When things went sideways, "Power back to idle to reduce rate of descent. Roll wings level using Artificial horizon; pull HARD; hope;; trim as speed bleeds off as you rocket skyward." The CRUX of the problem is that in a spiral dive pulling back on the stick only tightens the turn and increases speed. It is terrifying! You MUST not give up. Happened to me. Changed my life being seconds from death and no one to help. I did not know how brave I was. CAVU skies, all!
Vertigo in weather can happen to anyone. While flying in a RF-4 with a SR-71 high time frontseater, we were weather recalled and first to launch, in IFR soup, so we were last to land. Stacked up in holding pattern for ILS landing, while on the racetrack, the pilot gave me the aircraft, because he had vertigo so bad that his lunch was now in the cockpit. Navs are not supposed to land aircraft.
Good thing you were on top of things, and you must have been, because it must suck having the pilot do that to his nav/back seater in the soup like that. I knew a COAST Guard Rescue Helicopter pilot who told me one time after being in the weather his co-pilot at some point told him he was glad he knew where he was because he was lost! The pilot told him man if you EVER think you're lost you'd better speak up right now because what if something happens to the pilot, then everyone on board is lost because you were too embarrassed to speak up!
After I got my instrument ticket, I filed IFR for pretty much every cross country flight I made no matter the weather. The main reason was that it kept me proficient flying in the system, kept my communication skills honed and, should unforecast weather arise, I didn’t need to worry about picking up a clearance on the fly. All I had to do was study the approach and prepare to fly it. Many thought I was crazy filing IFR on a severe clear day, but I just found it easy to do so and I felt it was an easy risk reduction thing to do.
I agree and I’m with you 100% and that’s exactly what I do for the most part as well. In some respects filing an IFR flight plan is just as easy as VFR flight following if not easier because you’re always under radar control and air traffic control pretty much cleared the way for you so in a sense it’s less work. I just recently did a cross country flight from Kansas to Florida and the weather closed in which I already knew but I was under an IFR flight plan and ended up doing an ILS into Orlando Airport.
@@gmccord1970 I agree that if often is easier. I have a heck of a time figuring out all of the controlled airspace and MOAs and RAs and such for a VFR cross country. IFR you are always talking to controllers who know the area they are controlling and the airspace and which areas are active or not.
Right! Play in the system everyday if you can...cuts way down on the anxiety when weather's tight and in class B space big airports...one's sees what's going on and is ready for any changes for most part keeping up with the current program insight!!
You are a true gift to aviation education. No other way to put it. I'd just about guarantee that the discussion on saturation during rapid transition from VFR to IMC will save a few lives.
After I got my instrument rating, I was never tempted to not file IFR if the weather was even a bit "iffy", much less for weather like this. So to me, this very experienced pilot forgot why he had an instrument rating in the first place. Re why he forgot (or whatever you want to call it), I have no idea and I assume we'll never know. is there a moral here? Of course. It's use the instrument rating you have.
"Luck bag" - great phrase! In sailing, especially in bad weather, some will use the analogy of a "bank" - every time one does maintenance, preparation or additional service, you put one "coin" the bank. Every time you run into some unexpected negative situation you take one coin (or more) out of the bank. When your bank runs dry, bad things happen! LOVE your vids! Now age 74... grew up in a Stinson 108 Station Wagon and Piper Tri-Pacer / now just a passenger in my son's P28R Arrow. Thanks loads!!!
Wishful thinking leads to depending on luck for intended results. I would say fly, work, and live intentionally and leave wishful thinking to the bold pilots. thanks Scott, great video.
Great presentation, as always. My introduction to spacial disorientation came by flying over Lake Michigan on a cloudless and moonless night. Once the lights of the shoreline were gone from my view, my instructor had me close my eyes for a few moments while he made a couple of minor attitude changes, then had me take back the aircraft. Spot-on, the inner ear to brain connection is strong. I learned that night that is imperative to train oneself to focus on, and believe the instruments.
"not many DME arc approaches" an airport near me, KWVI, still has one. My IFR instructor makes me fly it for practice, but I would never fly it in actual.
Scary stuff. I just got my instrument rating and remember when I did my first circle to land. My instructor basically did a lot of the call outs and when it was time to go missed, it was a climbing turn to the left. I could feel that my senses were all out of whack. I said I don’t feel like I have control of the aircraft. Lucky for me everything was fine but I learned just how disorienting you can get when flying by instruments.
There is a saying in several fields that proficiency leads to complacency, and that's when accident rates climb to the same heights as newbies. Having lots of hours and experience can be a mixed blessing.
Thanks Scott for taking the time to pay it forward. All pilots should tell their story’s of mistakes made. Instead we tend to cover them up and talk about how how great a pilot we are. When I see I pilot with your experience talk about mistakes and experience it’s a great example of what all pilots need to do. In turn that helps us all be better! Thanks again Scott!😀🇺🇸
Man Scott, the first video of yours that I watched was your explanation of "The Day the Music Died", and I've been coming back ever since. Not that many people are as good at breaking concepts down into manageable chunks that support a clear conclusion as you are. Thanks for getting these videos out there for us to learn from.
Fantastic video Scott. Nystagmus is a real risk and might make it almost impossible to see…anything. I wonder how many of these tragedies are mainly the result of this one factor, rather than the ‘illusions’ that are usually blamed. As a physician I have wondered about this and your video brings me closer to a conviction that this is an underestimated cause. It is involuntary, and impossible to control, or correct through any action we can take. It is likely only preventable through the ‘slow and deliberate’ transition you discussed so brilliantly. BTW My friend and I (Basie and me Magnus); met you next to our campsite in the vintage Bonanza camp area at Oshkosh).
