Why a school shooter’s mom is also going to prison | About That
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- Опубліковано 7 лют 2024
- A jury has found Jennifer Crumbley, the mother of Michigan school shooter Ethan Crumbley, guilty of involuntary manslaughter. About That producer Lauren Bird breaks down the argument made in court that led to the guilty verdict and what precedent the case could set.
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they gave their disturbed child a gun after he asked for mental health help and did nothing to help the kid even after he drew the pictures and the school called them in, yes they should go to prison
This is a dark thought.. maybe they wanted him to “off” himself…cause why would a parent of a child hearing voices get them a GUN!?!
The fact he literally begged his parents for help. They failed him
That's what really sticks in my mind. Many adolescents struggle with mental health in silence but he was literally begging for intervention and was laughed at by his own mom. How utterly careless and neglectful.
Yes. The inaction is stunning. I feel like his parents had so little time for their son. It's like they wanted him to suck it up to grow up and not need them for anything anymore. It's so sad that this kid begged for help. In my experience, boys don't talk about their deep feelings to other boys. Yet, Ethan had a friend he actually talked to about it. I'm happy for Ethan he was able to experience that kind of friendship and an ability to get vulnerable. It's too bad his own parents couldn’t do what was really necessary. All they did was give him a present. Throwing money at a situation isn't helpful.
I've known too many kids that suffer because their parents "don't believe in mental health." It seems these people didn't believe in controlling the gun that was their responsibility any more than helping their kid.
It's not hard to just NOT buy your kid a gun!
I bet you are not an American. We all think differently than these folks:(
@@thepeacechannel7083 Nope, American born and raised. I've always been taught the maniacal gun fans live in the south - don't know if this family's blase attitude about guns is common in Detroit or if they're an anomaly.
Kid was in no position to handle a gun, very ignorant move 😮
I'm wondering why it's just the mom getting sentenced? What about the dad? Wasn't he the one that bought the kid the gun? And I thought he was also at the school meeting with the teacher or principal also. Is the dad's trial upcoming?
@melanies.6030 James crumbley's trial is March 5th I believe. They are being tried separately
The fact that Jennifer said she wouldn’t have done anything differently shows that she has no insight into the situation and what she could have done to prevent this horrible incident. She is definitely guilty of not caring for her son’s mental health.
If she admitted the things she should have done.... then that would be admitting neglect of her struggling child.
@@Him_He_Me true, but it’s still shocking to hear.
Lol, the judgement of Americans is laughable 💯🍄🍄🍄🍄🍄🍄🍄🍿🙅🕺
I thought she said she would do things differently. Didn’t she say I would of rather he killed us?
It was really jarring for me to hear that, as someone who has a family member who died by suicide with a gun. I wasn’t even in the same state at the time it happened, but at the time I felt like there was something I could have done to stop it, and everyone in my family felt that way. However, I would bet probably was told by her attorney to say that.
"I wouldn't have done anything differently" = refusing to take responsibility for her minor son
More like, refusing to take responsibility _for her own actions_ .
She's not being held responsible for what her son did; she's being held responsible for what she herself did -- which to be clear was (a) repeatedly refusing to seek proper help despite clear signs, her son's own pleas, and urgent professional advice.
(b) providing her son free access to a dangerous weapon (again, despite those signs) -- and then failing to exercise even the most basic safety protocols expected of parents keeping a firearm in the home.
And to top it off, she's still refusing to acknowledge that she (at best) exercised extremely poor judgement, or that she could have and should have taken greater care and attention -- with regards to either her child, or the pistol.
This isn't really a "parental responsibility" case, it's just a "criminal negligence" case, involving a couple of parents.
@@bernardkung7306yep, that’s why she was found guilty of involuntary homicide. Her criminal negligence directly contributed to the deaths of those 4 children.
@@bernardkung7306she’s absolutely being held responsible for someone else’s actions. Otherwise she wouldn’t have been charged with manslaughter. Stop trying to limit the rights of others
@@macysondheim I'm sorry you're having trouble with simple, straight-forward logic, and basic legal terminology.
I can't help you with the logical-reasoning problem, but I _can_ suggest that you look up the meaning of 'manslaughter' and 'involuntary manslaughter' pretty easily -- perhaps that will help.
This is the most troubling! She doesn’t see that she could have made difference decisions.
My son is hearing voices, and taking pictures of the demon in the house? Better go to the gun shop... seriously what?
It’s truly mind blowing.
Maybe he needs protection. Not every kid turns out to be a school shooter.
@@macysondheim did you even?. 🙄
He didn’t need protection, he needed therapy & meds.
@@macysondheimprotection from what? The “demons” throwing the bowls ? Smh 🤦🏽♀️
@@catmaxwell6691 who are you talking about? I’m talking about the hypothetical son from the op comment
They neglected to get him help, and got him an illegal gun. Darn right they're complicit.
The parents needed help😎
@@awilliams4957 they gonna get all the help they need
The gun wasn’t illegal.
