Fabrício Werdum also any content on rehabbing lcl tears would be great. Not a lot of content out there as it’s primarily grapplers that get these injuries
Revisiting this analysis now that I'm nursing an LCL injury myself. Point taken about elevating from half butterfly in order to set up the saddle entry. But broader question overall: since the LCL injury occurs when top player's downward pressure clashes against bottom player's outward knee flare, does that then say something about an inherent structural weakness in the half-butterfly altogether? For those of us hobbyists looking to play this game, but prioritize ligament health over positional dominance, should we be bailing out of the position altogether at a certain point of structural compromise?
I feel like when I do this entry what saves me is I invert more which loads up the weight more on my hamstrings. I will definitely be more mindful when doing this type of entry. Thanks for the video!
As I am just starting to learn and play with heel hooks this video helps a to , thank you for saving my lcl’s I was wondering why both lcls on my knees were sore.
GREAT VIDEO. I honestly had about next to no idea about the risks of this and I'm really happy you demonstrated the healthier way to enter the saddle. Feels like one of the most useful jiu jitsu videos I've ever watched, not many injuy prevention ones of this kind out there.
Dear Lachlan & the Absolute MMA team. I just found out today that I tore my right ACL 3 years ago and have been training with a torn ACL since. My knee has been unstable, with no pain really tho, and after spending the last 3 years strengthening everything around the knee and still feeling this instability, I decided to seek help. Over this period, however, I sought help from many doctors, getting multiple X-rays, PT. Most recently though, I pushed very hard for an MRI, admittedly malingering/overexaggerating my to influence perceived acuity. Inadvertently, after getting an MRI today, it has shown that I have a completely torn MRI. Here is the impression: 1. Chronic complete tear of the right ACL.
2. Peripheral vertical undersurface tear of the posterior horn of the medial meniscus without displacement; this may represent a healed meniscal tear at this point versus a small ramp lesion.
3. Intact articular cartilage. 4. Minimal right knee joint effusion. How it happened: During training one day, my coach tried to enter into the Saddle/Inside Sankaku position, without adequately lifting my lower body with his butterfly hook. As a result, the "chopping" leg, chopped at my knee, and as it usually is supposed to sweep my legs out from underneath me, because I had so much weight on my lower body, my foot was stuck to the ground and my knee popped. **LMK if this wasn't detailed enough** Can you please make a video on this scenario and explain why its dangerous and what to do as the top/bottom player to avoid this?
Very informative. How should we escape from a smash pass position then? I find myself flaring out my knees most of the time and didn't know i was actually putting my knee in danger.
Can you please make a series of rehab exercises for knee injury recovery for grappling sports? I injured my MCL and ACL on competition in a heel hook like rotational motion. Nothing tore completely and I've been through therapy (which was a joke btw) but it's been 7 months already and there's all kinds of problems with my knee. I think I need a good rehab, but I don't know where to look. So any help would be much appreciated.
Wow man! You're the best. You told me on instagram you'd make a video about this and so you did! Thank you so much! Tore my lcl doing bjj last month. Not planning on repeating 😂
Thanks for this. Just injured my lcl just grade 1 but made me aware of just how fragile knees are! Knowing the risks can help prevent injury and keep us training. (Trained today 2 days post but just drilling technique no resistance or live rolling) BTW I was at Kasai and before he got hurt I was concerned with his leg entry angle with such a large opponent as Rocha. I was wondering if Gordon picked that up from craig jones but craig comes in semi inverted so the weight is more hip distributed vs Gordon who took it on the knee.
Super late comment to the game here, but does Craig's entry from Reverse X (on his DVD) need to be adjusted for preventing this type of injury? He does make a good point about getting your hips to the sky rather than using your knee to get them to the ground.
Great material @Abs I would like to ask if Delariva and semilasso positions have this same component of torque around the LCL and what would you do to prevent it?
@Emmet Bergin I feel the pressure on the knee would be a different angle and the opponents body weight isn't on it. I wonder if the 10th planet guys suffer with their knees.
@@Stedemn 10p has a lot of techniques that can be dangerous regardkess of how flexible you are. Lockdown, rubber guard, gogoplatas, some of their guard recoveries that involve forcing the butterfly hooks in from bottom side or half all run the risk of knee injuries. I honestly wouldn't use any of them.