Well done, Scott. The detailed explanation from your own experience, particularly the inability to settle your focus on the tiny world offered by the panel, is something that I think anyone getting an instrument rating should become familiar with--to understand how a grasp of the device we have been trained to fly to can be beyond our capabilities in the wrong circumstances. On the controller side, especially when there was more GA training being done than there is now, it was often just a matter of time until a situation arose where it was necessary for a controller or a colleague to talk a pilot without an instrument rating down through an overcast that he/she had gotten trapped on top of. The focus was always on keeping everything as simple as possible, clearly communicating a straightforward plan, wings-level, trimmed to a comfortable speed with little or no input needed to manage pitch, eliminating aileron inputs by only gentle use of the rudder pedals to maintain the wings-level, etc. Over the course of my career, I never heard of that technique failing for anyone, though perhaps it has somewhere at some point. Even Part 121 with an experienced crew, though, keeping the totality of factors in favor of a safe outcome is sort of the converse of the classic "accident-chain" concept where factor after factor has added up to a tragic outcome when no one factor would have caused it. Deliberately being able to stay ahead of the airplane and build a chain of positive factors in the opposite direction can be crucial in being prepared with enough spare mental resources to overcome the things that can and sometimes will go wrong.
Great job Gunny. I very much agree that it is the transition that will kill you. I said that many times to pipeline pilots who would transition from 200' AGL VFR (with waiver) to IMC to escape getting into unintentional IMC. And I was very intentional that I was going to remain VFR and turn back down the pipeline right of way rather than attempt transition to IMC. The right of way, flown every week, was a known situation and staying just over the pipeline gave me knowledge of a non towered nor obstructed flight path. Yes, weather can deteriorate behind us as well. Landing on the pipeline right of way was my final go to out that I would gladly accept before climbing into IMC with absolutely no idea of the terrain and obstruction clearance between 200' AGL and unknown MOCA. Add that to the difficulty of rapid transition, as you pointed out. On a 3500 mile loop in the midwest, working up close to the weather and then laying up was a descently safe strategy, but getting down VFR was the only safe way to do that. I really didn't understand our instrument rating requirement and felt that it got good instrument pilots into trouble.
Thanks for your videos, it´s a lot of effort. Keep up the good work! Fly intentionally, good point. Got into IMC the other day, trying to return home to our VFR field, forecast was CAVOK. Coming closer, a nearby airport was reporting 1200ft ceilings and local conditions were 1000-5. Not particularly bad, but we were a few miles away at 700-5, VFR, just slightly above what´s legally possible. I had briefed my student (it was a transition, we´re both IR) what to do in case of an inadvertent IMC encounter. Still, when everything went white all of a sudden because of an unintentional climb while following a highway I was surprised for a second and could not believe it. My impulsive reaction would have been to push down the nose to regain VMC (not a good idea so close to the ground), but I stuck to that briefing, took control and climbed, against regulations. Just 30sec later we were VMC and had all the time in the world to come up with a better plan. One more thing in my experience bag...
I wonder if approach was even loaded/configured and briefed. The track looks like direct to airport. Missed is also straight out and not a turn as the pilot did. So it looks like an unstabilized VFR in IMC all around.
@@ericsd55 Maybe you should relay that to the worlds best test pilot. Hint Hint: 'Little" DMMS! The B29 calls for 30 MPH over stall for landing. Hanging on stall is for STOL.
I'm not a pilot..but I grasp the concept of spatial-disorientation, and loss of control by VFR flight into IMC. Where I am at a COMPLETE loss..is with the aviation-related electronic wizardry, nowadays; how can these seemingly senseless tragedies STILL be fairly commonplace (VFR into IMC crashes) in 2022???
When younger, I was crossing the Alleghenies to the West flying VFR. The ceiling kept coming down and while I was able to see the ground the mountains were covered with antennas that you couldn’t see. I was IFR rated but I was not in anyway current. I knew I was in trouble and made the decision to turn back while in the clouds. It worked out but I was truly shaken. Having survived I returned home to get current so I would no longer have to scud run. The other lesson I learned is that it is not worth dying just to avoid violating FARS. One is better off to break the rules and own up to a violation than die trying to be legal. The Bonanza pilot should have performed a missed approach maintaining control until he could safely make a turn to return to VMC. Compounding mistakes kills.
Great video Scott. I recently had a spacial D (night flight) experience, your description is spot on. I returned home that evening with the sobering reality of how quick it can happen, it was a few seconds of terror I’ll never forget.
One of your very best videos, Scott. The way you tied your personal experience in with the concepts that you were presenting definitely made for a "this could happen to me" impression. Thank you for your wisdom and for sharing.
I love the way you explain things so that pretty much everyone can understand. You most definitely spend a lot of time putting these together and I really do appreciate it Scott thanks 👍
Wow Scott, fantastic presentation, it was captivating and you do a great job of driving home the safety factors. Id want you for my flight instructor!! Your F-4 experience in close formation in IMC definitely gives you an amazing 1st person perspective on just how intense and scary that must have been for the pilot who was the victim in this crash. When even a skilled professional military fighter pilot, who gets tons of training and real world experience thrown at them at no expense and it can still be so tricky going into imc like that and having to instantly react and react correctly that it makes me think that the average GA pilot, even those with IFR ratings are more likely to have bigger gaps in their level of training and practice staying current that they would be very lucky to survive such a situation. It must have been incredibly tense to you at the time because even after all these years since it happened to you I can see you almost visibly reliving those moments! Those ticking seconds must have felt like hours to you, assuming since I'm not a pilot, that IFR flight requires a great degree of concentration on timing, speed, angles, rates of turn etc and so many other things all at the same time at speeds and altitudes that will kill you in seconds, it must have been extreme pressure! I'm glad it turned out do well for you, and you're doing an amazing job of trying to improve pilots chances of surviving a similar situation by educating and respectfully presenting the information in a way that is not just blaming the pilot, you were very clear this was a very experienced qualified pilot in a plane he has flown around the world, and if it can happen to him it can happen to anyone!!! Were I a pilot, I think all Mt flying would be blue Skies vfr flying and be content that by doing that I at least won't find myself in that situation, hopefully!