@@halfirish8056 He wasn't able to get it legally. What do you call that?
@@halfirish8056It was illegal for a minor to possess or use it. It was illegal for anyone to commit murder with it.
Daily reminder: Crumbley parents are NOT on trial for the crimes committed by their son. They are on trial for the CRIMES and negligence THEY perpetrated that led directly to their son’s murders of 4 people.
1) It is illegal to buy a handgun for a minor.
2) They failed to lock the gun away (as required).
3) They did that knowing that their son was violent/destructive at home, mentally unstable, and abusing alcohol.
4) Their son could NOT have murdered his classmates in the way that he did without the criminal AND negligent choices of his parents. They LITERALLY put the weapon in his hands.
5) After the murders, the parents emptied their bank accounts and attempted to flee from law enforcement.
These parents deserve the charges and the convictions.
Agree. Very well said.
Exactly. So sad.
Así es!! Muy bien dicho!!
There are teachers there who testified that they saw his behavior. They saw his in school drawings. They saw him watching shooting videos on his phone and they called nobody. Does this open up a portal charging them or on some level holding them accountable at the minimum having school policies changed, or nothing will come from this. I think this is a very dangerous precedent and again my heart goes out to the parents who lost children in such a needless matter. I don’t like guns, but I. Three. Handguns in my home everyone knows exactly how to use them, and everyone knows the moment in which that gun is to be removed from the safe and brought to a situation. We don’t carry guns. They’re only for personal protection while we were inside of our house.
Facts!
It's about time. We need to start holding parents accountable in situations like this.
No, we don’t.
In cases like this where it's easily proven that they could and should have done something, then yes they need to be held accountable. But in many cases the parents are just as blindsided when their child causes a school shooting as everyone else. In those cases then they don't deserve to be prosecuted.
A precedent has been set. All parents beware. In this case, the parents are responsible. But now, in any case, the parents will be responsible. In this case the parents should be charged. The problem is, DAs will run with this.
PARENTS BE AWARE WHAT THIS CASE HAS DONE😮😮😮
its all bad till the guilty person is you or someone you love dont talk like this if you havent lived your whole life you never know
Not only did they refuse him help but they laughed at him? LAUGHED? That poor kid was screaming for help. Unfriggin believable. 😢😢😢
Rumor and never proven in court. The only thing proven is it was him talking to his friend about it. I doubt the judge gives her any time and may even throw it out. Ineffective counsel is what’s going to reverse the decision.
@@dudemorris7769did you watch the video? She didn't deny she laughed at him.
What do you mean rumour? She admitted to it. Also, by your logic, you can also decide to argue the kid saying he needs help with his mental health is a rumour and never proven in court...@@dudemorris7769
@@dudemorris7769 -- Incorrect. Forensic evidence from devices like phones and computers showed that Ethan texted his mother on more than one occasion when he was having hallucinations, clearly frightened. But she couldn't be bothered to leave her horses and come home. There were also texts or Facebook messages between the parents where they contemplated dosing him with Xanax (prescribed for one of the parents, not for Ethan) because of the hallucinations. And at one point not too long before the shooting, they locked him out of the house overnight because of the hallucinations.
Both parents absolutely knew something was wrong, but didn't bother taking him in for a psychiatric evaluation. That includes the day of the shooting, when the school told them he needed a psych eval ASAP.
@@dudemorris7769NOT rumor. It was in the text messages. Stop defending the indefensible.
I understand the slippery slope argument, but it's bonkers that even with hindsight, this person said they wouldn't have done anything differently? That's a shocking lack of care for their son, let alone the victims.
Until I heard the full summary, I would have ascribed this purely to defense strategy. (Ie "We didn't do anything wrong, we were just unfortunate that it turned out that way.")
But it seems clear that aside from legal strategy concerns, it was also the simple truth; her opinions on how parents should handle such things haven't changed, and she refuses any responsibility for her bad judgement or the consequences.
@@bernardkung7306 SELF SERVING didn’t pay off this time did it crumb-bag!
@@ZeldaZelda-RichesToRags I completely concur with you
The parents were sane enough to be on trial (I don't know if it was tested) but you have people with notions about how to parent or handle situations- that considere criminal or questionable.
What slippery slope argument is there to be made here.
Parents are a 1000% responsible for their children baring they don't legally emancipated them selfs from them.
There is no legal or moral argument to be made period.
Too many parents in today's society want to be their child's friend, not parents. You can be both, but parenting must come first and take priority.
In the same vein, parents need to be loving and not dismissive or abusive. When your child makes a mistake, don't flip out, when your child asks for help, ask what they need, and when they want to talk, don't ignore them.