The rubber guard can cause injuries if it's forced due to a lack of flexibility. I know a few people that injured their knees/ struggled with knee pain due to forcing the rubber guard using poor technique. I personally use the rubber guard a lot and I did struggle with my knees when I started of with it a couple of years ago as I lacked the required flexibility and didn't train at a 10p gym at the time so I didn't have proper instruction either. Now as I'm pretty flexible (can easily put both of my legs behind my head) I don't have any problems with my knee. Even when playing gogo clinch and getting stacked. My tip is to work with angles if you lack flexibility (of course, it's also required for it to be effective) and playing new york (holding around you knee) so that you're not forcing you ancle way past you knee line. And let go if people stack you or go the omoplata route.
Yes it is a dangerous position. I don't use rubberguard so much anymore. I have had some ruptures on the LCL from playing rubberguard nothing major but it's a high risk position.
Id love to hear what Lachlan thinks about rubber guard. I personally have seen a whole lot up people pull their leg into rubber guard on foot first and it worries me. I play more Williams guard but when I do play mission control I always pull knee first. The knee moves towards my opponents shoulder as a clamp as opposed to a flare like in this video
I thought he said "injury" and made this after the injury as a breakdown, then i realized he said "entry" and actually did this before the injury (?). Mind blown.
Think I injured my LCL but the weird thing is pressure came from the lateral side. The most tender part seems to be where LCL attaches to fibula but I don’t know what I’m doing. Vargus stress test causes pain and even worse with slight maybe 30 degree bend in knee. Pain refers on lateral side of knee when applying pressure on the ankle TOWARDS lateral side and on the knee pressuring towards medial side. I was caught in a Russian on my left arm and opponent stepped inside my left leg and pushed forward. He was 260lb while I am 180-185 so I bent my knee a bit trying not to have it snap in half lol. He fell backwards not onto my leg but I think that inward pressure on the outside of my knee pushing it towards the other maybe put a small tear in the bottom side of LCL? Doesn’t seem so severe again I know nothing but from what I read I might call it high end of grade 1 low end of grade 2 sprain. Really bummed but will find other ways to stay active until I feel well enough to do some type of rehab exercises for surrounding muscles. Doing RICE and have a knee brace for when I have to go somewhere. Feels like best think is to keep my leg mostly straight and avoid anything that causes aggravation at the moment. I’m eating a whole food high protein medium carb / fat diet supplementing with omega 3 and black seed oil as well as vitamin D and occasional magnesium. Hope this is all a good recovery plan. If it feels any worse tomorrow or no improvement in a week will go see ortho but I figure this is what they would tell me to do anyway without MRI. Really cool to see this in a jiu jitsu context
So I am noticing a lot that my left knee is dislocating and relocating shortly thereafter. Am I able to strengthen my knee so that this happens less frequently?
My Acl popped this way. I was trying to recover guard putting in a butterfly hook even though I was passed and the guy sprawled. Any idea why my acl gave out instead of the lcl? Maybe it was damaged before? I had surgery and am back to training for maybe 2 years now.
Is the butterfly groin stretch bad for your LCL in this same manner or is it okay since your ankle is in a stable location on the ground and you are just pushing your knees towards the ground as well?
Lachlan is the risk of meniscus damage great here? Would you think the LCL would go before the meniscus? I did a butterfly sweep in tournament last weekend that got put into a folder and pop goes the weasel. Only thing is it did not swell the next day nor did it hurt considerably. I was moving around a bit and the knee kind of popped again. It does not feel unstable. Anyways, Gonna get an MRI and what not and get it all checked out but Just wondering your thoughts on the meniscus...
Any tips on how to prevent leg injury whenever your opponent throws their entire bodyweight at you and jumps guard during the stand up battle? This has been a huge fear of mine
I recently injured my mcl, is it possible to strengthen ligaments or at the least reduce scar tissue in the rehab process (I'd pay a physio to answer that question but I'm broke af)
An injury prevention in grappling series would be very interesting and unique
Fabrício Werdum also any content on rehabbing lcl tears would be great. Not a lot of content out there as it’s primarily grapplers that get these injuries
Third! how to roll safely , especially for older grapplers :D
Fourth this!!!!
5th! Thank you for this video
Totally, jui jitsu has a long way to go in terms of injury prevention at all levels of training, from technique to programming.
You told me in the change room 1 hour ago you'd be doing a video on this, and here we are.
Lachlan Giles does not disappoint.
Oh my god are you mcspud?