On a check ride VFR during initial climb, the HSI failed and began to slowly presess showing a progressively increasing angle of attack. I knew what was going on because the other instruments displayed that we were climbing at a steady 90 kts, rate of climb ect. The check pilot however showed confusion and cried out,,"what are you doing!" I explained the situation, and he calmed down, & I placed a "post it" over the offending HSI...needless to say I passed the check ride, but he did later help with an intervertant erroneous lack of needed back pressure during end portion of roll out and taxi. I never fly purely VFR, but always confirm or cross check with instruments
A good friend of mine lost his life, along with two of his friends, on a cross country night flight in an A36. He was piloting the plane on a filed flight plan. He did not have weather radar and the year was 2004. He was IFR rated. But he flew into a thunderstorm, lost control of the airplane, and spun into the ground (as witnessed). The ATC at Kansas City talked to him 11 minutes before the crash but made no mention of a storm ahead (as per the recording tape). Earlier, an ATC controller to the north had vectored him further south than originally planned for weather reasons. But this controller did not pass this information on to K.C. A court case ensued but I do not know the outcome. I do know that lawyers for the FAA contended that the crash was caused by his loss of control of the airplane.. They further denied any weather reporting responsibility.
THE definition of erratic to be sure..unbelievable numbers. Would agree with you as to the “see it NOW, don’t see it” runway presumption. It’s baffling & will be interesting (I THINK) to see the NTSB report..thanks Scott.
Your experience in rapid transition from VFR conditions to IMC is the reason why I think that eventually GA aircraft, especially single-pilot piston aircraft should have available some sort of synthetic vision on a head mounted display. Nothing fancy, just something like Google Glass. It should overlay cues to the surroundings and airspace restrictions in clear symbology, instead of being an instrument it would be more an abstraction of the flyable airspace and the aircraft's relative position to this airspace.
There have been several HUD attempts in the past few years. The best one I’ve seen is the one by MyGoFlight. Unfortunately, the owner/developer was killed last year in a Cirrus crash.
Scott - I am so glad you did this one. You may recall when you were in Illinois, for the Utube awards gathering, my son Ethan and I met you for the first time, I gave you and Juan Brown information on this crash. It happened in my home town and I was ‘there’ that day. As a 3,000 hour instrument Commercial pilot flying a V35B I was very interested in your take on this. I actually went out and flew this approach and went missed to see how my track would compare. Thanks for doing this one.
Holy cow, I would think that people would brush up on their instrument reliability even if not needed for that time that you do need it. I never had any trouble with anything like this. When I have problems with things I venture into I stop going there. I do what I'm cut out to do. Upset recovery training is something else as well.
@@Milkmans_Son I'm talking about activities, interest adventure. I don't do things I struggle to do. You know when you're not cut out for something and you know when you are.
As a new IFR pilot i really appreciate this material. It hits the mark for me. As a pilot who flew around the country VFR for a long time, trying to transition to IFR when and where can be hard to call. Thanks for sharing your deep knowledge. It helps me plan better and keeps my family and me safer.
"Great balls of fire!" As the immortal Grandpaw Pettibone of the U.S. Navy Approach Magazine used to say. I have flown RNAV 13 KCUB in IMC. There are tall buildings just to the North of the final approach course. What was this dude thinking? I flew RNAV 31 KCUB today! When I took off from Stanly County, NC it looked like it might be a LIFR approach but by the time I got there all the low scud was gone and I was looking at VMC only. But I continued on my IFR plan and requested RNAV 31 anyway. I canceled my IFR only when I had turned onto the final approach course and I had the airport in sight. What was this dude thinking? My daughter, son-in-law, and grandson live uncomfortably close to where that plane crashed. Fortunately they just moved there and this crash occurred years ago. But what was this dude thinking? Innocent people live in that neighborhood! Why would someone who has flown the same airplane for 14 years and is instrument rated try this deadly stunt? I just don't understand it.
Great vid Scott. My acronym, UNFIT is a brutal description of Uncontrolled Flight into Terrain that claimed the lives of two local acquaintances in an A-36 in Ohio several years ago. While my brutal assessment that it was a suicide/murder seems extreme, it was suicide for the pilot to fly into severe wx, and it murdered an innocent passenger. There is always a possibility that the pilot may have had a medical event. Regardless, he pushed the wx. That is something that I would have never suspected that he would have done given his conservative attitude towards flying in bad weather. We will never know. I hold myself to the reality of my own stupid mistakes, lest I make them again.
Excellent analysis, and sharing your own experience. If more GA pilots would pay attention to your videos they would be adding ground school experience to their flightbag, and might avoid pulling nothing out of their luck bag.
Every video is a winner. Thanks, Scott. I have less than 200 hours and less than 20 hours of instrument training with a goal of a level 180 to get the hell out of the muck. I haven't needed my meager instrument training but I have experience spacial disorientation. Everyone has. Who hasn't spun around until they are dizzy? Imagine that happening while your life depends on you staying in control of an aircraft, all while trying to focus on a 3 inch fake window and you're getting bounced around. I don't ever want that real life experience. A really useful piece of advice I got was 'Don't Move Your Head'. Keep your head steady and scan with your eyes. I practice every time I drive or ride my motorcycle. It helps. You don't have to be flying for your world to get wonky.
Actually that is the opposite to good practice for viewing the outside world! My pilot training emphasized that you move your head to scan the sky, because when you move only your eyes, your brain shuts off the image during the eye motion - or else you would see a blur as they move. Thus if you scan the sky (or road when driving motorcycle) with only eye motion, you can miss important cues while your brain shuts off the input. Try it, move only eyes and see if there is a blur, then move head with eyes straight ahead over the same region - you see a blur with head motion because your brain keeps the eye input on during the motion! Now if you are experiencing vertigo or disorientation, perhaps not moving the head is a good idea which may exacerbate the inner ear problem. But please do NOT scan with only eyes when flying VFR or riding a motorcycle or car!