With so many Adults Not understanding What a Friend Is, & that there’s Expectations, Boundaries, & Consequences IN friendships, it’s a word that Shouldn’t even be in the same sentence with “parent(s)”…at least Not until the child(ren) adults!!! I have yet to meet a Parent trying to Parent as a Friend, producing a Good Result, much Less a Great or Excellent Result-it’s the Escape word for someone who Doesn’t want their child to dislike or hate them, & Doesn’t want to be the one who Has to say “No!”, which we’re seeing on a Massive scale, how well That’s failed these up & coming Participation Trophy Holders. Parenting is a JOB, a Very Serious JOB, & these “parents” Failed Miserably in that Job, as well as Failed Miserably in “Friendship”. Top it with 4 children DEAD + the Injured, & all that are affected for life, her Son Begging for help, the school Telling her he needs help, AND her sitting through a 2 week trial in handcuffs & chains-She can’t/Refuses to see her errors in Either!!! She didn’t want the inconvenience of Having to take him to counseling, nor did she want to admit it, or let Anyone IN who’d Obviously be Critical of her, along with Having to Pay for it. SHE ran that family, & she had No business running it!!! The Father? PW’ed.
Your child’s first gun beyond water & cap guns, is Usually a BB gun,& when older, you get a Hunting Rifle, & go hunting in order to Feed yourselves-you Don’t buy hand guns for target practice on paper people, AND nowadays you Lock them up, until you Know your child can handle the responsibility, that goes with a gun, which this boy had No idea of. It’s Not the gun’s fault either!!! I remember plenty of trucks with shotguns mounted in gun racks, in Unlocked trucks on school property, & NOT ONE CHILD WAS EVER SHOT IN SCHOOL.
you can be their friend..when they've matured enough. Not before.
💯Agree... Growing up my son was a typical teenager and did dumb stuff, but so did I as a kid... I think the whole idea of being your child's mate is the fact the whole world is sooooo PC nowadays it's not funny, I mean I grew up in the 70's and you got the belt or the wooden spoon if you disrespected your parents, and of course it was more common to hide being abused, as I know from experience... But the one thing I did was when I found out I was pregnant my mindset had to change and I had to be the one to break the cycle in my family... So instead teaching my son about love coming with criteria I chose to show, give freely my love to him, starts with taking responsibility, Ethans parents let him down so definitely deserve to be locked up
My mom's neither a friend nor a parent
As a mother myself ,it's common sense if your child is coming to you saying they need help. You definitely don't buy them a gun. SMMFH 😢
Dad bought gun without Mom's presence or permission.
@@steppenwolf3252
Then Mom took him to gun range with said gun…what is your point?
@steppenwolf3252 Mom put it easily, taken it away if she was worried !!!
Good. My parents had repercussions when I was driving their car at 12 years old. Parents should be held responsible and accountable for their children 😮😢
YES & NO
She destroyed a child who could have been salvaged and caused execution of innocent children.
Poor all.
listen to your kids, people ffs
I haven’t seen a case where the parents were so uncaring about their son’s needs. They just ignored everything he told or said to them. So uninvolved in everything about him. They never cared to know their own child.
The parents should be charged and found guilty. They knew there were issues. Their child killed others. They gave him a gun! They have as many issues as he does!😮
Thank you for saying "child" and not "kid", the word that seems mandatory nowadays 🤢🤢🤢
@@MargaritaMagdalenawhat's the difference?
@@scdua baby goat is called a Kid, just like a baby kangaroo is called a Joey. Have a great one!
It’s about time a parent is accountable for the kids actions !!!! It was so obvious!!!!!
No it wasn’t
You need a License to Drive a Car
You need a License to Fish
You need a License to own a Dog
but anyone can have a kid...
Wasn't that from Parenthood?
Yes! Baby Keanu Reeves, good catch. that scene has never left my head@@christophermerlot3366
Isn't that the truth!
And no one has written a reliable handbook.
Ya and then a license to think right? Bad idea.. dumb people can be great parents btw
"This case sets a dangerous precedent." Really? That parents should be responsible for their minor child?!
Watch the trial. They were made aware, repeatedly, that he was in trouble. How did they handle it? They got him a gun, and taught him how to use it! Seriously???
@@ladyliberty5771I think you two agree. :)
just watch the legal system make you responsible for everything
@vegito8502 If you watched, you'd understand WHY these parents are culpable. I have a child who was victimized. The LAST thing I'd do is put a weapon in their hand! My responsibility was to get them the help, medically and mentally, that they needed. That boy was SCREAMING out for help, and the 2 people he should have been able to count on to get him that help, let him down.
It's NOT a "dangerous precedent"... it was a responsibility on their part.
I know! It's a rediculous statement. But it goes to show that there are people - even in the media who don't have and don't practice common sense. Parenting is all of ART, SKILL, SCIENCE. Very few people are REMBRANT, ARMSTRONG AND EINSTEIN. But they still think they can be a parent.
The case sets a precedent to show other parents that they need to watch over their children and not allow them access to guns.
Access to guns is not the problem!
WHO has access is one of the problems!
Guns are not the problem!
Mental Health was the problem and Guns was the wrong solution.
In the Crumbley's case, "Watching Over their child was a part of the problem but HAVING a child in the first place was the first problem. That should have never happened.