Solid information, thank you Lachlan ☺️
did this yesterday trying to false reap. i pushed my knee outward instead of inverting and getting my toes to the mat, instant pop
Lachlan, you’re right on. He completely tore his LCL confirmed by MRI.
Revisiting this analysis now that I'm nursing an LCL injury myself. Point taken about elevating from half butterfly in order to set up the saddle entry. But broader question overall: since the LCL injury occurs when top player's downward pressure clashes against bottom player's outward knee flare, does that then say something about an inherent structural weakness in the half-butterfly altogether? For those of us hobbyists looking to play this game, but prioritize ligament health over positional dominance, should we be bailing out of the position altogether at a certain point of structural compromise?
Gordon Ryan just suffered an lcl tear two days after you released this....
Benjamin Clark and acl
Damn
@@seantopeleven6863 no
He made it because of his injury..
Nice vid! So cool to see Vagner Rocha trains in Australia
Lucas Kanard I hate you
Ari T I second that. Fuck you lucas
He does look like him, what is the fuss?
Thank you Lachlan! On behalf of a lot of knees 😂🎉
I feel like when I do this entry what saves me is I invert more which loads up the weight more on my hamstrings. I will definitely be more mindful when doing this type of entry. Thanks for the video!
This was a great video. Training triangle defense with my partner I suffered this injury. I couldn’t rotate my leg like that comfortably for 6 months.
Thanks, please do more vídeos about this matter( preventing injures). And come to Barcelona we need teachers like you.
Great advice. More mechanically dangerous techniques from a PT point of view please.
That was extremely beneficial Lachlan! Thank you
Thank you for the information.
This is gold, thanks for putting resources like this out there.
Awesome video! More like this would definitely be interesting!
very informative please do more videos on these types of injuries
As I am just starting to learn and play with heel hooks this video helps a to , thank you for saving my lcl’s I was wondering why both lcls on my knees were sore.
Excellent tip
very clear, been having pain there for sure from playing rubber guard like positions.
A real nugget of knowledge with general applicability. Thanks Professor!
Thank you. This was valuable information that may save us all from a lot of injuries 👍
Thanks like always lachlan
this might save a lot of knees!
With his experience and education I'm interested in Lachlans views on prehab
GREAT VIDEO. I honestly had about next to no idea about the risks of this and I'm really happy you demonstrated the healthier way to enter the saddle. Feels like one of the most useful jiu jitsu videos I've ever watched, not many injuy prevention ones of this kind out there.
Excellent details!
I subscribed to your channel because of this video. Great content. Looking forward to more. Thank you.
Giles:1 Danaher: 0
How did Giles do at adcc against Gordon?
Tom Jones pretty good for someone 10+ years older, training in an isolated part of the world with a 20kg weight disadvantage
Dear Lachlan & the Absolute MMA team. I just found out today that I tore my right ACL 3 years ago and have been training with a torn ACL since. My knee has been unstable, with no pain really tho, and after spending the last 3 years strengthening everything around the knee and still feeling this instability, I decided to seek help. Over this period, however, I sought help from many doctors, getting multiple X-rays, PT. Most recently though, I pushed very hard for an MRI, admittedly malingering/overexaggerating my to influence perceived acuity. Inadvertently, after getting an MRI today, it has shown that I have a completely torn MRI. Here is the impression:
1. Chronic complete tear of the right ACL.
2. Peripheral vertical undersurface tear of the posterior horn of the
medial meniscus without displacement; this may represent a healed meniscal
tear at this point versus a small ramp lesion.
3. Intact articular cartilage.
4. Minimal right knee joint effusion.
How it happened: During training one day, my coach tried to enter into the Saddle/Inside Sankaku position, without adequately lifting my lower body with his butterfly hook. As a result, the "chopping" leg, chopped at my knee, and as it usually is supposed to sweep my legs out from underneath me, because I had so much weight on my lower body, my foot was stuck to the ground and my knee popped. **LMK if this wasn't detailed enough**
Can you please make a video on this scenario and explain why its dangerous and what to do as the top/bottom player to avoid this?
Very insightful video
Whoa. More stuff like this would be so helpful. I sometimes wonder about closed guard and how it stresses the knees.
Thanks for the breakdown! Great info for saving knees
Best teacher!!
Thank you, Dr. Giles!
man, such clear explanation!
Nice one Lachie. Thank you
Very informative. How should we escape from a smash pass position then? I find myself flaring out my knees most of the time and didn't know i was actually putting my knee in danger.