@@dboss7239 Whatever works for you. Maybe my brain is different from your instructors because for me, motion blur when moving eyes alone or eyes with head, is identical but spacial disorientation is a greater danger when moving the head. Since blur is not clarity, my scan technique is to stop at several 'stations' during the sweep and 'fix' the background. A moving eye (whether in concert with the head or not) has difficulty discerning a moving object from a moving background. If your eye is moving, one's brain sees everything as moving.
Great job-agree 100%. I would add that Mother Nature doesn’t give too hoots of total time, type ratings, time-in-type, certification, round-the-world accomplishments etc. Disrespect her and she will show u who’s boss!
Seems less a "spatial disorientation" accident and more of a "poor decision making" accident. Not sure what was so vital about getting in through the fog that day, but however important is seemed it sure wasn't. As for planning, my own rule is this: never let the airplane arrive at a place your brain has not already considered and made a plan for. So far, so good.
So Scott if IMC is likely in your planned flight path then is imperative to fly IFR the whole path because it may take too long for the human body to transition from VFR to IFR conditions? I had not ever considered that but your real world experience proves it. I wonder if that is what bit Captain Dean Paul Martin in 1987.. So even if you are qualified and are proficient IMC can still be a challenge.
One time going in to boise those folks must have been asleep. Did not tell me about the cell sitting at twenty mile final. Should be descending twelve hundred feet for the configuration. I'm going up thirty five hundred feet per minute. I called an emergency and they said oops. You should fly out in five miles. I guess that's better than the reverse.
Not a pilot -- serious question: Why wouldn't you always include instruments in your scan and keep a reference in your head comparing the instruments to the view out the windscreen in case you have to transition suddenly? Too much total workload? Doesn't really work that way?
It's amazing to me the mistakes that good pilots make. I guess we're all just human. Transitioning, in and out of the clouds, is disorienting. The other thing is, do not mess with ice, or thunderstorms. Don't push a bad situation.
"My nickel on the grass" At 200' cloud base at the airport; at what height do they close the runaway? If you heard that on AWAS and PIREP it would be an GPS ILS precision approach. Hopefully see the vasi's as you decend right down the middle of the runway. Takeaways Possible icing, air moisture content with cold temperatures. Ten feet separation minimum for wingmen. I liked your story of 'Redflag' training over area 51!!! 🌏🇭🇲
I have experienced flying with highly qualified experienced professional pilots in imc. I found out they will invent their own procedures and abandon published norms to expedite a flight.
@@FlyWirescottperdue true but they were professional in the context they were part 135 and part 121 certified and professional as required by faa. Kobe Bryant pilot was a professional
@@FlyWirescottperdue Exactly - and this is a good thing. There are far too many pilots that need to take the time to watch videos like this so that they are not the subject of videos like this in the future. Keep up the great work, Scott. I really enjoy your delivery and style - very effective for me, and to be honest, I am exactly your target market. A somewhat inexperienced but naturally "cocky" pilot. I am trying to learn from other pilots' mistakes. Most of the pilots discussed in your videos have much more experience than I do - and if they can make these mistakes, so can I. Thanks for helping knock the cockiness out of me!
Does anyone really believe those FPMs? Those variations - repeated variations - and high value changes - even reversals - make that multiple reversals ... the accuracy of the record seems difficult to believe.
This guy didn't want to do the right thing cutting corner to salvage a really vfr aproch...I'm sure field was below minimums anyway; should have know it from get go.shirtcuts never work in these scenarios...just like scud running will catch up on anyone....with all that experience, should have known better...make believe never works old guys...
Another Winner Winner sadly they missed the Turkey Dinner..IMO if you haven't been exposed grab a qualified Instructor and Experience it FOR REAL! Nothing you read or watch on video compares.. Ask me how I know...
He did it because he got away with it before and developed a bad habit I suspect. He was in a disoriented attitude, climbed at the same time does seem logical and time to the stall probable was seconds.
When things went sideways, "Power back to idle to reduce rate of descent. Roll wings level using Artificial horizon; pull HARD; hope;; trim as speed bleeds off as you rocket skyward."
The CRUX of the problem is that in a spiral dive pulling back on the stick only tightens the turn and increases speed. It is terrifying! You MUST not give up. Happened to me. Changed my life being seconds from death and no one to help. I did not know how brave I was. CAVU skies, all!
Vertigo in weather can happen to anyone. While flying in a RF-4 with a SR-71 high time frontseater, we were weather recalled and first to launch, in IFR soup, so we were last to land. Stacked up in holding pattern for ILS landing, while on the racetrack, the pilot gave me the aircraft, because he had vertigo so bad that his lunch was now in the cockpit. Navs are not supposed to land aircraft.
Good thing you were on top of things, and you must have been, because it must suck having the pilot do that to his nav/back seater in the soup like that.
I knew a COAST Guard Rescue Helicopter pilot who told me one time after being in the weather his co-pilot at some point told him he was glad he knew where he was because he was lost!
The pilot told him man if you EVER think you're lost you'd better speak up right now because what if something happens to the pilot, then everyone on board is lost because you were too embarrassed to speak up!
"Lost the ball" Get-there-itis got him.
After I got my instrument ticket, I filed IFR for pretty much every cross country flight I made no matter the weather. The main reason was that it kept me proficient flying in the system, kept my communication skills honed and, should unforecast weather arise, I didn’t need to worry about picking up a clearance on the fly. All I had to do was study the approach and prepare to fly it. Many thought I was crazy filing IFR on a severe clear day, but I just found it easy to do so and I felt it was an easy risk reduction thing to do.
