1. I don't think you can compare this case to letting your child drive your car, and then you're prosecuted if they drive drunk: It would be comparable if you knew they were driving and bought them alcohol. 2. Any concerns that this precendent might lead to more convictions of parents who buy their children guns and then dont control them does not seem like a bad result at all! At some point, we have to start looking for a way to make it harder for kids to kill their innocent peers and if that means that some parents might not want guns in their homes or are stressed by having to lock up guns, I can not see that is unreasonable or even undesirable.
Yeah, yeah, yeah: teenagers are hard to monitor, yadayadayadah. However, when a parent actually purchases a gun for said teenager, they ARE responsible, and should be held responsible, for what happens as a result. I bet the Crumbleys wish they had bought a new dog, to replace the recently departed one that was beloved by their son, instead of a gun!
Well what if a kid steals their parents’ gun? Does it depend on how they control the guns in their house? What if they give their kid a gun but just say it’s their gun and the kid stole it? Seems to make things a bit complicated. But I don’t think it’s not doable. We should have a multi pronged approach and on the face it seems like we need some way for parents to second guess having their kids have access to guns.
New understanding of brain development tells us we shouldn’t even be driving until 23. In the US we have 23 year old parents teaching their 6 year olds to shoot. FFS - can we just TRY to improve on the species a bit?
Science tells us that the brain keeps developing into the mid to late twenties. At what age or level of development a particular activity or risk should be allowed is a political and ethical matter. Which being a youth liberationist I am far apart from your position on.
The jury can now go and watch EC’s Miller trial and see that JC lied on the witness stand!! EC was having hallucinations. I’m a parent and I got my son help despite him telling me he was fine when I saw a change in behavior.
I will never understand the mentality that equates guns (especially handguns) with everyday tools, implements, utensils, appliances and equipment. Yes, knives, hammers, sharpened pencils and pens . . . can all be used to maim and kill. A plugged in toaster can be thrown into a bath tub with someone in it. A cell phone can be thrown at someone’s head. Guns are in their own separate category as their purpose is - unless used for target shooting - to fire bullets at objects (vandalism), animals (hunting), or people (murder or, perhaps, self defense). While I’m not anti-gun, it is irresponsible to hand a gun to an adolescent without proper supervision and oversight; in the case of Ms. Crumbley, criminally so.
AND NOBODY NOBODY CHECKS THE KIDS BACKPACK IN OFFICE DURING THIS MEETING??? Hey Ethan. What you got in the bag buddy ??!?!?! EVERYBODY IS NEGLIGENT HERE. EVERYBODY.
The crime here is allowing a teenager access to a gun. At a minimum, no one under the age of 18 should be allowed to have a gun unless in the presence of a parent.
I can remember days in high school when people would show up with guns in their vehicles because they came straight from hunting in the early morning hours. We did not have ONE mass shooting. The problem is society does not respect the value of a human life. Society has become desensitized to it. What can you expect when everything they see and hear on a daily basis is violent. Our youths are not being taught the value of of human life. They are not learning to have respect for it. They are not taught how the loss of a person affects the whole family. They just don't care.
New understanding of brain development tells us they shouldn’t even be driving until 23. In the US we have 23 year old parents teaching their 6 year olds to shoot. FFS - can we just TRY to improve on the species a bit?