Maybe hip heist out of it or something.
I did this before. It hurts. Great tip!
Thanks for the info.
Thanks Lachy. Perfect.
Appreciate you
Brilliant. 👏
Thanks Lachlan...Oss!
Great information!
Can you please make a series of rehab exercises for knee injury recovery for grappling sports?
I injured my MCL and ACL on competition in a heel hook like rotational motion. Nothing tore completely and I've been through therapy (which was a joke btw) but it's been 7 months already and there's all kinds of problems with my knee. I think I need a good rehab, but I don't know where to look. So any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks that was really helpful
Ooss
very helpful to visualize. thank you.
Lachlan Giles is Da Man.
Great video.
Thank you for posting this! Very important details
Wow man! You're the best. You told me on instagram you'd make a video about this and so you did! Thank you so much! Tore my lcl doing bjj last month. Not planning on repeating 😂
More like this!
this is my warm up video before class
Thanks man, that was nice of you
This is very helpful, Thanks!
Happened to me when I was trying to enter body triangle from the back!
Awtch. I wish you a speedy recovery my friend
Thanks Lachlan, tore my LCL pumaling my leg in
Thanks so much.
thanks
Ok..so not only is Giles a professor in BJJ but also in Physio..
Definitely in the running for the G.O.A.T channel...
Great info! Thanks for sharing!
Is there a danger to the LCL when playing the key master guard or the matrix guard that Langaker and Espen play??
Thanks for this. Just injured my lcl just grade 1 but made me aware of just how fragile knees are! Knowing the risks can help prevent injury and keep us training. (Trained today 2 days post but just drilling technique no resistance or live rolling) BTW I was at Kasai and before he got hurt I was concerned with his leg entry angle with such a large opponent as Rocha. I was wondering if Gordon picked that up from craig jones but craig comes in semi inverted so the weight is more hip distributed vs Gordon who took it on the knee.
So are you saying false reap entry is dangerous and risky, thus not do do it, LG? Thanks!
Great video 👍🏼
Thanks for the video. I truly do appreciate it, now I’m scared and do t want to roll anymore.
Super late comment to the game here, but does Craig's entry from Reverse X (on his DVD) need to be adjusted for preventing this type of injury? He does make a good point about getting your hips to the sky rather than using your knee to get them to the ground.
Great material @Abs I would like to ask if Delariva and semilasso positions have this same component of torque around the LCL and what would you do to prevent it?
Thank you!!!!
Would the rubber guard cause the same issues?
@Emmet Bergin I feel the pressure on the knee would be a different angle and the opponents body weight isn't on it. I wonder if the 10th planet guys suffer with their knees.
@@Stedemn 10p has a lot of techniques that can be dangerous regardkess of how flexible you are. Lockdown, rubber guard, gogoplatas, some of their guard recoveries that involve forcing the butterfly hooks in from bottom side or half all run the risk of knee injuries. I honestly wouldn't use any of them.
The rubber guard can cause injuries if it's forced due to a lack of flexibility. I know a few people that injured their knees/ struggled with knee pain due to forcing the rubber guard using poor technique.
I personally use the rubber guard a lot and I did struggle with my knees when I started of with it a couple of years ago as I lacked the required flexibility and didn't train at a 10p gym at the time so I didn't have proper instruction either.
Now as I'm pretty flexible (can easily put both of my legs behind my head) I don't have any problems with my knee. Even when playing gogo clinch and getting stacked.
My tip is to work with angles if you lack flexibility (of course, it's also required for it to be effective) and playing new york (holding around you knee) so that you're not forcing you ancle way past you knee line. And let go if people stack you or go the omoplata route.
Yes it is a dangerous position. I don't use rubberguard so much anymore. I have had some ruptures on the LCL from playing rubberguard nothing major but it's a high risk position.
Id love to hear what Lachlan thinks about rubber guard. I personally have seen a whole lot up people pull their leg into rubber guard on foot first and it worries me. I play more Williams guard but when I do play mission control I always pull knee first. The knee moves towards my opponents shoulder as a clamp as opposed to a flare like in this video
Is he saying that if the LCL ruptures even surgery can not correct?
I thought he said "injury" and made this after the injury as a breakdown, then i realized he said "entry" and actually did this before the injury (?). Mind blown.
Think I injured my LCL but the weird thing is pressure came from the lateral side. The most tender part seems to be where LCL attaches to fibula but I don’t know what I’m doing.