Ditto. Agree 100%
I agree and I’m with you 100% and that’s exactly what I do for the most part as well. In some respects filing an IFR flight plan is just as easy as VFR flight following if not easier because you’re always under radar control and air traffic control pretty much cleared the way for you so in a sense it’s less work. I just recently did a cross country flight from Kansas to Florida and the weather closed in which I already knew but I was under an IFR flight plan and ended up doing an ILS into Orlando Airport.
@@gmccord1970 I agree that if often is easier. I have a heck of a time figuring out all of the controlled airspace and MOAs and RAs and such for a VFR cross country. IFR you are always talking to controllers who know the area they are controlling and the airspace and which areas are active or not.
Right! Play in the system everyday if you can...cuts way down on the anxiety when weather's tight and in class B space big airports...one's sees what's going on and is ready for any changes for most part keeping up with the current program insight!!
You are a true gift to aviation education. No other way to put it. I'd just about guarantee that the discussion on saturation during rapid transition from VFR to IMC will save a few lives.
Excellent!
After I got my instrument rating, I was never tempted to not file IFR if the weather was even a bit "iffy", much less for weather like this. So to me, this very experienced pilot forgot why he had an instrument rating in the first place. Re why he forgot (or whatever you want to call it), I have no idea and I assume we'll never know. is there a moral here? Of course. It's use the instrument rating you have.
"Luck bag" - great phrase! In sailing, especially in bad weather, some will use the analogy of a "bank" - every time one does maintenance, preparation or additional service, you put one "coin" the bank. Every time you run into some unexpected negative situation you take one coin (or more) out of the bank. When your bank runs dry, bad things happen! LOVE your vids! Now age 74... grew up in a Stinson 108 Station Wagon and Piper Tri-Pacer / now just a passenger in my son's P28R Arrow. Thanks loads!!!
Wishful thinking leads to depending on luck for intended results. I would say fly, work, and live intentionally and leave wishful thinking to the bold pilots. thanks Scott, great video.
I just love your immortal approach to aviating. Thank you scott.
Great presentation, as always. My introduction to spacial disorientation came by flying over Lake Michigan on a cloudless and moonless night. Once the lights of the shoreline were gone from my view, my instructor had me close my eyes for a few moments while he made a couple of minor attitude changes, then had me take back the aircraft. Spot-on, the inner ear to brain connection is strong. I learned that night that is imperative to train oneself to focus on, and believe the instruments.
..it IS a mental game-CHANGER.
Excellent story Rev, thanks for sharing!
This is a really informative presentation, Scott. Bravo Zulu.
As always, great breakdown of the events . . .Your a great communicator Scott
I appreciate that!
"not many DME arc approaches" an airport near me, KWVI, still has one. My IFR instructor makes me fly it for practice, but I would never fly it in actual.
Scary stuff. I just got my instrument rating and remember when I did my first circle to land. My instructor basically did a lot of the call outs and when it was time to go missed, it was a climbing turn to the left. I could feel that my senses were all out of whack. I said I don’t feel like I have control of the aircraft. Lucky for me everything was fine but I learned just how disorienting you can get when flying by instruments.
There is a saying in several fields that proficiency leads to complacency, and that's when accident rates climb to the same heights as newbies. Having lots of hours and experience can be a mixed blessing.
The best video you have ever done and among the best aviation safety vids ever. Thank you Scott
Fantastic video!! Scott you are a great teacher. Thank you Sir. 🇺🇸🍀🇺🇸
Thanks Scott for taking the time to pay it forward. All pilots should tell their story’s of mistakes made. Instead we tend to cover them up and talk about how how great a pilot we are. When I see I pilot with your experience talk about mistakes and experience it’s a great example of what all pilots need to do. In turn that helps us all be better! Thanks again Scott!😀🇺🇸
Absolutely, thanks for watching!
@@FlyWirescottperdue I believe your videos will and have saved lives, my friend. Still hoping to fly with you in the near future!😀🇺🇸
Man Scott, the first video of yours that I watched was your explanation of "The Day the Music Died", and I've been coming back ever since. Not that many people are as good at breaking concepts down into manageable chunks that support a clear conclusion as you are. Thanks for getting these videos out there for us to learn from.
Fantastic video Scott.
Nystagmus is a real risk and might make it almost impossible to see…anything. I wonder how many of these tragedies are mainly the result of this one factor, rather than the ‘illusions’ that are usually blamed. As a physician I have wondered about this and your video brings me closer to a conviction that this is an underestimated cause. It is involuntary, and impossible to control, or correct through any action we can take. It is likely only preventable through the ‘slow and deliberate’ transition you discussed so brilliantly.
BTW My friend and I (Basie and me Magnus); met you next to our campsite in the vintage Bonanza camp area at Oshkosh).
Thanks! Maybe we'll meet again at Oshkosh!
Well done, Scott. The detailed explanation from your own experience, particularly the inability to settle your focus on the tiny world offered by the panel, is something that I think anyone getting an instrument rating should become familiar with--to understand how a grasp of the device we have been trained to fly to can be beyond our capabilities in the wrong circumstances.
On the controller side, especially when there was more GA training being done than there is now, it was often just a matter of time until a situation arose where it was necessary for a controller or a colleague to talk a pilot without an instrument rating down through an overcast that he/she had gotten trapped on top of. The focus was always on keeping everything as simple as possible, clearly communicating a straightforward plan, wings-level, trimmed to a comfortable speed with little or no input needed to manage pitch, eliminating aileron inputs by only gentle use of the rudder pedals to maintain the wings-level, etc. Over the course of my career, I never heard of that technique failing for anyone, though perhaps it has somewhere at some point. Even Part 121 with an experienced crew, though, keeping the totality of factors in favor of a safe outcome is sort of the converse of the classic "accident-chain" concept where factor after factor has added up to a tragic outcome when no one factor would have caused it. Deliberately being able to stay ahead of the airplane and build a chain of positive factors in the opposite direction can be crucial in being prepared with enough spare mental resources to overcome the things that can and sometimes will go wrong.