This is such a tragic case of psychological and emotional neglect in this family. There are so many layers of what went wrong in the lives of the parents and the son. As parents we all make mistakes and have horrible judgment at times. We just need to be vigilant in our own actions and hope and pray our many faults don’t rise to this level of consequences; my heart aches for the son, the parents and of course for the innocent victims! That being said. In my opinion this reporting seems to be inserting some personal bias and proper gun ownership naiveté. This is evident by the attempt-to-shock the readers with the following: 1. Surprise at the very normal event of parents who live a rural life purchasing a gun for their son. 2. Surprise at the parent taking the responsible step of accompanying the son at the gun range where safety and rules are taught. 3. The attempt to shock the listeners that the pistol is a “semiautomatic”, (most all pistols are). 4. The disdain evident in the description of the son and mother standing in “the shooters position” which is the correct technique every educated gun owner is taught to use. There is nothing abnormal or wrong with any of these four points. Millions of responsible citizens participate in these very activities without any negative consequences. These activities in and of themselves are in fact very responsible activities. The report from this point forward then returns to a more accurate picture of the downward spiral; unrecognized emotional trauma in a child, untrained parents of what to do if emotional trauma is recognized, unlocked gun safes and trigger locks, etc. There is a long list. In my opinion the issue of the gun ownership needs to be separated from the issue of psychological abnormalities. An individual with the propensity to harm others will find a way to do so whether or not a gun is present.
I can remember days in high school when people would show up with guns in their vehicles because they came straight from hunting in the early morning hours. We did not have ONE mass shooting. Yes, the mother should have recognized the symptoms and responded accordingly. The problem is society does not respect the value of a human life anymore. Society has become desensitized to it. What do you expect when everything they see and hear on a daily basis is violent. Our youths are not being taught the value of of human life. They are not taught to respect it. They are not taught how the loss of a person affects the whole family. They are not taught that there are others ways to deal with issues other than resorting to violence. Society has failed.
I find the "blame the parents" response to young people's bad actions in general to be inappropriate, though understandable. Minors are capable of disobeying parents (as anyone who has raised kids knows), the parents shouldn't be charged unless they actively encourage or coerce their minor child to commit an offence. Especially as it is legal for the kid to have access to a handgun when his non-felon parents over 21 get it for them and it is a bona fide gift not a straw purchase. I believe they were bad and irresponsible parents to let an adolescent in serious mental trouble have such unsupervised access, indeed someone like that shouldn't be bought a gun at all, but I am not comfortable with locking them up for being an irresponsible parent.
Just curious if they gave IQ tests to these parents - or evaluated them for personality disorders. I’m not offering an excuse, but damn there is definitely something off here. That boy kind of breaks my heart.
You want a car? Buy it yourself and I can bet you'll take better care of it because you're paying for it. Same goes with buying a gun. Parents want to believe in their children but the reality is that young adults are more vulnerable than parents want to believe. Antidepressants and murder are connected, many studies have shown these results.
What a load. I know guns have been normalized in the US, but to the point that we think they are actually of any use other than as a weapon? You said "steak knife," as is can be used to cut steak... She bought a gun for an obviously troubled teen, didn't bother to make sure it was secured, and then bother to check where it was when they called her to the school to say he was writing about blood everywhere... Give me a break. There is no comparison to buying your child a dining utensil.
If for some unfathomable reason you’d just bought your kid steak knives and he had just drawn a picture with steak knives and blood and “help,” and the school had taken him out of class because they were so worried and called in you in, what would any normal, responsible parent then do? Go back to work?
She is an irresponsible negligent mother and his father probably is too. They are totally responsible. Her telling him to not get caught when he was looking for bullets completely shows she is responsible for not stopping him. She is told he is suicidal and she has a gun not locked up...The Columbine shooter's mother was a textbook narcissist and that is why her son became one. Just as this one did. If that reporter was sucked in by her, she needs to learn how to recognise a narc and the harm they do.
1. I don't think you can compare this case to letting your child drive your car, and then you're prosecuted if they drive drunk: It would be comparable if you knew they were driving and bought them alcohol.
2. Any concerns that this precendent might lead to more convictions of parents who buy their children guns and then dont control them does not seem like a bad result at all!
At some point, we have to start looking for a way to make it harder for kids to kill their innocent peers and if that means that some parents might not want guns in their homes or are stressed by having to lock up guns, I can not see that is unreasonable or even undesirable.
You can compare it to cars. My boy has a gun. He's not shooting people
Yeah, yeah, yeah: teenagers are hard to monitor, yadayadayadah. However, when a parent actually purchases a gun for said teenager, they ARE responsible, and should be held responsible, for what happens as a result. I bet the Crumbleys wish they had bought a new dog, to replace the recently departed one that was beloved by their son, instead of a gun!