@@WYO_Cowboy_Joe no child in high school should have a gun but these crazy parents bought him one. The only country that deals with mass shootings as an epidemic is the USA so guns are the problem.
@@WYO_Cowboy_Joe that's exactly what the comment you replied to said. Parents shouldn't allow their kids access to guns. Do you have a problem with that?
@@WYO_Cowboy_Joenope access to guns is like 99.9% of the problem. Not mental health. It’s the guns 👏 , it’s the guns 👏 it’s the guns 👏.
@@WYO_Cowboy_Joetf you on about, ofc it is access to guns, a child should not have access to a gun.
Jennifer says that Ethan was joking when he talked about demons and the house being haunted. She said he sent a video to show her that doors were slamming on their own but she could see it was actually him doing it. These are her reasons for not taking it seriously, apparently. Even if she didn't believe that Ethan was hallucinating, if she thought he was making it all up, does that not STILL concern you as a mother?? Whether he is seeing things or lying that he is seeing things, there is obviously something going on with him that needs addressing.
Right like even if he's lying that's just as concerning
Had they only put the money they invested in the gun and shooting lessons into counselling for the son they knew was struggling mentally, four kids would still be alive, and an entire family wouldn’t be going to prison.
Seems the parents also were not responsible enough to have a gun.
This was a very obvious case of neglect. I do not think it is the first step of a slippery slope. These parents did not care at all no matter how loudly their son cried out for help. She paid more attention to her horse's medical problem.
The slippery slope argument was specious. That defense attorney is a liar. She knows better, but wanted to win, no matter how dirty the tricks needed. Our legal system has massive issues.
I don't think a parent can be held responsible for something that was unseeable by that parent. But this case was clear and very foreseeable that THAT kid had problems and the right call was to hold the parents accountable.
It was obvious the parents were in absolute denial. I mean, who would give a mentally unstable youth, a gun!? This is horrible
Wrong. The law says that to find her guilty, the shooting was foreseeable. Clearly it wasn't bc the school sent him back to class.
The only argument that could be made where the parent would not forsee their child committing such a crime is if the kid was a phycopath and some how no one noticed outside of that there really isn't an argument to be made.
It be pretty hard to prove unforseen insanity/mental break as well tbh.
Nah they knew he had issues and i believe they may have played a part in helping his problems creating a comfortable environment to grow like yeast in their home.@@TruthOnly24
Precisely. The courts will hold you to account, if you have knowledge and means to prevent your child from doing harm, but refuse to. I don't believe this is the first time someone's been convicted of letting someone have access to gun they weren't legally allowed, either.
Wow that’s all so crazy
You have a son with mental health issues who hears voices and you go out and get him a gun? 🤦🏽♀️
Poor boy deserved help which he clearly didn’t get from his parents
Gun Rights Activists & Parents Rights Activists are NOT Responsible Gun Owners. Period.
Why don't the Responsible Gun Owners See This?
Sad that she said she thought he was depressed and her thought when hearing about the shooting was that he would shoot himself. It may be me but I thought maybe that was their way of unburdening themselves with Ethan - to get him a gun and he may off himself. In assessing suicide/homicide risk as a clinician the question is do the person wants to harm themselves or others. The second question is whether they have a plan to carry out the suicide/homicide, what is the plan, place the person in a safe place under constant watch, refer to mental health, and go by the professional's recommendations. These parents were in no position to conclude if help was needed or not. They omitted facts from the school. After the shootings, they only projected blame on everyone. It is forgotten that 7 other children were injured/scarred for life.
I don't know but the voices were supposed to be a j0ke about the 100 year old house they'd just moved into.
@@janmurr8447 thats actually what I thought too, I almost felt like they weren't too worried if he did something to himself. It's like Ethan was a third wheel to the parents relationship.
Wait so they took him to a shooting range, feels like they literally helped him plan everything
But they didn’t… just because you “feel like” it is, doesn’t make it so. Where do we draw the line? Is bad parenting an indictable offence? I get it, for us looking at this in hindsight, she should have seen this coming. Indeed, probably most of us would have responded differently and stepped in and said “not a chance, kid”. But she didn’t, and I’m just not convinced that alone is worthy of a crime.
His dad wanted to teach him gun safety. I'm against guns but there's millions of Americans out there who LOVE their "2nd Amendment" rights.
If your son under your care used a weapon you gave them to commit mass murder I would say yes it's so bad it should be criminal@@ItsMarkBaby
@@user-qs2by5if5r what counts as a weapon? Steak knife set? Baseball bat? Bow & arrow set? Anything can be used as a weapon. I would hate to think I could be held responsible because my son murdered someone with the waffle iron I gave him.
@@steppenwolf3252 he wouldn't need to learn gun safety if his parents didn't buy him a gun instead of paying for therapy
You can say it was only for the range. But then dont remove access while not at the range . You can't really say it was only for the range.