Great job Gunny. I very much agree that it is the transition that will kill you. I said that many times to pipeline pilots who would transition from 200' AGL VFR (with waiver) to IMC to escape getting into unintentional IMC. And I was very intentional that I was going to remain VFR and turn back down the pipeline right of way rather than attempt transition to IMC. The right of way, flown every week, was a known situation and staying just over the pipeline gave me knowledge of a non towered nor obstructed flight path. Yes, weather can deteriorate behind us as well. Landing on the pipeline right of way was my final go to out that I would gladly accept before climbing into IMC with absolutely no idea of the terrain and obstruction clearance between 200' AGL and unknown MOCA. Add that to the difficulty of rapid transition, as you pointed out. On a 3500 mile loop in the midwest, working up close to the weather and then laying up was a descently safe strategy, but getting down VFR was the only safe way to do that. I really didn't understand our instrument rating requirement and felt that it got good instrument pilots into trouble.
This is really helpful to an IFR student such as myself. Thanks for breaking it down to digestible pieces
Great Video Scott! thx for all of your hard work and your time to help others! Thx!
Thanks for your videos, it´s a lot of effort. Keep up the good work!
Fly intentionally, good point. Got into IMC the other day, trying to return home to our VFR field, forecast was CAVOK. Coming closer, a nearby airport was reporting 1200ft ceilings and local conditions were 1000-5. Not particularly bad, but we were a few miles away at 700-5, VFR, just slightly above what´s legally possible. I had briefed my student (it was a transition, we´re both IR) what to do in case of an inadvertent IMC encounter. Still, when everything went white all of a sudden because of an unintentional climb while following a highway I was surprised for a second and could not believe it. My impulsive reaction would have been to push down the nose to regain VMC (not a good idea so close to the ground), but I stuck to that briefing, took control and climbed, against regulations. Just 30sec later we were VMC and had all the time in the world to come up with a better plan. One more thing in my experience bag...
I wonder if approach was even loaded/configured and briefed. The track looks like direct to airport. Missed is also straight out and not a turn as the pilot did. So it looks like an unstabilized VFR in IMC all around.
And the worlds best pilot in the A-1 said and I quote, " carry a little extra on final for the family -- you will never regret it if you need it".
Sounds like a great way to overshoot one's touchdown point, float, and set up for an overrun. Be careful with that.
@@ericsd55 Maybe you should relay that to the worlds best test pilot. Hint Hint: 'Little" DMMS! The B29 calls for 30 MPH over stall for landing. Hanging on stall is for STOL.
I'm not a pilot..but I grasp the concept of spatial-disorientation, and loss of control by VFR flight into IMC. Where I am at a COMPLETE loss..is with the aviation-related electronic wizardry, nowadays; how can these seemingly senseless tragedies STILL be fairly commonplace (VFR into IMC crashes) in 2022???
When younger, I was crossing the Alleghenies to the West flying VFR. The ceiling kept coming down and while I was able to see the ground the mountains were covered with antennas that you couldn’t see. I was IFR rated but I was not in anyway current. I knew I was in trouble and made the decision to turn back while in the clouds. It worked out but I was truly shaken. Having survived I returned home to get current so I would no longer have to scud run. The other lesson I learned is that it is not worth dying just to avoid violating FARS. One is better off to break the rules and own up to a violation than die trying to be legal. The Bonanza pilot should have performed a missed approach maintaining control until he could safely make a turn to return to VMC. Compounding mistakes kills.
Well said!
Great video Scott.
I recently had a spacial D (night flight) experience, your description is spot on. I returned home that evening with the sobering reality of how quick it can happen, it was a few seconds of terror I’ll never forget.
One of your very best videos, Scott. The way you tied your personal experience in with the concepts that you were presenting definitely made for a "this could happen to me" impression. Thank you for your wisdom and for sharing.
I love the way you explain things so that pretty much everyone can understand. You most definitely spend a lot of time putting these together and I really do appreciate it Scott thanks 👍
Great teaching video and analysis, Scott. A pilot has got to know their limitations. That's not an easy thing to deal with.
Wow Scott, fantastic presentation, it was captivating and you do a great job of driving home the safety factors.
Id want you for my flight instructor!!
Your F-4 experience in close formation in IMC definitely gives you an amazing 1st person perspective on just how intense and scary that must have been for the pilot who was the victim in this crash.
When even a skilled professional military fighter pilot, who gets tons of training and real world experience thrown at them at no expense and it can still be so tricky going into imc like that and having to instantly react and react correctly that it makes me think that the average GA pilot, even those with IFR ratings are more likely to have bigger gaps in their level of training and practice staying current that they would be very lucky to survive such a situation.
It must have been incredibly tense to you at the time because even after all these years since it happened to you I can see you almost visibly reliving those moments! Those ticking seconds must have felt like hours to you, assuming since I'm not a pilot, that IFR flight requires a great degree of concentration on timing, speed, angles, rates of turn etc and so many other things all at the same time at speeds and altitudes that will kill you in seconds, it must have been extreme pressure!
I'm glad it turned out do well for you, and you're doing an amazing job of trying to improve pilots chances of surviving a similar situation by educating and respectfully presenting the information in a way that is not just blaming the pilot, you were very clear this was a very experienced qualified pilot in a plane he has flown around the world, and if it can happen to him it can happen to anyone!!!
Were I a pilot, I think all Mt flying would be blue Skies vfr flying and be content that by doing that I at least won't find myself in that situation, hopefully!
Thanks Don!
Thanks!
Thanks for watching, Shahid!
On a check ride VFR during initial climb, the HSI failed and began to slowly presess showing a progressively increasing angle of attack. I knew what was going on because the other instruments displayed that we were climbing at a steady 90 kts, rate of climb ect. The check pilot however showed confusion and cried out,,"what are you doing!" I explained the situation, and he calmed down, & I placed a "post it" over the offending HSI...needless to say I passed the check ride, but he did later help with an intervertant erroneous lack of needed back pressure during end portion of roll out and taxi. I never fly purely VFR, but always confirm or cross check with instruments
This was an awesome video.