Vargus stress test causes pain and even worse with slight maybe 30 degree bend in knee. Pain refers on lateral side of knee when applying pressure on the ankle TOWARDS lateral side and on the knee pressuring towards medial side.
I was caught in a Russian on my left arm and opponent stepped inside my left leg and pushed forward. He was 260lb while I am 180-185 so I bent my knee a bit trying not to have it snap in half lol.
He fell backwards not onto my leg but I think that inward pressure on the outside of my knee pushing it towards the other maybe put a small tear in the bottom side of LCL?
Doesn’t seem so severe again I know nothing but from what I read I might call it high end of grade 1 low end of grade 2 sprain. Really bummed but will find other ways to stay active until I feel well enough to do some type of rehab exercises for surrounding muscles.
Doing RICE and have a knee brace for when I have to go somewhere. Feels like best think is to keep my leg mostly straight and avoid anything that causes aggravation at the moment.
I’m eating a whole food high protein medium carb / fat diet supplementing with omega 3 and black seed oil as well as vitamin D and occasional magnesium.
Hope this is all a good recovery plan. If it feels any worse tomorrow or no improvement in a week will go see ortho but I figure this is what they would tell me to do anyway without MRI.
Really cool to see this in a jiu jitsu context
I just retook BJJ after 8 years so this is pretty good as I don´t know many modern positions.
So I am noticing a lot that my left knee is dislocating and relocating shortly thereafter. Am I able to strengthen my knee so that this happens less frequently?
How bad is cranking on Triangles and figure of fours for your knees?
I heard Ryan talking about this in the beginning of his Flo Grappling interview in fist full of collars
Are their risks with single leg X with the foot that goes on the hip? When your opponent stacks you or when you try that “outwards twisting sweep”?
Is inverting during the entry is not a way to reduce the LCL pressure ?
My Acl popped this way. I was trying to recover guard putting in a butterfly hook even though I was passed and the guy sprawled. Any idea why my acl gave out instead of the lcl? Maybe it was damaged before? I had surgery and am back to training for maybe 2 years now.
I recently back stepped into the saddle entry and unbeknownst to me I flared my knee and heard three pops in my knee. 😭
Tips on how not to kill myself while getting better at cross ashi? Gold, pure gold.
Lachlan, would Tarikoplata be the same?
Is the butterfly groin stretch bad for your LCL in this same manner or is it okay since your ankle is in a stable location on the ground and you are just pushing your knees towards the ground as well?
What do you think about unweighted sissy squats? Do they damage your knees?
i did this yesterday, RIP my LCL
Are De la Rivas (classic & reverse) good candidates for breaking lcl ?
Lachlan is the risk of meniscus damage great here? Would you think the LCL would go before the meniscus? I did a butterfly sweep in tournament last weekend that got put into a folder and pop goes the weasel. Only thing is it did not swell the next day nor did it hurt considerably. I was moving around a bit and the knee kind of popped again. It does not feel unstable. Anyways, Gonna get an MRI and what not and get it all checked out but Just wondering your thoughts on the meniscus...
Also if you wanted to see the match from a data perspective I could probably get it to you.
Thats the best like dislike Ratio I have seen on youtube
Dear Lachlan ,
Any advice on how to strengthen the LCL? or knee in general.
All the best,
Dan
Any tips on how to prevent leg injury whenever your opponent throws their entire bodyweight at you and jumps guard during the stand up battle? This has been a huge fear of mine
What you're describing at 1:49 sounds a lot like rubber guard 😬
I recently injured my mcl, is it possible to strengthen ligaments or at the least reduce scar tissue in the rehab process (I'd pay a physio to answer that question but I'm broke af)
Well you were right about that.. Gordon Ryan tore his LCL as reported today by bloodyelbow.com
Did Gordon Ryan rupture his LCL after this video came out or is it just a complete coincidence?
Lachlan has a PhD?! Siiiiiiiick!
Is this also a risk when playing DLR or RDLR?
RDLR is safer IMHO. Especially if you maintain the correct angle in relation to your opponent.
Aaaaand Gordon Ryan tears his LCL in breaking news.
You're either an oracle or witch doctor...
Wow! What the hell. I wonder if Ryan tore his LCL from this exact entry (I didn’t see the match)
pretty sure he made this video in response to gordons match
now i just have to figure out how to repair my lcl or just keep rolling on it ;(
Thank u for saving my knees!! Lol