School was in their range
They did remove access. It was in a hidden locked gun safe and they hid the bullets somewhere else. He found both.
So she should! She and the Dad were told on numerous occasions about their son's mental health, gave him shooting lessons, ignored all the warning signs, etc. When he was younger, they left him alone in the house and neighbours reported them for negligence (I read this in another news report) and they were unfit parents. They both encouraged gun shooting on the kid and didn't care for his well being or the safety of the students even though staff informed them. The mom is the first parent in American history to be held accountable, charged and incarcerated for a child's actions. The father's trail is next month. It's about time! Hopefully this, too, will follow suit in the other states and in Canada!!!
Don't count on this happening more frequently and successfully. She will appeal. She is unlikely to serve more than five more years if she gets seven.
There are so many people with disturbed children out there. 😢
Many more jails would have to be built to house parents. This won't happen though.
It's difficult to get immediate help for a child, short of taking them to the hospital. And what if the parents have their own mental health, financial, and substance abuse problems? Where do you draw the line?
So if your kid is sexting and has prom on his phone. You should go to prison cause you bought the phone, pay the plan and you gave birth to him. This is bullshit
Yes. You yourself pointed out the potential risks and yet say nothing about offsetting those risks or taking responsibility if those risks become reality. Now that's bullsh1t!
Or his trial... didn't Dad gift him the gun?
@@oliviashuii364
Y'all Freedum Fighters/School Board Terrorists scream about Parents Rights!
What about Parents Responsibilities?
Conservatives always say parents have the say so they should also have the responsibility so this was the right call.
Her attitude on the stand says it all. She didn't give a rats a** about her kid, what he did or the devastation it caused.
Exactly
Don’t have a child if you can’t parent appropriately!!! Or go to JAIL !!!
I find it interesting that the same people who are crying about a “slippery slope” when it comes to being held responsible for this kind of negligent parenting, are the same ones who are fighting for parental rights in deciding “what’s right for MY kid”.
So are you responsible for your kids or not?
❤
Why buy a gun for a kid who is crying for help? The parents need mental healthcare as well!!!! It is a slippery slope.
Anyone who thinks the parents are anything but guilty, they're just as out of their minds as Ethan Crumbley.
Mental health is real. Parents need to listen to save lives.
Exactly, according to son they told him to “suck it up”. If you said this to your child and he/she commits a crime then you have every right to be charged too.
The prosecution seems to want it both ways. They accuse the mother of not recognizing the signs of mental illness yet the courts didn't consider that in ethan's trial. He was evaluated and then withdrew his insanity defense and plead guilty, and he got the life sentence. So which do the courts actually believe? he was mentally ill and in need of help, or he's sane?
@@smirky101 You answered your own question. Ethan withdrew his mental health defense, and plead guilty instead. That decision wasn't up to the prosecution, and the court wasn't left with another option.
@@smirky101 He told her repeatedly he needed help. She didn't need to look for signs. If someone tells you they need help that's all the sign she needed. She repeatedly refused. Mental illness isn't a defense legally or otherwise for murder. If he can determine right from wrong he's responsible. The psychologists determined he was capable of that. The prosecution does not want it both ways. They want parents to be responsible, insofar as possible, for the mental welfare of their children. Giving a depressed teenager access to a gun is completely shirking her responsibility as a parent especially after he repeatedly begged her for counseling.
@@jeanniepiller3421 as much as a an emotional jury wants to draw a connection between negligence and culpability, nobody can say that the mother ever believed her son was going to commit a criminal act. I think it's a totally misguided attempt to respond to school shootings by prosecuting parents after the us government totally failed at any measure of gun control An appeals court is going to see right through this conviction.
It’s about damn time long overdue for parents to be held accountable
Something that hasn't been mentioned is that the lad got life with no prospect of parole after pleading guilty for the shootings.
He clearly has serious mental health problems, and I'm surprised at the decision.
The parents were not merely negligent but criminally irresponsible.
You can't always know what your kids are up to, but when they tell you they are suffering and the school makes known their concerns, you should at least put 2 and 2 together and not allow your child to have access to a gun, and don't buy them one ffs.
This situation played out like the 1992 song Jeremy by Pearl Jam.
"At home drawing pictures"
"Daddy didn't give attention"
"Oh, to the fact that mommy didn't care"
"Daddy didn't give affection, no"
"And the dead lay in pools of maroon below"
"Jeremy spoke in class today"
I went to school with Jeremy. He was in counseling.
I can’t believe some people thinks she should not go to jail????
The school told them something was wrong with the kid and he needed professional help
Instead of listening to them she goes and buy a gun for him
WTH!!!!
Monster killed 4 children with the gun that she bought him!!!!
Despicable human being
I'm not one of those people who thinks parents are responsible for everything their children do, but this is so clear cut. Their kid ASKED THEM FOR HELP! Multiple times! And if they didn't know how serious it was before, the meeting with the school showed them. And not only did they ignore their son's problems, but directly gave him the tools to do what he did.