A good friend of mine lost his life, along with two of his friends, on a cross country night flight in an A36. He was piloting the plane on a filed flight plan. He did not have weather radar and the year was 2004. He was IFR rated. But he flew into a thunderstorm, lost control of the airplane, and spun into the ground (as witnessed). The ATC at Kansas City talked to him 11 minutes before the crash but made no mention of a storm ahead (as per the recording tape). Earlier, an ATC controller to the north had vectored him further south than originally planned for weather reasons. But this controller did not pass this information on to K.C. A court case ensued but I do not know the outcome. I do know that lawyers for the FAA contended that the crash was caused by his loss of control of the airplane.. They further denied any weather reporting responsibility.
Very clear and fact-packed descriptions of flying grounded in your experience that even this landlubber can follow. Thanks for your work!
THE definition of erratic to be sure..unbelievable numbers. Would agree with you as to the “see it NOW, don’t see it” runway presumption. It’s baffling & will be interesting (I THINK) to see the NTSB report..thanks Scott.
Your experience in rapid transition from VFR conditions to IMC is the reason why I think that eventually GA aircraft, especially single-pilot piston aircraft should have available some sort of synthetic vision on a head mounted display. Nothing fancy, just something like Google Glass.
It should overlay cues to the surroundings and airspace restrictions in clear symbology, instead of being an instrument it would be more an abstraction of the flyable airspace and the aircraft's relative position to this airspace.
There have been several HUD attempts in the past few years. The best one I’ve seen is the one by MyGoFlight. Unfortunately, the owner/developer was killed last year in a Cirrus crash.
@@FlyWirescottperdue oh dear! What horrible news!
Scott - I am so glad you did this one. You may recall when you were in Illinois, for the Utube awards gathering, my son Ethan and I met you for the first time, I gave you and Juan Brown information on this crash. It happened in my home town and I was ‘there’ that day. As a 3,000 hour instrument Commercial pilot flying a V35B I was very interested in your take on this. I actually went out and flew this approach and went missed to see how my track would compare. Thanks for doing this one.
Thanks Robert, I remember meeting you. It took me awhile to examine this accident thoroughly. Too many accidents.
Scott, a lot of wise words there, and so very true.
"Reality is an acquired taste".
- Matthew Perry, speaking about addiction.
Holy cow, I would think that people would brush up on their instrument reliability even if not needed for that time that you do need it. I never had any trouble with anything like this. When I have problems with things I venture into I stop going there. I do what I'm cut out to do. Upset recovery training is something else as well.
You stop after you have already ventured in? Do tell.
@@Milkmans_Son I'm talking about activities, interest adventure. I don't do things I struggle to do. You know when you're not cut out for something and you know when you are.
The best way to stay out of trouble is not to get into it in the first place.
As a new IFR pilot i really appreciate this material. It hits the mark for me. As a pilot who flew around the country VFR for a long time, trying to transition to IFR when and where can be hard to call. Thanks for sharing your deep knowledge. It helps me plan better and keeps my family and me safer.
"Great balls of fire!" As the immortal Grandpaw Pettibone of the U.S. Navy Approach Magazine used to say.
I have flown RNAV 13 KCUB in IMC. There are tall buildings just to the North of the final approach course. What was this dude thinking?
I flew RNAV 31 KCUB today! When I took off from Stanly County, NC it looked like it might be a LIFR approach but by the time I got there all the low scud was gone and I was looking at VMC only. But I continued on my IFR plan and requested RNAV 31 anyway. I canceled my IFR only when I had turned onto the final approach course and I had the airport in sight. What was this dude thinking?
My daughter, son-in-law, and grandson live uncomfortably close to where that plane crashed. Fortunately they just moved there and this crash occurred years ago. But what was this dude thinking? Innocent people live in that neighborhood!
Why would someone who has flown the same airplane for 14 years and is instrument rated try this deadly stunt? I just don't understand it.
I must confess I don’t understand the why either.
On another note, GradPaw Pettibone is one of my inspirations for this channel!
Another excellent discussion Scott 👍
Great vid Scott. My acronym, UNFIT is a brutal description of Uncontrolled Flight into Terrain that claimed the lives of two local acquaintances in an A-36 in Ohio several years ago. While my brutal assessment that it was a suicide/murder seems extreme, it was suicide for the pilot to fly into severe wx, and it murdered an innocent passenger. There is always a possibility that the pilot may have had a medical event. Regardless, he pushed the wx. That is something that I would have never suspected that he would have done given his conservative attitude towards flying in bad weather. We will never know. I hold myself to the reality of my own stupid mistakes, lest I make them again.
Great to hear your first hand experience.
Excellent analysis, and sharing your own experience. If more GA pilots would pay attention to your videos they would be adding ground school experience to their flightbag, and might avoid pulling nothing out of their luck bag.
I really enjoy your explanations, you do a great job
Thank you very much!
Every video is a winner. Thanks, Scott.
I have less than 200 hours and less than 20 hours of instrument training with a goal of a level 180 to get the hell out of the muck. I haven't needed my meager instrument training but I have experience spacial disorientation. Everyone has. Who hasn't spun around until they are dizzy? Imagine that happening while your life depends on you staying in control of an aircraft, all while trying to focus on a 3 inch fake window and you're getting bounced around. I don't ever want that real life experience.
A really useful piece of advice I got was 'Don't Move Your Head'. Keep your head steady and scan with your eyes. I practice every time I drive or ride my motorcycle. It helps. You don't have to be flying for your world to get wonky.