Cars kill more people. You see where this is going?
Well what if a kid steals their parents’ gun? Does it depend on how they control the guns in their house? What if they give their kid a gun but just say it’s their gun and the kid stole it? Seems to make things a bit complicated. But I don’t think it’s not doable. We should have a multi pronged approach and on the face it seems like we need some way for parents to second guess having their kids have access to guns.
New understanding of brain development tells us we shouldn’t even be driving until 23. In the US we have 23 year old parents teaching their 6 year olds to shoot. FFS - can we just TRY to improve on the species a bit?
Science tells us that the brain keeps developing into the mid to late twenties. At what age or level of development a particular activity or risk should be allowed is a political and ethical matter. Which being a youth liberationist I am far apart from your position on.
So terribly sad. A peculiarly American story. Again, so terribly sad.
The jury can now go and watch EC’s Miller trial and see that JC lied on the witness stand!! EC was having hallucinations. I’m a parent and I got my son help despite him telling me he was fine when I saw a change in behavior.
I also got my son help despite him saying he was “fine” when I knew he wasn’t!
I will never understand the mentality that equates guns (especially handguns) with everyday tools, implements, utensils, appliances and equipment. Yes, knives, hammers, sharpened pencils and pens . . . can all be used to maim and kill. A plugged in toaster can be thrown into a bath tub with someone in it. A cell phone can be thrown at someone’s head. Guns are in their own separate category as their purpose is - unless used for target shooting - to fire bullets at objects (vandalism), animals (hunting), or people (murder or, perhaps, self defense). While I’m not anti-gun, it is irresponsible to hand a gun to an adolescent without proper supervision and oversight; in the case of Ms. Crumbley, criminally so.
AND NOBODY NOBODY CHECKS THE KIDS BACKPACK IN OFFICE DURING THIS MEETING??? Hey Ethan. What you got in the bag buddy ??!?!?! EVERYBODY IS NEGLIGENT HERE. EVERYBODY.
The crime here is allowing a teenager access to a gun. At a minimum, no one under the age of 18 should be allowed to have a gun unless in the presence of a parent.
😅😂 ok. Then no gender surgeries till 18
I can remember days in high school when people would show up with guns in their vehicles because they came straight from hunting in the early morning hours. We did not have ONE mass shooting. The problem is society does not respect the value of a human life. Society has become desensitized to it. What can you expect when everything they see and hear on a daily basis is violent. Our youths are not being taught the value of of human life. They are not learning to have respect for it. They are not taught how the loss of a person affects the whole family. They just don't care.
New understanding of brain development tells us they shouldn’t even be driving until 23. In the US we have 23 year old parents teaching their 6 year olds to shoot. FFS - can we just TRY to improve on the species a bit?
Excellent trial recap and discussion. So sad that this happens.
Wouldn't the school be negligent as well for not checking backpack and not keeping an eye on him?
Puberty is hell on some guys sheesh
This is such a tragic case of psychological and emotional neglect in this family. There are so many layers of what went wrong in the lives of the parents and the son. As parents we all make mistakes and have horrible judgment at times. We just need to be vigilant in our own actions and hope and pray our many faults don’t rise to this level of consequences; my heart aches for the son, the parents and of course for the innocent victims!
That being said. In my opinion this reporting seems to be inserting some personal bias and proper gun ownership naiveté. This is evident by the attempt-to-shock the readers with the following:
1. Surprise at the very normal event of parents who live a rural life purchasing a gun for their son. 2. Surprise at the parent taking the responsible step of accompanying the son at the gun range where safety and rules are taught. 3. The attempt to shock the listeners that the pistol is a “semiautomatic”, (most all pistols are). 4. The disdain evident in the description of the son and mother standing in “the shooters position” which is the correct technique every educated gun owner is taught to use.