This is such a clear case of neglect and irresponsibility. I hope the families and surviving victims find peace, and I hope the young kid can get help and get on a better track in life.
Those parents are just average american parents. I've seen far greater neglect and the kids don't go un-aliving anyone.
Their son pleaded guilty and was sentenced to life in prison.
@@chickenlover657 I'm not saying the kid is innocent. I had a rough childhood and never hurt anyone. I can't imagine doing what he did. But there were clearly steps that his parents could've taken to stop this from happening. (Getting him psychological help and not buying him a gun)
Is the son responsible for his actions? Yes. And he is going to prison for what he did. Do I think this could have been prevented if his parents paid attention? Also yes.
@@_wheelofcheese Do you see my last comment? I think YT is deleting my comments because they don't suit the narrative.
This goes beyond gross negligence. Supplying a shooter with a gun sounds to me like she was an accomplice to murder.
I have major depression, social anxiety, PTSD, I am 58 and at 16 I went to my parents to tell them my problems. They laugh at me. I went to my counselor and my basketball coach and they got me the help I needed. When you have mental illness then unfortunately you loose all family and friends because of the stigma. Would it help with the killer. I still think if the parents stepped up to the plate when he asked for help it could have stopped it. They are just as guilty
No, mate, it's not manslaughter to not take your kid seriously. It's lousy parenting, but it ain't manslaughter by any stretch of the imagination.
That is your opinion@@chickenlover657
@@chickenlover657
Yes it is. The Michigan court of appeals ruled that the charges stand. The Michigan Supreme Court refused to intervene. They were rightfully charged.
@@Angelsbobbi So your argument is that just cuz some clown court ruled it's all good? Do you know how many innocent people are rotting in jail? Go look at some stats.
In your case you asked other adults for help. All the adults failed this kid
The man who committed the mass shooting at the Kentucky bank- his parents knew he was struggling and they have record of getting him help and took accountability for their part and their sons and apologized to the families. Even though that man was not a minor it still shows that his parents took accountability and still tried to get their son help.
Can parents be held responsible for everything their children do.
Yes, it's not even a reasonable question, until they become adults parents are a 1000% responsible for their kids.
And the ones that complain that they can't possibly be 100% responsible are probably horrible parents.
Excellent. Parents must take responsibility for their kids.
No more 2nd Amendment rights for parents! Yay!
@@steppenwolf3252Good
What about the father?
His trail is coming up! He is on the same charges as the mother.
Correction please: Up to 15 years for each of the 4 guilty verdicts … unlike in Canada, could possibly be served consecutively, for a total of 60 years.
That is good to hear! I thought 15yrs was low
First time offender a novel case. She won't get anywhere near that.
@@RichardBaran Yes, I agree with you. I was only pointing out the maximum sentence. 😊
Dude this is so sad, he even asked for help and they laughed at him. His own parents! I just feel terrible for all of the victims and their families and it's even sad for the shooter. This was the most preventable thing in the world! It is infuriating.
His parents BOUGHT THEIR SON A GUN! Knowing goddam well WHAT HE WAS GOING TO DO WITH IT!!!!
His "parents" -- instead of being shocked and rushing to the school--- ENABLED HIM every step of the way! They may as well have pulled the TRIGGER THEMSELVES!!!
When she texted him and said he needs to learn to not get caught was a clear sign of her enabling. She never saw the danger of her erroneous guidance.
No more 2nd Amendment rights for parents!
Why dont the rich get thesame verdict?
She's still only going to get a few years. Court TV's saying 5-7 yrs. She deserves way longer. She started leaving her son alone overnight when he was only 6 yrs old. No wonder the child was terrified and started seeing demons. No excuse for what he did but if not for his abusive parents he may never have done it.
Your English is very clear and articulated. Easy to understand, many thanks from Japan.
The charge wasn't _murder_ , it was _criminal negligence_ .
And despite my initial skepticism, I'd say the prosecution presented an air-tight case.
That poor kid 😢
Absolutely yes more parents/guardians should be held accountable!!!
Only in America do parent gift guns to their children …
Sad isn’t it? Then when the child does something horrible with the deadly weapon they say they had no idea something like this could happen. SMH
I hate that the verdict may be overturned due to the inept representation she had in her lawyer. I've never seen anything like her.
I truly Hope this will make change ! Parent need to be accountable for their raising of their child ! It’s about time .
I Wish the law could look at Kyle Rittenhouses mother.
Dylan Roofs parent(s)/community.
The guy that mowed down counter Protesters and Killed Heather Hyer at the 2017 Tiki Torch March where the Neo-Nazis were chanting JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US.
Funny how those same militia types support I$reals Massacre in Gaza.
Of course you are not aware of all the things your kid is capable of but if your kid has mental health issues, does it sound reasonable to buy him a gun as a Christmas present?! 🤦♂️
The parents wouldn't be in trouble if they had: Not buy him a gun or leave the gun within his reach or checked his back pack or taken the kid home but they missed every chance to stop the shooting! 😒
I watched the trial. The defendant’s lawyer was immensely incapable, too.