Actually that is the opposite to good practice for viewing the outside world! My pilot training emphasized that you move your head to scan the sky, because when you move only your eyes, your brain shuts off the image during the eye motion - or else you would see a blur as they move. Thus if you scan the sky (or road when driving motorcycle) with only eye motion, you can miss important cues while your brain shuts off the input. Try it, move only eyes and see if there is a blur, then move head with eyes straight ahead over the same region - you see a blur with head motion because your brain keeps the eye input on during the motion! Now if you are experiencing vertigo or disorientation, perhaps not moving the head is a good idea which may exacerbate the inner ear problem. But please do NOT scan with only eyes when flying VFR or riding a motorcycle or car!
@@dboss7239 Whatever works for you. Maybe my brain is different from your instructors because for me, motion blur when moving eyes alone or eyes with head, is identical but spacial disorientation is a greater danger when moving the head. Since blur is not clarity, my scan technique is to stop at several 'stations' during the sweep and 'fix' the background. A moving eye (whether in concert with the head or not) has difficulty discerning a moving object from a moving background. If your eye is moving, one's brain sees everything as moving.
Great job-agree 100%.
I would add that Mother Nature doesn’t give too hoots of total time, type ratings, time-in-type, certification, round-the-world accomplishments etc. Disrespect her and she will show u who’s boss!
Thanks for this. It’s a wonderful video
I wanted to tell you that your presentation was ....
your ideas were...
I've been following you....
Shucks, the comments said it already.
Even outside flying a good maxim to apply in most situations is rules are created by learning the hard way.
Seems less a "spatial disorientation" accident and more of a "poor decision making" accident. Not sure what was so vital about getting in through the fog that day, but however important is seemed it sure wasn't. As for planning, my own rule is this: never let the airplane arrive at a place your brain has not already considered and made a plan for.
So far, so good.
It is totally true that ADM got him in the position, but Spatial D is what killed him.
So Scott if IMC is likely in your planned flight path then is imperative to fly IFR the whole path because it may take too long for the human body to transition from VFR to IFR conditions? I had not ever considered that but your real world experience proves it. I wonder if that is what bit Captain Dean Paul Martin in 1987.. So even if you are qualified and are proficient IMC can still be a challenge.
James, I liked your comment because you ave summed up the essential core of the issue.
One time going in to boise those folks must have been asleep. Did not tell me about the cell sitting at twenty mile final. Should be descending twelve hundred feet for the configuration. I'm going up thirty five hundred feet per minute. I called an emergency and they said oops. You should fly out in five miles. I guess that's better than the reverse.
Not a pilot -- serious question: Why wouldn't you always include instruments in your scan and keep a reference in your head comparing the instruments to the view out the windscreen in case you have to transition suddenly? Too much total workload? Doesn't really work that way?
It's amazing to me the mistakes that good pilots make. I guess we're all just human. Transitioning, in and out of the clouds, is disorienting. The other thing is, do not mess with ice, or thunderstorms. Don't push a bad situation.
"My nickel on the grass"
At 200' cloud base at the airport; at what height do they close the runaway?
If you heard that on AWAS and PIREP it would be an GPS ILS precision approach. Hopefully see the vasi's as you decend right down the middle of the runway.
Takeaways
Possible icing, air moisture content with cold temperatures.
Ten feet separation minimum for wingmen.
I liked your story of 'Redflag' training over area 51!!!
🌏🇭🇲
😎
Full tanks and a working autopilot would solve a lot of problems.
Scott would you please run for President 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Will you be commenting any on the tragedy that struck the CAF?
Maybe.
how do you train for this spatial disorientation on the GROUND ?
Pretty hard to do... you've got to focus on the task and ignore the sensations. that comes from practice... in the air.
@@FlyWirescottperdue THANKS just want to not frap into ground during a practice, lol
I have experienced flying with highly qualified experienced professional pilots in imc. I found out they will invent their own procedures and abandon published norms to expedite a flight.
I wouldn’t call that professional.
@@FlyWirescottperdue true but they were professional in the context they were part 135 and part 121 certified and professional as required by faa. Kobe Bryant pilot was a professional
Was he in icing condition long enough for the icing to take effect on the plan? I would so no but not 100% on that.
Most likely not.
Does ice have to be on the wings to effect the plan?
1. My name is Toby.
2. I have down syndrome.
3. I like airplanes
4. I like frogs.
Hi Toby. I’m glad you like airplanes. Thanks for watching!
We seem to be losing more and more GA pilots??
Not really, the accident rate is fairly flat. The internet amplifies the accidents that are happening.
@@FlyWirescottperdue Exactly - and this is a good thing. There are far too many pilots that need to take the time to watch videos like this so that they are not the subject of videos like this in the future. Keep up the great work, Scott. I really enjoy your delivery and style - very effective for me, and to be honest, I am exactly your target market. A somewhat inexperienced but naturally "cocky" pilot. I am trying to learn from other pilots' mistakes. Most of the pilots discussed in your videos have much more experience than I do - and if they can make these mistakes, so can I. Thanks for helping knock the cockiness out of me!
This guy for some reason had his auto pilot off and got disoriented. Come on folks if you got it use it.
Does anyone really believe those FPMs? Those variations - repeated variations - and high value changes - even reversals - make that multiple reversals ... the accuracy of the record seems difficult to believe.
Bill, that Dara is ADSB data. Pretty accurate.
Cannot read board Scott
This guy didn't want to do the right thing cutting corner to salvage a really vfr aproch...I'm sure field was below minimums anyway; should have know it from get go.shirtcuts never work in these scenarios...just like scud running will catch up on anyone....with all that experience, should have known better...make believe never works old guys...
Another Winner Winner sadly they missed the Turkey Dinner..IMO if you haven't been exposed grab a qualified Instructor and Experience it FOR REAL! Nothing you read or watch on video compares.. Ask me how I know...
He did it because he got away with it before and developed a bad habit I suspect. He was in a disoriented attitude, climbed at the same time does seem logical and time to the stall probable was seconds.
I think you are probably right.
𝐩𝓻Ỗ𝓂Ø𝓈Ｍ 💦
Thanks!
Jim, thanks for watching and your support!