There is nothing abnormal or wrong with any of these four points. Millions of responsible citizens participate in these very activities without any negative consequences. These activities in and of themselves are in fact very responsible activities.
The report from this point forward then returns to a more accurate picture of the downward spiral; unrecognized emotional trauma in a child, untrained parents of what to do if emotional trauma is recognized, unlocked gun safes and trigger locks, etc. There is a long list. In my opinion the issue of the gun ownership needs to be separated from the issue of psychological abnormalities. An individual with the propensity to harm others will find a way to do so whether or not a gun is present.
I can remember days in high school when people would show up with guns in their vehicles because they came straight from hunting in the early morning hours. We did not have ONE mass shooting. Yes, the mother should have recognized the symptoms and responded accordingly. The problem is society does not respect the value of a human life anymore. Society has become desensitized to it. What do you expect when everything they see and hear on a daily basis is violent. Our youths are not being taught the value of of human life. They are not taught to respect it. They are not taught how the loss of a person affects the whole family. They are not taught that there are others ways to deal with issues other than resorting to violence. Society has failed.
I find the "blame the parents" response to young people's bad actions in general to be inappropriate, though understandable. Minors are capable of disobeying parents (as anyone who has raised kids knows), the parents shouldn't be charged unless they actively encourage or coerce their minor child to commit an offence.
Especially as it is legal for the kid to have access to a handgun when his non-felon parents over 21 get it for them and it is a bona fide gift not a straw purchase. I believe they were bad and irresponsible parents to let an adolescent in serious mental trouble have such unsupervised access, indeed someone like that shouldn't be bought a gun at all, but I am not comfortable with locking them up for being an irresponsible parent.
Who tf references Taylor Swift in a school shooter case
Just curious if they gave IQ tests to these parents - or evaluated them for personality disorders. I’m not offering an excuse, but damn there is definitely something off here. That boy kind of breaks my heart.
You want a car? Buy it yourself and I can bet you'll take better care of it because you're paying for it. Same goes with buying a gun.
Parents want to believe in their children but the reality is that young adults are more vulnerable than parents want to believe. Antidepressants and murder are connected, many studies have shown these results.
The podcast wasn't necessary.
You only had to say "evil government. Been doing it for two hundred years".
When do they decide you as parents need to be jailed for buying your kids steak knives?
Im thinking.. not far off now.
What a load.
I know guns have been normalized in the US, but to the point that we think they are actually of any use other than as a weapon?
You said "steak knife," as is can be used to cut steak...
She bought a gun for an obviously troubled teen, didn't bother to make sure it was secured, and then bother to check where it was when they called her to the school to say he was writing about blood everywhere...
Give me a break. There is no comparison to buying your child a dining utensil.
If for some unfathomable reason you’d just bought your kid steak knives and he had just drawn a picture with steak knives and blood and “help,” and the school had taken him out of class because they were so worried and called in you in, what would any normal, responsible parent then do? Go back to work?
You're beyond dumb if you think household every day knives and guns are comparable lol exactly why need to better judgement.
You couldn't see the whole truth if it bit you in the ass!😴
You’re right too.
Sounds to me like this kid was trying to be extra edgy
My son!
My husband!
No connection tithe two.
I watched this trial as much as was reported.
Zero affect😢
Tragic
She is an irresponsible negligent mother and his father probably is too. They are totally responsible. Her telling him to not get caught when he was looking for bullets completely shows she is responsible for not stopping him. She is told he is suicidal and she has a gun not locked up...The Columbine shooter's mother was a textbook narcissist and that is why her son became one. Just as this one did. If that reporter was sucked in by her, she needs to learn how to recognise a narc and the harm they do.
I wonder if charging him as an adult means it will be overturned? Like sinxe they say he was an adult with his punishment
Li
Actually I take it back, Ethan needs his conviction overturned....
Yeah, I had that thought too. This young man was failed on so many levels.
the whole world is stupid look around you she is no different then you or you or you