And the mother of the decade award goes to... 😒
If there is any case where the parents should be held responsible for the actions of their child in terms of school shootings, this was it. Totally unfathomable and shocking how many missed opportunities occurred that could have prevented this kid from carrying out these murders. The parents not only failed to look out for their son and his peers with their actions, they basically encouraged it. Totally irresponsible. Sentence totally warranted.
America is now terrifying 😱🇺🇲
If she doesn’t think there is anything wrong with buying a hormonal kid a gun, and wouldn’t do anything differently, she obviously doesn’t care about those deaths, and her son turned out just like her. She must be so proud!
The main problem is that she didn’t love her son period! If she would have ever shown him affection at all… he wouldn’t have ended up like that!
Either they were negligent or there is something more sinister afoot. I'm not saying they *knew* he was planning something sinister but that "don't get caught" message she wrote him always seemed kind of fishy.
She explained that in her testimony. This narrator got a lot wrong.
@@auggiedoggiesmommy1734
There is no reasonable explanation for a parent saying that to their child in that situation.
Kid: Mom I see Demons.
Mom: Suck it up kid here is a gun 🤦🏻♂️
They gave a gun to the kid
that sees '' people'' ... wow!
I followed the trial, and this woman has histrionic behaviour. She was just interested in his son as a way to converse with people. I bought horses to spend time with my son. We gifted him a gun for Christmas… in November? I saw their house. She claimed she was embarrassed how unorganized it was, yet it had a Christmas tree. Either they never took it out or they set it up too early. My point is, she only put her money on things she can show off on social media, yet won’t invest on hiring a cleaning lady to maintain the house.
Also, she claimed she felt isolated. But she’s in constant contact with her dad esp during summer. He is a retired teacher. She was on Adderal for ADHD; she must be being followed by a psychiatrist. She doesn’t bring out the “jokes” or his pleas? She showed the drawings to her colleagues and the barn owner, but she said she never really look at them?
So yes, this woman made time to have an extramarital affair, while ignoring her son and her house. She’s definitely not well mentally, but she was highly functional to keep a job and maintain hobbies.
She’s guilty and it’s about time that parents are accountable to the crimes of their children especially if they’re minors.
If anything they could have had him on a 72 hour hold not that hard. They just seemingly couldnt be bothered.
I’m glad the parent(s) are and were held responsible. This is so infuriating! Callous!
That Defense Lawyer what a joke.
It’s sad when a child is crying out for help and everyone can see it except for the people who can most help.
im never having kids.
It's fine to make that decision for whatever reason(s) you wish (and to change it later, if you feel differently). I'm *child-free by choice* -- which is better than saying _"childless,"_ as if it's a bad or sad thing - and have been so since I decided at around 16 that I didn't want to get married or have children. I'm a happy and fulfilled 63-year-old woman and still have no regrets about my decision. My 58-YO brother is also single/never married and child-free, though our 2 sisters have 2 adult children each.
I understand and agree. It's a choice that one can make early in life and always change their mind later. BUT once you have a child you can never go back. You're a parent for the rest of your life. So many don't seem to understand that simple concept.
I used to say I was so glad I wasn't a parent and my friends (who had children) would say: _"but if you had a child, you'd change your mind."_ And I'd say: _"but if I have a child, I can never change my mind"_ ....and they still didn't get it and wanted to keep the argument going to prove their point or they were right and I was wrong somehow.
Wonderful precedent case! There were red flags galore. These parents had the opportunity to intervene many times, but failed to act. They both lack the barest modicum of common sense.
I am so glad that this case created a precedent , and a warning for parents.
Yup, it will set a dangerous precedents for other parents who allow their child access to guns. I hope this makes some aware they could and would be charged. These parents are despicable but there are many just like them. Boebert's little lads for instance. This gun culture madness must surely be coming to an end...before a lot more kids do
'These People' are NOT Responsible Gun Owners.
The Gun rights activists keep yapping about
"You Can't Take Away OUR Rights" but refuse to 'police' their own community that degrades these so called 'rights'.
That includes LE who won't Enforce the Existing Laws.
Dangerous for who? If these kids don't do anything wrong, what's the harm? If they do - parents are to blame if it was their gun. Obvious. To anyone outside the US.
Her attitude is so 'checked out' emotionally. She seems to be empathy impaired ... just very SELFISH and self focused, like Ethan is someone else's concern or responsibility. Sad for Ethan too, as well as these children who so tragically lost their lives 😢😢😢
"lol dont get caught" = "my sweet boy would NEVER"
With parents like that, it's no wonder the son turned out like that.
Normally parents shouldn't be held accountable... But she was absolutely responsible. She was called to the school the day of the shooting for violent images that her son was drawing. She didn't think to mention to the school that he had access to a gun? She didn't think to take him home? She is just as guilty.
When we see cases of child neglect we normally only see the parents held accountable when their children are harmed. This is a case of neglect but also parents who seemingly groom their son to become a killer and ignoring red flags. By setting the president that parents will be charged, this may be the only way to stop them by either working with the schools/police or even giving up parental rights if they are incapable of doing their duty as parents. The idea of these parents setting so much in motion but deny all accountability is shocking. I'm glad she is charged.
Yes, and the father is charged, too. Let's hope he faces the same scrutiny and outcome at trial.
PS - The word you want is *"precedent"* in this case, _not_ "president."
What an intelligent report. Thank you.
Agree. Very well done. Nice to see actual journalism these days.
Parents need to do better. Related duties are lifelong
Canada: Parental responsibilities, no parental rights. Crazy.
I think if they didn't have that parents meeting the day of the shooting, there would be no conviction. But they were both warned about the possibility of this. The kid tried taking to them. It is a tough one, but I feel the jury got it right. I'm very curious about what her sentence will be.
I think you're right. The parents not checking the backpack themselves, or even telling officials they had just recently bought a gun for him, did them in. They essentially had a legal duty to exercise reasonable care to avoid a situation where other's lives would be at risk once they were confronted with that drawing.
Uhm- why didn’t the school call the cops?!
Why is no one bringing up the point that the school councilor, principal, teachers, vice principal NOT ONE OF THEM bothered to search his backpack or require him to leave school that day. If the parents are guilty so are every one of the school officials. Kids don’t have rights in school. You search them if you have a concern
That’s an interesting question.With the parents there the administration would have hesitated looking into the backpack. They definitely should have checked the backpack and as a parent or staff member in the building it really troubling that they didn’t. Apparently, his school principal heard a popping and ran into the hallway about ten minutes after he left her office.The principal saw the shooter walking down the hallway right past her but he never posed a threat to her.
His target was the students in the building.He could have easily shot the principal but chose not to. It’s difficult to comprehend what was going on in his mind at that very moment.
I agree the school should have done more but parents are the ones who make the decisions frequently and school administrators won’t confront them or hold them responsible for dealing with their children.
Schools usually have policies in place that they can't search private property without reason. Lockers sure, but not backpacks. If the parents said "hey that drawing looks like the gun we just bought him," they would have a reason to search, but the parents were silent, refused to take him home and they couldn't send him home alone.
The appeals will either cement the precedent or shatter it. It's not set until after all the appeals are done.
maybe IF we stop having kids, it would solve a lot of things...Does that means that every time a teen will do something bad, the parents will be automatically incarcerated ? this is a very dangerous decision.
I was watching a doco and the 'auto play' s after, just yesterday. There were a couple of cases of spree killers who had been forbidden to possess firearms. A friend or family member claimed the weapons from Police, then within months the family member returned one or more of the guns, and people died at the wrong end of that firearm.
In 2 of the cases, the person who returned the gun to the to be shooter, were charged. Not with involuntary manslaughter, but spent 3yrs incarcerated for their part.
These parents absolutely 100% are responsible for these deaths! People, including the child himself were trying to get him help, and the parents absolutely blocked it, then personally armed him!
Then they insisted that he was perfectly healthy and everyone was telling tales out of school about him being unwell, and THAT was the problem. The people picking on him telling him he was sick is why he did it. Not because they bought a healthy child a gun and taught him how to use it.
When’s his father’s trial?
If your child tells you they need help what you do is you have your child what she did is disgusting
The good news is that parents have one less thing to worry about when they secure the gun they gift their child. The question of Ethans mental status started with the fact that he is an adolescent, not an adult, and thereby supervision and guidance are imperatives. Locking up the gun would have saved other lives, and listening, helping, might have saved Ethan from the life he lives now.
Crazy the solution to the parents son's mental health concerns was to brush it off and train him how to use a gun and now they're really wondering why they're being charged with manslaughter
Too many guns in America glad I don't live there in that gun culture,but holding the parents responsible is a step in the right direction,stop buying your kids guns!!!!!!
Many guns and minors with guns here in Alberta. (I used to be a minor that went hunting with dad). Whatever we are doing in Alberta here is working apparently.
Kids should not have Guns,my brothere was killed2015 in Northern alberta@@josephklein7921
@@josephklein7921
You probably didn’t use a semi automatic handgun or assault rifle to hunt with I’m guessing. These parents aren’t buying their kids hunting guns. They’re buying them weapons of war. They just pretend that there isn’t any difference.
There are times when parents do their best, but this wasn't one of those times. The evidence shows that the parents turned a blind eye to their son's issues and in fact exasperated them with their actions and treatment of him when he approached him.
Parents will be under more scrutiny, but, if they are doing their jobs, then charges won't be brought. This ruling is for people like the mother of a 12-year-old who watched her son go out with an imitation gun and he ended up dead because he aimed it at police.
Instead of pretending their kids can do no wrong and abusing the people who catch them, parents need to start disciplining their kids for doing wrong.